View Full Version : Sig 556R--Taking another look.
Mauser KAR98K
09-27-12, 18:10
I thought to continue on with the still open, second, 556R thread, but thought against as I am going to do what I consider to be a new review on the upgraded Sig 556R. I believe that the weapon should have a new look since Sig has put better parts, and in effect, re-engineered the weapon.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8322/8030798983_b4a09ba680_b.jpg
When Sig introduced the 556R, it was (is) a great concept but executed poorly. The lack of quality control, along with cheap parts made the rifle a suffering debut with problems ranging from ammo sensitivities, failure to ejects, parts wearing out quickly, and accepting certain magazines. Some of these problems were due to the aluminum magazine block that wore quickly when steel magazines were inserted (well duh!), a poor ejector and a tight chamber that made it difficult for steel case rounds to eject out (wolf). This was clearly indicated from our resident member of the Military Arms Channel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrObcZb_CCI
My reasons for purchasing this rifle was for my "need", well want, of a 7.62X39 weapon system. Considering I have three ARs, one being my primary weapon system, I wanted a 7.62x39 for its penetrating factor, a weapon that shoots one of the most prolific rounds in the world, and just to have it under the bed. My first direction was the tried and true AK-47. As there is a Drake equation for the AR their is most certainly one for the AK, but with more factors in the formula. WASR or Arsenal; working gun versus. fun-gun; what accessories to place on it.
My lessons with the AR/M4 platform is that simple is great: a red-dot optic/quality optic, vertical grip or AFG on a rifle length rail system, and a light and sling. This can be achieved with AK platform, but considering the money to get a good quality weapon, plus the money to get quality add-on parts was going to push the most prolific weapon system in the world to a very expensive one.
I know that Gabe Suarez isn't well liked here (understatement of the century), however I did get the Sig 556R from his company after reading through him and other sources of about the platform. In effect, I took a gamble. The pros I saw with the 556R over the AK was that it seemed to be a better platform to customize the weapon to what I was going to use it for. For me at the time, and still, it was logical (as Spoke would say).
The 556R came with the Sig's Red Dot optic (and you have to get your own damn battery), Gabe's AK DVD, manual and a bolt open indicator. Suarez International did swap out the Tapco mag with a real steel AK mag (no back rib. Mag on the right).
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8322/8030819271_bd65a59f94_b.jpg
Sig also includes their plastic rail system for their handguards. After cursing and blaspheming to get the bottom rail on, it does feel sturdy on the plastic handguard.
The Red Dot is great for a .22LR flattop, and does ok for the a 7.62x39 rifle. But still, why bother. I would have much preferred their iron sights over this wannbe Aimpoint Micro. Sig is selling to tacticool crowd over the working gunfighter folks like many of us here.
Overall from the outward appearance and also in some of the details, the Sig still needs some better quality parts to, I believe, justify the $1200 price range. Screws that need to be lock-tight; a sturdier stock, though this one is much better from what i hear; and better handguards. The good news is, there is a growing aftermarket for the 556/556R.
But have they fixed the problems?
To be on the level, I have only fired about 300 rounds. It is not much, but considering the reported problems that have happened very early upon coming out of the box, this should be a heads up.
I have had no problems what so ever running the "new" 556R. It so far has feed brass cased Yugo ammo and Brown bear. Wolf is yet to be ran through it (college has me tied up). I have been running Com-Block AK magazines through, plus the one that came with the rifle, and there have be no issues, with a just tiny wobbling that is akin to the AR platform.
