View Full Version : AR lower of choice?
I have just returned from Sacramento Black Rifle and viewed several stripped lowers that ran from $100 to $200. When I asked the young man behind the counter what explained the difference in price, he said "the quality of anodizing" Huh? What say you? What is your lower of choice to use in a milispec build?
DeltaSierra
10-08-12, 14:05
There is a thread in the AR GD on this very subject.
As you will see, there are varying opinions on the subject....
http://creativepromotionalmarketing.com/showthread.php?t=114254
To the OP:
I get my Glocks from them using the Blue Label program. I'm pretty sure that is the area's LE store of choice as well.
However, just because a kid works at a gun store doesn't mean he knows what he's doing. That was a pretty ignorant statement.
Anyway, stick with a known quality LR from a known entity. It may be a few bucks more, but you know everything will line up and fit the way it should.
Or, go to Newtown Firearms in Placerville. The gunsmith there is very knowledgable and AR friendly. He can help you out. You'll know what I mean if you get there and look around.
MrRightWing
10-08-12, 16:05
I've had a great experience with my stripped PSA lower. Fits like a glove with my Rainier upper and was pretty cheap too.
I like Mega forged lowers (OEM for Riflegear and Rainier Arms). They specify the tolerances held to, and the anodizing is a deep black with teflon added (yes you can feel the difference). You can find them for under $110 nowadays.
If you just want something functional, get a blem BCM or PSA.
Pretty much any lower will work with the exception of a few junk companies...just check the one you want for flaws and if its g2g then buy it.
I've used two stripped armalite lowers and they were both fine, cheapest ones at the local shop i frequent.
sent from my overcompensation tool known as the galaxy note
My favorites are the Mega Machine made lowers and those made by Barnes Precision Machine. All are in spec and have really nice fit/finish.
Pretty much any lower will work with the exception of a few junk companies...just check the one you want for flaws and if its g2g then buy it.
I've used two stripped armalite lowers and they were both fine, cheapest ones at the local shop i frequent.
sent from my overcompensation tool known as the galaxy note
This has also been my experience
DD and Noveske have the nicest magwell's, and KAC and the AXTS ADAC are the nicest ambi's going.
All of my lowers are Colt's and LMT's, but if I was buying a new lower today I would probably go with the AXTS which is really, really nice.
Aero Precision makes nice lowers.
RedRallyeZ
10-08-12, 20:00
Cant say enough about my Palmetto State Armory lower (or whole rifle for that matter)
I'll pick up another whenever that $49 deal comes back around
DD and Noveske have the nicest magwell's, and KAC and the AXTS ADAC are the nicest ambi's going.
All of my lowers are Colt's and LMT's, but if I was buying a new lower today I would probably go with the AXTS which is really, really nice.
If I didnt go KAC ambi id go Noveske.
I have just returned from Sacramento Black Rifle and viewed several stripped lowers that ran from $100 to $200. When I asked the young man behind the counter what explained the difference in price, he said "the quality of anodizing" Huh? What say you? What is your lower of choice to use in a milispec build?
LOL, well I guess he could be correct (as there are different types of anodizing), but my guess is that they are all the same in this regard.
To a certain degree, you are paying for a name. Do you want two "cock's" attempting to beat a spider to death or do you want an Iron Cross??
If you want a TRUE TPD following lower, there is really only one choice and that is Colt. With that said, some of my fav lowers are:
DD
RA
Lancer
Lowers are not nearly as important as what is in them. ;)
C4
To a certain degree, you are paying for a name. Do you want two "cock's" attempting to beat a spider to death or do you want an Iron Cross??
C4
Definately the first option, that is Exactly i want on my rifle. :suicide:
bleaman225
10-08-12, 22:33
To a certain degree, you are paying for a name. Do you want two "cock's" attempting to beat a spider to death or do you want an Iron Cross??
C4
I almost shit myself the first time I saw the "spider smushing cocks". I don't know who would ever agree to that design. Yes, I do know it is supposed to be a spider but damn, come on...
LOL, well I guess he could be correct (as there are different types of anodizing), but my guess is that they are all the same in this regard.
