View Full Version : Brass To Face! Gen 4 G17 Ejection Examined (Video)
Quiet Riot
10-07-12, 02:35
Well, I set out to make a video showing how great the ejection was in my Gen 4 G17. I've had roughly 900 rounds of perfect ejection, with lots of video to prove it on my YouTube channel.
Half way through getting my footage for this video, it happened. I started to get BTF.
I demonstrate the ejection of WWB, Speer Lawman 115gr FMJ, and Ranger T-Series 127gr +p+. Each of them ejected just fine for me previously, but by the time I switched camera angles, they all started to shoot brass into my face.
:blink:
As I show you, this BTF doesn't matter what ammo is being used, and it doesn't matter how you hold the pistol. There is definitely something that has shifted with how this pistol is engaging and ejecting brass, though I can't see anything wrong with the extractor that looks like abnormal wear.
This seems to match the new experience mentioned by others here, where you get great ejection from brand new Gen 4 9mms for a while only to have it end up in your face after 800 rounds or so.
Check it out and see for yourself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbgrioNpJSA
ETA: Here are the companion videos. The slow motion comparison was quite revealing.
Gen 4 G23- No Brass to Face
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwZ-npnBkBs
Gen 4 G17 & G23 Ejection in Slow Motion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOAtSPHmgwU
Great video, seems to mimic perfectly what my Gen 4 19 is doing only after 300-400 rounds.
Fire_Medic
10-07-12, 07:15
Same issues here brother, but mine started after 2K plus rounds which is even more frustrating. I have some parts en route from the mother ship to see if they will help any while I wait to try and snag an Apex extractor. If neither of those options is a fix then it will be going back to Glock.
Thanks for sharing
FM
G34Shooter
10-07-12, 10:44
In my testing, ammunition made a huge difference as BTTF happened more often with some ammo and not at all with others. Lower powered ammo was more prone and possibly the case rims made a difference as it varied.
Quiet Riot
10-07-12, 11:08
In my testing, ammunition made a huge difference as BTTF happened more often with some ammo and not at all with others. Lower powered ammo was more prone and possibly the case rims made a difference as it varied.
That's why I shot Winchester White Box, Speer Lawman 115gr FMJ, and Winchester Ranger T-Series 127gr +p+. They run the gammit of power. All ejected fine, then all ejected poorly- just like that.
G34Shooter
10-07-12, 11:17
Remington UMC was the worst followed by Magtech for me out of the dozen or so types before and during testing Apex's Prototype Extractor.
Gary1911A1
10-07-12, 11:33
Thanks for the video review. Something is wrong and like many I'm frustrated.
Quiet Riot
10-07-12, 14:37
I finally uploaded some high resolution photos of various parts that influence Glock ejection patterns. You can see them on my Facebook page at the following link:
Gen 4 G17 Ejection Parts (http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.427329803992880.96067.366902800035581)
I also uploaded footage showing normal ejection with the same ammo from earlier that range session. Facebook's compression screwed up the quality, but it still shows what you need to see. I honestly thought I was making a video showing how great some Gen 4s are...
Gen 4 G17 Normal Ejection Video (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=165593416912052)
good video, thanks for posting.
mirrors what mine do. Your last magazine (one loaded with ranger +p+) was what mine do almost every magazine. couple to the face, majority over my head and over my right shoulder. I just use cheap blazer brass or wwb
davebee456
10-07-12, 18:30
could it be that after a few hundred rounds the ejector rod spring wears out ?
Heavy Metal
10-07-12, 18:46
The Ejector has no rod or spring, it is just a stamping mounted in a plastic housing.
Quiet Riot
10-07-12, 21:22
The Ejector has no rod or spring, it is just a stamping mounted in a plastic housing.
I'm sure he meant the extractor spring loaded bearing, and that is certainly something that would affect the ejection pattern.
This is good quality reviews. Proof of the issue. My Ed Brown used to do it, now it just barely spits them, maybe a few on the forearm. Just super weak. I'm changing the spring before I send it back.
