View Full Version : Texas DPS SOG team selects Sig Sauer 1911 TACOPs.
HudsonLion
10-18-12, 16:59
SIG SAUER has been selected by the Texas Department of Public Safety’s (DPS) Special Operations Group (SOG) to provide .45 Auto 1911 TACOPs as the agency’s official sidearm.
The SOG is the tactical unit of the Texas DPS that includes the Texas Ranger Special Weapons and Tactics (SWAT) Team, the Texas Ranger Reconnaissance Team, and the Special Response Team.
The intensive testing process began when the group sought out a large-caliber handgun capable of making fast and accurate follow-up shots. After intensive endurance and environmental testing was concluded, the SIG SAUER 1911 TACOPs pistol was selected by the Texas Ranger SWAT Team. Since then, DPS SOG has authorized officers the option of carrying either the 1911 TACOPs or their duty issued SIG SAUER P226 DAK in .357SIG.
Ugh. Well they also chose the BM AR so.....
C4
Ugh. Well they also chose the BM AR so.....
C4
How's that been working out for them...any issues?
How's that been working out for them...any issues?
Really depends on whether or not they shoot them. All AR's are "flawless" sitting in the trunk or safe.
C4
Failure2Stop
10-18-12, 17:45
Someone is going to regret this decision.
Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.
Littlelebowski
10-18-12, 17:53
Someone is going to regret this decision.
This....
Traveshamockery
10-18-12, 18:01
Ooh, did they choose the diamond plate or rainbow finish?
Someone is going to regret this decision.
Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.
X 50000.
C4
Sad day for us Texans. Epic waste of tax dollars.
Littlelebowski
10-18-12, 18:48
Ooh, did they choose the diamond plate or rainbow finish?
/thread
Well played.
Well at least this still have the option to carry their Sig P226's.
SeriousStudent
10-18-12, 20:15
Someone is going to regret this decision.
Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.
I just hope it's a politician, and not one of the Troopers carrying it. I like those guys. :(
Sad day for us Texans. Epic waste of tax dollars.
STI right in the middle of Texas and they bought elsewhere...things that make you say hmmm...
Oh well. They'll fit in nicely with their Bushmasters.
Hmph. Suckers.........
Maybe the lowest bidder?
You hope/they should have done rigorous testing on several pistols and chosen the one that performed the best under the test guidelines. People's lives are worth more than a few hundred extra dollars per pistol. If they wanted a 1911, that's fine; just choose one on performance, not for other reasons. Not saying this didn't happen, but if it didn't, it should have.
justlikeanyoneelse
10-20-12, 13:46
Honestly, does this news surprise anyone?
Like they will ever use them anyway.
Honestly, anytime anyone picks a SIG 1911 it surprises me.
But I get your point.
Bolt_Overide
10-20-12, 15:41
50 bucks says someone got their dick sucked to make this happen, just like ****ing ACU's.
Ooh, did they choose the diamond plate or rainbow finish?
Cue golf clap...
Better yet, the Gambler Edition?
Those operators must be REAL special.
Those operators must be REAL special.
I'm not sure what you have against Texas Rangers, but okay.
Regarding the guns, Richard Heinie once commented that he bought three off of Gunbroker and he thought they were/thinks they are pretty decent guns. Saying that's a pretty good endorsement is an understatement. Even Hilton Yam has said for the money, they're pretty good guns. I think his objection was it failed his no mag extraction test. I wouldn't personally know because I've never owned one, nor did I see the testing that I assume TDPS did.
Not a thing against them. Just saying that their superiors must think the world of those guys to stick 'em with those pieces.
benthughes
10-21-12, 00:03
I really like my Sig Scorpion 1911 but it would never be my carry gun. I think any unit that chooses a 1911 as their duty gun is looking for trouble, especially when you consider your options. Someone has their head up their ass.
My Sig is a good gun but it's the one in my collection that gives me any trouble. Granted , malfunctions are few and far between but it's enough to preclude it from being a carry gun.
Gary1911A1
10-21-12, 07:54
You hope/they should have done rigorous testing on several pistols and chosen the one that performed the best under the test guidelines. People's lives are worth more than a few hundred extra dollars per pistol. If they wanted a 1911, that's fine; just choose one on performance, not for other reasons. Not saying this didn't happen, but if it didn't, it should have.
Agree 100%.
I only have about 800 rounds through my SIG TacOps Traditional model so far, but I have yet to have a malfunction that was a fault of the pistol (had one FTF due to a flipped primer). It's been great so far. It's very accurate and just shoots great.
Would I choose it as a duty gun, probably not when there are so many other options out there that would better fill that roll. But it is a very good pistol for the price if you wanted a 1911.
I'm not sure what you have against Texas Rangers, but okay.
Regarding the guns, Richard Heinie once commented that he bought three off of Gunbroker and he thought they were/thinks they are pretty decent guns. Saying that's a pretty good endorsement is an understatement. Even Hilton Yam has said for the money, they're pretty good guns. I think his objection was it failed his no mag extraction test. I wouldn't personally know because I've never owned one, nor did I see the testing that I assume TDPS did.
To be honest, it really isn't about SIG's 1911's. I don't want to see a 1911 for LE use. Why? The 1911 (no matter who makes it) should only be used by experienced users. Since most LE are NOT "gun guys" I think this is a mistake.
C4
Littlelebowski
10-21-12, 12:58
To be honest, it really isn't about SIG's 1911's. I don't want to see a 1911 for LE use. Why? The 1911 (no matter who makes it) should only be used by experienced users. Since most LE are NOT "gun guys" I think this is a mistake.
That and the very real problem of armorer support for 1911s.
To be honest, it really isn't about SIG's 1911's. I don't want to see a 1911 for LE use. Why? The 1911 (no matter who makes it) should only be used by experienced users. Since most LE are NOT "gun guys" I think this is a mistake.
C4
That and the very real problem of armorer support for 1911s.
I understand what you're both saying, but these guys are SWAT, SOG etc, so the best of what the TDPS/Texas Rangers has to offer. Wouldn't you think they're pretty experienced? For armorer support, I would hope they thought about this prior to adopting the guns. For some reason, I always thought the 1911 was fairly common among Texas Rangers, am I wrong?
I understand what you're both saying, but these guys are SWAT, SOG etc, so the best of what the TDPS/Texas Rangers has to offer. Wouldn't you think they're pretty experienced? For armorer support, I would hope they thought about this prior to adopting the guns. For some reason, I always thought the 1911 was fairly common among Texas Rangers, am I wrong?
With how to properly maintain and troubleshoot 1911's? No, not really.
I understand that their 1911's are primarily a secondary weapon, but if they are not then do you really want:
A. A cheap 1911 to bet your life on?
B. A gun that only holds 7-8rds?
C4
I understand what you're both saying, but these guys are SWAT, SOG etc, so the best of what the TDPS/Texas Rangers has to offer. Wouldn't you think they're pretty experienced? For armorer support, I would hope they thought about this prior to adopting the guns. For some reason, I always thought the 1911 was fairly common among Texas Rangers, am I wrong?
Being the best they have to offer doesn't mean they're the most competent of shooters...
Littlelebowski
10-21-12, 18:08
I understand what you're both saying, but these guys are SWAT, SOG etc, so the best of what the TDPS/Texas Rangers has to offer. Wouldn't you think they're pretty experienced? For armorer support, I would hope they thought about this prior to adopting the guns. For some reason, I always thought the 1911 was fairly common among Texas Rangers, am I wrong?
The armorer support problem is HUGE. Think about what goes into maintaining a 1911 versus a Glock and then multiply that by several numbers.
