View Full Version : Another AR-15 torture test
www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6cwh4IxXSc
Not bad, eh?
Especially considering that it used Tula ammo....
saddlerocker
09-27-12, 18:50
I think the amazing part is only 1 malfunction throughout all that TULA ammo on full auto.
Oh Yeah, and ZOMG its a Spikes! it must be a lie
So I don't want to open that can of worms...
But what exactly is the deal with spikes and this forum? (I actually have no clue, but I always see these references such as the one above). Those threads always seem to take a wrong turn too.
I ain't got any horse in the race. I still don't own an AR because I keep buying milsurps, and I still plan on getting a BCM mid-length. Can't decide whether I need the CHF bbl or the standard one though...
But anyway, what's the deal with Spikes? Are they good or bad or what?
I think the amazing part is only 1 malfunction throughout all that TULA ammo on full auto.
Oh Yeah, and ZOMG its a Spikes! it must be a lie
They fired the rifle on semi-auto. I agree, the rifle performed very well in the test
But what exactly is the deal with spikes and this forum?
Their customer base is the uninformed. They make weird stuff like tungsten powdered buffers. They're just sketchy mofos.
Someone saw their certifications and they were unusual at best. They don't come out and outright lie about their stuff like LWRCi. They're just kind of an unknown player in the AR world.
Recreational AR users seem to be satisfied with SPIKES, so... it is what it is.
At least it was presented well. The video, that is.
I've had great luck with Tula Ammo
MiamiCracker
09-27-12, 20:37
Their customer base is the uninformed. They make weird stuff like tungsten powdered buffers. They're just sketchy mofos.
Someone saw their certifications and they were unusual at best. They don't come out and outright lie about their stuff like LWRCi. They're just kind of an unknown player in the AR world.
Recreational AR users seem to be satisfied with SPIKES, so... it is what it is.
I have read why there is hate for Spikes on this forum, but I would rather not elaborate.
If all the stuff that dude said is true than it looks like Spikes is good to go. I'd buy one if I was a person that didn't roll his own.
I have had awful luck with Tula.
So I don't want to open that can of worms...
But what exactly is the deal with spikes and this forum? (I actually have no clue, but I always see these references such as the one above). Those threads always seem to take a wrong turn too.
I ain't got any horse in the race. I still don't own an AR because I keep buying milsurps, and I still plan on getting a BCM mid-length. Can't decide whether I need the CHF bbl or the standard one though...
But anyway, what's the deal with Spikes? Are they good or bad or what?
From what I have seen its mostly a cultural difference. On some spikes weapons they seem to have all the 'things from the chart', and the FN barrels are really good.
But...They have a stupid name and some horrible logo of a spider, if you don't like the spider there are some other mall ninja-esque logos they have (I could only imagine they have Zombie theme as well). They cater to the hobby level AR consumer.
People here prefer to get their ARs from companies that make real deal weapons used by actual military. Companies like Colt, FN, KAC, and Daniel Defense. Companies that don't have time to do a zombie theme because they are filling or competing for a military contract.
People here prefer to get their ARs from companies that make real deal weapons used by actual military. Companies like Colt, FN, KAC, and Daniel Defense. Companies that don't have time to do a zombie theme because they are filling or competing for a military contract.
I wasn't aware that Daniel Defense made rifles for the military or that FN made civilian AR's.
Magic_Salad0892
09-27-12, 23:48
I wasn't aware that Daniel Defense made rifles for the military or that FN made civilian AR's.
DD has military contracts (rails), and finishes the manufactering on the HK MR556 barrels in the US.
There are companies who sells FN parts on their rifles.
FN really needs to produce their shit to the civilian market though. It'd be great.
From what I have seen its mostly a cultural difference. On some spikes weapons they seem to have all the 'things from the chart', and the FN barrels are really good.
But...They have a stupid name and some horrible logo of a spider, if you don't like the spider there are some other mall ninja-esque logos they have (I could only imagine they have Zombie theme as well). They cater to the hobby level AR consumer.
People here prefer to get their ARs from companies that make real deal weapons used by actual military. Companies like Colt, FN, KAC, and Daniel Defense. Companies that don't have time to do a zombie theme because they are filling or competing for a military contract.
Spiders/pirates/zombies have the same amount of appeal to me as a pony, knight, or giant stenciled letters on the side of a weapon. That is, I don't really care if everything else is the same. And as far as a lower receiver, it's hard to go wrong if it's forged aluminum, especially if it's contracted out to a large supplier of lowers.
As far as their name goes, at least they didn't name the company after their CEO/founder...
It's funny you mention fn because as you've said, spikes often uses fn barrels. And companies like Noveske and BCM, to my knowledge, don't have any mil contracts, not even just rails, yet are rated just as highly as colt and dd here.
[QUOTE=Koshinn;1404760]Spiders/pirates/zombies have the same amount of appeal to me as a pony, knight, or giant stenciled letters on the side of a weapon.
As far as their name goes, at least they didn't name the company after their CEO/founder...
What did you name your company...:D
Thanks for the explanations.
After this video, good to see that another rifle can walk the walk, no? (Regardless of who makes it).
I was mostly impressed that the Tula ammo worked overall. Everyone seems to hate it for the most part.
In spite of the weird spider, are Spike stripped lowers any good?
polymorpheous
09-28-12, 03:19
In spite of the weird spider, are Spike stripped lowers any good?
They should be fine.
There was some drama over on Barf a while back about some guy getting one that was out of spec.
He cut it in half and put pictures up.
Personally the shit they pulled in 2008 after the election keeps me from giving them any of my money.
Besides, BCM is local to me.
TacticalSledgehammer
09-28-12, 04:57
I've got their Lower (spider), LPK, and NiB BCG. I had some trouble with their LPK at first with the mag release being out of spec. I replaced it and have been problem free ever since. The NiB bcg runs like a champ though. They have definitely tried to grab the consumer market though. I think their quality is better than most consumer guns however. Their NiB bolt carrier group + My LMT upper turned out to be a good match. Its been flawless.