To a certain degree, you are paying for a name. Do you want two "cock's" attempting to beat a spider to death or do you want an Iron Cross??
If you want a TRUE TPD following lower, there is really only one choice and that is Colt. With that said, some of my fav lowers are:
DD
RA
Lancer
Lowers are not nearly as important as what is in them. ;)
C4
So where can one get a lancer lower?
TangoSauce
10-08-12, 23:05
Noveske, LaRue, and BCM are what I own. Three of them are Noveske, two are N4 and 1 in the Gen 2. LMT will probably be my next purchase.
So where can one get a lancer lower?
Rainier arms used to, now they just sell the magazine extentions.
madcratebuilder
10-09-12, 07:02
I have just returned from Sacramento Black Rifle and viewed several stripped lowers that ran from $100 to $200. When I asked the young man behind the counter what explained the difference in price, he said "the quality of anodizing" Huh? What say you? What is your lower of choice to use in a milispec build?
There is a difference in the finish from different manufacturers. Other than integrated ambi controls it's the biggest difference I see between lowers. I don't think the difference is worth $100.
Lowers from AP, PSA, SAA have a less robust finish than lowers from AXTS, Noveske, ArmaLite and Mega.
DOD shows different types/classes of mil-spec finish, the problem is finding the details on this.
Magic_Salad0892
10-09-12, 07:25
Sacramento Black Rifle still exists?
I have used quite a few stripped different lowers, so I will just jot down a few things about each:
RRA: Old RRA lower with the old logo. The safety doesn't fit quite right, and has been beating up the selector stop tabs. Other than that, it works fine.
CMMG Inc: Non blem lower was perfect, and everything lined up without any issues. Anodizing was perfect and has a slick feel to it. I used it as a basis for an SBR. I did get a blem lower, and did a little work to the mag well so that GI mags will function and drop free. Not going to do any more work just to get P-mags drop.
TOS non-billet stripped lower: Bought one on sale several years ago for $99. Fit was perfect, but the finish ,while durable and even, wasn't slick like the CMMG. I used it as the base for another SBR and it has been flawless.
Double Star: Have used a few of these over the years, and when they first came out, they were a nice choice as far as things go. No stupid panther, not cast, and all in spec. Finish was nice and slick. Still have one with a 20" FN A2 on it. Still love the A2.
Noveske Gen 1 Blem: Best deal I ever got on a stripped lower. Got it free a few years ago when I ordered an upper from them. The only blemish was a small nick in the mag well fence. hardly noticeable, and something that Colt wouldn't even blink at. the anodizing on this lower is perfect, and smooth. Currently waiting on a F1 to finish it as another SBR.
Thoughts on others that I've never owned, but have handled quite a bit:
DPMS: Crap. Never liked the way they felt. Always seemed to have a rough finish and never felt like a quality piece. and yeam the logo doesn't mean much, but please... I'd take the dueling cocks over that stupid panther any day.
BM: Acceptable. But in today's market, just don't see spending my money on them.
Armalite: Same as BM.
Also had an Ameetec Arms stripped lower when they came out, and to that point, they were the nicest stripped lowers that were available at the time. Too bad they ended up screwing themselves. Anyone ever hear what really went down with them?
So where can one get a lancer lower?
We have them.
C4
snakedoctor
10-09-12, 10:22
If I could find one for sale, I'd buy another LaRue lower in a heartbeat.
TangoSauce
10-09-12, 10:29
If I could find one for sale, I'd buy another LaRue lower in a heartbeat.
LaRue lowers are just about impossible to find now. There was one in classifieds a few months back that I am kicking myself for not jumping on when it was up. However for the OP, buying a LaRue lower is even more difficult as LaRue does not ship lowers to CA. I think RifleGear bought a few at one point but other than that. It's a sad state of affairs in CA.
Also, to the OP, be sure you are looking at lowers that are CA legal and not identified by name on the 'list'. I'm sure if you are transferring through a CA FFL they will bring this to your attention should you not be aware of the AWB laws.
Link?
Not on our website yet.
