View Full Version : Big news on the horizon for fans of AR compensators
Larry Vickers
10-09-12, 08:01
As many of you know I am not the world's biggest compensator fan- in most cases the ones that are currently on the market have serious downsides; too loud, too much flash at night, too expensive, or being sold by a company with questionable morals and ethics
Well I am proud to announce the best 'tactical' style compensator yet is almost ready for prime time; great efforts have been made to try and walk the thin line between compensation and flash suppression without excessive muzzle blast- if you want the worlds best compensator this ain't it; if you want the best flash suppressor this ain't it - but what this hopes to be is the best blend of both- and at a reasonable price point as well as being sold by one of the finest companies headed by one of the finest individuals who has ever called the firearms industry home- I consider this individual a personal friend and it will give me great pleasure to announce this new offering to the buying public
When I get the green light I will make a post here on M4C and film a segment on it for TacTV - stand by.....
LAV
BCM's compensator, perhaps? Finally? I hope?
I think the ST Dynacomp is the way to go right now because it's just as effective, if not more effective as a BattleComp, and about $60 cheaper. I'd guess the Spike's Dynacomp falls under your "questionable morals and ethics" category, though... just going out on a limb here.. ;)
Any indication on how long of a wait we'll have? Count me in for two.
Looking forward to further specifics and your feedback.
Sounds good Larry!I know you can't have both good flash hide w/ comp so I hope (sounds like)sombody has finally figured it out as far as 'the best of both worlds'!Will be waiting Sir!Thanks!
I thought the A2 was already the best of both worlds. Anyway, I look forward to seeing this new product.
I thought the A2 was already the best of both worlds. Anyway, I look forward to seeing this new product.
If by "both worlds" you mean decent flash suppression and zero compensation then I guess...?
Magic_Salad0892
10-09-12, 09:03
Let's hope this will be a suppressor adapter as well.
S. Galbraith
10-09-12, 09:12
Let's hope it is a little more affordable than the Battlecomp. I went back to A2s because I often end up banging my muzzle on the ground during transitions and higher stress training. I really messed up a Vortex and a BC doing that, but a $8 A2 replacement doesn't give me much heartache.
If by "both worlds" you mean decent flash suppression and zero compensation then I guess...?
I guess it depends on what gun it's on, but for me, even on my 10.3" SBR, muzzle flip is not an issue. I've run it with a Battle Comp and an A2 and cannot tell a difference.
Let's hope this will be a suppressor adapter as well.
This! I can only hope.
Let's hope it is a little more affordable than the Battlecomp. I went back to A2s because I often end up banging my muzzle on the ground during transitions and higher stress training. I really messed up a Vortex and a BC doing that, but a $8 A2 replacement doesn't give me much heartache.
If every time when you do transitions, and your muzzle bangs on the ground, you're probably doing something wrong. On top of that, if you bang it hard enough to deform the muzzle, you're probably doing something else wrong.
Magic_Salad0892
10-09-12, 09:31
If every time when you do transitions, and your muzzle bangs on the ground, you're probably doing something wrong. On top of that, if you bang it hard enough to deform the muzzle, you're probably doing something else wrong.
How short do you have to be to have the muzzle hit the ground?
jonconsiglio
10-09-12, 09:50
I do not like comps/brakes at all, but I'm interested in this. Pat Rogers has been running the new BCM comp and though it's been a very short time, he has favorable reviews. Thread and pics on Lightfighter in the Stud Board.
I hope this is something different than the BCM as more quality players is always a good thing, but the "one of the finest companies/finest individuals" comment leads me to believe it is BCM. Looking forward to an update.
snakedoctor
10-09-12, 09:51
Can't wait to see it
S. Galbraith
10-09-12, 09:52
This! I can only hope.
If every time when you do transitions, and your muzzle bangs on the ground, you're probably doing something wrong. On top of that, if you bang it hard enough to deform the muzzle, you're probably doing something else wrong.
Maybe. It only bangs if I am on my knees. We also do most of our training on a backtop, with the occasional pointed piece of gravel that always seems to literally stamp/stake the end of the muzzle device. Most of us wear knee pads as the surface tears up our knees and pants. A number of the other officers who train in this range have damaged their muzzle devices as well to the point of just sticking with A2s. The surface sucks, and the agency is unwilling to spend the money to resurface. However, my thoughts are that training on uncomfortable surfaces that can damage equipment only better prepares me for environments that may not be as nice as a shooting range.
Let's keep this thread on the track and talk about the product not tactics.
Let's hope this will be a suppressor adapter as well.
My thought exactly. I have several Battle Comps, and they work well for me. If this new product is a suppressor adapter also, I'd be more interested. Looking forward to learning more.
jonconsiglio
10-09-12, 10:03
If it's not the BCM that Larry is referring to, then I apologize. here's some video with the BCM, though it's not a review. *The full auto is the BCM.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0i47MLpSp4&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Look forward to hearing details on the new fh/c. I've always just run A2's but held off getting something like the BC products due to cost, and due to the muzzle flip on my rifles not bothering me much. But if there were a more affordable quality fh/c that would add a noticeable improvement in compensation, I'd look at it.
Magic_Salad0892
10-09-12, 10:23
If it's not the BCM that Larry is referring to, then I apologize. here's some video with the BCM, though it's not a review. *The full auto is the BCM.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0i47MLpSp4&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Thanks for the video, Jon. I didn't even know BCM was making a Comp/FH until right now.
BCM comp it is!
Check out their product pages for the new BCM GunFighter compensator coming in November. Definitely excited.
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCMGUNFIGHTER-Compensator-MOD-0-5-56-p/bcm-gfc-mod-0-556.htm
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCMGUNFIGHTER-Compensator-MOD-0-5-56-p/bcm-gfc-mod-1-556.htm
TangoSauce
10-09-12, 10:37
I guess it depends on what gun it's on, but for me, even on my 10.3" SBR, muzzle flip is not an issue. I've run it with a Battle Comp and an A2 and cannot tell a difference.
When I replaced my A2 on a BCM middy with a KAC triple tap I didn't notice any significant change either. Perhaps more noticeable with rapid fire, but not a huge change.
Look forward to more information LAV.
S. Galbraith
10-09-12, 10:43
BCM comp it is!
Check out their product pages for the new BCM GunFighter compensator coming in November. Definitely excited.
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCMGUNFIGHTER-Compensator-MOD-0-5-56-p/bcm-gfc-mod-0-556.htm
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCMGUNFIGHTER-Compensator-MOD-0-5-56-p/bcm-gfc-mod-1-556.htm
Your post is worthless without pics. :D
jonconsiglio
10-09-12, 10:47
S. Galbraith, check out the video I posted or the "Hello 21" thread in Lightfighter's Stud Board. "21" being another rifle similar to Filthy 14.
Apparently the difference between the two models is the length giving the option to pin and weld to a 14.5".
if it will work as well or better than my battlecomp`s and cost less,then i`am all for it!
$90 Is still a bit pricey. I was hoping it would be more in the 50$ range seeing as how I have never minded the A2.
If LAV endorses it then its probably excellent.
This may sound a little stupid, but if it can be run through ATF to confirm its not a flash supressor, then a whole slew of market coverage opens up in some ban states.
Everyone keeps saying the A2 compensator is one of the best and I agree.
However I'm also behind the lines where many LEO don't know one from the other so will just arrest and where some departments that do look for such things have a standing policy of 'if you can put the tip of you pinky in it, its a flash hider'
Having some sort of, I guess certification, could go a long way toward easing folks minds enough to purchase.
EG: PWS FSC556
Just a couple cents tossed into the middle of the table with the full understanding that there are bigger issues to be delt with first so it wouldn't be a first day first shipment thing.
bullitt5172
10-09-12, 11:28
I've been running a BCM comp for the past couple of months and it's been excellent. Hard to tell the difference between the BCM and my Surefires, other than the BCM has way less signature at night. Paul nailed it..
m1a_scoutguy
10-09-12, 11:30
This may sound a little stupid, but if it can be run through ATF to confirm its not a flash suppressor, then a whole slew of market coverage opens up in some ban states.
Everyone keeps saying the A2 compensator is one of the best and I agree.
However I'm also behind the lines where many LEO don't know one from the other so will just arrest and where some departments that do look for such things have a standing policy of 'if you can put the tip of you pinky in it, its a flash hider'
Having some sort of, I guess certification, could go a long way toward easing folks minds enough to purchase.
EG: PWS FSC556
Just a couple cents tossed into the middle of the table with the full understanding that there are bigger issues to be delt with first so it wouldn't be a first day first shipment thing.
Good point,,I'm in the same boat !! I love me BC,,but a less expensive,,equally effective Muzzle Device will be a welcome addition !! :D
Looking forward to these!
C4
Hrm...
I seem to be the only one that thinks it might be a compensator from DD...
I guess we will have to see.
Hrm...
I seem to be the only one that thinks it might be a compensator from DD...
I guess we will have to see.
LAV's post indicates otherwise. He's clearly talking about Paul, the owner of BCM.
I believe the key phrase in LAV's post is : but what this hopes to be is the best "blend of both" . IMHO, every muzzle device that goes on the end of a barrel (comps,brakes, flash hiders, hybrid comp/flash hider devices, suppressors, etc.) are a compromise in one area or another and only you can decide where you want its priorities to be. I think whether it has ports, slots, holes or anything else the laws of physics still apply. As we know, the powder used in the ammo along with barrel length are also big factors in the flash department. And, this might be why you may want to think twice or three times before permanently attaching a muzzle device to your barrel, as there is always something new on the horizon coming out.
LAV's post indicates otherwise. He's clearly talking about Paul, the owner of BCM.
Clearly?
Paul may be a great guy but he is not the only one in the industry that has quality moral values...
Given the recent press surrounding the BCM comp, it may very well be the case but we will see.
'Well I'm glad I held out on getting a Battlecomp 2.0. Thing seemed like a torch at night lol
Littlelebowski
10-09-12, 12:24
I've been running a BCM comp for the past couple of months and it's been excellent. Hard to tell the difference between the BCM and my Surefires, other than the BCM has way less signature at night. Paul nailed it..
How about the concussive signature?
This is something I might have to look into. I'm running a PWS FSC556 on my BCM middy and the concussion is definitely noticeable.
This may sound a little stupid, but if it can be run through ATF to confirm its not a flash supressor, then a whole slew of market coverage opens up in some ban states.
Everyone keeps saying the A2 compensator is one of the best and I agree.
However I'm also behind the lines where many LEO don't know one from the other so will just arrest and where some departments that do look for such things have a standing policy of 'if you can put the tip of you pinky in it, its a flash hider'
Having some sort of, I guess certification, could go a long way toward easing folks minds enough to purchase.
