View Full Version : What's up with these open prong mounts?
First AAC with the Blackping and now Surefire did it too.
Here's the deal, I don't want to run the suppressor all the time, and when I don't run the suppressor, I want a decent muzzle device that:
1) Suppresses flash
2) Doesn't have excessive blast and noise
Honestly, a silencer mount build behind an A2 would make me happy. Barring that, the Surefire 212A was the best thing going, but now they've discontinued it and their newer suppressors "don't work" with it.
I have a MK18 and I like it. I just want to screw something on the end to make it a little quieter for in the house/car. But I also want it to be a good-working muzzle device for the 75% of the time I'm shooting the gun in a class or at the range.
What gives? What suppressor do you buy now, a YHM?:suicide2:
Both designs are good at #1 and #2. What else are you looking for?
AAC used to run a birdcage mount too. Iraqgunz has one. I'd love to have a few of those.
Silencer companies are run by idiots. It's just THAT SIMPLE.
everyusernametaken
10-11-12, 12:32
I just want to screw something on the end to make it a little quieter for in the house/car.
Do you plan on doing a lot of shooting in a car? :p
I feel the same way about mounts - I just want an A2, and not some obnoxiously concussive thing.
Redbeardsong
10-11-12, 12:32
I don't get it. What's the problem?
DreadPirateMoyer
10-11-12, 12:41
They make an annoying pinging noise (my AACs do) and they can unfurl, though I've never seen the latter in person.
Some people hate the ping, but there are good reasons they are going to open prongs.
If you look around you can find pics of the erosion or how the whole end of a closed flash hider will flare out under hard use.
Both designs are good at #1 and #2. What else are you looking for?
I'm looking for a decent sound signature when not using the silencer, ie, no ping.
I shot a Vickers class next to a buddy with an SPR/M4 mount on his gun. That was annoying as crap.
Do you plan on doing a lot of shooting in a car? :p
Hopefully no:fie:
But I'll tell you this, after watching the LA riot videos, if anything like that starts around here, I'll have my SBR riding to work with me in the front seat. The goal will be to break contact and get away, but it may take a couple shots to do that and I'd rather not blow out my eardrums.
AAC used to run a birdcage mount too. Iraqgunz has one. I'd love to have a few of those.
Silencer companies are run by idiots. It's just THAT SIMPLE.
I think Silencer companies are run by people who don't shoot. The theorize about everything and then test it under their theorized conditions, but they only meet 1 criteria and forget all the rest.
They can't imagine why anyone would ever shoot without a 1lb brick hanging off the end of their muzzle. I mean, after all, suppressors offer so many benefits. The reality is there are drawbacks as well.
So AAC set out to design the best flashhider. They redesigned the Phantom a little and said it was the best thing since sliced bread. Then, something else came along and they designed the Blackout. "NO Flash, Best Flashhider ever."
Yeah, you're right, but it sounds like a damn tuning fork.
"Who cares, the sound of the weapon going off is way louder."
I care because it's annoying, and despite the sound of the weapon, I CAN STILL HEAR THE PING.
"Well, just shoot it a bunch and the carbon buildup will make it go away."
Oh yeah, that's right, lemme go out and blow 500-1000 rounds through a WEARABLE item that's federally regulated by a $200 stamp just so I can make it work like it should have in the first place.
Unfriggenbeliveable.
So, what I want is a silencer that uses a closed end flashhider as a mount, but that doesn't reflex over the barrel so I can use it on my mK18.
Source?
I care because it's annoying, and despite the sound of the weapon, I CAN STILL HEAR THE PING.
"Well, just shoot it a bunch and the carbon buildup will make it go away."
Oh yeah, that's right, lemme go out and blow 500-1000 rounds through a WEARABLE item that's federally regulated by a $200 stamp just so I can make it work like it should have in the first place.
SilencerCo(I think) has stated that the ping can be eliminated by staggering the length of the prongs. So, if it's bothering you, break out the file, and remedy the situation.
So, what I want is a silencer that uses a closed end flashhider as a mount, but that doesn't reflex over the barrel so I can use it on my mK18.
