View Full Version : Almost lost it in a mandatory Hunter's Education course this morning...
Don't ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, lose your hunting license in New York State or you will have to sit through one of these "courses" for a second time.
Here are some of the things I "learned" from the wacked out instructor that went on political and scientific tangents constantly:
- AR based platforms in any caliber are not only not powerful enough for hunting, but not accurate enough.
- He RELOADS .22LR. You heard that right -- RELOADS the brass.
- Humans hunted dinosaurs with clubs thousands of years ago. Humans and dinosaurs -- on Earth -- at the same time -- thousands of years ago. He was not joking.
- Steel shot weighs more than lead shot.
- If you're shooting on an incline or a decline always aim higher.
- Semi-automatic handguns are not reliable and shouldn't be used for personal defense (he also fancied himself a tactical firearms instructor). If you have to use one, get an XD.
- His Powerpoint slides repeatedly had the word "misleading" spelled "miss leading." I asked him where mister leading was, but he didn't get it.
- If your vehicle breaks down greater than 3 miles into the wilderness from a road or population center, stay with it and await rescue instead of humping it back (WTF?).
- It doesn't matter what weight or of what construction bullets are. Pick the one you "like" and go with it; they're all basically the same.
There were so many more but these are the only ones that are occur to me right now. It was torture, to say the least.
Mauser KAR98K
10-13-12, 22:03
Don't feed the FUDD!!!
How do these people get qualified and are able to teach courses like this? I honestly really want to know.
Maybe there needs to be a true scholarly discipline about firearms. This crap is ridiculous.
"Elmer Fvcking Fudd".
I despise them. I really do.
I'm assuming you haven't hunted in NY for a while and never got a license with the new computer system? I never need to keep old licenses anymore (but I do keep the previous years anyway ;) ). They type in my name and print one out.
I'm assuming you haven't hunted in NY for a while and never got a license with the new computer system? I never need to keep old licenses anymore (but I do keep the previous years anyway ;) ). They type in my name and print one out.
Yeah, the last time I had one was about 10 years ago before I left the state for greener pastures. Now I'm back.
http://gamersmafia.com/storage/comments/413/13/stewie_suicide.jpg.jpeg
I'm a hunter ed instructor in the state of Alaska. I imagine that even in New York the instructors are made up primarily of volunteers. I will say that volunteering to instruct these classes has been one of the most rewarding experiences I have had in the firearms world. It has granted me access to teach firearms safety in both our local high school and elementary school. I've built a good partnership with them and I am invited back every year. Bringing gun safety and introducing kids to the safe use of guns is where we begin building solid citizens that support the Second Amendment
I won't make excuses for this guy, he should be called on to the carpet for his actions. A quality state program should have a policies and procedures manual for their hunter ed program. I'm quite sure he violated several of those policies and should be reported to the director of the program.
We are required to hand out a course evaluation form at the end of the class. Those evaluations have led to corrections being applied to individuals that strayed from the program. Was there a form likes this at the end of your class? Did you fill it out?
There are a ton of good people involved in hunter education. It is by no coincidence that accidental firearms deaths have plummeted to all time lows recently, while firearms ownership continues to rise. The drop in accidental deaths directly correlates to the beginnings of mandatory hunter education.
And finally, if you really want to improve the quality of hunter education, then volunteer.
Failure2Stop
10-13-12, 23:00
Don't ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, move to New York State.
Fixed that for ya.
QuietShootr
10-13-12, 23:05
"Elmer Fvcking Fudd".
I despise them. I really do.
This.
I'm a hunter ed instructor in the state of Alaska. I imagine that even in New York the instructors are made up primarily of volunteers. I will say that volunteering to instruct these classes has been one of the most rewarding experiences I have had in the firearms world. It has granted me access to teach firearms safety in both our local high school and elementary school. I've built a good partnership with them and I am invited back every year. Bringing gun safety and introducing kids to the safe use of guns is where we begin building solid citizens that support the Second Amendment
I won't make excuses for this guy, he should be called on to the carpet for his actions. A quality state program should have a policies and procedures manual for their hunter ed program. I'm quite sure he violated several of those policies and should be reported to the director of the program.
We are required to hand out a course evaluation form at the end of the class. Those evaluations have led to corrections being applied to individuals that strayed from the program. Was there a form likes this at the end of your class? Did you fill it out?
There are a ton of good people involved in hunter education. It is by no coincidence that accidental firearms deaths have plummeted to all time lows recently, while firearms ownership continues to rise. The drop in accidental deaths directly correlates to the beginnings of mandatory hunter education.
And finally, if you really want to improve the quality of hunter education, then volunteer.
