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Must I have a tax stamp before acquiring a less than 16" barreled upper receiver? I have an opportunity to purchase a 12.5" barreled upper NOW in a private sale. I already have several AR-15's in the safe but don't yet have an SBR-dedicated lower. If I am reading the ATF regs correctly I cannot legally acquire this 12.5" upper without first having a tax stamp. Sorry if I'm a NEWB at this SBR stuff but I don't want to pass up the sale if it's legal for me to get it now. Thanks in advance :)
You can acquire an SBR upper without any paperwork or legality concerns, but if you don't have an SBR-registered lower then it's theoretically illegal for you to possess it. What constitutes "possession" or "constructive intent" is a kind of a muddled area, but some might say that owning it is fine, just keep it with a friend or relative somewhere unrelated to the location of your other rifles. And don't post any more about it on the internet.
You can acquire an SBR upper without any paperwork or legality concerns, but if you don't have an SBR-registered lower then it's theoretically illegal for you to possess it. What constitutes "possession" or "constructive intent" is a kind of a muddled area, but some might say that owning it is fine, just keep it with a friend or relative somewhere unrelated to the location of your other rifles. And don't post any more about it on the internet.
Well said.
only if you do not have a non-registered lower receiver. if you have a non-registered lower and you purchase the SBR upper then it would be illegal. However -- You can purchase it and store it at a friend's or relative's house until you get a registered lower. As long as you do not have both the SBR upper and the non-registered lower under your control at the same time, then you will be fine.
All advice is on the money IMHO.
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I'm sure it goes without saying, but make sure that whoever volunteers to hold it for you either owns a registered SBR or AR pistol, or doesn't own any AR platforms at all.
I'm sure it goes without saying, but make sure that whoever volunteers to hold it for you either owns a registered SBR or AR pistol, or doesn't own any AR platforms at all.
Or a registered machine gun ar.
And btw, there is no such thing as "constructive intent."
So what if he had a stripped lower and was going to build it into a pistol?
only if you do not have a non-registered lower receiver. if you have a non-registered lower and you purchase the SBR upper then it would be illegal. However -- You can purchase it and store it at a friend's or relative's house until you get a registered lower. As long as you do not have both the SBR upper and the non-registered lower under your control at the same time, then you will be fine.
If it worries you just slap a pistol buffer tube in a lower.
If it worries you just slap a pistol buffer tube in a lower.
That can only be done IF the lower had never been made into a rifle, like by buying a stripped lower and making it a pistol.
That can only be done IF the lower had never been made into a rifle, like by buying a stripped lower and making it a pistol.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding your point, or maybe I'm misunderstanding ATF Rul. 2011-4, but I believe if you take a stripped lower and make it into a pistol, then convert it to rifle, it's legal to convert it back to a pistol and back and forth as often as one wishes.
http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2011-4.pdf
Guess what? Unless you broadcast it to the entire world via Youtube or the internet no one is going to know one way or another. People are just complicating things.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding your point, or maybe I'm misunderstanding ATF Rul. 2011-4, but I believe if you take a stripped lower and make it into a pistol, then convert it to rifle, it's legal to convert it back to a pistol and back and forth as often as one wishes.
http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2011-4.pdf
Here is what I did:
1. Have attorney draft a gun trust
2. Buy stripped lower
3. Buy 10.5" upper
4. Mail lower to someone that knows how to engrave per ATF regulations
5. Wait for the lower to be returned and verify everything looks okay. The name of your trust, city and state should be engraved on the lower
6. Build-out the lower as a PISTOL. Per ATF you can use a standard buffer tube, just take the stock off before attaching the tube to the receiver
7. Attach the upper and test fire your PISTOL to ensure you are happy with it
8. Complete ATF form 5320.1
8a. Check box 1A
8b. Check box (2) Corp or other business entity
8c. In 3b Enter the name and address of your trust
8d. Complete 3d and 3e
8e. In 4a put the original AR lower manufacturer information
8f. In 4b put "Short Barrel Rifle (SBR)"
8g. In 4c put "5.56MM" if that is your caliber etc...
