Ballistic gelatin tests

[AndrewWiggin]

Proper ballistic gelatin is made from 250 bloom photographer's gelatin. Problem is, that stuff is fairly expensive. According to Vyse Vyse (http://vyse.com/documents/ProfessionBallistic-Ordnance120108-1.pdf), the gelatin they use is 250 +/- 5, whereas food gelatin is typically 250 +/- 10. There are also variations in other metrics, which you can read about at the link. While these variations may invalidate tests for a ballistics lab, I feel that the results should be close enough as to be useful for the layman to get a general idea of how certain loads perform, especially with cartridges such as the 10mm where there just isn't hardly any good, professional data available. At the very least, the data collected should be far more relevant than water or wet pack and probably more accurate than Simtest or Cleargel. I have verified this by shooting my gelatin with a factory Speer Gold Dot 180 gr .40 S&W and a 75 gr PPU BTHP. In the former case, the result was practically identical to a published FBI test and in the latter case, the results were nearly identical to Molon's test of the same cartridge. I used grocery store gelatin and had to do some fiddling to get the mix right but was eventually able to get consistent calibration results. Proper calibration is a .177 BB fired at 590 fps +/- 15 fps into a 40 degree block of gelatin. Penetration should fall between 2.95" and 3.75". I initially had some trouble getting the right velocity out of my BB gun but I think I've got it figured out now. The following tests are reposted from another forum.





The first calibration shot will be 586.4 fps (a touch low) and 3.5". The 10mm shots are taken through 4 layers of denim using an EAA Witness 4.5" barrel.

First up is 180 gr XTP over 11.8gr of AA#7, 2.255" COL, at a measured impact velocity of 1,290. Penetration is 13.25". It exited the first block and went a about an inch and a quarter into the second block. Next time I'll have to cut the blocks even so there is no air space between them. I don't know how much, if any, effect that has. You can see that this bullet fragmented a bit. I was going to weigh the recovered fragments, but the piece you see in the on picture got left out there. Sorry. Maximum expansion is 0.898" and minimum is 0.636". Retained weight is 174.8 gr.

http://youtu.be/XahzIeDo1Vk


http://imageshack.us/a/img194/2784/dsc03750z.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img607/702/dsc03775m.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img18/2030/dsc03776ih.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img441/6956/dsc03778to.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img546/2889/dsc03764st.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img337/3027/dsc03788dc.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img528/6717/dsc03789w.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img254/9752/dsc03790pn.jpg



Since the XTP barely touched the second block, I reversed it and placed it at the front. Next up is 165 gr Gold Dot over 12.3 gr of AA#7, 2.255". I missed the actual impact velocity of this shot but the average for this load is 1,310 fps. Penetration was 12". This shot exited the first block and was found laying between the two. There was absolutely no fragmentation or jacket separation. These Gold Dots are TOUGH. Maximum expansion was 0.837" and minimum was 0.779". Retained weight was 165.0gr.

http://youtu.be/FR14jBsZpWk


http://imageshack.us/a/img545/6951/dsc03752a.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img802/4822/dsc03757l.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img803/1999/dsc03758a.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img191/6202/dsc03760t.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img17/915/dsc03782r.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img715/5126/dsc03783d.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img201/1310/dsc03785dd.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img196/6964/dsc03786eu.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img254/250/dsc03787y.jpg

[AndrewWiggin]

BB calibration was 603.4 fps and 3.5"

http://imageshack.us/a/img26/3774/dsc03792dr.jpg


I fired two rounds of factory .40 S&W 180gr Speer Gold Dot from a Glock 22 into one block. In the photo, the top round had an impact velocity of 1,027 fps and the bottom round had an impact velocity of 988.0 fps. They penetrated 11.25" and 15" respectively. Both were fired through four layers of denim. One bullet literally stopped between the two blocks. I'll post pics and measurements of recovered bullets after I melt the blocks down.

http://imageshack.us/a/img196/481/dsc03800y.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img580/212/dsc03797oo.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img515/3623/dsc03802lb.jpg


Next up was my hand loaded 65gr SGK over 24.0gr of TAC (this is a 5.56mm pressure load), which had an impact velocity of 2,808 fps and penetrated 12". I also fired a 75gr Prvi Partisan BTHP into the block that had been shot by .40 already but I don't have any good pictures. I'm also not really confident the results are very relevant considering the block had already been shot twice. I didn't get the impact velocity but I did do a five shot average which was 2,670 fps. It penetrated 14".

http://imageshack.us/a/img811/2672/dsc03803l.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img547/88/dsc03804e.jpg