With how to properly maintain and troubleshoot 1911's? No, not really.
I understand that their 1911's are primarily a secondary weapon, but if they are not then do you really want:
A. A cheap 1911 to bet your life on?
B. A gun that only holds 7-8rds?
C4
Hmm interesting point. Not quite sure I was thinking about it in that way.
A. I still maintain my original question, which is how did they arrive at a 1911 and how did they arrive at that pistol. So I guess two questions. I hope that they did rigorous testing on the guns, had several good candidates and this gun performed the best. Having said all that, I'll also say that on face value, I would not. But I've been indoctrinated into the LAV/Hilton Yam way of thinking regarding 1911s, so I'm not exactly neutral on the subject.
B. There's two ways to look at this. First, if you shoot it better than everything else, maybe it should be the first choice. On the other hand, as you're alluding to, there are plenty of really good guns out there in .45 that hold more rounds. And of course, a good shooter can learn to shoot any pistol well. I think that's my way of saying I can see both sides of it.
Being the best they have to offer doesn't mean they're the most competent of shooters...
But in an agency of that size, they should have in place some fairly rigid shooting standards for their SWAT/SOG guys. In fact, I would be very surprised if they didn't.
The armorer support problem is HUGE. Think about what goes into maintaining a 1911 versus a Glock and then multiply that by several numbers.
I completely understand what you're saying and I know it's the reason why LAV went looking for an alternative for Delta. And from a personal standpoint, it's the reason I've stayed away from the 1911 as a carry gun. As I said earlier, I would hope that their prior experience with the weapon might have prepared them for what's coming. I hope and they did are not the same things. I have my suspicions on the subject, but they're not based in fact, so there's no need to share them.
These guys risk their lives daily for the betterment of society and I'm just hoping, as I would with any organization that does, that it was a well thought out and rigorously tested decision.
The armorer support problem is HUGE. Think about what goes into maintaining a 1911 versus a Glock and then multiply that by several numbers.
Off the top of my head, I can think of 1 LE agencies that made the Sig 1911 mistake: Boston PD SWAT. My home state of NC made a similar mistake when the NCSBI adopted Kimber as their issued weapon. The NCSBI debacle resulted in an investigation into the misuse of state funds. Hopefully, TX DPS's mistake will be as short lived as the other two agencies.
STI right in the middle of Texas and they bought elsewhere...things that make you say hmmm...
Sigs have been their "issue" gun for some time now. Not sure the Model makes that much of a difference?
I dont recall seeing anything other than a Sig or a 1911 on their hips.
I'm just going to file this under Texas Ranger "gunslinger" bravado. Because when I see a Ranger, he's usually carrying a 1911 of some sort in a pristine holster, shiny boots, and a sharp suit.
Slvr Surfr
10-22-12, 07:55
TX DPS issues all troopers Sig Sauer P226 DAO, chambered in .357 Sig. Their choice to go with Sig 1911's doesn't surprise me.
Most all of the Rangers I have met usually carry a 1911 that is customized in one way or another and also have custom made leather carry gear. It is not out of the ordinary to have their leather work done by inmates in the Texas prison system. Some of the finest leather work I have ever seen.
I think most of the Rangers are traditional 1911 guys and go for Colts. I have never seen a Ranger carrying a Sig 1911 as of yet.
I think most of the Rangers are traditional 1911 guys and go for Colts.
I think that a 1911 has just become part of the "uniform" coming from organizational inertia... just like the M45 CQBP. :eek:
Littlelebowski
10-22-12, 08:35
I think that a 1911 has just become part of the "uniform" coming from organizational inertia... just like the M45 CQBP. :eek:
My thoughts as well.
What's wrong with the gun? Any known issues?
What's wrong with the gun? Any known issues?
Tons. Do some some searching around the net.
With that said, they have gotten better as they have gone along.
Any 1911 you buy for under $1800 is going to be full of MIM parts and will only be built as well as the gunsmith that did it THAT DAY. So you could have two guns come out of a factory the same day. One will run and the other won't. Why? One pistolsmith is better than the other.
C4
Littlelebowski
10-22-12, 12:40
Got the below from an anonymous SWAT cop.
They functioned great beside sights falling off and mags falling apart.
Sig 1911 Nitron rail.
40 issued
5 front sights (fell off)
7 rear sights (fell off)
about 30 magazines (fell apart)
One common thing that I did notice with the sights. All that went flying had the US patent number on them. The Mags had a plastic base plate that broke off.
brickboy240
10-22-12, 13:12
Many Colts run well under 1800 bucks and only have 2-3 MIM parts. Not the end of the world and easily fixable.
I have read that Dan Wesson 1911s have no MIM parts.
But yes, most others under 1800 do have tons of MIM parts and in critical areas like hammers, safties and bushings.
That said...I have a Kimber TLE II that must have been made by the "good pistolsmith" at Kimber because the damn thing runs and never gives me any trouble. I am pretty sure I got one of the only good Series II Kimbers! LOL
My other Colts are older Series 70 guns and have no MIM at all.
Sorry to get off topic. However, I really an stunned that our DPS chose the pistols that they did. I would think that if they wanted a good 45, the HK45 would be a much better choice for their style of use.
-brickboy240
Many Colts run well under 1800 bucks and only have 2-3 MIM parts. Not the end of the world and easily fixable.
Colt IS the standard for lower end 1911's IMHO. They still have MIM in them though.
That said...I have a Kimber TLE II that must have been made by the "good pistolsmith" at Kimber because the damn thing runs and never gives me any trouble. I am pretty sure I got one of the only good Series II Kimbers! LOL
I think you did too! Buy a lotto ticket.
C4
does sig put exterior extractors in all their 1911's??
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Grant, I heard the other day that Kimber is the best $500 1911 that you can pay $1000 for...:D
brickboy240
10-22-12, 16:30
Seriously...my 3rd gen G19 has given me more troubles than the now 5 year old TLE II Kimber!
Sad..but true.
(but someone also told me that Saabs were troublesome but our old 900 gave us tons less trouble than several Fords we owned)
-brickboy240
Got the below from an anonymous SWAT cop.
Quote:
They functioned great beside sights falling off and mags falling apart.
Sig 1911 Nitron rail.
40 issued
5 front sights (fell off)
7 rear sights (fell off)
about 30 magazines (fell apart)
One common thing that I did notice with the sights. All that went flying had the US patent number on them. The Mags had a plastic base plate that broke off.
Interesting. Thanks for the information.
Shaking my head at a state po-lice "Special Operations Group" even more than their choice of sidearm.
Magic_Salad0892
10-22-12, 18:43
Colt IS the standard for lower end 1911's IMHO. They still have MIM in them though.
Wouldn't calling them "lower end" be kind of a stretch?
Wouldn't calling them "lower end" be kind of a stretch?
They are sub $1K 1911's. So no.
C4
CoolBreeze1911
10-22-12, 21:10
I happen to very much like my Sig TacOps 1911. I have had it for 6 months, shot it every week, and not had one issue. That said, I know there are certainly better options in the 1911 arena (my ultimate choice would be a Nighthawk), but I don't disapprove of the choice. All the bad reviews of Sig1911's are from the very early versions which had issues that have since been corrected (at least that's my understanding).
They are sub $1K 1911's. So no.
C4
I think that quality comparison vs. price is completely subjective!
I think that quality comparison vs. price is completely subjective!
I guess, but honestly you can only spend so much time on a pistolsmiths bench for under $1k.