Looking back there would have been some changes I would have made. (I wish I would have bought one of the LMT lowers)
Thanks for the explanations.
After this video, good to see that another rifle can walk the walk, no? (Regardless of who makes it).
I was mostly impressed that the Tula ammo worked overall. Everyone seems to hate it for the most part.
In spite of the weird spider, are Spike stripped lowers any good?
Yep. I always knew Spikes made a quality rifle but usually their quality gets lost in the shuffle about Spikes conduct as a company in general. That rifle performed very well.
I've had some good luck with Tula. For practice ammo its hard to beat its price.
Their lowers are fine. Like any company they may have a small handful slip out that are out of spec, but they will replace it if you have a problem.
Spikes could do themselves a world of good by not acting like douches all the time on TOS. I understand why people don't want to give them their money.
Spikes could do themselves a world of good by not acting like douches all the time on TOS. I understand why people don't want to give them their money.
Oh really? Spikes has LaRue syndrome huh? Too funny.
With DD and BCM around... there's absolutely no reason to be buying stuff from Spikes.
Oh really? Spikes has LaRue syndrome huh? Too funny.
With DD and BCM around... there's absolutely no reason to be buying stuff from Spikes.
Where else am I gunna get my gaudy ass fake grenade launchers and cans?
:suicide2:
If those items don't tell you who Spikes customer base is, the I don't know what clue will wake you up. :p
Nightvisionary
09-28-12, 11:41
Their customer base is the uninformed. They make weird stuff like tungsten powdered buffers. They're just sketchy mofos.
Someone saw their certifications and they were unusual at best. They don't come out and outright lie about their stuff like LWRCi. They're just kind of an unknown player in the AR world.
Recreational AR users seem to be satisfied with SPIKES, so... it is what it is.
I guess that makes me uninformed then:D
I guess that makes me uninformed then:D
Well what do you need to know? :D...
justin_247
09-28-12, 12:44
Spikes could do themselves a world of good by not acting like douches all the time on TOS. I understand why people don't want to give them their money.
Some of the people they have to deal with on TOS are complete and utter douchebags, and should be treated as such. KAC has done the same thing, and BCM has occasionally publicly humiliated them in a polite way.
Spike's actually recommends other brands when they don't stock something the customer needs. For example, they've recommended BCM on a few occasions.
Some of the people they have to deal with on TOS are complete and utter douchebags, and should be treated as such.
That's very true. Companies like Magpul and BCM seem to handle themselves a little more professionally though.
It's hard not to get dragged down into battle with some of those idiots on TOS. Believe me. I'm not banned from their for coddling stupidity! :D
Some of the people they have to deal with on TOS are complete and utter douchebags, and should be treated as such. KAC has done the same thing, and BCM has occasionally publicly humiliated them in a polite way.
Spike's actually recommends other brands when they don't stock something the customer needs. For example, they've recommended BCM on a few occasions.
I agree. They deal with people constantly attacking their rifles and company and I feel they can respond in kind. I know it gets old for them to always be called out on TOS and here. My remark about them being douches has to do with Palmetto State Armory.
Their straight up attack on PSA (in PSA's own forum) paints them as assholes though. I understand they are a competitor but if you read through their threads in which they attack PSA they end up doing more harm than good to themselves.
Oh really? Spikes has LaRue syndrome huh? Too funny.
If DD and BCM actually had shit in stock... there would be absolutely no reason to be buying stuff from Spikes.
Fixed it for you.
Fixed it for you.
You didn't fix anything. Just because it's not available on their website, that doesn't mean it's not available at one of DD or BCM's dealers. Go have a look at G&R's website.
You didn't fix anything. Just because it's not available on their website, that doesn't mean it's not available at one of DD or BCM's dealers. Go have a look at G&R's website.
That's a big no thanks. And btw, he's pretty much out of stock too.
justin_247
09-28-12, 14:44
My remark about them being douches has to do with Palmetto State Armory.
Their straight up attack on PSA (in PSA's own forum) paints them as assholes though. I understand they are a competitor but if you read through their threads in which they attack PSA they end up doing more harm than good to themselves.
The Spike's vs. PSA thing is a matter of pots calling kettles black. Seriously... they source many of the same parts from the same people.
They make weird stuff like tungsten powdered buffers.
What is weird in that? They only copied design that works good in HK416 for last 8 years.
That's a big no thanks. And btw, he's pretty much out of stock too.
Generally speaking, the AR shopping world isn't filled with instant gratification. The reason that most good equipment IS out of stock is because some people think it should be.
polymorpheous
09-28-12, 15:03
What is weird in that? They only copied design that works good in HK416 for last 8 years.
The HK416 is a piston gun.
Makes a big difference.
The Spike's vs. PSA thing is a matter of pots calling kettles black. Seriously... they source many of the same parts from the same people.
What parts from what same-people?
The Other (ar15) Site
ahhh, it all makes sense now.
Freedoooom
09-28-12, 15:50
Weak.
Dirt in the chamber please.
That's a big no thanks. And btw, he's pretty much out of stock too.
check out budsgunshop they currently have a wide range of DD rifles in stock with free shipping.
lots of sand, and lots of vagina's... if you guys get pissed at every company who has done something douchy in the past then why are you posting on this forum?...
im sure a few of you know what im referring to, but i have no need to bring it up.. because frankly i dont care...
many companies have been flaming douche bags in the past... look no farther then colt...
justin_247
09-28-12, 22:59
What parts from what same-people?
Lots of parts from FN and Aero.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6cwh4IxXSc
Not bad, eh?
Especially considering that it used Tula ammo....
My only comment is, Why??:confused:
My only comment is, Why??:confused:
You really don't know? He was trying to show how reliable an AR15 can be when not cleaned, abused and fed the cheapest shit ammo possible. At least that's what I got out of it.
You really don't know? He was trying to show how reliable an AR15 can be when not cleaned, abused and fed the cheapest shit ammo possible. At least that's what I got out of it.
