View Full Version : Soon to be first time Glock owner Gen 3 or 4
morbidbattlecry
10-05-12, 02:30
I'm about to pick up one of those fancy new FDE glock 17s. I've been sorta following whats been going on with the ejection issues with both generations of guns. And things seam to be getting better. At least a little bit at a time. With the new extractors that are being put in from factory and from Apex As a first time glock owner Which would be best for me? I'm leaning towards a Gen 4 for the better grip texturing. I will be putting a grip force adapter on it as well as Vickers slide stop and new sights. Main use will be for home defence and maybe comp here and there. But mostly a Defence gun.
Guinnessman
10-05-12, 05:45
If you follow the Glock Threads on this site, you will note that the extraction issue has been happening with both the Gen 3 and 4 models. Now here is my personal take.
I prefer the Gen 4 to the Gen 3 because of the grip texture and smaller grip. Aside from these features, the Gen 3 guns are great and spare parts can be found everywhere.
Try to find a range where you can rent both. That may help your decision. We have SME's on the board that have shown success with the current Gen 3's and 4's.
MattHallman
10-05-12, 06:41
I just sent in my new gen3 g19 FDE on Monday for 6 o'clock ejection, throwing brass at my head, and stove piping with several different factory ammo.
No this isnt my first glock and I wasnt limp wristing either. I own 3 other glocks: gen2 g20, gen3 g29, and gen3 g23.
Ive heard that these later gen3s are having problems now. I wish I bought the gen4 FDE 19 for $50 more but live and learn I suppose.
I have 2 Gen 3 9mm (G-19, G17) and have had no problems other than a few casings to the head. As someone else said, see if you can rent both, I did and that was the primary reason for my choice. I also got rid of the sights and got a trigger job with a 3.5lb disconnector. Never been happier. Good luck.
My 17 hit my LEFT EAR last weekend. :rolleyes:
I have the gen4 17,19,26 & 22. No problems. They were all purchased after Glock made the upgrades/fixes. I know some have still had issues, but I've been fortunate I suppose. I do prefer the gen4 grip, but I love my gen3s.
I'm about to pick up one of those fancy new FDE glock 17s. I've been sorta following whats been going on with the ejection issues with both generations of guns. And things seam to be getting better. At least a little bit at a time. With the new extractors that are being put in from factory and from Apex As a first time glock owner Which would be best for me? I'm leaning towards a Gen 4 for the better grip texturing. I will be putting a grip force adapter on it as well as Vickers slide stop and new sights. Main use will be for home defence and maybe comp here and there. But mostly a Defence gun.
While I'm no Glock expert, From reading the threads, I've gathered that alot Gen 3 or Gen4 guns run well for about 800-1000 (more or less) rnds before problems start.. My Gen 3 went somewhere between 7-800 rnds before it started acting up...I'm now on my 3rd extractor after trying polishing the dip extractor that came with the pistol, trying the LW extractor, and now the new, non-dip Glock factory extractor, All have been failures, although the non-dip extractor does work the best..I've also noticed an improvement in extraction by installing Wolfe 10% stronger mag springs I shot 250 rnds through my G19 yesterday, and only got beaned twice...usually I'd get hit at least 6-7 times. I believe Randy is right when he says the Glock extractor is heavily dependent on the mag spring to function.. If I understand correctly,his extractor dosen't. If I were you, Go get the Glock you want, Plan on buying one of Randy's extractors, sooner or later you'll need it. From what few reports I've read from the 70 that bought the first batch, they seem to have fixed the extraction problems people were having..
My 17 hit my LEFT EAR last weekend. :rolleyes:
Whoa, that takes some serious skillz. Ive only been able to hit my forehead so far.
I like the texture on the Gen 4's and the different backstrap sizings can be nice for some that had issues with the Gen 3 grip sizing. I personally didn't, so that doesn't factor in. I still prefer the Gen 3's. As far as aftermarket parts, the Vickers' products are available for both generations, so that's not a big deal to me either. I'd go for whichever one fits your hand better.
