View Full Version : Trouble shoot my Ed Brown
I have experienced problems with this Ed Brown since I've had it. It used to be after a couple boxes of bullets, it would FTF. The bullet would be pressed straight against the ramp and a "tap" would send it forward.
Last night it was shooting good. But the ejection is everywhere.
It will eject forward, backward and even a little weak ass 2 ft up and land on my forearm. But generally weak ejection.
I always felt the Spring was way to strong in this gun, but I was told, ED BROWN knows what they are doing. Anyway, I want to buy a new spring. What lb spring would you guys try? Any other thoughts.
Oh yea, its a 4.25 barrel. Not full sized. And I'll never own another.
PB
I usually run a 17lb recoil spring.
Did you ever contact Ed Brown about the issue to see what they had to say?
Never owned one, but I have heard that they have pretty good CS.....
Might just be that you have a minor issue that is easily fixed, or might need a little more extensive work.
Without more info such as ammo type and the fact that it's been doing it "since you've had it", I'd say replacing the recoil spring would not be the next prudent step.
It must be reliable..period...send it to EB
I believe a 4.25 Cmdr length barrel is a 17 lb spring. I'd stock up on them since the replacement interval is 1500 rds on a 5" with a 16 lb spring and about 500 pn an officers (3.5"). The shorter the slide the quicker they wear out.
Although the Colt factory Officers seems to hold up for quite awhile 1000 rds it's a dual spring set up. I finally switched mine to a flat wire spring since Wolff and Wilson's replacement springs are only a single spring.
Not being 'Ed Brown' it sounds like an extractor that needs alittle fine tuning having difficulty sliding over the rim coupled with a weak recoil spring but hard to tell without the pistol in front of me.
Check the inside of the mag feed lips for burrs.
Check for a burr on the breech face at the firing pin hole.
Check the tension on the extractor and adjust as needed.
Check the extractor for clocking.
PM sent.
Welcome to the 1911 world... :p
I would send it back to EB as well. Your experience is not the normal EB experience. JMO.. Ron
Welcome to the 1911 world... :p
and what a grand world it is! Cheers.. Ron
Welcome to the 1911 world... :p
My guess:
Extractor clocking, insufficient extractor tension, excessive extractor tension, chipped extractor, loose firing pin stop, loose ejector, chipped ejector, weak recoil spring or any combination of one or more of those problems or possibly something I didn't think of.
A 45ACP Commander uses an 18lb recoil spring.
Mark your mags and make sure it's not one specific mag that's doing it.
I contacted Ed Brown, they said you pay to send it in. I said, its my last Brown. Cheap ****in Dicks. 2+K and they want me to pay to fix the gun. Not industry standard.
Ordered another spring, my first attempt, its the simplest. I'll keep you posted.
Check the mainspring. My buddy and I just had this conversation in which is $5,000 bullseye gun wasn't feeding worth a shit and couldn't get the maker to help him out. He noticed how hard it was to pull back the hammer so he cut a couple coils off of it and it runs like a champ now.
theJanitor
10-05-12, 11:52
before you send it in, can you take some pics of the frame, from the top? I've heard that Ed Brown is doing what LB is doing to make commanders: cutting gov't model frames' dustcovers. the recoil seat location could be wrong.
ask me how I know :rolleyes:
theJanitor
10-05-12, 12:07
just snapped this pic. on the left is a colt commander, on the right, a LB commander. notice the length of the frame rail, and the location that the guide rod sits? well, the LB is just a cut down gov't. and the recoil assembly has less room to operate. I have heard comments by both Jason Burton, and John Harrison, that they've had to recut these in Les Baers. Just last week, a friend told me his Ed Brown was done the same way.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8313/8057054107_86f36376ff_b.jpg
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii309/Hohopelli/aw_jeez_not_this_shit_again.jpg
I contacted Ed Brown, they said you pay to send it in. I said, its my last Brown. Cheap ****in Dicks. 2+K and they want me to pay to fix the gun. Not industry standard.