C4
I guess, but honestly you can only spend so much time on a pistolsmiths bench for under $1k.C4
I think that there is consensus among the top 1911 smiths that the entry price for a duty quality 1911 is just north of $1800. Then, there is the downstream cost of maintance. Agencies like the FBI that stick with the 1911 always make the plunge with both feet in that they go with a quality pistol and a ton of manufacturer maintance support. Those that try to do it on the cheap inevitably regret the decision.
I've not heard a single reputable SME argue for a production 1911 in a duty holster. Not a single one...
I've not heard a single reputable SME argue for a production 1911 in a duty holster. Not a single one...
Hilton Yam might disagree with that. In fairness though, the list of production 1911s to which he gives a nod is very, very limited. Namely, Colts and Springers (Loaded and above).
I've got an entire Rail Gun setup for duty, and am probably as just around $1700 all-in, after gun, holster, quad pouch, a bundle of quality mags, and some light-ish upgrades (sights, mag well, and some EGW/10-8 small parts).
Magic_Salad0892
10-23-12, 18:19
I think that there is consensus among the top 1911 smiths that the entry price for a duty quality 1911 is just north of $1800. Then, there is the downstream cost of maintance. Agencies like the FBI that stick with the 1911 always make the plunge with both feet in that they go with a quality pistol and a ton of manufacturer maintance support. Those that try to do it on the cheap inevitably regret the decision.
I've not heard a single reputable SME argue for a production 1911 in a duty holster. Not a single one...
I thought LAV recommended Wilson Combat, and said that they didn't really need any work from factory.
I thought LAV recommended Wilson Combat, and said that they didn't really need any work from factory.
Yeah, but when I think Wilson Combat, I think semi custom. Production to me means Sig, Kimber, Colt etc.
HudsonLion
10-23-12, 20:40
Sig has an opportunity here to step up to the plate and make a good name for their 1911s. With a good showing, they could earn their way into additional LE holsters. Quite interesting that over the last 5-7 years the 1911 has made crossroads into the Law Enforcement community.
I guess, but honestly you can only spend so much time on a pistolsmiths bench for under $1k.
C4
Very true! When you're right, you are right!
I think a in that equation has to be considered weather or not that firearm is going to be used on a daily basis to protect your life. As a range/competition gun i find my Kimber to be more the adequate. However if i were to carry a 1911 rig as a service weapon, I like many others here would be stepping it up to the higher end weapons that i know are going to function every time when they need to.
But all firearms are subject to malfunction and misfire when not properly cared for. I have fired a couple thousand rounds through my Kimber Custom II both factory and handloads of my only a couple hiccups (both magazine related). I would have no issue trusting it with my life.
As far as the Sig goes, i can not speak for it's track record. But from what has been reported on this thread by people in the know. I don't think i could say the same for it.
Hilton Yam might disagree with that. In fairness though, the list of production 1911s to which he gives a nod is very, very limited. Namely, Colts and Springers (Loaded and above).
I've got an entire Rail Gun setup for duty, and am probably as just around $1700 all-in, after gun, holster, quad pouch, a bundle of quality mags, and some light-ish upgrades (sights, mag well, and some EGW/10-8 small parts).
By production, I mean a stock pistol outside of quality sight upgrade going from the factory box to your duty holster. I'd be really surprised if Yam would take a Springfield loaded into a duty or hard use environment without any tune up or new parts. Your rail gun is really a semi custom weapon if you are sporting upgraded small parts or if it had a reliability enhancement by a quality smith. Granted, your method of upgrading small parts is probably the most cost effective means of getting a production gun up to speed for duty use. This was the Corps' method of fielding 1911's with armorers at Quantico "creating" a service pistol out production quality guns and lots of parts.
I thought LAV recommended Wilson Combat, and said that they didn't really need any work from factory.
Wilson, Springfield Custom Shop, Nighthawk, Ed Brown, Les Baer, etc. are all semi-custom weapons. While they all make models that are immediately ready for duty, their base models usually start above $2K. The only notable exception that I own is the LB TRP which comes in less that $2k and seems to hold up fairly well.
Magic_Salad0892
10-24-12, 04:01
Wilson, Springfield Custom Shop, Nighthawk, Ed Brown, Les Baer, etc. are all semi-custom weapons. While they all make models that are immediately ready for duty, their base models usually start above $2K. The only notable exception that I own is the LB TRP which comes in less that $2k and seems to hold up fairly well.
I thought you meant buy a pistol, then send it in to a smith for work. I basically consider any work done at the factory to be "production" work.
I thought you meant buy a pistol, then send it in to a smith for work. I basically consider any work done at the factory to be "production" work.
I think that most 1911 shooters rank pistols in one of three categories:
1) Production - factory assembled with little or no hand fitting of small parts and no real tuning for reliability. These usually cost under $1400 depending on the quality of the parts used. The Sig pistol is a perfect example. The standard Springfield TRP is still considered production but costs more due to more features, a little extra hand fitting, and higher quality parts. They get the same test fire from the factory as a Glock or M&P.
2) Semi-custom - gets assembled with hand fitting of parts and is extensively tuned at the factory for accuracy and reliability. The Springfield TRP Pro is a great example. I have 2 of these and most of the larger parts are individually engraved with the SN. These tend to use very high quality parts (yes, the Pro has 4 MIM parts including slide stop, firing pin stop, mag catch, and disconnector that are thought to be very high quality production). They also sport some custom features such as Birdsong Black-T finish. My PRO's (pre 2004 production) were test fired with each of the supplied mags and came with a sample target containing a ragged 1.5" hole at 25 yards using Remington Golden Saber. The entry cost for these start at about $2300. Other great examples of semi custom 1911's that are of equal quality (I own each) would be the EB Kobra Carry and Wilson CQB.
3) Full Custom - these are designed and assembled by a custom pistol smith around a buyer's specifications. Cost can be north of $4K and the wait can sometimes be measured in years depending on the smith.
Note: A production pistol can be moved up in class by swapping out poorly fitted parts or sending it to a reputable smith to be tuned. For example, you can send you Springfield loaded to the Custom Shop and they will upgrade it to a PRO-level pistol for a mere $1.5K.
HudsonLion
10-25-12, 17:00
Regarding the duty ready 1911, there seems to be a vast difference from what we report/write on the internet and what actually is riding in a holster at 0200. If one listens or reads the subject matter experts on 1911s, you would purchase a semi-custom or full custom gun. The price point often used is between $1200-$1500. I'm not questioning what LAV or Yam states. They know what they are talking about. The real question is, do we actually practice what is preached?
For the most part, on the Federal level, the answer is yes. The Federal Government overwhelmingly issues high quality, high priced Springfield Professional models to their law enforcement arms. I would even group the USMC'S recent purchase of Colt's in the same area as the level of support etc is going to be greater than a deputy in the middle of Iowa receives. While the Colt's record has yet to be determined, the Springfield Professional model has proven to be rock solid over the last 10+ years of duty issue to some of the hardest end users. That information alone would tend to support the SME'S stance on high quality, >$1200-$1500 weapons.
When we look outside of Uncle Sam's Special Agents and Tier 1 operators though, the answer is no. For the most part <$1200-$1500 1911s are the norm for State/Local law enforcement. If we run down the line of manufacturers, Kimber & Springfield seem to vie for 1st place with Colt a not to distant 3rd. Models like Kimber's TLE or Springfield's MC Operator are some of the more popular models. One agency that would seem to be operating <$1200-$1500 1911s in their duty holsters is the Los Angeles Police Department. For the most part, almost any Kimber, Springfield or Colt 1911 is allowed. If one catches a good deal, a Kimber TLE or Springfield Loaded can be had for less than a $1000.