Source?
Knight's Arm Co NT4 suppressor with M4QD mount.
I personally don't think the surefire open prong devices ping as bad as AAC's. Their also excellent at flash suppression.
Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2
SilencerCo(I think) has stated that the ping can be eliminated by staggering the length of the prongs. So, if it's bothering you, break out the file, and remedy the situation.
Knight's Arm Co NT4 suppressor with M4QD mount.
You're right about the KAC can. Unfortunately it's the heaviest and most expensive. Still...
I think if I were going to spend that kind of money, I'd just buy the AAC mini4, and then pay someone to cut the prongs off a Blackout and weld a Phantom or A2 on instead. It'd probably be cheaper and I'd have what I really want.
Or, if someone had a closeout deal on an old stock Surefire with the 212A flashhider.
The designs are not going to open prong just to bother people who dislike the ring. Run hard, like in some military tests the closed flash hiders fail.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_20/332161__ARCHIVED_THREAD____Is_it_a_suppressor__or_a_chem_stick___.html&page=1#i2985702
http://www.silencertests.com/albums/Surefire/IMG_8011e.jpg
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=60727&start=175
Slight thread derail...Todd, is Noveske going to be offering the new surefire mounts as an option on uppers and rifles?
ETA: just got an email from Joel at Noveske and the answer is yes.
The biggest Tactical gun store in Bogart GA had both FDE & Black Surefire cans & a stack of both their 212 & 215 adaptors as of a week ago. Cans were under $1000. They are not far from you at all.
I have the 212 & Mini as well as the open prong flash hider. The ping on the SF FH is NOWHERE near what the AAC is. At my carbine match, I can hear an AAC pinging from the next bay if someone is shooting. I have yet to have anyone complain about mine pinging & if it does, I don't notice it. FWIW, I have began to move to a SF brake on my 10" SCAR that the MINI rides on. I did it as the brake setup was slightly more accurate & to save wear on the can. I hardly ever shoot this particular tifle unsuppressed.
NoveskeFan
10-12-12, 06:18
It's pricey, but I think Battlecomp is still offering the service where they weld one of their comps to your privately owned suppressor mount. So you could have something like an AAC 51T mount with a Battlecomp instead of the open prongs, etc.
hotrodder636
10-12-12, 06:46
I'm looking for a decent sound signature when not using the silencer, ie, no ping.
I shot a Vickers class next to a buddy with an SPR/M4 mount on his gun. That was annoying as crap.
Have you looked into the SilencerCo mount? I don't know what cans it will work with but they changed the length of the prongs to get rid of the harmonics that make the "ping".
Ming_the_Merciless
10-12-12, 09:58
First AAC with the Blackping and now Surefire did it too.
Here's the deal, I don't want to run the suppressor all the time, and when I don't run the suppressor, I want a decent muzzle device that:
1) Suppresses flash
2) Doesn't have excessive blast and noise
Honestly, a silencer mount build behind an A2 would make me happy. Barring that, the Surefire 212A was the best thing going, but now they've discontinued it and their newer suppressors "don't work" with it.
I have a MK18 and I like it. I just want to screw something on the end to make it a little quieter for in the house/car. But I also want it to be a good-working muzzle device for the 75% of the time I'm shooting the gun in a class or at the range.
What gives? What suppressor do you buy now, a YHM?:suicide2:
If you are absolutely set on using a birdcage, SWR makes the Renegade that mounts directly to an A2. Silencershop has them at less than $700.
http://www.silencershop.com/shop/swr-renegade
Here's a video that shows the mounting mechanism.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soRZBCEnBI0
Might have some pictures of it somewhere, but it mounts just fine on a 10.5", w/ a DD MK18 RIS II rail. It clears it no problem. But it's critical to have a good quality birdcage though. That's the reason suppressor companies are making their own muzzle devices that mate specifically with their cans is that they can control and ensure tolerances and proper lockup. Also birdcage flash hiders are typically indexed by a crush washer, which may make it more susceptible to a baffle strike if the mount isn't concentric with the bore as it wasn't design to interface with cans.