Finally, I fired one of the 65gr hand loads into a steel plate located about 6-8" from the gelatin to see how bad the fragmentation from a steel plate is. The first pic is before I rinsed the dirt off.


http://imageshack.us/a/img834/707/dsc03805qp.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img850/2192/dsc03806go.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img404/7472/dsc03813z.jpg

[AndrewWiggin]

http://youtu.be/gVccgbXxMcs

[AndrewWiggin]

The bullet that impacted at 988.0 fps and penetrated 15":

Min expansion: 0.705"
Max expansion: 0.805"
Retained weight: 178.0 gr

The bullet that impacted at 1,027 fps and penetrated 11.75":

Min expansion: 0.622"
Max expansion: 0.650"
Retained weight: 178.5 gr

The 65 gr 5.56mm hand load:

Min expansion: 0.412"
Max expansion: 0.547"
Retained weight: 34.9 gr

The 75 gr Prvi Partisan BTHP:

Min expansion: 0.355"
Max expansion: 0.594"
Retained weight: 46.4 gr


Wait, wut? BTHP bullets aren't supposed to expand. They usually yaw and then fragment but it sure as hell looks like this one expanded.

http://imageshack.us/a/img138/5116/dsc03824m.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img35/4465/dsc03826yd.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img9/161/dsc03829ej.jpg

[AndrewWiggin]

BB calibration was 597 fps and 3.25" for one block and 602 fps and 3.75" for the other block.

http://imageshack.us/a/img839/2174/dsc03846j.jpg


First up: 200 gr XTP over 8.1 gr of 800-X. I forgot to place the denim over the block for this test. At first I was pretty disappointed but I had intended for this load to be my woods load and critters don't usually wear clothes. From other tests I know that the XTP still performs through denim and generally JHPs seem to penetrate a bit less in bare gelatin. Anyway, it is what it is. Sorry I forgot. I'll definitely retest with the denim. The first shot had an impact velocity of 1,134 fps and penetrated 15.75". The second shot had an impact velocity of 1,142 fps and penetrated 15.5".

http://imageshack.us/a/img210/5739/dsc03847wq.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img840/3299/dsc03849h.jpg



Next is 180 gr Buffalo Bore. The first shot impacted at 1,335 fps and penetrated 14.5". The second shot impacted at 1,330 and I got distracted by something shiny and neglected to measure penetration.

http://imageshack.us/a/img546/3312/dsc03851ls.jpg


Next, I fired some Yugo M67 ball into a steel target, first with bare gelatin, then with denim covering. The first shot shows the effect of 3 shots on bare gelatin vs. one shot "protected" by denim.


http://imageshack.us/a/img703/9238/dsc03852e.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img688/2560/dsc03855u.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img201/238/dsc03856h.jpg


http://youtu.be/LNoKHNHuWQk

[AndrewWiggin]

200 gr XTP:

Bullet #1
Retained weight: 182.3 gr
Max expansion: 0.683"
Min expansion: 0.622"

Bullet #2
Retained weight: 187.8 gr
Max expansion: 0.690"
Min expansion: 0.601"



http://youtu.be/EPs2EsdmQS0

[AndrewWiggin]

180 gr Buffalo Bore:

Retained weight: 167.8 gr
Max expansion: 0.734"
Min expansion: 0.670"


http://youtu.be/a_m1hgY5-sc

[AndrewWiggin]

I retested the 200 gr XTP at a lower velocity and with the addition of denim. Good news: it goes plenty deep at this velocity when fired through denim. Bad news: it REALLY doesn't want to expand. All three shots failed to expand and only one came to a rest inside the gelatin. Unfortunately, because of this and because one of the Gold Dots left the side of the block, both blocks had been shot up pretty badly and really didn't give the opportunity to take any good pictures.

200 gr XTP @ 1,037 fps:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jc3_TaAldVo

http://imageshack.us/a/img716/653/dsc03919cy.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img405/9135/dsc03921l.jpg



180 gr Gold Dot @ 1,317 fps:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuGFfgZb5a0

http://imageshack.us/a/img338/612/dsc03916jx.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img694/3715/dsc03917t.jpg



Next up: 65 gr Sierra Game King hand load and 75 gr Prvi Partisan BTHP. Both from 11.5" AR. Unless I get distracted by something shiny.

