View Full Version : Don't hit a woman
Suwannee Tim
09-30-12, 20:58
Don't hit your wife, girlfriend, mom or dad. Probably better not to hit your kid. Presumably we all know this but someone I thought knew it didn't know it. His wife hit him with a belt, he hit her back. He left a mark, she didn't. He went to jail, she didn't. Two years later and $10K poorer from legal fees relating to the battery he found out that it is not all behind him. He plead to simple battery which is not domestic battery. He was assured he would retain his rights to own firearms. Wrong. The Feds regard simple battery as domestic battery if the victim was a family member. Now he has to sell an autosear to get another $10K to try to get this cleared up. One hell of a mess for sure.
Worst one I ever saw was when I worked security clearance for the county school board.
Mr Applicant had to bring a court ordered notarized letter from his ex wife where she admitted she filed a false police report of domestic battery on the advice of a friend in order to get a more favorable divorce settlement and custody.
The letter was extremely candid about how she made the entire thing up and that he never once laid a hand on her. Of course that letter only existed because she got caught lying, and rest assured that doesn't always happen.
But what is the cherry on the sundae? I send Mr. Applicants file over to arbitration (SOP for anyone with a arrest record of any kind regardless of disposition) which includes the court ordered admission of guilt on the part of his ex wife and dismissal of all charges and the 80% female arbitration committee decides "where there is smoke, there is fire" and concludes he probably just "got away with it."
The only silver lining is when he was informed that another applicant was hired for the position he applied for he had already gotten a job somewhere else.
I saw some truly vile and disgusting decisions when I worked there.
I'd run out of the house screaming like a little girl before hitting any family member, for this exact reason. No way I'd let a stupid mistake bar me from defensive arms for life.
It is for this very reason that I hope Frank Lautenberg gets his in the end. :mad:
I'd run out of the house screaming like a little girl before hitting any family member, for this exact reason. No way I'd let a stupid mistake bar me from defensive arms for life.
This. I had an Ex get drunk and lose it on me once. I got out the door with a few knots and a bloody nose but didn't lay a finger on her. Haven't seen her since, and am living happily ever after. I've known way too many girls that can get bruised up bad while we're both laughing and horsing around having fun. Unless my life is in danger I am hands off with aggressive females.
Magic_Salad0892
09-30-12, 22:09
My sister ****in' fights like a man. That shouldn't even count.
He plead to simple battery which is not domestic battery. He was assured he would retain his rights to own firearms. Wrong. The Feds regard simple battery as domestic battery if the victim was a family member.
Who "assured" him? Hopefully not his lawyer. I could have told him that would not be the case and I'm not a lawyer. If you're involved in anything relating to a domestic violence case, do not plead guilty to anything if you plan to retain your right to own firearms.
I saw some truly vile and disgusting decisions when I worked there.
And you of course reported this to the state agency, yes?
And you of course reported this to the state agency, yes?
Reported what, that a bunch of dumb bitches made some stupid bitch decisions? What makes you think the state agency isn't also run by dumb bitches?
In the grand scheme of things the only thing that really didn't fit was my job where I took the time to research the background on these people and present findings. The file I submitted seemed to factor about 5% of the decision and the other 95% seemed to be subjective to what those stupid bitches "believe" is the actual situation.
Applicants would have had a much fairer chance going up against a Magic 8 ball.
I learned early on that fairness and justice mean jack shit to the county, people are hired and paid primarily according to who they know and / or what they can do for the person hiring them.
While I was thankful to get and have the job at a time when I needed a good job, I saw a lot of appalling things for the first time in my life and I really wish I could have gotten a similar job in a more human environment.
Reported what, that a bunch of dumb bitches made some stupid bitch decisions? What makes you think the state agency isn't also run by dumb bitches?
In the grand scheme of things the only thing that really didn't fit was my job where I took the time to research the background on these people and present findings. The file I submitted seemed to factor about 5% of the decision and the other 95% seemed to be subjective to what those stupid bitches "believe" is the actual situation.
Applicants would have had a much fairer chance going up against a Magic 8 ball.
I learned early on that fairness and justice mean jack shit to the county, people are hired and paid primarily according to who they know and / or what they can do for the person hiring them.
While I was thankful to get and have the job at a time when I needed a good job, I saw a lot of appalling things for the first time in my life and I really wish I could have gotten a similar job in a more human environment.
Ok. A simple "no" would have sufficed.
Did you punch the bitches out?
QuietShootr
10-01-12, 10:28
I'd run out of the house screaming like a little girl before hitting any family member, for this exact reason. No way I'd let a stupid mistake bar me from defensive arms for life.
It is for this very reason that I hope Frank Lautenberg gets his in the end. :mad:
All of this.
The ****ed up thing is that it gets you no matter WHO gets hit. For instance, if your BIL the drunk gets in your face at Thanksgiving dinner and you knock him on his ass, YOU get screwed even if the prick hit you first.
Voodoo_Man
10-01-12, 10:36
del for opsec
QuietShootr
10-01-12, 10:43
edit...
You can still throw a punch in Oz without going to jail.
Voodoo_Man
10-01-12, 13:05
You mean like this officer from just across the bridge?
http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=news/local&id=8831156
Seen it, don't care much for the entire situation or the "festivities" that were present in that area.
quick google found me this...
http://i.imgur.com/6I8dc.gif
VooDoo6Actual
10-01-12, 13:14
panem et circenses unfortunately.
He does need to learn how to throw a left hook correctly however.
Seen it, don't care much for the entire situation or the "festivities" that were present in that area.
Didn't care for the festivities either. And as you may know I don't care much for the minorities ****ing up the city and it's surroundings. What that has to do with the prankster woman assaulted by that idiot I have no idea. As an officer, would you punch a woman in the face if she squirted you with water?
That aside, you should never make such a statement here as a public servant. If I need to tell you why, maybe run it by your shift commander and see what he thinks.
I've been burned by the mother of my son worse than any words I could offer here. She was vicious, scarred me for life. I know what a bitch is and don't appreciate them much these days. Ain't sticking up for the bad ones by any means, but we can safely assume the officer in that clip has thoughts fairly similar to yours, can we not? Now he is justifiably done, pension and all.