I have also done a 50 round mag dump, and the new handguards to dissipate the heat rather well. Just don't touch the gas block system! The handguards do shift a little, but nothing to be concerned about overall. They do, no doubt, feel cheap in the hands.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8170/8030873625_154f550c04_b.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8178/8030878360_e94d1f8033_b.jpg
The ambi-safety/fire lever is very robust, but it honestly needs to be a little longer for the thumb to disengage it. I find myself at times flipping the it with my index finger on the right side. Overall it has a good snap to it, plus engaging at the 45 degree angle. The hand grip has actually rather comfortable, reminding me of my Benelli M2's.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8320/8030878601_74d51d6c19_b.jpg
The magazine block and latch are made of steel (over the aluminum) and even with the rounds I have put through and the countless reload drills I have ran through it (dry) their doesn't seem to be an overly worn pattern as seen from the older 556Rs.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8178/8030848108_b81d3e05b6_b.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8456/8030859473_afc0a8fb5a_b.jpg
The barrel is not chrome lined but nitride coated (spelling). It is better than nothing. However, the A2 birdcage flash suppressor does not do stellar job in keeping the muzzle from jumping all over the place. But with that, compared to the few AKs I have fired, the 556R has a very smooth recoil that can be compared to a M4 carbine.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8178/8030835140_ca1bf7e604_b.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8172/8030830140_757be5284a_b.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8452/8030844836_9521ca30fd_b.jpg
Overall, even with the short comings I have described, the 556R needs another look. The upgrades have put this weapon system on a more solid footing for anyone looking into getting an AK but doesn't want to spend the boat load of money to get the AK optic and rail ready. The Sig 556R comes this way out of the box. Granted that the manufacturing and materials aren't the quality that most good ARs are made of, but the rifle as it sits is rather sturdy, enough I will not have any misgivings to take it out to a fight. Just not a full campaign.
A Troy rail system is on the list for mine along with a powered optic, and a set of BUIS. Aside from the optic, it will still bring the rifle under of what a good AK plus accessories will bring.
http://troyind.com/rail-systemsaccessories/rails/sig-556-rails-rails
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8040/8030792661_b9c6cc9e10_b.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8452/8030804185_9684a56ab7_b.jpg
I am also looking to replace the bird cage either with a brake, compensator, or a combination of a brake and flash hider. That will make follow shots better for this platform.
I hope this review sheds better light on the Sig 556R, in particular the newer, upgraded version that Sig is pushing out now. The quality control still isn't there, IMHO, which at this point is keeping me from getting a full on 556 weapon. Even the newer ones are still experiencing some problems, even after going back to Sig, but from what I am seeing it is not the epidemic problem from when the weapon was, literally, pushed out. Example here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8txwWja1EbU&feature=related
Even with all this, I ave not had any serious or minor problems with mine, though with the low round count, and I do plan to shoot this 556R a lot more (after mid-terms). I believe the 556R needs a second look not only with shooters, but with the industry. The rifle has promise as long as Sig stops having cranial rectal inversions with their quality.
Is the top rail still screwed to a stamped receiver?
Is the red dot still "china airsoft" stuff?
Are there rear sling attachments on the receiver?
Are the gas port settings actually different sizes?
Are there iron sight options that aren't china garbage?
I really hate to crap on a well intentioned thread and NOBODY wanted the US SIG to be a decent, reliable rifle more than I did, but I still don't see them correctly any of the serious flaws. Putting nicer stocks on it really isn't enough.
The whole US receiver design needs to be scrapped.
Mauser KAR98K
09-27-12, 18:53
Is the red dot still "china airsoft" stuff? **** yeah! Made my point that I wasn't thrilled with the sight.
Are there rear sling attachments on the receiver? It is screwed into the receiver, but not machined into it.
Are the gas port settings actually different sizes? from what I can see, no. It looks like the gas ports are made to be switched if one gets stuffed with carbon. Probably be a nice idea for an aftermarket manufacture, if some one hasn't yet, to make one with different sized ports for suppressors.
Are there iron sight options that aren't china garbage? Yes. Midwest Industries makes a flip up front sight, and any of the rear flip sights can go with it.
As for the first question: I can't say (but it looks like it).
from what I can see, no. It looks like the gas ports are made to be switched if one gets stuffed with carbon. Probably be a nice idea for an aftermarket manufacture, if some one hasn't yet, to make one with different sized ports for suppressors.
That isn't how it's supposed to be. It isn't a "backup" port.
Yes. Midwest Industries makes a flip up front sight, and any of the rear flip sights can go with it.
Aurora makes them too. But I wasn't asking about aftermarket. That fact that the factory sights and red dots are airsoft crap speaks volumes about the companies approach to the US rifle in general.
