View Full Version : Muzzle Brake stuck halfway on the threads?
My woes with the MWS platform continue... after buying a $450 LMT barrel from someone only to have it fall out during transit (and the seller won't take responsibility) I ended up buying a brand new LMT SS barrel to have ADCO cut down to 16".
Well I finally got my $750 barrel ($1200 if you count my earlier loss!!!) from ADCO today and I try to thread on my brand new Surefire MB762K-211C brake and it only threads on about 10%. I read around and people say to just crank it down and thread it on with the wrench. I manage to get it all the way to measure how many shims I'll need and then I removed it. I put on the shims and started putting it back on.. got about halfway and the ****ing thing is stuck. I can't move backwards or forwards. It feels like the threads the barrel got deformed and now it won't back up or move forward. The barrel is spinning in my vice now.. must be giving it 60-70lbs of torque before the barrel starts to spin.
Any ideas on how to proceed? (There's no gunsmiths on island where I live.) and shipping costs $20 each way cause the barrel weighs 10lbs.
Have you tried some penetrating oil? Any muzzle device I have put on always threaded on with finger pressure. When something like this won't finger tighten that tells me the threads have an incompatibility. Time to see why. Did you try other muzzle devices you had laying around, like an A2? Did you use anti-seize on the threads? In the end you might have cut the brake off.
Sounds like galling to me, did you lube the threads before you put it on? You may have buggered up the threads, so be careful. We deal with stainless steel galling at work all the time.
http://www.estainlesssteel.com/gallingofstainless.html
Irregardless of cost, notify ADCO about the problem and see what they recommend. I'm not even going to bother asking if you noticed anything going south when you attempted the install. Posting a photo might satisfy our curiosity concerning the threads but it's already "water under the bridge".
So after googling the MB762K-211C I found its made of stainless steel. Stainless on Stainless hardware with torque and dry threads = bad no no.
Sounds like you seized your muzzle brake onto your barrel via thread galling. I would send it out to ADCO and see what they can do (probably not much).
You may have ruined that section of barrel and your muzzle brake. Best case If they cant get it off would be they could cut it down to 14.5 and you can buy a new muzzle brake.
-J
JBecker 72
09-29-12, 12:29
Who the **** told you to just "crank it down" after you only got a thread or 2 in and it stopped? Just because someone said something on the internet doesn't mean it's good advice.
Regarding where to go from here, some penetrating oil and heat will probably allow you to get it back off, but I'm pretty confident the threads on both the barrel and brake are toast based on your description of the situation.
Once you get it off, check to see which threads are messed up using known good muzzle device and barrel threads.
Sometimes threads can be cleaned up and they fit better.
The good news is you might be able to shave some weight off of that barrel. Ten pounds is nuts, but probably a bit of exaggeration, since you'd end up with a 20lb rifle.
The sayin "if it won't fit, force it" should not have been applied here. Parts with matching threads should go together with little effort. If not, there's a problem. Stop what you're doing before it gets expensive.
Sorry you had to find out the hard way.
ICANHITHIMMAN
09-29-12, 15:15
It should have spun right on, if it would not go you should NOT have forced it. Pull it off and chase the threads on both ends.
Well there were a couple threads on this site where the person said the flash hider wouldn't thread on by hand and they were advised to put the barrel in a vice and thread it on with a wrench.
I didn't have to use any crazy amounts of torque the first time, the second time it started getting harder around halfway and thats when it got stuck, won't back out or go on any further.
Suwannee Tim
09-29-12, 21:38
Sad to say buckjay but you have screwed up the heretofore unscewed up component which was either the barrel or muzzle device. When something won't go it is almost always a bad idea to force it. Maybe Adco will make it good. Maybe not given it's current condition. Why can't you get any satisfaction from the seller of the LMT barrel or the freight company? Did you pay with a credit card? You could put it in dispute.
........I didn't have to use any crazy amounts of torque the first time, the second time it started getting harder around halfway and thats when it got stuck, won't back out or go on any further.
That's how threads gall up, a little at a time at first then suddenly it's too late.......
Sad to say buckjay but you have screwed up the heretofore unscewed up component which was either the barrel or muzzle device. When something won't go it is almost always a bad idea to force it. Maybe Adco will make it good. Maybe not given it's current condition. Why can't you get any satisfaction from the seller of the LMT barrel or the freight company? Did you pay with a credit card? You could put it in dispute.
That's how threads gall up, a little at a time at first then suddenly it's too late.......
So if its galled, its ****ed? I can't have the barrel cut any shorter as its a rifle length gas system and its already 16".
Regarding my other barrel.. I bought it from someone on this forum. I sent him a money order, which he cashed, and he sent me the "barrel". What arrived at my door was an empty box and he said I'm on my own. Insurance was never discussed. Basically have to eat shit on this one.
Did you buy it from a member on here ?
