View Full Version : The US IWI Tavor (pics)
MilitaryArms
09-30-12, 00:06
http://www.intempusphotography.com/photos/i-5J97vpw/0/L/i-5J97vpw-L.jpg
http://www.intempusphotography.com/photos/i-nVzBcBD/0/L/i-nVzBcBD-L.jpg
Due around May.
Price: $1900 MSRP
What were your first impressions?
MilitaryArms
09-30-12, 00:17
I did get to shoot it.
It takes a slightly different approach to the concept than other designs such as the AUG. It also has some similarities.
The ejection can be changes from right to left hand side. This is nothing new.
The charging handle can be moved to either side of the rifle (AUG can't do this).
When it's fired from the left side (right hand configuration) the brass deflector sends spent cases forward. There is no chance of it hitting your face.
Mag release is a trigger like device in front of the magazine. It's very easy to use. My concern is that a sling or mag pouch might cause an unintentional mag release, but I've not confirmed this as I had neither a sling or chest rig available.
The bolt release is brilliantly simple. Push the new mag in, push up with your thumb (already in position) and boom, the bolt rides home with a new round.
The trigger pack is tiny and sits just behind the magazine well. It can stay in the rifle when you remove the bolt. It requires two pins to be pushed out (captive) to drop the trigger pack.
The flip up sights are integrated into the 1913 rail. The front sight has tritium.
The front handguard is removable and rails can be installed.
It will be released as a 5.56 but a 9mm conversion kit will be immediately available as well. You can change calibers yourself.
The barrel is a quick release barrel.
It will have QD mounts front and rear and on both sides.
7.2lbs empty.
Decent trigger, not your typical bullpup mushy, creepy trigger. Not a match trigger, but a solid military trigger.
Recoil is about what you would expect. The balance of the rifle is nearly perfect, you can keep this rifle shouldered and in the ready position much longer and more comfortably than a rifle like the M4.
Overall, I'm impressed. I think it has the potential to be the best bullpup on the market. I'll reserve judgement until I get my own copy to bang around on.
Due around May. Price is said to be $1900 MSRP. Expect a street price to be less than that once the dust settles from the initial release.
Plant is up and running, employees hired, production starting. Just waiting on the ATF and some licensing issues.
I want, any idea who will be distributing these rifles?
Overall, I'm impressed. I think it has the potential to be the best bullpup on the market. I'll reserve judgement until I get my own copy to bang around on.
Glad to hear you liked it. We really like them up here in Canada, and we're cautiously optimistic that we'll see an expanded market for accessories going forward.
MilitaryArms
09-30-12, 00:56
I want, any idea who will be distributing these rifles?
All the big US distributors will have them from what I was told. The question will be how many can they make a month and how back ordered will everyone be?
SmokinGunMP5
09-30-12, 00:56
Fugly.
No chance I'll ever buy it unless it was extremely fun to shoot.
MilitaryArms
09-30-12, 00:57
Glad to hear you liked it. We really like them up here in Canada, and we're cautiously optimistic that we'll see an expanded market for accessories going forward.
I've been waiting for this for a very long time. I finally got to shoot it today. I do like it quite a bit.
I've been waiting for this for a very long time. I finally got to shoot it today. I do like it quite a bit.
I really like the Tavor, but of course I'm somewhat biased. The two biggest complaints that people in Canada have had with the Tavor are the LOP (for some) and the trigger (there's actually a spring you can remove in the trigger unit that softens it up a bit). Our version comes with an 18.5" barrel which is not as accurate as the 16" one. A few of us have the factory IWI CTAR 15", which is an absolute riot and very accurate to boot.
The great news for the US Tavor is that you're getting a polished design care of your neighbours to the north (think of us as your resident beta testers :)). The flat top is actually the second generation, which also features a redesigned bolt and firing pin that addressed an issue with slam-fires when using commercial grade primers.
We're looking forward to the X95.
wild_wild_wes
09-30-12, 03:43
Where is this rifle manufactured?
BUIS look flimsy.
BUIS look flimsy.
The BUIS is fine, but since they collapse into the rail you can easily mount a set of Troy (etc.) flip-downs.
BUIS look flimsy.
The BUIS is fine, but since they collapse into the rail you can easily mount a set of Troy (etc.) flip-downs over top if you want.
MilitaryArms
09-30-12, 10:24
Where is this rifle manufactured?
BUIS look flimsy.
Fortunately they're optional. They tuck down into the rail and allow you to use any backup sights you choose that are 1913 compatible.
signkutter
09-30-12, 11:38
http://www.intempusphotography.com/photos/i-5J97vpw/0/L/i-5J97vpw-L.jpg
http://www.intempusphotography.com/photos/i-nVzBcBD/0/L/i-nVzBcBD-L.jpg
Due around May.
Price: $1900 MSRP
Gawdammit... there goes another 2k.. I just bought another AUG ...but it will be next year ...time to start rationalizing
I am excited to see this come about. As a guy who ran an issued AUG-P bullpup for several years all I can say is until you've spent some time behind one you just don't understand the advantages the platform brings to the game. I figured these would ring in around 2K, I am hoping that there might be a packaged optic too. May isn't really that far away and I am anxious to see this hit shelves.
Fortunately they're optional. They tuck down into the rail and allow you to use any backup sights you choose that are 1913 compatible.
Different model, same concept.
http://img11.photobucket.com/albums/v34/pretorian669/TAVOR%202004/TC_BUIS1.jpg
i highly doubt many people will add this to their collection for $1900 :suicide:
MilitaryArms
09-30-12, 14:58
i highly doubt many people will add this to their collection for $1900 :suicide:
I don't think they'll be able to make them fast enough.
MountainRaven
09-30-12, 15:11
I don't think they'll be able to make them fast enough.
I agree.
When you consider that other quality non-AR, non-AK options out there are $2000+ on the shelf (SCAR, FS2000, AUG A3)... and none of them have the cachet of being the new Israeli hotness. And the SCAR 17S is nearly $3000 and FN still can't keep up on them.
Going to be selling fast enough to keep the Canadian shelves on back order for a while.
I just think it's great the people are working to make available things like this and the Steyr AUG. I don't think there will be a problem selling the Tavor.
i highly doubt many people will add this to their collection for $1900 :suicide:
I highly doubt you are correct.
How many people own more than one $1000+ AR?
How many people own $1500+ AR's?
How many people own multiple $500+ pistols?
How many people own 5.56 rifles with a $2000+ cost?
Now add optics, accessories, and stamps to the above guns and you can easily hit $3,000+ for a single AR.
This isn't even including the cost of large caliber semi autos or quality bolt guns...
You talk about adding this to a collection, this IS a rifle to add to a collection.
If you decide to add an umarex pistol to your "collection" instead of this, great... that means more availability for the rest of us.:D
I highly doubt you are correct.
How many people own more than one $1000+ AR?
How many people own $1500+ AR's?
How many people own multiple $500+ pistols?
How many people own 5.56 rifles with a $2000+ cost?
Now add optics, accessories, and stamps to the above guns and you can easily hit $3,000+ for a single AR.
This isn't even including the cost of large caliber semi autos or quality bolt guns...
You talk about adding this to a collection, this IS a rifle to add to a collection.
If you decide to add an umarex pistol to your "collection" instead of this, great... that means more availability for the rest of us.:D
I agree. This is a great price point. Would I like it to be cheaper? Of course. But it is not going to happen. A Tavor is definitely in my future. It is a must have addition to my reference collection.
I suspect they will sell every Tavor they can produce.
I agree. This is a great price point.
Most of us paid in excess of $3,000USD in Canada for ours. Lead times from the time we ordered were about 6 months, it took almost a year for IWI to release a modified bolt - and replacement parts are not easy to source.
I'm not saying there's not a lot to like with a $1,900USD price tag and being nationally-manufactured, just that there's an awful lot to like. :D
The Tavor isn't for everyone - it's either a "love it" or "hate it" kind of impression, and AR purists are usually the worst when it comes to finding fault and nitpicking. However, if you love black rifles and the fun of trying out new toys - this is truly one to add to your collection.
Larry Vickers
09-30-12, 18:34
I shot one last week in Canada and I like it; it is a Bullpup of course and the USA is not the most Bullpup friendly country but from the limited time I had with one I would say it is one of the best of its type on the market today
Looking forward to seeing them here in the states
LAV
I like the looks of the Tavor, I think it will sell, especially if the price comes down a little. I have seen pics of the IDF model and I think I saw a fold into the hand guard bipod. I am probably wrong. I will be eagerly reading the first user reports here in the US.
Should have the 18" barrel. This is going to be another screwed up assault rifle on the US market, that is going to follow all the SCAR, ACR, SG556, HK MR556, Beryl, etc
Littlelebowski
09-30-12, 19:00
Should have the 18" barrel. This is going to be another screwed up assault rifle on the US market, that is going to follow all the SCAR, ACR, SG556, HK MR556, Beryl, etc
Have you ever considered going into grief counseling or suicide prevention work?
Should have the 18" barrel. This is going to be another screwed up assault rifle on the US market, that is going to follow all the SCAR, ACR, SG556, HK MR556, Beryl, etc
The 18.5" barrel isn't anywhere near as accurate as the shorter 15" CTAR version that we also have. Take that for what it's worth, but the 16" is probably a good choice for the US version.
i highly doubt many people will add this to their collection for $1900 :suicide:
I doubt your understanding of the firearms industry and niche markets.
As far as the Tavor goes, I really hope this actually makes it across the finish line in its current form and price point. I have my doubts, but am hopeful that I am wrong. It looks like it could be an outstanding pup at a great price. If proven reliable, it would make an excellent truck gun with a Micro, SF and VCAS on it.
I don't know a lot about bullpups, but in my experience they do offer a very compact shooting package without sacrificing barrel length. It does look like achieving an ambi WML solution might be difficult... MA, any thoughts on that?
Should have the 18" barrel. This is going to be another screwed up assault rifle on the US market, that is going to follow all the SCAR, ACR, SG556, HK MR556, Beryl, etc
No offense... but LOL.
I love bullpups and the Tavor is one that I have been waiting for for quite a while. A compact, reliable rifle is what I prefer for work (currently using an A3 AUG, but would love to use a Tavor).
