A follow-up (sort of) to Trident on DD LW CHF barrels

[ASH556]

Prior to my deer hunt Saturday afternoon, I wanted to take the time to really put my rifles on paper at 100 yds. In the past, due to lack of a 100yd range in my area, I had always just sighted my rifles in at the local 25yd indoor range and adjusted so that the POI offset was appropriate. I have to say it feels really good to know for sure that my rifles are now zeroed with both optics and irons at 100yds.

I was shooting prone from a bipod with no rear support. Here is a pic of my setup (the stick is marking where I ranged to be 100yds to the target):

http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab104/ASH556/20120929_161239.jpg

I shot 5 guns total, but one of my main goals was to test the 16" DD LW CHF barrel for accuracy using Black Hills 75gr Blue Box Match ammo. Unfortunately, I left the 20 rnd magazine I had pre-loaded sitting on top of my safe, so I only had 13 rounds with me in my box. I used the first three for sighters and then made an adjustment to the scope. Then, I fired a 10 round group...or at least that was the plan. What actually happened was I came back from checking the target and fired the first round of the 10 round group before remembering to adjust the scope, so what I actually have below is a 9 round group.

The scope I'm using on this rifle is a Leupold MKIV 1.5-5 MR/T with the SPR reticle. I've never used a lower magnification scope for shooting at 100 yds before, but the results seemed to be ok.

The group appears to be 1.5-1.75". I cannot download the OnTarget software onto my work computer. If someone wants to grab the pic and use the software to measure the group, I'd appreciate it.

When benchmarking this against the results Trident achieved in his tests of the 14.5" DD LW CHF barrel, I feel pretty good about it. His groups with Hornady Vmax were about 1.5". He shoots a lot more precision than I do, so there's more skill there, plus his use of a 10X optic vs my 5X.

For what I want this gun to be (Lightweight, precision-ish, hunting and general purpose outside use) I think it fits the bill pretty well. There's a part of me that wants to put a match barrel on it and make it shoot MOA or better, but that will make the gun heavier, and I'm just not sure I want another true dedicated "precision" gun.

http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab104/ASH556/20120929_161934.jpg

[ICANHITHIMMAN]

Nice little test, I do have one question though. Thats not the ammo your hunting with is it?

[ASH556]

Nice little test, I do have one question though. Thats not the ammo your hunting with is it?

No, I don't really have a 100yd shot where I hunt anyway. I plan to use 64 grain Winchester Power Point Plus (older bonded load) and verify the offset at 50 yds (most common shot distance in the woods down here).

[ALCOAR]

Good, bad, or indifferent.....very few shooters ever really understand their rifle's true accuracy potential.

Going out a building a large data set comprised of various 10rd groups with different types of ammo @ 100yds is the easiest, and most effective way for starting to examine a rifle's particular accuracy.

Take pride in the fact that your doing the actual work, and do so in the appropriate manner in order to truly gain insight into this aspect of one's rifle in which everyone seems to think they have a good idea about.....yet very, very few actually ever really do.

Each shooter sets their own parameters in regards to how OCD requirements should be for their personal evaluation standards, and as long as you identify that up front, the process should still remain honest, and worthy of doing. So yeah I could point to dozens of things that you could do in order to slowly refine your evaluation technique or setup, but your not testing my rifles....so you shouldn't be required to use my own personal evaluating standards, procedures, or setup.

http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/ash-pic2.jpg

[ASH556]

Good, bad, or indifferent.....very few shooters ever really understand their rifle's true accuracy potential.

Going out a building a large data set comprised of various 10rd groups with different types of ammo @ 100yds is the easiest, and most effective way for starting to examine a rifle's particular accuracy.

Take pride in the fact that your doing the actual work, and do so in the appropriate manner in order to truly gain insight into this aspect of one's rifle in which everyone seems to think they have a good idea about.....yet very, very few actually ever really do.

Each shooter sets their own parameters in regards to how OCD requirements should be for their personal evaluation standards, and as long as you identify that up front, the process should still remain honest, and worthy of doing. So yeah I could point to dozens of things that you could do in order to slowly refine your evaluation technique or setup, but your not testing my rifles....so you shouldn't be required to use my own personal evaluating standards, procedures, or setup.


Hey man, thanks for the feedback. Also if you wouldn't mind sharing some of the changes to procedure you would make, I'd love to learn. I admire the scientific approach you take to shooting and would appreciate all the input I can get.

Thanks in advance!

[ALCOAR]

My pleasure, and glad I can help out a bit. I just try my best to always rip off Molon's style as best I can. He was a man amongst boys in my books.

3 things that are super easy for you to address, and I'm betting would have shrunk that group by let's say .25 MOA over some larger average.

1.) Rear support....absolute must. Doesn't take a hi speed/super snipery bought one, rather just one that works. A sock with a solid medium choice that doesn't retain moisture like plastic bbs or kernels of corn, etc. I'll turn around the truck if I remember I forgot my rear support!

2.) DIY or buy a shooting mat to incorporate my shooting mat mod that allows one to maintain a consistent platform for loading a bipod perfectly time in and time out. In short you want a "roll bar" at the front of a mat, then you put those pod legs up against that bar, slightly lean the rifle into your "load". Took me several years to see this light. It's makes a monumental difference!