C4
fallenromeo
10-09-12, 11:21
If I was building an ambi I would go with the AXTS but they are so damn expensive. Very nice looking design though.
I just built a Rainier Arms lower. All in spec and at a decent price point. The people I spoke to on the phone were professional and helpful.
I hear that they are Mega lowers with a RA rollmark? Is that accurate?
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
I had two Rainier Arms lowers built last year, best lowers I've had.
MiamiCracker
10-09-12, 12:48
I got a Detroit Gun Works lower for $89, anyone have any experience with them?
There is a thread in the AR GD on this very subject.
As you will see, there are varying opinions on the subject....
http://creativepromotionalmarketing.com/showthread.php?t=114254
I hate to drift the thread but I think the lower question has been answered so...
What's up with the link to a completely different domain that seems to be a clone of the forum? Seems kinda fishy.
I hate to drift the thread but I think the lower question has been answered so...
What's up with the link to a completely different domain that seems to be a clone of the forum? Seems kinda fishy.
I was wondering exactly the same thing.
AXTS if they ever get them in stock.
I buy BCM assembled lowers from Grant when they are available. Can't go wrong.
DeltaSierra
10-09-12, 19:47
What's up with the link to a completely different domain that seems to be a clone of the forum? Seems kinda fishy.
Uh, you mean the site that I have been logging into for the last, like, six months, since the DDOS stuff started a while back...?
The link is fine - nothing bad will happen by logging in there.... If you doubt me: http://creativepromotionalmarketing.com/showthread.php?p=1409745#post1409745
Suwannee Tim
10-09-12, 19:52
I bought five Stags for a good price. I assembled and shot each a couple of thousand times to make sure there were no issues. One I permanently assembled, two have been engraved for SBRs, paperwork went in the mail today, two put back. All were just fine.
I've got my ass handed to me I don't remember how many times with money in the stock market. Every two or three years or so the market drops 20%, 30%, even 40% in a day or two. You just shit out of luck when that happens. I've never seen that happen with guns or ammo.
Aero Precision - I used to build with Spikes, but AP is awesome. Very tight fit with no wobble in any of my uppers. Finish is good. The price for AP is pretty low too. I got mine for $92 each.
TM 80% forgings - are from the same foundary as AP because the proof mark is the same (keyhole).
There is a difference in the finish from different manufacturers. Other than integrated ambi controls it's the biggest difference I see between lowers. I don't think the difference is worth $100.
Lowers from AP, PSA, SAA have a less robust finish than lowers from AXTS, Noveske, ArmaLite and Mega.
DOD shows different types/classes of mil-spec finish, the problem is finding the details on this.
My experience has been the opposite of this. My Aero lower matches my Daniel Defense upper pretty closely.
Aero is hard to beat, especially for 75 bucks from Brownells.
Ordered a Mega Friday. I'm hoping Ranier will soon have the upper back in stock.
TacticalSledgehammer
10-15-12, 08:37
I'm kinda liking that big ugly seekins precision lower. If I build a competition style AR that's what I'll buy.
I like Mega forged lowers (OEM for Riflegear and Rainier Arms). They specify the tolerances held to, and the anodizing is a deep black with teflon added (yes you can feel the difference). You can find them for under $110 nowadays.
If you just want something functional, get a blem BCM or PSA.
I own Spikes, Noveske, and Mega.
Like you, I prefer the Mega.
Aero Precision - I used to build with Spikes, but AP is awesome. Very tight fit with no wobble in any of my uppers. Finish is good. The price for AP is pretty low too. I got mine for $92 each.
TM 80% forgings - are from the same foundary as AP because the proof mark is the same (keyhole).
I have had good success with AP as well, a store that is local to me (New Frontier Armory) uses their forgings for their own NFA branded lowers; I like to keep things local as much as possible and normally a stripped lower local is actually cheaper all things considered.
ROUTEMICHIGAN
10-15-12, 14:11
I run the following:
1) Colt
2) JD Machine (supporting a local San Diego company) stripped lower built w/Grant's innards.