Who will manufacture the barrel and are its specs identical to the military production? I ask since the AUG A3 is a major competitor and is using a very nice FN barrel.
Looks great, I've been waiting for these things for years. I'm definitely looking forward to getting my hands on one.
Due around May. Price: $1900 MSRP
Does it play nice with PMAGs?
Does it play nice with PMAGs?
Mine takes everything, so I imagine the US version would as well.
Magic_Salad0892
09-30-12, 22:40
Have you ever considered going into grief counseling or suicide prevention work?
I have, and will be trying to counsel Scottryan about imported assault rifles, and markm about LWRCi.
I will post results here for lols.
If you'd like some counseling for your feelings about SIG, toss me a PM.
Our convorsations will be confidential, but your progress reports will be posted. :neo:
I have, and will be trying to counsel Scottryan about imported assault rifles, and markm about LWRCi.
I will post results here for lols.
If you'd like some counseling for your feelings about SIG, toss me a PM.
Our conversations will be confidential, but your progress reports will be posted. :neo:
Just put Colt stickers on these foreign guns and tell SR that they're prototypes, made to Colt's TDP. That might help.
Looks like this will be my first bullpup rifle! I better save up for it now and stash the money away.
Question for those who shot both Tavor and FN2000: How the they compare recoil wise? Is the tapped short stroke piston of the FN smoother than the long stroke piston of the Tavor?
I am pretty interested in buying one. Will certainly wait 6-12m post release to see some field reports and see the price come down.
Question for those who shot both Tavor and FN2000: How the they compare recoil wise? Is the tapped short stroke piston of the FN smoother than the long stroke piston of the Tavor?
Don't have a Tavor but do shoot a FS2000. I'm thinking recoil impulse has a lot more to do with total weight and bolt carrier weight, not so much the piston design. The bullet is already gone by the time the bolt carrier is moving anyway.
My wife's light AR has a sharper recoil pulse than the FS2000, which is about .5lb heavier.
H
i highly doubt many people will add this to their collection for $1900 :suicide:
There's always the chance it retails for a shade less. Consider, as others have pointed out, how much the SCAR goes for, the ACR goes for just under that, upper-echelon AR's go for above that, piston AR's tend to go for above that. Plus you have an Israeli tried-and-true weapon with a ten year field history in one of the most inhospitable environments and no small measure of hype.
I dunno, I think it'll sell.
-Cheers
bondmid003
10-01-12, 20:10
The bottom line for all the haters, is that whether you like the weapon or not another rifle on the market is a good thing. It means more choices for the consumer and the antis aren't winning.
I just bought an AUG A3 from Pete so it will be awhile before I buy another gun...but I want :D
I just bought an AUG A3 from Pete so it will be awhile before I buy another gun...but I want :D
The AUG A3 is the one i want next. Hopefully we can get it approved for export/import...
Never been a big fan of bullpups, but this is one I will have to get my hands on :). Can't wait for it to come to market.
Very nice. It is exciting to see these rifles are going to be available here. I'm looking forward to hearing more about them.
Don't have a Tavor but do shoot a FS2000. I'm thinking recoil impulse has a lot more to do with total weight and bolt carrier weight, not so much the piston design. The bullet is already gone by the time the bolt carrier is moving anyway.
My wife's light AR has a sharper recoil pulse than the FS2000, which is about .5lb heavier.
H
Well, in a long stroke piston, the piston is attatched to the bolt carrier. I think that everything being equal, a bullpup should have a bit less felt recoil than a traditional design since it's tend to have better balance.
So I would love a comparison between bullpups, would be interesting to compare the blowback of Famas, short stroke of the FN and long stroke of Tavor.
Magic_Salad0892
10-02-12, 02:17
Well, in a long stroke piston, the piston is attatched to the bolt carrier. I think that everything being equal, a bullpup should have a bit less felt recoil than a traditional design since it's tend to have better balance.
So I would love a comparison between bullpups, would be interesting to compare the blowback of Famas, short stroke of the FN and long stroke of Tavor.
It always seemed to me that the FAMAS had the best gas system design possible for a bullpup, it was like the bullpup equivelent of a G3. I'm not sure why nobody has used either gas system since.
Larry Vickers
10-02-12, 06:35
Well I see a future Bullpup comparison for TacTV;
Steyr AUG
SA 80
FAMAS
F 2000
Tavor
This may be a show for season three - who knows?
I've got 4 of the 5 - waiting for one.....
LAV
Title the episode "Pups on Patrol". :p
Well I see a future Bullpup comparison for TacTV;
Steyr AUG
SA 80
FAMAS
F 2000
Tavor
This may be a show for season three - who knows?
I've got 4 of the 5 - waiting for one.....
LAV
Would make a GREAT episode! Outstanding show...please keep up the excellent work!
Larry,
Don't forget the SAR21.
I love it's long dwell time and slow rate of fire. VERY unique weapon, inside and out.
ESK
http://m4carbine.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=13703&stc=1&d=1349188934
Well I see a future Bullpup comparison for TacTV;
Steyr AUG
SA 80
FAMAS
F 2000
Tavor
This may be a show for season three - who knows?
I've got 4 of the 5 - waiting for one.....
LAV
Larry Vickers
10-02-12, 10:07
Good point !! I'll add the SAR 21 to the list
That makes 5 I have and waiting on number 6....
LAV
Well I see a future Bullpup comparison for TacTV
You could maybe get two shows out of it: one T&E comparison show and one about running a bullpup. Hell, make it three by adding a pro/con between conventional and bullpup.
Good point !! I'll add the SAR 21 to the list
That makes 5 I have and waiting on number 6....
If you wait long enough, we should have bulpup version of MSBS-5,56 ready. Say 2-3 years ;)
Magic_Salad0892
10-02-12, 19:08
What're the internal differences between the SAR-21 and the AUG?
They look more or less the same.
It always seemed to me that the FAMAS had the best gas system design possible for a bullpup, it was like the bullpup equivelent of a G3. I'm not sure why nobody has used either gas system since.
Well, the Famas had a very high rate of fire of 950 rounds per minute, that was an issue since many consider the 600-700rpm to be the ideal.
Well, the Famas had a very high rate of fire of 950 rounds per minute, that was an issue since many consider the 600-700rpm to be the ideal.
Plus Famas delayed blowback system (no gas system in Famas) is, like HK G3, HK33, etc., very sensitive to ammo used. Actually it works well with one specific ammo (that is why French are stuck with M193). Gas systems either "DI" in AR15 or op-rod systems like in G36 or HK416 are not so ammo sensitive.
Living in a state that does not allow SBR these do intrigue me. I imagine due to the length, I may still have to register it as a pistol but that has bennifets also. I am looking forward to the release.
bondmid003
10-04-12, 12:50
Where do you live? In KA rifles have to have an OAL above 30" I believe. To get around this, most folks attach a fake can to extend the OAL.
Someone else feel free to chime in but I don't believe you'd ever be able to register an AUG or Tavor as a pistol because of the stock.
Now that I think about it, its not what you want to register it as but what the dealer sells it to you as. I.e. AR and AK pistols are sold as pistols sans stock from the dealer and they are noted in the books as such. I don't think you'll find a dealer that would be willing to sell an AUG or Tavor as a pistol.
I am extremely interested in this...
I have a Prosthetic left shoulder (I am right handed)...due to this, the further away from my body I get my left hand, the more pain I experience
I compensate for this now by using mostly SBRs....I've considered buying a bullpup for a while now, and this may be it..,,
bondmid003
10-11-12, 02:18
Trio, you might also want to look into the AUG A3. It's out now and Pete is offering great deals on them. Just my two cents to at least shoot an AUG so you can make a comparison once you can try out a Tavor
IWI TAVOR SAR 556NATO 16.5" 30RD BLK
Availability: Allocated
IWI TAVOR LH 556NATO 16.5" 30RD BLK LEFT HAND VERSION?
Availability: 0 units
IWI TAVOR SAR 556NATO 18" 30RD BLK Black colored stock
Availability: Allocated
IWI TAVOR SAR 556NATO 16.5" 30RD FDE FDE Colored stock
Availability: Allocated
IWI TAVOR SAR 556NATO 18" 30RD FDE FDE Colored stock
Availability: Allocated
IWI TAVOR SAR IDF 556NATO 16.5" 30RD Supposed semi auto clone of what IDF is issued to include issued optic as well???
Availability: Allocated
IWI TAVOR SAR CONV KIT 545X39 1-30RD 5.45x39 conversion kit
Availability: Allocated
IWI TAV0R SAR CONV KIT 9MM 1-32RD 9mm conversion kit
Availability: Allocated
IWI TAVOR SAR 556NATO 16.5" 30RD BLK...
Link?
Link?
Anyone who can log into the major distributors can see the same information. TOS had some screen captures that someone was hosting, but were taken down.
http://www.rsrgroup.com/catalog/search?c=search&m=index&manufacturer=IWI
Clicking on the link will provide links to the individual models which will give you more detailed information.
IWI TAVOR SAR IDF 556NATO 16.5" 30RD Supposed semi auto clone of what IDF is issued to include issued optic as well???
Availability: Allocated
How can that be? Real tavors come with a 15" or 18" barrel.
How can that be? Real tavors come with a 15" or 18" barrel.
We both know that you know that a 15" barrel is Title II.
You have your coveted 18" barrel. If you want the IDF model, you can send your barrel out to get chopped...
Public info from RSR: http://www.rsrgroup.com/catalog/search?c=search&m=index&manufacturer=IWI
16.5" BLACK
http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss12/maleantemalandro/tavor1.jpg
16.5" BLACK LEFT HAND
http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss12/maleantemalandro/tavor2.jpg
16.5" FDE
http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss12/maleantemalandro/tavor4.jpg
16.5" BLACK IDF model with Meprolight M21 optic
http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss12/maleantemalandro/tavor6.jpg
18" BLACK
http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss12/maleantemalandro/tavor3.jpg
18" FDE
http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss12/maleantemalandro/tavor5.jpg
5.45x39 Conversion Kit 30rd mag 16.5" barrel
http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss12/maleantemalandro/tavor7.jpg
9MM Conversion Kit 32rd mag 17" barrel
http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss12/maleantemalandro/tavor8.jpg
We both know that you know that a 15" barrel is Title II.