Voodoo_Man
10-01-12, 13:31
Didn't care for the festivities either. And as you may know I don't care much for the minorities ****ing up the city and it's surroundings. What that has to do with the prankster woman assaulted by that idiot I have no idea.
That aside, you should never make such a statement here as a public servant. If I need to tell you why, maybe run it by your shift commander and see what he thinks.
I've been burned by the mother of my son worse than any words I could offer here. She was vicious, scarred me for life. I know what a bitch is and don't appreciate them much these days. Ain't sticking up for the bad ones by any means, but we can safely assume the officer in that clip has thoughts fairly similar to yours, can we not? Now he is justifiably done, pension and all.
I agree about the statement, but I go to great lengths to make sure things online are anon.
Reported what, that a bunch of dumb bitches made some stupid bitch decisions? What makes you think the state agency isn't also run by dumb bitches?
Now that is damn funny.
The officer shouldn't have lost his cool. Just effect the arrest and move on.
As for the woman, play stupid games, win stupid prizes. :rolleyes:
QuietShootr
10-01-12, 14:08
edit on request
As an officer, would you punch a woman in the face if she squirted you with water?
That's called "assault on a peace officer". Just like spitting.
That's called "assault on a peace officer". Just like spitting.
Please. No man should punch a woman in the face simply because she squirted him from 10 feet away with a water bottle, let alone a policeman. You know it but just have to defend your cause. If he were white and she black, you'd be yapping away.
Please. No man should punch a woman in the face simply because she squirted him from 10 feet away with a water bottle, let alone a policeman. You know it but just have to defend your cause. If he were white and she black, you'd be yapping away.
What would you have had the officer do instead? Just curious.
Eurodriver
10-01-12, 15:32
What would you have had the officer do instead? Just curious.
Shot her.
All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.
Suwannee Tim
10-01-12, 15:46
Who "assured" him? Hopefully not his lawyer. .......
His lawyer.
What would you have had the officer do instead? Just curious.
I would have told her she was under arrest, placed her hands behind her back, put her into my patrol vehicle, taken her to the station and charged her accordingly.
Was that a serious question?
I would like someone to walk up to a group of LE and throw water in trheir faces and then report back with the results...:D
Bwahahaha!
And as you may know I don't care much for the minorities ****ing up the city and it's surroundings.
I hope they keep fornicating and spread like roaches! I love that this sticks in your craw. :D
MW
Littlelebowski
10-01-12, 16:10
I hope they keep fornicating and spread like roaches! I love that this sticks in your craw. :D
MW
I'm sorry we are still seeing shit like what you responded to in this day and age, MW.
I'm sorry we are still seeing shit like what you responded to in this day and age, MW.
LB,
I was being sarcastic. :smile:
SH's posts are ALWAYS about race. I saw a cop hit a hippie for playing a stupid game. Then of course, the real issue came to light, race...
Result? She won a stupid prize. Would he have posted the same thing had the reverse been true re the race of the LEO and hippie? No. It goes to pattern.
I have a deal with the local LE...they don't tell me how to manage money for a living and I don't tell them how to enforce the law for a living. So it all works out.
MW
MW
LB,
Obviously, your good with his posts...since there was no mention. Are you in agreement with what he says now and historically? :confused:
I'm sorry we are still seeing shit like what you responded to in this day and age, MW.
There was more to my response, but maybe you didn't witness our past discussions. He has an agenda when it comes to black accountability, trust me.
Littlelebowski
10-01-12, 16:22
LB,
Obviously, your good with his posts...since there was no mention. Are you in agreement with what he says now and historically? :confused:
Huh? You should look at my recent posts, dude. Since I think you might have me wrong on this issue, I'll clarify. I don't think minorities **** up a city, race means far less to me and I think that environment means far more than genetics. It ****ing kills me that we see racism on gun forums as if we as gun owners don't already have a bad enough public image as it is.
I would like someone to walk up to a group of LE and throw water in trheir faces and then report back with the results.
She didn't throw water in anyone's face. You lie and distort to serve your biased, fact ignoring viewpoints. Absolutely no way that woman deserved that and you show your true motives by supporting such a travesty of law.
Keep quoting my concerns over minorities destroying our cities while criticizing my defense of this Puerto Rican woman. Shows where your head is.
There was more to my response, but maybe you didn't witness our past discussions. He has an agenda when it comes to black accountability, trust me.
Bwahahahahaahaa!
We all seem to think something we "post" on an internet forum, is going to change opinions/ views, the course of our lives. It's not.
SH, I can only be accountable for "me". That's about the extent of it. Sorry dude.
I wish things, situations, kids didn't get sick and die, people could get along, etc.
Black people are not the "root of all evil". If they all disappeared tomorrow...every problem in America today and all over the world would still be here. The war wouldn't stop, economy would still be broken, gas prices would still be inflated, etc...
I wish EVERYONE was accountable for their actions. Sadly? Not the case.
I dunno...thoughts?
Huh? You should look at my recent posts, dude. Since I think you might have me wrong on this issue, I'll clarify. I don't think minorities **** up a city, race means far less to me and I think that environment means far more than genetics. It ****ing kills me that we see racism on gun forums as if we as gun owners don't already have a bad enough public image as it is.
Agreed, 100%...
MW
SWATcop556
10-01-12, 16:36
This one is quickly jumping the shark. Let's get back OT quick like.
Huh? I don't think minorities **** up a city, race means far less to me and I think that environment means far more than genetics.
Well guess what blogmaster, you're wrong yet again. Seriously, your baseless idealogical comments have become tiresome. You offer no real solutions to any scenario, often having nothing but one dimensional viewpoints to offer. And what is your closest inner city area by the way, Disneyworld?
Thankfully I at least have the ability to stand in the middle and am comfortable telling it like it is. Give it a try sometime.