Mauser KAR98K
09-27-12, 19:20
That isn't how it's supposed to be. It isn't a "backup" port.
Aurora makes them too. But I wasn't asking about aftermarket. That fact that the factory sights and red dots are airsoft crap speaks volumes about the companies approach to the US rifle in general.
I made no illusions of my indifference with Sig's quality approach and control, especially the sight. But looking at the rifle itself, it seems they are starting to figure this out. It's not perfect by no means, but it is better from what it had been to a large degree. More tweeks? Yep. Maybe they can step it up to a milled receiver. One can dream.
So how are the ports suppose to work? Judging from what I see there isn't much difference to the two gas ports, and what i remember of the manual, they said that if the rifle start experiencing cycle problems to switch the gas port. What i gathered, anyways.
What Sig is trying to do with the 556 and the 556R is to get a rifle on the market that accepts magazines that are readily available on the U.S. market. Ever seen the prices of actually Sig 55X mags? Not cheap, and with the ebb and flow of our government's ideas, importations are finicky at best these days. Sig, from what I see, is trying to keep a rifle on the market that has major components here in the US on hand if the government decides to stop all importations. Smart move.
The execution has not be smart. I surmise Sig is trying to court the lower AR/M4 market with a cool looking, gas piston system, trying to attract the Bushmaster and DPMS fudds out there. Needless to say the AR market is a little broader than that. I also surmise they are having to keep it cheap due to U.S. labor rates. Course for the money they have been making, it should not justify the lack of quality in a rather nice platform.
Littlelebowski
09-27-12, 19:45
Can you get your gas ports measured?
Mauser KAR98K
09-27-12, 19:49
yeah, it just won't be tonight or this weekend. About to go on vacation tonight.:cool:
I made no illusions of my indifference with Sig's quality approach and control, especially the sight. But looking at the rifle itself, it seems they are starting to figure this out. It's not perfect by no means, but it is better from what it had been to a large degree. More tweeks? Yep. Maybe they can step it up to a milled receiver. One can dream.
Actually the Swiss one is stamped, they just don't screw sight rails to it. Rail points are welded or on the new ones the rails are welded.
So how are the ports suppose to work? Judging from what I see there isn't much difference to the two gas ports, and what i remember of the manual, they said that if the rifle start experiencing cycle problems to switch the gas port. What i gathered, anyways.
One port is larger so if you are experiencing cycle problems due to some extreme, you can port more gas through the system. Typically on 556 models ports have been the same size or sometimes even reversed.
What Sig is trying to do with the 556 and the 556R is to get a rifle on the market that accepts magazines that are readily available on the U.S. market. Ever seen the prices of actually Sig 55X mags? Not cheap, and with the ebb and flow of our government's ideas, importations are finicky at best these days. Sig, from what I see, is trying to keep a rifle on the market that has major components here in the US on hand if the government decides to stop all importations. Smart move.
Actually yes, and you can find them for about as much as AUG mags. And cheaper mags is no reason to **** up a good rifle, if you can't afford the magazines for a SIG what makes you think you can afford a real SIG? Basically you have a DPMS version of a SIG. And I'd rather NOT have a SIG if it is going to be a DPMS quality knockoff. May as well just buy an AR.
The execution has not be smart. I surmise Sig is trying to court the lower AR/M4 market with a cool looking, gas piston system, trying to attract the Bushmaster and DPMS fudds out there. Needless to say the AR market is a little broader than that. I also surmise they are having to keep it cheap due to U.S. labor rates. Course for the money they have been making, it should not justify the lack of quality in a rather nice platform.
Steyr, Arsenal, FN and a lot of other people don't seem to have problems producing quality rifles domestically. Bottom line is SIG USA (and we really shouldn't call them SIG due to confusion with Swiss SIG) decided to make a DPMS quality rifle that looked like the famous 550 (as you correctly noted). And just because they tried to make some "tweeks and improvements" doesn't make them any more viable.