You have your coveted 18" barrel. If you want the IDF model, you can send your barrel out to get chopped...
The IDF model should come with the IDF optic in the 18" barrel.
That would be a real IDF model, not a 16.5" barrel.
maddawg5777
11-25-12, 21:42
Im interested, although I will give it at least 18 months to work the bugs out and see some decent round counts put through them. Also by then hopefully the price will level out.
MountainRaven
11-25-12, 23:25
The IDF model should come with the IDF optic in the 18" barrel.
That would be a real IDF model, not a 16.5" barrel.
So what you're saying is that there's as much difference between the commercial TAR-21 and the military version as there is between the 6920 and the M4? Only in the direction of shorter, rather than longer?
Neat!
So what you're saying is that there's as much difference between the commercial TAR-21 and the military version as there is between the 6920 and the M4? Only in the direction of shorter, rather than longer?
Neat!
What I am saying is IMI can make a 18" IDF version and be authentically correct and not use the 16.5" version.
Do you have the prices for them yet?
Very interesting that they are offering a 5.45 conversion right out of the gate.
TV-PressPass
11-26-12, 14:36
Here's the pics!
TAVOR SAR 16.5" Barrel in Flat Dark Earth
http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc79/kaz53_photos/IWI%20US%20-%20Tavor%20SAR%20-%20UZI%20PRO%20Pistol/IWI-TSFD16-TavorSARFT165-FDELeftSide.jpg
TAVOR SAR "IDF" Model with 16.5" Barrel + Mepro-21 Reflex Sight
http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc79/kaz53_photos/IWI%20US%20-%20Tavor%20SAR%20-%20UZI%20PRO%20Pistol/IWI-TSIDF16-TavorSARIDF165Black-LeftSide.jpg
TAVOR SAR 16.5" Barrel - Left Hand, Black
http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc79/kaz53_photos/IWI%20US%20-%20Tavor%20SAR%20-%20UZI%20PRO%20Pistol/IWI-TSB16L-TavorSARFT165-Black-LeftSide-LeftHand.jpg
TAVOR SAR 18" Barrel, Black
http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc79/kaz53_photos/IWI%20US%20-%20Tavor%20SAR%20-%20UZI%20PRO%20Pistol/IWI-TSB18-TavorSARFT18-Black-RightSide.jpg
TV-PressPass
11-26-12, 14:38
And I've seen a few people commenting on the quick change barrel?
I wouldn't be calling it quick change just yet. I did a video of the disassembly process this weekend:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8070/8213347617_b879e5e3a9.jpg (http://youtu.be/gbsjOV04e2Y)
Suwannee Tim
11-26-12, 17:35
I want one. I bought an AUG A3 and it is ridiculously heavy. I'll take a 5.45 too.
TV-PressPass
11-26-12, 17:37
5.45 is what has me really excited. It would be nice to get some cheap surplus ammo and really push the platform.
It looks like the charging handle is a bit "sticky" in some of your videos... is that just the way it is / or / does it smooth out over time?
Im in for one too, looking forward to this.
Hmm, new around these parts but I might be in for one of these rather than a 12.5" AR. Would be nice to save a tax stamp and still get the same over all length with a 16" barrel.
TV-PressPass
11-27-12, 07:43
Ag08, I'd definitely reccomend one of these. The compactness is nice, plus you don't get any of the gas issues that come with shorter ARs. Nice, clean, piston system!
sadmin: Can you show me an example? Because in my head the charging handle has never been sticky. There are two possibilities to explain what your seeing.
1. The charging handle does lock in the forward position. Because its non-reciprocating, you don't want it flopping around when the bolt is already closed.
2. I'm just not man-handling it enough, especially in the early videos. Its the same springiness as an AR charging handle from my experience. Just rack it back to compress the return spring and release. I've had new shooters screw it up by riding the charging handle and having a failure to battery as a result.
Ahh, that makes sense. It must be the unlocking of the handle movement before pulling it rearward that gives that appearance. I hadnt considered that. Thanks!
One more question - what is the circular piece behind the optic that is present on the IDF model?
Cheers
TV-PressPass
11-27-12, 09:28
Oh! Thats your BUIS!! Any non-flattop Tavor comes with a different gas block with a rear back up site that twists up. Just looking through my library I actually don't have any great shots with it flipped up, but here's what it looks like from the shooter's position:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7027/6786729969_ff154aa7d0_b.jpg
Do you have the prices for them yet?
MSRP is $1999 (regardless of color or RH/LH) and $2599 for the IDF model. The 9mm and 5.45 kit is $899. Dealer pricing is a few hundred less of course.
They are already up on distributor sites, just not in-stock.
MSRP is $1999 (regardless of color or RH/LH) and $2599 for the IDF model. The 9mm and 5.45 kit is $899. Dealer pricing is a few hundred less of course.
They are already up on distributor sites, just not in-stock.
Is there a difference in price between 16.5 and 18 inch barrels?
Any practical experiences good or bad or tips would be great.
Thanks in advance!
Is there a difference in price between 16.5 and 18 inch barrels?
None shown, all models are shown as the same price (retail and dealer), except for the IDF version which is more expensive.
I'm down for a 16.5" model, the rep. told me 6-10 months, which doesn't mean anything... Same place took 2yrs to get me a SCAR-17s.
TV-PressPass
11-30-12, 17:34
@schleism: I've never used steel case, but I've used some pretty low grade chinese surplus ammo and had zero problems.
I don't have any suppressor info yet, but check back in a few months with me and we'll see if there isn't some interesting videos being made :D
Curse this damn economy.
I need about 4 of them. But with my business currently in "duck and cover" mode it's gonna be awhile before I even buy one.
LonghunterCO
11-30-12, 23:38
How does that work with shorter than 16" barrels? the assembly in the video looks like it just makes it out to the FH before it comes up and off the barrel.
Curse this damn economy.
I need about 4 of them. But with my business currently in "duck and cover" mode it's gonna be awhile before I even buy one.
I just bought a AUG CQC and now I want one of these as well, just not in the cards.
TV-PressPass
12-01-12, 11:16
LongHunter, are you talking about removing the handguard? You can definitely seperate the two arms of the reciever from the handguard earlier than I do in the video, I just like to get well out from under the rail.
However I've been told by other Canadian Tavor owners that installing the 14" CTAR barrel was a huge pain in the ass that took them the better part of an hour to do the first time.
citizensoldier16
12-02-12, 19:24
Fugly.
No chance I'll ever buy it unless it was extremely fun to shoot.
Funny...people said that about the M16 when it was introduced too. It's a wonder it's survived this long. :blink:
Personally I like it...a lot. Although $1900 is a bit steep. Get it down to around $1k and I'd be interested.
Beat Trash
12-02-12, 19:43
A 16" FDE model is definately in my future.
I'm not a huge fan of bull pups. While I live in a state where I could register a SBR, I live I. The SW part of a Tri-State region. I often cross state lines just to get from point A to point B. I am under the impression that taking an SBR out of state is a no-go.
If the production model is GTG and they keep the street price under $1,900, I see these selling well. Especially for those who can't register an SBR, or for those who don't want the hassle.
I can't wait to own one for myself.
Funny...people said that about the M16 when it was introduced too. It's a wonder it's survived this long. :blink:
Personally I like it...a lot. Although $1900 is a bit steep. Get it down to around $1k and I'd be interested.
Don't hold your breath. New rifles will stay near $2K for a very long time. I doubt that you will ever see it go below $1.5K.
TV-PressPass
12-03-12, 09:39
Lol you guys are spoiled! I got a smoking deal paying $1800 for mine. In Canada they retail for $2700-$3400 depending on when you bought which model!!
Lol you guys are spoiled! I got a smoking deal paying $1800 for mine. In Canada they retail for $2700-$3400 depending on when you bought which model!!
There's no way the Tavor would sell for that much in the US. They would end up being priced too much out of their competition. I think the "cool" factor would run out with the average buyers when they realize they can find an AR15 for less than $1k.
Sent from my iPhone located on the planet Hoth.
TV-PressPass
12-04-12, 11:46
Part of the reason it pulls a price like that in Canada is because we can't hunt or carry our AR-15s to anywhere but Govt Approved ranges.
Being unregistered and bullpup makes the Tavor pretty damn desirable.
Just something to tide you over while you wait. 15" CTAR restricted version in Canada with suppressor.
http://www.nexxus.cc/images/tavor-ctars.jpg
And the non-restricted 18.5" version. This one is kind of unique, as it features a short factory raised with integrated flip-up rear BUIS (noticeably lighter than the full-length rail version). This has a lower aluminum rail from Zahal that mounts to the hand guard.
http://www.nexxus.cc/images/tavor-star.jpg
Im not sure if anyone has asked this yet but what is the LOP on this rifle?
Im not sure if anyone has asked this yet but what is the LOP on this rifle?
Approximately 15.5" on our version.
Approximately 15.5" on our version.
that's a little more than I was expecting, does it actually feel that long when shouldered?
that's a little more than I was expecting, does it actually feel that long when shouldered?
Nope. And to be honest, there's been a grand total of one person to-date who's complained about the length of pull. But then he doesn't like any bullpups, either.
TV-PressPass
12-06-12, 09:27
Lol yus. One guy who constantly bitches and moans about the LOP.
I'd be curious whether down the line IWI US markets a replacement butt-pad similar to the slimmed down X95 pad.
http://sphotos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/616867_445492718806937_1907088397_o.jpg
Can the left handed bolt installed be configured with charging handle on left side of the rifle?
Can the left handed bolt installed be configured with charging handle on left side of the rifle?
I'm curious on why you wish for a rifle configured as such?
Light placement.
I never thought of it that way but it makes sense.
Can the left handed bolt installed be configured with charging handle on left side of the rifle?
Yes. In fact, you have to switch the charging handle and rail to the left side with the left hand bolt.
??? Every photo I have seen shows a right handed configured gun with the charging handle on the left side, and a left handed configured gun with charging handle on the right side. So theres no confusion Im talking about charging handle on same side as ejection. I haven't seen this definitively answered.