My newer G17 does have the extraction problems, and I'm waiting to pick up and Apex kit to fix that. My older G19 is going on 7 years old and has never had a problem with the thousands of rounds through it.
brickboy240
10-05-12, 10:26
I'd seriously consider looking at something else or finding an earlier Glock.
The PPQ and HK USP 9 compact are looking real good to me now.
If the Apex part does not cure my problems...I am going that route and never buying another Glock unless it is a 2nd gen gun.
It is sad that Glock has gone the way of SIG in the fact that if you want a good one...you need to seek out an earlier model.
-brickboy240
Another Glock 9mm extraction/ejection thread? Really?
OP- Put your critical thinking cap on, and check out the existing threads on topics that have pages far into the double digits.
Buy one and shoot it.
Guns-up.50
10-05-12, 11:03
I'd seriously consider looking at something else or finding an earlier Glock.
The PPQ and HK USP 9 compact are looking real good to me now.
If the Apex part does not cure my problems...I am going that route and never buying another Glock unless it is a 2nd gen gun.
It is sad that Glock has gone the way of SIG in the fact that if you want a good one...you need to seek out an earlier model.
-brickboy240
I think this is a little over the top , there are many glock shooters that have had few to no problems with newer gen threes , yes there have been problems and there are also remedies. You dont cut off your foot because your toe hurts.
morbidbattlecry
10-05-12, 11:23
Another Glock 9mm extraction/ejection thread? Really?
OP- Put your critical thinking cap on, and check out the existing threads on topics that have pages far into the double digits.
Buy one and shoot it.
I didn't want this to end up being an ejection thread. I know both gens are having issues. I just wanted to if there was any good reason not to get a gen 4. I.E. The new recoil spring is crap or something of that nature. Something that a non experienced glock owner would have trouble taking care of. I come from a 1911 background if that helps any.
brickboy240
10-05-12, 12:15
I'd feel differently if...
...there was a CERTAIN fix for this problem
...the maker had a history of fixing the problem or even acknowledging it exists
...you knew when the problem would crop up (i.e. - certain ammo or a certain round count)
But since we don't know....I feel that buying a new 9mm Glock is a roll of the dice. Make it if you want but as one that is messing around with a G19, I would be wary of buying another new 9mm Glock.
Do what you want...but know that this problem exists.
-brickboy20
I'd feel differently if...
...there was a CERTAIN fix for this problem
...the maker had a history of fixing the problem or even acknowledging it exists
...you knew when the problem would crop up (i.e. - certain ammo or a certain round count)
But since we don't know....I feel that buying a new 9mm Glock is a roll of the dice. Make it if you want but as one that is messing around with a G19, I would be wary of buying another new 9mm Glock.
Do what you want...but know that this problem exists.
-brickboy20
Excellent advice.
Get a M&P9, HK P30, or even a Sig 2022
I'm about to pick up one of those fancy new FDE glock 17s. I've been sorta following whats been going on with the ejection issues with both generations of guns. And things seam to be getting better. At least a little bit at a time. With the new extractors that are being put in from factory and from Apex As a first time glock owner Which would be best for me? I'm leaning towards a Gen 4 for the better grip texturing. I will be putting a grip force adapter on it as well as Vickers slide stop and new sights. Main use will be for home defence and maybe comp here and there. But mostly a Defence gun.
Why would you put a GFA on a gun you've never shot? I understand what they do, but wouldn't you want to shoot the gun first? If it's an ergonomics issue, would you be better off with a Smith M&P, which is closer to your 1911 ergonomically?
Also, you really should search and read some of the Glock threads on this site. They really will answer the questions you're asking with exception of, which one should you get, which you have to answer for yourself. Read the threads, take in as much information as you can and make your decision from there.
FWIW, I have a 2011 Gen Glock 17 that has been stellar. That really doesn't help you much as I'm not selling the gun and there are people that have had issues. As Skintop said; buy one and shoot it. It's really the only way to know.
I'd feel differently if...
...there was a CERTAIN fix for this problem
...the maker had a history of fixing the problem or even acknowledging it exists
...you knew when the problem would crop up (i.e. - certain ammo or a certain round count)
But since we don't know....I feel that buying a new 9mm Glock is a roll of the dice. Make it if you want but as one that is messing around with a G19, I would be wary of buying another new 9mm Glock.