BTF, not bueno
Dude,
Looks like your spring loaded bearing is installed backwards;)
http://imageshack.us/a/img4/843/glockslb.jpg
Quiet Riot
10-08-12, 05:30
Dude,
Looks like your spring loaded bearing is installed backwards;)
http://imageshack.us/a/img4/843/glockslb.jpg
Good catch, though I do have an annotation about it on the video itself. I realize that some viewers don't show YouTube annotations, though.
It was for that one and only clip. I was running low on daylight for that part of the video and changed my mind about which Glock to have dismantled and which to have together. I goobered the install in my rush to get things going and didn't think it was noticeable when I edited the video after it was already dark. You're the second person to prove that a bad assumption. :)
The pistol was never fired that way, and the pictures I posted of the SLB on my Facebook page (linked above) show just that.
Quiet Riot
10-09-12, 07:11
Well, I was expecting to make one video of two Gen 4s performing exceptionally, but as you already know, that didn't work out. However, I still wanted to show that my Gen 4 G23 ejects great with everything I run through it.
I also made a video comparing the cycling of both pistols in 400fps slow motion. As you can see from the second, short video, the brass ejects very differently between the two. The brass is basically ejected too soon from the G17, causing it to bounce off the slide and reverse its spin before leaving the chamber.
You can see that the spring loaded bearing was correctly installed that day on the range in the slow motion video, too. :)
Gen 4 G23- No Brass to Face
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwZ-npnBkBs
Gen 4 G17 & G23 Ejection in Slow Motion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOAtSPHmgwU
Hmmmm, After watching you vid, It looks to me like the case is starting to eject at about the time the slide reaches it's farthest rearward movement, and when the ejector hits the case, It dosen't have the needed push to get off the extractor. I'm wondering..Have you tried a 336 ejector in the pistol? If I understand correctly, the 336 is longer, and may start ejection sooner in the cycle, before the slide reaches it farthest rearward movement...
Singlestack Wonder
10-09-12, 08:19
Good catch, though I do have an annotation about it on the video itself. I realize that some viewers don't show YouTube annotations, though.
It was for that one and only clip. I was running low on daylight for that part of the video and changed my mind about which Glock to have dismantled and which to have together. I goobered the install in my rush to get things going and didn't think it was noticeable when I edited the video after it was already dark. You're the second person to prove that a bad assumption. :)
The pistol was never fired that way, and the pictures I posted of the SLB on my Facebook page (linked above) show just that.
Keep in mind that with Glocks, plastic goes against plastic and metal against metal. That with a 336 ejector will fix any issues.
Doc. Holiday
10-09-12, 08:58
Here is an easy fix to Glock owners....BUY AN M&P!!! :D
Here is an easy fix to Glock owners....BUY AN M&P!!! :D
Been there, done that,..I had one with accuracy issues..I don't know about you, but I figure $60 or so for a ejector is alot cheaper that $200 for a fit barrel...:rolleyes: I would'nt even consider another 9mm M&P until it's proven they've fixed their little accuracy problem....And by proven I mean tested at 25yds..
Doc. Holiday
10-09-12, 11:55
Smith and Wesson have a lifetime guarantee, you can call them up and explain the situation and send it over to them. You have a point that a $60 fix is cheaper than a $200 fix (Unless it's free).
Smith and Wesson have a lifetime guarantee, you can call them up and explain the situation and send it over to them. You have a point that a $60 fix is cheaper than a $200 fix (Unless it's free).
Well, that's the problem..if you've been following any of the threads about M&P accuracy issues, alot of folks have sent them in...and nothing was done, most came back with a note saying they were "in spec"..I also am having a ongoing problem with my .45mid.. First 2500 rnds were flawless, then it started not wanting to feed LSWC's(which is what the majority of the first 2500 were)So, changed to plated RN's cases drop in and out of case gage,Still, I get some that stop on the way in the chamber.. So far, I've changed recoil springs (from S&W) replaced ejector with Apex unit, as I was getting hit with brass every so often, and changed mag springs. (also from S&W) I'm about at the end of my rope with it..I really don't want to send it back because I'll have to pull all of my Apex parts out of the pistol, and Frankly, I'm not interested in doing that either.... Not trying to start a argument, but selling the damn thing and buying a G21 is starting to look better and better all the time...
