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View Full Version : Help me understand COM-BLOC ammo... 7.62 & 5.45...



Rmplstlskn
02-08-08, 22:21
With the relative CHEAP com-bloc ammo out there now, I was think of getting some, along with a cheap AK-variant rifle to shoot it, so I can enjoy random plinking once again... without breaking the bank and shooting ammo I cannot replace.

That said, I am confused between the 7.62x39 and the 5.45x39 ammo. I thought the 5.45 was the latest, greatest Russian ammo and for awhile people were selling their kids to buy a case when a case couldn't be found, but now it seems like it is everywhere and people seem to be selling lots of it on EE... almost DUMPING it.

What gives? Is there a problem with this round? Does the bullet suck? Some have said it is BORING to shoot due to its light recoil...

I know the 7.62x39 is the "standard" AK round and I see lots of it too on sale everywhere...

For a fun gun (my AR's are for self-defense) and cheap shooting, which caliber should I focus on?

Which makers of the two calibers are known to be the BEST and most reliable (no kabooms)?

Thanks for the education I hope someone will give me...

Rmpl

TOrrock
02-09-08, 00:10
With the relative CHEAP com-bloc ammo out there now, I was think of getting some, along with a cheap AK-variant rifle to shoot it, so I can enjoy random plinking once again... without breaking the bank and shooting ammo I cannot replace.

That said, I am confused between the 7.62x39 and the 5.45x39 ammo. I thought the 5.45 was the latest, greatest Russian ammo and for awhile people were selling their kids to buy a case when a case couldn't be found, but now it seems like it is everywhere and people seem to be selling lots of it on EE... almost DUMPING it.

What gives? Is there a problem with this round? Does the bullet suck? Some have said it is BORING to shoot due to its light recoil...

I know the 7.62x39 is the "standard" AK round and I see lots of it too on sale everywhere...

For a fun gun (my AR's are for self-defense) and cheap shooting, which caliber should I focus on?

Which makers of the two calibers are known to be the BEST and most reliable (no kabooms)?

Thanks for the education I hope someone will give me...

Rmpl


Quick answer......end of the Cold War rang the death knell of the 5.45mm. I really, really like the round, but the there are very few countries that still field it; Russia, who won't get rid of it because of political and national considerations, Ukraine, Beylorus, and the poorer former republics of the old Soviet Union, and Romania, who can't afford to get rid of it.

Bulgaria, East Germany, Poland, and Romania were the Warsaw Pact countries that used the 5.45x39mm round besides Russia. East Germany was absorbed into Germany, Bulgaria and Poland joined NATO and were rich enough to make the caliber switch to 5.56mm, and while Romania is a junior member of NATO, they can't afford to make the switch just now.

The surplus you're seeing on the market is Russian stuff from the mid 1970's, probably from Bulgaria, Polish surplus, and Bulgarian manufactured surplus.

It's a flat shooting little cartridge that has less felt recoil than the 5.56mm round.

Hope that helps some.

Redmanfms
02-09-08, 04:17
Buy it cheap and stack it deep.

I suspect that the 5.45mm is headed down the same road as the 6.5mm Mannlicher-Carcano. The 6.5mm saw a similar birth in America, a flood of rifles and surplus ammunition that was available stupid cheap. After the surplus dried up it died. Sadly, the dedicated "dead" cartridge loaders probably won't keep the 5.45mm alive because it only comes in AK flavor. Once the cheap steel cased is gone that'll likely be that.

TOrrock
02-09-08, 07:53
Buy it cheap and stack it deep.

I suspect that the 5.45mm is headed down the same road as the 6.5mm Mannlicher-Carcano. The 6.5mm saw a similar birth in America, a flood of rifles and surplus ammunition that was available stupid cheap. After the surplus dried up it died. Sadly, the dedicated "dead" cartridge loaders probably won't keep the 5.45mm alive because it only comes in AK flavor. Once the cheap steel cased is gone that'll likely be that.


I dont' think it'll be that bad, as there was Russian commercial ammo available long before the surplus came in.

Obiwan
02-09-08, 13:23
I see no reason to believe that 5.45 will ever be more $$$ than 7.62

Wolf makes both

m700m
02-09-08, 18:32
it is about all corrosive correct?(5.45)

TOrrock
02-09-08, 19:24
it is about all corrosive correct?(5.45)

Surplus, yes, commercial, no.

Corrosive is NOT that big a deal, the AK was designed around corrosive ammo.

BarryP
02-09-08, 21:28
$300 WASR2 AK74
$119 1080 rds of 5.45

Cheap!

Stack it deep like others have said, its a great round, shoots the same as shooting an AK in 5.56

rathos
02-11-08, 01:02
Where can you get an ak 74 that cheap? Cheapest I have ever seen them is about $570 or so.


$300 WASR2 AK74
$119 1080 rds of 5.45

Cheap!

Stack it deep like others have said, its a great round, shoots the same as shooting an AK in 5.56

decodeddiesel
02-11-08, 11:41
Indeed, where are you seeing a $300 AK74???

Failure2Stop
02-11-08, 12:24
Where can you get an ak 74 that cheap? Cheapest I have ever seen them is about $570 or so.

They exist, but nobody that really knows AKs would touch them with a stick. They cannot really be called "AK74s" due to several issues, begining with manufacture.
>Link to AIM Surplus (http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Romanian_WASR-2_5.45x39_AK_Rifles.html)<

Of course, I am going out on a limb with the "nobody" comment, but less than rave opinion of the whole Century/Romanian AK process.