Do what you want...but know that this problem exists.
-brickboy20
I understand your frustration with the gun and sorry you are having problems. The 19 seems to be the most problematic of them all. Not sure if that's because it is or because there's just more of them out there. Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but the attitude in your posts indicates you should just move on to a different gun/company. However, I wonder if it's any better to have a gun that has very little after market support. If it functions perfectly, great but if I can't find the holster I want for it or can't find sights I want for it, how much use is it to me. Or if I have a gun where I have to wait for long periods of time to get parts for it, is that better? Can you shoot DA/SA or LEM? If not, are you willing to put the time in to learn it? They're rhetorical questions, but ones that worth considering.
Unfortunately there is no perfect choice and as I've read in the past, you have decide what detriments you can live with. Just my observations.
brickboy240
10-05-12, 12:52
Very true!
I guess they all have a wart or two.
Just know about the "warts" on whatever you decide on and go forward from there.
None of them are 100% perfect and I really try to refrain from telling anyone "buy only XYZ and absolutely nothing else."
Research before buying any firearm is critical today.
-brickboy240
morbidbattlecry
10-05-12, 13:07
Very true!
I guess they all have a wart or two.
Just know about the "warts" on whatever you decide on and go forward from there.
None of them are 100% perfect and I really try to refrain from telling anyone "buy only XYZ and absolutely nothing else."
Research before buying any firearm is critical today.
-brickboy240
I have been doing my homework best i can. I'm a TacTv subscriber and i can alot of information from that show.
I think i'm going to go with a Gen 3 for now and get some Skate tape if i don't find it grippy enough. Also i have big hands and it seams that the Gen 3 grip is a bit bigger. Thanks for the help guys.
Get one and shoot it.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2
KarbonChemist
10-05-12, 15:04
For HD...most reliable.
FeltaDorce
10-05-12, 15:26
+1 to brickboy and clay
If you REALLY want a GLOCK, buy it and deal with the burn marks on your face.
If this doesn't sound appealing, choose something else. I have not been impressed with how they have addressed this issue.
It is not some small issue, as most of the fan boys would have you believe. What if you used your gun in a defensive capacity, and didn't have time to put your shooting glasses on? You might screw one of your eyes up. You certainly aren't going to get follow up shots off.
my $0.02
I have a 2010 Gen 4 17 that hasn't given me any problems with or without the updates. I also have a Gen 4 19 that is two months and has some erratic ejection. That being said, I also had a 19 bought new in 08 that had the same issue, so I don't believe erratic ejection is anything new.
Do your homework, there are other striker fired pistols (M&P, PPQ) out there, and plenty of first hand experience with them on this site.
morbidbattlecry
10-05-12, 19:30
While I'm no Glock expert, From reading the threads, I've gathered that alot Gen 3 or Gen4 guns run well for about 800-1000 (more or less) rnds before problems start.. My Gen 3 went somewhere between 7-800 rnds before it started acting up...I'm now on my 3rd extractor after trying polishing the dip extractor that came with the pistol, trying the LW extractor, and now the new, non-dip Glock factory extractor, All have been failures, although the non-dip extractor does work the best..I've also noticed an improvement in extraction by installing Wolfe 10% stronger mag springs I shot 250 rnds through my G19 yesterday, and only got beaned twice...usually I'd get hit at least 6-7 times. I believe Randy is right when he says the Glock extractor is heavily dependent on the mag spring to function.. If I understand correctly,his extractor dosen't. If I were you, Go get the Glock you want, Plan on buying one of Randy's extractors, sooner or later you'll need it. From what few reports I've read from the 70 that bought the first batch, they seem to have fixed the extraction problems people were having..
I do plan on picking up one of His extractors when more comes back in stock. I knew wanting to buy a glock that i may get one with problems and that it may require time to fix to get it to run well. I was under the impression the problem wasn't bad enough to ditch the whole platform.
I do plan on picking up one of His extractors when more comes back in stock. I knew wanting to buy a glock that i may get one with problems and that it may require time to fix to get it to run well. I was under the impression the problem wasn't bad enough to ditch the whole platform.