EG: PWS FSC556
Just a couple cents tossed into the middle of the table with the full understanding that there are bigger issues to be delt with first so it wouldn't be a first day first shipment thing.
I'm under the impression that since the ban ended the BATFE no longer certifies compensators. As a survivor of living behind the lines I would ask the appropriate State agency.
Mike
How about the concussive signature?
Yeah, I'd like to see how it fairs when shooting prone in the dirty.
Cool can't wait. I took think it's Daniel Defense.
headed by one of the finest individuals who has ever called the firearms industry home
LAV
That would make it Paul Buffoni if we are talking main players in the industry. I know Monty isn't coming out with a comp right now, so that excludes one of the other best guys who is lesser known.
There are a few people who have recently commented that they hope the BCM comp is under $30, compared things to an A2 FS, or other generally obscene comments.
If you want wonder performance, cutting edge break through, products which stand out and take months or even years of R&D, you are out of your head to think it won't cost you.
If $100 is too much, stay home from the bars or make your coffee at home for awhile. There are lots of things I can't afford, I feel your pain.
NeoNeanderthal
10-09-12, 16:39
I seem to remember when the KAC Triple Tap was the new hotness and people were crying about the price.... then the battlecomp came out and people were stoked about the price.
90 bucks for a compensator that works like a battlecomp but with even less price? Thats incredible.
skullworks
10-09-12, 16:50
If it's priced under $100 it can be exported without the need for a slew of paperwork and obscene fees. Sounds good to me.
:dance3:
Definitely interested. Want to see how it compares to an A2.
S. Galbraith
10-09-12, 17:43
There are a few people who have recently commented that they hope the BCM comp is under $30, compared things to an A2 FS, or other generally obscene comments.
If you want wonder performance, cutting edge break through, products which stand out and take months or even years of R&D, you are out of your head to think it won't cost you.
If $100 is too much, stay home from the bars or make your coffee at home for awhile. There are lots of things I can't afford, I feel your pain.
It's more about weighing measurable benefit to preoccupation with inconsequential increments. If the device is worth its weight in benefit when proper shooting technique is applied, then I will purchase one. I have been trying out new muzzle devices since I purchased my first preban in 1997.
It's more about weighing measurable benefit to preoccupation with inconsequential increments. If the device is worth its weight in benefit when proper shooting technique is applied, then I will purchase one. I have been trying out new muzzle devices since I purchased my first preban in 1997.
You've got to be kidding, I'm quoting this just so it doesn't get changed.
Save your money.
It's more about weighing measurable benefit to preoccupation with inconsequential increments. If the device is worth its weight in benefit when proper shooting technique is applied, then I will purchase one. I have been trying out new muzzle devices since I purchased my first preban in 1997.
Totally agree the like the saying goes, you get what you pay for! If the benifit is there I don't mind paying a little extra $$ for things that work.
I seem to remember when the KAC Triple Tap was the new hotness and people were crying about the price.... then the battlecomp came out and people were stoked about the price.
90 bucks for a compensator that works like a battlecomp but with even less price? Thats incredible.
That is my thoughts as well.
S. Galbraith
10-09-12, 18:25
You've got to be kidding, I'm quoting this just so it doesn't get changed.
Oh, I stand by my statement. A new muzzle device rears its head at least annually. Everybody gloats over it for a while, and then it becomes yesterday's news and they go back to previously used equipment.
As I stated, if the device offers measurable benefit once proper shooting technique is applied and it fits your mission needs, then it is is worth the money. I do look forward to trying the BCM device out, and I will remain as objective as possible when testing it in timed courses of fire.
Oh, I stand by my statement. A new muzzle device rears its head at least annually. Everybody gloats over it for a while, and then it becomes yesterday's news and they go back to previously used equipment.
As I stated, if the device offers measurable benefit once proper shooting technique is applied and it fits your mission needs, then it is is worth the money. I do look forward to trying the BCM device out, and I will remain as objective as possible when testing it in timed courses of fire.
Just stop.
BCM doesn't really do the "product / flavor of the week" game. The fact that they are willing to put their name on it is enough for me to consider buying one for my next build. Knowing that they have been developing it for quite a while now, proves that they won't bring a product to market unless it works. No BS or marketing hype. I won't sell off my battlecomps to replace them, but I will definitely try one of these. If it's made by BCM and endorsed by LAV, I stand up and take notice.
mkmckinley
10-09-12, 19:29
Jesus nobody has even tried the thing yet. Or seen one for sale.
S. Galbraith
10-09-12, 19:30
Jeeze, guys. There is nothing wrong with taking a new product with a grain of salt. In regard to a battle compensator, it tends to be a device that is a jack of all trades but a master of none. If it can do it all with few drawbacks......great. BCM is an outstanding company, so no arguement there. However, looking at a new battle compensator cautiously is not an approach just done by me:
As many of you know I am not the world's biggest compensator fan- in most cases the ones that are currently on the market have serious downsides; too loud, too much flash at night, too expensive, .....
LAV
I'm under the impression that since the ban ended the BATFE no longer certifies compensators. As a survivor of living behind the lines I would ask the appropriate State agency
They did it for PWS in Feb. '06
>link to pdf of letter< ( http://primaryweapons.com/store/pc/documents/DNTC_JTAC.pdf)
AFA state agencies, did I mention the pinky test?
That's the SP 'method of determination' in several regions through the state, and even then they won't give any kind of certification or whatever because there is no legal definition of 'flash hider/flash supressor' in any state law or policy, just a blanket 'cannot have unless on pre-ban or you are a LEO'
The further up the food chain something of that nature gets, the exponentially lower the odds of any useful response coming back at all in this lifetime become.
We've had people pressing for info like that since just prior to activation date of the federal ban and still haven't received any answers.
If ATF don't then they don't, but no way of knowing unless trying or asking.
As I understand it, its free AFA fees and I believe two units must be submitted.
In any event, I hope the rollout of the new device is a success for all involved and look forward to more details as they are released.
Jesus nobody has even tried the thing yet. Or seen one for sale.
I've been running a BCM comp for the past couple of months and it's been excellent. Hard to tell the difference between the BCM and my Surefires, other than the BCM has way less signature at night. Paul nailed it..
He tried it.
Jesus nobody has even tried the thing yet.
Three guesses what is under here.... you have three or four people in this thread who have them.
http://stickman.rainierarms.com/galleries/BCM/STCK3106-1200-Stick.jpg
Larry Vickers
10-09-12, 22:27
Well you guys nailed it ( not that it was too hard to figure out ) - I am indeed talking about the new BCM comp
I can tell you this - Paul has put a lot if time and effort into this thing and the fact BCM is offering it means anyone remotely interested in comps should check it out; remember to support the companies that support you with quality products, reasonable prices, and excellent customer service - Paul B and BCM get A+ marks in all 3 categories
Ill keep you posted as I know more
Be safe
LAV
I'm certainly excited to see what the design can do. It could be a dream come true for many.
I'd like to see what the great Ken Hackathorne says about it. I know how much he just loves comps on a carbine. :D
If you can sway him, you have a great product...
(Not at all saying the LAV endorsement isn't enough in itself)
Three guesses what is under here.... you have three or four people in this thread who have them.
http://stickman.rainierarms.com/galleries/BCM/STCK3106-1200-Stick.jpg
I am very interested to see what this design is like, i've been pondering what muzzle device to use on my new SR-15. And not fair for the tease Stick, not fair at all.
Oh, there's some photos out there...
I wonder how long it will take before someone asks if there will be suppressor mount versions in the future ?
friendlyfireisnt
10-09-12, 23:04
Looking forward to this. I think anytime we have innovation within the industry it's a good thing.
I have a build I am going to be purchasing parts for in about 3-4 weeks (bonus time!). It's going to be almost all BCM parts. Hoping that maybe it's released by the time I make my purchases.
BCM doesn't really do the "product / flavor of the week" game. The fact that they are willing to put their name on it is enough for me to consider buying one for my next build. Knowing that they have been developing it for quite a while now, proves that they won't bring a product to market unless it works. No BS or marketing hype. I won't sell off my battlecomps to replace them, but I will definitely try one of these. If it's made by BCM and endorsed by LAV, I stand up and take notice.
So whole heartedly agree mtdawg169!
I can't wait to get one, I think being able to combine the benefits of a flash hider and a compensator is brilliant.
Also you can't go wrong with it being produced by such a top notch, stand up quality company like BCM ---and at a more reasonable price =win/win situation.
It does say a lot about the product when industry experts who typically aren't compensator fans promote it......
I am very interested to see what this design is like, i've been pondering what muzzle device to use on my new SR-15. And not fair for the tease Stick, not fair at all.
I agree, it isn't, but I've been asked not to post any pictures of it yet.
jonconsiglio
10-09-12, 23:56
It's in the video I posted on the first page and there are photos in the "Hello 21" thread in the Stud Board on Lightfighter. Not what I would have expected it to look like.
Kind of looks like an A1 with larger openings and a reverse cone in the front.
I noticed a new device on the eag lightweight rifle showcased on panteo's channel.
Sorry for the stupid question, but who is LAV referring to as the company with questionable ethics?
Must be out of the loop...
Larry Vickers
10-10-12, 04:44
I will not divulge which company I was referring to in the 'questionable morals and ethics category ' - I will say it is not Spkies Tactical; I have no personal experience with Spikes so therefore no axe to grind with them
I wanted to get that out right now before this turns into a 'LAV hates Spikes' thread on the errornet
Be safe
LAV
Wait, is this the same comp that was discussed in a thread quite some time ago?
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=104771
I got to try these out at a Haley Strategic AR/AK class back in June, Travis had a couple with him on BCM MK18 uppers for T&E. Now that the cat seems to be out of the bag it looks like I can finally talk about it.
Overall this brake impressed the hell out of me, we had a 16"/MB556K combo that we swapped back and forth with to get a feel of the pros and cons. The surefire brake had better recoil reduction, but a tad more muzzle rise IMO. However even considering the longer barrel, the MB556K was just obnoxious in the blast/concussion department.
I was surprised how tame it was on the SBR, it was not obnoxious at all. It was at day so I didn't get to check out the flash suppressing qualities,but we shot from both conventional prone and urban, and the blast signature was not bad at all.
All in all pretty similar to the BC, maybe a touch less blast sig/concussion/touch more recoil/about even muzzle rise, IMO, but I only put about 100 rounds through it.
Don't get me wrong, I have a 16" MRP with the BC 2.0 and I love it, but IMO for me it falls a bit too much on the compensator side of the scale. If it were up to me, I would trade a touch of recoil reduction/muzzle rise for a bit less concussion and blast signature(although it isn't really that bad) This brake seemed to hit squarely what I wanted.