They are not imported as "high-cap" weapons, so the mag well is dremeled out to accept them. They lack receiver magazine stabilization dimples, a plate is welded inside the receiver instead. Sights are generally coated over, breaking a lot of sight adjustment tools. Most I have seen do not have a threaded barrel. Barrels are generally not very good. Combination of issues makes them less than "AK" reliable. That being said, I have a low density sampling of the weapons. The "Other Weapons" forum and AKforums will give answers by more experienced users of this import.

decodeddiesel
02-11-08, 14:37
Yikes, no thanks.

lowprone
02-11-08, 22:21
Ya gets what ya pays for, you want a really quality rifle to take advantage of all that cheap 5.45x39mm start shopping for a Arsenal 105, they are sweet. No
recoil, well almost none, accurate, and extreamly lethal inside of 300yds. I have
tried really hard to burn the barrel out of mine, still shoots surprisingly small
groups. I just found and purchased the Holy Grail of 5.45 AK's , an Arsenal 105A1R, because someday, someone , somewhere will design and build a side mount, over the bore picatinney scope mount, so I can mount a small red dot optic and maximize the potential of this weapon. I really like em.

Obiwan
02-12-08, 07:22
F2S....where do I sign up for your class....I obviously need to learn to know the AK:D

Although I must point out that the gentleman that suggested the WASR2 does , in fact, know the AK quite well having fired the original FA version in shall we say, more arid climates

As he put it..."you can spend a lot more but this will do everything an AK is supposed to do"

So , I have a WASR2...and while I may not know AK's I know this weapon inside and out

Because of the cheap ammo (less$$$ than 9mm) I shoot it more than anything else I own

I had no problem adjusting the front sight but I am a big strapping man:p

Yes, the mags wobble a bit....which causes me no problems

Yes, it has no threaded muzzle but that has not been an issue either...if it was I would replace the front sight tower or thread the barrel

I suppose I could put a brake/compensator on it, but my youngest daughter has no issues with the recoil/muzzle rise so I would feel a little embarrassed

What it has been is 100% accurate and reliable...I regularly chew the head off my target

In short, I have

"No recoil, well almost none, accurate, and extremal lethal inside of 300yds"

What more could I want:confused:

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p318/Obiwan-gunz/kkitty-74.jpg

Failure2Stop
02-12-08, 12:34
Obi-

I appreciate and understand your position on your WASR-2. It does what you want it to do. Hell, it mostly does all I want it to.

When I referred to the "people that really know AKs" I was referring to the frequent knowlegable users/collectors of that genre, such as Templar, Thekatar and the other denizens of AKdom (not to put words into their mouths). Their specific, knowledgable tastes push them away from the Century/Romanian menu an onto the Arsenal/Lancaster/Krebs etc diet. There are, however, issues with the specific model that lend to it's less than stellar perception by users, including me.

The inability to adjust the sights (deflection and elevation on the front sight) is due to the steel adjustment tools bending and breaking without adjusting the sights. Maybe the tool steel was weak. I had to use a hammer and punch to loosen the front sight to adjust deflection. The front sight elevation was completely uncooperative, and barring drilling out the sight and replacing the unit, it wasn't going to happen.

My experience and knowledge-base is with models that function well from the middle selector position. My approach to the platform are as a user in a bad position, not as a collector. I pointed anyone needing more advice/info to the appropriate section, as this is an ammo thread, and I am not an expert on this individual model other than my few personal experiences with it and other Century weapons, and the information from collectors and experts on the specific models.

To bring this back to topic- I really like the 5.45. It shoots well, low recoil, good case geometry for reliable function. It is much more controllable in full auto than 7.62x39, especially in the AKSU type platforms. However, I would not choose it as a primary defensive load, as the bullet virtually never fragments, even at very close range. I still want a 5.45 SBR though. There is just something about them that I love.

Obiwan
02-12-08, 18:46
No harm

No foul

There will always be those that want to spend more for something "better"

Otherwise nobody would be buying piston uppers:D

I personally cannot imagine spending big $$$ and still ending up with an AK:p

That's messed up

For all the horror stories about the century builds, I see tons of happy customers ...short of immediate and obvious problems they are very reliable

Many of them might not have an AK if they thought they had to spend over $600 to get one that worked...and I worry that comments like yours may have that (unintended)effect

The guy that steered my to my WASR2 had plenty of high end AK's in the rack that he was more than happy to sell to the crowd that wants something "special"

Heck...I probably would have bought one if he had told me how screwed up these were:rolleyes:

I believe the 5.45's main claim to functioning is the yaw of the bullet

While it may come in second to 5.56 it is very controllable and accurate in a carbine

Which is nice

BarryP
02-15-08, 16:36
They exist, but nobody that really knows AKs would touch them with a stick. They cannot really be called "AK74s" due to several issues, begining with manufacture.
>Link to AIM Surplus (http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Romanian_WASR-2_5.45x39_AK_Rifles.html)<



I know AKs pretty well and have a VEPR that is pretty high quality. I would like to have an SLR 105 but I use my WASRs completely for plinking and practice. Theres nothing wrong with cheapo Romanian AKs especially since they are $300 and 99% of problems are easy to fix. Ive had one SAR and three WASRs and all four were ugly but functioned perfectly fine and were completely reliable. AKs dont need to be as expensive as ARs to be reliable, and Im not meaning that as an insult since I own one complete LMT and one LMT lower/Sabre upper and like them better than AKs.