That sounds like the most reasonable conclusion.
Freedoooom
09-29-12, 16:55
Apparently I am the only one here with Spidey Senses.
I call BS on the fire. The fire should started at the gas block like this:
http://cdn5.thefirearmsblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/m_4a_1_tfb-tfb.png
However this one started at the middle and stayed at the middle, where the gas tube is t he farthest from the hand guard if I'm not mistaken..
everyusernametaken
09-29-12, 16:56
If those items don't tell you who Spikes customer base is, the I don't know what clue will wake you up. :p
I completely agree. I couldn't believe it the first time I saw a fake suppressor listed on some online "gun" store, and sure enough, it was a spikes product. I've never seen such a gay gun-related product anywhere, ever. I'd be embarrassed to own any of their crap. They certainly cater to a specific market! :D
Apparently I am the only one here with Spidey Senses.
I call BS on the fire. The fire should started at the gas block like this:
However this one started at the middle and stayed at the middle, where the gas tube is t he farthest from the hand guard if I'm not mistaken..
It probably did start there, but they were outside and the ventilation of the handguard allowed air to flow different and so the heat flowed different. I also would suppose that the thumb over bore perhaps could have absorbed enough energy to make the fire start or appear further back if the air wasn't the primary cause of the way it visibly burned there. There was also more light so we wouldn't see fire the same.
By the way, yes, gas tubes turn red hot near the gas block first from what I've noticed.
The end quote of the video was, "I think that speaks highly of the platform." He didn't say, "It speaks highly of the folks over at Spike's Tactical" by the way.
Just from what I've seen over at that guy's blog, I doubt he'd be the kind of person to bullshit something like that.
I agree, its hard to see flame in broad daylight as well.
I'm going to go ahead and post this picture. I'm sure it's helpful.
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/564295_459950184036783_168158780_n.jpg
everyusernametaken
09-30-12, 02:30
Ouch! :blink:
You really don't know? He was trying to show how reliable an AR15 can be when not cleaned, abused and fed the cheapest shit ammo possible. At least that's what I got out of it.
I already know how reliable it is. I don't need some idiot setting his hand guard on fire and then throwing the rifle in a water filled muddy ditch.
I already know how reliable it is. I don't need some idiot setting his hand guard on fire and then throwing the rifle in a water filled muddy ditch.
Does everybody already know what you know?
Do you think he did it for you specifically?
justin_247
09-30-12, 12:21
I already know how reliable it is. I don't need some idiot setting his hand guard on fire and then throwing the rifle in a water filled muddy ditch.
He's not an idiot... he's actually one of the most intelligent gun bloggers out there, if not THE most.
This was a test that included several ARs and utilized over $12,000 worth of ammunition. When you see the results, I doubt you'll be going around calling him an "idiot."
Suwannee Tim
09-30-12, 12:49
I already know how reliable it is. I don't need some idiot setting his hand guard on fire and then throwing the rifle in a water filled muddy ditch.
He's not an idiot... he's actually one of the most intelligent gun bloggers out there, if not THE most.....
He does seem to be knowledgeable and well spoken. I'd sure like to help out on such a test. I think Spikes and Colt are culturally exact opposites. Colt is deadly serious and they don't seem to care much about the civilian market. Spikes on the other hand sells stuff that is just plain fun. Fake cans and fake grenade launchers for example. I bet it's a lot more fun to work at Spikes.
He does seem to be knowledgeable and well spoken. I'd sure like to help out on such a test. I think Spikes and Colt are culturally exact opposites. Colt is deadly serious and they don't seem to care much about the civilian market. Spikes on the other hand sells stuff that is just plain fun. Fake cans and fake grenade launchers for example. I bet it's a lot more fun to work at Spikes.
Maybe I just don't "get it"...but what is "Just plain fun" about a fake suppressor?
Maybe I just don't "get it"...but what is "Just plain fun" about a fake suppressor?
Fake suppressors are lame. Fake cans on the other hand...those are a blast.
justin_247
09-30-12, 13:54
He does seem to be knowledgeable and well spoken. I'd sure like to help out on such a test. I think Spikes and Colt are culturally exact opposites. Colt is deadly serious and they don't seem to care much about the civilian market. Spikes on the other hand sells stuff that is just plain fun. Fake cans and fake grenade launchers for example. I bet it's a lot more fun to work at Spikes.
Well, Colt is in Hartford, CT and Spike's is just south of Orlando, FL - Spike's definitely wins when it comes to government and weather. Oh, and they're not unionized like Colt.
I don't blame Spike's for producing fake suppressors and fake grenade launchers. There are stupid people in the gun industry... why not try to get some of that market? Meanwhile, they're producing quality weapons at a cheaper price than DPMS, Bushmaster, and Olympic, so better weapons are getting into civilian hands. That's not a bad thing at all.
Given a choice, I would still take a Colt over a Spike's...
Magic_Salad0892
09-30-12, 22:35
I already know how reliable it is. I don't need some idiot setting his hand guard on fire and then throwing the rifle in a water filled muddy ditch.
Name calling isn't accepted here. We're more professional on this site than that.
Andrew (87GN) is one of the most intelligent gun bloggers on the internet, and I've had the pleasure of personally having him prove me wrong, and making me look like an idiot about two years ago on this very board.
There's a lot to be said for a dude who spends as much time shooting, and collecting evidence, and performing scientific tests as him.
Please refrain from name calling. Especially when you're not backing anything up either.
everyusernametaken
09-30-12, 23:36
Maybe I just don't "get it"...but what is "Just plain fun" about a fake suppressor?
FWIW, I don't get it either. The simple fact that spikes sells a product like that essentially destroys any credibility they may have ever had in my mind. Fake suppressors, fake grenade launchers, rollmarks of comic book characters, zombies and whatever kind of spider that's supposed to resemble on their own logo - all of these identify a specific target consumer, and it is not a group that I belong to, to say the least.