I'm in the process of SBR'ing two rifles, and I plan to buy 2 of these brakes to put on them, if that says anything. I almost feel like it is what a BC would be, if it were optimized for an SBR.
hotrodder636
10-10-12, 06:49
Wait, is this the same comp that was discussed in a thread quite some time ago?
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=104771
Couldn't get your link to work, but I seem to remember a thread which included videos of Travis Haley (I think) running the BCM comp. it did look similar to an A2 with an inverted cone. In the thread IIRC BCM was mentioned as the designer.
Couldn't get your link to work, but I seem to remember a thread which included videos of Travis Haley (I think) running the BCM comp. it did look similar to an A2 with an inverted cone. In the thread IIRC BCM was mentioned as the designer.
Just tried it and it works for me. Search "New BCM Compensator" and you should find it......its a thread from back in May that includes several pics of it.
I just bumped the previous thread so it should be easy to find for those wanting to see possible pics.
bullittmcqueen
10-10-12, 10:50
I got to try these out at a Haley Strategic AR/AK class back in June, Travis had a couple with him on BCM MK18 uppers for T&E.
............
I'm in the process of SBR'ing two rifles, and I plan to buy 2 of these brakes to put on them, if that says anything. I almost feel like it is what a BC would be, if it were optimized for an SBR.
Thanks for posting this. When my NFA paperwork returns, I'm building an mk18 and was primarily interested in how this BCM comp would perform on an SBR. This may be a serious competitor or superior device to the BC. I love my BC 1.0 but it is on a 16".
Looking forward to trying this one out.
jonconsiglio
10-10-12, 13:09
I wonder how long it will take before someone asks if there will be suppressor mount versions in the future ?
Check page 1 bro.
Littlelebowski
10-10-12, 13:12
Right here.....
****Coming in November!!****
This Compensator was not designed as a gamers comp. It was designed for tactical applications to reduce muzzle rise, flash signature, noise, and lateral pressure.
The BCMGUNFIGHTER Compensator Mod 0-5.56
Exterior dimensions consistent with Mil-specs for mounting BFA or flash hider mounted suppressors.
Tuned slots and interior cone offer maximum in recoil mitigations, compensation of muzzle-rise, and flash reduction.
Designed to have much less side blast and noice associated with typical compensators. Makes it perfect for working in teams for CQB. It is a compensator that is built for the 21st Century Gunfighter!
Stainless Steel construction for maximum corrosion resistance
Should be installed by a qualified military armorer.
Even if we're talking BCM.. a very top quality company...
I'm still very skeptical of the next miracle muzzle device.
Even if we're talking BCM.. a very top quality company...
I'm still very skeptical of the next miracle muzzle device.
I don't expect a miracle. I expect it to be similar to the Battlecomp in performance, but hopefully a little better flash suppression. Like LAV said, a good compromise.
I can't wait to try the BCM. I really hope it has some good compensator qualities while keeping at least an adequate flash hiding feature. BC just doesn't do it for me, no flash hiding.
In other news, doc cleared me to shoot again after shoulder procedure. It's been almost 2 months!
I'm still very skeptical of the next miracle muzzle device.
This coming from the guy who rails were the work of the devil a few years ago.... ;)
This coming from the guy who rails were the work of the devil a few years ago.... ;)
Yep. If the device is kicking ass in two years, I'll buy it! :cool:
I will not divulge which company I was referring to in the 'questionable morals and ethics category ' - I will say it is not Spkies Tactical; I have no personal experience with Spikes so therefore no axe to grind with them
I wanted to get that out right now before this turns into a 'LAV hates Spikes' thread on the errornet
Be safe
LAV
Thanks Larry. Wasn't trying to stir the pot or anything. Just sounded like something well known.
Hell, I missed the whole Recoil Magazine fiasco while really tied down and busy, so just seeing if I missed something.
S. Galbraith
10-10-12, 15:00
This coming from the guy who rails were the work of the devil a few years ago.... ;)
I'll have to agree with him on this one. The increased cost to the rifle to have quad full length machined rails is pretty substancial. Usually anywhere from an extra $500-$1000 depending on the rail system. If all the mounting points on the rails aren't being used, then that's a lot of expensive machine work for nothing. Once a modular upper with removable rail pieces becomes mainstream, I think the market will see fewer full length machined rails. Free floating rails are also all the rage right now, even though standard DI systems are generally much more accurate than pistol driven systems and with the right optics and ammo an operator can routinely hit 12" gongs at 600m. I was amazed with what I could do with my old A2 at 500m and younger eyes.
Anyway, I've gone off topic enough in this thread.
Looking forward to the update and pics and video Larry. I have wanted a BC for quite awhile now, but like others could not justify the price for the results. If I had to go into business making just one item for the AR market, it would be a muzzle device!!! :D
If it is priced reasonable they will sell a bunch of em!!!
I'd like to see what the great Ken Hackathorne says about it. I know how much he just loves comps on a carbine. :D
If you can sway him, you have a great product...
(Not at all saying the LAV endorsement isn't enough in itself)
We are going to get Ken one for T&E.
C4
justin_247
10-10-12, 17:14
The increased cost to the rifle to have quad full length machined rails is pretty substancial. Usually anywhere from an extra $500-$1000 depending on the rail system.
Where are you buying your rail systems from? The most expensive usually max at out at around $300.
Free floating rails are also all the rage right now, even though standard DI systems are generally much more accurate than pistol driven systems and with the right optics and ammo an operator can routinely hit 12" gongs at 600m. I was amazed with what I could do with my old A2 at 500m and younger eyes.
What the heck do free-floating rails have to do with piston systems?
You are posting some really strange crap.
Littlelebowski
10-10-12, 17:36
I'll have to agree with him on this one. The increased cost to the rifle to have quad full length machined rails is pretty substancial. Usually anywhere from an extra $500-$1000 depending on the rail system. If all the mounting points on the rails aren't being used, then that's a lot of expensive machine work for nothing. Once a modular upper with removable rail pieces becomes mainstream, I think the market will see fewer full length machined rails. Free floating rails are also all the rage right now, even though standard DI systems are generally much more accurate than pistol driven systems and with the right optics and ammo an operator can routinely hit 12" gongs at 600m. I was amazed with what I could do with my old A2 at 500m and younger eyes.
Anyway, I've gone off topic enough in this thread.
In a word.....huh?
We are going to get Ken one for T&E.
C4
Do you one as well Grant? What did you think about it? Long enough for us with 14.5in guns to make them legal when pinned?!
Do you one as well Grant? What did you think about it? Long enough for us with 14.5in guns to make them legal when pinned?!
Carlo, the Mod 1 is extended for 16.1" OAL I believe.
Do you one as well Grant? What did you think about it? Long enough for us with 14.5in guns to make them legal when pinned?!
I don't have one, but have seen pics and have talked to Paul at length about it. I expressed my dislike for comps (like LAV) and he put my concerns at ease. So I think this will be a winner for many (especially at the price point).
There are two version (long and short). The long one will allow you to pin it and make a 14.5" a 16 OAL.
C4
30 cal slut
10-10-12, 20:05
In a perfect world, I would be happy with the A2 flash hider.
However, for those of us behind enemy lines (CA, NJ, NY, CT, MA) where state AWB's are in effect, thereby making A2's on threaded barrels illegal in most circumstances, this news is most welcome.
We had the pleasure of having LAV up here to teach a carbine class, with most of the students using permanently attached muzzle brakes.
Larry remarked to me to they were giving him a headache after a few hours on the line!
Most muzzle brakes are dragon's breath at night, I am anxious to see how well the BCM comp works in that regard.
Since 70 percent of self defense shootings occur at night, I am more concerned with flash than with comp/recoil control. If the device does both, then great. Also, it is nice to have a FH that can bust through a window without getting bent.
Do those stats apply to those using rifles? I would say no. I would be willing to bet that most shootings are shotguns and pistols.
Since 70 percent of self defense shootings occur at night, I am more concerned with flash than with comp/recoil control. If the device does both, then great. Also, it is nice to have a FH that can bust through a window without getting bent.
Looking at photos on LF, I am expecting this thing to kick up a dust signature when in prone, just like any other brake (I've not shot my Battle comp in prone yet to comment). I guess it is unavoidable with such devices, although every time a new device is announced, I am quietly hoping it will have this particular aspect reduced. I'll be waiting on further user reports.
I don't have one, but have seen pics and have talked to Paul at length about it. I expressed my dislike for comps (like LAV) and he put my concerns at ease. So I think this will be a winner for many (especially at the price point).
There are two version (long and short). The long one will allow you to pin it and make a 14.5" a 16 OAL.
C4
BCM has obviously done their homework and developed this with careful thought and intelligence around it's function and design.
Music to my ears about making the longer version.....currently shopping for a 14.5".
Can't wait until it gets released.
jonconsiglio
10-11-12, 05:31
Looking at photos on LF, I am expecting this thing to kick up a dust signature when in prone, just like any other brake (I've not shot my Battle comp in prone yet to comment). I guess it is unavoidable with such devices, although every time a new device is announced, I am quietly hoping it will have this particular aspect reduced. I'll be waiting on further user reports.
A couple shooters have commented that it kicks up less dust than the BattleComp they were shooting side by side. But, I'm just repeating what I've heard.
vicious_cb
10-11-12, 07:16
The standard of flash suppression for me is the A2. If it something has more flash than an A2 then its a no go. Im hoping this is "the one." As good as the battlecomp is you can still see the flash from 25yds which is slightly more than an A2.
The increased cost to the rifle to have quad full length machined rails is pretty substancial. Usually anywhere from an extra $500-$1000 depending on the rail system.
Please stop, I'm surprised people are being this nice about it, but you are new to this board and clearly do not have the knowledge base you think you do. There are some very large boards where people can post while being factually incorrect, this isn't one of them.
Back to the topic, in another month it will be interesting to see the comments as more users chime in with their experiences in actual use of the BCM comp.
Back to the topic, in another month it will be interesting to see the comments as more users chime in with their experiences in actual use of the BCM comp.
This. We've got too much speculation going on here about a product that hasn't been released yet. Looking forward to some hands on reviews.
Does anyone know if this is another BCM / Vltor joint project? It seems like a project of this nature would require significant engineering resources in order to truly provide a new approach to a fairly common part such as a muzzle device.
Does anyone know if this is another BCM / Vltor joint project? It seems like a project of this nature would require significant engineering resources in order to truly provide a new approach to a fairly common part such as a muzzle device.