3) Daniel Defense
Honestly can't tell the difference between the 3. All work flawlessly.
In regards to lowers. Other than being out of spec (or an untried material/synthetic) is there anything else to really worry about other than cosmetics?
Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2
I have a DD a Noveske Gen 2(grant) 2 BCM blems (grant also) a spikes(pirate not penis) a colt and a Para Usa.
Noveske and DD are the best looking and feeling and have great mag wells.
The spikes, colt and the BCMs are fine
The para ordnance does not like uppers besides theirs and it is hella tight.
TI forged.
Anything of good quality without a logo preferably.
I've had a couple of the popular brands and here's my experience with them (all forged):
PSA - smooth anodizing albeit on the thinner side on the ones I had (3 of them), light engraving depth with everything within spec and nice magwell. Thought these were excellent value at $50 and even $79.
Spikes - very good and extremely smooth anodized finish with a nice black, deep engraving that was inconsistent between the two I had (consecutive serials ordered at the same time too), mediocre magwell that is not as good as any of the other lowers to mentioned in my post, everything within spec. Has a 3rd selector setting engraved for looks and offers novelty rollmarks all at reasonable prices ($79-99).
Noveske Gen1 (non-chainsaw) - good anodizing with a slightly rough fell with decent engraving depth, very nice magwell flare at around 45deg, very tight tolerances when fitting LPK initially but these things always will break in w/ use. Paid $150 to match with a spare Noveske upper so you can say I did it for the rollmark. It's a quality lower, but I honestly think your money would be better served by the next two lowers.
Noveske Gen2 (non-chainsaw) - beautiful anodizing, reinforced buffer tube area, uniquely flared magwell in a forged lower that's a joy to work with on reloads, excellent engraving. I got it for $225 and the price has gone up a bit (~$265 now?); pricey yes, but you pay for the features and quality and in the long-run the price different isn't really much. I will admit that I feel like the selector detent hole might've been drilled a few micrometers too deep so the selector doesn't feel the same in it as other lowers I got (but 100% functional and safe).
Mega Arms - as many mentioned here, one of best forged lowers out there. Offers a textured grip in front of the magwell, a tensioning screw behind the grip tang to reduce upper fit slop, nice 60deg magwell flare, very clean engraving at a medium depth and the finish feels very unique and screams durability. Great price with a msrp of 129, but you can get for 110-120. I believe the Rainier Arms lower is the same thing just rollmarked for Rainier.
I have been very happy with my Spike's lowers. The two I have were smooth and even, I couldn't see any flaws at all. I'm not all that fond of spiders but I am a fan of the Jolly roger.:)
http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh564/ztug/b39b69bb.jpg
http://www.ar15armory.com/forums/AR15-Receiver-t15231.html
Here is a list of who makes what. It may have changed a little but you get the idea.
Lewis Machine & Tool
LMT Lauer DSArms PWA Eagle Armalite Knights Armament Barrett
ContinentalMachine Tool
Stag Rock RiverArms High Standard Noveske Century (New) Global Tactical CLE S&W MGI WilsonTactical GrenadierPrecision Colt
LAR Manufacturing
LAR Bushmaster Ameetec DPMS CMMG Double Star FultonArmory Spike's Tactical
JVP
Double Star LRB Charles Daly
Mega Machine Shop
Mega GSE Dalphon POF AlexanderArms
Olympic
Olympic SGW Tromix Palmetto Dalphon Frankford Century (Old)
SunDevil
SunDevil forged billet receivers
Superior
Superior Arms Lauer (New)
AeroPrecision
AeroPrecision
tried the search function didn't really come up with anything relevant or recent to my question, so here it goes.
There's a shop local to me where I buy my pistols (glocks) he is also an armalite dealer. He's done right by me in the past and I like giving local guys business if I can. He has armalite stripped lowers for ~$110.
Are armalite lowers worth it? I was originally just going to wait for a bcm blem to come in stock from Grant, but again I like giving a local guy business.
I'd like to buy a lower in the next month or so, as I'd like to start an assembly. It's going to be a long procurement process as I have other irons in the fire, but I'd like to get my hands on a lower.