3.) Don't disregard target selection for true precision/accuracy groups. See which color/size/shape your eye+reticle combo likes the best for repeatability, and ease. Everything is about relaxing once you get behind that rifle, this includes how hard or easy it is for your eye to focus on your actual bullseye.

Imho, this is an art form, the more you love doing it, usually the better your results will be.

[bullittmcqueen]

I will also add in addition to what Trident said above,

Load the bipod, which will be much easier with a mat such as the ones he uses (has a ridge at the front of the mat to load up the bipod)

Use diamond shaped rifle targets instead of circular targets. The crosshairs of your reticle bisect the diamond and make consistency of aiming easier.

And use a leveler on your scope. Canting the rifle to the side even the smallest amount makes a big difference 100 yards down range.

[ASH556]

Great input guys, thanks again. As far as loading the bipod, I was trying, but ended up with the feet buried in the soft soil and some nice trenches where it kept sliding forward.

Couple follow-up questions:

1) Trident, do you have a writeup or some detailed pics of your mat with the brace on the front?

2) I have a rail-mounted bubble level that I had on my 700 and completely forgot about until you mentioned it just now. Any reason why that wouldn't work?

Also, I guess I'll hit up Walmart for a cheap pair of socks (or grab an old pair out of the drawer) and some airsoft bb's.

What size is best? How tight should the fill be? Any tips for not bumping the LOP lever on the SOPMOD stock?

Thanks!

[Shooterman017]

I have found on my carbine when shooting from prone, if I put my weapon side hand really into the pistol grip, the "lower" part of my palm, it tends to group tighter than if I don't. The harder and tighter my position is the better my groups. Me, personally, I float my thumb over the safety on the right of the receiver as well. I've dry-fired with wrapping it around like normal, but I find it more comfortable and easier to attain a 90-degree, floated trigger finger doing it the other way.

I also find an easy way to beat the 5x(4x in my case) mag limitation (when punching groups at least) is to use a big-ass shoot n see sheet target. I think I tricked my brain into thinking 4x isn't a big deal since spotting my shots on the lower-mag was easier. :D

[bp7178]

For the 75gr Hornady bullet and the rifle I'd say thats probably about the limit of it. You may get slightly better results with the 77gr Sierra bullet.

The only thing I would do would be to tweak the zero a bit. Couldn't help to notice only one was in the 10 ring. ;)

Once I get my zero close using 3-5 rounds groups, I verify it with 10 round groups. You get a MUCH better idea of where your group center is for adjustments.

[ALCOAR]

Sorry about the delay Ash...just saw your request in regards to the mat.

Here is my first DIY mat that uses what I'll term as a "bipod loading assist bar".

I just took essentially a 1-2" diameter broom handle....then took a leading edge of some water resistant mat/carpetting and affixed it via staples all along the roll bar's length. That way the roll bar serves to both load the bipod easier/more consistent, and makes for rolling up the mat/unrolling the mat extremely quick, and effortless. Keep a cord around it during transit and that's it for an entire mat/bar setup.

I still use this setup for square ranges most of the time.

http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/IMG_4553-1.jpg

Now what I currently use, and have been now for a yr or two is another DIY'd mat...with the bipod loading assist bar incorporated into it as well, however the mat portion is dramatically different than the first model, but the roll bar portion or concept is the same.

With this DIY method, I sewed a small loop/pocket at the end of the mat, and then slid a 1/2"-3/4" steel roll bar in it. This setup here took about year just slowing refining what I wanted, and what I didn't need. I wanted a waterproof, lightweight, rip/tear resistant fabric to serve as the mat, didn't want all the cushy padding or pockets. Portability for my needs is paramount in a mat.

http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC00028-1.jpg
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC03595-1.jpg

eta

RE Sopmod latch...for some it can be a never ending nightmare for prone usage, however personally I've only ever accidentally hit the latch when using a sopmod prone with a .308. For 5.56 rifles, it never presented itself to be an issue.

While the Sopmod doesn't have a nice "toe" to bed down into a rear support, if you'll just use a two finger grip to keep it centered on the bag, and with moderate pressure, you'll see that you can still lock the recoil down thus preventing several inches of rearward travel from unman aged recoil.

[Atticus_1354]

With this DIY method, I sewed a small loop/pocket at the end of the mat, and then slid a 1/2"-3/4" steel roll bar in it. This setup here took about year just slowing refining what I wanted, and what I didn't need. I wanted a waterproof, lightweight, rip/tear resistant fabric to serve as the mat, didn't want all the cushy padding or pockets. Portability for my needs is paramount in a mat.

http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC00028-1.jpg


What material did you use and do you have any overall pictures of the mat? I want something simple that will protect me from the rocks and spiky plants out here in west Texas. Your design looks good and I could make a few tweeks to suit my personal needs.

[El Cid]

For those of us who prefer to buy a mat instead of making one, how does this one rate? Thanks!

http://www.crosstac.com/product/precision-long-range-shooting-mat