Could be. Good speculation. :D
Could be. Good speculation. :D
Yeah, I know! :p It's silly to speculate on how a product that most of us haven't seen will perform. I'm actually interested in hearing more about the design. BCM has been working on this for a while, so it seems reasonable to think that they actually put some thought into the design and weren't just out to jump on the comp bandwagon. That's not really their style, you know?
militarymoron
10-11-12, 16:13
Does anyone know if this is another BCM / Vltor joint project?
i know that it's not.
i know that it's not.
Thanks MM. I was just curious.
Larry Vickers
10-12-12, 09:06
I just got in a BCM upper with the new BCM comp- I am teaching a class in Vegas next week and I will take the upper and do some informal testing during and after the class
After dinner one night I and my local host plan on going back to the range to put some rounds down range in the dark to see what the new comp looks like at night
I'll touch base with a report once I have accomplished all of the above
Until then...
LAV
jonconsiglio
10-12-12, 11:18
This. We've got too much speculation going on here about a product that hasn't been released yet. Looking forward to some hands on reviews.
I still don't understand why there's any speculation when there are numerous reviews posted for the past week or two by people that have been running them for a couple months.
If you haven't seen the pics yet, I'd suggest doing so as it's an interesting design. The video I posted on the first page shows it, but I can't recall how well. Pat Rogers and a few others that posted pics on Lightfighter show it very well.
From what I've seen, it has slots similar to an A1, but they are larger. Then, instead of an open front or a closed front like most other brakes, it has what looks somewhat like a cone. So, when the gases enter the brake, nested of hitting a flat wall, they hit a cone, or ramp.
By all accounts so far, it has little concussion and blast felt/heard by the shooter or those on the line next to them, comparatively speaking. There's supposedly less blast from the sides than other available options as well. Some may recall what was said of the BattleComp early on too. Many claimed it was essentially an A2 that mitigated recoil. Wishful thinking. I hope with the BCM comp we can look at it for what it is and see the trade off. That way, maybe we can base our decisions on reality and not what we wish it to be.
Pat has them on a number of rifles, some that are student loaners. Most are 14.5", if I'm not mistaken, and they've been through a couple shoot houses now. Also, Travis Haley was running them, including one on a 10.5" last weekend. This class was outdoors, but it was said by a couple people I know that attended the class that it was the least blast/concussion they've seen on that short of a rifle aside from a flash hider.
So, there's no need for all this nonsense plaguing M4c as of late to bring this thread down with the rest of them. There's no need for speculation or $1,000 hand guards when the facts are all out there. I know it's hard for some when they have to step outside the forum, let alone AR General Discussion, to find the answers, but they are there if we look.
DreadPirateMoyer
10-12-12, 12:09
Anyone know if this will work with a Gem-Tech HALO? Specifically, the Mod 1 that will make a 14.5" legal?
This could totally change my build. Exciting. :)
jonconsiglio
10-12-12, 12:59
Anyone know if this will work with a Gem-Tech HALO? Specifically, the Mod 1 that will make a 14.5" legal?
This could totally change my build. Exciting. :)
You'll need to verify, but understanding is that it will.
DreadPirateMoyer
10-12-12, 13:30
That's potentially very good news. I know the Mod 0 will (most likely) work with the HALO judging by its language, but should the Mod 1 do the same, it'd rock. Most 14.5"-legal muzzle devices aren't compatible with suppressors (like the BC 1.5), at least that I know of.
Anyone know if this will work with a Gem-Tech HALO? Specifically, the Mod 1 that will make a 14.5" legal?
This could totally change my build. Exciting. :)
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/BCM/BCM_HALO.jpg
Yes it will!
C4
That's potentially very good news. I know the Mod 0 will (most likely) work with the HALO judging by its language, but should the Mod 1 do the same, it'd rock. Most 14.5"-legal muzzle devices aren't compatible with suppressors (like the BC 1.5), at least that I know of.
MOD 1 will work.
C4
DreadPirateMoyer
10-12-12, 15:22
You just blew my freaking mind, Grant. AWESOME news.
Thank you. :)
justin_247
10-12-12, 15:29
It might not be a VLTOR/BCM collaboration, but the base of the device looks very similar to the base of a VLTOR VC-1 or PWS FSC 556. I bet BCM collaborated with one of those two companies.
It might not be a VLTOR/BCM collaboration, but the base of the device looks very similar to the base of a VLTOR VC-1 or PWS FSC 556. I bet BCM collaborated with one of those two companies.
Did you read what MM wrote? I've got no doubt as to how solid his connections are in the industry.
I still don't understand why there's any speculation when there are numerous reviews posted for the past week or two by people that have been running them for a couple months.
If you haven't seen the pics yet, I'd suggest doing so as it's an interesting design. The video I posted on the first page shows it, but I can't recall how well. Pat Rogers and a few others that posted pics on Lightfighter show it very well.
From what I've seen, it has slots similar to an A1, but they are larger. Then, instead of an open front or a closed front like most other brakes, it has what looks somewhat like a cone. So, when the gases enter the brake, nested of hitting a flat wall, they hit a cone, or ramp.
By all accounts so far, it has little concussion and blast felt/heard by the shooter or those on the line next to them, comparatively speaking. There's supposedly less blast from the sides than other available options as well. Some may recall what was said of the BattleComp early on too. Many claimed it was essentially an A2 that mitigated recoil. Wishful thinking. I hope with the BCM comp we can look at it for what it is and see the trade off. That way, maybe we can base our decisions on reality and not what we wish it to be.
Pat has them on a number of rifles, some that are student loaners. Most are 14.5", if I'm not mistaken, and they've been through a couple shoot houses now. Also, Travis Haley was running them, including one on a 10.5" last weekend. This class was outdoors, but it was said by a couple people I know that attended the class that it was the least blast/concussion they've seen on that short of a rifle aside from a flash hider.
So, there's no need for all this nonsense plaguing M4c as of late to bring this thread down with the rest of them. There's no need for speculation or $1,000 hand guards when the facts are all out there. I know it's hard for some when they have to step outside the forum, let alone AR General Discussion, to find the answers, but they are there if we look.
I've seen the pics and the videos. My point was that we shouldn't be so quick to denounce or accept a product until we can get some better data than what is currently available. I expect BCM to put out a good product, but I personally haven't seen enough information yet to know if I will spend my hard earned cash on one. What I intended was to discourage all of the more "extreme" discussion on both sides of the spectrum and try to keep the thread on topic. There is no need for those that don't like comps to come in here and pre-judge a product that we still have limited information on. In the same vein, we can also do without the speculation suggesting this is some kind of wonder-comp. LAV clearly stated in his original post that it is a compromise design, a good comp, but not the best and at the same time will not provide excellent flash suppression because it is a comp. For me, I want to know specifically how it compares to the Battlecomp in terms of flash suppression & blast. We'll have to wait a little longer to know that.
justin_247
10-12-12, 19:01
Did you read what MM wrote? I've got no doubt as to how solid his connections are in the industry.
He didn't address PWS.
And why is it that Pat Rogers is allowed to discuss it and post pics, but you are not?
He didn't address PWS.
And why is it that Pat Rogers is allowed to discuss it and post pics, but you are not?
Sorry, I just read your comment as applying to BCM and Vltor, I never looked at the PWS part. Whatever makes you think that, I don't see it.
Regarding other people posting pictures, I'm not sure or bothered by whatever reasons are involved. I don't feel overly threatened by other people shooting pictures of an item before I do. It's all good. :)
justin_247
10-12-12, 21:38
Regarding other people posting pictures, I'm not sure or bothered by whatever reasons are involved. I don't feel overly threatened by other people shooting pictures of an item before I do. It's all good. :)
Major kudos to you for your integrity.
jonconsiglio
10-12-12, 21:56
Pat Rogers is not a photographer. I doubt his pics damage Stick's credibility in any way. ;)
Stick's images will be seen by many on numerous open forums, not to mention by the followers on his Flickr account.
Lightfighter is not an open forum, so the pics are not available to those that are not members.
Also, when Stick posts, he not doing a review. When Pat posted, it was a small review. Pat works closely with BCM as well.
jonconsiglio
10-12-12, 22:03
I've seen the pics and the videos. My point was that we shouldn't be so quick to denounce or accept a product until we can get some better data than what is currently available. I expect BCM to put out a good product, but I personally haven't seen enough information yet to know if I will spend my hard earned cash on one. What I intended was to discourage all of the more "extreme" discussion on both sides of the spectrum and try to keep the thread on topic. There is no need for those that don't like comps to come in here and pre-judge a product that we still have limited information on. In the same vein, we can also do without the speculation suggesting this is some kind of wonder-comp. LAV clearly stated in his original post that it is a compromise design, a good comp, but not the best and at the same time will not provide excellent flash suppression because it is a comp. For me, I want to know specifically how it compares to the Battlecomp in terms of flash suppression & blast. We'll have to wait a little longer to know that.
Where did you see pics? You're a member on Lightfighter??
My point was that it's not a wonder-comp. Also, there are a couple side by side comparisons with the BattleComp suggesting the BattleComp may be a little better at muzzle rise while the BCM, according to a few from the classes and shoot houses, is a little better at flash and is not as obnoxious.
Hopefully we'll here from Larry on this as well. The BCM comp has been in use for a couple months by some. Travis Haley has been using them for some time now, so has Pat Rogers.
Also, when Stick posts, he not doing a review. When Pat posted, it was a small review. Pat works closely with BCM as well.
My reviews are typically done for Military Times.
jonconsiglio
10-12-12, 22:59
My reviews are typically done for Military Times.
I knew that too, and it slipped my mind. Sorry about that.
For me, I want to know specifically how it compares to the Battlecomp in terms of flash suppression & blast. We'll have to wait a little longer to know that.
I didn't get to compare it to a BC on a similar rifle, but the BCM brake on a 11.5" wasn't appreciably worse for the shooter IMO than the BattleComp on my 16" MRP. Maybe a little, but at no point was I "Holy shit, this is uncomfortable" When you consider the difference, it should be a bit tamer in similar applications.
My MRP with the BC 2.0 is actually a bit over-comped with some loads, the muzzle will actually dip a touch when fired.
I've got 4k+ rounds through a BC and only 100 or so through the BCM, but my basic impression that I took away was that if you broke it down on a sliding scale, with flash suppression/increased recoil on the left side, and compensation, reduced recoil/ increased concussion, flash signature on the right, the BCM is to the left of the BC. Close, but a noticeable difference.
As always YMMV, and that was my subjective impression from one shooting session. I think they're both awesome muzzle devices, and the BCM is probably the better choice for SBRs.
Where did you see pics? You're a member on Lightfighter??
Yes, I am.
I didn't get to compare it to a BC on a similar rifle, but the BCM brake on a 11.5" wasn't appreciably worse for the shooter IMO than the BattleComp on my 16" MRP. Maybe a little, but at no point was I "Holy shit, this is uncomfortable" When you consider the difference, it should be a bit tamer in similar applications.
