View Full Version : Using an LLC to purchase NFA items
Before I pose my question, I want to say that I did start with the search bar and was not able to gather enough information.
So the question:
I own a Northern Virginia LLC and I am trying to find someone with credible information or experience purchasing NFA items (suppressor) using my LLC. My current attorney does not know anything about this operation.
Specifically, I'm looking to figure out the process of purchasing, legalities of ownership of these items by employees/members, and repercussions if they are used in a self defense situation.
Thank you in advance.
Sorry, I dont have an answer but I am interested in hearing this also.
A trust is a better route to have multiple people be able to be in possession in my opinion.
The problem with doing it through a LLC is that if the business would ever go under, or split etc, then you'd have to re-file the weapon with the ATF under a new name and pay yet another $200 tax stamp per NFA item.
+1 Exactly right.
A trust is a better route to have multiple people be able to be in possession in my opinion.
The problem with doing it through a LLC is that if the business would ever go under, or split etc, then you'd have to re-file the weapon with the ATF under a new name and pay yet another $200 tax stamp per NFA item.
DreadPirateMoyer
10-23-12, 16:22
A trust is a better route to have multiple people be able to be in possession in my opinion.
Unless you know the laws in VA, this is a blanket statement that you can't support. I wish people would stop with the freaking "trusts are better than LLCs" crap, especially considering LLCs offer a lot in certain states. Mine, for example, has no yearly fee or filing requirement (like trusts), allows multiple people to be in possesion (like trusts), lasts in perpetuity (unlike trusts), makes sales easier than trusts, and offers greater legal protection than trusts.
For a "no BS" forum, there sure is a whole lot of BS regarding LLCs and trusts. Unless you know the laws in the specific state in question, stop making statements like "X is better than Y."
Please explain how an NFA purchase with an LLC is easier than with a trust. I'm curious.
Unless you know the laws in VA, this is a blanket statement that you can't support. I wish people would stop with the freaking "trusts are better than LLCs" crap, especially considering LLCs offer a lot in certain states. Mine, for example, has no yearly fee or filing requirement (like trusts), allows multiple people to be in possesion (like trusts), lasts in perpetuity (unlike trusts), makes sales easier than trusts, and offers greater legal protection than trusts.
For a "no BS" forum, there sure is a whole lot of BS regarding LLCs and trusts. Unless you know the laws in the specific state in question, stop making statements like "X is better than Y."
everyusernametaken
10-23-12, 20:23
Unless you know the laws in VA, this is a blanket statement that you can't support. I wish people would stop with the freaking "trusts are better than LLCs" crap, especially considering LLCs offer a lot in certain states. Mine, for example, has no yearly fee or filing requirement (like trusts), allows multiple people to be in possesion (like trusts), lasts in perpetuity (unlike trusts), makes sales easier than trusts, and offers greater legal protection than trusts.
For a "no BS" forum, there sure is a whole lot of BS regarding LLCs and trusts. Unless you know the laws in the specific state in question, stop making statements like "X is better than Y."
VA is one of the places where a trust is generally the preferred route, so in addressing the OP's question, there is no "BS" in suggesting they look into a trust. More importantly, there are potential legal implications for transferring ownership of NFA items to an existing LLC, or even a trust, which already has non-firearm property. At the end of the day, someone in the OP's position really needs to discuss this with an attorney who is qualified to advise them.
I'm also wondering how an LLC makes transfers "easier" and provides legal protection.
DreadPirateMoyer
10-23-12, 20:26
It's possible to sell the LLC as a whole, which carries its assets with it. Granted, it requires selling the entire LLC and all its assets, meaning you can't piecemeal it, but it doesn't require the 6 month process on behalf of the purchaser to purchase an LLC with NFA assets.
Source: Phil Kline, the leading NFA lawyer in PA, who can be contacted on PAFOA under the name "Gunlawyer001."
I used a LLC to buy NFA at one time.
It was easy. As mentioned there were no yearly fees, etc.
DreadPirateMoyer
10-23-12, 21:25
Please explain how an NFA purchase with an LLC is easier than with a trust. I'm curious.
I didn't say purchasing was easier. I said selling was, for the reasons listed above.
To get the thread back on topic (sorry for the derail), everyuser's advice is sound, in my opinion. I'm not a lawyer, OP, but if your LLC already has non-NFA asssets, purchasing NFA items with the same LLC may expose those non-NFA assets to risk. His best advice was getting a lawyer, or in your case, a new/secondary one. :)
A trust is a better route to have multiple people be able to be in possession in my opinion.
The problem with doing it through a LLC is that if the business would ever go under, or split etc, then you'd have to re-file the weapon with the ATF under a new name and pay yet another $200 tax stamp per NFA item.
A LLC, at least in my state, exists as long as the annual fees are paid ($50). Even if a licensed business operating under it ceases activity, the LLC could continue.
I would use a standalone LLC for NFA firearms, instead, so they couldn't be construed as assets in a bankruptcy or other legal situation.
Having multiple members in a LLC is as simple as listing them on the Articles of Incorporation.
I misconstrued how the word sale was used.
I didn't say purchasing was easier. I said selling was, for the reasons listed above.
To get the thread back on topic (sorry for the derail), everyuser's advice is sound, in my opinion. I'm not a lawyer, OP, but if your LLC already has non-NFA asssets, purchasing NFA items with the same LLC may expose those non-NFA assets to risk. His best advice was getting a lawyer, or in your case, a new/secondary one. :)
Thanks everyone for the replies!
My LLC business is firearms training and instruction. I have a regular full time job as well that will move me to another part of the country so I have no idea how that will affect any NFA items, or the business for that matter.
I'm trying to avoid spending anymore money on lawyers. I plan to operate the business over the next several years but we never know what life wants to throw at us.
If I travel to another state do I have to declare the movement of the NFA items?
Great info here, thanks. I need to research more about what would be better in Ohio.
Thanks everyone for the replies!
My LLC business is firearms training and instruction. I have a regular full time job as well that will move me to another part of the country so I have no idea how that will affect any NFA items, or the business for that matter.
I'm trying to avoid spending anymore money on lawyers. I plan to operate the business over the next several years but we never know what life wants to throw at us.
If I travel to another state do I have to declare the movement of the NFA items?
Yes you'll need to notify the ATF of movement from outside the state it's registered. It's a form 5320. However, it doesn't need to be done every single trip, you can put the time frame for a year and be good to go. Just make sure to have the approval and paperwork with you. By traditional methods it's supposed to take around 2 weeks, but they've been known to help you out with a fast turn around if needed. They did a one day turn around for me so I could compete in another state (Pickles is awesome), although, I wouldn't count on it.
http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-5320-1.pdf
+1 on the good info. My wife and I were thinking of starting an LLC as we might start up a business on the side. Sounds like it may not be the best idea to mix business with pleasure though.
+1 on the good info. My wife and I were thinking of starting an LLC as we might start up a business on the side. Sounds like it may not be the best idea to mix business with pleasure though.
it all turns to work in the end.
This whole NFA thing is a total joke. How long until the zombie apocalypse so we can do away with this crap.
it all turns to work in the end.
This whole NFA thing is a total joke. How long until the zombie apocalypse so we can do away with this crap.
That would be nice.
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