As a quick fix for this whole "pinging" business, if it that much of a pet-peeve for you, just shave off the length on one the prongs, varying them so that they don't resonate at the same harmonic frequency of each other.
"As a quick fix for this whole "pinging" business, if it that much of a pet-peeve for you, just shave off the length on one the prongs, varying them so that they don't resonate at the same harmonic frequency of each other. "
I've tried this before...I made all prongs a noticably different length...it didn't work unfortunately. Anyone else tried doing it?
If you are absolutely set on using a birdcage, SWR makes the Renegade that mounts directly to an A2. Silencershop has them at less than $700.
http://www.silencershop.com/shop/swr-renegade
Here's a video that shows the mounting mechanism.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soRZBCEnBI0
Might have some pictures of it somewhere, but it mounts just fine on a 10.5", w/ a DD MK18 RIS II rail. It clears it no problem. But it's critical to have a good quality birdcage though. That's the reason suppressor companies are making their own muzzle devices that mate specifically with their cans is that they can control and ensure tolerances and proper lockup. Also birdcage flash hiders are typically indexed by a crush washer, which may make it more susceptible to a baffle strike if the mount isn't concentric with the bore as it wasn't design to interface with cans.
As a quick fix for this whole "pinging" business, if it that much of a pet-peeve for you, just shave off the length on one the prongs, varying them so that they don't resonate at the same harmonic frequency of each other.
Man, that SWR Renegade looks like just the ticket! Thanks for that!
I can tell you that SureFire is not run by people that don't shoot. We spend a vast amount of our time at our range and with military/LE units testing but listening to what they want. We run close to 600K rounds a year just at our range. With our division we have never released a product where the military didn’t have about 90% of the influence in what they wanted. I understand the open prong might not be everyone cup of tea but it is a better flash hider than a bird cage in flash suppression. We spent a lot of time on getting the ringing to be as short as possible with a low tone.
I have been using one of these, http://www.surefire.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/350x250/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/s/f/sf3p-556-1-2-28_1.png. for a few weeks now and the ping sound is very faint and short in duration when compared to all the other open pronged type hiders that I have had in the past. Here is some additional info on the Surefire SOCOM product line.
http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oG7iC8WHhQd1kAGXtXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE1Z2VsdGloBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDOQRjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkA1NNRTA4MF8xODI-/SIG=122ht7ui0/EXP=1350093116/**http%3a//www.cheaperthandirt.com/blog/%3fp=21450
I have been using one of these, http://www.surefire.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/350x250/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/s/f/sf3p-556-1-2-28_1.png. for a few weeks now and the ping sound is very faint and short in duration when compared to all the other open pronged type hiders that I have had in the past.
That is unique to that barrel. The same mount will ping differently on different guns.
I had a blackout that wouldn't ping at all on one gun. But that same mount will ping loud on different barrels.
The enemy in the current fight has PVS-14s. In the future we can expect to fight other enemies with nods. Therefore the military is asking for improved flash suppressors. Since the military drives AAC and SF product development, that's what you get.
OP, Rainier Arms has 212 cans on sale and mounts are ubiquitous. Now is your chance.
We are still offering the adapters for the Gen3 suppressors as well. They will be going back up on the web soon in their own section.
Unfriggenbeliveable.
So, what I want is a silencer that uses a closed end flashhider as a mount, but that doesn't reflex over the barrel so I can use it on my mK18.
Source?
What happened to Surefire?
We are still offering the adapters for the Gen3 suppressors as well. They will be going back up on the web soon in their own section.
Garin, can you help me understand Surefire's lineup as it stands right now? (or as we move forward toward tax time:D)
What silencers are going away and which remain the same? Does the Mini still use the old style mounts or are they being retrofitted to the new style?
Thanks!
We have 2 series of suppressors. Gen 3 and the SOCOM series. The difference between them is the new SOCOM series has a new gas flow dynamics, new front plate design for flash mitigation, thicker vented blast baffle (most models), blast shield in back section for increase tube integrity and the indexing system was changed to an improvement in suppressor removal. They both share the same great lock ring design and tube. The web site goes into more details on each model if you would like to check it out. We plan to keep pretty much all the Gen3 cans on the books outside the FA556AR and a good portion of the adapters for them. We did kill some of the odd ball ones that just didn't sell.