So all of this leads us to a slight impass. The subject matter experts extoll the virtues of higher quality and therefore higher priced weapon systems. What their comments don't erase is the ovewhelming number of Agents/Officers that operate bone stock <$1200-$1500 1911s. It would seem that the actual reality of the situation would be that an ever growing number of <$1200-$1500 1911s are being carried day in and day out without the gifted hand of a gun smith giving their blessings.
One agency that would seem to be operating <$1200-$1500 1911s in their duty holsters is the Los Angeles Police Department. For the most part, almost any Kimber, Springfield or Colt 1911 is allowed.
Since when is this the case? The only 1911s on their approved list are Kimbers. The SIS people did/do obviously have their own gun. Some of the LAPD SWAT GUYS carry Kimbers, but I don't think all do. There has been rumors that Glock 21s are becoming increasingly popular in that unit. Don't know if it's true, but it makes sense considering in the recent past their issue pistols were 40 cal Glocks.
Finally, since I've never looked at an LAPD SWAT 1911, I have no idea whether or not they've had the internal parts replaced with parts from another company. Do you know?
HudsonLion
10-25-12, 20:48
To the best of my knowledge, LAPD allows officers to carry 1911s. You need to qualify at expert or above levels and complete a 2 day transition course. Personally owned weapons allowed are from Kimber, Springfield and Colt.
brickboy240
10-26-12, 17:35
I actually bought one of those Kimber TLE IIs on a whim because it was crazy cheap. Five years later and the pistol has run 100% right out of the box! Granted...I only have maybe 2000rds through the thing. Definitely not the norm.
I was planning on dumping the gun by now but since it is a range toy...I might just shoot it and see how long it will go before crapping out! LOL
Bought a new 3rd gen Glock 19 last spring and the damn thing is still giving me troubles and I am waiting on an extractor/ejector fix. Yeah...a Glock 9mm...pain in the ass from the moment I brought it home.
Who knew that the Glock 9mm would be such a pain while the damn MIM-filled Kimber hums right along? LOL
The pistol world is crazy at times...this much I have learned.
-brickboy240
(my TLE II is proof of a broken clock being right twice a day...I guess)
Chris James
10-26-12, 19:58
Maybe something like this
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.269797119719622.72842.199889123377089&type=3
shameless plug alert
My TacOps has around 600 trouble free rounds through it.
Buckshot TX
10-26-12, 21:21
Hey guys, as someone who actually lives & works around Texas Rangers, I assure you this is a sidearm adoption in name only. :rolleyes:
Texas DPS (the Ranger's parent agency) probably swung an incredible deal on their next procurement of 226s & 229s for the state troopers in exchange for this "adoption".
Rangers have a STRONG tendency to carry personal sidearms almost to a man, & they don't say Sig on them, except a few that like their 357s. The huge majority of them carry 1911s that say Colt, Wilson, Baer, Brown, etc... on the side of them.
I venture that a Texas Ranger would probably die of embarassment to be caught carrying a Sig 1911.:rolleyes:
My TacOps has around 600 trouble free rounds through it.
Shooting yesterday put me just over of 1100 rounds through my TacOps. Not a problem feeding various ammunition, most of which are my reloads. It's been 100% so far.
brickboy240
10-29-12, 12:01
I live very close to the Houston DPS regional HQ which is the office for the Texas Ranger Company in this part of the state.
There is a Starbucks across the freeway from this office and since I go in there often, I see many Rangers in there, getting their caffeine fix in the many years i have been going in this place.
Of the ones I have seen...you are right...all are carrying 1911s but NONE have been SIGs. Actually almost all have been Colts and they appear to have been highly modified.
So yeah...I just don't see those guys giving up their custom modified Colts for SIG 1911s.
-brickboy240
I understand what you're both saying, but these guys are SWAT, SOG etc, so the best of what the TDPS/Texas Rangers has to offer. Wouldn't you think they're pretty experienced?
No.
For armorer support, I would hope they thought about this prior to adopting the guns.
I would be shocked to find out that forethought has anything to do with the operations of Texas DPS over the last several years. These are the same sensationalist asshats that bought 900-horse offshore boats equipped with LMGs for riverine patrol. Much of what they've been doing lately is damn near as stupid, selection of Sig handguns and Bushmaster rifles for guys who would presumably be the most likely in the agency to actually need a firearm is just another decision to add to the ever-expanding list of asinine, hair-brained stupid shit to come out of Texas DPS.
And "SOG", really?:rolleyes:
Littlelebowski
10-29-12, 15:52
No.
I would be shocked to find out that forethought has anything to do with the operations of Texas DPS over the last several years. These are the same sensationalist asshats that bought 900-horse offshore boats equipped with LMGs for riverine patrol. Much of what they've been doing lately is damn near as stupid, selection of Sig handguns and Bushmaster rifles for guys who would presumably be the most likely in the agency to actually need a firearm is just another decision to add to the ever-expanding list of asinine, hair-brained stupid shit to come out of Texas DPS.
And "SOG", really?:rolleyes:
Agreed on all, particularly the least. They think they're soldiers and not just regular soldiers but "operators."
MountainRaven
10-29-12, 15:53
And "SOG", really?:rolleyes:
It is Texas.
Littlelebowski
10-29-12, 15:59
It is Texas.
That it is. (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=113805196)
No.
I would be shocked to find out that forethought has anything to do with the operations of Texas DPS over the last several years. These are the same sensationalist asshats that bought 900-horse offshore boats equipped with LMGs for riverine patrol. Much of what they've been doing lately is damn near as stupid, selection of Sig handguns and Bushmaster rifles for guys who would presumably be the most likely in the agency to actually need a firearm is just another decision to add to the ever-expanding list of asinine, hair-brained stupid shit to come out of Texas DPS.
And "SOG", really?:rolleyes:
So you're saying their SWAT guys aren't experienced and that there isn't a shooting standard in the unit or...?
Sounds to me like he's implying that these peace officers are skewing what their duties are. I'd somewhat agree.
Magic_Salad0892
10-29-12, 22:51
I'd be more likely to say that the people in charge are skewing what the officers duties are.
So you're saying their SWAT guys aren't experienced and that there isn't a shooting standard in the unit or...?
I'm saying exactly what I said. But since you want exposition (though I suspect you are just trolling), here's a more in depth answer:
On the "No." answer I was responding to your baiting question directed at Grant when he stated that the 1911 was an "experienced user only" weapon and that he didn't think even SWAT cops had the requisite level of experience because even they aren't typically "gun guys." A 1911 requires a fairly decent degree of self-armorer ability on the part of the end user. Most of the stuff is pretty easy for gun guys, but practically zero cops (even the "SWAT" "SOG":rolleyes: variety) are "gun guys." And to your question: No, I don't think the "besties" the Texas DPS has to offer have that level of experience.
The rest of my comment about the public exhibition of profound stupid that is everything the Texas DPS has done for years shouldn't require any explanation at all. They are a parody and it would be hilarious if it weren't for the fact that these dipshits are a major law enforcement agency and they've spent years destroying the reputation of what used to be one of the best state-level agencies in the country with their swaggering hick shit.
Does that about wrap it up for ya?
I'm saying exactly what I said. But since you want exposition (though I suspect you are just trolling), here's a more in depth answer:
On the "No." answer I was responding to your baiting question directed at Grant when he stated that the 1911 was an "experienced user only" weapon and that he didn't think even SWAT cops had the requisite level of experience because even they aren't typically "gun guys." A 1911 requires a fairly decent degree of self-armorer ability on the part of the end user. Most of the stuff is pretty easy for gun guys, but practically zero cops (even the "SWAT" "SOG":rolleyes: variety) are "gun guys." And to your question: No, I don't think the "besties" the Texas DPS has to offer have that level of experience.