And again, I really don't want to crap on your post but I just wonder if anyone would give a DPMS a second look because they "tweeked" this or that. Trust me that I understand, everyone wants a 550 series, and here it finally is. It's a lot like US MP5 clones, everyone wants a MP5 and people will go through a LOT to try and make one viable, but at the end of the day it really isn't a MP5 and it isn't going to be.
jamesavery22
09-28-12, 08:32
Thanks for the write-up. I've enjoyed reading write-ups of the 556R. The more rifles on the market the better.
...anyone looking into getting an AK but doesn't want to spend the boat load of money to get the AK optic and rail ready...
Was confused by this. What else do you consider required for an AK to get an optic on it other than an Ultimak?
Doc. Holiday
09-28-12, 10:36
Originally Posted by Mauser KAR98K
...anyone looking into getting an AK but doesn't want to spend the boat load of money to get the AK optic and rail ready...
To be honest, I think it would be about the same if not a tad cheaper to buy a good AK, throw an Ultimak or a MI rail on it, and grab a better optic. Those jingo optics are going to be toast after a hundred rounds or so anyway. I really don't find the optic to be that great of a value/selling point.
Thanks for the review though.
Nice review...appreciate the info and time.
As two others have pointed out...your price metric is a bit off.
Atlantic Firearms has an Arsenal SGL 21-94 for $1169
Onesource has a "Gabe Special 556R" for $1199
The "Gabe Special" includes by your own admission a garbage RDS...and no BUIS...buy some for $195
The Arsenal has AK iron sights...and an optic rail...buy an RS products adapter for $139 from your favorite on-line source...and what do you have?
$1308 (Arsenal with rail) vs $1394 (556R with sights)
Looks like the Sig costs more...with all the aforementioned QC issues...
Just my initial thoughts...but really...I enjoyed your review, and hopefully Sig USA is getting the QC issues behind them.
dennisuello
09-28-12, 14:46
your bottom rail is backwards
Doc. Holiday
09-28-12, 14:50
your bottom rail is backwards
Haha, I kept wondering why it looked a little funny! Nice find!
Nice review...appreciate the info and time.
As two others have pointed out...your price metric is a bit off.
Atlantic Firearms has an Arsenal SGL 21-94 for $1169
Onesource has a "Gabe Special 556R" for $1199
The "Gabe Special" includes by your own admission a garbage RDS...and no BUIS...buy some for $195
The Arsenal has AK iron sights...and an optic rail...buy an RS products adapter for $139 from your favorite on-line source...and what do you have?
$1308 (Arsenal with rail) vs $1394 (556R with sights)
Looks like the Sig costs more...with all the aforementioned QC issues...
Just my initial thoughts...but really...I enjoyed your review, and hopefully Sig USA is getting the QC issues behind them.
The problem I found at least, is if you want to run magnified optics on an ak and still have any form of a cheek weld. The sig would probably help with that issue. Also, I have heard of better accuracy out of the sig. So if someone was looking for more of a DMR AK, I can see why someone would opt for a sig. After all, arsenal AKs are not great aks anyway. They are good, but I have seen plenty that had issues as well.
After all, arsenal AKs are not great aks anyway. They are good, but I have seen plenty that had issues as well.
QUE?!?
que for what. My point is arsenals ar ok guns. But in the end, they are very basic. I guess I might compare them to a 6920. Good quality, but very basic. If that is what you want that is fine. My point is I have had better ak's then arsenals, and they cost much more. THey also cost more then the sig.
Not trying to start a pissing war. I just left the ak world after several years of running the exclusively. Aks left in a stock configuration are great, but once you start trying to accomplish more from them, like adding magnified optics, I always found my self spending $$$ and being left unsatisfied. I never found any optic set up that I loved.
que for what. My point is arsenals ar ok guns. But in the end, they are very basic. I guess I might compare them to a 6920. Good quality, but very basic. If that is what you want that is fine. My point is I have had better ak's then arsenals, and they cost much more. THey also cost more then the sig.
Not trying to start a pissing war. I just left the ak world after several years of running the exclusively. Aks left in a stock configuration are great, but once you start trying to accomplish more from them, like adding magnified optics, I always found my self spending $$$ and being left unsatisfied. I never found any optic set up that I loved.