Thanks for the help gents, hopefully this very answer was not missed in my searches.
tried the search function didn't really come up with anything relevant or recent to my question, so here it goes.
There's a shop local to me where I buy my pistols (glocks) he is also an armalite dealer. He's done right by me in the past and I like giving local guys business if I can. He has armalite stripped lowers for ~$110.
Are armalite lowers worth it? I was originally just going to wait for a bcm blem to come in stock from Grant, but again I like giving a local guy business.
I'd like to buy a lower in the next month or so, as I'd like to start an assembly. It's going to be a long procurement process as I have other irons in the fire, but I'd like to get my hands on a lower.
Thanks for the help gents, hopefully this very answer was not missed in my searches.
Nothing wrong with that. I like buying lowers locally that way there's no additional FFL transfer fee.
I'm doing the lazy thing and just buying the BCM completed lowers.
Tried a blem BCM lower also, and it was just fine.
snakedoctor
10-18-12, 08:29
What do you guys think of the SMOS brand lowers? I heard they make all the lowers for LaRue Tactical.
Being lazy also. Just bought a complete LMT Sopmod lower.
One of my Sergeants has had good luck with Essential Arms. I can only report that I bought 4 lowers with trigger kits and he installed the trigger guards for free so I wouldn’t scratch the lowers.
Just picked up my forged Mega lower at my dealer. It's a work of art I tell ya.
Just picked up my forged Mega lower at my dealer. It's a work of art I tell ya.
No, Im telling you!
Im surprised there isnt some kind of "mega" cult or something.
Army Chief
10-18-12, 16:21
The only lowers I've ever purchased as standalone items were all Noveske N4s, though I did invest in a single AXTS AX556. The Noveskes have a well-known track record, and as most of them would going to end up bolted to Noveske uppers anyway, this just struck me as a common sense approach.
I've been quite pleased with the design, production hallmarks and compatibility of the AXTS, as well. It was purchased to anchor a current/ongoing PDW project in 300 BLK, and as a southpaw, the unique feature set of the AX556 would seem to offer a few new tricks for old dogs like me.
Prior to the announcement of the AX566, I had more or less standardized upon the KAC IWS lower , and it remains a favorite. The only down side to this approach is that KAC won't sell these lowers in a stripped configuration, and guys are generally looking at stripped lowers to save some money, so that particular advantage is pretty well negated ... unless you just know that you've got to have an IWS lower.
Assuming similar components of acceptable quality, I'm not sure that I would have strong preferences, save to say that many smaller companies seem to become overly-enthusiastic about their own logos and such, most of which are fairly crude, garish or just generally unattractive. It seems like the uglier the logo, the larger and deeper the company wants to inscribe it on the weapon. I am definitely a fan of the "less is more" approach here.
It shouldn't be a big deal, perhaps, but some of these lowers are also just plain embarrassing because of the themes that they feature (zombies, biowafare, pirates -- even if the latter are pretty funny). I just think that we're better off portraying a mindset that speaks to professionalism and competence than one which suggests we aren't taking any of this seriously and/or that we're basically just a bunch of morons. If we're going to be successful in defending Assault Weapons (their term, not ours) against senseless restrictions in the future, we're going to need to present our case as patriots and professionals who take this very seriously, and who are absolutely committed to responsible ownership.
AC
NoveskeFan
10-18-12, 16:38
It shouldn't be a big deal, perhaps, but some of these lowers are also just plain embarrassing because of the themes that they feature (zombies, biowafare, pirates -- even if the latter are pretty funny). I just think that we're better off portraying a mindset that speaks to professionalism and competence than one which suggests we aren't taking any of this seriously and/or that we're basically just a bunch of morons. If we're going to be successful in defending Assault Weapons (their term, not ours) against senseless restrictions in the future, we're going to need to present our case as patriots and professionals who take this very seriously, and who are absolutely committed to responsible ownership.
AC
100% agree on this.
As per the OP, and also in agreement with AC, Noveske makes awesome lowers...not that I'm biased in any way:D I have an AXTS AX556 on order. Should be shipping soon. I expect it to live up to the reviews.