This sort of make-believe crap reminds me of the rice-boys who put tons of gaudy and useless garbage all over their street cars, believing the pitiful marketing hype that it's somehow "racing" gear. The problem is, they then go out and attempt to drive beyond their ability and that of their now-handicapped modified car, and innocent people get hurt.
I really don't like the idea of catering to the sort of people who are least likely to take the potential dangers of shooting seriously. The worst part is, their actions ultimately reflect on all of us in the eyes of our anti-gun opposition.
I swear, the conduct I've seen at the local range lately has been appalling.
Sorry for the rant, but this has bothered me for a while.
I don't know much about Spikes other than what I saw so far on the video I posted.
But on the other hand, I can't personally blame them if they're selling crap that people are willing to pay for. All businesses are in it to make money.
Ironically, Andrew posted a picture on his blog's FB page today pointing out that these fake Spikes 37mm launchers are being found south of the border these days.
vicious_cb
10-01-12, 00:25
I already know how reliable it is. I don't need some idiot setting his hand guard on fire and then throwing the rifle in a water filled muddy ditch.
Not to mention that test was in no way meant to be scientific. If you want to see some real scientific tests with good data check out his blog.
http://vuurwapenblog.com/
I already know how reliable it is. I don't need some idiot setting his hand guard on fire and then throwing the rifle in a water filled muddy ditch.
It should be obvious that this video is for fun and is just meant to stir up interest for one of his projects. He is actually doing a lot for AR enthusiasts if you take a look at his blog.
As far as Spike's goes, everyone should be thankful for their presence in the market. They build quality rifles at competitive prices, which in turn stimulates other manufacturers to drive their costs down and improve their products. Some people don't mind paying a couple hundred extra dollars for the Colt rollmark, which is fine, but if a company has no competition and can make sales based solely on branding, they can easily go the way of Sig.
It should be obvious that this video is for fun and is just meant to stir up interest for one of his projects. He is actually doing a lot for AR enthusiasts if you take a look at his blog.
As far as Spike's goes, everyone should be thankful for their presence in the market. They build quality rifles at competitive prices, which in turn stimulates other manufacturers to drive their costs down and improve their products. Some people don't mind paying a couple hundred extra dollars for the Colt rollmark, which is fine, but if a company has no competition and can make sales based solely on branding, they can easily go the way of Sig.
Yeah...because the rollmark is the ONLY difference...
Yeah...because the rollmark is the ONLY difference...
If you compare the specs for Spike's and Colt, yes, they are virtually identical. You are paying extra for Colt's heritage and the peace of mind that you have "the best". There is no magic involved with assembling a rifle properly. And not to stir the pot more, but the finish on a Spike's rifle is arguably better. I will say that a Colt has better resale value.
If you compare the specs for Spike's and Colt, yes, they are virtually identical. You are paying extra for Colt's heritage and the peace of mind that you have "the best". There is no magic involved with assembling a rifle properly. And not to stir the pot more, but the finish on a Spike's rifle is arguably better. I will say that a Colt has better resale value.
There is more to a rifle than what is on the spec sheet.
There doesn't have to be "Magic" involved for one to do it better than another.
DiabhailGadhar
10-01-12, 18:03
IMHO...I think Spike selling stupid crap does some good for us...the younger generation want guns because they look cool. They in turn buy gimmicky shit..as they get older and wiser they hopefully become more informed and move past their childish want for a weapon and move on to what they need in a weapon. Keeping the demand and hopefully the newer generation of NRA members/voters on the rise...shit to be honest I'm guilty myself. I started my first rifle buld with a spikes based on a very quick search on the Internet. Now I haven't had a single weapon related malfunction with my build and have rolled over 1k rounds having only initially cleaned and lubed the weapon after completing the build over a year and a half ago..I then became informed by reading every thing I could here so my second build was made completely out of BCM/colt parts and so will my third, fourth, and tenth...proving my point..
Furthermore lets be real...selling anything to any one is done for the sole purpose of making money. I don't care who you are. Spikes sells dumb shit cuz people will buy it, their customer base isn't really a concern what is is their profit margin. Now I will agree that some people put a hell of a lot more of their respective conscience into doing it then others....ie. BCM.
Now as far as the video goes, now that I've completely wondered full circle back on target, I think people like this do an amazing service to all parties involved. We learn, get entertained and have an opportunity to see what it would be like to have unlimited gun funds ..lol..shit I'm going to start watching this guys blog..(whatever the hell that is)
Suwannee Tim
10-01-12, 20:15
If I had taken the 'smart' path I would have started out at age 14 with a single shot 22 rifle. Then a bolt action. Then an auto. Then a 22 pistol. As it was I started out with a 9mm then a 44 magnum then a 30 Herrett. Along the way, 454s, 300 magnums, several 375s, various dangerous game rifles, 1911s, varmint guns a couple of M1As, a 338 BAR, all kinds of shit. Most recently a 450 Bushie. I could have gotten by with a 22 rifle and pistol, a 30-06 and a 38. Most of this stuff was not very smart. What do I need with a 7.62 mm AR? A KelTec RFB? It has been hell of a lot of fun though. There is a place for fun. As far as fake cans I don't think they are that much fun but someone does. Fake grenade launchers, now that's another matter. I gotta get one just to drive the old women who officer my range crazy.
He does seem to be knowledgeable and well spoken. I'd sure like to help out on such a test. I think Spikes and Colt are culturally exact opposites. Colt is deadly serious and they don't seem to care much about the civilian market. Spikes on the other hand sells stuff that is just plain fun. Fake cans and fake grenade launchers for example. I bet it's a lot more fun to work at Spikes.
While I think colt was maybe a bit guilty for neglecting the civilian market to a certain degree in the past, their current trend toward offering really great rifle packages(magpul models, socom models, competition models, etc.) plus the recent great reviews of their customer service shows a great shift in their business model and trying to connect with serious gun enthusiasts like myself and most other members on this site.
p22shooter30
10-02-12, 16:13
Thanks for the explanations.