The rest of my comment about the public exhibition of profound stupid that is everything the Texas DPS has done for years shouldn't require any explanation at all. They are a parody and it would be hilarious if it weren't for the fact that these dipshits are a major law enforcement agency and they've spent years destroying the reputation of what used to be one of the best state-level agencies in the country with their swaggering hick shit.
Does that about wrap it up for ya?
If I were trolling, I would do a better job of it. Thanks for the explanation.
If I were trolling, I would do a better job of it. Thanks for the explanation.
No problem dude.:dirol:
Tons. Do some some searching around the net.
With that said, they have gotten better as they have gone along.
Any 1911 you buy for under $1800 is going to be full of MIM parts and will only be built as well as the gunsmith that did it THAT DAY. So you could have two guns come out of a factory the same day. One will run and the other won't. Why? One pistolsmith is better than the other.
C4
I have done a lot of searching on the net, regarding the Sig 1911XO and TacOps (same gun, TacOps has some minor upgrades). In 4 days of searching, I have yet to read one negative review about the Sigs. I have read professional reviews (not that they ever give bad marks to a gun anyways) and reviews from private owners. All have been more than satisfied.
I'm not sure where all the negativity about the Sig 1911 is coming from other than you need to justify your decision to buy a $1800 gun. I understand and agree that the more expensive guns will be more refined, but that doesn't mean $700 to $800 guns are junk.
Have you even shot a Sig 1911?
Also found this on MIM parts.
http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/general-firearm-discussion/125106-what-wilson-combat-thinks-mim-parts-1911s.html
Poor choice in my estimation. I've owned a TacOps and it was quite a basket case. Even with the big issues solved it still had extractor tension issues. 10-8 Performance blaims the external extractor geometry as the culprit. Mine ejected all over the place including my forehead on a consistent basis. I can think of alot of guns I would want on my side ahead of a Sig 1911. I'm affraid this is going to be an expensive lesson learned on their part.
I have done a lot of searching on the net, regarding the Sig 1911XO and TacOps (same gun, TacOps has some minor upgrades). In 4 days of searching, I have yet to read one negative review about the Sigs. I have read professional reviews (not that they ever give bad marks to a gun anyways) and reviews from private owners. All have been more than satisfied.
I'm not sure where all the negativity about the Sig 1911 is coming from other than you need to justify your decision to buy a $1800 gun. I understand and agree that the more expensive guns will be more refined, but that doesn't mean $700 to $800 guns are junk.
Have you even shot a Sig 1911?
My info doesn't come from the net. Mine comes from 1911 pistolsmiths reviewing the gun and from my own personal review of the gun.
Most gun owners:
A. Don't ever shoot their guns.
B. Don't attend training with their guns.
C. Shoot enough rounds to ever find a problem.
So you cannot really trust random internet posts from people you don't know.
With that out of they way, SIG 1911's have improved from when they first came out to today. The fact still remains that the 1911 is NOT a plug N play gun and it is ONLY AS GOOD as the pistolsmith that put it together and when you are talking about cheap 1911's, they spend VERY LITTLE TIME ON THE BENCH.
In regards to MIM, there is good and then there is bad. In cheap 1911's you are more likely going to see the bad than the good.
If you own one or want to own one as a range toy/collection/etc, I would say drive on! There is no way in HELL that I would choose one to bet my life on.
YMMV.
C4
"Most gun owners:
A. Don't ever shoot their guns.
B. Don't attend training with their guns.
C. Shoot enough rounds to ever find a problem."
Unfortunately you can add some LEO in that. Well said Grant.
My info doesn't come from the net. Mine comes from 1911 pistolsmiths reviewing the gun and from my own personal review of the gun.
Most gun owners:
A. Don't ever shoot their guns.
B. Don't attend training with their guns.
C. Shoot enough rounds to ever find a problem.
So you cannot really trust random internet posts from people you don't know.
With that out of they way, SIG 1911's have improved from when they first came out to today. The fact still remains that the 1911 is NOT a plug N play gun and it is ONLY AS GOOD as the pistolsmith that put it together and when you are talking about cheap 1911's, they spend VERY LITTLE TIME ON THE BENCH.
In regards to MIM, there is good and then there is bad. In cheap 1911's you are more likely going to see the bad than the good.
If you own one or want to own one as a range toy/collection/etc, I would say drive on! There is no way in HELL that I would choose one to bet my life on.
YMMV.
C4
So originally your suggestion was to "do some searching around the net". So thats what I did and now that the source of info you suggested doesn't substantiate your claim, its no good? Interesting.
Well, I did some more searching and came across 1911forum.com. On the board, there is a guy that actualy works for SIG, screen name Custom2 and he had some pretty good info. So, yes most manufacturers use MIM parts, especially in production guns. Your claim that the SIG is full of MIM parts is false according to him. He actually named the MIM parts, in a thread on this very subject dated 2011. http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=320047 So I PM'd him and he confirmed to me the parts are the same.
I am not arguing that the likes of Baer, Wilson, NightHawk and others are not top of the line. They are and will be much better quality than any production gun. But to sit here and tell people that this gun or that gun is junk based merely on the fact it cost less than $1800 is complete bullshit. Especially when story after story, review after review shows you to be wrong.
I'm done with this back and forth and will relent to letting you have the last word.
GCP1, remember where you are. Folks in this thread are absolutely prostrating over this DPS decision. They never saw a Sig they didn't hate. They will denigrate Sig for "quality issues" then recommend Glock. They will castigate you for buying a rifle not "built to a standard" then tell you to smear Frog Lube on it. Holy ****. Just take what you can use and leave the rest.
Littlelebowski
11-02-12, 06:33
GCP1, remember where you are. Folks in this thread are absolutely prostrating over this DPS decision. They never saw a Sig they didn't hate. They will denigrate Sig for "quality issues" then recommend Glock. They will castigate you for buying a rifle not "built to a standard" then tell you to smear Frog Lube on it. Holy ****. Just take what you can use and leave the rest.
Oh, the humanity!
So originally your suggestion was to "do some searching around the net". So thats what I did and now that the source of info you suggested doesn't substantiate your claim, its no good? Interesting.
Well, I did some more searching and came across 1911forum.com. On the board, there is a guy that actualy works for SIG, screen name Custom2 and he had some pretty good info. So, yes most manufacturers use MIM parts, especially in production guns. Your claim that the SIG is full of MIM parts is false according to him. He actually named the MIM parts, in a thread on this very subject dated 2011. http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=320047 So I PM'd him and he confirmed to me the parts are the same.
I am not arguing that the likes of Baer, Wilson, NightHawk and others are not top of the line. They are and will be much better quality than any production gun. But to sit here and tell people that this gun or that gun is junk based merely on the fact it cost less than $1800 is complete bullshit. Especially when story after story, review after review shows you to be wrong.
I'm done with this back and forth and will relent to letting you have the last word.
Ok, but it seems like you're looking at this from a different context. Your POV seems to be from an owner of a Sig 1911, which is fine. But the original question was more is the Sig 1911 the best choice for a duty weapon?
GCP1, remember where you are. Folks in this thread are absolutely prostrating over this DPS decision. They never saw a Sig they didn't hate. They will denigrate Sig for "quality issues" then recommend Glock. They will castigate you for buying a rifle not "built to a standard" then tell you to smear Frog Lube on it. Holy ****. Just take what you can use and leave the rest.
That's not entirely true. In fact, I own a Sig P226 that's a really nice weapon. I have stated in the past and still maintain that in some ways, I think it suits me better than my Glock. But there is no question that for most people, a Glock is an easier gun to shoot and a much easier gun to take care of.