I think sending the barrel to ADCO at this point might be the best option.
Yep a member on this forum (JeepDriver).
Anyways, ADCO has been awesome and offered to fix it for me so off it goes.
I hope they can get it right for you with no further issues.
So if its galled, its ****ed? I can't have the barrel cut any shorter as its a rifle length gas system and its already 16".
Regarding my other barrel.. I bought it from someone on this forum. I sent him a money order, which he cashed, and he sent me the "barrel". What arrived at my door was an empty box and he said I'm on my own. Insurance was never discussed. Basically have to eat shit on this one.
Was there a whole in the box or was it still sealed? You can still take action to rectify the situation.
I did this to my 16" BCM BFH barrel. I know -- stupid me. My flash hider got stripped on. I actually sent it back to BCM and they attempted to remove it for me but said the threads were stripped and they didn't want to be liable, which is pretty understandable I guess.
You'll have to cut it off with a Dremel then just re-thread the barrel yourself. You can chase the threads for maybe $15-$20 spent on the tools.
Wormydog1724
09-30-12, 09:44
Like my dad always says 'if it won't go, force it. If it breaks, it needed fixin' anyways.'
Something was wrong on the barrel or the brake, and now you know.
Good on Adco for fixing the problem and hope you get the problem resolved between you and the other guy here.
Suwannee Tim
09-30-12, 12:53
You are having a real run of bad luck buckjay. I hope things start working better for you soon.
Was there a whole in the box or was it still sealed? You can still take action to rectify the situation.
The tape was undone with a note saying the post office resealed the package (with nothing inside it).
So if its galled, its ****ed? I can't have the barrel cut any shorter as its a rifle length gas system and its already 16".
Regarding my other barrel.. I bought it from someone on this forum. I sent him a money order, which he cashed, and he sent me the "barrel". What arrived at my door was an empty box and he said I'm on my own. Insurance was never discussed. Basically have to eat shit on this one.
On Time, On Target here dude you're screwed.
TangoSauce
09-30-12, 18:38
So if its galled, its ****ed? I can't have the barrel cut any shorter as its a rifle length gas system and its already 16".
Sorry to hear about your bad luck buckjay, especially since you're a solid guy and don't deserve to be dicked over.
As far as the gas system, can't you shorten the gas system IF that's the absolute last resort given your situation. I believe it's okay to shorten gas systems, but lengthening them is not good. I'm sure figuring out the threading problem will be best.
The tape was undone with a note saying the post office resealed the package (with nothing inside it).
Can they determine if there was anything in the package when sent. If so they should be responsible insurance or not. They accepted the package..someone working for the company stole it. They are responsible.
Reagans Rascals
09-30-12, 19:18
put the entire thing in the freezer.... let it sit there for about 4-5 hours.... and then use a heat gun/blow dryer/MAP torch and heat up the muzzle device, just the muzzle device and then break it loose.... I'd then follow that up with a 5/8x24 die just to clean up the threads....
I've done this process with my AK when the threads were cross threaded because the asshole working on it didn't know it was LEFT HAND....
It should work... but I'm not sure how being SS factors in so go easy...
listen man.... I would at least exhaust all "free" options at this point.... before I go sending it off to once again get cut... this process is free and has a high probability of working... without the need for further cutting... however; if by some chance it doesn't work... no harm done, you can still have it cut later...
freeze the whole setup to shrink it all down.... then while its still cold and "shrank down"... heat up just the muzzle device... basically expanding it off the threads of the barrel... even if its just a little... every little bit helps.. and even the slightest clearance could help break it loose.... then just clean up the damaged threads on the barrel with a die... go slow with the whole process and it should work out just fine...
then just remember to lube up the threads before you re-install it...
Sorry about the bad luck Buck. I can relate, I posted a thread last week about my woes trying to remove a low pro gas block that was red loctited by BCM. I had to drill out the set screws to remove it, but I was to embarrassed to actually post that I actually ended up drilling about 1/8" into my barrel so I had to dump it in the recycle and buy a new one due to my lack of machining skill...
We had issues with stainless galling at a previous job and had to scrap about $9,000 in prototype parts because of it. Basically the friction can create enough heat to weld the metals together!! Galling is a localized issue, meaning it can happen on only a very small section of the thread and cause an issue. It can appear with little or no warning.
Here's an article from fastenal about it http://www.fastenal.com/content/feds/pdf/Article%20-%20Galling.pdf
Hopefully you haven't gone that far yet, but I'd say the brake and barrel are definitely galled because they're fine threads and tend to have a rough finish and both stainless.