After this video, good to see that another rifle can walk the walk, no? (Regardless of who makes it).
I was mostly impressed that the Tula ammo worked overall. Everyone seems to hate it for the most part.
In spite of the weird spider, are Spike stripped lowers any good?
Yes, they are very solid and have a good finish. i have used 4 of them in my last 4 builds and would use them again. i dont care whats on the side of it, spider or pony, you only look at it a few times and then you never really notice it much after that.
Freedoooom
10-02-12, 19:16
There is more to a rifle than what is on the spec sheet.
There doesn't have to be "Magic" involved for one to do it better than another.
Then what exactly does it? If they are built to the same specs, there is no difference.
I have used 2 Spikes billet lowers, 1 forged all stripped.
I also have a Noveske and KAC lowers.
They all have been good to go.
As long as the lower is in spec it's good to go, just use a good
lpk, and trigger.
There's no difference.
Then what exactly does it? If they are built to the same specs, there is no difference.
So every single part on that rifle has a spec to meet, and if you have two "milspec" rifles, every single part is exactly the same?
And they are put together exactly the same?
And the quality control is exactly the same?
The proof is in the pudding.
Look, we're seeing this rifle go though a lot using dirty ammo, being thrown in water and mud to cool down, not being cleaned, catching the hand guard on fire...
...and we're discussing how the quality control at Spike's is questionable?
Okay, well, until there's some legitimate proofing, it seems we've just witnessed an AR that is likely put together right.
The video was fun to see- and it really was just posted for us to see something interesting I'm sure, but we can note that was just one of the days of testing the rifle as well as the ammo. I'm sure I don't have to mention that most of us who watched the video would never replicate it ourselves unless we had the resources and the jobs Mr. Tuohy has. He even states in his video that there is no real-world situation that anyone would put so many rounds down range in such a little amount of time.
So really, are you going to go off saying that rifle is nothing compared to another quality AR-15? prove it.
Every company whether it be Olympic, Bushmaster, Colt, BCM, Spikes etc. is capable of putting out a good rifle. However IMO what seperates the Olympics and Bushmasters of the world compared to BCM and Colt are that BCM and Colt are more likely to produce a great rifle thanks to the quality control and the individual testing of bolts and other crucial parts
How many times have we heard well my Olympic has over 10,000 rds thru it without any issues so why do I need a Colt but we have heard a lot more about all the problems the user has with his Olympic.
What seperates the great companies (Colt, BCM, KAC, etc) compared to the awful companies (Olympic, Bushmaster, DPMS, etc) to the good companies (Spikes, PSA, Stag, etc.) are the number of quality rifles they produce out a 1,000 or 10,000. You have a better chance of getting a great Colt rifle than a DPMS or even Spikes becuase of the QC they have in place, the higher quality parts and the individual testing of the crucial parts. Thats not to say that DPMS doesn't produce a great rifle now and then and as we saw in the video so does Spikes its just that the "great" companies do it more often therefore have a better reputation and IMO are worth the extra $100 or so.
sinlessorrow
10-03-12, 08:07
I think this is a better test, and only reason I'm posin to this site is because my phone does not let me link youtube videos.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/586232_.html
Not to mention MRJJ is pretty comical in his posts
Freedoooom
10-03-12, 15:02
So every single part on that rifle has a spec to meet, and if you have two "milspec" rifles, every single part is exactly the same?
And they are put together exactly the same?
And the quality control is exactly the same?
Okay what is different and why is it better. If QC is the problem please post evidence.
vicious_cb
10-03-12, 15:08
Every company whether it be Olympic, Bushmaster, Colt, BCM, Spikes etc. is capable of putting out a good rifle. However IMO what seperates the Olympics and Bushmasters of the world compared to BCM and Colt are that BCM and Colt are more likely to produce a great rifle thanks to the quality control and the individual testing of bolts and other crucial parts
How many times have we heard well my Olympic has over 10,000 rds thru it without any issues so why do I need a Colt but we have heard a lot more about all the problems the user has with his Olympic.
What seperates the great companies (Colt, BCM, KAC, etc) compared to the awful companies (Olympic, Bushmaster, DPMS, etc) to the good companies (Spikes, PSA, Stag, etc.) are the number of quality rifles they produce out a 1,000 or 10,000. You have a better chance of getting a great Colt rifle than a DPMS or even Spikes becuase of the QC they have in place, the higher quality parts and the individual testing of the crucial parts. Thats not to say that DPMS doesn't produce a great rifle now and then and as we saw in the video so does Spikes its just that the "great" companies do it more often therefore have a better reputation and IMO are worth the extra $100 or so.
I dont think that first statement is true at all. Its not just the testing but proper selection of materials and parts as well as attention during the assembly process are crucial to making a good AR.
Okay what is different and why is it better. If QC is the problem please post evidence.
You didn't answer my questions.
Then what exactly does it? If they are built to the same specs, there is no difference.
So every single part on that rifle has a spec to meet, and if you have two "milspec" rifles, every single part is exactly the same?
And they are put together exactly the same?
And the quality control is exactly the same?
Freedoooom
10-03-12, 16:31
You didn't answer my questions.
Those are questions you should answer, seeing as I am the one saying there is no difference between them.
Answer the damn question.
Those are questions you should answer, seeing as I am the one saying there is no difference between them.
Answer the damn question.
What question?
Every company whether it be Olympic, Bushmaster, Colt, BCM, Spikes etc. is capable of putting out a good rifle. However IMO what seperates the Olympics and Bushmasters of the world compared to BCM and Colt are that BCM and Colt are more likely to produce a great rifle thanks to the quality control and the individual testing of bolts and other crucial parts
This is a notable point about quality control. Quality control is consistency of a special standard. Another point made being the parts quality. There's for sure a lot of problems with the parts Bushmaster and other such companies use. In fact some of them make parts out of a lesser quality metal to begin with (at this point testing doesn't make the part good.) It's also true an AR-15 isn't quite a 1911 situation to where they actually require a high percentage of precision work. If Nighthawk used bad parts in their handguns I'm sure their product would work pretty well with all the work put into them until the parts insufficiency came into play (whether tested or not). Likewise, a gun made of good parts could suffer from insufficient attention by the armorer/gunsmith.