My MRP with the BC 2.0 is actually a bit over-comped with some loads, the muzzle will actually dip a touch when fired.
I've got 4k+ rounds through a BC and only 100 or so through the BCM, but my basic impression that I took away was that if you broke it down on a sliding scale, with flash suppression/increased recoil on the left side, and compensation, reduced recoil/ increased concussion, flash signature on the right, the BCM is to the left of the BC. Close, but a noticeable difference.
As always YMMV, and that was my subjective impression from one shooting session. I think they're both awesome muzzle devices, and the BCM is probably the better choice for SBRs.
Thanks eesmith.
jonconsiglio
10-13-12, 08:39
Yes, I am.
Cool. There's a couple threads in the AAR section that mention it.
How short do you have to be to have the muzzle hit the ground?
or rather; how long is that sling ;)
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCMGUNFIGHTER-Compensator-s/165.htm
BravoCompanyUSA
10-15-12, 13:16
Thank you Larry very much for the kind words and the post!
Looking to release the comp in about 2-3 weeks. You may start seeing some feedback on these as there are some out there for T&E.
Larry's post summed it up perfectly. Our goal was to offer a muzzle device for tactical applications. So we set out to balance the mitigation of muzzle rise, flash signature, and side blast.
The BCMGUNFIGHTER Comp is a Bravo/BCM product. It is not a joint venture. The shape of the Mod 1 (and Mod 0) is to allow for suppressors that are designed to mount on the A2Comp to also mount on the BCM.
I can't wait to see Stickman's pics too!!!
Thanks for reading!
Paul
The cat is out of the bag, Boys.
spelingmastir
10-15-12, 13:37
Thanks bcm! What is your perspective on the ban compliance of this new comp?
BravoCompanyUSA
10-15-12, 13:43
Thanks bcm! What is your perspective on the ban compliance of this new comp?
Not sure at this point?
Anyone remember this?
BCM Midlength Carbine Video (http://youtu.be/yU8ryJN9E5s)
Looks like Travis and Pat have been working this thing since day one :-D
BCM Comp!!! (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=301234179943339&set=a.363821323684624.85921.136737106393048&type=3&src=https%3A%2F%2Fsphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-snc7%2F467548_301234179943339_1779868605_o.jpg&smallsrc=https%3A%2F%2Fsphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-snc7%2F429067_301234179943339_1779868605_n.jpg&size=1277%2C850)
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/467548_301234179943339_1779868605_o.jpg
firepolock
10-15-12, 17:53
Not sure at this point?
How do you guys go upon finding out what the ATF calls it? I live in a ban state, but would love to try it out on my postban if possible.
Sent from my LG-P506 using Tapatalk 2
vicious_cb
10-15-12, 18:26
Looks like it uses a regular old crush washer. Does the bottom fully closed? I can't really tell from all the pictures.
Legality of comps in ban states seems to be a gray area in certain instances.
In the past certain comps/breaks have come from the manufacturer with compliance letters from the BATFE. But I've heard that since the sunset of the Federal AWB, Federal agencies like the BATFE no longer do testing on the devices since there's no Federal laws concerning it. Its a state issue only now.
I live in NY and run a BC. I'm hoping with the word "comp" in the product description I'll be alright.
Its pathetic and sad for sure.
justin_247
10-15-12, 18:37
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/467548_301234179943339_1779868605_o.jpg
OK, that looks noticeably shorter than the one in the pics on posted on Lightfighter. This must be the Mod 0, and the ones posted there must be the longer Mod 1 for non-SBR 14.5" setups.
Looks like it uses a regular old crush washer. Does the bottom fully closed? I can't really tell from all the pictures.
Good question.
TangoSauce
10-15-12, 23:35
Looks like it uses a regular old crush washer. Does the bottom fully closed? I can't really tell from all the pictures.
If you run a suppressor then don't use a crush washer. I'll stop there as to attempt to remain on track with the topic at hand.
For people looking for pictures, they are all over Haleys website. He is promoting them pretty heavy, and on different builds.
buckshot1220
10-16-12, 07:36
This may sound a little stupid, but if it can be run through ATF to confirm its not a flash supressor, then a whole slew of market coverage opens up in some ban states.
Everyone keeps saying the A2 compensator is one of the best and I agree.
However I'm also behind the lines where many LEO don't know one from the other so will just arrest and where some departments that do look for such things have a standing policy of 'if you can put the tip of you pinky in it, its a flash hider'
Having some sort of, I guess certification, could go a long way toward easing folks minds enough to purchase.
EG: PWS FSC556
Just a couple cents tossed into the middle of the table with the full understanding that there are bigger issues to be delt with first so it wouldn't be a first day first shipment thing.
Good point,,I'm in the same boat !! I love me BC,,but a less expensive,,equally effective Muzzle Device will be a welcome addition !! :D
Also behind the lines, please get an ATF letter stating it is a Comp like PWS did and we will be all over this.
If there are any issues with this post feel free to pm me and I'll remove mods.
The only issue would be copyright violation, which is why I pointed out where you could find pictures instead of showing them.
The only issue would be copyright violation, which is why I pointed out where you could find pictures instead of showing them.
Well I don't want one of those :-/. Removing.
CLJ94104,
Copyright suits are getting more and more popular, on one of the photography boards I frequent there is a guy who happily states he made more money from his infringement suits last year than he did from his photography itself. This board could be looked at as having deep pockets, and its an easy suit to win from what I understand.
richdkim77
10-17-12, 15:15
On a side note, I think you should go after this guy for stealing your avatar Stick! :p
http://www.okshooters.com/member.php?1202-93-FOX&
Larry Vickers
10-19-12, 23:45
Ok as promised I ran an informal test today with several students after the first day of my Vegas carbine class - the weapons used were a 16 inch M4 with A2 flash hider, a 16 inch M4 with a Battlecomp 1.0 , and a Bravo Company 14.5 with permanently attached BCMGunfighter comp
Ammo used was PMC Bronze
Tests were conducted to determine muzzle flash (at dusk and getting darker by the minute ) , muzzle blast to sides and rear angles, felt recoil mitigation, rapid fire controllability, and dust signature in the prone
Range was dusty, dry, and rocky
The A2 was always shot first to establish a baseline then the Battlecomp and lastly the BCMGunfighter comp
As expected the A2 had the least flash, slightly less dust signature ( down range vs to the sides ), least muzzle blast and provided the least control in the rapid fire test
In every test the BCMGunfighter was equal to or better than the Battlecomp - it had the same dust signature, slightly better flash reduction, dramatically better blast (concussion) than the Battlecomp and was picked as being preferrable in rapid fire due to the different 'feel' of the recoil ( highly subjective - nevertheless there was a consensus on the topic ) - when you factor in it is cheaper by $40 or so then it is a no brainer; every single person involved in the test felt it was superior 'tactical' comp than the Battlecomp and everyone stated if they were in the market to buy a comp they would purchase the Bravo Company over the Battlecomp
Make no mistake if you want a good flash suppressor buy one ; this ain't it - if you want the worlds best comp this ain't it
But it is perhaps the new industry standard in 'hybrid' devices that walk a fine line between the two diametrically opposing requirements - and it has the least muzzle blast by a large margin of any comp I have ever seen
So there you have it from an admitted opponent of muzzle comps in general - if you want one on your carbine, look at the Bravo Company offering first as it is, as far as I can tell, the new standard
Be safe
LAV
CLJ94104,
Copyright suits are getting more and more popular, on one of the photography boards I frequent there is a guy who happily states he made more money from his infringement suits last year than he did from his photography itself. This board could be looked at as having deep pockets, and its an easy suit to win from what I understand.
A little more off topic, but this board probably has immunity from copyright infringement done by its users as long as the board complies with requests by the actual copyright holder to take down specific infringing content.
DMCA safe harbor rules... Which is what YouTube uses to stay afloat.
The above is not to be construed as legal advice.
Back on topic, thanks for the test LAV! It seems like bcm is on a mission to improve every single aspect of the ar system one component at a time, and is succeeding!
Delta_Elite
10-20-12, 07:14
Also behind the lines, please get an ATF letter stating it is a Comp like PWS did and we will be all over this.
Same here
When anyone gets a chance, I'd like to see pictures/videos to showcase the different flash each produce. Or someone can send me one and ill do it lol
Oh one more question, can a HALO mount to it?
Oh one more question, can a HALO mount to it?
Already been answered. YES
Honorthecall81
10-20-12, 21:01
Will this gunfighther comp/flash hider be compatible with surefire cans? Thanks so much for all the info thusfar.
Ok as promised I ran an informal test today with several students after the first day of my Vegas carbine class - the weapons used were a 16 inch M4 with A2 flash hider, a 16 inch M4 with a Battlecomp 1.0 , and a Bravo Company 14.5 with permanently attached BCMGunfighter comp
Ammo used was PMC Bronze
Tests were conducted to determine muzzle flash (at dusk and getting darker by the minute ) , muzzle blast to sides and rear angles, felt recoil mitigation, rapid fire controllability, and dust signature in the prone
Range was dusty, dry, and rocky
The A2 was always shot first to establish a baseline then the Battlecomp and lastly the BCMGunfighter comp
As expected the A2 had the least flash, slightly less dust signature ( down range vs to the sides ), least muzzle blast and provided the least control in the rapid fire test
In every test the BCMGunfighter was equal to or better than the Battlecomp - it had the same dust signature, slightly better flash reduction, dramatically better blast (concussion) than the Battlecomp and was picked as being preferrable in rapid fire due to the different 'feel' of the recoil ( highly subjective - nevertheless there was a consensus on the topic ) - when you factor in it is cheaper by $40 or so then it is a no brainer; every single person involved in the test felt it was superior 'tactical' comp than the Battlecomp and everyone stated if they were in the market to buy a comp they would purchase the Bravo Company over the Battlecomp
Make no mistake if you want a good flash suppressor buy one ; this ain't it - if you want the worlds best comp this ain't it
But it is perhaps the new industry standard in 'hybrid' devices that walk a fine line between the two diametrically opposing requirements - and it has the least muzzle blast by a large margin of any comp I have ever seen
So there you have it from an admitted opponent of muzzle comps in general - if you want one on your carbine, look at the Bravo Company offering first as it is, as far as I can tell, the new standard
Be safe
LAV
Will this gunfighther comp/flash hider be compatible with surefire cans? Thanks so much for all the info thusfar.
I'm not aware of any SF that mount A2 styles... Gemtech Halo is really the only option still in production as far as I know.
Looks like another quality product from BCM, as expected. Thanks for the test LAV!
