View Full Version : Am I impersonating an Officer?
dialM4murder
02-11-08, 18:05
Is it illegal to wear a police/swat patch on my army jacket for novelty reasons? I admire swat teams, and I have a local patch for the Lorain, OH SWAT team. Would it be illegal for me to wear the patch on my army field coat? Im not trying to be a "wanna be" or be something I'm not, I just just think its a neat novelty type thing.
I think it should be all right as long as you don't present/identify yourself as an officer or attempt to do police work while so attired. Check with your local PD to be sure though.
I don't know about Ohio, but in Va.-you would be arrested. Insignia is referred to in the code, so a patch would not be allowed. Check with your local agency, they may have a "pro shop" with clothing that doesn't have the customarily worn badge and/or insignia.
538d. (a) Any person other than one who by law is given the
authority of a peace officer, who willfully wears, exhibits, or uses
the authorized uniform, insignia, emblem, device, label, certificate,
card, or writing, of a peace officer, with the intent of
fraudulently impersonating a peace officer, or of fraudulently
inducing the belief that he or she is a peace officer, is guilty of a
misdemeanor.
It is a specific intent crime in California; It depends a lot on your intent, conduct, and the reasonably standard being applied to both...
I would say its legal to wear the patch, but not wise.
I would heed the advice given here. While in your city and state it may not be illegal, it is most certainly not a wise decision to wear the patch. You are not an officer and wearing the patch would draw attention both from law enforcement and the criminal element.
On the law enforcement end you would be guaranteed to be contacted to see what you are up to, investigating whether you are impersonating. The attention from the criminal element could place you at undo risk.
There is a reason you do not see off-duty officers wearing police related apparel when not at work, the attention is not worth it and could place you at risk of being a target. Despite you statement that you are not a "wanna be," from the outside it would appear the opposite if you were to wear the patch.
You will do what you want, but I recommend asking an officer in your jurisdiction about the legality of it. Regardless, the officer(s) will most likely give the same advice as you are recieving here from myself and other officers.
Not to come off like a jerk, but I think you'd look like a poser.
Cool to have.
Not cool to wear.
Just my opinion.
-RD62
RogerinTPA
02-11-08, 21:51
I'm not a cop, but Ditto on all of the above. Perception is reality. Some person or Peace officer takes it the wrong way and it will get uncomfortable for you. I have a cork board with various Army patches from units I've been assigned to as well as worked with, branch insignia, and some patches from various PD's & FD's from around the country, etc...hanging on my "I love me wall" in my office. I got the idea many years ago from the bar at the Key West airport. They have a wall of various military, police, and fire department patches, including a few I have contributed. Maybe you should try something similar so you don't draw the wrong impression.
Army Chief
02-12-08, 00:08
As a former LEO and career military officer, my rule-of-thumb as always been to never wear any badge of office, rank, or organizational patch that I didn't personally earn the right to wear. Legality is certainly a potential issue in this instance, but beyond this, I think it would just be far less confusing -- and less potentially embarrassing -- to just leave the patch at home.
Remember, no one that sees your jacket will know anything about your intent; to them, you'll just be another armchair commando trying to look like someone/something that you're not. I suppose that would seem to be doubly true when the patch is for a local team that folks may have some familiarity with. No matter what your thought process, it will still look to others as if you are trying to identify with an elite group that you have no real connection to.
Look at it this way: if you were a sworn police officer on the Lorain, Ohio PD, but not on the SWAT team, would you feel comfortable wearing it? Of course not -- you would be the laughingstock of the entire department (or worse). Why, then, would it be OK for someone with absolutely no connection to the department at all to be wearing it? Again, I don't think that anyone here is questioning your motives, but I do think you would be leaving a very great potential for misunderstanding by sewing it on to your jacket.
Chief
KintlaLake
02-12-08, 01:19
A local CLEO gave me a ball cap with the agency insignia on it, and hell, I feel like a punk poseur every time I even consider wearing it beyond the end of my driveway...:rolleyes:
I had a buddy in school who was a great guy, but was grotesquely obese. He was a member of the junior chipmunk triple auxillary back-up squad of his sheriff's department back home and could quote every war movie ever made. One day he came out of his room wearing the SEAL budweiser pinned to his shirt. I told him wearing that was not a good idea - some retired or active duty SEAL would see it and have an issue. My buddy was a good guy, but a total poser. Would you want to be confused with someone like that? I think not. I wouldn't wear it. :)
Army Chief
02-12-08, 08:51
The strange paradox in all of this, I suppose, is that those who have served (or are serving) in some of the more elite armed formations out there tend not to advertise it much at all.
I spent many years doing the Bragg/82nd thing, for example, and while I wouldn't attempt to equate that to a SEAL team or the FBI HRT, it was still a fairly unusual thing for me to wear anything that called attention to the affiliation. My friends in the SOCOM community were even less flashy, just as you might expect. The old adage still rings true: "Those who know, know."
I remember walking around in the 1-SFOD training facility once upon a time (no, not in the squadron bays) and laughing to myself that, even in the halls of their own ultra-secure HQ, the plaques and citations on the wall referred simply to "The Unit." Talk about understatement ...