Which Ak's would you be referring to?
All of the ak's that I considered my best ones were all done custom by Rifle dynamics. What does it matter though? My point is that there are better ak's then an arsenal, and they cost more. So comparing prices to an arsenal may not be a fair comparison.
All of the ak's that I considered my best ones were all done custom by Rifle dynamics. What does it matter though? My point is that there are better ak's then an arsenal, and they cost more. So comparing prices to an arsenal may not be a fair comparison.
Just because you paid more for something doesn't make it better. The Arsenals are great AK's. RD AK's are nice too, but better? Hard to say. They offer more permutations and custom options, that's true. But saying flatly that they are better without any kind of proof or data undermines your credibility.
Just because you paid more for something doesn't make it better. The Arsenals are great AK's. RD AK's are nice too, but better? Hard to say. They offer more permutations and custom options, that's true. But saying flatly that they are better without any kind of proof or data undermines your credibility.
Well, first off, I have seen arsenals with issues, that being said, that can happen with any company. Let me reword this, since we are all getting stuck on something I said instead of focusing on the actual topic. There are Ak's that offer more features. These features are more similar to what you would find on the sig. IE rails above the receiver for mounting optics, better triggers and things like that, and they cost more then arsenals. Therefore comparing and arsenal to the sig may not be a fair comparison.
not to steer this off topic to much, but can you tell me where or post a link as to where you bought your lower forearm rail?
I need a couple.
Thx,
R
p.s. it's installed backwards....fyi.
You put the bottom rail on the hand guard backwards.:D
I almost bought one of these when they first came out. I couldn't get over how bad the mags wobbled in the magwell. It didn't feel quality.
Hopefully they worked out the problems. Post back when you have a couple 1000 rounds down range. These rifles still make me curious.
Interesting.
I REALLY wanted the Sig556 to be a 550 series rifle. Very badly.
It wasn't.
Then years pass by and I hear they are going to make one in 7.62x39 and will use AK mags.
First release, huge let down.
Now they are supposedly fixed. I hope they do get it together. I would love to have an AK made by Rolex.
But I won't hold my breath.
And Gabe hopping on board with them only makes me more cautious. It appears he has jumped on the Sig Bandwagon with both feet. 556R, 516, pistols, the whole bit.
All the same, thanks for the thread and please keep it updated as you get some rounds through the gun.
There are Ak's that offer more features.
That is very, very different.
But honestly any "feature" that can be put on your AK, can be put on an Arsenal.
That is very, very different.
But honestly any "feature" that can be put on your AK, can be put on an Arsenal.
Yes they can, and they all cost money. It has also been my experience that buying a rifle with the features you want will be cheaper then adding them on later. I never once bashed arsenals. The entire time I was saying they were good aks.
Averageman
09-29-12, 12:59
I've owned the Sig Swat Patrol and it was put together so poorly that it was dangerous.
The barrel to reciever fit was so far off it wouldn't stay on paper at 25 yards. The rail and every machine screw backed out the first time I took it to the range. It took a good ten calls to Sig to get the rifle back to them and then another 4 months to get a replacement.
The Sig556R that replaced the Swat Patrol would also throw every screw that it was assembled with and then the magazine well which was already oversized would emit small pieces of aluminium every time a steel magazine was used.
Nope you can keep them, I traded mine off and wont buy another Sig product.
Yes they can, and they all cost money. It has also been my experience that buying a rifle with the features you want will be cheaper then adding them on later. I never once bashed arsenals. The entire time I was saying they were good aks.
Not to make you feel like you have a target on your back in this thread, but this comment doesn't make sense to me either. You said that Arsenals weren't great, and that RD AK's were better. Why? Because of a feature set that can be added to an Arsenal. That's like saying Nissans are better cars than Hondas because they come with shinier aftermarket wheels, or cooler seat covers. Stuff that can be added later. It hasn't got anything to do with the quality of the gun / car. You understand? Again, not trying to be a jerk but it appears that you are confusing features that can be added with build quality. It's probably just your wording, I'm guessing. Anyway, enjoy your RD guns. By all accounts I've read they're excellent.