From what I remember of the Tavor armorer's manual the CH placement is independent of the ejection side.
H
http://www.iwi.us/index.html
TV-PressPass
12-12-12, 12:11
Great questions Keller. I'm suddenly tempted to flip the rail and charging handle on my Tavor to fascilitate a better light mount. I don't use my inforce unless its the IR output with an NVD because its mounted in a less than ideal positon :P
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8154/7467361454_6bd6011ee1_c.jpg
TurretGunner
12-13-12, 22:43
Just something to tide you over while you wait. 15" CTAR restricted version in Canada with suppressor.
http://www.nexxus.cc/images/tavor-ctars.jpg
And the non-restricted 18.5" version. This one is kind of unique, as it features a short factory raised with integrated flip-up rear BUIS (noticeably lighter than the full-length rail version). This has a lower aluminum rail from Zahal that mounts to the hand guard.
http://www.nexxus.cc/images/tavor-star.jpg
How do you like the eotech vs the Elcan on it? I have an old MARS sight I will use buy may get a eothingy, as its much quicker and lighter than the mars.
TV-PressPass
12-17-12, 07:28
That's funny Turretgunner. I'm trying to get rid of my eotech so I can buy a Mepro21 or a MARs to try back on my Tavor!
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8223/8274428149_711ef6cb8c_c.jpg
How do you like the eotech vs the Elcan on it? I have an old MARS sight I will use buy may get a eothingy, as its much quicker and lighter than the mars.
Really like them both, which is why I've gone with a different optic setup on the two Tavors I own. The EOTech is noticeably lighter, though - but seems well-suited to the first generation/fixed BUIS CTAR model.
TurretGunner
12-18-12, 19:18
Really like them both, which is why I've gone with a different optic setup on the two Tavors I own. The EOTech is noticeably lighter, though - but seems well-suited to the first generation/fixed BUIS CTAR model.
Do you need a riser or a higher mount to get a good cheek weld with the eotech? How much face movement can you get away with and still shoot accuratley?
Do you need a riser or a higher mount to get a good cheek weld with the eotech? How much face movement can you get away with and still shoot accuratley?
The EOTech on the CTAR is using a Canadian aftermarket rail about 1/4" shorter than the factory one sporting the Elcan Spectre DR, and I find it gives an excellent cheek weld along with almost perfect cowitness with the fixed BUIS (the key for me is a model with the buttons on the side). Quite a bit, actually - but the ergonomics and LOP are near-perfect for me.
Fighting Tenth
12-20-12, 23:01
Question for those who shot both Tavor and FN2000: How the they compare recoil wise? Is the tapped short stroke piston of the FN smoother than the long stroke piston of the Tavor?
I've owned both, and used them a fair amount on a KD range from 100 to 500m.
The FN's recoil impulse is noticeably more even than the Tavor.
In my experience with both at the 500m mound, the FS2000 was an honest 3moa, the Tavor around 6-8moa.
TV-PressPass
12-21-12, 09:06
Adding to the pictures, my Tavor just got painted:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8198/8282180555_27a173ed10_c.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8355/8282179769_16c37d59e9_b.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8485/8282215563_9e29267780_b.jpg
Ugh. Wishing I could get one!
Very NICE! I like the two tone paint job.
I've owned both, and used them a fair amount on a KD range from 100 to 500m.
The FN's recoil impulse is noticeably more even than the Tavor.
In my experience with both at the 500m mound, the FS2000 was an honest 3moa, the Tavor around 6-8moa.
Thanks for the info, as a lefty I was always a big admirer of the FS2k.
signkutter
12-28-12, 20:41
I've owned both, and used them a fair amount on a KD range from 100 to 500m.
The FN's recoil impulse is noticeably more even than the Tavor.
In my experience with both at the 500m mound, the FS2000 was an honest 3moa, the Tavor around 6-8moa.
Is that a 3MOA group at five hundred meters? Like 3MOA at 100 meters multplied x5 or a 3 inch group at 500 meters?
Nra-Life-Member
12-29-12, 21:08
Nice paint job!
TurretGunner
12-30-12, 07:38
Is that a 3MOA group at five hundred meters? Like 3MOA at 100 meters multplied x5 or a 3 inch group at 500 meters?
MOA means minute of arc.
3 MOA at 500 yards is approx 15.75 inches.
Failure2Stop
12-30-12, 08:11
MOA means minute of arc.
3 MOA at 500 yards is approx 15.75 inches.
While technically correct, in the firearms community it is referred to as "minute of angle".
Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.
how does one go about ordering these?
TurretGunner
01-15-13, 15:51
how does one go about ordering these?
Copes was doing a pre order but I belive they stopped taking them.
There was also a group buy at TOS on the bullpup forum that is closed.
Your best chance is to find a dealer who will put in an order with a distributor and wait, or pay $5 grand for one when they get dumped on gunbroker in the first few months.
Copes was doing a pre order but I belive they stopped taking them.
There was also a group buy at TOS on the bullpup forum that is closed.
Your best chance is to find a dealer who will put in an order with a distributor and wait, or pay $5 grand for one when they get dumped on gunbroker in the first few months.
Yea, Copes had 400 total allotted to them in various configurations. They said they would open for more once they sort all the pre-orders and figure out if they can snag a few more rifles. Kind of wish I had gotten one in FDE as well, really crossing my fingers this rifle makes it out into our hands. That and a 300BLK barrel kit would be nice (Also looking at you Steyr!) :D
Guntrician
03-03-13, 00:41
I'm a big fan of bullpups. I have an AUG clone (AXR) and FS2000. Like both a lot but prefer the FS2000. Been patiently waiting for the Tavor to show up here. Just kills me every time I see pics of our friends up north having fun with this rifle so far ahead of us. Lucky bastards. ;) Can't wait.
TV-PressPass
03-05-13, 16:58
Pictures?! You're not truly jealous till you've seen video ;)
http://youtu.be/Y6eG_xuQDcg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8500/8445404999_4466243ea4_c.jpg
Pictures?! You're not truly jealous till you've seen video ;)
http://youtu.be/Y6eG_xuQDcg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8500/8445404999_4466243ea4_c.jpg
I am definitely jealous now. That is one cool looking gun. :smile:
I would love to get one of these.
In case anybody's interested, here's Michael Kassner with a huge stack of Tavors boxed and ready to ship.
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/69862_286809164782944_327862357_n.jpg
It shouldn't be long now.
It's also kind of nice to see what must have been a lot of work over the past ~three years pay off for Mr. Kassner. I for one am appreciative of his efforts and pleased this is finally happening for him. It seems to mean a lot to him.
-Cheers
Marshall Dillon
03-09-13, 00:26
Congratulations!! That stack of Tavors looks STELLAR! A good buddy of mine and I ordered Tavors a few months ago and can't wait to receive 'em and put 'em through the paces.
Chromium4500
03-09-13, 10:25
Hurray!!! Finally!
Pre-order placed early, been waiting patiently :D
Pictures?! You're not truly jealous till you've seen video ;)
http://youtu.be/Y6eG_xuQDcg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8500/8445404999_4466243ea4_c.jpg
If you're right handed, how do you operate the light when its in that position?
It always seemed to me that the FAMAS had the best gas system design possible for a bullpup, it was like the bullpup equivelent of a G3. I'm not sure why nobody has used either gas system since.
I have always wanted a FAMAS
Can the left handed bolt installed be configured with charging handle on left side of the rifle?
Yes, it is possible.
Larry Vickers
03-18-13, 21:02
I just got my IWI US Tavor - left handed FDE Version for an upcoming TacTV episode . I played with it a lot today and I really like the fact they put limited travel QD sling swivel attachment points on it versus the original IWI design
Barring anything unforeseen I think it is the best Bullpup I have ever handled and it seems like with practice it is even switch shoulder capable without a lot of problems
It is extremely compact and has excellent controls - it is the first Bullpup I have ever handled that I would even consider using over an M4 carbine; it has a lot of potential
The best new assault rifle I have handled in a very long time
My recommendation ; get one as soon as you can afford it
I just got my IWI US Tavor - left handed FDE Version for an upcoming TacTV episode . I played with it a lot today and I really like the fact they put limited travel QD sling swivel attachment points on it versus the original IWI design
Barring anything unforeseen I think it is the best Bullpup I have ever handled and it seems like with practice it is even switch shoulder capable without a lot of problems
It is extremely compact and has excellent controls - it is the first Bullpup I have ever handled that I would even consider using over an M4 carbine; it has a lot of potential
The best new assault rifle I have handled in a very long time
My recommendation ; get one as soon as you can afford it
Thanks you for your recommendation. Now the question is where can i find a lefty, they are vapor ware at this time.
Shoulderthinggoesup
03-19-13, 09:50
It is extremely compact and has excellent controls - it is the first Bullpup I have ever handled that I would even consider using over an M4 carbine; it has a lot of potential
wow........ Could not get a better recommendation than that.
It sure is upsetting that my palm reader told me I will lose mine in a tragic boating accident as soon as it arrives from copes.
TurretGunner
03-19-13, 10:40
Thanks you for your recommendation. Now the question is where can i find a lefty, they are vapor ware at this time.
Your going to need about $5+ Grand or wait a few years.
Preorder boat sailed a LONG time ago.
And they are not vaporware. There are racks of them, and they are shipping out starting tommrow.
S. Galbraith
03-19-13, 13:05
Well I know what new rifle I will be buying once all this AWB hysteria has passed.
WickedWillis
03-19-13, 17:24
Thanks you for your recommendation. Now the question is where can i find a lefty, they are vapor ware at this time.
The gun is set up to be completely ambidextrous.
hotrodder636
03-19-13, 17:33
Just curious to see numbers and delivery times.
johnnywitt
03-19-13, 20:00
So, where is the BUIS on the IDF Israeli Guns, or do they even use them?
How do you clean the barrel? Please don't tell me you have to go in through the damn muzzle.
How do they account for smaller or larger stature soldiers with regard to LOP? Do they have different thickness butt pads?