8h. In 4d put the original mfg model as engraved on the lower
8i. In 4e put 10.5" if that is what you bought
8j. In 4f put 31" (if your barrel length was 10.5")
8k. In 4g put the original mfg serial number
8l. In 4h list the other markings on your receiver. I also added: (4.c continued)/.223/9MM/6.5MM/6.8MM/(caliber "Multi")
8m. In 4i enter "Any lawful purpose"
8n. In 4j check "No"
8o. Leave 5 & 6 blank
8p. In 7, sign your name
8q. In 8, print your full name followed by ", Trustee"
8r. In 9 enter date of signature
8s. Answer "No" to everything under question 10 & 11 then stop
9. Print 2 copies of the form. Print page 1 then flip the paper over and print page 2 on the back - Do this twice as you need to mail 2 copies (2 pages printed front to back)
10. Complete ATF form 5330.20. Some folks say you don't need this when doing a trust. I did it anyway. If they don't need it they will trash it. Read the instructions. Print in all upper case and spell everything out. No abbreviations.
11. Create a "Schedule A" (or whatever your attorney called it). This is a list of inventory owned by the Trust. First, fund the trust by transferring $1.00 cash into the trust. Next, add your soon to be SBR to the Schedule A. In the comments column (which I added), I printed "Pending BATFE Approval"
12. Go to the post office and get a money order for $200.00. Make it out to the "Department of Justice". The Money Order should be from your Trust, not you
13. Make a copy of your full Trust and Schedule A
14. Mail the Certificate of Compliance, the 2 copies of form 1, your Trust and the money order to the NFA branch (address on form 1)
15. In ~7 months you'll get one copy of your form 1 returned with a cancelled stamp on it. This is your approval.
16. Reattach your stock to the buffer tube. Rock on!
Notes:
1.Build as pistol so you can use the gun while you wait 7 months.
2.Don't send the paperwork to the ATF until you get the receiver back from the engraver and you have assembled + test fired to ensure everything works, otherwise you have to go back to the ATF should, for example, your lower get lost in the mail or you break the lower while hammering pins in-place.
3. Some folks talk about "constructive possession" of a SBR by having a AR pistol in the home with a stock laying around. This doesn't concern me but if it does you, leave the stock with a friend until you get your stamp.
4. If you don't go the Trust route and register in your own name, you will need: Fingerprints, Chief LEO sign-off (both forms) and passport photos (both forms). The feds will do a background check which might further delay getting approved.
I have an opportunity to purchase a 12.5" barreled upper NOW in a private sale.
I did exactly this years back when CMMG had some Colt LE trade in 11.5 uppers. Sat in my locker for a long time before I got around to getting a stamp.
For the cost and headache of all this, I just turned a spare stripped lower into a pistol lower, just for the purpose of function checking crap while I'm waiting on tax stamps. Not that cheap, but it helps when I find myself wanting to change my mind completely every few weeks.
That can only be done IF the lower had never been made into a rifle, like by buying a stripped lower and making it a pistol.
Interesting, so rifles cannot be changed to pistols or back n forth?
You guys are making this WAY more complicated than it needs to be.
After getting my sbr (and storing upper at a friends house) I now realize that no one is out trying to make you a criminal. This is a much bigger deal to you guys than it is to the ATFE.
You guys are making this WAY more complicated than it needs to be.
After getting my sbr (and storing upper at a friends house) I now realize that no one is out trying to make you a criminal. This is a much bigger deal to you guys than it is to the ATFE.
NEVER inject common sense in an ATF histeria thread! :mad:
Interesting, so rifles cannot be changed to pistols or back n forth?
You can convert a pistol into a rifle and back again. You can't convert a rifle into a pistol.
You guys are making this WAY more complicated than it needs to be.
After getting my sbr (and storing upper at a friends house) I now realize that no one is out trying to make you a criminal. This is a much bigger deal to you guys than it is to the ATFE.
Absolutely. There will never be roving bands of ATF agents out on NFA patrol. And in this state like a few others, there is no state registration, nor is there any state statute that requires that an SBR be registered with NFA. The cops around here generally couldn't care less, even if they knew what an SBR was.
+1
If a case of "constructive possession" actually exists, it likely came about as the result of a drug raid and the feds needed more charges to throw at the perp. The average person has nothing to worry about, especially if you have already mailed off your forms and the $200, as this shows intent to follow the law.
You guys are making this WAY more complicated than it needs to be.
After getting my sbr (and storing upper at a friends house) I now realize that no one is out trying to make you a criminal. This is a much bigger deal to you guys than it is to the ATFE.
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