I was present during the test Larry spoke about and shot all three rifles. I currently own rifles with a Battlecomp 1.0 and a Knights Triple Tap. I ran a PWS FC556 previous to switching to the Battlecomp. I like comps/muzzle devices/recoil management accessories or whatever the hell the current term is for them.
The thing about the new BCM device that stood out to me was the recoil impulse when shooting multiple shots quickly. I am pretty happy with the Battlecomp and going in I had my doubts about the BCM being able to shoot as flat. Let me state that I know recoil impulse and perception is a highly subjective issue. That said the best way I can describe the difference between the BCM and Battlecomp is this.
The Battlecomp feel reminds me of many .38 Super Open pistols I have shot. The gun doesnt really go anywhere so much as it kind of shimmy's around briefly before it settles back down. Coupled with a pretty good whomp/boom sound. The BCM device has a little bit more of a rearward impulse but it is very linear with less of a comp thump sound than the Battlecomp. It pushes straight back shot after shot instead of kind of wobbling around.
My main focus in these types of devices is getting the benefit of a comp without the blast being completely obnoxious. As I said going in I was doubtful about liking the BCM simply because I liked the Battlecomp so much in this respect. After the shooting was done I am convinced the BCM device will work better for me. I really liked the way the rifle tracks straight back to the rear briefly instead of the blast/wobble (I cant come up with any other way to describe it) of the Battlecomp. Do I like it enough to take the Battlecomp off when the BCM is available? Yes.
The Triple Tap I like better than both simply because to me it is pretty much dead flat without the wobble of the Battlecomp. That said the question then becomes would I spend the ridiculous amount of money that will be the difference between the BCM and the Triple Tap were I building a new rifle? No I wouldn't. I would buy the BCM and a case of ammo.
Flash and dust signature really do not factor into what I use a rifle for but the BCM handles those two things very well if they mean something in your world. Overall I think BCM made a great product. I will be buying one when they are available. Below are some photos I took during the test.
Left side view of the BCM device:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8192/8107671393_e2bc10884d_b.jpg
Top view
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8195/8107671461_4e1849f84e_b.jpg
Larry watching the class host run the BCM device equipped rifle
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8047/8107671317_408b06c4a3_b.jpg[
That looks like it could be pretty easy to get an obstruction stuck in there. Mud/snow/ a small twig when going through brush... Instead of falling out the end like an a2 it would be traped by the comp-cone
S. Galbraith
10-21-12, 08:01
Good to hear that BCM has made a product as good or better than the Battlecomp. The price tag is definately attractive too.
jonconsiglio
10-21-12, 08:56
That looks like it could be pretty easy to get an obstruction stuck in there. Mud/snow/ a small twig when going through brush... Instead of falling out the end like an a2 it would be traped by the comp-cone
I can't see anything really being able to get inside the comp that won't get blown out from the blast. I've had two BattleComp and two Triple Taps that I used in wooded environments that never had an issue. I wouldn't worry about it here.
The erosion on the leading edge if that baffle/cone looks very similar to the blast erosion seen on the blast baffles of silencers and my AAC Brakeout. How many rounds have been put through the new BCM Comp to determine an estimated lifespan of the device before it either loses some effectiveness or leads to accuracy or safety concerns???
Interesting looking...
Hey Bravo! Send me a pallet of these things for testing! :D
Great looking system. Sounds like it works well too. Great job BCM!
Heavy Metal
10-21-12, 12:27
The erosion on the leading edge if that baffle/cone looks very similar to the blast erosion seen on the blast baffles of silencers and my AAC Brakeout. How many rounds have been put through the new BCM Comp to determine an estimated lifespan of the device before it either loses some effectiveness or leads to accuracy or safety concerns???
You sure thats erosion and not powder fouling?
You sure thats erosion and not powder fouling?
Could possibly be powder? I was just pointing out that it looks like the blast erosion I have witnessed on other products which have a front row seat to muzzle blast. That blast is very hard on muzzle devices which is why the better silencer manufactures use Iconel blast baffles. I'm sure BCM has done their homework so I was just curious what round counts they put in these in testing to see what if any erosion that have seen.
Heavy Metal
10-21-12, 12:54
I assume it is still just a prototype at this stage as well.
Is this a 2 piece device?
JCIN thank you for your report and pictures, especially the side by side with the battle comp of which i am a big fan of.
I'm a sucker for new muzzle devices, so as soon as they are available i'll get one ordered. Does anyone know the exact release date or is it still november-ish?
I participated in the Larry Vickers 3 day carbine class, as Larry posted previously, some of us students were lucky enough to test the BCM comp alongside a Battle Comp and a standard A2. 5 of us all shot each gun with its respective muzzle device in the same scenarios described in Larry's post and all came up with the same conclusion on the BCM comp= 2 thumbs way up!
I was a fan of Battle Comps, liked the way they really helped with recoil on the larger calibers like my .308 LMT MWS, especially since I'm 5'5 and about 100 lbs.
However I did not like the "flame thrower"
flash signature nor the concussion blast of them at all (nor did any fellow shooters that were on my left or right :D)
When I first saw the BCM, I was interested in the design and thought it looked like a hybrid between a comp and a flash hider. It indeed bridged the gap in between the benefits of a hider and a comp.
The flash hiding ability, concussion blast were significantly better, dust signature was equal and recoil mitigation was a bit better than the Battle Comp--more of a slight backward/linear push rather than a teeter/wobble, ( and I am very sensitive to that as per my size).
It is also much more training class/group shooting friendly, as the concussion blast/noise is so much less---likened by me as "a slap on cheek versus a flying round house kick in steel toed boots":p
PLUS its at a much lower price---I love this new Bravo Company comp and can't wait to buy one.
You can't go wrong with this comp!
Competition is a good thing because, besides giving us more choices, a lot of times it can give us an improved product and at a better price . These next four sentences by LAV really sums it up good.
Make no mistake if you want a good flash suppressor buy one ; this ain't it - if you want the worlds best comp this ain't it
But it is perhaps the new industry standard in 'hybrid' devices that walk a fine line between the two diametrically opposing requirements - and it has the least muzzle blast by a large margin of any comp I have ever seen
So there you have it from an admitted opponent of muzzle comps in general - if you want one on your carbine, look at the Bravo Company offering first as it is, as far as I can tell, the new standard
Be safe
LAV
Can these be pinned and welded to bring a 14.5" barrel to legal length? Or will an extended one be made available later?
Thanks
LRB45,
Yes. BCM already has them listed an an option on some of their 14.5 barreled uppers.
I just got two of the 1.5's. The machining is fantastic and honestly, I have never seen anything like them.
C4
PalmettoPrecision
10-22-12, 13:16
I just got two of the 1.5's. The machining is fantastic and honestly, I have never seen anything like them.
C4
Have to admit, I've never heard Grant say that.
Ok as promised I ran an informal test today with several students after the first day of my Vegas carbine class - the weapons used were a 16 inch M4 with A2 flash hider, a 16 inch M4 with a Battlecomp 1.0 , and a Bravo Company 14.5 with permanently attached BCMGunfighter comp
Ammo used was PMC Bronze
Tests were conducted to determine muzzle flash (at dusk and getting darker by the minute ) , muzzle blast to sides and rear angles, felt recoil mitigation, rapid fire controllability, and dust signature in the prone
Range was dusty, dry, and rocky
The A2 was always shot first to establish a baseline then the Battlecomp and lastly the BCMGunfighter comp
As expected the A2 had the least flash, slightly less dust signature ( down range vs to the sides ), least muzzle blast and provided the least control in the rapid fire test
In every test the BCMGunfighter was equal to or better than the Battlecomp - it had the same dust signature, slightly better flash reduction, dramatically better blast (concussion) than the Battlecomp and was picked as being preferrable in rapid fire due to the different 'feel' of the recoil ( highly subjective - nevertheless there was a consensus on the topic ) - when you factor in it is cheaper by $40 or so then it is a no brainer; every single person involved in the test felt it was superior 'tactical' comp than the Battlecomp and everyone stated if they were in the market to buy a comp they would purchase the Bravo Company over the Battlecomp
Make no mistake if you want a good flash suppressor buy one ; this ain't it - if you want the worlds best comp this ain't it
But it is perhaps the new industry standard in 'hybrid' devices that walk a fine line between the two diametrically opposing requirements - and it has the least muzzle blast by a large margin of any comp I have ever seen
So there you have it from an admitted opponent of muzzle comps in general - if you want one on your carbine, look at the Bravo Company offering first as it is, as far as I can tell, the new standard
Be safe
LAV
I was fortunate to be able to also participate in this test. In addition to using A2s and BCs, I've got a TTT on another stick. I found the BCM device to provide the best effect as a comp. The impulse was smoother and more consistent than the BC/TTT. The reduced concussion and flash are excellent bonuses. While it's probably difficult to nearly impossible to make a "jack-of-all-trade" muzzle device, the BCM offering is the closest of any out there.
I'm eagerly awaiting their availability so I can put one on a new build.
Larry Vickers
10-23-12, 17:56
Yes they can be pinned and in fact they come pre drilled with a pin in the bag
I really liked the way the rifle tracks straight back to the rear briefly instead of the blast/wobble (I cant come up with any other way to describe it) of the Battlecomp. Do I like it enough to take the Battlecomp off when the BCM is available? Yes.
The Battlecomp appears to push the muzzle downwards (and off target) so it is my thought that the BCM trades that downward thrust for other functionality which is what I was hoping. (it means it shoots flat.)
I think that the BCM may very well end up on the end of one of my rifles soon enough from the sound of it.
Has anyone fired this comp in full auto?
I tried a Battlecomp and it pushed the muzzle down which was an odd feeling.
Has anyone fired this comp in full auto?
I tried a Battlecomp and it pushed the muzzle down which was an odd feeling.
If I could get my pallet of these things from Bravo, I'd get that done.
But my front porch sits empty every day. :(
vicious_cb
10-24-12, 08:06
Has anyone fired this comp in full auto?
I tried a Battlecomp and it pushed the muzzle down which was an odd feeling.
Never shot it on full auto but that seems to be the biggest complaint of the battlecomp.
I wonder how the new Bravo Comp would compare to the PWS FSC556. I've been following this and am getting close to swapping my PWS for the Bravo Comp
We will be doing subjective comparison testing between the BCM comp and a variety of others. Will post results.
I hear Apex Tactical is also working on a prototype compensator for the AR15 an AR10 type rifles. We will probably also see more new ones coming out at SHOT. Just remember, before you permanently install any muzzle device to your barrel , nothing is so good it cannot be made better, and there will always be something new coming out that may have better performance in certain areas and at a better price point.