Looks like a superb modern platform that will sell and keep Folks from having to deal with SBR & the resultant hassle factor- the restrictions on travel with the permission slip, worries about confiscation at a later date, ect. Lots of downside with respect to SBR IMO.
Thanks you for your recommendation. Now the question is where can i find a lefty, they are vapor ware at this time.
Sign up with some place like Atlantic Firearms, either for a lefty or aright and then get a lefty-bolt. Click on the model of your choice, add to cart, and then it will say they are not in stock HOWEVER will let you sign up for email notification when they have some in stock:
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/component/search/?searchword=tavor&option=com_search
Everything other than the bolt is totally ambidextrous, and if you use 5.56 it's a little hotter than .223 and shoots it forward a bit. The brass deflector bounces them forward enough where it seems to barely touch your face w/ .223. It's about as good as it could be.
So, where is the BUIS on the IDF Israeli Guns, or do they even use them?
They are still integrated. Check out TVPress-Pass' post in this thread:
http://www.ar15.com/mobile/topic.html?b=6&f=43&t=280158&page=110
How do you clean the barrel? Please don't tell me you have to go in through the damn muzzle.
How do they account for smaller or larger stature soldiers with regard to LOP? Do they have different thickness butt pads?
I'd ask somebody like TVPress-Pass, Tim from Military Arms Channel, or Larry Vickers, or maybe one or more of them will post here. Until then, here's the Tavor Armourer's Manual:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/29008594/Tavor-Armourer-Manual
Looks like a superb modern platform that will sell and keep Folks from having to deal with SBR & the resultant hassle factor- the restrictions on travel with the permission slip, worries about confiscation at a later date, ect. Lots of downside with respect to SBR IMO.
Ditto.
-Cheers
Shoulderthinggoesup
03-19-13, 20:42
Looks like a superb modern platform that will sell and keep Folks from having to deal with SBR & the resultant hassle factor- the restrictions on travel with the permission slip, worries about confiscation at a later date, ect. Lots of downside with respect to SBR IMO.
That was what sold me on pre-ordering. Was planning on a 300 BO, but decided dealing with SBR stuff was not worth the hassle. If I am not mistaken, the OAL of the 16 inch is equal to that of an 7.5 inch AR...
Larry Vickers
03-19-13, 21:59
I'm not aware of different buttpads for LOP but it is possible - the LOP right now is not objectionable at all
You do not need to go thru the muzzle to clean the barrel - it is easily cleaned thru the chamber end
It appears that shooting from the off shoulder can be easily accomplished with a red dot sight by not creeping up on the stock as much as you normally would shooting strong side - I will know when I try it but my guess is it very doable
The irons in the pic rail mount version fold down and tuck into the 12 o'clock rail and the front has a tritium insert - with a Micro mount on a LaRue throw lever mount they are co-witness height
I plan on using mine with the irons folded down and running a T-1
I am still figuring out the white light location - the gun is totally ambi except for the bolt and that looks to be a non issue based on proper technique
It is extremely compact and would make for excellent maneuverability in tight spaces
My gut says this gun is a winner and could well be the best Bullpup to date
Watch for a TacTV episode on the Tavor later in 2013
johnnywitt
03-19-13, 22:22
Yeah, I'm all about the M4 Platform, but, lets face it, it's a Platform designed in the mid 20th century (albeit, ahead of its time using plastics and aluminum). This, however, is another quantum leap technology-wise in 21st century weaponology designed by Israelis for Israelis to defend their Homeland.
I'm looking forward to some early adopters getting some trigger time, especially the cognoscenti like LAV and getting their take.
Glad the AWB looks like its DOA now, so maybe the price point will ease off a little down the road as well as availability.
I'm not aware of different buttpads for LOP but it is possible - the LOP right now is not objectionable at all
You do not need to go thru the muzzle to clean the barrel - it is easily cleaned thru the chamber end
It appears that shooting from the off shoulder can be easily accomplished with a red dot sight by not creeping up on the stock as much as you normally would shooting strong side - I will know when I try it but my guess is it very doable
The irons in the pic rail mount version fold down and tuck into the 12 o'clock rail and the front has a tritium insert - with a Micro mount on a LaRue throw lever mount they are co-witness height
I plan on using mine with the irons folded down and running a T-1
I am still figuring out the white light location - the gun is totally ambi except for the bolt and that looks to be a non issue based on proper technique
It is extremely compact and would make for excellent maneuverability in tight spaces
My gut says this gun is a winner and could well be the best Bullpup to date
Watch for a TacTV episode on the Tavor later in 2013
Larry,
You've had a chance to spend a bit of time behind this weapon. How viable is the Leupold 1-3X Mark 4, CQ/T for this rifle?
Thanks,
Ken
Larry Vickers
03-20-13, 01:34
Ken
Off the top of my head I would say the CQT is very viable - the trigger is spongy as you would expect but if the gun ends up being as popular as I expect it to be with the AWB appearing less and less likely I would like to think we may see Geisselle do a trigger for it- I will certainly ask him about it
Hell he did one for the SCAR and the ACR right ? In my book both those guns are dogs in comparison based on my first impressions of the Tavor
It is also entirely possible that individuals may crack the code on doing a trigger job with stock components also
Honestly about the only thing I can really criticize on the gun is the trigger - not that it is terrible it is just a typical Bullpup trigger
If that issue is addressed this thing will be set up for success - the Tavor is very popular in Canada and I am starting to see why
Ken
Off the top of my head I would say the CQT is very viable - the trigger is spongy as you would expect but if the gun ends up being as popular as I expect it to be with the AWB appearing less and less likely I would like to think we may see Geisselle do a trigger for it- I will certainly ask him about it
Hell he did one for the SCAR and the ACR right ? In my book both those guns are dogs in comparison based on my first impressions of the Tavor
It is also entirely possible that individuals may crack the code on doing a trigger job with stock components also
Honestly about the only thing I can really criticize on the gun is the trigger - not that it is terrible it is just a typical Bullpup trigger
If that issue is addressed this thing will be set up for success - the Tavor is very popular in Canada and I am starting to see why
Larry,
Thanks for you insight. I ran an issued AUG-P for several years but they took them away and we standardized with the M-4 in 2009. I still think we'd have done better with new AUGs instead. I really liked the 1.5X "donut of death optic. I found it to be fast, easy to use, and near bomb-proof. Since the announcement of the Tavor, I have been trying to decide which optic would give the Tavor the greatest all-around utility. The M-4s in the household all wear Aimpoints, either T-1's or PROs, one has a 1-4X. I was thinking the low magnification of the CQ/T would be give the tavor great flexibility in the 50-300M realm. Anyway, anxious to see these on the streets. If you find yourself over at Prado anytime soon, give a call.
Thanks again,
Ken
I would like to think we may see Geisselle do a trigger for it- I will certainly ask him about it
Larry, thank you and PLEASE do pursue this with him. ;)
I love all my Geisselle triggers and would not like to see my Tavor deprived of one.
I'm not aware of different buttpads for LOP but it is possible - the LOP right now is not objectionable at all
You do not need to go thru the muzzle to clean the barrel - it is easily cleaned thru the chamber end
It appears that shooting from the off shoulder can be easily accomplished with a red dot sight by not creeping up on the stock as much as you normally would shooting strong side - I will know when I try it but my guess is it very doable
The irons in the pic rail mount version fold down and tuck into the 12 o'clock rail and the front has a tritium insert - with a Micro mount on a LaRue throw lever mount they are co-witness height.
Larry,
Am I correct to assume that you are using the LT751 (absolute) to get a co-witness and not one of the other Larue mounts?
Larry,
You've had a chance to spend a bit of time behind this weapon. How viable is the Leupold 1-3X Mark 4, CQ/T for this rifle?
Thanks,
Ken
Ken,
Do you already have much experience with the CQ/T? I have one that I'm not really using since it is rather big and heavy for what it provides. IMHO, there are some better choices and I keep it only because it was my very first AR optic (purchased in 1998 I believe). If you don't already have one, PM me if you want to give mine a try when you get your Tavor.
Thanks for your thoughts, Larry. We really value your opinion.
I have not been following the Tavor closely, but remember hearing something about the gun having the Tavor having issues with PMAGs and the bolt hold open. I'm wondering if this has been addressed with the US made versions. There is no reason that the Israelli version would be designed to work with PMAGs because it was designed and released before PMAGs existed, and it was likely designed to run with US GI Spec mags and Israelli made polymer mags.
Also, I'm wondering if the gun has any issues with feeding reliably when monopodded on the magazine. This is just a general question.
thanks!
Larry,
Am I correct to assume that you are using the LT751 (absolute) to get a co-witness and not one of the other Larue mounts?
Ken,
Do you already have much experience with the CQ/T? I have one that I'm not really using since it is rather big and heavy for what it provides. IMHO, there are some better choices and I keep it only because it was my very first AR optic (purchased in 1998 I believe). If you don't already have one, PM me if you want to give mine a try when you get your Tavor.
Sensei,
No, I have an XTR 1-4X on one carbine. 1X on everything else. The only other compact optic that is similar in size to the 1.5X donut of death we had on the AUG-P is the CQ/T. I'd like something fast like a 1X, bot with a bit more flexibility. The 1-4 (1 or 4) Elcan is an option but damn, it is heavy. I was hoping this year at shot there would be some more compact, variable GP optics shown but I was disappointed.
Ken
Sensei,
No, I have an XTR 1-4X on one carbine. 1X on everything else. The only other compact optic that is similar in size to the 1.5X donut of death we had on the AUG-P is the CQ/T. I'd like something fast like a 1X, bot with a bit more flexibility. The 1-4 (1 or 4) Elcan is an option but damn, it is heavy. I was hoping this year at shot there would be some more compact, variable GP optics shown but I was disappointed.
Ken
Gotcha. Have you looked at the Nightforce NXS 1-4X24 with FC-2 reticle? I have one sitting on top of my recce and like it much more than the CQ/T.