There wasn't a course evaluation sheet, unfortunately. I'm sure there are some good people involved in the program; this was just one really bad experience. I even hesitate to report him because the classes are literally so overbooked that hunters are being denied slots all across southern NY. People are missing an entire hunting season because of a lack of class availability. If the full depth of his folly came to light, I have to imagine that he would be fired and not be teaching any more classes, and by extension, even more hunters would miss out. I suppose I could not tell the whole story so as to shield him from dismissal and maybe just have him get a talking to. I'll have to think about the best way to approach that.
Outside of the spurious firearms and hunting related "knowledge" imparted on us, I felt the even more nonsensical scientific / political digressions, which took up a sizable portion of the class, were pretty strange and probably not something he was supposed to be doing.
As far as volunteering myself, I hear you, but one can only spread one's self so thin. People say stuff like this all the time. Don't like the way your town's being run? Run for public office. Etc, etc, etc. There's only so many things in which a person can be directly involved in order to produce a better outcome. I don't think it's too much to ask that when the cookie crumbles, and people wind up in certain positions and with certain responsibilities, that they be expected to be competent.
Fixed that for ya.
Ha. I knew that was coming, just not from who.
Yeah, the last time I had one was about 10 years ago before I left the state for greener pastures. Now I'm back.
http://gamersmafia.com/storage/comments/413/13/stewie_suicide.jpg.jpeg
You poor bastard. ;)
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Great. I'm in one of these courses at the end of October. :rolleyes:
How hard was it to bite your tongue?
iPhone/Tapatalk
Great. I'm in one of these courses at the end of October. :rolleyes:
How hard was it to bite your tongue?
iPhone/Tapatalk
The only time I spoke up was when he had people handle firearms and wasn't saying a damn word when most of them had their fingers firmly on the trigger while flagging people. I did go all angry-NCO once or twice over that, but otherwise I kept quiet and watched the clock.
Where in NY are you? Want to bag some deer? EDIT: Whoops, missed your location tag. The finger lakes are a hike and a half.
I feel your pain. I went through a Hudson Valley class and I started putting an extra round in my magazine for every truck or car I saw parked on the road within a 9 mile radius of where I put in, that's how "safe" he made me feel.
Littlelebowski
10-14-12, 06:30
Let me guess, older guy?
I won't make excuses for this guy, he should be called on to the carpet for his actions. A quality state program should have a policies and procedures manual for their hunter ed program. I'm quite sure he violated several of those policies and should be reported to the director of the program.
I even hesitate to report him because the classes are literally so overbooked that hunters are being denied slots all across southern NY. People are missing an entire hunting season because of a lack of class availability. If the full depth of his folly came to light, I have to imagine that he would be fired and not be teaching any more classes, and by extension, even more hunters would miss out.
a0, I am with AKDoug on this - report this clown.
Even if people miss a season of hunting, that would be better than exposing them to the absurd incorrect statements and unsafe gun behavior you quoted. Most of the people that go thru his class probably leave thing everything he said was true. There are enough uneducated Fudd's in the US without manufacturing more of them. The finger on the trigger stuff is bad enough by itself, IMO, to have him booted.
Haven't had my license renewed in years, done almost all hunting on private ground lately. I assume I can just renew as needed, but maybe that's why assuming is for fools.
Meantime if he was really that inept (not doubting you by any means), then you should draft a bullet point letter showing how and why and send it where you believe it should go. Anyone who believes that that Fred Flintsone was real is not in a position to be educating others.
I recently attended a hunter safety course and had an excellent experience. The instructors were developing their craft, and their methods weren't always what I might have done. They were safe though, genuine in motivation and interest, and the students were eager and responsive. The class was devoid of blustering, posturing, unfounded opinion, and general BS. Not surprisingly, the instructors were all women.
I've had other hunter safety experiences that vary, but most were at least okay. The controlling authorities in the areas I attended them in were at least minimally responsive to attendees and did some quality control.
Programs like hunters safety usually hurt for volunteers, QC often lacks, and it shows. Most hunter safety instructors tend to be enthusiasts who attended the instructor course, and will have varying degrees of underlying experience.
Do your part by reaching out first to the instructor and discussing your concerns with him. Have references and information available to him to back up your position. If you don't arrive at common ground on the other stuff, get there on safety.
Avoid the urge to play stump-the-chump in class or trying to make the instructor look stupid. I know people who play these games for fun, and it does no one any good.
Visit with your local outdoor ed authorities or your wildlife management staff and see who is responsible for hunter safety courses.
Volunteer to help teach. Model safety, illustrate by example, and discuss your experiences. Well done, this will clearly delineate the good info from bad, and you will find yourself in demand.