ASH556 You can get the FH556-212A (end mount birdcage design) and attach any of our end mount 5.56 suppressors like FA556-212, MINI, MINI MONSTER or 212-MONSTER.
We are still offering the adapters for the Gen3 suppressors as well. They will be going back up on the web soon in their own section.
Excellent! So I don't need to run out and buy a couple 212A and 215A hiders to be able to use my can on future rifles. That's a relief. When I saw the SF website listing only the new hiders I got a little anxious.
I have a couple of AAC Blackouts just sitting in my parts bin because of that ping. Replaced them with the Brakeout but now my flash suppression is gone. I wouldn't mind trying to shave down a prong if others can confirm it works. I'm already invested into AAC with 2 cans so rather not have to switch to get a close ended Flash hider mount.
We have 2 series of suppressors. Gen 3 and the SOCOM series. The difference between them is the new SOCOM series has a new gas flow dynamics, new front plate design for flash mitigation, thicker vented blast baffle (most models), blast shield in back section for increase tube integrity and the indexing system was changed to an improvement in suppressor removal. They both share the same great lock ring design and tube. The web site goes into more details on each model if you would like to check it out. We plan to keep pretty much all the Gen3 cans on the books outside the FA556AR and a good portion of the adapters for them. We did kill some of the odd ball ones that just didn't sell.
Not sure if you're aware, but only the Socom series shows up on the website. Makes it difficult to read about the other suppressor models still available.
Garin, has the micro been discontinued and will a similar model ever be made in the SOCOM line?
Kudu22,
As far as durability is concerned,is the new 3 prong design superior to the FH556-212A?
Korgs
Which suppressor will work with both the Battlecomp 2.0 and the KAC Triple Tap?
vereceleritas
10-12-12, 17:26
Garin,
Will there be a birdcage type flash hider/mount like the FH556-212A for the SOCOM series suppressors or will it be strictly the open prong type and the brake?
saddlerocker
10-12-12, 18:51
Great news that the Gen3 cans and mounts will be available for a little longer at least.
Makes me feel much better about buying more mounts and planing on a mini next year to share with my 212
Kudu22,
As far as durability is concerned,is the new 3 prong design superior to the FH556-212A?
Korgs
Dude it's built like a brick shithouse. My only concern actually is the weight increase.
Open-ended hiders are the most effective flash hiders. They are also by far the most durable.
Every model and brand has a chance of ringing on a particular setup. My experience, with multiple brands, has been the same as POI shift- it varies between particular guns.
The design goal of these is to eliminate flash as effectively as possible, while having as long a life as possible.
Vortex- aac- surefire... all iterations of the idea. It's also true that trimming the tines to different lengths will eliminate or minimize any ring.
And i'd be willing to bet the folks at SF, aac, etc shoot a hell of a lot more than most people. The main driver for these hiders is the military- they want zero flash in low light. they could care less about a ring that is thousands of times quieter than the gunshot itself.
Kudu22,
As far as durability is concerned,is the new 3 prong design superior to the FH556-212A?
Korgs
I've not tested them side by side to failure, but I have seen similar designs tested, and from that, the answer is "yes". closed-end hiders are subject to failure via erosion on the closed ends.
FWIW, I recently removed about 7mm off of just 1 prong only of the blackout and don't notice the ping sound anymore. This is on an 18" Grendel barrel.
FWIW, I recently removed about 7mm off of just 1 prong only of the blackout and don't notice the ping sound anymore. This is on an 18" Grendel barrel.
I haven't tried it on a current flash hider/mount, but on an old flash hider (smith enterprises I think) I tried various combination of prong lengths and still got a nasty ping. It didn't make sense to me, but it happened. I'd think if simply changing lengths would solve the ping problem, that manufacturers would already be doing it.
deadlyfire
10-25-12, 20:50
Smithe Enterprises pings a hellluva lot
Taking contact in Afghanistan I couldn't help but notice the pinging coming from the M14 right next to me.