FChen17213
10-01-12, 16:57
The real moral of the story? Run! Seriously, run when you see a woman. I work in the legal system. Women can mess you up good with a few false accusations and get restraining orders, criminal charges etc etc filed against you. Many will lead to the end of your gun rights.
I know it sounds extreme but I avoid any encounter with any woman in any private or semi-private place. It is just too dangerous. All she has to do is make some claim that you tried to touch her inappropriately, and you're screwed. I have seen criminal charges and even people convicted solely based on the testimony of a woman. Yes, complete BS "he said" vs "she said" cases. Believe me when I say that men are extremely vulnerable in our society today legally. There are always that group of people out there who will say, "Why would she make something like that up?" Women do....for many different reasons.
We can only protect ourselves the best we can, and as far as hitting a woman goes? Don't hit a woman. Women give us enough trouble as it is. Minimize interactions and run. If you have to speak to a woman, try to do it in a public place. If in your office, try to have a conspicuous camera. Let the woman know that she is being taped and that it is for both yours and her protection.
Man, you guys run with a rough crowd of women! How do you ever go on a date? Heaven forbid the night goes well and you want to kiss her.
I'd never hit a woman regardless of what she was doing to me (hitting, spitting, kicking), I'd just leave the situation post haste!
Now, in regards to another male hitting, spitting or otherwise trying to inflict damage to me... (nearly) all bets are off. Why? Because I carry a gun every day for hells sake. Not that a gun is the answer to every problem, I'm not saying that at all, but if someone comes at me and incapacitates me with a punch, now they have full and free access to a gun.
I think there is just as much responsibility in protecting your weapon as there is in deciding if you need to use it.
Littlelebowski
10-01-12, 20:47
Well guess what blogmaster, you're wrong yet again. Seriously, your baseless idealogical comments have become tiresome. You offer no real solutions to any scenario, often having nothing but one dimensional viewpoints to offer. And what is your closest inner city area by the way, Disneyworld?
Thankfully I at least have the ability to stand in the middle and am comfortable telling it like it is. Give it a try sometime.
You feel comfortable standing there bleating about others who discuss something better than the current status quo and inner city area? Really? Are you that pathetic to try that line in order to make yourself feel superior? My already low opinion of you just reached new comical depths. What are you, doing big government conservative outreach to the inner cities of New Jersey? Perhaps extolling the merits of accepting the two party system to the New Jersey unions? How brave. How heroic.
Oh yeah, my nearest inner city is Washington DC. Just spent two months there working.
Blowhards like you ruin General Discussion. When was the last time you picked up a gun or contributed to a gun discussion on here? While you have been whining on here about those libertarians that annoy you, I've been shooting and I goddamned sure wish we could settle your annoying, high pitched complaining with a postal match. Name the carbine or handgun drill, I'll out shoot you and on video.
Pick up the gauntlet or shut the **** up and quit your whining.
Moose-Knuckle
10-02-12, 03:37
http://imageshack.us/a/img41/3281/thomasderail.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/41/thomasderail.jpg/)
So how did we get from the travesity of assault family violence M/A to dick measuring contests . . . :confused:
Magic_Salad0892
10-02-12, 04:37
http://imageshack.us/a/img41/3281/thomasderail.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/41/thomasderail.jpg/)
So how did we get from the travesity of assault family violence M/A to dick measuring contests . . . :confused:
That's a sweet pic. I spent almost $200 on Thomas the Train toys for my nephews for Christmas last year.
watched a lady beating on a guy one time when I lived in the Caribbean
the island guy I was working for was with me so asked him what was up with that ?
he laughed and in this thick carib accent said
ya mon you beat on dem woman day can beat ya back ! plus da man knows he has to go to sleep sometime and dat woman have a machete so best just to take dem beatings
QuietShootr
10-02-12, 08:12
The real moral of the story? Run! Seriously, run when you see a woman. I work in the legal system. Women can mess you up good with a few false accusations and get restraining orders, criminal charges etc etc filed against you. Many will lead to the end of your gun rights.
I know it sounds extreme but I avoid any encounter with any woman in any private or semi-private place. It is just too dangerous. All she has to do is make some claim that you tried to touch her inappropriately, and you're screwed. I have seen criminal charges and even people convicted solely based on the testimony of a woman. Yes, complete BS "he said" vs "she said" cases. Believe me when I say that men are extremely vulnerable in our society today legally. There are always that group of people out there who will say, "Why would she make something like that up?" Women do....for many different reasons.
We can only protect ourselves the best we can, and as far as hitting a woman goes? Don't hit a woman. Women give us enough trouble as it is. Minimize interactions and run. If you have to speak to a woman, try to do it in a public place. If in your office, try to have a conspicuous camera. Let the woman know that she is being taped and that it is for both yours and her protection.
I'd add "Other people's kids" to that 'to be taped' list, and you'll about have it covered.
It's a good idea to use one of the recording apps on your phone if you have a private conversation with a strange female (or one who might be pissed at you later).
Sorry you have essentially resorted to "I'll beat you up" there LL. But it's ok because I've seen pictures of you so I'm not worried. Unless you plan to shoot me, perhaps.
Anyway, apparently you've joined the ranks of those trying to blame people like us for this countries very serious inner city issues. Sadly you believe that there would be no trouble in that regard if we just gave them more opportunity.
You know why there are very few viable businesses are left in Camden NJ, a once thriving mid sized city? The increasing number of minority citizens themselves drove them out via robberies, graffiti and open air drug sales. The opportunities were in place when they came and they themselves actually destroyed most their venues for local financial and social prosperity.
These are facts, I am only relaying them. And considering you tend to want to hide from certain realities you get called on it from time to time, no big deal. Wasn't looking to come get you or anything there sport.
Littlelebowski
10-02-12, 09:23
Sport, I didn't say who blamed for the mess that is the inner cities of America. A large part of it rests upon the shoulders of LBJ (we are now on fifth generation welfare families) but city and state gov'ts have a part to play in the blame game as well. Don't tell me that the city council didn't have a huge part to play in driving businesses out as does NJ's union friendly climate. Ever wonder why Toyota, Honda, Boeing, etc aren't building factories in New Jersey? Hint: it's not the inner city minorities......