Regarding the Sig 1911, as I said above, the question was whether or not that was the best choice. Now, Buckshot TX stated earlier that it's an adoption in name only so that TDPS can get better price positioning on the classic series Sigs they issue. If so, it doesn't matter for them, but the question still remains that in the world of 1911s, is it the best choice for a duty or carry weapon or is an LEA or even an individual better served spending a little more and getting a Springfield TRP or Dan Wesson or Les Baer.
scoutchris
11-02-12, 15:13
50 bucks says someone got their dick sucked to make this happen, just like ****ing ACU's.
This. And add berets to that list.
Ok, but it seems like you're looking at this from a different context. Your POV seems to be from an owner of a Sig 1911, which is fine. But the original question was more is the Sig 1911 the best choice for a duty weapon?............
Actually, I've never owned a Sig. My carry gun is an HK P2000 in 9mm, which also uses MIM parts and I would be willing to put my HK against any gun for an endurance test, but I digress. So after reading all of the things about the Sig 1911, I went and put some money down on one. Hell, after I put it through its paces I might even make it my carry gun. :dirol:
Leprechaun
11-07-12, 11:25
First let me say Sig's quality has fallen off greatly over the last 5-6 years.It is SLOWLY coming back though.Not exactly where it needs to be in any way shape or form.
Been using the Sig 1911 for the last 3 years.The first production models of the Tac Ops were not very good.We had the sights fall off 5 of 8 guns and most did not feed right. Sent them back to SIG.they got fixed because the right 'Smith got ahold of them. The new production versions have had some very slight mods and run as well as any other 1911.Not a single issue with any.
My original Tac Ops has been running like a sewing machine for the last 2 1/2 years.
I do have to say the factory Sig 1911 mags suck ass.they are junk and we have all switched to wilsons.They are IMO the best mags out there.
So originally your suggestion was to "do some searching around the net". So thats what I did and now that the source of info you suggested doesn't substantiate your claim, its no good? Interesting.
Really so you looked in every single corner of the net for people having issues with SIG 1911's??? :rolleyes:
Well, I did some more searching and came across 1911forum.com. On the board, there is a guy that actualy works for SIG, screen name Custom2 and he had some pretty good info. So, yes most manufacturers use MIM parts, especially in production guns. Your claim that the SIG is full of MIM parts is false according to him. He actually named the MIM parts, in a thread on this very subject dated 2011. http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=320047 So I PM'd him and he confirmed to me the parts are the same.
There are only so many parts that can be MIM (FYI). Having one part this cheaply made MIM is too many IMHO. So "full of" means 2 or more. That might not sound like a lot, but they are in critical areas (generally).
I am not arguing that the likes of Baer, Wilson, NightHawk and others are not top of the line. They are and will be much better quality than any production gun. But to sit here and tell people that this gun or that gun is junk based merely on the fact it cost less than $1800 is complete bullshit. Especially when story after story, review after review shows you to be wrong.
All guns are perfect and beautiful sitting in a safe. So in this instance, all low end 1911's are perfect. Start running these low end 1911's through hard pistol classes and you will see what I am talking about.
I bet if you run a poll with SIG 1911 users and ask how many of them have fired 10,000rds (with half of that being shot in training classes), you would few to no takers.
C4
GCP1, remember where you are. Folks in this thread are absolutely prostrating over this DPS decision. They never saw a Sig they didn't hate. They will denigrate Sig for "quality issues" then recommend Glock. They will castigate you for buying a rifle not "built to a standard" then tell you to smear Frog Lube on it. Holy ****. Just take what you can use and leave the rest.
Actually, this thread has zero to do with SIG's 1911's. The simple fact that chose a 1911 is an error (no matter who made it).
Is the SIG 1911 "ok" I am sure it is. Can you get a good one out of them? I am sure you can. I just had one walk through my door that wouldn't run. Customer was pissed and SIG wouldn't support him. So now I have to fix it.
C4
Redmanfms,
Are you a cop?
Redmanfms,
Are you a cop?
No, I'm a citizen who pays attention.
I have a SIG Scorpion and Nightmare and both have been run hard when I have used them, the accuracy of the Nighmare is pheonominal (.55" CTC 15yds /5 rds) consistantly the Scorpion is not far behind. I have about 900rds through the Scorpion and 600 through the Nightmare and have had zero malfunctions or issues of any kind. That said, I clean/lube them after every range visit.
My carry gun is a Dan Wesson ECO (beautiful weapon) but the accuracy is not nearly as good as the SIG despite being very tight and well fitted.
All in all, I think SIG makes a very good 1911, at least the 2 I have are very nicely done. Not sure how they would hold up to the "do my best to break them" use, I suspect ok, perhaps some fresh springs.
Really dont get the blanket SIG hate, yes the rainbow, diamond plate bullshit is silly and I am not sure why they felt the need to go down that road but every company has turned out some trash on occasion.
TurretGunner
12-12-12, 10:39
SIG SAUER has been selected by the Texas Department of Public Safety’s (DPS) Special Operations Group (SOG) to provide .45 Auto 1911 TACOPs as the agency’s official sidearm.
The SOG is the tactical unit of the Texas DPS that includes the Texas Ranger Special Weapons and Tactics (SWAT) Team, the Texas Ranger Reconnaissance Team, and the Special Response Team.
The intensive testing process began when the group sought out a large-caliber handgun capable of making fast and accurate follow-up shots. After intensive endurance and environmental testing was concluded, the SIG SAUER 1911 TACOPs pistol was selected by the Texas Ranger SWAT Team. Since then, DPS SOG has authorized officers the option of carrying either the 1911 TACOPs or their duty issued SIG SAUER P226 DAK in .357SIG.
I hope their surveillance and recon skills are better then their ability to choose select quality fighting weapons.
Residents of Texas, Hide your dogs.
Residents of Texas, Hide your dogs.
And watch your speedometer...
It seems like there's a highway patrol for everyone down here in South TX. There's one behind every bush, under every overpass, in every turn-around, if you can see one in front of you, you can see one behind you... On both sides of the highway.
I always find it odd that the guys on the special tactics team, who do most of their shooting with long guns, get the "higher end" pistol and the guys out on the beat get the standard issue department mandated pistol when they tend to so most of their shooting with the pistol.
They should all get the same pistol, and if they want something else it should be on them to pay for it. If the guy is a gun guy, he'll pick a good gun. If not, he'll stick with the department gun.
But then again, they all may need a good pistol if they're getting issued Bushmasters...
I always find it odd that the guys on the special tactics team, who do most of their shooting with long guns, get the "higher end" pistol and the guys out on the beat get the standard issue department mandated pistol when they tend to so most of their shooting with the pistol.
They should all get the same pistol, and if they want something else it should be on them to pay for it. If the guy is a gun guy, he'll pick a good gun. If not, he'll stick with the department gun.
But then again, they all may need a good pistol if they're getting issued Bishmasters...
They're ****in' traffic cops. Who cares what they have??
Magic_Salad0892
12-18-12, 05:00
They're ****in' traffic cops. Who cares what they have??
That doesn't make their life less valuable if something bad just happens to occur near them. I don't think anybody deserves to bet their life on a gun that might not work.
They're ****in' traffic cops. Who cares what they have??
The HRT/SRT/SWAT guys are usually the LAST ones to an active shoote incident. First ones there? "F*ckin" traffic cops.
Give them a good gun.
C4
Littlelebowski
12-18-12, 08:44
They're ****in' traffic cops. Who cares what they have??
Wow...... Personally, I'd rather see better trained cops on the beat than SWAT guys.