Ordered another spring, my first attempt, its the simplest. I'll keep you posted.
Your first post implies that you have had this gun for a while now, and are just now getting around to wanting it fixed.
Smaller companies don't always cover shipping back for repairs, but most of them will reimburse that cost if it is a legitimate problem with the way the gun was built.
Guess you won't have the chance to find out...
I contacted Ed Brown, they said you pay to send it in. I said, its my last Brown. Cheap ****in Dicks. 2+K and they want me to pay to fix the gun. Not industry standard.
Ordered another spring, my first attempt, its the simplest. I'll keep you posted.
Good luck.
I briefly had a Brown...
just snapped this pic. on the left is a colt commander, on the right, a LB commander. notice the length of the frame rail, and the location that the guide rod sits? well, the LB is just a cut down gov't. and the recoil assembly has less room to operate. I have heard comments by both Jason Burton, and John Harrison, that they've had to recut these in Les Baers. Just last week, a friend told me his Ed Brown was done the same way.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8313/8057054107_86f36376ff_b.jpg
Wow... colt showed us the way looong ago, and it is so easy to do it "right", why use a cut government frame? And in an expensive pistol nonetheless?
Could have a couple of issues going on. Given the FTF, the idea of replacing the recoil spring seems valid. If that doesn't work, mag springs are another thing to check. On the issue that OP reports "ejection is everywhere," I'd agree with checking the extractor tensioning.
I contacted Ed Brown, they said you pay to send it in. I said, its my last Brown. Cheap ****in Dicks. 2+K and they want me to pay to fix the gun. Not industry standard.
Ordered another spring, my first attempt, its the simplest. I'll keep you posted.
That is why I passed on an Ed Brown.
Former FAM
10-05-12, 21:03
Well,
I'm by no means an expert but I am an enthusiast... I do run a 1911 for work... From what you mentioned in your post, I would replace the recoil spring, and check for a bad magazine. As for erratic ejection look at the extractor... If the extractor isn't properly set up, or tesioned properly it can cause the ejection pattern you describe. Don't get too attached to your magazines, and firgure out the recoil spring replacement interval. I run a Springfield Pro for work and this particular gun will start to run a little sluggish with 3000 rounds on a recoil spring, so I generally just change it out at 2500.
I only run Chip McCormick Power mags, or Wilson Combat ETM's and I rotate them out once a year. It has kept me from having any issues with this pistol and I'm right at about 10,000 13,000 rounds. If your going to run a 1911 you need to educate yourself on how to keep them running... It can be a daunting task at times, and there is some cost involved...
Here are some resources for you that have been invaluable to me:
https://www.10-8performance.com/pages/1911-User%27s-Guide.html
http://www.10-8performance.com/pages/Reliability%2C-Round-Counts%2C-and-Longevity-in-1911s.html
http://www.10-8performance.com/pages/1911-Technical-Reference-Sources.html
http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=51276#Post51276
Hope this helps
Be Safe
I contacted Ed Brown, they said you pay to send it in. 2+K and they want me to pay to fix the gun. Not industry standard.
Actually that's quite common. I'm pretty sure there's no written warranty. I bet it's an easy fix by a qualified smiff. Shoot me a PM for a referral if you like.
WC, LB, EB, and lots of the other highly regarded gunsmiths don't offer any type of written 'warranty'.
WC used to have a statement on their website that explained why they didn't offer one, and if it's still there, I'd recommend the OP go read it, as it does a good job of explaining why.
Yes, Ruger, SA, and a few others have a 'lifetime warranty', and they generally will send a shipping label if you have a problem. But what some people seem to not understand is that if you send in the firearm, and they determine that it isn't a warranty issue, but an end user created problem, they will generally charge you for the shipping as part of the repair.
Kimber, for example, only has a one year written warranty, and they are pretty aggressive about not doing warranty work once that year is up. And in addition to that (from personal experience) they don't cover shipping to them, even for warranty work.
WC, LB, EB, and lots of the other highly regarded gunsmiths don't offer any type of written 'warranty'.