Shoulderthinggoesup
03-22-13, 08:31
For anyone with a pre-order, the 16.5 black tavors are shipping to distributors now. http://myemail.constantcontact.com/IWI-US--Inc--TAVOR--SAR-Bullpup-Rifles-Commence-Shipping-to-Distributors.html?soid=1102126238606&aid=MoK8uBf1Sp4
As for scopes, I would really like to see someone use canon's Defractive Optic technology on a 1-4x scope. It would make for a smaller, lighter scope.
http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/standard_display/Lens_Advantage_Perf#f
Shoulderthinggoesup
03-22-13, 08:45
Opps. Negligent forum discharge.
Can't wait to get mine in, especially after getting to handle them at SHOT. I ended up preordering an IDF model and would like to get a 16.5 FDE if one pops up. Hope to add a 9mm conversion when they get released as well.
Gotcha. Have you looked at the Nightforce NXS 1-4X24 with FC-2 reticle? I have one sitting on top of my recce and like it much more than the CQ/T.
Awesome ret. on a 1-4X! The NF NXS is a great line of glass at a fair price point.
Awesome ret. on a 1-4X! The NF NXS is a great line of glass at a fair price point.
That would be my choice if you want a circle-dot reticle in a 1-4X package. Having said that, the size and weight of these scopes really doesn't play to the Tavor's compact design unless you are going with the longer barreled option. I plan to go with the 16.5" with Aimpoint Micro.
ForTehNguyen
03-23-13, 09:24
do want 16.5 FDE
train of abuses
03-23-13, 15:52
I never thought I would care much for anything in 556 that wasn't an AR, but this is making me second guess that idea. It sure would come in handy for a home defense rifle for those of us who don't want to mess around with the SBR paperwork. And if Vickers is giving it his endorsement, then I know it has to be solid.
I can't wait to read more about this as people put them through their paces. This sounds very, very interesting. I admit to also being very impressed at the engineering behind making it something that appears to be very simple and easy for a conscript type soldier to learn.
bnanaphone
03-23-13, 17:05
Now is your chance as the first one has hit Gunbroker. Here it is:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=333862335
Shoulderthinggoesup
03-23-13, 22:47
Just a warning to anyone interested in the Tavor: watch out for Knesek Guns. they have these available for "preorder" but apparently have a history of sketchy business practices. There are LOTS of reports that claim they have stock of stuff, take payment, and then not deliver. When you try to get a refund they claim a 45% restocking fee.
http://www.reddit.com/r/ar15/comments/1aum95/warning_about_knesek_guns_inc/
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_7_109/962550_.html
http://www.yelp.com/biz/knesek-guns-inc-van-buren
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=41722
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:9IhV0nkob6MJ:snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php%3Fubb%3Dshowflat%26Number%3D3168821+&cd=10&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=7&f=109&t=690600
The list of these threads I could post just goes on and on.
Now is your chance as the first one has hit Gunbroker. Here it is:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=333862335
Sweet... althought FDE would be better....
Sweet... althought FDE would be better....
So would getting it for retail costs. :rolleyes: Unless you're racing some sort of ban, I do not get overpaying to that extent to get something that is being introduced into the market and that, if you wait a little big, you can get for ~MSRP.
-Cheers
Unless you're racing some sort of ban, I do not get overpaying to that extent to get something that is being introduced into the market and that, if you wait a little big, you can get for ~MSRP.
+1
I predict these will be $1500 in a year. Then I'll throw down my dough.
+1
I predict these will be $1500 in a year. Then I'll throw down my dough.
I second that motion. Best to wait... although I will say this: is an extra $1,000 really that big of a deal for something you are passionate about and want to acquire?
For example, I was at a sporting event and beverages were selling for $7. I could wait just a short time until after the game and purchase the same beverage outside the event at half the cost.
Might be not financially sound but I was thirsty, the beverage was what I wanted, and it was handy.
Same thing here. I understand why guys are buying it at a higher price. Their reasons are clear to me... for I recognize their familiar desire to just do it.
I don't fault them for it or call them fools, I rejoice in the free market that allows the prices to match demand.
I second that motion. Best to wait... although I will say this: is an extra $1,000 really that big of a deal for something you are passionate about and want to acquire?
For example, I was at a sporting event and beverages were selling for $7. I could wait just a short time until after the game and purchase the same beverage outside the event at half the cost.
Might be not financially sound but I was thirsty, the beverage was what I wanted, and it was handy.
Same thing here. I understand why guys are buying it at a higher price. Their reasons are clear to me... for I recognize their familiar desire to just do it.
I don't fault them for it or call them fools, I rejoice in the free market that allows the prices to match demand.
Did you just compare the purchase of a $2000+ rifle with a $7 drink? One is about 5% of the US mean salary and the other is less than 0.02%. You must be one of those evil 1-percenters. ;)
Did you just compare the purchase of a $2000+ rifle with a $7 drink? One is about 5% of the US mean salary and the other is less than 0.02%. You must be one of those evil 1-percenters. ;)
lol. I think of it this way.....
The purchase habits of a middle income couple with kids is quite different than, say, a young professional couple that works all the time... with no kids.
Their purchase and buying habits SHOULD be different. Affording a $1,000 "mistake" is not really relative to income, it is more relative to other SPENDING.
Lets say, for example, someone was wise enough a few years ago to avoid buying-in on the idea of purchasing "the most expensive house and cars that we can possibly afford".
Furthermore, some families smoke 5 packs a week = $1,800 a year.
...so if someone, instead, buys one overpriced rifle per year... they would still be better off.
I guess that is why it is a free country.
bnanaphone
03-27-13, 09:55
+1
I predict these will be $1500 in a year. Then I'll throw down my dough.
I can completely understand waiting for prices to level out before buying. I just don't think you will ever find one for $1,500. That is like waiting for the $1,500 ACR (people said the same when they came out). I think you may be able to get one for around $1,800 or so in a year, but not likely any cheaper.
When the OBR was first released, the Larue group buy was $2,500 and look at prices now.
I can completely understand waiting for prices to level out before buying. I just don't think you will ever find one for $1,500. That is like waiting for the $1,500 ACR (people said the same when they came out). I think you may be able to get one for around $1,800 or so in a year, but not likely any cheaper.
When the OBR was first released, the Larue group buy was $2,500 and look at prices now.
Yeah, I think a 25% drop in price is a shade too optimistic.
I second that motion. Best to wait... although I will say this: is an extra $1,000 really that big of a deal for something you are passionate about and want to acquire?
[snip]
I don't fault them for it or call them fools, I rejoice in the free market that allows the prices to match demand.
Is it that big of a deal? To some, maybe most, no. To me, it actually is a bit. I'm one of those married-with-two-kids types, so $1k can go kind of a long way. If I am being perfectly honest, that is not the real reason.
The reason I think it is a big deal is I am paying somebody for being opportunistic and upcharging dramatically over MSRP, and for what? For the opportunity of having something a relatively short amount of time sooner than I would have gotten it in the first place? Perhaps for up to (or over) double MSRP, so if I had waited I could have gotten two of them for the same money.
It may just be me and my quirks, however that does not sit well with me.
-Cheers
Larry Vickers
03-27-13, 10:26
I'd take the bet the gun's won't be $1500 within a year
I personally don't see that happening
Could be wrong but we shall see
TurretGunner
03-27-13, 17:12
+1
I predict these will be $1500 in a year. Then I'll throw down my dough.
How long have RFB's and SCAR17's been out? How much do they cost?
+1
I predict these will be $1500 in a year. Then I'll throw down my dough.
Not going to happen.
OK guys, mark you calendars. We'll see in a year.
I passed on an FS2000 because I couldn't justify spending $2000. The price eventually worked its way down to $1425, so I bought one. Sig556's were going for $1500+. They eventually went down to $900. The market overall is really pumped up. It's going to come down significantly. It's all about supply and demand. Once everyone who has to have one gets one, they really have to cut the price to pull in new buyers.
twistedcomrade
03-27-13, 21:38
OK guys, mark you calendars. We'll see in a year.
I passed on an FS2000 because I couldn't justify spending $2000. The price eventually worked its way down to $1425, so I bought one. Sig556's were going for $1500+. They eventually went down to $900. The market overall is really pumped up. It's going to come down significantly. It's all about supply and demand. Once everyone who has to have one gets one, they really have to cut the price to pull in new buyers.
All true, but the dems have went all in for gun control and will stay at it hard through 2014. I think they will fail, but I think their efforts will keep prices inflated for a longer period than after the 2008 elections.
bondmid003
03-28-13, 00:56
How long have RFB's and SCAR17's been out? How much do they cost?
SCAR 17's were never meant to come below 2K though. Bad comparison IMHO
All true, but the dems have went all in for gun control and will stay at it hard through 2014. I think they will fail, but I think their efforts will keep prices inflated for a longer period than after the 2008 elections.
Don't worry, Hillary will git-er-dun when she wins in 2016.
BullittBoy
03-28-13, 08:12
FS2000's were $2K from about 2006-2011, it took 5 years for them to drop to the $1,500 level, it was not in a year. Then they bounced back to $2K+ in the last few months
TurretGunner
03-28-13, 12:57
FS2000's were $2K from about 2006-2011, it took 5 years for them to drop to the $1,500 level, it was not in a year. Then they bounced back to $2K+ in the last few months
Considering that no one really wanted a FS200, it was a proof-of-concept novelty gun that FN couldnt sell on the military market. No one really wanted one and those that do, are just collectors.
The Tavor is a battle proven rifle, which is argubly the best 5.56 carbine since the M4.
I would not plan on seeing sub 2K Tavors on the secondary market for a LONG time. If anything, the price will go up as demand has already shownits not going to come close to supply.
Guntrician
03-30-13, 16:34
Considering that no one really wanted a FS200, it was a proof-of-concept novelty gun that FN couldnt sell on the military market. No one really wanted one and those that do, are just collectors.
The Tavor is a battle proven rifle, which is argubly the best 5.56 carbine since the M4.
I would not plan on seeing sub 2K Tavors on the secondary market for a LONG time. If anything, the price will go up as demand has already shownits not going to come close to supply.
I have to respectfully disagree with almost all that statement. The FS2000 is no "novelty gun". Many people did want one and most that have them, like them very much. Those that aren't willing to put in the effort to adjust to the different operational procedures will likely be unhappy with any bullpup, including the Tavor. Those stuck in the narrow "AR or nothing" mode won't like the FS or Tavor. Those that define a rifles effectiveness based on looks alone will never enjoy the merits of the Tavor, AUG or FS2000.