The AR-15 is for sure not a 1911, but there is a balance with any product. I've not researched horror stories on the Spike's rifles, so I have no data to present in this post about how they may not have good parts or quality control. In other words, I'm not going to be convinced they're lesser than another quality company until I see things other than them performing so well. So far there's lots of great proof they're "good to go".
Here's the vuurwapen blog's take...
http://vuurwapenblog.com/2010/05/18/bravo-company-mfg-vs-spikes-tactical/
sinlessorrow
10-04-12, 14:43
This is a notable point about quality control. Quality control is consistency of a special standard. Another point made being the parts quality. There's for sure a lot of problems with the parts Bushmaster and other such companies use. In fact some of them make parts out of a lesser quality metal to begin with (at this point testing doesn't make the part good.) It's also true an AR-15 isn't quite a 1911 situation to where they actually require a high percentage of precision work. If Nighthawk used bad parts in their handguns I'm sure their product would work pretty well with all the work put into them until the parts insufficiency came into play (whether tested or not). Likewise, a gun made of good parts could suffer from insufficient attention by the armorer/gunsmith.
The AR-15 is for sure not a 1911, but there is a balance with any product. I've not researched horror stories on the Spike's rifles, so I have no data to present in this post about how they may not have good parts or quality control. In other words, I'm not going to be convinced they're lesser than another quality company until I see things other than them performing so well. So far there's lots of great proof they're "good to go".
Here's the vuurwapen blog's take...
http://vuurwapenblog.com/2010/05/18/bravo-company-mfg-vs-spikes-tactical/
I do no support spikes because their owner has showed poor business practices on TOS, like calling companies liars while under his spikes name only to be proven he was wrong, ive also seen him call out and personally insult users on TOS. Thos are practices I do no wish to support.
What is TOS?
Thank you for asking that question. This whole time, I thought it meant Terms Of Service. :confused:
sinlessorrow
10-04-12, 20:44
Thank you for asking that question. This whole time, I thought it meant Terms Of Service. :confused:
The other site....as in arfcom.
FWIW, I don't get it either. The simple fact that spikes sells a product like that essentially destroys any credibility they may have ever had in my mind. Fake suppressors, fake grenade launchers, rollmarks of comic book characters, zombies and whatever kind of spider that's supposed to resemble on their own logo - all of these identify a specific target consumer, and it is not a group that I belong to, to say the least.
So you are saying beretta doesn't have any credibility with you because they sell a fake suppressor as well? They sell a barrel shroud for the cx4 carbine that looks like a suppressor. Colt lent their name to some really shitty 22 rifles that look like the ar.
Personally I don't get the fake suppressors either. Same can be said for the 37mm launchers as most people will have no use for them. Thing is people do like them and buy them. I can't fault spikes for selling them in the same way I can't fault beretta for selling that suppressor looking shroud for the cx4.
For the logo's who really cares. If you are building a gun off a lower does it really matter as long as the lower is in spec? I have a zombie lower from a local ffl that is sbr'd. Mega made the lower, I just liked how it has Va on the side of it. People like to make their stuff with logos they like. Be it with stickers or whatever. I wouldn't fault a vendor for doing this. Same way I don't fault smith and wesson for making pink grips for some of their guns. Do those pink grips that they make mean they target the consumer? Yes and no. That product does, it doesn't mean others are though.
Edit: For the record I don't own anything from spikes. I do own products from colt and Beretta. I also own some smith and wesson guns. For all three of them though I haven't bought the crap I listed above.
everyusernametaken
10-04-12, 23:32
I don't care. Buy whatever you want. I know I won't buy anything from Spike's, and it isn't because of a logo. Everyone who has one of their products defends them, big surprise. I, for one, don't feel that their business practices are ethical. I speak to that with my money as a consumer.
BTW, look into their first attempt at a real suppressor - what a joke. The way they promoted that thing is a good indication of how they do business.
everyusernametaken
10-04-12, 23:39
I do no support spikes because their owner has showed poor business practices on TOS, like calling companies liars while under his spikes name only to be proven he was wrong, ive also seen him call out and personally insult users on TOS. Thos are practices I do no wish to support.
I hadn't caught up to current on this thread before my last reply, but I agree with this. I don't see behavior like this from operations like Colt, Daniel Defense, or BCM, to name a few. Hanging around on TOS and sniping at individuals is pretty pathetic for a business in spike's position.
BTW, look into their first attempt at a real suppressor - what a joke. The way they promoted that thing is a good indication of how they do business.
Where's the promotional information? I would like to check it out. I never look into spike's much so I never see these things. (promotional materials)
sinlessorrow
10-04-12, 23:59
Where's the promotional information? I would like to check it out. I never look into spike's much so I never see these things. (promotional materials)
Iposted about it a long time ago so it is probably archived over there now, but I remember it was something like they put down the other suppressor companies by saying something like, if we can achieve 40db reduction we don't know why no one else can, we must be better than them. It was along those lines.
Iposted about it a long time ago so it is probably archived over there now, but I remember it was something like they put down the other suppressor companies by saying something like, if we can achieve 40db reduction we don't know why no one else can, we must be better than them. It was along those lines.
Can we see it?
sinlessorrow
10-05-12, 10:10
Can we see it?
I'll see if i can dig it up, its been a while lol.
I do no support spikes because their owner has showed poor business practices on TOS, like calling companies liars while under his spikes name only to be proven he was wrong, ive also seen him call out and personally insult users on TOS. Thos are practices I do no wish to support.
Didn't larue do this too?
sinlessorrow
10-05-12, 10:18
Didn't larue do this too?
Im not sure if they have or not. Spikes will call you out for no reason, like they did to PSA in regards to HPT ammo.
I dont keep up with larue much nor spikes but spikes does more insulting in the new products board i view over there.