WC used to have a statement on their website that explained why they didn't offer one, and if it's still there, I'd recommend the OP go read it, as it does a good job of explaining why.
Yes, Ruger, SA, and a few others have a 'lifetime warranty', and they generally will send a shipping label if you have a problem. But what some people seem to not understand is that if you send in the firearm, and they determine that it isn't a warranty issue, but an end user created problem, they will generally charge you for the shipping as part of the repair.
Kimber, for example, only has a one year written warranty, and they are pretty aggressive about not doing warranty work once that year is up. And in addition to that (from personal experience) they don't cover shipping to them, even for warranty work.
That, to me, is where the value is in Springfield Custom.
That, to me, is where the value is in Springfield Custom.
No kidding eh. Damn good people there too.
On the issue of the Ed Brown malfunctioning. From my limited knowledge of the platform since I am far from a master on it, I second what as been said, recoil spring and mags and see if that helps. My TRP has shown a very real preference for quality mags and runs much better and smoother then Chip mags then with the ACT mags I ran in it initially.
AUplainsman
10-06-12, 15:10
Well,
I'm by no means an expert but I am an enthusiast... I do run a 1911 for work... From what you mentioned in your post, I would replace the recoil spring, and check for a bad magazine. As for erratic ejection look at the extractor... If the extractor isn't properly set up, or tesioned properly it can cause the ejection pattern you describe. Don't get too attached to your magazines, and firgure out the recoil spring replacement interval. I run a Springfield Pro for work and this particular gun will start to run a little sluggish with 3000 rounds on a recoil spring, so I generally just change it out at 2500.
I only run Chip McCormick Power mags, or Wilson Combat ETM's and I rotate them out once a year. It has kept me from having any issues with this pistol and I'm right at about 10,000 13,000 rounds. If your going to run a 1911 you need to educate yourself on how to keep them running... It can be a daunting task at times, and there is some cost involved...
Here are some resources for you that have been invaluable to me:
https://www.10-8performance.com/pages/1911-User%27s-Guide.html
http://www.10-8performance.com/pages/Reliability%2C-Round-Counts%2C-and-Longevity-in-1911s.html
http://www.10-8performance.com/pages/1911-Technical-Reference-Sources.html
http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=51276#Post51276
Hope this helps
Be Safe
This. Hilton Yam with 10-8 Performance has lots of great articles on the 1911. It sounds like extractor tension may be your overall issue and not so much the recoil spring. Check the tension and geometry and go from there.
Littlelebowski
10-06-12, 15:50
Why not send it to Ed Brown?
Why not send it to Ed Brown?
He didn't want to pay for it.
I wouldn't either, but I guess it comes with the territory.
IMO, 1911 owners should be able to take this kinda stuff in stride.
It's no little-known fact that 1911s are a tight system and they require a little maintenance from time to time, which is going to require some hand-fitting and knowledge.
If you don't have the knowledge, tools, etc to fix it yourself, it's gonna be a time consuming, costly affair to get to a good 'smith to get it back up 'n runnin'.
That's ultimately why I decided not to mess with 'em at all after dabbling with 'em for a few years. I have absolutely no desire to fit and tune an extractor, stake a plunger tube, mess with grip bushings, gauge/tune feedlips, fit a thumb safety or tune a sear spring.
They're super easy to detail strip and shoot, but I just don't have what it takes to keep one goin'. That, and the cost of 45ACP.
Why not send it to Ed Brown?
I'm going to try the spring then if that doesn't resolve, I'll pay Ed Brown to fix the gun they made.
just snapped this pic. on the left is a colt commander, on the right, a LB commander. notice the length of the frame rail, and the location that the guide rod sits? well, the LB is just a cut down gov't. and the recoil assembly has less room to operate. I have heard comments by both Jason Burton, and John Harrison, that they've had to recut these in Les Baers. Just last week, a friend told me his Ed Brown was done the same way.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8313/8057054107_86f36376ff_b.jpg
When I get the new spring, I'll take some pics.