I suggest calling adco and see if they'll help you out. If not, I hope you know a mechanic or machinist. If you have to tackle this yourself, try spraying it with pb oil and let is sit overnight. Then drop it in a freezer for a few hours (a machine shop might have a cryo freezer which would b even better - or you might try to get dry ice and surround the barrel with dry ice in a cooler. Just make sure it's not air tight. ). Then take it out, clamp it up and immediately hit the brake with a torch and get it cherry hot and then use an impact gun with a crow foot (or wrench and a long pipe) and try to break it loose. You'll probably scrap the brake, but it will be off. If that doesn't work, it's permanent joint...
Next time lube the threads with a little oil or wheel bearing grease. The threads will push it out as you tighten it up.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.
The tape was undone with a note saying the post office resealed the package (with nothing inside it).
What post office was the note from? Was it the originating PO, or a depot along the way? Personally, I think you got ripped off. The "empty box" is a very common fraud technique and I would take action.
A barrel doesn't just vanish. When the package was dropped off it would have to be weighed to calculate the shipping price or to verify pre paid shipping limits. Check that first, it will be part of tracking info.
...I had to drill out the set screws to remove it, but I was to embarrassed to actually post that I actually ended up drilling about 1/8" into my barrel so I had to dump it in the recycle and buy a new one due to my lack of machining skill...
Dude! Go get the barrel out of the trash! I bet it's still good.
I sold a bunch of 1911 and AR stuff I had laying around last year and I got beat 5 or 6 times by either the post office, or the buyers scammed me.
They all said they received empty boxes/packages. Stuff like 5 1911 mags, 2 1911 mags, Troy rear sight, kydex holster, Colt carry handle and something else I can't remember.
I did not ask the buyers if they wanted to purchase insurance, nor did I purchase any. As the shipper, I accepted liability since I ultimately shipped without insurance.
I refunded their money because I didn't have any proof that the items were in fact packaged at the time of shipping. I felt that the burden of proof was on me since I had advertised items for sale via mail order (internet), and I had electronically received payment.
I think the guy needs to man up and refund your money even if the barrel was in the package when he shipped it.
TangoSauce
09-30-12, 21:40
I sold a bunch of 1911 and AR stuff I had laying around last year and I got beat 5 or 6 times by either the post office, or the buyers scammed me.
They all said they received empty boxes/packages. Stuff like 5 1911 mags, 2 1911 mags, Troy rear sight, kydex holster, Colt carry handle and something else I can't remember.
I did not ask the buyers if they wanted to purchase insurance, nor did I purchase any. As the shipper, I accepted liability since I ultimately shipped without insurance.
I refunded their money because I didn't have any proof that the items were in fact packaged at the time of shipping. I felt that the burden of proof was on me since I had advertised items for sale via mail order (internet), and I had electronically received payment.
I think the guy needs to man up and refund your money even if the barrel was in the package when he shipped it.
I've had one incident where I shipped, and they said they never received it. Typically now I will at very minimum have scan confirmation, but insurance is worth it on high dollar items. I split the costs with the buyer. Not sure if he ripped me off, or we both ate half the price. Definitely worth the consideration for further transactions.
I sold a bunch of 1911 and AR stuff I had laying around last year and I got beat 5 or 6 times by either the post office, or the buyers scammed me.
They all said they received empty boxes/packages. Stuff like 5 1911 mags, 2 1911 mags, Troy rear sight, kydex holster, Colt carry handle and something else I can't remember.
I did not ask the buyers if they wanted to purchase insurance, nor did I purchase any. As the shipper, I accepted liability since I ultimately shipped without insurance.
I refunded their money because I didn't have any proof that the items were in fact packaged at the time of shipping. I felt that the burden of proof was on me since I had advertised items for sale via mail order (internet), and I had electronically received payment.
I think the guy needs to man up and refund your money even if the barrel was in the package when he shipped it.
To bad most sellers are not that way. I have never had a problem with something i have shipped, but have had problems with stuff i purchased. They would not do anything. I ended up getting money back through credit card. If the seller does not take responsibility put what happened in your Sig sign along with bad feedback. Everybody reads Sig lines, and they will see what type of seller they are. It might even get the guy to fix the problem if he values his reputation. I insure everything unless Im giving it away.
Do not let ups tell you there was nothing in it. Tell them there had to be based on shipping charges, and let them know they have a responsibility to reimburse you for what you are missing. Talk to the person as high up as you can go, and make sure they know your not going to let them get away with it.
If you manage to get the brake off (should be possible with the advice already posted) and the barrel threads are too badly damaged to re-tap and thread a new brake on, you can always have the end of the barrel turned down the right diameter for 1/2x28 threads. There are plenty of 1/2x28 to 5/8x24 step adapters to get you back up to the right thread.
I would raise hell with the PO and seller until I got to the bottom of how the barrel went missing. The time to be nice has passed.
nineteenkilo
10-01-12, 15:09
The cold/hot trick as mentioned by RR a few posts up works wonders. As an addition to the aforementioned chasing with a tap, if it isn't terrible, you might try just using the proper thread file to clean up any bad spots. Lubricate before reinstallation.
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