I hear Apex Tactical is also working on a prototype compensator for the AR15 an AR10 type rifles. We will probably also see more new ones coming out at SHOT. Just remember, before you permanently install any muzzle device to your barrel , nothing is so good it cannot be made better, and there will always be something new coming out that may have better performance in certain areas and at a better price point.
Exactly why I can never bring myself to purchase a 14.5" barrel.
-Jax
bullittmcqueen
10-24-12, 12:14
Exactly why I can never bring myself to purchase a 14.5" barrel.
-Jax
Beat me to it. The technology and parts for these rifles evolve so quickly, it's hard to tie yourself to one part permanently when it's likely a "better" one will be out next year (better being used lightly)
Even a "permanently attached" muzzle device can be removed using the correct tools. Sure it takes a little effort but that shouldn't shop you from getting a 14.5" if that's what you want. I love my 14.5 but will wait for everyone else to say this is leaps ahead of my BC 1.5" before breaking out the drill and torches.
Sent from my HTC EVO 4G using Tapatalk.
I definitely want one of these. Love how it looks like an A2 flash hider. :)
I'm looking for to seeing the results of everyone's testing, at the very least seeking to advance current technology is never a bad thing
Exactly why I can never bring myself to purchase a 14.5" barrel.
-Jax
I used to think the same way and decided to give the 14.5" Middy a try. Prior to pinning, I ran it for a few thousand rounds on the SBR lower and I actually found that I kind of like the 14.5 for a non-nfa length rifle.
Granted it's only 1.5+ inches shorter than your standard 16" but, still like it for what it is.
My next rifle will be a 14.5" LW BCM and I'm trying to hold out for their comp to be released but, will order the upper with an A2 either way. Will go the same route and run it on my SBR to make sure everything functions correctly but, I have no doubts that it will perform on par with all their other offerings.
Im taking a low light class first week of November....would love to get some video comparing these with the other comps. Hoping their available sooner than later.
I wonder how the new Bravo Comp would compare to the PWS FSC556. I've been following this and am getting close to swapping my PWS for the Bravo Comp
The PWS is a good comp. In my experience, the concussion is significant, even more so than a Battle Comp. The BCM has noticeably less concussion than the BC, and therefore (in my opinion) an even greater difference in concussion than a PWS comp. The impulse from the BCM is really nice and consistent. It's difficult to describe, but it is better than out of a BC. We didn't have a PWS handy during our testing with Larry, so I can't directly compare the two.
My guess is that you'd be pleased with the BCM. And those shooting around you. ;)
Where are they?? Its November already... Haha..
I have a brand new 14.5" bcm standard upper, just waiting for completion.. I have money in the bank, i check the sight daily on the phone so i can place the order asap.. I just want this one done, so i can go shoot..
Going bananas
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c25/Dirknar77/IMG_20121105_131340.jpg
I heard that BRAVO shipped the first batch of units to the victims of Tropical Storm SANDY.
Ha, I'm sure they are really stressing about their muzzle devices right now..
:o
Shot these on 14.5 and 16 barrels last night with XM193, m855, Aguila 55 gr and some other stuff. Was very impressed with its abilities as a comp and it offered acceptable flash as well. I didn't notice and unbearable concussion and would say they've brought home a winner with this one.
Shot these on 14.5 and 16 barrels last night with XM193, m855, Aguila 55 gr and some other stuff. Was very impressed with its abilities as a comp and it offered acceptable flash as well. I didn't notice and unbearable concussion and would say they've brought home a winner with this one.
Have you used a Battlecomp before? If so, how would you compare the BCM comp to it? I'm looking to buy one or the other and the BCM is less money. If the BCM works as well or better, saving money would be great.
Have you used a Battlecomp before? If so, how would you compare the BCM comp to it? I'm looking to buy one or the other and the BCM is less money. If the BCM works as well or better, saving money would be great.
Have you read through all of the pages here? Just about everyone so far has agreed that the BCM is a better compromise than the BC.
Assuming the BCM comp is better than the BC, how does it stack up to the Z-comp?
Waiting for Markm and IG to give us their highly regarded opinions.
Mark
I haven't had any experience with the Z Comp however I can attest to the superior results/comparisons of the Bravo Company comp to the BC comps.
It wont take very much convincing that the BCM comp is better after people get to compare one side by side....the products do the talking..... I had to do my own testing to form my own opinion and I was thrilled at what I experienced with the BCM comp.
Not to say that BC doesn't make a solid comp and they do, but if you are looking for a great innovative comp with less concussion blast and much less flash signature than Bravo Co comps are the way to go.
Plus at a much more affordable price with no compromise in quality coming from a solid stand up company like Bravo how can you go wrong?:)
I believe that Larry Vickers and a few notable others have contributed their highly valuable opinions about this new comp too...:D
Assuming the BCM comp is better than the BC, how does it stack up to the Z-comp?
Waiting for Markm and IG to give us their highly regarded opinions.
Mark
As soon as I get a Bravo Comp I want to do a comparison of them. I have a Z-Comp as well as a Battle Comp. I was pretty impressed with the Z-Comp to be honest.
Assuming the BCM comp is better than the BC, how does it stack up to the Z-comp?
Waiting for Markm and IG to give us their highly regarded opinions.
Mark
Assuming the BCM comp is better than the BC, how does it stack up to the Z-comp?
Waiting for Markm and IG to give us their highly regarded opinions.
Mark
If we can get Gunz out for a shoot, we could really run all three devices on the same day.
I believe that Larry Vickers and a few notable others have contributed their highly valuable opinions about this new comp too...:D
Absolutely!! Did not mean to imply that the opinions of LAV, Robb Jensen, Grant and countless others are not valuable. I welcome all input from objective forum posters. Only reason i mentioned specific individuals because they commented about their experience with the Z-comp, no disrespect intended.
MP
Yeah.. for sure... they've had time on the BCM... Not on the Zcomp though.
I really don't see any Monumental results. All of the devices are top notch... and unless the Zcomp was a flash monster (which it isn't), I'd be more excited about the BCM... which I'm sure is very good too.
A buddy borrowed mine and shot some video, once BCM gives the go ahead for pics and video I'm sure he will drop it in this thread.
once BCM gives the go ahead
Go aheads??? Ha Ha...
We don't need no stinking go aheads!
Go aheads??? Ha Ha...
We don't need no stinking go aheads!
I wait. A man is nothing if he can't be trusted to keep his word.
I have not inquired about getting either of them, but I would like to get my hands on both the BCM and Z comp. There is no doubt that I am a fan of the BC but would love to see a product out perform it, especially at a lower price point. I will gladly do a side by side of all 3. :)
I wait. A man is nothing if he can't be trusted to keep his word.Amen.
This was posted on 10/23. Mods, please remove if not allowed.
http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?4306-BCMGUNFIGHTER-Compensator-MOD-0-1-Coming-in-November-2012
BCMGUNFIGHTER Compensator MOD 0/1 - Coming in November 2012
http://i1268.photobucket.com/albums/jj565/browcs/Suppressors%20and%20Muzzle%20Devices/BCMGUNFIGHTERCompensator_zps0934a551.jpg
- Photograph courtesy of Tim Lau/Facebook Page
Bravo Company Manufacturing, Inc. (BCM) previously posted on their website the "announcement" of two new compensators developed by them for use on 5.56mm AR15 platforms. Those compensators are the BCMGUNFIGHTER Compensator MOD 0 and MOD 1. Their features include:
1. designed with tuned slots and an interior cone to reduce muzzle rise, flash signature, noise, and lateral pressure,
2. designed with exterior dimensions allowing for the mounting of blank firing adapters or flash hider-mounted suppressors,
3. stainless steel construction for maximum corrosion resistance (with an apparent black finish over the stainless steel), and
4. 1/2 x 28 thread.
The differences between the MOD 0 and MOD 1 is in its length: the MOD 1 is a longer version of the MOD 0 with a pre-drilled hole at the base for permanent installation on 14.5 inch barreled ARs, thus bringing the barrel length up to over 16 inches.
BCM stated on their website the design features makes this compensator "perfect for working in teams for CQB."
Both compensators will be available for sale on their site in November (2012). The MOD 0, here, will sell for $89.95 and the MOD 1, here, for $94.95.
Go get some!
That thing is cool looking, Boys.
Glad to see the damned site back up. :rolleyes:
Robb Jensen
11-10-12, 11:15
I have a lot of rounds (thousands) through BattleComp 1.0 and 2.0s, I have in excess of 500 rounds through the Z-Comp and 300 through the BCM.
BattleComp = a bit louder than an A2 comp, very little muzzle lift, minimized rearward recoil. Not as much concussion as a true "brake". Concussion is increased if firing up against a barricade but also less than a true "brake". With some ammo you'll get a spontaneous huge flash after firing a few rounds.
Z-comp = A bit louder than a Battlecomp with more concussion and with less felt reward recoil virtually nil muzzle lift. Small muzzle flash can be seen through its sides. Still not as loud nor concussion as say a SJC Titan brake. About 15% less felt recoil than a BattleComp. Approaches the effectiveness of a JP Bennie Cooley brake and Surefire Muzzle Brake but with a little less muzzle flash.
BCM Gunfighter = A tiny bit louder than an A2 Comp but quieter than a BattleComp. Concussion is just barely more than an A2 comp. No perceivable muzzle flash. Shooting around barricades doesn't increase concussion. About 10% more felt recoil than a BattleComp but about 10-15% less than an A2 comp pretty much felt recoil is right in between the two. Muzzle lift is identical to a BattleComp.
As with all comps, overall carbine weight, barrel weight (muzzle front barrel heavy or middle-back barrel heavy), bolt carrier weight, length of gas system, power level of ammunition, buffer weight and spring rate all effect how well each works. Ammo used = XM193, PMC Bronze .223 & X-TAC 5.56, Hornady .223 75gr Steel Match, Lake City M855, BH MK262 Mod 1 5.56mm, American Eagle/FED 55gr .223, Winchester Ranger 64gr 5.56mm Bonded Base, BH 5.56 50gr TSX.
Robb's observations closely follow our own under similar conditions. Lots of great choices out there for every type of intended useage and budget. So far BCM is the favorite of the shooters used for the testing but are still waiting for a Z-Comp to add to the testing schedule.
Interesting results Robb.
I may have the Z-Comp covered now, just need a line on the BCM....
Bueller? :D
Seems like there's a sliding scale tradeoff between compensating effect and concussion, where you increase one and the other gets worse. Which makes sense. And it seems like the scale goes a2, bcm, bc, zcomp, surefire mb.
Robb Jensen
11-10-12, 20:54
Seems like there's a sliding scale tradeoff between compensating effect and concussion, where you increase one and the other gets worse. Which makes sense. And it seems like the scale goes a2, bcm, bc, zcomp, surefire mb.
I find this to be true.