I'm going to try the spring then if that doesn't resolve, I'll pay Ed Brown to fix the gun they made.
Nice jump to conclusion...
You have no idea if it's gonna cost you anything outside of shipping yet, but by all means, bash a company that has a good reputation...
DeltaSierra
10-07-12, 22:50
Nice jump to conclusion...
You have no idea if it's gonna cost you anything outside of shipping yet, but by all means, bash a company that has a good reputation...
Isn't that a joke...
Brown has made a name for himself for being an insufferable jerk.....
I don't have much use for a man (or his handguns) that is so proud of himself that he cannot admit it if/when he makes a mistake......
Nice jump to conclusion...
You have no idea if it's gonna cost you anything outside of shipping yet, but by all means, bash a company that has a good reputation...
He already said, "ship it back on your dime", thats enough. This is not the industry standard, much less the custom 1911 standard.
On top of that, the guns dont fit in regular 1911 holsters. They are so "custom" they dont fit in Blackhawk, Bladetech...holsters. WTF
How many Ed Browns do you have? How many custom 1911's do you have? Do you have any idea what your talking about? Those are rhetorical questions! Off to Google you go :D
Littlelebowski
10-08-12, 07:32
I contacted Ed Brown, they said you pay to send it in. I said, its my last Brown. Cheap ****in Dicks. 2+K and they want me to pay to fix the gun. Not industry standard.
Ordered another spring, my first attempt, its the simplest. I'll keep you posted.
A friend of mine just went through hell with Ed Brown. Brand new pisol that shot 6" high at 25 yards. Bear in mind, this guy is not your typical shooter and takes shooting seriously. Ed Brown's customer service got very rude with him (including Travis Brown) and ended up offering him 80% of what he paid to take it back. This is after he paid for shipping to Ed Brown twice. Friend took the 80% and just ordered a Wilson Combat.
**** Ed Brown.
A friend of mine just went through hell with Ed Brown. Brand new pisol that shot 6" high at 25 yards. Bear in mind, this guy is not your typical shooter and takes shooting seriously. Ed Brown's customer service got very rude with him (including Travis Brown) and ended up offering him 80% of what he paid to take it back. This is after he paid for shipping to Ed Brown twice. Friend took the 80% and just ordered a Wilson Combat.
**** Ed Brown.
Litteleboswski, ****in A, I would take 80% on mine in a heartbeat , and buy a Wilson. Live and learn. HEARTBEAT.
It shows they have goof balls test firing their guns. Or not testing firing their guns. Or test firing from 7 yards....
A friend of mine just went through hell with Ed Brown. Brand new pisol that shot 6" high at 25 yards. Bear in mind, this guy is not your typical shooter and takes shooting seriously. Ed Brown's customer service got very rude with him (including Travis Brown) and ended up offering him 80% of what he paid to take it back. This is after he paid for shipping to Ed Brown twice. Friend took the 80% and just ordered a Wilson Combat.
**** Ed Brown.
That sucks...
It also shows that when selecting a pistol, especially when you're dropping serious coin it pays to do your due diligence.
Personally I couldn't care less about 25yd. accuracy. I'm not interested in shooting a pistol that far. I'm totally all about reliability and accuracy at realistic shooting engagement distances but that's me. If you ever shot someone at 25yd. in a CCW type engagement you'd be going to jail most likely.
That said, I know some bullseye shooters that couldn't care less about shooting hollowpoints at IPSC targets at close range so different strokes.
I think the take home point is if you shell out more than $2k on a pistol you better be treated well if there's an issue with it.
DeltaSierra
10-08-12, 12:01
Personally I couldn't care less about 25yd. accuracy. I'm not interested in shooting a pistol that far. I'm totally all about reliability and accuracy at realistic shooting engagement distances but that's me.
I guess your definition of realistic shooting distances is different than mine...
I recently took a 75+ yard shot with my handgun - I guess that is an "unrealistic" shooting distance?