This is a gun forum, first and foremost. I think it makes perfect sense to have postal matches for folks that argue. I'll ante up. I'll even write up an article on the 5.45 AR for my much maligned blog. You know, that idea of adding to the technical discussion of guns and shooting? I know you don't talk much about either but do try it; it's much nicer than talking politics.
But hey, keep on preaching the truth about maintaining the status quo whilst I run and hide! When either big gov't party gets in power, be sure to whimper: "don't blame me, it's those libertarians that didn't do enough. Me, my modus operandi is to do nothing so I'm not to blame!". Good luck with your inner city heroics. I look forward to hearing about the change you've wrought. Maybe you'll go shooting this year and tell us about it, eh?
pilotguyo540
10-02-12, 11:50
I was hit with a domestic violence restraining order (temporary) by my ex last week, because I made her pick up the kids at my house. She wanted to teach me a lesson, so she went to the court house and claimed I was intimidating. There were some bullshit lies thrown in for good measure.
I had 24 hours to sell or turn in my firearms. All without my due process. I had to sell. Talking with the people at the sheriffs office, it sounded like I would never get them back, no matter how the case turns out.
I cant even see my kids for 3 weeks because they are protected parties. The evil bitch is using this to punish me, and also renegotiate child support, alimony, and custody.
In the words of my dad, "its the price you pay for the ass you lay."
It's beyond simplistic that you rant about shooting more than me and use this in attempt to bolster your misguided idealogical opinions. Rest assured I have several firearms and shoot them often. Never been one to photograph myself shooting or have someone do so, but I'm out there. And I do live in NJ, so don't care to do much flaunting of some things. Firearms have been in my life forever, had my own 410 and 22 mag Blackhawk by age 10 and have been going strong ever since. Sport.
All done going round with you. The woman shouldn't have been punched. That is the only point I was looking to convey and mentioned my concern about minorities in the city to add full context to my defense of the minority woman.
Littlelebowski
10-02-12, 12:02
Good luck with the idealogy, sport. Guess I'll put the gauntlet back on. Carry on with your good work. You add a lot to this firearms forum.
And while I agree that democrats have taxed many to death in their cities, that aspect of the problem does nothing to address the dire social enviorments often fostered by minorities.
And really, you talk to me as though I'm a hater while ignoring the fact that I am just pointing out the obvious. I don't like it, it doesn't make me feel superior to say these things. It's a terrible, sad situation. But how can any problem be addressed if it makes people too uncomfortable to talk about it?
Littlelebowski
10-02-12, 12:14
Oh ****.... Here we go again. Do you think that perhaps the death of inner city industry also might have something to do with say....emerging Third World factories? Just maybe? Or is it mainly due to the pesky brown people of the inner city?
I don't think you're a "hater." I think you have a simplistic view that you bolster with with personal beliefs that lack any sort of factual basis and you've never bothered getting attempting to learn the true cause of that which you decry.
It's not exactly hidden data on LBJ's "Great Society," the export of US manufacturing jobs, the stifling business climate of many large US cities, nor the costs of union dominated state legislatures yet you continue to blather on about "inner city minorities." Get off your ass and do some reading since you're not going shooting, you're not endeavoring to effect any change anywhere, and will most likely die in front of a TV set as I'm getting the strong whiff of a sedentary lifestyle as evidenced by your lackluster research even when attempting an intellectual discussion.
FChen17213
10-02-12, 12:28
Yes, I missed that as well. You can add children to the woman equation too. If some child accused you of inappropriate behavior? You're screwed. Period. Then you just might wind up in prison as a "chester." Once you get to prison, you'll be mercilessly beaten up, shanked, and killed. The rest of the world will probably celebrate too since "chesters" are lower than the lowest of the low. All for something you didn't even do.
I can't say about other jurisdictions, but in my own jurisdiction, a woman can have an ex parte hearing without you even being there for a TRO (temporary restraining order). The District Court Judge can grant the order, including requiring you to surrender or destroy all your firearms, CCW, all firearm permits etc. ALL AT AN EX PARTE HEARING! Now they do require a real hearing with you being present within 10 days but at that point, the damage may very well already be done.
It's a dangerous dangerous minefield for us men these days....don't make it even worse than it already is.
I don't think you're a "hater." I think you have a simplistic view that you bolster with with personal beliefs that lack any sort of factual basis and you've never bothered getting attempting to learn the true cause of that which you decry.
Do you believe we have a serious issue in America with inner city crime rates? Assuming you do, what percentage of responsibility would you assess to those that live there and either commit these crimes or foster their environment?
Obviously you won't say 100% and neither would I, so what would you estimate their degree of personal responsibility to be? Genuinely curious since I find your viewpoint fascinating in addition to somewhat frustrating. Not talking about individuals as much as the whole, simple answer requiring only a number.
Littlelebowski
10-02-12, 13:07
I don't think you're getting past your argument that inner city brown people = less business.
My argument is honestly the crime does not matter with regards to businesses; it's ultimately the high cost of doing business in the US and particularly heavily regulated, union friendly cities. I've already pointed where in the US the foreign companies are building factories and it's not in New Jersey. Care to hazard a guess why? Do you really think that crime rates of inner city minorities play even a nominal role into why a company eschews certain large cities as opposed to unions, taxes, and regulations?
Reminds me of that book that scares you (http://www.amazon.com/Atlas-Shrugged-Centennial-Edition-ebook/dp/B003V8B5XO).
I was hit with a domestic violence restraining order (temporary) by my ex last week, because I made her pick up the kids at my house. She wanted to teach me a lesson, so she went to the court house and claimed I was intimidating. There were some bullshit lies thrown in for good measure.
I had 24 hours to sell or turn in my firearms. All without my due process. I had to sell. Talking with the people at the sheriffs office, it sounded like I would never get them back, no matter how the case turns out.
I cant even see my kids for 3 weeks because they are protected parties. The evil bitch is using this to punish me, and also renegotiate child support, alimony, and custody.
