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pmedic920
10-24-12, 19:42
I was looking at the AR picture thread and noticed something very common on a lot of the weapons. I am new to both the AR and this forum, so please be kind. I did use the search button prior to asking. I noticed that many of you have what appear to me, to a type of lock or securing device on your trigger/hammer pins. I understand that on some weapons, or trigger groups that the pins may walk or move. My only AR so far is a LE6920 socom. I love this thing. After 1000 rounds and a lot of reading, i installed a Geissele SSA-e. Money well spent (imho). 500 rounds post trigger upgrade and i have noticed Zero trigger/hammer pin movement. My questions are.... Is the little bar that i see connecting the hammer and trigger pins a securing device/lock? If so is this something only on select fire weapons? Are some manufactures more prone to pin movement than others? Is this a fairly cheap insurance item that all ARs should have in place. If so who makes and sells them? I sure hope im close on this, if not, when yall are done laughing please enlighten me. Thanks for your time.
lethal dose
10-24-12, 19:44
You are correct. They secure the fcg pins. They are not needed 99% of the time. Press on without them.
jet66
10-24-12, 19:48
My questions are.... Is the little bar that i see connecting the hammer and trigger pins a securing device/lock? If so is this something only on select fire weapons? Are some manufactures more prone to pin movement than others? Is this a fairly cheap insurance item that all ARs should have in place. If so who makes and sells them? I sure hope im close on this, if not, when yall are done laughing please enlighten me. Thanks for your time.

Sounds like KNS pins. If you do search for them here, you'll find a ton of info. The short version is that they aren't really necessary for semi-autos, and arguably a 'good idea' for some full-auto. If your lower and pins are in spec (and hammer/trigger springs installed correctly) 'walking' shouldn't be a problem. I've got a Colt A2 AR15 rifle from the late 80's or early 90's, several thousands of rounds through it, absolutely zero 'pin walking.'
ZoneOne
10-24-12, 19:48
A good saying I heard just recently is... "a money transfer device"
jaxman7
10-24-12, 20:02
Pmedic,

First off welcome to the forum bud. Thanks for using the search button first. ;)
Only reason you didn't find them was b/c you didn't know the name, KNS.

I've only seen one pin ever walk out on a properly put together rifle. My buddy's hammer pin walked out while I was shooting it full auto. That's it.

I honestly think most guys put them on because of aesthetics. How do I know? On my first ever AR I put some on. :) My main justification above all was that I thought they looked cool.

Here's some reading so you can decide yourself:

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=67904


https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=50830

-Jax
pmedic920
10-24-12, 20:04
I am sure my search would have been more successful had i known what to call them. Thanks kindly for the rapid response.
Iraqgunz
10-24-12, 20:45
If the hammer and trigger pins and your weapon are walking loose its' because something is assembled improperly or out of spec. Make sure that everything is put together correctly.
VIP3R 237
10-24-12, 20:50
With how tight Geissele's pins are i wouldnt think its possible for one to walk out. In fact Geissele does not recommend KNS pins at all.
msap
10-24-12, 21:12
The pins on my 6920 walk out. My rifle is put together correctly. I have horrible luck. I put the KNS pins in a few years ago…no problems since.
Iraqgunz
10-24-12, 21:38
Then something is defective or worn and you should have addressed it. I have seen M16's older than what your 6920 is and they didn't have issues.


The pins on my 6920 walk out. My rifle is put together correctly. I have horrible luck. I put the KNS pins in a few years ago…no problems since.
pmedic920
10-24-12, 21:57
I have NOT had any problems with my trigger/hammer pins, either before or after the upgrade. I saw the KNS pins in the photo thread. I have since read the info that jaxman referred me to. As with many other topics here the opinions are many. I do think they look nice, but Mr.Geissele says his pins are good, and when installed properly wont or should not move. I trust his knowledge on the matter. I will take the advise of many here and spend the money on ammo and instruction. It has been nice taking part in a conversation here, and i thank you that have responded.
lethal dose
10-24-12, 21:58
Then something is defective or worn and you should have addressed it. I have seen M16's older than what your 6920 is and they didn't have issues.

Exactly. I've seen some pretty stinking clapped out rifles not using KNS pins.
Eric
10-24-12, 21:58
The pins on my 6920 walk out.
You should contact Colt, as that is not normal.
msap
10-24-12, 23:20
You should contact Colt, as that is not normal.

I agree with you guys. I read up on the pins a few years back. Decided to try the pins and not send the rifle back.
MrSmitty
10-25-12, 10:35
I've only ever seen two pins walk out. A trigger pin because the hammer spring was improperly installed, and a hammer pin because the rifle came from the factory without a J spring in the hammer. Both easily remedied without some silly addition.

I used to think KNS pins were the cat's ass, then I saw the light...