PDA

View Full Version : 4x32 BROWE Combat Optic FDE w/ DOCTER Sight III (pics)


DontCome2MyHouse
10-12-12, 20:10
This is the 4x32 BROWE Combat Optic w/ DOCTER Sight III attached to my SIG516 in FDE. I'm really diggin this optic.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-UZI0R-jIxf8/UHi6UZTXhOI/AAAAAAAACQM/H_awIVTh8YA/s800/Web1SIG516.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-xnmpUTlWndA/UHi6Ue-cjTI/AAAAAAAACQI/xRejnA2l0Ag/s800/Web4SIG516.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-v1DTX2yfYRI/UHi6U9P6JtI/AAAAAAAACQY/6CZf3Z8xA9I/s800/Web2SIG516.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-4PJ1VkGfhQs/UHi6USJp2QI/AAAAAAAACQc/55WZfibEsEI/s800/Web3SIG516.jpg
seb5
10-12-12, 20:47
Some can live with the RDS way up there. I tried to like it but just can't. Maybe because 90% of my training is 100 yards and in. What do you like about it? How many rounds have you put through your carbine with the set tp? How many with using the RDS exclusively?
DontCome2MyHouse
10-12-12, 21:08
Some can live with the RDS way up there. I tried to like it but just can't. Maybe because 90% of my training is 100 yards and in. What do you like about it? How many rounds have you put through your carbine with the set tp? How many with using the RDS exclusively?

Mine is new, but I did try a friend's setup and didn't mind the height and not having a cheekweld. My chin touches the buttstock and I pull the buttstock tight into my shoulder.

Since the DOCTER mount is round the RDS can be mounted anywhere from the 9 to 3 o'clock position if desired. I've seen some folks in competition turning their rifles sideways when using an offset RDS.
bp7178
10-12-12, 21:09
Who makes the Doctor mount, and why wouldn't the mount just use the screw bosses just forward of the elevation knob?

I've been looking at the Browe and a Trijicon TA02 with some type of mini RDS. Also looking at some 1-6x options. Decisions.
DontCome2MyHouse
10-12-12, 21:36
Who makes the Doctor mount, and why wouldn't the mount just use the screw bosses just forward of the elevation knob?

I've been looking at the Browe and a Trijicon TA02 with some type of mini RDS. Also looking at some 1-6x options. Decisions.

As far as I know BROWE makes the mount. I think they decided not to use those screws so the RDS could be rotated from 9 to 3 o'clock.
patriot_man
10-13-12, 01:44
As far as I know BROWE makes the mount. I think they decided not to use those screws so the RDS could be rotated from 9 to 3 o'clock.

That's pretty smart... :)
bp7178
10-13-12, 07:27
That's pretty smart... :)

Yeah but if you posistion the doctor at 3 o'clock not only is it higher off of the bore, now its off in both windage and elevation.

Looking at the pics again, the doctor optic can't sit that close to the elevation dial as there are screws on the rear of the unit that need to be able to be acessed. I suppose they could make it sit higher.

For the life of me I can't find the doctor mount on Browe's website at all.
DontCome2MyHouse
10-13-12, 08:04
Yeah but if you posistion the doctor at 3 o'clock not only is it higher off of the bore, now its off in both windage and elevation.

Looking at the pics again, the doctor optic can't sit that close to the elevation dial as there are screws on the rear of the unit that need to be able to be acessed. I suppose they could make it sit higher.

For the life of me I can't find the doctor mount on Browe's website at all.

Correct. You would have to rezero.

The mount isn't available yet. If you call or email you could probably get one.
bp7178
10-13-12, 10:11
It's not so much a question of having to re-zero. If the doctor sat at 3 o'clock, and you wanted to have it straight up and down when firing, which you would, your point of impact would be lower and to the right. That would make for some funky holds.
DontCome2MyHouse
10-13-12, 10:28
It's not so much a question of having to re-zero. If the doctor sat at 3 o'clock, and you wanted to have it straight up and down when firing, which you would, your point of impact would be lower and to the right. That would make for some funky holds.