I never once bashed arsenals. The entire time I was saying they were good aks.
Well actually you did...
"After all, arsenal AKs are not great aks anyway. They are good, but I have seen plenty that had issues as well."
But since you have clarified yourself that you didn't intend to say that and you meant other rifles have more features I will simply accept your clarification. Sometimes we don't type it exactly the way we meant it.
But regardless of "features" Arsenals make one of the best AKs in the world. When you factor in that Arsenal now includes the Russian Izhmash SGL series I honestly can't think of a better AK.
NeoNeanderthal
09-29-12, 19:14
Am i wrong in thinking that Rifle Dynamics uses Arsenals as a base for a lot of their builds? (I do not know a lot about AK's just the impression i got)
MountainRaven
09-29-12, 20:19
Am i wrong in thinking that Rifle Dynamics uses Arsenals as a base for a lot of their builds? (I do not know a lot about AK's just the impression i got)
I believe they and Krebs both start with freshly imported Saigas.
Doc. Holiday
10-01-12, 09:13
I believe they and Krebs both start with freshly imported Saigas.
That's what I was lead to believe as well.
Not to make you feel like you have a target on your back in this thread, but this comment doesn't make sense to me either. You said that Arsenals weren't great, and that RD AK's were better. Why? Because of a feature set that can be added to an Arsenal. That's like saying Nissans are better cars than Hondas because they come with shinier aftermarket wheels, or cooler seat covers. Stuff that can be added later. It hasn't got anything to do with the quality of the gun / car. You understand? Again, not trying to be a jerk but it appears that you are confusing features that can be added with build quality. It's probably just your wording, I'm guessing. Anyway, enjoy your RD guns. By all accounts I've read they're excellent.
I think that certain features such as better triggers, deburing components, and better finishes do in fact make them better rifles. Sure you could do that to an arsenal, but at that point how much does the arsenal cost. Is it still going to be cheaper then a sig?
And with that, I think I will be done with the conversation. I think most now have an understanding of my intention of my post. The fact is aks can be a crapshoot, no matter who you buy them from. I love the ak 47. But after years of owning them and fighting them I left them, and that is probably why my coments may seem biased. I have owned many an AK and handled even more. I have seen high end aks that had issues and seen wasr-10 that were actually good. At the same time I the oposite is usually true (wasr not good). I cannot comment on the sigs quality control, but I have heard from people that the new ones are in fact better. If the qc was there, I would buy one in a heartbeat over an ak, but that is just me.
THat being said I love all guns, but one always has to pick the best tool for the job and figure out what suits there needs the best.
I'm still waiting for a unbiased, honest, and thorough review on the 'improved' version of the Sig 556r. Maybe Sturmgewehre can do a second review on them. I really don't trust reviews done by anyone that has a finacial interest in pushing the gun. I'm really digging the looks of the 556r, and I like Sig. Until an unbiased review can be done, I'll pass. If it's as good as some say, I'll get one before Xmas.
Mauser KAR98K
12-06-12, 23:29
It seems that when I go looking for any threads of why AK mags have dried up (good ones, that is), I find my "second look" thread has been brought back, and actually, in good timely form.
I have since put in over 700 rounds with my Sig 556r, mostly with Wolf and Brown bear FMJ's and JHP's, and thus far I have had no issues. I have also been running RPK 40 round mags too. I had one RPK mag seat very tight, but a little shaving on the back tab with the grinder solved the problem. The other one I have has worked flawlessly out of the box.
I have also been running this gun hard and hot. No malfunctions, and no issues with accuracy.
Since the initial review, I have placed a Yankee Hill flash suppressor on it (lengthening the weapon, but oh well) and the initial recoil and muzzle climb with the A2 birdcage has improved. The Sig feels to have the recoil of a M4 with a little noticable muzzle climb. I am considering of ordering a Battlecomp for 7.62 to see what the difference would be. Overall, recoil control and rapid fire is on par with an M4 carbine. For a .30 cal type weapon, this is great.