In the words of my dad, "its the price you pay for the ass you lay."
If I were in your position, I'd leverage my ass to the hilt if necessary, beg, borrow, whatever it took to hire the nastiest, meanest, most evil attorney in the whole state to take it to her ass in the legal system. If you have the resources, there are lots of things that can be done that are perfectly legal.
I'd never speak a single bad word about her, especially in front of your kids. I'd record every attempt she made to communicate with you, but I'd never speak a single word to her. Let your mouthpiece take a ball bat to her in the courts. Every time you stick it to her is one more opportunity to make her lose it and then you win.
Make sure she knows that when you **** with a man's rights, you're gonna pay dearly. :mad:
My sister ****in' fights like a man. That shouldn't even count.
no joke dude..... my sister and I are 14 months apart, and we were the only kids in our rural neighborhood, plus we didnt have any cousins our age that lived close by so we grew up together and did all the stupid shit together..... which included her shooting me with a BB gun then calling me a wussy for crying about it(we were 7 at the time), then me proceeding to thump the hell out of her....
My parents just shook their heads....
Ok dude, you got it. A city's rampant crime has little to no effect on it's business environment, either exclusive to those specific areas or overall. And it's dysfunctional citizens don't vote in politicians who only speed up the destruction via taxes and entitlements while turning a blind eye to the real issues that start at home.
Will never waste our time like this again, you simply aren't worth it. Now back to the hazards of smacking women, sorry for the derail folks.
Littlelebowski
10-02-12, 13:46
http://theoatmeal.com/comics/apostrophe
I was hit with a domestic violence restraining order (temporary) by my ex last week, because I made her pick up the kids at my house. She wanted to teach me a lesson, so she went to the court house and claimed I was intimidating. There were some bullshit lies thrown in for good measure.
I had 24 hours to sell or turn in my firearms. All without my due process. I had to sell. Talking with the people at the sheriffs office, it sounded like I would never get them back, no matter how the case turns out.
I cant even see my kids for 3 weeks because they are protected parties. The evil bitch is using this to punish me, and also renegotiate child support, alimony, and custody.
In the words of my dad, "its the price you pay for the ass you lay."
If you can prove she committed perjury, she'll have a felony on her record and go to jail for a few years. You can then sue her ass, probably for defamation and maybe a few other things.
Good luck with that though. Fight it, don't give in. You can again legally own firearms after the RO is lifted, but you can never again own firearms if you are convicted of domestic violence, at least according to federal law.
Next time it happens, give legal possession of your firearms to a trusted family member, if possible. :)
I was hit with a domestic violence restraining order (temporary) by my ex last week, because I made her pick up the kids at my house. She wanted to teach me a lesson, so she went to the court house and claimed I was intimidating. There were some bullshit lies thrown in for good measure.
I had 24 hours to sell or turn in my firearms. All without my due process. I had to sell. Talking with the people at the sheriffs office, it sounded like I would never get them back, no matter how the case turns out.
I cant even see my kids for 3 weeks because they are protected parties. The evil bitch is using this to punish me, and also renegotiate child support, alimony, and custody.
In the words of my dad, "its the price you pay for the ass you lay."
This exact same thing happened to me three, repeat three, times. Pure spiritual devastation doesn't describe, especially and primarily when you honestly did nothing wrong and love your children dearly. The firearm confiscations are a side hardship with kids involved, but very significant.
You no longer feel safe in your own home and after three confiscations I am still unnerved despite my close friends at the dept and my membership on a superior court board. Sometimes when I hear multiple car doors close outside quickly I have to look to see if they are coming again, even though I now have custody of my son and have repaired the relationship with his once highly destructive mother.
Please feel free to PM me if you want some positive first hand insight. I would be happy to help if I can.
and have repaired the relationship with his once highly destructive mother.
Why in the hell would you ever do that?!?
If I were in your position, I'd leverage my ass to the hilt if necessary, beg, borrow, whatever it took to hire the nastiest, meanest, most evil attorney in the whole state to take it to her ass in the legal system. If you have the resources, there are lots of things that can be done that are perfectly legal.
I'd never speak a single bad word about her, especially in front of your kids. I'd record every attempt she made to communicate with you, but I'd never speak a single word to her. Let your mouthpiece take a ball bat to her in the courts. Every time you stick it to her is one more opportunity to make her lose it and then you win.
Make sure she knows that when you **** with a man's rights, you're gonna pay dearly. :mad:
The fundamental problem here is most lawyers will take a womans case on contingency. So she can usually get a more aggressive lawyer for FREE than one you can hire. Add to that most men try and protect assets to provide for the future of their kids and just want out as painlessly as possible.
The fundamental problem here is most lawyers will take a womans case on contingency. So she can usually get a more aggressive lawyer for FREE than one you can hire. Add to that most men try and protect assets to provide for the future of their kids and just want out as painlessly as possible.
Wait are we taking criminal or civil court? She's just a complaining witness in a domestic violence case, the state being "her" attorney.
Why in the hell would you ever do that?!?
Not like that, we are not together in the least. We now work together as parents and she respects me as my son's father who always places him first. She didn't by a long shot 6+ years ago, but she has learned, matured, has a 3 year functioning relationship with a good man who is nice to my son, and fully realizes that if she ever tries such a thing again I will restrict her visitation, which is every weekend instead of the every other weekend imposed by the court.
The hard earned peace is priceless beyond words, but it is achievable and this is what I want to emphasize to our hurting friend.
If you can prove she committed perjury, she'll have a felony on her record and go to jail for a few years.
Highly unlikely, based upon my experience. Courts generally don't seem to give a rats ass about justice. Everyone just wants to clear the docket. Perjury is one of those things that seems to only be used when the prosecuting attorney is feeling vindictive.
To Pilot, there is one immediate recourse at your disposal now if you have any concern for your children's well being or safety as I did. You call the police and request a check on the welfare of a child at her address. Disclose the TRO but advise them you have genuine concern. Also ask that they call you afterward with a report.