Voodoo_Man
12-18-12, 09:03
@samuse, where do you think elite tactical super swat hrt, upside down rope repelling from a helo come from? You think they are just magically made in a lab? You think swat hrt or whatever drive around in full kit for eight to twelve hrs a day looking for barricaded persons?
Wake up. "Traffic cops" run every department. They are the backbone, they are patrol. They are the first in and many times last out, they not only have the hardest police job but the greatest to contribute. Every department should be so lucky as to have dedicated "traffic cops" that would take the time put a rifle together and learn how use it.
Who was first in the towers on 9/11 next to fifefighters? How about columbine? Every mall shooting and school massacre. North hollywood shootout ring a bell?
The ignorance of the blatantly simple is astounding, no wonder they will no doubt succeed in a ban.
mikelowrey
12-18-12, 09:20
They're ****in' traffic cops. Who cares what they have??
Those "****in" traffic cops are the ones who answer your 911 call when you need help.
Those "****in" traffic cops are the ones who will do the ultimate sacrifice to help you.
Those "****in" traffic cops are the ones who without knowing you, took an oath to protect a serve YOU & the rest of the community.
Those "****in" traffic cops are the ones who every time they go to work, they say goodbye to their families not knowing if they will come back home.
You want me to keep going? I think you need to think before you type something so disrespectful and in case you forgot we are the front line when the SHTF and some people like you including upper ranks do not see that when we need the right tools to get the job done.
You should be ashamed of yourself.
Those "****in" traffic cops are the ones who answer your 911 call when you need help.
DPS? No. A sherrif may show up an hour or so later, but not the DPS..
Those "****in" traffic cops are the ones who will do the ultimate sacrifice to help you.
Texas DPS help? Please...
Those "****in" traffic cops are the ones who without knowing you, took an oath to protect a serve YOU & the rest of the community.
No, they didn't.
Those "****in" traffic cops are the ones who every time they go to work, they say goodbye to their families not knowing if they will come back home.
That's the game they play.
You want me to keep going? I think you need to think before you type something so disrespectful and in case you forgot we are the front line when the SHTF and some people like you including upper ranks do not see that when we need the right tools to get the job done.
You should be ashamed of yourself.
Where are you from? The Texas DPS doesn't help anyone.
FWIW, I'm friends with and shoot with a lot of city and county LEO, some CBP, Border Patrol and even a Marshall or two. So I'm not anti-LE, the Texas DPS is just so full of itself it makes me sick.
mikelowrey
12-18-12, 10:23
Where are you from? The Texas DPS doesn't help anyone.
FWIW, I'm friends with and shoot with a lot of city and county LEO, some CBP, Border Patrol and even a Marshall or two. So I'm not anti-LE, the Texas DPS is just so full of itself it makes me sick.
Am not from Texas, but the issue that I "saw" here is that you used the term COP, so with that term I assumed that those officers (DPS) do the same thing I do, and for a second you know I felt really bad on what you have said. Am not aware of what is that DPS specifically do (I admit I haven't done the research) but I just wanted to highlight some of the things that we "general" do (which you already know).
Besides, like others have said. Let them have the gun guns they are still risking their life and the deserve the good thing.
Again, not mad at you, and good to know you shoot with fellow brothers.
I don't know how DPS works but in most places your SWAT/HRT/SOG/etc ARE traffic/patrol cops when not specifically called out for an incident. All cops should have a decent gun and at least enough training to become and stay proficient.
Where are you from? The Texas DPS doesn't help anyone.
FWIW, I'm friends with and shoot with a lot of city and county LEO, some CBP, Border Patrol and even a Marshall or two. So I'm not anti-LE, the Texas DPS is just so full of itself it makes me sick.
While not from TX, I've lived there while in the military for several years, and I've interacted with DPS and various local police in my profession. My experience with TX DPS is similar to any other of the various states that I've lived in with a highway patrol. The DPS troopers (yes, they carry that title out of the academy) seem to be a little cut above most municipal police forces in TX. I attribute this to the fact that DPS trainees attend a live-in academy which seems to produce a more polished product than most day academies. They also seem to maintain fitness standards a little better since it is rare to see an obese trooper. Again, this is a trend that I notice across the nation as a rigorous live-in academy does a great job of separating the wheat from the shaft.
In other words, they are like all other state highway patrol agencies - a well trained paramilitary organization that does a good job at their primary mission of enforcing highway laws, safety, and investigating crimes related to transportation across TX. Most of this primary mission is carried out in the more rural areas of TX with poor county or municipal resources. Thus, it is very possible that DPS troopers would be the first LEOs on the scene at a rural school shooting just like what happened in CT last week with the CT State Troopers. They also have secondary missions of providing the state executive protection, EOD disposal, helo rescue, marine unit, capitol protection, some border enforcement, etc.
They are not, however, a state police agency. That means that the investigation of major crimes falls on their sister organization WITHIN the DPS - the TX Rangers. Thus, it is not surprising that the Rangers draw their ranks from the best performing troopers within the DPS organization. While TX gives a distinctive name to is state investigative agency, this model is actually similar to other states such as NC, SC, GA, etc. that divide state law enforcement into 2 separate agencies - one for highway crimes and another for major investigative work. For example, NC has a Highway Patrol which focuses on interdicting traffic crime, and a State Bureau of Investigation which handles major criminal investigations into fraud, OIS, internet crimes, etc. Other states such as VA, Mass, NY combine these duties into a single state police where troopers typically start on the highway, and can progress in their careers to investigators if they wish.
Bottom line, TX DPS does a great job helping the law abiding citizens of TX just like every other state's HP. I suppose the people who get the least "help" are the one most intent on breaking the law…;)
They're ****in' traffic cops. Who cares what they have??
First off, I apologize that my comment sparked such a debate when I had no intention of doing so. It was merely just an observation on my part.
Second, you better watch what you say here. I'm willing to bet a good number of members on this forum are what you consider to be just a "****ing traffic cop".
Second, you better watch what you say here. I'm willing to bet a good number of members on this forum are what you consider to be just a "****ing traffic cop".
I know that and no disrespect meant toward them.
I just don't understand the hard-on people get over the TX DPS. Like they're some lawmen fighting the good fight or something. Not really, they hide out where you can't see 'em and pop you for 5 over out in the boonies.
And they're generally dick heads.
TurretGunner
12-18-12, 16:36
If police officers don't like the equipment and training they recieve, they are free to seek it on their own.
If they don't, they are free to find another job where they generally they would make much less money, work longer hours unpaid and will require much more education.
I find myself not having very much symapthy.
TurretGunner
12-18-12, 16:37
While not from TX, I've lived there while in the military for several years, and I've interacted with DPS and various local police in my profession. My experience with TX DPS is similar to any other of the various states that I've lived in with a highway patrol. The DPS troopers (yes, they carry that title out of the academy) seem to be a little cut above most municipal police forces in TX. I attribute this to the fact that DPS trainees attend a live-in academy which seems to produce a more polished product than most day academies. They also seem to maintain fitness standards a little better since it is rare to see an obese trooper. Again, this is a trend that I notice across the nation as a rigorous live-in academy does a great job of separating the wheat from the shaft.
In other words, they are like all other state highway patrol agencies - a well trained paramilitary organization that does a good job at their primary mission of enforcing highway laws, safety, and investigating crimes related to transportation across TX. Most of this primary mission is carried out in the more rural areas of TX with poor county or municipal resources. Thus, it is very possible that DPS troopers would be the first LEOs on the scene at a rural school shooting just like what happened in CT last week with the CT State Troopers. They also have secondary missions of providing the state executive protection, EOD disposal, helo rescue, marine unit, capitol protection, some border enforcement, etc.