[AndrewWiggin]

These are the promised 65 gr SGK and 75 gr PPU tests as well as a 10mm 180 gr BCSP. Data for each test is in the description on the YouTube page.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PtAG_6NQOQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTB0sfKF3ec

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wEAPXNAkxY

[AndrewWiggin]

More 10mm:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRkKoe3g9lA


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEqEC8mZLg0

[robfromsc]

Pretty cool series of tests. Can you post your gel mixture ? I've got some hand loads I'd like to test.

[AndrewWiggin]

It took some fiddling but I eventually settled on 48 oz of gelatin to 45 cups of hot water. Mix thoroughly and refrigerate. The next day you melt it down in a double boiler and pour into your molds, then refrigerate for at least three days. A few drops of Jet Dry will prevent foaming when you first mix it up. A few drops of cinnamon oil will make it clearer. A few drops of bleach will help prevent mold. The temperature in your refrigerator should be 40 degrees F. A .177 cal BB fired at 600 fps +/- 10 fps should penetrate no less than 3.25" and no more than 3.75". If it doesn't calibrate correctly after sitting in a 40 degree fridge for at least 3 days, you might adjust the density by adding water. With this in mind, it may be better for you to start at 43 cups and work up.

I have tested factory Speer Gold Dot and got nearly the same result as the FBI and I've tested 75 gr PPU and got essentially the same result as Molon.

[robfromsc]

Thanks. What gelatin... I barely stumble around the kitchen :eek:

[AndrewWiggin]

Sorry. I've used mostly Kroger brand unflavored gelatin but there's a few boxes of Knox in there.

If you can afford it, the proper stuff is 250A bloom photographer's gelatin and you can buy it from Vyse here: http://www.gelatininnovations.com/pages/ballistic_pur.html


I also note that my statement above about proper calibration is incorrect, according to the instructions from Vyse. They advise that a .177 cal steel BB should be fired at 590 fps +/- 15 fps and the depth should be between 2.95" and 3.75". That's what I get for trusting Wiki. Thankfully, that's not far off of what my calibrations have been so far so I think they are all going to be within that range too. It's actually a more forgiving range and the only place where my calibration might have been invalid was if I had a shot that was between 605 fps and 610 fps.

[robfromsc]

Thanks Andrew. The only thing I lack is the chronometer. Thanks for all the info!

[AndrewWiggin]

No problem. You definitely have to have one to get useful results. My BB gun is pretty erratic in velocity and if you don't know what speed your BB is at calibration has no meaning. You can get a Chrony for about a hundred bucks. I hope to see your tests soon.

[AndrewWiggin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISRj9Zb-pzY


http://imageshack.us/a/img40/6042/dsc04195ly.jpg


http://imageshack.us/a/img196/696/dsc04192f.jpg

[AndrewWiggin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiuvCMsPLGE


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTndHTYkXCc

[DeltaKilo]

Great stuff! May I have permission to crosspost this over to 1911 Forum (with full attribution), or invite you to post over there in the Ammo Can section?

[AndrewWiggin]

Sure, of course you can. I'd be happy to post over there but I already post on several firearm forums.

[DeltaKilo]

Sure, of course you can. I'd be happy to post over there but I already post on several firearm forums.

Thanks! Here's the thread in case you care:

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=391835

[AndrewWiggin]

Cool. I guess I'll go ahead and register there too. It's getting hard to keep track of all the various forums.

[AndrewWiggin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2JXFIRVPbc


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5KYnxDsEII

[bzdog]

BTW, thanks for this. I've always been underimpressed by normal DIY methods like newspaper and water jugs and it is nice to see someone come up with and share something better that is still cost effective and accessible.

Good work!

-john

[AndrewWiggin]

I've seen lots of tests where cartridges are tested through drywall into gelatin but I've wondered about the actual risk of "over penetration." I'm sure this has been tested but I hadn't seen it so I figured I would do it myself. I measured a skinny friend of mine by having him stand against a wall and hold a board over his chest, then measuring between the board and the wall on both sides. Turns out his chest is about 8" thick so I cut the gelatin to 8", placed it 6" from my "wall" and placed another gelatin block 6" on the other side of the "wall." Results are in the Youtube description.


.223 through drywall (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpBQYxGI9wI)


10mm Precision One 180 gr JHP (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbQd6F2jh0Q)


10MM Corbon 150 gr JHP (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guNV3RJcj9U)



I also tested 200 gr HAP over 8.3 gr of 800-X at 1,153 fps but I didn't get any video of it. Here are the numbers and pics, though:

Penetration: 19.4"
Weight retention: 198.1 gr
Max expansion: 0.623"
Min expansion: 0.442"

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/4191/img0351dg.jpg


http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/9083/img0376ef.jpg


http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/3336/img0378vj.jpg