For me I can mitigate reward recoil easier than muzzle lift. This is why to me the best comp/brake which has the least amount of muzzle lift is best for me. Same reason I like the AAC Brakeout over the AAC Blackout brake. I also prefer the quieter comps on defensive & training guns. Now I just need some BCM Gunfighters that'll accept my Surefire 5.56 Mini & AAC 5.56 Mini4.;)
There are lots of people who'll criticize comps/brakes saying 5.56mm ARs don't recoil, these are the same people who don't time their drills using a shot timer. The timer doesn't lie.
I had been waiting nearly a year, since the announcement of these to get one and try it out but in the end I just got another Battlecomp and dropped it off today, with a new BCM LW barrel to be pinned and welded.
This was posted on 10/23. Mods, please remove if not allowed.
http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?4306-BCMGUNFIGHTER-Compensator-MOD-0-1-Coming-in-November-2012
So can you use a large Torx head to install it? :D
I had been waiting nearly a year, since the announcement of these to get one and try it out but in the end I just got another Battlecomp and dropped it off today, with a new BCM LW barrel to be pinned and welded.
The thought has been creeping in the back of my mind to just buy a BC or Griffin M4SD instead of waiting. I guess all of the panic buying have-to-have-it-right-now craze may be infecting my mental processes.
So can you use a large Torx head to install it? :D
The thought has been creeping in the back of my mind to just buy a BC or Griffin M4SD instead of waiting. I guess all of the panic buying have-to-have-it-right-now craze may be infecting my mental processes.
We now have three rifles, all with Battlecomps. Bravo Company sells them too, I ordered this most recent BC 1.5 from them with my lightweight barrel, and a gas block to go with it. Bravo may not have been able to sell me one of these most recent comps but they sure sold me everything else.
I just got two of the 1.5's. The machining is fantastic and honestly, I have never seen anything like them.
C4Now I am VERY curious about the machining; Is it one solid piece or is it multiple pieces thats welded togather? Is there anything else you can say about part, steel, or tooling(manf. proccess is as interesting and important to me as product preformance). If one piece design, I bet its a be-iotch to tool even with CNC....I'm going to need a couple (and schematics :D) to examine.
Animal_Mother556
11-11-12, 11:32
I was privileged to be able to send a few rounds through one this morning (1.5 version). I probably fired a total of 30 rounds.
I will immediately say that the blast is not as bad as a BC, and is not too darn much worse than an A2 (this was side-by-side comparing on my part...standing directly next to the muzzle approximately 3 yards away).
I was told that it is a two-piece design, but you can BARELY tell where they come together...it IS machined beautifully.
As far as muzzle control, it really didn't seem to do much with muzzle "flip" or "rise". I have fired the same rifle with a BC, and I prefer the BC. But, as stated, it has less blast.
As this was a daytime shoot, I cannot comment on flash. It was cloudy, and you COULD see some flash, but it was totally contained inside the device.
I was privileged to be able to send a few rounds through one this morning (1.5 version). I probably fired a total of 30 rounds.
I will immediately say that the blast is not as bad as a BC, and is not too darn much worse than an A2 (this was side-by-side comparing on my part...standing directly next to the muzzle approximately 3 yards away).
I was told that it is a two-piece design, but you can BARELY tell where they come together...it IS machined beautifully.
As far as muzzle control, it really didn't seem to do much with muzzle "flip" or "rise". I have fired the same rifle with a BC, and I prefer the BC. But, as stated, it has less blast.
As this was a daytime shoot, I cannot comment on flash. It was cloudy, and you COULD see some flash, but it was totally contained inside the device.
So wait, you're saying it doesn't help at all with muzzle control? That's kinda the point of a comp........... Now I'm worried :confused:
Animal_Mother556
11-12-12, 09:32
Like I stated, I only fired about 30 rounds through it.
It did seem to control a little more flip than the A2...but just not as much as a BC (or as much as I was hoping it would).
This was just my initial impression, too, guys. I would have loved to have been able to run it a lot more.
With less blast than a BC and a bit more muzzle control than an A2, I do think it is a great product that is noticeably made to a high quality.
Are we still looking at a November release on these?
In a perfect world, I would be happy with the A2 flash hider.
However, for those of us behind enemy lines (CA, NJ, NY, CT, MA) where state AWB's are in effect, thereby making A2's on threaded barrels illegal in most circumstances, this news is most welcome.
We had the pleasure of having LAV up here to teach a carbine class, with most of the students using permanently attached muzzle brakes.
Larry remarked to me to they were giving him a headache after a few hours on the line!
Most muzzle brakes are dragon's breath at night, I am anxious to see how well the BCM comp works in that regard.
Will this suffice in CT? I despise my current brake.
Orange-Fox
11-16-12, 07:17
Any chance for a Surefire SOCOM556-RC compatible version?
firepolock
11-17-12, 07:29
Will this suffice in CT? I despise my current brake.
Since i cant PM you for some reason. CT SFLU, has receny stated that, if its sold/marketed as a comp/brake, then thats what it is.
Sent from my LG-P506 using Tapatalk 2
I was told that it is a two-piece design, but you can BARELY tell where they come together...it IS machined beautifully.
Thanks for the clarification on the two piece design. I was about to have an aneurysm trying to figure out how they could manufactuer it as a one piece.
Since i cant PM you for some reason. CT SFLU, has receny stated that, if its sold/marketed as a comp/brake, then thats what it is.
Sent from my LG-P506 using Tapatalk 2
Thanks. Now only if they were in stock.
MIDGAPATRIOT
11-17-12, 17:50
Thanks. Now only if they were in stock.
Yep. I want to try one.
Still hoping for info on a release date. :confused:
eleventhcommandment
11-21-12, 02:40
http://modernserviceweapons.com/?p=1047#comment-401
http://modernserviceweapons.com/?p=1047#comment-401
Yeah, I think I'll just keep my "free" A2's.
eleventhcommandment
11-21-12, 11:29
Yeah, I think I'll just keep my "free" A2's.
Along as you are running what you honestly feel is best for you...that's all that matters.
Yeah, I think I'll just keep my "free" A2's.
Agreed
sinlessorrow
11-22-12, 18:15
Yeah, I think I'll just keep my "free" A2's.
Yeah, while it may reduce muzzle rise it still has far greater flash than the A2. If I wanted a comp I would completely get the BCM though given its price.
http://modernserviceweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/compare2-1024x398.jpg
Yeah, while it may reduce muzzle rise it still has far greater flash than the A2.
http://modernserviceweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/compare2-1024x398.jpg
The A2 will beat any MB's in regards to Flash Suppression. So no one buys a MB's for this feature. To me, MB's are all about shooting faster and if that isn't something that interests you, then no MB will be of any use to you.
C4
Anyone have some intel on when these will actually be available?
eleventhcommandment
11-27-12, 00:04
Yes Comps assist in "faster shooting" by REDUCING MUZZLE RISE. if you run a comp (MB) it should probably REDUCE MUZZLE RISE really really well to make it worth while. While Wikipedia correctly states that the ability to REDUCE MUZZLE RISE is the primary function, the true benefit for CURRENT competition or, much more importantly, deployed combat shooters is "balance" between REDUCING MUZZLE RISE, flash signature AND the ability to leave the eardrum of the person next to you inside his own head. Find the balance that works best for you (and those that may be around you) and you'll have the right product...as long as it's based on an honest, agenda free test/comparison that is.
What so many folks forget about with regards to comps is that there's more than one way to skin a cat. My 16" gun is mid-gassed with an H2 buffer. It runs 100% (just over 1K rounds). The point is, there's virtually no muzzle rise because of the way the gas and buffer are setup. I have a lightweight barrel. A gov't profile would keep the gun even flatter.
So, by tuning the gas system and buffer, you can mitigate the need for a comp.
So, by tuning the gas system and buffer, you can mitigate the need for a comp.
You'll change your tune if at Light Weight/Pencil version comes out! :p
So, by tuning the gas system and buffer, you can mitigate the need for a comp.
While I'd bet money on a good brand 16" mid with an H2 running forever with any ammo the muzzle device will not mess with reliability like tweaking gas, springs, carriers, and buffers.
People have spent an awful lot of money to decrease he reliability of their gun.
You'll change your tune if at Light Weight/Pencil version comes out! :p
Absolutelyfriggin right!
While I'd bet money on a good brand 16" mid with an H2 running forever with any ammo the muzzle device will not mess with reliability like tweaking gas, springs, carriers, and buffers.
People have spent an awful lot of money to decrease he reliability of their gun.
That's true, and at the same time, people have spent an awful lot of money on the latest whiz-bang muzzle device only to switch back to an A2.
I just find it incredibly ironic that the benchmark against which both flashhiders and muzzle breaks are measured is the lowly $5 A2. That might be called, "a clue."
That's true, and at the same time, people have spent an awful lot of money on the latest whiz-bang muzzle device only to switch back to an A2.
I just find it incredibly ironic that the benchmark against which both flashhiders and muzzle breaks are measured is the lowly $5 A2. That might be called, "a clue."
They are really only compared to the A2 in regards to muzzle flash and side blast. So you usually take a hit on those things and then pay $100-$150 for a little less muzzle rise. I think the A5 system could be a better investment for around $90 but that's just me.
I just find it incredibly ironic that the benchmark against which both flashhiders and muzzle breaks are measured is the lowly $5 A2. That might be called, "a clue."
That's funny and true all at the same time!! Borrowed for sig line!
I just find it incredibly ironic that the benchmark against which both flashhiders and muzzle breaks are measured is the lowly $5 A2. That might be called, "a clue."
It's price isn't a function of it's.... uh... Function...
more of it's ubiquity.
It's price isn't a function of it's.... uh... Function...
more of it's ubiquity.
True, and yet, the KAC NT4 should be common enough due to the Block II program, yet they still sell for $90 and are not included "free" with any factory guns.
In my opinion, the A2 is a lot like the Stoner gas system design. It's just a flat winner. People keep trying to improve it only to realize that it's pretty much great as-is.
Everyone compares muzzle devices to the A2 because most AR15's come with an A2. Most AR15's come with an A2 because they're inexpensive and standard to the design, not because the A2 couldn't use improvement. The comparisons show what differences most users will get if they buy the product.
A more accurate metaphor would be the $1 A2 grip, not the direct impingement system.
Edit: As far as the BCM comp, I think it's a bit silly to dismiss the component because it's a compensator. If I gave you a M&P15-22, you'll be able to control the weapon easier and put more rounds on target more quickly. Why wouldn't I want to decrease my split times? If I can get similar flash hiding and concussion while making the rifle more controllable, I'm all over it. It's a bit like the "go to the gym" comments whenever someone mentions a lightweight component.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.