I think if you mount the RDS optic at 3 or 9 it was intended for you to rotate the rifle sideways just like in shooting competitions.
bp7178
10-13-12, 13:22
What I'm saying is that it wouldn't line up directly with the bore.
Magic_Salad0892
10-13-12, 13:34
What does this do that an ACOG cannot do?
DontCome2MyHouse
10-13-12, 13:39
My plan is to leave it at the 12 o'clock position and zero the RDS @ 50 yards and BCO @ 100 yards.
JBecker 72
10-13-12, 13:39
What does this do that an ACOG cannot do?

Change batteries. :D
DontCome2MyHouse
10-13-12, 13:43
What does this do that an ACOG cannot do?

You can go on the Browe webpage and there is a ton of information about it. Rather than taking ambient light around you like in the ACOG it takes light from the target and adjusts accordingly.
DontCome2MyHouse
10-13-12, 13:55
Change batteries. :D

There is also an ACOG model with the battery option.


Designed to conserve battery life by placing the BCO in SLEEP mode if motion is not detected after two hours. The BCO has an average battery usage life of over 2000 hours with a minimum of 775 hours on max brightness. In sleep mode the battey current is less than 1uA, which will give the BCO a shelf life of over 10 years.
DontCome2MyHouse
10-13-12, 13:59
4x32 BROWE Combat Optic
The 4x32 BROWE Combat Optic (BCO) is a state-of-the-art optic that delivers highest quality optical glass, high precision machining, with a rugged military design.

The BCO is a purpose designed and built optic ideally suited for tactical scenarios and well suited for military, police and sportsmen. Its titanium housing is compact and light weight, yet nearly three times stronger than its aluminum counterparts, enhancing its ability to survive the rigors of field abuse under the most severe environmental conditions.

The BCO’s list of evolutionary technology is long and includes such features as:

Target Light Sensor Technology
The BCO has a cadmium-sulfide photocell located in the optical path providing great sensitivity and accuracy of the target light that is being transmitted through the optic, not ambient lighting. It tactical environments lighting levels are very liquid and constantly changing. When nanoseconds count there is no time to make manual illumination adjustments or search for a poorly illuminated reticle. The Target Light Sensor Technology simplifies the operation and allows the operator to focus on the job at hand.

Single Intuitive Control (SIC)
Gives the operator a simple button designed to control the illumination systems and simulate muscle memory. With a single press of the SIC button the BCO will enter Automatic Mode; this will utilize the Target Light Sensor Teechnology by measuring the light transmission and automatically set the reticle illumination to the proper brightness. The second press of the SIC button the BCO enters into Manual Mode. This gives the operator complete control of the reticle illuination with the choice of 10 day settings and 3 night vision settings.

BCO Utility Port
The BCO utility port is a sealed port on the backside of the battery housing. This port can be used to update the operating firmware or customize the existing program. It can also be used to plug in a remote pressure pad switch, so the SIC button controls can be placed at a secondary location on the weapon. This port can also be used to import or export power. This means that accessories such as lasers or mini red dots could be powered from the BCO battery. Alternatively, the BCO utility port is capable of importing power, to run on an external power source such as a central power system.

Vibration Motion Sensor
Designed to conserve battery life by placing the BCO in SLEEP mode if motion is not detected after two hours. The BCO has an average battery usage life of over 2000 hours with a minimum of 775 hours on max brightness. In sleep mode the battey current is less than 1uA, which will give the BCO a shelf life of over 10 years.

Optical Design
The BCO optical design is based on an internally adjustable roof prism optical system with an etched glass reticle. This design was incorporated to maintain a short overall length, a platform that has proven itself successful with currently deployed products. All lenses are precision ground of the finest quality optical glass available and are broad band anti-reflective coated possessing excellent light gathering capabilities even under low light conditions. The glass etched reticle incorporates an LED coupled with microprocessor technology and a cadmium-sufide photocell to measure target light levels, automatically adjusting the reticle to match target lighting conditions.
Magic_Salad0892
10-13-12, 14:00
Interesting, and to be honest looks pretty good when compared to a 4X ACOG. Does it use ACOG mounts?
JBecker 72
10-13-12, 14:01
This optic is interesting me more and more over the ACOG. This would be perfect for my 20" upper. I want to find someone who stocks them so I can check it out before I buy though.
JBecker 72
10-13-12, 14:01
Interesting. Does it use ACOG mounts?