FN does have "some" military contracts for the F2000. Is it going to compete with the M4 for a US contract? Nope. Neither will any other bullpup. The US doesn't seem interested in changing to much of anything different at the moment. Even platforms that are clearly better than the M4 have little to no chance of going forward with a large contract it seems. We will see though.
Back to the FS. Love it or hate it, it's a good rifle that has its place and does its job quite well. As far as bullpups go I prefer it to my AUG to be honest but like both rifles immensely. My FS has taken a beating and been flawless. Charging handle durability being my only complaint. Mine has been fine however. $1500 Tavors? Don't know when or if we'll ever see that. Maybe, maybe not. They will surely fly off the shelf at $1900 though.
FN does have "some" military contracts for the F2000. Is it going to compete with the M4 for a US contract? Nope. Neither will any other bullpup. The US doesn't seem interested in changing to much of anything different at the moment. Even platforms that are clearly better than the M4 have little to no chance of going forward with a large contract it seems. We will see though.
The most recent purchase for military use of the F2000 that I can remember? Libya. I will see if I can find it...
I even recall seeing a F2000 in the background during a news broadcast.
http://atwar.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/12/28/tracking-belgian-weapons-in-libya/
It all began with this man, in Benghazi, holding a weapon with odd, easily recognizable features: the F.N. 303, a launcher designed by the Belgian company Fabrique Nationale de Herstal and shipped in 2009. The launcher was part of a deal between F.N. Herstal and the Libyan government in May 2008. The Belgian arms factory agreed to sell, along with the 2,000 F.N. 303’s, 367 F2000 automatic rifles, 367 P90 submachine guns, 367 Five Seven pistols, 30 Minimi machine guns, 22,032 40-millimeter grenades for the F2000s, 50 Renaissance pistols and 1.1 million rounds of ammunition. All in all, a deal worth more than 12 million euros, or almost $16 million at current exchange rates.
TAVOR will be sold for a minimum of $2,000 in a year, however, I am betting it is more likely that the current prices on TAVORs will stand and you won't see a drop.
Variables that could impact things greatly: Rifle ban, market uncovering a design flaw not previously known, a significant conflict or war, partial economic collapse, or the rapture.
No way that this gun stays @ 3K+ if there is no ban, you are talking about OBR/SCAR 17 prices for a 556 bullpup? Not saying it isn't a decent gun but to say that the current gunbroker prices are sustainable is a bit premature. I'll still take another SR-15 over one of these @ 2K.
+1
I predict these will be $1500 in a year. Then I'll throw down my dough.
Never going to happen. I know what Distr. price is and that price is below it.
I think the best you could ever hope for is $1700 +.
C4
OK guys, mark you calendars. We'll see in a year.
I passed on an FS2000 because I couldn't justify spending $2000. The price eventually worked its way down to $1425, so I bought one. Sig556's were going for $1500+. They eventually went down to $900. The market overall is really pumped up. It's going to come down significantly. It's all about supply and demand. Once everyone who has to have one gets one, they really have to cut the price to pull in new buyers.
It worked its way "down" because:
1. FN lowered their prices.
2. FN packaged this gun up with SCAR's and popular pistols so the dealer could make his money and then offload the FS2k for cheap.
Understand that this scenario is TOTALLY different that how IWI is setup.
C4
Grant, you know more about the ins and outs of the business than I do. Still, IWI will have to make a decision once their sales start to decline, sell less or lower the price. Of course other factors like foreign contracts play a big roll in this too, so we'll see.
Grant, you know more about the ins and outs of the business than I do. Still, IWI will have to make a decision once their sales start to decline, sell less or lower the price. Of course other factors like foreign contracts play a big roll in this too, so we'll see.
IWI is looking at the BEST bullpup on the market (hands down). On top of this, there are 9mm and 5.45 options for it (three guns in one if you will).
Couple this with the fact that the retail price of $2k is VERY reasonable.
IMHO, the only way you will see them come down in price is if the dealer is short on cash or the distributor cuts discounts to the dealers. This commonly takes years to play out and wouldn't expect it for at least the rest of Obama's term.
C4
TurretGunner
04-01-13, 16:15
Grant, you know more about the ins and outs of the business than I do. Still, IWI will have to make a decision once their sales start to decline, sell less or lower the price. Of course other factors like foreign contracts play a big roll in this too, so we'll see.
I do not see them being able to meet demand for YEARS, unless they start making 5000+ rifles a month.
This is going to be the rifle to own in the near future. It may even replace the M4 in some applications and be a viable carbine to be used for heavy use. It is one of the best designed personal weapons in a LONG time. The modularity and the easy of strip down beats even the M4.
If anything, you will see scar16/xcr/aug prices start to drop because around the 2k price, this will own the market.
Wow, that is a pretty bold claim.
I do not see them being able to meet demand for YEARS, unless they start making 5000+ rifles a month.
This is going to be the rifle to own in the near future. It may even replace the M4 in some applications and be a viable carbine to be used for heavy use. It is one of the best designed personal weapons in a LONG time. The modularity and the easy of strip down beats even the M4.
If anything, you will see scar16/xcr/aug prices start to drop because around the 2k price, this will own the market.
:rolleyes:
It appears to be a nice gun, but own the market? I don't see this thing even overtaking the scar in popularity, let alone owning the market.
The question is.... will the developers make it the go-to gun in the new Call of Duty?
That is the true test of a rifle to reveal if it will pave the way of the future.
FS2000's were $2K from about 2006-2011, it took 5 years for them to drop to the $1,500 level, it was not in a year. Then they bounced back to $2K+ in the last few months
The $1400/$1500 FS2000's were made with "military contract overrun" parts FN wanted to get rid of. The difference were primarily in the bolt carrier finish or something like that.
http://fnforum.net/forums/fn-fs2000/39354-dreaded-9-000-code-fs2000-curse-not.html
There is a better thread on that website explaining the $1500 price but I'm too lazy to look for it.
To be fair, guys with 9000-series guns say they run just as good, but who knows in the long run.
TurretGunner
04-02-13, 17:29
:rolleyes:
It appears to be a nice gun, but own the market? I don't see this thing even overtaking the scar in popularity, let alone owning the market.
Yes , it will own the non AR market. Like I said, the others like AUG/FS/SCAR/XCR/ACR/ect will not be able to compete with this rifle, at this price point.
TurretGunner
04-02-13, 17:30
The $1400/$1500 FS2000's were made with "military contract overrun" parts FN wanted to get rid of. The difference were primarily in the bolt carrier finish or something like that.
http://fnforum.net/forums/fn-fs2000/39354-dreaded-9-000-code-fs2000-curse-not.html
There is a better thread on that website explaining the $1500 price but I'm too lazy to look for it.
To be fair, guys with 9000-series guns say they run just as good, but who knows in the long run.
It was more like, we can't sell these pieces of shit, so we will blow them out below dist price.
On top of that, we will require anyone wanting to buy FN guns, to buy a whole dealer package with FS/P90 as well, or we wont sell you high demand items like SCARS and FN SPR's.
IWI is looking at the BEST bullpup on the market (hands down). On top of this, there are 9mm and 5.45 options for it (three guns in one if you will).
Couple this with the fact that the retail price of $2k is VERY reasonable.
IMHO, the only way you will see them come down in price is if the dealer is short on cash or the distributor cuts discounts to the dealers. This commonly takes years to play out and wouldn't expect it for at least the rest of Obama's term.
C4
What makes it better than an AUG, which also has caliber and barrel change options?
Yes , it will own the non AR market. Like I said, the others like AUG/FS/SCAR/XCR/ACR/ect will not be able to compete with this rifle, at this price point.
And you're basing this on...?
What makes it better than an AUG, which also has caliber and barrel change options?
1. Price
2. Ergo's
3. Trigger
4. Parts availability (in the very near future)
C4
So basically I need one. Im hoping where im a lefty they will be slightly easier to get a hold of. Grant are you getting any in?
So basically I need one. Im hoping where im a lefty they will be slightly easier to get a hold of. Grant are you getting any in?
We only got a couple in. Have a bunch on order though.
C4
We only got a couple in. Have a bunch on order though.
C4
Do you have a waiting list?
Do you have a waiting list?
We only got a couple in. Have a bunch on order though.
C4
Very good question. Either way you'll be getting my money in either a Tavor or BCM A4 rifle.
This is going to be the rifle to own in the near future. It may even replace the M4 in some applications and be a viable carbine to be used for heavy use. It is one of the best designed personal weapons in a LONG time. The modularity and the easy of strip down beats even the M4.
If anything, you will see scar16/xcr/aug prices start to drop because around the 2k price, this will own the market.
At the same price as an M4, things may turn out like you say. At twice the price, there's no way. It may end up being a much better weapon, but government budgets simply won't allow for that much of a difference save for specialized use.
Littlelebowski
04-03-13, 09:20
Yes , it will own the non AR market. Like I said, the others like AUG/FS/SCAR/XCR/ACR/ect will not be able to compete with this rifle, at this price point.
What experience do you have with the Tavor?
What experience do you have with the Tavor?
Are you intimating that only someone who has used the AUG, FS, SCAR, XCR, ACR, and Tavor in real-world settings is capable of making a prognostication as to the market viability of all these guns?
I would think user buzz, marketing strategy and budgets, seeding samples with noted writers, etc, would have more bearing on ultimate market acceptance than a single person's individual experiences, no matter how deep.
Littlelebowski
04-03-13, 10:07
Are you intimating that only someone who has used the AUG, FS, SCAR, XCR, ACR, and Tavor in real-world settings is capable of making a prognostication as to the market viability of all these guns?
I would think user buzz, marketing strategy and budgets, seeding samples with noted writers, etc, would have more bearing on ultimate market acceptance than a single person's individual experiences, no matter how deep.
English :D "What experience do you have with the Tavor?"
English :D "What experience do you have with the Tavor?"
None. Nada. Zip.
But my comment wasn't about technical features, usability, ergonomics, suitability for a given intended use, durability, reliability or any other -ity. Just a broader observation that market forces work in aggregate and watching how potential customers are reacting to and talking about a new product can be a useful data point.