I'm not sure how any of this thinking may differ in purely civilian/LEO settings, but in general, it is always best to be quietly deemed competent by your word and deed, than to garner up-front attention by showing up looking like a billboard in need of validation. It's the dudes that say very little and provide few overt clues about their identity that you really need to watch out for. :cool:
Chief
A lont time ago, I spent some years in LE. My son-in-law is presently a SWAT team member, sergeant in his city's police force, former DARE cop. Those guys are NOT fond of someone wearing their insignia, no matter how innocently the poser may claim to be.
My shield has been turned in. I don't need it anymore. Of course, some folks go to gunshows and buy those badges that proclaim that you're a concealed weapons license recipient. WHOOPEE! I've had CCW in five states but the badge kind of takes away the "concealed" part, doesn't it. Most cops accept CCW holders just fine; it is AGAINST most state regs to flash your gun to try to impress or frighten someone, and you can easily lose your CCW license if you do.
Someone with an earlier post spoke of having an "I love me" wall. Maybe that would work for you, unless your desire is to impress others. I don't know.
Good luck.
Sonnytoo
As a former LEO and career military officer, my rule-of-thumb as always been to never wear any badge of office, rank, or organizational patch that I didn't personally earn the right to wear. Legality is certainly a potential issue in this instance, but beyond this, I think it would just be far less confusing -- and less potentially embarrassing -- to just leave the patch at home.
Remember, no one that sees your jacket will know anything about your intent; to them, you'll just be another armchair commando trying to look like someone/something that you're not. I suppose that would seem to be doubly true when the patch is for a local team that folks may have some familiarity with. No matter what your thought process, it will still look to others as if you are trying to identify with an elite group that you have no real connection to.
Look at it this way: if you were a sworn police officer on the Lorain, Ohio PD, but not on the SWAT team, would you feel comfortable wearing it? Of course not -- you would be the laughingstock of the entire department (or worse). Why, then, would it be OK for someone with absolutely no connection to the department at all to be wearing it? Again, I don't think that anyone here is questioning your motives, but I do think you would be leaving a very great potential for misunderstanding by sewing it on to your jacket.
Chief
Very well said, sir.
Generally speaking, shoulder patches can be traded and collected.
Sewing it to a garment is big time Gay Poser, and TOSesque to boot, fr00t!
Wearing anything that's an Identifier out in public is a bad idea. Even worse idea when you're not the real deal.
I had a buddy in school who was a great guy, but was grotesquely obese. He was a member of the junior chipmunk triple auxillary back-up squad of his sheriff's department back home and could quote every war movie ever made. One day he came out of his room wearing the SEAL budweiser pinned to his shirt. I told him wearing that was not a good idea - some retired or active duty SEAL would see it and have an issue. My buddy was a good guy, but a total poser. Would you want to be confused with someone like that? I think not. I wouldn't wear it. :)
The wrong person sees him wearing a Trident and he's going to get embarressed real quick. The least he may get is getting the Bird ripped off his shirt...
Team guys have said it many times. Don't support the Teams by wearing a Trident or shirts that may be confused for impersonating a SEAL. If you don't rate it, don't wear it.
In the world of military and LE, only wear what you have achieved. Trust me on this, you wont see and Active Duty Force Recon Marine wearing a Force Recon T-Shirt out in town- GAY.
People work extra hard to earn those "Special Titles"- to wear them with out earning them is a slap to those who have bled for those titles.
p.s. unless the shirt says "I support ________" or "my son is a ___________"...then I would say it's ok.
Would look like a poser...
My limit of military or police specific gear extends to military camo, which I find to be adequate for hunting. I attach no insignia though, and I don't buy MARPAT. :D
Is it illegal to wear a police/swat patch on my army jacket for novelty reasons? I admire swat teams, and I have a local patch for the Lorain, OH SWAT team. Would it be illegal for me to wear the patch on my army field coat? Im not trying to be a "wanna be" or be something I'm not, I just just think its a neat novelty type thing.
Give it a place of honor in your collection in the house. Admire fondly within.
, and I don't buy MARPAT. :D
If you are not or have not been a Marine then I don't know why you would. It is not a bad pattern but there are better. Hell I was forced to buy some before I got out and I rarely wear it.
RogerinTPA
02-12-08, 11:25
The term "Quiet Professional" is the term that we used in the Army SOF community and indeed now, the entire military SOF community.
GLP Standard
02-12-08, 11:33
[Post edited by myself]
If you are just planning on wearing that patch, it will cause you problems.
If you are doing a patch jacket (totally covered in different patches), I don't see a problem.
The two different jackets serve different purposes.
The first one looks like a poser.
The second one is just showing off a collection.
Neither is cool in my book, but I am just grey man.
HolyRoller
02-12-08, 15:53
I'm piling on here with another suggested no, but I have a specific example to support it.