No, it looks like it uses a Surefire mount.

Larue LT 270. http://www.laruetactical.com/larue-tactical-surefire-mount-upgrade-lt-270
Magic_Salad0892
10-13-12, 14:04
No, it looks like it uses a Surefire mount.

Larue LT 270. http://www.laruetactical.com/larue-tactical-surefire-mount-upgrade-lt-270

That's ****in' weird. I wonder how those mounts effect the durability of the optic? (As in, it staying on the gun, or not losing zero.)
JBecker 72
10-13-12, 14:05
That's ****in' weird. I wonder how those mounts effect the durability of the optic? (As in, it staying on the gun, or not losing zero.)

It looks to me like all the Larue mounts use the same clamping method, so I would imagine it's the exact same as their ACOG or Aimpoint mounts.
Magic_Salad0892
10-13-12, 14:06
It looks to me like all the Larue mounts use the same clamping method, so I would imagine it's the exact same as their ACOG or Aimpoint mounts.

Color me skeptical overall, but I'll trust you on that one. If I need a magnified optic in the future I may look at this.
DontCome2MyHouse
10-13-12, 14:13
This optic is interesting me more and more over the ACOG. This would be perfect for my 20" upper. I want to find someone who stocks them so I can check it out before I buy though.

You can get $200 off by becoming a fan on their Facebook page.
DontCome2MyHouse
10-13-12, 14:18
That's ****in' weird. I wonder how those mounts effect the durability of the optic? (As in, it staying on the gun, or not losing zero.)

It uses a LaRue ACOG mount and holds zero just fine.
JBecker 72
10-13-12, 14:22
It uses a LaRue ACOG mount and holds zero just fine.

You sure it's an ACOG mount? According to Browe's website it isn't.
JBecker 72
10-13-12, 14:32
You can get $200 off by becoming a fan on their Facebook page.

Sweet! Thanks for the info.
DontCome2MyHouse
10-13-12, 14:34
You sure it's an ACOG mount? According to Browe's website it isn't.

I always thought it was. Anyways, it does hold zero and is solid.
LSK
10-13-12, 14:42
All of these dual optic set ups wouldn't be needed if Browe or Trijicon would develop a 1-4 switch power optic. Meaning that you would have one power for CQB and four power for longer range. I have suggested this to Trijicon and they looked at me like I had a dick growing out of my forehead.
DontCome2MyHouse
10-13-12, 15:00
All of these dual optic set ups wouldn't be needed if Browe or Trijicon would develop a 1-4 switch power optic. Meaning that you would have one power for CQB and four power for longer range. I have suggested this to Trijicon and they looked at me like I had a dick growing out of my forehead.

If it was cheaper than the ELCAN I would buy it.
bp7178
10-13-12, 16:16
Sweet! Thanks for the info.

The going retail is about $200 lower than the retail price listed on Browe's website.
bp7178
10-13-12, 16:19
All of these dual optic set ups wouldn't be needed if Browe or Trijicon would develop a 1-4 switch power optic. Meaning that you would have one power for CQB and four power for longer range. I have suggested this to Trijicon and they looked at me like I had a dick growing out of my forehead.

Anything you switch is always going to be slower than any dual optic setup. The only reason to run any type of variable scope, be it an Elcan style or a more typical 1-4x is to fit into some rule bracket for competition or by policy.