It does several things. First, it shows her that you are there and that you won't go down without a fight. It also shows that the police can easily invade their space as they did yours. It also is embarrassing to them regarding the neighbors, but is something you don't want to make a habit for the sake of the children if possible. After hours is sometimes best, because it keeps the check low key, may catch them doing something they don't anticipate and avoids embarrassing the child.
Never abuse the privilege, use it wisely.
Wait are we taking criminal or civil court? She's just a complaining witness in a domestic violence case, the state being "her" attorney.
Depending upon the state, it could be a bit of both. The ex parte protection order is usually civil and there may be a civil tie-in to the charge of threats/intimidation, which is usually a misdemeanor. It's common to have the civil and criminal cases both heard at the same time, by the same judge.
pilotguyo540
10-02-12, 16:25
Thanks for the responses by everyone. This is the second time through this crap. Last time I was able to call in for emergency mediation, and get my kids dropped from the restraining order. Once that leverage was gone, she gave up and dropped the case.
I have a legal plan of attack, and I hope this comes up and bites her in the ass pretty hard. I don't wan to go into too much detail in a public forum.
As for the firearms transfers in CA, the restraining order reads as follows: "you cannot own, possess, have, buy, or try to buy,receive or try to receive, or in any other way get guns, other firearms, or ammunition.
You must:
sell to licensed gun dealer or turn in to a law enforcement agency any guns or other firearms within your immediate possession or control. This must be done within 24 hours of being served with this order."
It may be time to brush up on constitutional law, but this cant be constitutional. Keep in mind that this is a temporary order until my hearing.
Thanks for the responses by everyone. This is the second time through this crap. Last time I was able to call in for emergency mediation, and get my kids dropped from the restraining order. Once that leverage was gone, she gave up and dropped the case.
I have a legal plan of attack, and I hope this comes up and bites her in the ass pretty hard. I don't wan to go into too much detail in a public forum.
As for the firearms transfers in CA, the restraining order reads as follows: "you cannot own, possess, have, buy, or try to buy,receive or try to receive, or in any other way get guns, other firearms, or ammunition.
You must:
sell to licensed gun dealer or turn in to a law enforcement agency any guns or other firearms within your immediate possession or control. This must be done within 24 hours of being served with this order."
It may be time to brush up on constitutional law, but this cant be constitutional. Keep in mind that this is a temporary order until my hearing.
You can always sell all of them to your attorney for a dollar, with a contract to either return them for same upon resolution of the order, or legally liquidate them for you if it sticks permanently.
I fail to see how they could ever dispute that option. I know for a fact that CDL's in my state may take possession of a defendant's firearms pending adjudication of a felony case.
FChen17213
10-02-12, 16:41
Just a quick FYI: Attorneys are not allowed to take criminal cases on contingency fees. Also, we are not allowed to handle most divorce/family law cases on contingency either. You can't have some setup where if the guy gets off, you get paid more. If he is found guilty, you get paid less. Similarly, you can't have some setup where if the person successfully gets a divorce, you get paid more. If unsuccessful, you get paid less. Both are ethics violations which will get you in trouble with the bar. Now I am not totally sure but you might be able to do something where the amount of alimony awarded or settlement for something is based on a contingency fee. It has been too long since I've been involved in family law so I honestly don't remember.
Wait are we taking criminal or civil court? She's just a complaining witness in a domestic violence case, the state being "her" attorney.
Usually these cases are, or will be, related to a divorce.
This is the second time through this crap.
If it were me, I'd talk with my lawyer about setting up an offense and grinding her into the dust in every way possible so that it will never happen again.
Not like that, we are not together in the least. We now work together as parents and she respects me as my son's father who always places him first. She didn't by a long shot 6+ years ago, but she has learned, matured, has a 3 year functioning relationship with a good man who is nice to my son, and fully realizes that if she ever tries such a thing again I will restrict her visitation, which is every weekend instead of the every other weekend imposed by the court.
The hard earned peace is priceless beyond words, but it is achievable and this is what I want to emphasize to our hurting friend.
That is the part I take issue with, it is almost never true. And even if it were, how could you ever forgive somebody who did something as horrible to you as that? Especially the person you trusted the most with your well being.
I also would NEVER, EVER, EVER subject my child to a relationship with a person who has demonstrated they are capable of such a thing.
You can always sell all of them to your attorney for a dollar, with a contract to either return them for same upon resolution of the order, or legally liquidate them for you if it sticks permanently.
I fail to see how they could ever dispute that option. I know for a fact that CDL's in my state may take possession of a defendant's firearms pending adjudication of a felony case.
May not be a CA option. If you sell them to a family member out of state and they go through a FFL that should satisfy the state requirement however.
That is the part I take issue with, it is almost never true.
...
I also would NEVER, EVER, EVER subject my child to a relationship with a person who has demonstrated they are capable of such a thing.
The fable of the frog and the scorpion comes to mind.
For those who've never heard of it:
"A scorpion and a frog meet on the bank of a stream and the scorpion asks the frog to carry him across on its back. The frog asks, "How do I know you won't sting me?" The scorpion says, "Because if I do, I will die too."
The frog is satisfied, and they set out, but in midstream, the scorpion stings the frog. The frog feels the onset of paralysis and starts to sink, knowing they both will drown, but has just enough time to gasp "Why?"
Replies the scorpion: "Its my nature..."
The point of the story being that the nature of some people is what it is, and will never change, regardless of how they're treated or the consequences. They may be able to repress it for a time, but it's always there.
That is the part I take issue with, it is almost never true. And even if it were, how could you ever forgive somebody who did something as horrible to you as that? Especially the person you trusted the most with your well being.
I understand your comment, prayed justice would prevail and somehow it happened. Probably the fact that I exposed her legally, she went from being a self centered and extremely attractive club dancer (not stripper) to what is now a semi-overweight mother of a third child who is an adorable, chubby cheeked little girl that loves my son and clings to him dramatically at only 1 year old (an honorable buffer).
But make no mistake, she also now fears me and what I can do legally if she tries the diabolics again. Not what I wanted overall but it helps.