It sounds bad, but with the average of what's commonly out there doing this sort of thing, above-average people look pretty impressive.
More unfortunate... Most students will come to such classes with no formal background or training, and assign greater competency and credibility to the instructor than may be deserved.
Be part of the solution!
SeriousStudent
10-14-12, 09:34
Reloading .22 brass.......I can still taste the vomit in my mouth.
There is rarely any shame in an instructor not knowing one of the more esoteric points of knowledge. Some of the best skills training I have had, has been when an instructor answered "Interesing question - let's find out." And the class then proceeded to design an experiment to discover the facts.
I do understand they can't actually let you shoot a deer in class to ascertain terminial ballistics.
That class sounds like being trapped in the convention center elevator, with five bubba's leaving the gun show. :eek:
The only time I spoke up was when he had people handle firearms and wasn't saying a damn word when most of them had their fingers firmly on the trigger while flagging people. I did go all angry-NCO once or twice over that, but otherwise I kept quiet and watched the clock.
Where in NY are you? Want to bag some deer? EDIT: Whoops, missed your location tag. The finger lakes are a hike and a half.
Which side of the state are you on?
QuietShootr
10-14-12, 11:04
Once, a few years ago, I helped run the 4-H hunter safety program in my county for a couple of months. The fudds in charge were apoplectic at my teaching the Four Rules (unmodified from the original Cooper) and my insistence on teaching sans fudd bullshit like the OP refers to.
montanadave
10-14-12, 12:34
I can't recall what the exact ages were, but in Montana kids under 12 or 13 had to show proof they had attended Hunter's Safety before they could get a license.
But our real motivation was to see all the gory gunshot photos the instructor showed on the last night of class. :laugh:
Ah, those halcyon days of youth when a boy had to exercise a little initiative to see such things. Or keep a stash of Playboy mags and a few cached cigarettes safely hidden at the vacant lot down the street where everybody hung out.
The internet has robbed today's kids of a lot of simple pleasures.
Which side of the state are you on?
He's down near the big rotten apple
iPhone/Tapatalk
ForTehNguyen
10-14-12, 18:29
NY Instructor, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
NY Instructor, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
Is this a hypothetical response to the guy or did somebody with the name NY Instructor respond in this thread and get deleted?
ForTehNguyen
10-14-12, 18:34
Its an appropriate quote from the movie Billy Madison
Is this a hypothetical response to the guy or did somebody with the name NY Instructor respond in this thread and get deleted?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0
Now choke yourself, Pvt Pyle. :D
QuietShootr
10-14-12, 18:54
NY Instructor, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
http://cdn.head-fi.org/c/c3/c37cd6f7_This-thread-Is-full-of-win.jpg
JBecker 72
10-14-12, 19:22
Is this a hypothetical response to the guy or did somebody with the name NY Instructor respond in this thread and get deleted?
Billy Madison dude.
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nineteenkilo
10-15-12, 10:35
I can honestly say the hunter ed courses taught here in Alabamastan are not bad from hat I've seen. I am too old (there will be NO barbs from the peanut gallery) so I wasn't required to take it myself. The wife was too young (NO) to hunt without going and sitting through it. I volunteered to go with her so she wouldn't have to do it alone.
There was a written test on things that were covered in the class portion of the course and most of it was very practical in nature. Basics like:
1. Don't climb fences and jump ditches with a gun in your hand.
2. Don't shoot orange deer
3. Differences in rimfire/centerfire/shotshell
4. Firearm Safety
5. Ethics and the conservation cycle
You know, the things that everyone should know about hunting, but that somehow might have been overlooked in their youth. Not like ly in my state, but okay.....
There was also a field day that was mandatory so that you could actually prove that you are not an asshole. More hunting basics for our state like:
1. Climbing stands/safety harnesses/prussic knots/pull ropes
2. Crossing terrain safely
3. Firearm safety
4. Stalking/stand/dog hunting
5. Bird hunting
6. Wildlife ID
While I can't say I learned anything new, it reinforced many things I had been taught as a child and made me rethink them in a controlled setting. All in all, not bad for a free couple of days.
And if the instructor from the OP post were actually an AR guy: why, of course Bushmaster and DPMS are mighty-fine. The military uses them. Colt's overpriced garbage anyway.
Suwannee Tim
10-16-12, 19:59
I attended a safety class in 1987 where the instructor told a story about aiming a 30-30 at the back of his wife's head and beginning to squeeze the trigger, stopping, then realizing the gun was loaded. I immediately got up, picked up the cigar box where he kept the paperwork and student's checks, recovered my and my buddy's checks and asked if anyone else wanted a refund. Half the class responded affirmatively so I handed the cigar box off to one of them and walked out, buddy in tow.
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