For how light its suppose to be, made out of titanium and all, its not really lighter than an LED ACOG.
Singlestack Wonder
10-13-12, 18:18
Two things going against this setup for a SHTF rifle:

1. The DR sight.

2. The DR sight.
bp7178
10-13-12, 18:32
They probably didn't want to go with a RMR. ;)
DontCome2MyHouse
10-13-12, 18:34
Two things going against this setup for a SHTF rifle:

1. The DR sight.

2. The DR sight.

Did I ever claim this was a SHTF rifle? That would be my AK.
Dlo250
10-14-12, 16:58
Curious: what's so bad about the dr optic? I have a dr mount for a ta33 and was thinking about picking one up, used of course
Magic_Salad0892
10-14-12, 18:48
Curious: what's so bad about the dr optic? I have a dr mount for a ta33 and was thinking about picking one up, used of course

I don't have too much of an issue with it, other than the fact that it sucks to actually use because of the full retard chin weld you need to use it. I had one on an ACOG TA31-ECOSG.
Singlestack Wonder
10-14-12, 20:55
Curious: what's so bad about the dr optic? I have a dr mount for a ta33 and was thinking about picking one up, used of course

There's a reason the dr is not widely seen on SHTF rifles. ;)

If ones needs a miniature rds, the Trijicon RMR has proven itself.

Do some research.
seb5
10-15-12, 18:55
Curious: what's so bad about the dr optic? I have a dr mount for a ta33 and was thinking about picking one up, used of course

To me the TA33 is the most useable of the different ACOG's as a jack of all trades. If you're going to make it larger you might as well get a TA01 or TA31 of some sort.

Also to the OP I've used a TA31ECOS and hated it. A lot of people think it's a great idea and end up dumping them because of the size. Something I noticed was the mini RDS ended up getting banged around, a lot. The 3 or 9 oclock mount on a 1-4 alleviates some of this. Also with the main site zeroed at 100 and the mini at 50 you may find that the main site, whether ACOG or BROWE is better and faster because of cheek weld and fit than the mini at 50 yards. To me it's a 25 and in site when mounted way up there. YMMV.
DontCome2MyHouse
10-15-12, 21:26
There's a reason the dr is not widely seen on SHTF rifles. ;)

If ones needs a miniature rds, the Trijicon RMR has proven itself.

Do some research.

There are some differences between the two products. Trijicon picked up the DOCTER line and sold over 10,000 DOCTER II plus sights to the US SOCOM. After those were fielded the US SOCOM put out a tender for 25K MRD sights.

They basically spec out a DOCTER sight, but requested the following improvements:
• Improved positive click adjusters
• Water proof to 66ft
• Battery that could replaced without removing the sight
• Stronger housing
• On/off switch
• Night vision mode
• Required to fit the DOCTER Footprint (because they already own 10k mounts)
• Smaller dot, 2 MOA

Trijicon created the RMR, but it didn’t meet all the requirements. It’s only improvement was the stronger housing (forged aluminum) and positive click adjusters. DOCTER created the DOCTER III which had a better adjustment system, water proof, stronger housing, adjuster reticle with an on/off. The winner of the contract was Insight MRDS, they were able to build the MRDS that met all the requirements. The only problem with the MRDS is that it’s expensive. Once Trijicon created the RMR they dumped the DOCTER line along with the SHIELD (J-Point) line.
Singlestack Wonder
10-16-12, 20:25
There are some differences between the two products. Trijicon picked up the DOCTER line and sold over 10,000 DOCTER II plus sights to the US SOCOM. After those were fielded the US SOCOM put out a tender for 25K MRD sights.

They basically spec out a DOCTER sight, but requested the following improvements:
• Improved positive click adjusters
• Water proof to 66ft
• Battery that could replaced without removing the sight
• Stronger housing
• On/off switch
• Night vision mode
• Required to fit the DOCTER Footprint (because they already own 10k mounts)
• Smaller dot, 2 MOA

Trijicon created the RMR, but it didn’t meet all the requirements. It’s only improvement was the stronger housing (forged aluminum) and positive click adjusters. DOCTER created the DOCTER III which had a better adjustment system, water proof, stronger housing, adjuster reticle with an on/off. The winner of the contract was Insight MRDS, they were able to build the MRDS that met all the requirements. The only problem with the MRDS is that it’s expensive. Once Trijicon created the RMR they dumped the DOCTER line along with the SHIELD (J-Point) line.