I also would NEVER, EVER, EVER subject my child to a relationship with a person who has demonstrated they are capable of such a thing.
Neither would I unless I was certain of the circumstance.
The point of the story being that the nature of some people is what it is, and will never change, regardless of how they're treated or the consequences. They may be able to repress it for a time, but it's always there.
I worked at a nursing home for a while and took a lot away from it !
met a lady who was on the Titanic !
met some other people with amazing stories all knowing this was the last stop and often talked and asked a lot of questions about life with them !
some things were common live life when you are young do the things you want to do when you are young cause when you are older you are not going to want to jump off cliffs and swim rapids and do things you would do in your youth !
the other you marry the family !!! and look at the person you like their friends who they hang out with and how they act cause that is their true nature ! and you cant change people ! if you do or try it wont last and things will become a mess !!
people change but the nature of them does not !!
all I can say is I am glad I waited till I was in my 30s to get married and still very happily married just shy of 50
my parents are going on 60 years married my wifes parents also going on 60 years married
maybe the stuff I learned was wrong but seems to be working
all I know is stories like some here when kids get involved must be so tough !!! cant imagine what its like !!! two thumbs up to you that are going through this for sure
and not faulting anyone !!! just saying WOW glad its not me cause not sure what I would do ?
my brother comes from a wife like some of you mentioned total frigin psycho !!!!! so I saw a lot of this stuff first hand !
the fake reports and such
maybe that is why my brother is a prosecutor now ? and really looks at the cases from both sides with a total open view point ! cause he was on the other side
The law was never meant to stop any violence. It was just a socially acceptable way for the gun grabbers to strip gun owners of there rights. When people tell me that criminals should never have guns they need to understand, it is not that hard to become one, especially since the fed congress passes 5000 new laws a year not to mention state legislators.
Neither would I unless I was certain of the circumstance.
But she already DID it. I would have NOTHING to do with somebody who already DID it regardless of if they have actually changed or not. Certainly I wouldn't allow my child anywhere near them.
Has she even told your child what she did to you so that he would have fair warning? If not, she hasn't changed enough.
Moose-Knuckle
10-02-12, 18:39
. . . it is not that hard to become one, especially since the fed congress passes 5000 new laws a year not to mention state legislators.
Truth.
You Commit Three Felonies a Day:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704471504574438900830760842.html
Magic_Salad0892
10-02-12, 18:56
no joke dude..... my sister and I are 14 months apart, and we were the only kids in our rural neighborhood, plus we didnt have any cousins our age that lived close by so we grew up together and did all the stupid shit together..... which included her shooting me with a BB gun then calling me a wussy for crying about it(we were 7 at the time), then me proceeding to thump the hell out of her....
My parents just shook their heads....
People back home didn't like it when me and my sister got in a fist fight at a funeral. We were laughing, but couldn't figure out why they wanted us to leave.
But she already DID it. I would have NOTHING to do with somebody who already DID it regardless of if they have actually changed or not. Certainly I wouldn't allow my child anywhere near them.
Has she even told your child what she did to you so that he would have fair warning? If not, she hasn't changed enough.
You're a smart guy but appear to be out of your realm of expertise regarding co-parenting. Sometimes you have to take what you can get and I have been extremely fortunate all things considered.
Suwannee Tim
10-02-12, 19:59
People back home didn't like it when me and my sister got in a fist fight at a funeral. We were laughing, but couldn't figure out why they wanted us to leave.
My guess, they wanted you to leave because you were fist fighting and laughing at a funeral.
Magic_Salad0892
10-02-12, 20:52
My guess, they wanted you to leave because you were fist fighting and laughing at a funeral.
Weird. You'd think they'd have a sense of humor about things like that. Plus. It was our family member. That gives us kind of a free pass right?
You're a smart guy but appear to be out of your realm of expertise regarding co-parenting. Sometimes you have to take what you can get and I have been extremely fortunate all things considered.
I guess you are still missing what I'm saying. If a woman did that to me...(domestic violence restraining order and confiscation of all my guns), let alone THREE TIMES and caused, as you put it "Pure spiritual devastation" I wouldn't want her to be a co parent. I wouldn't want to know her at all, and I sure as shit wouldn't want such a piece of shit around my children.
And I'm hardly out of my realm on this one, there are many family members who are no longer involved in my life in any way, shape or form because there is a line of conduct that once crossed cannot be crossed back over. If she molested your kids, would you still take what you have got? I think the kind of betrayal you described is on that order of magnitude only it was done to you and not your children (thankfully).
Again, has she told your children what she did to you? Have you told your children what she did to you?
Weird. You'd think they'd have a sense of humor about things like that. Plus. It was our family member. That gives us kind of a free pass right?
Not really, no.
Everyone expresses and deals with grief in their own way, but imagine the funeral of your very best friend and his two kids taking the opportunity to **** around and play grab ass games.
I guess you are still missing what I'm saying. If a woman did that to me...(domestic violence restraining order and confiscation of all my guns), let alone THREE TIMES and caused, as you put it "Pure spiritual devastation" I wouldn't want her to be a co parent. I wouldn't want to know her at all, and I sure as shit wouldn't want such a piece of shit around my children.
Me neither, that's why I did what I did. Your ranting to me like I didn't fight my own personal world war with her to protect my son.
Again, has she told your children what she did to you? Have you told your children what she did to you?
My son was 2.5 years old when we split and today has no memory of anything that happened during those two difficult years. Considering the damage my parents did to me via countless fights and overall domestic issues over the course of my entire childhood, if my son grows to only know that he has two parents that love him and are respectful to each other then I have killed the dreaded monster from my past. My sister fell victim and is now loud and abusive like the rest of them, which is very unfortunate for her daughter.
Me neither, that's why I did what I did. Your ranting to me like I didn't fight my own personal world war with her to protect my son.
I'm not suggesting you fight a war, I'm mystified why you would have anything at all to do with such a person, let alone allow them near your children. I think I've comprehensibly expressed my views but for some reason you haven't arrived at a similar conclusion. I'm not ranting, I'm baffled.