I had a new gen 3 G19 that produced BTF from the first magazine through the gun. A trip to Smyrna and a new extractor fixed the problem. Seems to work for some, but not all.
MattHallman
10-09-12, 13:54
I had a new gen 3 G19 that produced BTF from the first magazine through the gun. A trip to Smyrna and a new extractor fixed the problem. Seems to work for some, but not all.
What was Glocks turnaround time? I sent mine in a week ago and didnt know how long it should take.
Doc. Holiday
10-09-12, 15:10
Well, that's the problem..if you've been following any of the threads about M&P accuracy issues, alot of folks have sent them in...and nothing was done, most came back with a note saying they were "in spec"..I also am having a ongoing problem with my .45mid.. First 2500 rnds were flawless, then it started not wanting to feed LSWC's(which is what the majority of the first 2500 were)So, changed to plated RN's cases drop in and out of case gage,Still, I get some that stop on the way in the chamber.. So far, I've changed recoil springs (from S&W) replaced ejector with Apex unit, as I was getting hit with brass every so often, and changed mag springs. (also from S&W) I'm about at the end of my rope with it..I really don't want to send it back because I'll have to pull all of my Apex parts out of the pistol, and Frankly, I'm not interested in doing that either.... Not trying to start a argument, but selling the damn thing and buying a G21 is starting to look better and better all the time...
PM sent as not to pollute the thread.
DreadPirateMoyer
10-09-12, 15:31
Keep in mind that with Glocks, plastic goes against plastic and metal against metal. That with a 336 ejector will fix any issues.
What a joke. You're the same idiot who keeps telling people to install all-updated parts, and now you tell this guy to install the 336 (old) ejector? So which is it? New parts or old parts? If you're going to troll Glock threads all day with lies and misinformation, at least keep your lies freaking consistent. Dear Lord, how have you not been banned yet?
OP, I had the same problem as you with 3 different guns (2 19s, 1 17). The only fix was Apex's G-FRE. When the new batch comes out, I highly suggest picking one up (possibly along with a non-LCI SLB; will update you on the performance once I get it).
PM sent as not to pollute the thread.
Doc, PM sent back.
Quiet Riot
10-10-12, 17:13
Spoke to Glock today. They won't send me parts because I'm not a certified armorer, but they are sending me a return label for me to ship it to them on their dime. I'll give them a chance to fix this and take over if they don't.
DreadPirateMoyer
10-10-12, 18:19
They won't. Many of us from the 75 page thread have experienced exactly what you have and followed the exact course of action you are about to follow. Either they'll return the gun to you saying it met factory specs, or they'll replace a few parts and the problem will return in another 1000 rounds (if not earlier).
There is no long-term cure to this other than Apex's part, and even that isn't a guarantee.
Trust us, we've been there. I've been there (3 times). This problem isn't going away. Glock doesn't even recognize it exists most of the time.
What was Glocks turnaround time? I sent mine in a week ago and didnt know how long it should take.
I sent my gen 3 g19 in on Monday the 1st and had it back in my hands on Monday the 8th. Sent it in with a detailed note about my issues and solutions I have tried. Got it back with a 30274 ejector and new non dip extractor. The repair slip that came back with it said "inspected, upgraded, tested ok, meets spec.". I will be test firing it on Friday .
Quiet Riot
10-13-12, 07:22
They won't. Many of us from the 75 page thread have experienced exactly what you have and followed the exact course of action you are about to follow. Either they'll return the gun to you saying it met factory specs, or they'll replace a few parts and the problem will return in another 1000 rounds (if not earlier).
There is no long-term cure to this other than Apex's part, and even that isn't a guarantee.
Trust us, we've been there. I've been there (3 times). This problem isn't going away. Glock doesn't even recognize it exists most of the time.
I don't think my problem is just the extractor. I have significant gouging on the extractor depressor plunger where it protrudes from the slide, and it is clear that there is friction on the plunger not present on my G23. If the EDP can't move freely, I don't see how changing extractors is really fixing the problem.