Ultimately, this is thread drift in a technical forum, so I'll apologize to the members here and go back to reading. :)
I got to shoot the new Tavor last week. Very interesting rifle.
I was not the biggest fan of the trigger, but I assume that with a little more time you could easily master it. Having said that I DID shoot it will.
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/523454_4023693969740_61148148_n.jpg
Are you intimating that only someone who has used the AUG, FS, SCAR, XCR, ACR, and Tavor in real-world settings is capable of making a prognostication as to the market viability of all these guns?
I would think user buzz, marketing strategy and budgets, seeding samples with noted writers, etc, would have more bearing on ultimate market acceptance than a single person's individual experiences, no matter how deep.
The trouble is:
1. We don't really have a lot of info on how well it has worked in Israeli service. I'm sure this info is out there.
2. We don't have info about this new US produced version and how it has done once it gets to high round counts.
There have been situations in the past where licensed copies of guns made in other countries did not run as well as the original. I'm not suggesting this is the case here. We've had recognized experts like Larry Vickers giving their initial impression. Most of us put a lot of weight in his first impression, but we still don't have info on how the US version performs with higher round counts.
I'm not saying that the gun is good or bad. I'm saying that at this point it is too early to tell. I'm interested to hear more info as the gun gets used more.
96 SS, what was the rigger like? What would you compare it to?
ForTehNguyen
04-03-13, 20:19
IN STOCK AT AIM
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F1IWITSB16&name=IWI+TAVOR+SAR+.223%2f5.56+Rifle+16.5%22&groupid=6
Sold out, but already under $2000!:laugh:
Moose-Knuckle
04-03-13, 20:34
IN STOCK AT AIM
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F1IWITSB16&name=IWI+TAVOR+SAR+.223%2f5.56+Rifle+16.5%22&groupid=6
$1999, OOS now . . . that was quick.
They're already north of $2500 on GB.
ForTehNguyen
04-03-13, 20:35
i had it in the cart, early adoption fear and gimme gimme now was in conflict
Moose-Knuckle
04-03-13, 20:37
I hear ya, with the current climate in this country I'm tempted to get one at that price "just in case".
ForTehNguyen
04-03-13, 21:28
ill wait a little bit, dont want the early adoption bugs and issues
ill wait a little bit, dont want the early adoption bugs and issues
The way things are going, there don't seem to be any early adoption bugs or issues. :p
So far, people seem pretty happy with them. Although, yes, it's too early to definitively declare anything.
-Cheers
Beat Trash
04-04-13, 16:29
Stopped by to pick up something from one of our retired officers who has an FFL and does transfers. He was old ing up a box he just received from FexEx. Inside was a Tavor. I got to hold it a bit. I was absoulty amazed at how well this thing balanced and how comfortable it felt, for lack of a better term.
I'm definately going to pick up one. But I think I'll hold out for a 16" FDE model.
bnanaphone
04-05-13, 09:53
Just picked up my Tavor yesterday. The trigger feels much better than I was expecting for a bullpup and it handles well. I am going to take it shooting on Sunday along with a couple buddies and see how things go. I think I am really going to like it.
Nothing like a new rifle at the range, especially if it functions to perfection...
Eagerly awaiting pictures.
Just picked up my Tavor yesterday. The trigger feels much better than I was expecting for a bullpup and it handles well. I am going to take it shooting on Sunday along with a couple buddies and see how things go. I think I am really going to like it.
The title of this thread is: The US IWI Tavor (pics) So where the heck are your pics? :D
bnanaphone
04-05-13, 13:38
My bad. I only have one picture of it, so far. I will try to get some better pics over the weekend.
http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt253/dbecker227/IMG_0545_zpsd7b58bb9.jpg
It comes with a 30 round magazine? Think of the children!
96 SS, what was the rigger like? What would you compare it to?
Somewhat like a mix of a DAO pistol and a revolver, but a bit mushy at first.
Overall much better than an AUG, a lot more feel.
SmokinGunMP5
04-06-13, 16:25
I can't be the only one who thinks Keltech everytime I see the Tavor.
I can't be the only one who thinks Keltech everytime I see the Tavor.
It's slightly less ugly than a Keltec and lacks their trademark "everything is held together by screws!" look.
My bad. I only have one picture of it, so far. I will try to get some better pics over the weekend.
Any chance you had an opportunity to take it out and put some rounds through it?
bnanaphone
04-10-13, 14:33
Hi Vip3r, I was able to go shooting Sunday with the Tavor, and couple friends were nice enough to bring additional guns to compare. Luckily one buddy has a sweet little MK18 for size comparison.
First pic compared to a DD MK18 w/ stock collapsed
http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt253/dbecker227/Tavor%20shooting/DSC_0616_zps4f0aee61.jpg
Lastly, anybody want a sniper Tavor?
http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt253/dbecker227/Tavor%20shooting/DSC_0633_zps3092af66.jpg
Sadly, I did not have enough time to try for groups at 100. I just put my R-1 on top, which was nearly dead on at 50 yds from the start. The gun shot great with zero malfunctions in 90 rounds, low on ammo.
This was not a detailed outing, just wanted to put some rounds down range. I did apply a few drops of Slip 2000 to the bolt before shooting.
We had metal targets set at 60, 130 and 160 yards and I was able to hit any of them, while standing and steady, with the Tavor. I am a lefty shooter and have a right-hand model, with plans to get the LH bolt. I was hit with ejected brass below my lip when my head was in position to see through my aimpoint. This was while shooting PMC x-tac 62gr. I really had to back off if I wanted to avoid brass to the face.
I will say that the recoil is a bit snappier than what I am use to, BCM 16" LW with H2 buffer & battlecomp. The Tavor seemed to come off target more easily between shots where my other AR was more controllable (had less muzzle movement). I think more range time will help cure muzzle control.
I hope this helps, let me know if you have any questions.
I will say that the recoil is a bit snappier than what I am use to, BCM 16" LW with H2 buffer & battlecomp. The Tavor seemed to come off target more easily between shots where my other AR was more controllable (had less muzzle movement). I think more range time will help cure muzzle control.
Sounds like you are thinking the difference is from lack of familarity with the TAVOR rather than design differences? I guess we will know when you get more time.
Thanks for the update.
Damn that looks good, I'm glad you had the comparison photo with the MK18, that really sells how short the Tavor is.
As far as the recoil goes, look up the Israeli 6 point of contact method for holding the Tavor. I've heard this make a very stable platform when shooting and may help with the recoil.
Either way i cant wait to get ahold of one to call my own. I just wish I would stop getting sniped on Gunbroker trying to get one...
bnanaphone
04-10-13, 20:50
Sounds like you are thinking the difference is from lack of familarity with the TAVOR rather than design differences? I guess we will know when you get more time.
Thanks for the update.
The difference in recoil impulse could very well be due to the reciprocating mass of the bolt/piston assembly or other characteristic. I am not a seasoned enough shooter to say it is the gun and not me. Until I can put more rounds down range, I will say it is me.
bnanaphone
04-10-13, 20:55
Damn that looks good, I'm glad you had the comparison photo with the MK18, that really sells how short the Tavor is.
As far as the recoil goes, look up the Israeli 6 point of contact method for holding the Tavor. I've heard this make a very stable platform when shooting and may help with the recoil.
Either way i cant wait to get ahold of one to call my own. I just wish I would stop getting sniped on Gunbroker trying to get one...
Yeah, that thing is a shorty! It is less than an inch shorter than that MK18 which is surprising, to me.
I will look further into the 6 point of contact method. I did happen to watch MAC's review and he demonstrated just that. When I tried to emulate it, it just felt weird. Although, I am 6'2" with ape-arms which could contribute to the feel.
I say try a reliable distributor to get a hold of one and don't play the gunbroker games, maybe Grant can hook you up. It is a great gun, just don't get taken for one.
Sadly, I did not have enough time to try for groups at 100. I just put my R-1 on top, which was nearly dead on at 50 yds from the start.
I will say that the recoil is a bit snappier than what I am use to, BCM 16" LW with H2 buffer & battlecomp. The Tavor seemed to come off target more easily between shots where my other AR was more controllable (had less muzzle movement). I think more range time will help cure muzzle control.
I hope this helps, let me know if you have any questions.
Could it be the battlecomp that is making the difference?
bnanaphone
04-11-13, 08:37
Could it be the battlecomp that is making the difference?
Yes, definitely. The BC with H2 buffer on the BCM middy make it an extremely soft and stable shooter. If you add the Vltor A5 into the mix, it is like shooting a .22 LR with very fast follow up shots.
Since the Tavor has a different operating system, it will be a matter of adding a brake and/or just get more trigger time to handle the recoil impulse better.
With the muzzle being that much closer to the shooter's face i wonder how the noise and concussion of a brake or comp is going to be?
bnanaphone
04-11-13, 11:21
It can't be as bad as being a LH shooter using a RH configured bullpup where my face is directly above and behind the ejection port (LH bolt is incoming).
I don't think it will be that bad, since the distance is right about the same as on the MK18. Thinking of going with the BCM brake after hearing positive reports on it.
....wondering if it suppresses well...
....wondering if it suppresses well...
MAC has a couple Youtube videos up running the Tavor suppressed. He says it runs well.
The FDE does look good, too.
Does it use AR mags?
bnanaphone
04-11-13, 13:05
The FDE does look good, too.
Does it use AR mags?
It does accept most AR magazines, I have read that there were some issues using a couple of the brands. I have only tried some D&H aluminum magazines with the Magpul follower and all were flawless.
ForTehNguyen
04-11-13, 20:57
The FDE does look good, too.
Does it use AR mags?
accepts pmags even
silentmark
04-11-13, 20:59
Picked up my IDF Tavor today
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/silentmark73/7FF13290-571E-44A4-8550-95C2244C3EC5-8412-00000D57063CA35B_zps4c4772b7.jpg
Picked up my IDF Tavor today
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/silentmark73/7FF13290-571E-44A4-8550-95C2244C3EC5-8412-00000D57063CA35B_zps4c4772b7.jpg
Drooooool.........
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