They are not, however, a state police agency. That means that the investigation of major crimes falls on their sister organization WITHIN the DPS - the TX Rangers. Thus, it is not surprising that the Rangers draw their ranks from the best performing troopers within the DPS organization. While TX gives a distinctive name to is state investigative agency, this model is actually similar to other states such as NC, SC, GA, etc. that divide state law enforcement into 2 separate agencies - one for highway crimes and another for major investigative work. For example, NC has a Highway Patrol which focuses on interdicting traffic crime, and a State Bureau of Investigation which handles major criminal investigations into fraud, OIS, internet crimes, etc. Other states such as VA, Mass, NY combine these duties into a single state police where troopers typically start on the highway, and can progress in their careers to investigators if they wish.
Bottom line, TX DPS does a great job helping the law abiding citizens of TX just like every other state's HP. I suppose the people who get the least "help" are the one most intent on breaking the law…;)
I find every state's Highwaypatrol/ state troopers to be the most useless of all LEO's and the biggest waste of resources. They are revenue generating agencies that could care less about reducing crime or real police work.
In addition to the Texas Rangers, TXDPS also has a Criminal Investigative Division which handles a wide variety of crimes. CID is actually larger than the Rangers.
Regarding the TACOPS pistols, "Tactical Weapons" had an article on the selection of SOG pistols in the September issue. According to the article, TXDPS only purchased twenty-five of the pistols for issue to the Texas Ranger SWAT team. Two hundred engraved pistols were privately purchased by TXDPS personnel. SOG personnel supposedly have the option of carrying either the TACOPS or their SIG 226DAK.
The reasoning behind the purchase was supposedly that the SIG 226DAK "not as easy to use when it is necessary to deliver fast follow-up shots". (Jeesh, I could have told them that.) Additionally, it was felt that the 357SIG round "is capable of over-penetrating" building material which would be more of a concern for a unit doing tasked with building entries than it would before other DPS units.
Perhaps a somewhat wiser weapons choice was the adoption of LaRue Tactical OBR's for the Ranger SWAT team, tactical flight officers, and, in lesser numbers, to other SOG elements.
As you might expect from a gun-zine review, the TACOPS, the SIG DAK, and the OBR all function flawlessly. (No mention of the Bushmasters, interestingly enough.)
I find every state's Highwaypatrol/ state troopers to be the most useless of all LEO's and the biggest waste of resources. They are revenue generating agencies that could care less about reducing crime or real police work.
It sounds like you and samuse have a lot in common. :rolleyes:
Magic_Salad0892
12-19-12, 18:32
I'd like to take a minute and thank everybody in this thread (and on this board) who has chosen a career in law enforcement.
You're brave souls, you are.
I know that and no disrespect meant toward them.
I just don't understand the hard-on people get over the TX DPS. Like they're some lawmen fighting the good fight or something. Not really, they hide out where you can't see 'em and pop you for 5 over out in the boonies.
And they're generally dick heads.
I am a Peace Officer in Texas. Yes some are dick heads, I know a lot of them. However, I would like to submit this for your consideration. When you go out every day and work long hours and risk your life doing a job where you have to deal with assholes like you all day, you wouldn't be to friendly either.
More bad guys are caught by "****ing traffic cops" than anybody else. Traffic is how WE find violators, I can't tell you how many arrests I have gotten and dope I have seized off of traffic stops.
I don't care if they ban me for this, someone has to say it.
Your to stupid to talk, I think I lost some brain cells just reading your posts. If you just want to spout dumb shit go join some liberal pro Obama site.
Now if you will excuse me I need some sleep, I have to be up at 4am so I can go stop some poor innocent speeders.
TurretGunner
12-23-12, 23:14
I am a Peace Officer in Texas. Yes some are dick heads, I know a lot of them. However, I would like to submit this for your consideration. When you go out every day and work long hours and risk your life doing a job where you have to deal with assholes like you all day, you wouldn't be to friendly either.
More bad guys are caught by "****ing traffic cops" than anybody else. Traffic is how WE find violators, I can't tell you how many arrests I have gotten and dope I have seized off of traffic stops.
I don't care if they ban me for this, someone has to say it.
Your to stupid to talk, I think I lost some brain cells just reading your posts. If you just want to spout dumb shit go join some liberal pro Obama site.
Now if you will excuse me I need some sleep, I have to be up at 4am so I can go stop some poor innocent speeders.
I shouldnt say this but I will.
Stop pretending like you are some unsung hero doing a job for pennies with your life on the line. LEOS are in general , VERY highly paid for their level of education and skillset. There arent many jobs where you dont need a degree or some specialized skill, and can still pull 60-120K a year. Furthermore not everyone sees you taking dope off the street or restricting non violent "criminals" as a service to society. The NUMBER 1 job of police is to protect the public, yet when seconds count, the police are minutes away. I am not trying bash LEO's yes it can be a hard job and yes you can get injured.........but so are many others.
I have ALOT of friends and family who are police officers, and almost all of them get paid much more than they are worth. Stop pretending like police aren't highly compensated for this abnormaly high risk you think they incur compared to many other jobs. I wish I got paid 120K a year while dodging IED's and being a Human Target to draw fire from Haji. I also didnt get to go home to my family every night or sleep in a warm bed, or even get a hot shower.
SeriousStudent
12-23-12, 23:41
This thread isn't about 1911's anymore, is it?
dwhitehorne
12-24-12, 07:28
Wow! Talk about thread drift. David
I shouldnt say this but I will.
Stop pretending like you are some unsung hero doing a job for pennies with your life on the line. LEOS are in general , VERY highly paid for their level of education and skillset. There arent many jobs where you dont need a degree or some specialized skill, and can still pull 60-120K a year. Furthermore not everyone sees you taking dope off the street or restricting non violent "criminals" as a service to society. The NUMBER 1 job of police is to protect the public, yet when seconds count, the police are minutes away. I am not trying bash LEO's yes it can be a hard job and yes you can get injured.........but so are many others.
I have ALOT of friends and family who are police officers, and almost all of them get paid much more than they are worth. Stop pretending like police aren't highly compensated for this abnormaly high risk you think they incur compared to many other jobs. I wish I got paid 120K a year while dodging IED's and being a Human Target to draw fire from Haji. I also didnt get to go home to my family every night or sleep in a warm bed, or even get a hot shower.
Stop pretending like police aren't highly compensated for this abnormaly high risk you think they incur compared to many other jobs. I wish I got paid 120K a year while dodging IED's and being a Human Target to draw fire from Haji. I also didnt get to go home to my family every night or sleep in a warm bed, or even get a hot shower.
I think you forget or underestimate how many of us have been there as well or are still also serving in areas like that. At this point, I'd move on as your post are beginning to portray you as having a chip on your shoulder and superiority complex.
militarymoron
12-24-12, 11:53
the next post that's off the original topic gets this thread locked.
I have ALOT of friends and family who are police officers, and almost all of them get paid much more than they worth.
I would argue you really aren't their friends and you're a pretty poor excuse for family if this is how you talk about them to strangers. I know if I found out you felt this way about me and communicated it to others you wouldn't be either to me.
brushy bill
01-04-13, 22:01
I would argue you really aren't their friends and you're a pretty poor excuse for family if this is how you talk about them to strangers. I know if I found out you felt this way about me and communicated it to others you wouldn't be either to me.
Did you bother to read the post above yours?
Amp Mangum
01-18-13, 14:03
Hilton Yam just did a review:
http://modernserviceweapons.com/?p=1673#more-1673
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