As far as distance goes, I know the study's show the average distance on handgun engagements is 7 yards or less @#! percent of the time. And I'm sure that is true. Mark and I were doing drills shooting paper at 7 yards and had steel at 50 yards. Making a fair amount of hits at 50. I'm sure we could all think of extreme situations where would take that shot at any distance.
Point here is, a custom 1911 should be tested and be dead on 25 yards. Again, Industry standard.
I had researched guns pretty well when I bought my Browns, maybe they are falling off? Great companies go south all the time. Happens everyday.
PB
I guess your definition of realistic shooting distances is different than mine...
I recently took a 75+ yard shot with my handgun - I guess that is an "unrealistic" shooting distance?
Couple of things. In a situation that calls for you to defend yourself if you're shooting 75 feet then a grand jury is going to look at that and most likely decide you could have retreated or used other options.
If you think about it that's quite a ways and in the civilian world falls more or less outside the sphere of immediate danger. In the event you do need to make a long shot like that a few inches either way of mechanical accuracy aren't going to make any difference when you've got a gallon of adrenaline pumping through your system.
If you decide to engage someone at long range with an autopistol you've made what would likely be called a tactical blunder, especially if they're armed with a revolver or carbine.
Littlelebowski
10-08-12, 15:22
Defense shooting what-iffing aside, the standard distance for testing accuracy on pistols is 25 yards and believe it or not, some people shoot their pistols at targets and critters past that distance.
Isn't that a joke...
Brown has made a name for himself for being an insufferable jerk.....
I don't have much use for a man (or his handguns) that is so proud of himself that he cannot admit it if/when he makes a mistake......
I have never heard of the folks at EB being rude, or eve nMr. Brown himself.
Not true for Mr. Bear, though.
I have been perusing the internet gun boards for over a decade, and this is the first I have heard of this. Never saw anyone mention poor customer service from Brown or any major problems, at 1911Forum.
I will admit that I have never owned an Ed Brown gun, or used their CS, so my knowledge is all indirect.
However, the internet is rife with destroyed reputations and failed gun companies due to the owners being rude, and Toad is the first to pop into my head.
And EB seems to be doing quite well still, so I must concede that he and his company are doing something right.
It's been a while since I wrenched on a 1911 but I just bought an Ed Brown safety to install on my Springfield and the bloody thing doesn't fit. The pin that goes through that holds the grip safety on tapers out near the bottom.
Evidently their QC isn't what it used to be because I've never had this problem in the past.
Magic_Salad0892
10-09-12, 14:09
My girlfriend's dad was just looking at an Ed Brown (he wants to buy his first American pistol. He's German as ****.) and he made a remark about how the Extractor felt like it had scratches in it, and felt ''mushy". I told him to look at Wilson or Springfield. He ain't havin' it. "If I want American pistol. I'm buying Colt. I'll just find somebody to work on it if I need it."
Sorry about the sidetrack.
I'd start at the extractor. And look at the frame. Then the ejector.
And just to throw this out there. A friend of mine who has a Baer pistol got stuck with an out of spec firing in, and spring and the spring was too strong causing the firing pin (that was too long) to not retract back into the hole all the way and it would drag along the rear of the casing and cause the case to slow down enough to get caught in the ejection port. You could see the scratches in the back of the brass.
They replaced the whole gun. So +1 for Baer CS.
Well fellas, I received my Spring in the mail today. Brown truck showed up with a box of 500 of the 77gr SMK's, 1K of 55gr Hornady dumping ammo and my Wolf Spring.
I cleaned the Eddie Brown and put the spring in it. It is definitely lighter which I hoped and expected. It is an 18lb Wolf. But the other thing I noticed was how the Brown Spring loaded. It "loaded" or got progressively heavier through the slide travel. Where at the end of full compression was 2 or 3X as heavy as where it started. I'm no spring expert, but it was dramatic.
Conversely, the Wolf spring has steady consistent pressure. I really thought it was the nature of the Commanders. This may not fix my problem, or this may be one of the factors. I will try to get to the range tomorrow night to check it out. I am eager to test it out.
I double checked all my 1911's, and none "loaded" or built pressure/resistance like that commander spring.