I also don't have anything to gain beyond the warnings I've already expressed so I will leave it at that.
My son was 2.5 years old when we split and today has no memory of anything that happened during those two difficult years. Considering the damage my parents did to me via countless fights and overall domestic issues over the course of my entire childhood, if my son grows to only know that he has two parents that love him and are respectful to each other then I have killed the dreaded monster from my past. My sister fell victim and is now loud and abusive like the rest of them, which is very unfortunate for her daughter.
If you choose that POV, that is your option. It is IMO an incredibly dangerous POV. Nobody warned me about the destructive people in my family, I had to learn about them the hard way with my misplaced trust. My experiences were made worse when I found out "after the fact" that other people had been put through similar situations with these people. Keep in mind kids are generally not on guard for this shit and without any warnings they are completely vulnerable.
I'm only offering you my experiences and some hard earned lessons I've seen others go through.
I'm not suggesting you fight a war, I'm mystified why you would have anything at all to do with such a person, let alone allow them near your children. I think I've comprehensibly expressed my views but for some reason you haven't arrived at a similar conclusion. I'm not ranting, I'm baffled.
I also don't have anything to gain beyond the warnings I've already expressed so I will leave it at that.
Maybe because a court of law has said he has to? He did mention court ordered visitation rights every other week (which he has expanded to once a week or something similar; probably to avoid issues flaring up in front of the boy I would guess).
Not a nice situation, but sometimes you cannot always do what you want to do when the courts get involved.
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The law was never meant to stop any violence. It was just a socially acceptable way for the gun grabbers to strip gun owners of there rights. When people tell me that criminals should never have guns they need to understand, it is not that hard to become one, especially since the fed congress passes 5000 new laws a year not to mention state legislators.
Exactly, government produces nothing but crime & punishment!
I'm not suggesting you fight a war, I'm mystified why you would have anything at all to do with such a person, let alone allow them near your children. I think I've comprehensibly expressed my views but for some reason you haven't arrived at a similar conclusion. I'm not ranting, I'm baffled.
I also don't have anything to gain beyond the warnings I've already expressed so I will leave it at that.
Do you know what you sound like? Think of a politician sitting in an air conditioned room making combat related decisions for someone thousands of miles away fighting an enemy the politician has little to no intelligence on. And while I don't expect anyone to pat me on the back, your harsh and unfounded criticisms are rather unappreciated.
New Jersey is known to be one of the most mother favoring states in the nation regarding custody of children. I have custody of a child that his mother fought aggressively and diabolically for. The odds were against me, especially when my funds ran out and I had to go it alone without an attorney.
She is not the same person today she was years ago. Some of it is because she matured, some of it because we both want what's best for him and some of it because while she knows I will drop the hammer if needed, I also reward her with extra time and kindness when she is doing the right thing. My son has never seen us fight since early age three, now at 8 he only knows his mom and dad as people who like each other and who help each other here and there because we love him.
Lastly she is his mother and both she and his new baby sister need to be part of his life. To try to deny him that would be disgracefully selfish unless abolsolutely necessary. And being that I reported her to family services three times several years ago and put all of us in that system to hold her accountable, I know where and when to draw the line.
Do you know what you sound like? Think of a politician sitting in an air conditioned room making combat related decisions for someone thousands of miles away fighting an enemy the politician has little to no intelligence on. And while I don't expect anyone to pat me on the back, your harsh and unfounded criticisms are rather unappreciated.
Don't make the mistake of thinking I have no understanding of this matter.
New Jersey is known to be one of the most mother favoring states in the nation regarding custody of children. I have custody of a child that his mother fought aggressively and diabolically for. The odds were against me, especially when my funds ran out and I had to go it alone without an attorney.
She is not the same person today she was years ago. Some of it is because she matured, some of it because we both want what's best for him and some of it because while she knows I will drop the hammer if needed, I also reward her with extra time and kindness when she is doing the right thing. My son has never seen us fight since early age three, now at 8 he only knows his mom and dad as people who like each other and who help each other here and there because we love him.
Honestly, I missed that. I thought this was "your decision." Changes the discussion quite a bit.
Lastly she is his mother and both she and his new baby sister need to be part of his life. To try to deny him that would be disgracefully selfish unless abolsolutely necessary. And being that I reported her to family services three times several years ago and put all of us in that system to hold her accountable, I know where and when to draw the line.
But here is the sentiment I keyed on earlier. I've seen it dozens and dozens of times and every time it mystifies me. Just because you are related to a "bad person" doesn't mean they need to be in your life or your kids life. Court ordered custody is one matter, but it sounds like even if it were left up to you, you'd still make a similar decision.
And finally, please try and see my motivation. I have nothing to gain in terms of money, prestige or anything by telling you the things I'm telling you. They are a genuine warning because I have seen what happens to others and I saw what happened to my family. And the one thing they all had in common is people saying "she's changed, children should have a mother." I hope in your case that it doesn't apply and that you are the exception to the general rule and nothing bad happens.
Maybe because a court of law has said he has to? He did mention court ordered visitation rights every other week (which he has expanded to once a week or something similar; probably to avoid issues flaring up in front of the boy I would guess).
Not a nice situation, but sometimes you cannot always do what you want to do when the courts get involved.
--
I did miss that and it does change things a bit.
Suwannee Tim
10-03-12, 20:37
Weird. You'd think they'd have a sense of humor about things like that. Plus. It was our family member. That gives us kind of a free pass right?
I think it was said about Teddy Roosevelt, something like "If you invite him to a wedding he wants to be the bride, if you invite him to a funeral he wants to be the corpse." So it seems with you.
QuickStrike
10-04-12, 01:38
I think it was said about Teddy Roosevelt, something like "If you invite him to a wedding he wants to be the bride, if you invite him to a funeral he wants to be the corpse." So it seems with you.
That's an awful lot of letters to spell "attention whore".
Or maybe you were implying that a grown man desires to become a corpse bride; similar to the 2005 animated movie by Tim Burton and Mike Johnson, which is now available at your local Target for $9.99, and $14.99 for Blu-ray? :nono:
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