Here is the spikes thing.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=95009
The orange search button is amazing on this website.
Initially I was looking forward to their cans if for nothing else their price, their DB rates are BS but at $600 they seemed like a decent enough product lol, never did get one though.
badazzar15
Spike's Tactical
Industry Partner
Joined: May 2006
FL, USA
Posts: 21648
Feedback: 100% (238)
Link To This Post
Posted: 12/2/2011 6:27:53 PM
We shot the MRS and LRS on an 8" Compressor side by side with a 14.5" Middy w/M4 2K and a 16" SR15 w/NT4. The MRS was just a hair louder and the LRS was WAY quieter, like no comparison. I've never heard a 5.56 suppressor quieter than the LRS. I was so impressed by the LRS that I sold every other 5.56 and 308 suppressor that I owned.
Oh yeah and this
badazzar15
Spike's Tactical
Industry Partner
Joined: May 2006
FL, USA
Posts: 21650
Feedback: 100% (238)
Link To This Post
Posted: 12/2/2011 7:06:08 PM
They will do well, we already sold 100's of Compressor's with MRS suppressors. The US Special Forces, ICE, Border Patrol, Secret Service, Australian Military, and about 30 different PD's and SWAT teams are doing or have already done T&E on the ST Compressor. Because of the success of the Compressor we decided to invest BIG $ in the suppressor project. We spared no expense when it came to anything. The sound meter alone was 5k. 2012 should be an interesting year. :-)
So SOF groups are now rocking this.....from spikes tactical?
http://www.spikestactical.com/new/z/images/prodimg/STR5100-CMP.jpg
What amazes me is how the members over there are eatig that shit up.
And this when I asked abou how their so quiet
badazzar15
Spike's Tactical
Industry Partner
Joined: May 2006
FL, USA
Posts: 21725
Feedback: 100% (238)
Link To This Post
Posted: 12/19/2011 1:16:11 AM [Last Edit: 12/19/2011 1:18:15 AM by badazzar15]
I believe the FN M16 A2 barrel has the correct step. A lot of barrels do have the step.
The design works very well and we are not forcing anyone to buy these. They were designed for use on our Compressor rifle and before you know it the suppressors could only be sold on complete rifles because of the damand of the
Compressor. Instead of asking why our cans perform so well, you should be asking the other company's why theirs dont. If it
didn't work we wouldn't sell it. :-)
http://www.tactical-life.com/online/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/spikes-st-compressor-d.jpg
My tax dollars are supporting Spikes Tactical? Damn I'm writing my congressman :p
justin_247
10-05-12, 11:42
Industry Partner
Joined: May 2006
FL, USA
Posts: 21650
Feedback: 100% (238)
Link To This Post
Posted: 12/2/2011 7:06:08 PM
They will do well, we already sold 100's of Compressor's with MRS suppressors. The US Special Forces, ICE, Border Patrol, Secret Service, Australian Military, and about 30 different PD's and SWAT teams are doing or have already done T&E on the ST Compressor. Because of the success of the Compressor we decided to invest BIG $ in the suppressor project. We spared no expense when it came to anything. The sound meter alone was 5k. 2012 should be an interesting year. :-)
I've defended Spike's Tactical in the past, but this is absolutely unacceptable. They're basically stooping to the level of Vulcan Arms.
Maybe they are using a licensed suppressor design from somebody who once had these groups T&E their product, but I would really like to see some evidence supporting all of these claims. Otherwise, it's bunk.
Magic_Salad0892
10-05-12, 12:17
http://www.tactical-life.com/online/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/spikes-st-compressor-d.jpg
My tax dollars are supporting Spikes Tactical? Damn I'm writing my congressman :p
... What the **** is he doing with that AFG?
sinlessorrow
10-05-12, 12:30
I've defended Spike's Tactical in the past, but this is absolutely unacceptable. They're basically stooping to the level of Vulcan Arms.
Maybe they are using a licensed suppressor design from somebody who once had these groups T&E their product, but I would really like to see some evidence supporting all of these claims. Otherwise, it's bunk.
Exactly, also remember the compressor is not jus a supressor, its the rifle i posted above, i think its an 8" pistol system
I've defended Spike's Tactical in the past, but this is absolutely unacceptable. They're basically stooping to the level of Vulcan Arms.
Maybe they are using a licensed suppressor design from somebody who once had these groups T&E their product, but I would really like to see some evidence supporting all of these claims. Otherwise, it's bunk.
I agree. I want some proof. That's a big claim unless they just had an ambassador running around to training sessions/classes letting guys try it out.
I've seen a photo of Travis Haley shooting one but that doesn't mean much. - Although it does support my hypothesis.
Thanks for bringing up some sources, sinlessorrow.
sinlessorrow
10-05-12, 13:17
Ive also seen spikes talk about how their gas tubes are so amazing they dont melt and can take so much heat the gas block will break before the tube melts. Im looking for it now.
Eta: i could make a whole spikes thread of quotes that make them look like vulcan arms..... Heres a few
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_51/339755__ARCHIVED_THREAD____What_do_you_think_of_the_new_Spikes_ST_Compressor_SBR.html&page=1
Scroll down till you see pics and bold font.
My fav part from Tom
The ST Compressor was designed to with stand sustained full-auto suppressed fire. Many components of the ST Compressor were tested until failure and then re-designed. During one test session we put 2600 rounds through the ST Compressor, all continuous full auto fire. The only thing that didn't survive was the low profile gas block, magpul ladder rail covers and MBUS sight that melted off the weapon. The suppressor was over 1k* the entire time. The Compressor is designed for serious abuse.
And another pot shot at suppressor companies
badazzar15
Spike's Tactical
Industry Partner
Joined: May 2006
FL, USA
Posts: 20252
Feedback: 100% (238)
Link To This Post
Posted: 3/23/2011 4:06:30 PM
Originally Posted By sweatpants:
Build one yourself that's a little toned down for A LOT cheaper.
