Speer .45 acp 230 grain Gold Dot on a deer

[500grains]

My kids shot deer (thread here: http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?p=1417585#post1417585).

After the posed photo, I had them shoot some .38 spl 125 grain Gold Dots and some .45 acp 230 grain Gold Dots into the deer's chest. The .45s were fired from a Colt Commander. The deer was laying on its side and the bullets entered the sternum area and proceeded toward the spine. A friend butchered the deer, so I was not there to attempt to measure penetration. No .38 bullets were recovered. Two .45 bullets were recovered.

http://imageshack.us/a/img268/4760/002zaw.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img189/2153/006lla.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img825/6462/005aid.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img832/9137/007wxg.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img526/1218/011fz.jpg

[Sensei]

That's a little less expansion than is typically seen, but acceptable for my uses. FWIW, 230 grain GD is my carry load when using 45 ACP.

[500grains]

Less than is typically seen in gelatin, or less than is seen in humans? I have not seen a Gold Dot recovered from a human, which is why I did the deer experiment. I always wondered, "Will these hollow points expand?"

[Sensei]

Both, I think. I believe that autopsy reports of this load mirror gel performance. Dr Roberts would be able to confirm.

Also, it might be good to note that most 45ACP loads expand best thu a 5" barrel which is the standard for the caliber. One might say that 45 ACP is the most sensitive of the combat calibers when it comes to velocity and barrel length affecting expansion. Your 4" commander is going to provide less velocity and thus less expansion than a fullsize weapon. In accordance with Dr. Roberts' recommended loads for short barrel 45 ACP, I see your results as acceptable but not ideal.

[S. Galbraith]

I've never recovered a handgun bullet from a carcass that has expanded as much as it does in gel or water. I have noticed that the heavier, slower velocity JHPs in any given caliber can occasionally not expand at all.

[vicious_cb]

Actually it looks every similar to the heavy clothing test as evidenced by the large concave cavity in the middle. Maybe the bullet was plugged up by the hide?

[ST911]

The deer was laying on its side and the bullets entered the sternum area and proceeded toward the spine.

??


Less than is typically seen in gelatin, or less than is seen in humans? I have not seen a Gold Dot recovered from a human, which is why I did the deer experiment. I always wondered, "Will these hollow points expand?"


I've never recovered a handgun bullet from a carcass that has expanded as much as it does in gel or water. I have noticed that the heavier, slower velocity JHPs in any given caliber can occasionally not expand at all.

I've seen 180gr GDHPs in 40 and 230gr GDHPs in 45 recovered from humans at autopsy. Performance was similar as in gelatin.

I've shot dozens of white tail deer with the 40 GDHP, and recovered or received the expanded bullets. They performed similarly.

[481]

The deer was laying on its side and the bullets entered the sternum area and proceeded toward the spine.


How'd ya get 'im to lay down?





:D

[500grains]

??



The deer was dead, laying on its side on the ground. The gun was held about 18 inches off the ground and fired into the bottom of the chest (what would be considered the front of the chest on a human).

[DocGKR]

BG testing is the absolute best case scenario. Most bullets recovered from real world shooting incidents look more like the 4LD tests... That is why most bullets that do well in 4LD testing tend to have good track records in actual LE agency OIS incident results.

[jonconsiglio]

Years back when I carried gold dot instead of what I currently carry, which is Ranger T-Series or Ranger Bonded, I carried it more for the characteristics of being bonded rather than because of its expansion.

Next time we go hog or coyote hunting, I'll try to take a few different loads to test out. I've been meaning to compare 50gr Black Hills TsX and 70gr TSX, so I'll do the same with my handgun ammo.

Thanks for posting.

[500grains]

the 4LD tests...

Where can I read about 4LD tests?

[Snake Plissken]

4LD = Four Layer Denim

[Sixgun_Symphony]

Where can I read about 4LD tests?

Test Event 2: Heavy Clothing

The gelatin block is covered with four layers of clothing: one layer of cotton T-shirt material (48 threads per inch); one layer of cotton shirt material (80 threads per inch); a 10 ounce down comforter in a cambric shell cover (232 threads per inch); and one layer of 13 ounce cotton denim (50 threads per inch). This simulates typical cold weather wear. The block is shot at ten feet, measured from the muzzle to the front of the block.

[tpd223]

BG testing is the absolute best case scenario. Most bullets recovered from real world shooting incidents look more like the 4LD tests... That is why most bullets that do well in 4LD testing tend to have good track records in actual LE agency OIS incident results.

Every 9mm Gold Dot I have seen from one of our OISs looked almost exactly like those from the Speer bullet poster heavy clothing and IWBA denim tests.


ETA; that is regardless of clothing worn by the bad guy.

[DocGKR]

Exactly!