Seen many dr's fail at ipsc matches. Convinced me that they do not belong on a fighting gun. Based on your previous comments, your ar is not a fighting gun, so anything including chi com knockoffs will work.
DontCome2MyHouse
10-16-12, 20:49
Seen many dr's fail at ipsc matches. Convinced me that they do not belong on a fighting gun. Based on your previous comments, your ar is not a fighting gun, so anything including chi com knockoffs will work.

I've seen Glocks, 1911s, ARs, optics, etc fail at matches as well. What's the point? This thread is about the optic, not about a "fighting gun" who's definition may be different than yours. If you want to bash someone's gun go elsewhere. No one is asking you to buy a DR and for you to compare the DR to chi com crap is ridiculous and shows your lack of knowledge. Last time I checked SOCOM didn't buy junk.
Magic_Salad0892
10-17-12, 05:51
Last time I checked SOCOM didn't buy junk.

The old school EOTechs, and ARMS mounts would like to have a word with you.

SOCOM may not USE junk, but they have purchased it before.
DontCome2MyHouse
10-17-12, 07:00
The old school EOTechs, and ARMS mounts would like to have a word with you.

SOCOM may not USE junk, but they have purchased it before.

They were probably the best option at the time. Hindsight is always 20/20.

Do you consider the German made DR Chinese junk?
Singlestack Wonder
10-17-12, 15:05
I've seen Glocks, 1911s, ARs, optics, etc fail at matches as well. What's the point? This thread is about the optic, not about a "fighting gun" who's definition may be different than yours. If you want to bash someone's gun go elsewhere. No one is asking you to buy a DR and for you to compare the DR to chi com crap is ridiculous and shows your lack of knowledge. Last time I checked SOCOM didn't buy junk.

As you are new here, you really should do yourself a favor and research this site. You will learn an abundance of information about hard use firearms, optics, etc.

If you want to argue as to why your new fanboy toy is the equal of or better than battle proven gear, TOS is a better forum to do so.

Good luck!
DontCome2MyHouse
10-17-12, 15:32
As you are new here, you really should do yourself a favor and research this site. You will learn an abundance of information about hard use firearms, optics, etc.

If you want to argue as to why your new fanboy toy is the equal of or better than battle proven gear, TOS is a better forum to do so.

Good luck!

Sorry, but I STILL don't understand why you say the RMR (which is an excellent RDS) is battle proven, while the DOCTER is not. That simply is not true. You then use words like "chi com" and "fanboy toy" like you have a personal grudge. You then claim somehow out of nowhere that this is a SHTF setup. Where did I ever say that it was?

And as far as starting an argument...do you really expect me to say nothing when you are shitting all over my thread? If you don't like the DR I'm more than fine with that, but don't make false claims that it's not battle proven (and I could actually care less if it was).
Magic_Salad0892
10-17-12, 18:33
They were probably the best option at the time. Hindsight is always 20/20.

Do you consider the German made DR Chinese junk?

No. But I consider the ARMS mounts that come on it junk.
Singlestack Wonder
10-17-12, 20:47
I did not say the dr was made in china. My statement was that any cheap junk (or overpriced, problem prone device) is OK to use on a non-SHTF weapon.

YMMV
Singlestack Wonder
10-17-12, 20:54
No. But I consider the ARMS mounts that come on it junk.

The OP is referring to the old dr mini reflex sight, not the Elcan Spectre DR.

FYI, if anyone is interested, SWFA is now dumping their stock of dr's (Doctor Optic).

http://swfa.com/Docter-Red-Dot-Sights-C1885.aspx
DontCome2MyHouse
10-17-12, 21:13
The OP is referring to the old dr mini reflex sight, not the Elcan Spectre DR.

FYI, if anyone is interested, SWFA is now dumping their stock of dr's (Doctor Optic).

http://swfa.com/Docter-Red-Dot-Sights-C1885.aspx

That's the older DOCTER II Plus.
Magic_Salad0892
10-18-12, 02:32
The OP is referring to the old dr mini reflex sight, not the Elcan Spectre DR.



Oh. I was pretty sure he was talkin' about SOCOM kit still.
Singlestack Wonder
10-19-12, 10:15
Oh. I was pretty sure he was talkin' about SOCOM kit still.

Ok. Never heard of the dr SOCOM kit until his post.