Sure, anyone can build a suppressed AR15 their self, it just won't be the same.
The rifle and suppressor also won't have a Lifetime Warranty like the Compressor.
The first challenge of building your own would be to find a suppressor to hold up to the abuse. As a matter of fact, no suppressor company that I know of recommends their suppressors to be used on a barrel shorter than 10".
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q32/NCHornet/notagain.jpg
Everytime the word Spikes is mentioned on this forum it always ends the same. If you don't like the logo, or the name, or the type of aftershave the CEO uses, don't buy their products. But they must be doing something right to have a 16 week back log. Good or Bad they are selling a ton of rifles. I have Colt's, BCM, Larue and Spikes. I consider all four to be quality rifles and after thousands of rounds out of each of them, none of them have let me down. OH, and the Spikes was the most affordable. Now I will wait for the PM that says I am banned. :help:
sinlessorrow
10-10-12, 16:47
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q32/NCHornet/notagain.jpg
Everytime the word Spikes is mentioned on this forum it always ends the same. If you don't like the logo, or the name, or the type of aftershave the CEO uses, don't buy their products. But they must be doing something right to have a 16 week back log. Good or Bad they are selling a ton of rifles. I have Colt's, BCM, Larue and Spikes. I consider all four to be quality rifles and after thousands of rounds out of each of them, none of them have let me down. OH, and the Spikes was the most affordable. Now I will wait for the PM that says I am banned. :help:
Sales =\= quality, if it did mcdonalds would be the best food on the planet.
DiabhailGadhar
10-10-12, 19:17
Sales =\= quality, if it did mcdonalds would be the best food on the planet.
No but McDonalds is going to reliably be there when you need it....lol..
McDonalds is extremely reliable and consistent.
Apples to oranges, err burgers to rifles.. :sarcastic:
everyusernametaken
10-11-12, 00:21
And like Mcdonalds, Spike won't be receiving any business from me. In both cases, it makes no difference to me whether they have enough business as is to make my money irrelevant to their bottom line. I simply choose not to support them, when there are alternatives that suit my requirements and standards far better. That doesn't mean that others aren't free to do so, but I have yet to see anything concrete to prove that Spikes products are really competitive in the areas important to me. The argument that "mine has never failed in thousands of rounds" just doesn't cut it, when others like BCM provide such detailed information showing why I should believe in the quality of their products.
The way that I see the "image" stuff, like fake suppressors and comic book rollmarks, is that they seem to be targeting a juvenile market segment. Add to this the shady practices demonstrated with their "real" suppressor, and I have a hard time understanding why anyone in this group takes them seriously (I'm honestly not surprised that they're so popular on TOS). It seems like the only people typically defending them are those with a vested interest, i.e. owners of their products.
When I first posted this thread, I did not know much about Spikes. I just knew they sold ARs and that was that. I didn't know that they sold fake grenade launchers and fake cans and shit like that (pretty gay if you ask me).
I probably would not buy from them either, but at least their rifle seems to work with crap ammo. If anything, the video in my OP is an argument against the AR reliability myth.
I have to say, I find it ironic that on the one hand I see a lot of posts from people who "couldn't care less if it was rollmarked Daffy Duck, as long as it does what it's supposed to", yet everybody rails Spikes and says they would not buy a rifle from them because of their offering fake launchers/cans...all the while dismissing the real world evidence that the rifles do what they are supposed to.
I have to say, I find it ironic that on the one hand I see a lot of posts from people who "couldn't care less if it was rollmarked Daffy Duck, as long as it does what it's supposed to", yet everybody rails Spikes and says they would not buy a rifle from them because of their offering fake launchers/cans...all the while dismissing the real world evidence that the rifles do what they are supposed to.
I can't say that I really want to go out and buy a fake can or launcher. It just isn't my thing. However if someone else wants to spend their money on it than that is their choice. I also probably wouldn't buy a Spikes when there are other options that are in my mind reasonably priced. With that being said the video was impressive.
I have to say, I find it ironic that on the one hand I see a lot of posts from people who "couldn't care less if it was rollmarked Daffy Duck, as long as it does what it's supposed to", yet everybody rails Spikes and says they would not buy a rifle from them because of their offering fake launchers/cans...all the while dismissing the real world evidence that the rifles do what they are supposed to.
If you're referring to my post above, I already have designs on a Bravo upper (which I need to pay off).
I wouldn't bash someone for using Spikes, but I still think that fake launchers are gay. But like I said earlier in this thread, it's cool if they sell them because obviously someone is buying them.
I doubt the folks with the fake cans and such actually shoot their rifles very often.
I'll never understand buying something like that but some people would rather look at their rifles and pretend than get out and shoot.
I'd rather have a 20 round box of pmc than a fake anything.
I'd rather have a 20 round box of pmc than a fake anything.
Ditto.
Reminds me of the ricers with their big non-functional wings and racing stickers on their 150 hp econoboxes playing fast and furious
But if the same company that makes all the look-fast parts for those ricers also makes reputable, quality, legitimate parts for my Z28, I might just buy those parts.
They're the Teenage Son of the firearms industry: it's possible to love him for his own sake, while still being able to sensibly acknowledge the fact that he's a moody, annoying, surly, walking hard-on that eats all the time, lies, is probably stoned, and will continue to be that way until he grows the hell out of it.
Y'know, the whole picture, not the ONE thing that one finds ironic. Said Teenage Son eventually does grow out of it.....or he dies as a result of one, or combination, of the aforementioned factors of his existence.
All that said, if we can keep things relevant to whatever "test" is supposedly the long pole in the tent regarding this thread, and less of a oft-repeated less-filling/tastes great haggle, we can keep it going. That means some folks that are dying to talk about strictly about the company are gonna have to find some way to keep from hitting the Submit button.
I doubt the folks with the fake cans and such actually shoot their rifles very often.
I'll never understand buying something like that but some people would rather look at their rifles and pretend than get out and shoot.
There's a TON of money to be made if you go after the retard market.
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