No, it's not..The ejection problems seem to vary..some like myself have pistols whose ejection problem is annoying,in my case a few to the head every so often, others have had it much worse..It's still somewhat of a dice-throw, But I feel Apex has a solid fix. As I said in my first post, I do feel there is a definite relation between the stock extractor and the mag springs..I changed mine this week for Wolfe 10% stronger mag springs, I did this on Grant's advice, as he told me when you pull the baseplate off the mag, you should have about a coil and half of mag spring sticking above the mag body..I replaced 6 mag springs, of them, 2 still met this criteria. 3 had about a coil sticking above the mag body, and one had about 1/2 a coil sticking above the mag body..I've probably got somewhere between 2500-3000 rnds through this pistol..While ejection wasn't any more postitve (about 3' to the right) after I changed mag springs, I was however getting hit a little less, out of 250rnds shot I got hit twice..usually it'd be about 5-7 times at least.Also, since installing the new non-dip extractor,(before I changed mag springs) I also noticed a decrease in, left ejection, forward ejection, 5:30 ejection,these being greatly reduced, but I still get hit on the head.. At this point, I feel my G19 is a good candidate for the Apex extractor...
JBarbaresi
10-14-12, 08:20
I bought a gen4 for the shorter grip because it felt better to hold. After a few years with it i decided to put the medium backstrap on and realized i shoot better like that. Now im back to having both. Imo the biggest advantage of the gen4 us the grip texture. Either will suit you based off your needs.
I'd seriously consider looking at something else or finding an earlier Glock.
The PPQ and HK USP 9 compact are looking real good to me now.
If the Apex part does not cure my problems...I am going that route and never buying another Glock unless it is a 2nd gen gun.
It is sad that Glock has gone the way of SIG in the fact that if you want a good one...you need to seek out an earlier model.
-brickboy240
Yeh, dumping my new Gen 3 G19 for a PPQ myself. It may get a reprieve if Randy Lee's miracle extractor works out and I get that CC-charged-but-item-backordered extractor in my hands before my LGS can find a PPQ, but it ain't looking good so far.
morbidbattlecry
10-14-12, 17:01
Well you guys are right. Brass to face right out of the box. New production gun with a dip extractor and 336 ejector. I was under the impression they where not using these anymore.. Back to Glock she goes.
I have a hard time believing it but I am accepting it that Glock has finally gone downhill.
Perhaps it is because the old man is not running anymore or he is too busy with other stuff.
I'll stick with my 2007 gen 3 26 and 17 thank you very much.
They will be the last glocks I own and most likely and I use them for everyday carry with CTC laser grips on it.
brickboy240
10-15-12, 12:24
You can have my G19....I am selling off cheap just to cut my losses. Been shooting Glocks since 92 and I am cutting my ties to this platform...and not really all that happy about it but tired of the nonsense and experimentation.
If you really want a polymer 9mm that run well and won't give you odd problems, the PPQ and P-30 seem like the only games left.
That is where I am going....have fun with your new Glock.
-brickboy240
morbidbattlecry
10-20-12, 15:07
Bit of an update: I decide to give it a go myself instead of sending my gun to glock and wasting my money going back and forth. I replaced my 336 ejector with a 30274 one. And my extractor with a LW 40. Ejection was way more consistent right off the bat. Not perfect but way better. I fired 50 rounds today and i had on hit my forehead and that was it. I was taking 3-4 to my face per magazine before that. Plus ejection was everyplace. I have a old style gen 3 extractor on the way and i'm hopping that will clear things up completely.
I have a 2010 Gen 4 17 that hasn't given me any problems with or without the updates. I also have a Gen 4 19 that is two months and has some erratic ejection. That being said, I also had a 19 bought new in 08 that had the same issue, so I don't believe erratic ejection is anything new.
Do your homework, there are other striker fired pistols (M&P, PPQ) out there, and plenty of first hand experience with them on this site.
This. I have a 2010 Gen 4 23 and have had ZERO issues in 8,000 rounds...weird and random this issue seems to be...
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