I appreciate your frustration with this and warning that I won't be satisfied. However, I do want to see where this goes since I have provided solid documentation of the problem to Glock. I'm out nothing on my end- they paid for shipping, and I have plenty of other pistols to shoot in the meantime. :)
Every step of the way, I will document the performance of the pistol the same way.
Well, that's the problem..if you've been following any of the threads about M&P accuracy issues, alot of folks have sent them in...and nothing was done, most came back with a note saying they were "in spec"..I also am having a ongoing problem with my .45mid.. First 2500 rnds were flawless, then it started not wanting to feed LSWC's(which is what the majority of the first 2500 were)So, changed to plated RN's cases drop in and out of case gage,Still, I get some that stop on the way in the chamber.. So far, I've changed recoil springs (from S&W) replaced ejector with Apex unit, as I was getting hit with brass every so often, and changed mag springs. (also from S&W) I'm about at the end of my rope with it..I really don't want to send it back because I'll have to pull all of my Apex parts out of the pistol, and Frankly, I'm not interested in doing that either.... Not trying to start a argument, but selling the damn thing and buying a G21 is starting to look better and better all the time...
It's your reloads. I see this all the time. There's something you're not catching on your reloads. Old brass.
It's your reloads. I see this all the time. There's something you're not catching on your reloads. Old brass.
That's quite possible... I'll admit I haven't really taken that into consideration..I have a large amount of brass that I currently use that is mixed..some of it I know I've been using for years, and has been used in other.45's and some of it is fairly new..I'll try separating some of it and see what happens..
Rmplstlskn
10-13-12, 13:31
Sucks to see these threads as I am wanting a Glock 9mm... Oddly enough, my various XD's just keep flawlessly functioning...
Rmpl
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
MattHallman
10-13-12, 15:37
Buy it. Shoot it. You'll be fine.
Buy it. Shoot it. You'll be fine.
I vote don't buy it. Make them fix it first, they're not going to change anything if you keep giving them your money
Heavy Metal
10-13-12, 19:06
I have significant gouging on the spring loaded bearing where it protrudes from the slide
The spring-loaded bearing shouldn't protrude from the slide, if it does, you have the ejector plunger in backwards. The plunger rod should touch the extractor and the plastic spring-loaded bearing should touch the cover plate at the rear of the slide.
Quiet Riot
10-14-12, 02:03
The spring-loaded bearing shouldn't protrude from the slide, if it does, you have the ejector plunger in backwards. The plunger rod should touch the extractor and the plastic spring-loaded bearing should touch the cover plate at the rear of the slide.
Look at the photos I have linked. The shiny part is gouged, not the plasticky part. In other words, the extractor depressor plunger is gouged.
I just have my terminology wrong from reading too many internets. I will fix with edits.
Weird how the bearing in this case is not the part that bears on the area of movement...
Nice comparison video of a good pistol and one with bad ejection. That slow motion video comparing your G23 to the problem G17 is very interesting. I wish there was more high speed footage of problem glocks.
Quiet Riot
10-19-12, 18:46
Glock watched the videos and decided to replace every part that didn't have a serial number. Seriously, it is all new except for the slide, barrel, frame, sights, and cover plate.
Interestingly enough, the ejector and the RSA are the same numbers, and the extractor is another "dip" extractor. I did call to ask a Glock warranty tech about that, and he had not heard that some were getting non-"dip" extractors put into their Gen 4 guns by Glock. He was going to look into it.
So far, I couldn't ask more from Glock. They sent me a FedEx label for overnight shipping on their dime, and I had my G17 in my hands again a week later.
None of this matters if it's not fixed- I realize that. However, they did everything short of giving me a new pistol, and I'm guessing that will be next if I have any further documentable problems.
I won't be able to get back to the range until Wednesday to test the replacement parts. However, I will be sure to make a brief follow-up video including slow motion footage of the ejection.
MattHallman
10-23-12, 18:30
My gen3 g19 has had the brass to face problem since new. I recently purchased a new 30274 ejector to replace the 336 from glockparts.com. I no longer get brass in my face. It still shows weak extraction but it throws it in a neat pile in the 4 o'clock position.
I may try a new extractor and HRED or just leave as is.
Figured this may help others with the same problem. $10 was a cheap and simple fix.
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