AC, I have a LMT Sopmod Lower on the way.
By your standards, would you be ok with that choice?
Have a chance to pick up an lwrc lower or a stag lower anyone have a preference in those two?
everyusernametaken
10-18-12, 18:50
Assuming similar components of acceptable quality, I'm not sure that I would have strong preferences, save to say that many smaller companies seem to become overly-enthusiastic about their own logos and such, most of which are fairly crude, garish or just generally unattractive. It seems like the uglier the logo, the larger and deeper the company wants to inscribe it on the weapon. I am definitely a fan of the "less is more" approach here.
It shouldn't be a big deal, perhaps, but some of these lowers are also just plain embarrassing because of the themes that they feature (zombies, biowafare, pirates -- even if the latter are pretty funny). I just think that we're better off portraying a mindset that speaks to professionalism and competence than one which suggests we aren't taking any of this seriously and/or that we're basically just a bunch of morons. If we're going to be successful in defending Assault Weapons (their term, not ours) against senseless restrictions in the future, we're going to need to present our case as patriots and professionals who take this very seriously, and who are absolutely committed to responsible ownership.
AC
Very well said. This is exactly what bothers me about these toy-themed components - that they reflect not only on the person who owns them, but ultimately, on all of us. The anti-gun folks will seize any opportunity to discredit our cause. Most don't even care whether we might be responsible and safe, when they can simply point to features that they perceive as an indication that we are not taking ownership seriously, as a means to gain support from other ignorant people. It's just giving them ammunition (no pun intended) to fight for further restrictions on what we can own.
Army Chief
10-18-12, 18:57
AC, I have a LMT Sopmod Lower on the way.
By your standards, would you be ok with that choice?
I'm no oracle of wisdom, but yes -- I would absolutely be ok with that choice.
AC
No, Im telling you!
Im surprised there isnt some kind of "mega" cult or something.
There is. For a $100 initiation fee I can get you in on the First Level.
But don't tell anybody.
saddlerocker
10-19-12, 12:10
I really like the Mega Forged as well, Even SBR'd it.
Rainier is next on my list (Made by Mega)
I like the Gen 1 Noveske too.
Hoping to get the SAW rollmark real soon. Gets no better.
I've come to appreciate those lowers with some kind of magwell flare.
I've come to appreciate those lowers with some kind of magwell flare.
For aesthetic appeal or for performance gains of reloading?
For aesthetic appeal or for performance gains of reloading?
I perceive the mag to go in smoother/slightly quicker.
My sample here is a flared M&P Sport lower vs a normal Stag lower. Stag is also a tad tighter, but mags still drop free. (That must be only because it's brand new virgin receiver).
Salamander
10-21-12, 16:16
Very happy with my Ranier Arms ambi lower. It went together nicely, good fit with one of Grant's LPKs. There's very little play with my BCM upper attached. The anodizing is very even and has a deep, rich finish... yes I know many of us just beat up the finish in subsequent use, but having personal experience with anodizing shops in other contexts, it does suggest attention to detail and quality which in this case seems to carry through to less visually obvious aspects as well.
Army Chief
10-21-12, 20:33
Very happy with my Ranier Arms ambi lower. It went together nicely, good fit with one of Grant's LPKs. There's very little play with my BCM upper attached. The anodizing is very even and has a deep, rich finish... yes I know many of us just beat up the finish in subsequent use, but having personal experience with anodizing shops in other contexts, it does suggest attention to detail and quality which in this case seems to carry through to less visually obvious aspects as well.
Good point. I don't own one of their lowers, but as a rule, Rainier Arms kit tends to earn very high marks from me.
AC
I've enjoyed my Rainier Arms lower and put it through some use. Not one issue. Though I personally think the "upper receiver tension screw" is useless. Hell, I wasn't even sure what it was when I first got it.
I have only had two build so by no means an expert but the two lowers I have used were LRB on the first build and DSA for the second.personally out of the two I liked the LRB better than the dsa.everything feels a lot tighter in the dsa like mag well and how the safety operates.
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