The fit and finish, however, is taking a beating. The right side near the ejection part has the black paint chipping away from cassings hitting the side. Also, the mag well has small exposed spots where the paint has chipped away. My Noveske/LMT hybrid that is my main weapon has similar spots, but my Noveske/LMT has been shot and used and abused a lot more than the SIG, yet the signs are just beginning to be noticeable, while the SIG has its "aging" spots early. Overall, the paint and finish could be a lot better to hold up to this weapon and what it is meant for. (A shell deflector would also be nice).
The top torque screws on the optic rail have loosened to the point in the one to the front I can thumb tighten with the pad of my thumb. I could thread lock the suckers, but I am considering either getting the TROY rail system for it, or the Samson rail system. Which leads too--
The hand guards are flimsy in feel, and yes they do move and wobble. But I have not had an issue of the hand guards getting hot after a 2X 40 round mag dump in secession. AND YES I KNOW THE FRONT RAIL IS ON BACKWARDS...and it works rather well in this position with the Magpul vertical grip. It acts like a crude AFG in this regard, and is quite comfortable with my slender guitar fingers.
I have yet to:
Run it at over 50 yards to see groupings. i did a 25/300 yard Army sighter target and punched the inside of the silhouette target out, this is just with the mag as a monopod, and at the coming twighlight. Before this I was getting nice three to four round clover leafs on a five shot string.
Run it at a 3-gun match. With my current observations, I surmise accuracy and target engagement times will be on par if I'd run my M4, maybe a tad slower due to the muzzle climb of the 7.62X39. Reloads are a given to be slower.
What I wish SIG would have done is shipped the thing with iron sights over this poor excuse of an Aimpoint micro copy. It has held zero for the past 300 rounds, so that is a plus, but it is hard to sight through in low light, the eye relief is horrible for a red-dot optic, and the battery life sucks. Plus, SIG does not include a base mount to bring the optic up from the receiver. This SUCKS while shooting in the prone position because of the bad cheek wield, and the rear sling mount slams into my nose. I love red-dots, but irons would be much better suited for this rifle out of the box.
yes, i bought mine from Suarze International, but they did my a favor by: having one in stock at a pretty decent price, and put a real steel magazine instead of the Sig issued magazine. At this point, though, that has been the only dealing I have had with OST, probably will stay that way.
The only financial interest I have with this rifle is shooting cheaper ammo, and to have a 7.62X39 chambered weapon that accepts AKM mags. Thus far it has fullfilled my goals, and then some. Out of the box I did not have to buy and heavily modify the weapon to accept American optics (though some of the Russian optics and mounts are actually pretty good), or to get a rail/handguard set that would let me get close to shooting the new modern techniques. The Sig has a nice long forearm that is very comfortable to have my hand way out in the front (just beware of the gas piston system), plus it came optics ready at the rear.
I plan on not cleaning it until i get to the 1200 round mark and see how it has done. I have cleaned it at the 200 round mark, that was also to inspect the parts and give a proper grease and lube rather than the factories.
Overall, I am pleased. If Sigs quality control track record was a lot better, I would highly recommend this rifle over an AK out of the box. Even with the crappy optic and the bad excuse of an AK magazine Sig sends you, and the chipping of the paint this early in its shooting life, the rifle as a whole conquers these flaws. Price wise to customzie to make the rifle better, does the AK beat it in this light? I'm not sure. An extra $300 for a new rail forearm system, and another $100-$200 for BUIS, and an extra $300-500 for a good quilty optic; how much would these same things cost for an AK to put together (minus the BUIS). I will go so far to say the SIG is probably more accurate than the AK. Zeroed in, and with a better optic, I am positive this thing can post some nice groupings further than 100 yards over a standard AK.
Not too suprised about the finish, I was in a class with a student who had a 556 and after about 500 rounds the side was pretty scuffed; the lack of a shell deflector is a bit odd. :confused:
Not too suprised about the finish, I was in a class with a student who had a 556 and after about 500 rounds the side was pretty scuffed; the lack of a shell deflector is a bit odd. :confused:
Happens on real SIGs, FALs and HKs too.
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