Shoulderthinggoesup
10-27-12, 19:05
bmg, check out the trifecta mount silencerco is coming out with for the saker.
http://www.defensereview.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Silencerco_Trifecta_RS_Resonance_Suppression_Pingless_3-Prong_Flash_Hider_Mount_for_5.56_Saker_5.56mm_NATO_Silencer_Sound_Suppressor_at_SHOT_Show_2012_DefenseReview.com_DR_1.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgCACW89h3k
Reagans Rascals
10-27-12, 19:07
http://battlecomp.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&products_id=54
problem solved.....
So a $155 modifcation on a $150 compensator that will likely void the warranty on your suppressor....
Reagans Rascals
10-27-12, 19:40
So a $155 modifcation on a $150 compensator that will likely void the warranty on your suppressor....
haven't seen any feedback whatsoever on it voiding the warranty... so at this point in time it's all just speculation...
still a lot cheaper than running a Triple Tap that is only compatible with the NT4
not to mention... how will AAC know you were running that mount... I fail to see your reasoning here... if the suppressor mounts up the exact same with no mods... there will be no way for them to even know what you were running to void your warranty in the first place... you don't send them your entire rifle with the suppressor if you need a warrantied repair...
haven't seen any feedback whatsoever on it voiding the warranty... so at this point in time it's all just speculation...
still a lot cheaper than running a Triple Tap that is only compatible with the NT4
not to mention... how will AAC know you were running that mount... I fail to see your reasoning here... if the suppressor mounts up the exact same with no mods... there will be no way for them to even know what you were running to void your warranty in the first place... you don't send them your entire rifle with the suppressor if you need a warrantied repair...
In many cases, yes you do. Unless its a noveske. They don't question noveske quality.
Reagans Rascals
10-28-12, 01:06
In many cases, yes you do. Unless its a noveske. They don't question noveske quality.
I've never heard of a single instance in which an individual was told to send in their rifle with their suppressor for a warranty repair/exchange
if for some reason hypothetically that ever happened to be the case, its not really that difficult to just throw on a non modded 51T mount before you send it in...
takes money to have a 51T modded, and then have another one handy, but in the end, it still works out... best of both worlds... a comp'd suppressor mount without running a Triple tap
Some people hate the ping, but there are good reasons they are going to open prongs.
If you look around you can find pics of the erosion or how the whole end of a closed flash hider will flare out under hard use.
The open prongs are erosion resistant. They are however more prone to damage and failures than closed units. Tines can bloom or break off when shooting, and can be bent during abusive use where the closed flash suppressor will not suffer these issues except in extremely un-realistic testing involving high round counts in a short period of time- such as 500 rounds on a 10.5" gun fired to the point of barrel or gas tube failure.
The pro for the open ended flash suppressor is errosive wear resistance for SOF guys who shoot tens of thousands of rounds per deployment and who's supply chains don't properly support their weapons with spare parts such as barrel or flash suppressor replacements in a timely manner corresponding to a pre-requisite round count - no connecting material leaves nothing to be worn, and they typically perform a little better than closed units.
The pro for the closed end unit is greater durability in every other situation encountered in normal use.
The perception of blooming closed end flash suppressors stem from high level military testing which typically involves unrealistic abuse that less than 1% of the military population will ever bring to a product. Where I've seen pictures of 3 prong units from quality manufacturers such as AAC and Smith Enterprise missing or bloomed tines that failed under normal use, I've never seen a "bloomed" closed end flash suppressor from a quality manufacturer.
The only picture of a bloomed unit I did see was an AAC picture, and AAC prior to Remington was famous for abusing the hell out of things in unrealistic tests designed to paint their product in a favorable light. The Surefire K model with 500 rounds on a 10.5" full auto that instigated a court case from Surefire comes to mind. I would believe this stuff more readily if I had seen a picture from a customer who had fired 210 rounds through a 14.5 and had a closed end unit failure.
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