One last note on springs, my Colt Rail gun, which has functioned very well, has the softest spring of the bunch. I feel like it could use the extra 20lb spring I have. Cant help but to think I'm beating that gun up.
Range report to follow:
PB
Take the slide off. Take a loaded round and slip it under the Extractor. Make sure the base of the round is sitting in the "Circle" on the breach face. The round should droop nose down about 30 degrees and still be held with by the extractor when you give the slide a light shake.
Exractors are tricky to adjust and I think they gave yours alittle to much tension. Becareful adjusting extractor, alittle goes along way.
Ejection pattern better, stronger but a few in the face. FTF several times with WWB and hand loads. Very erratic. all over the place.
Back to Eddie Brown.
theJanitor
10-10-12, 14:30
pappabear, PM incoming.
just snapped this pic. on the left is a colt commander, on the right, a LB commander. notice the length of the frame rail, and the location that the guide rod sits? well, the LB is just a cut down gov't. and the recoil assembly has less room to operate. I have heard comments by both Jason Burton, and John Harrison, that they've had to recut these in Les Baers. Just last week, a friend told me his Ed Brown was done the same way.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8313/8057054107_86f36376ff_b.jpg
I just out got my Colt Govt and Brown Commander. They are the same frame, just the front lopped off a little. And the feed ramp is steeper on the Brown, subjecting itself to more FTF, possible. I really dont understand what the issue is here, but I do know -IT DONT WORK
Well fellas, I received my Spring in the mail today. Brown truck showed up with a box of 500 of the 77gr SMK's, 1K of 55gr Hornady dumping ammo and my Wolf Spring.
I cleaned the Eddie Brown and put the spring in it. It is definitely lighter which I hoped and expected. It is an 18lb Wolf. But the other thing I noticed was how the Brown Spring loaded. It "loaded" or got progressively heavier through the slide travel. Where at the end of full compression was 2 or 3X as heavy as where it started. I'm no spring expert, but it was dramatic.
Conversely, the Wolf spring has steady consistent pressure. I really thought it was the nature of the Commanders. This may not fix my problem, or this may be one of the factors. I will try to get to the range tomorrow night to check it out. I am eager to test it out.
I double checked all my 1911's, and none "loaded" or built pressure/resistance like that commander spring.
One last note on springs, my Colt Rail gun, which has functioned very well, has the softest spring of the bunch. I feel like it could use the extra 20lb spring I have. Cant help but to think I'm beating that gun up.
Range report to follow:
PB
Did you buy this Brown new? Your first post isn't clear, as you state 'since I have had it'.
Based on this current post, it sounds like the gun had a very heavy progressive rate spring in it.
According to the owners manual linked on the Ed Brown website, the Commander sized guns are equipped with a 20# recoil spring, EB PN 920-C, and does not appear to be a progressive rate spring.
OK MM, you cleaning up my post was legit, but can you at least call the nerd police. ;)
My girlfriend's dad was just looking at an Ed Brown and made a remark about how the Extractor felt like it had scratches in it, and felt ''mushy". I told him to look at Wilson or Springfield. He ain't havin' it. "If I want American pistol. I'm buying Colt. I'll just find somebody to work on it if I need it."
What he said...;)
Littlelebowski
10-19-12, 18:00
Any updates, pappabear?
Any updates, pappabear?
No, I have not had time. Been traveling and working my ass off. I will try to get it out next week to Brown. After I tried that spring, which was cleArly not my answer. I threw it in the safe and prayed for a better day.
I'll post my efforts with Brown.
I took some pics for another member. In studying the gun side by side with my full size 5 govt. The feed ramp is Significantly more steep. Is that the normal situation for Commanders. It's definitely one of the issues causing feeding problems, normal or not.
LL, I checked your blog out , pretty good stuff. Watched the vid on the biker CCW situation.
I would see no reason why Brown would have any problems solving this issue for you.....I mean you did spend a lot of money on a 1911 that should be reliable, at least, and impressive at a minimum.
Good luck, and keep us posted.
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