Unlike Striker5's bud, one of my friends at church looks the part--tall, athletic, muscular, ripped, low body fat, and is not the boastful type. The first time I remember meeting him, he was wearing a ball cap labeled "SWAT" and, being a brand new reserve deputy at the time, I was like "wow, you're on the SWAT team, how do you like it?" He said he wasn't even a cop, just liked to wear the hat. And this is in the Fayetteville NC area, the world headquarters of spec ops, where poseurs pose at their peril.
Since then, I've gotten to know my friend much better, and he is a true stand-up guy who I'd trust with my sister, if I had one. He really ought to be a police officer, except he keeps hurting himself playing sports. But the initial impression of posing took a long, long time to overcome.
So, show your support in other ways, and in a few years when you make the SWAT team yourself, you'll understand that even though "it ain't bragging if you can do it" the respect of your peers who have also done something special means more than wearing the patch.
CarlosDJackal
02-12-08, 17:33
I would check with your local jurisdiction. Laws vary by State on this.
Laws aside, if you wore it on your shoulder or chest (depending on the patch in question) then it might seem like you are trying to be a wannabe or a Police impersonator. If you were to sew it onto, let's say the back of the jacket,whether next to other patches or not, then nobody might give it a second look.... except some POS scumbag who may have developed some sort of hatred to the particular unit or agency that patch belongs to. FWIW, I never openly wear anything that might indicate any affiliation to my agency except when I am in uniform. Even though I am extremely proud of my 7+ years as a Volunteer Deputy, it's not something I like to openly advertise.
I recommend just putting that patch in a shadow box or something similar (IE: a wall flag?) along with any other patches or badges that you would like to display. JM2CW.
the1911fan
02-12-08, 17:35
According to Ohio Law
2921.51 Impersonation of peace officer or private police officer.
(A) As used in this section:
(1) “Peace officer” means a sheriff, deputy sheriff, marshal, deputy marshal, member of the organized police department of a municipal corporation, or township constable, who is employed by a political subdivision of this state, a member of a police force employed by a metropolitan housing authority under division (D) of section 3735.31 of the Revised Code, a member of a police force employed by a regional transit authority under division (Y) of section 306.35 of the Revised Code, a state university law enforcement officer appointed under section 3345.04 of the Revised Code, a veterans’ home police officer appointed under section 5907.02 of the Revised Code, a special police officer employed by a port authority under section 4582.04 or 4582.28 of the Revised Code, or a state highway patrol trooper and whose primary duties are to preserve the peace, to protect life and property, and to enforce the laws, ordinances, or rules of the state or any of its political subdivisions.
(2) “Private police officer” means any security guard, special police officer, private detective, or other person who is privately employed in a police capacity.
(3) “Federal law enforcement officer” means an employee of the United States who serves in a position the duties of which are primarily the investigation, apprehension, or detention of individuals suspected or convicted of offenses under the criminal laws of the United States.
(4) “Impersonate” means to act the part of, assume the identity of, wear the uniform or any part of the uniform of, or display the identification of a particular person or of a member of a class of persons with purpose to make another person believe that the actor is that particular person or is a member of that class of persons.
(5) “Investigator of the bureau of criminal identification and investigation” has the same meaning as in section 2903.11 of the Revised Code.
(B) No person shall impersonate a peace officer, a private police officer, a federal law enforcement officer, or investigator of the bureau of criminal identification and investigation.
(C) No person, by impersonating a peace officer, a private police officer, a federal law enforcement officer, or investigator of the bureau of criminal identification and investigation shall arrest or detain any person, search any person, or search the property of any person.
(D) No person, with purpose to commit or facilitate the commission of an offense, shall impersonate a peace officer, a private police officer, a federal law enforcement officer, an officer, agent, or employee of the state, or investigator of the bureau of criminal identification and investigation.
(E) No person shall commit a felony while impersonating a peace officer, a private police officer, a federal law enforcement officer, an officer, agent, or employee of the state, or investigator of the bureau of criminal identification and investigation.
(F) It is an affirmative defense to a charge under division (B) of this section that the impersonation of the peace officer, private police officer, or investigator of the bureau of criminal identification and investigation was for a lawful purpose.
(G) Whoever violates division (B) of this section is guilty of a misdemeanor of the fourth degree. Whoever violates division (C) or (D) of this section is guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree. If the purpose of a violation of division (D) of this section is to commit or facilitate the commission of a felony, a violation of division (D) is a felony of the fourth degree. Whoever violates division (E) of this section is guilty of a felony of the third degree.
Effective Date: 03-14-2003; 01-04-2007; 04-04-2007
About seven years ago, I was spending a fair bit of time with a particular military unit at their schoolhouse. Even went to Rogers Shooting School with their firearms instruction cadre. At one point, one of the NCOICs gave me hat from the school. It was really cool, with a skull and the phrase "nous defions" ...
Fast forward a couple of weeks. I'm back home and decided to wear that really cool hat to the range. This very squared-away looking guy comes over to me out of the blue and asks, "Hey, when did you go through SFARTAETC?"
"Uhhh," I answered eloquently. "I'm a vendor, they use my company's pistols."
The former SF guy just nodded, politely shook my hand, said, "Well, nice to meet you," and walked away. It was the nicest, most professional "frak you" I'd ever experienced.
I've never worn the hat again.
Plus, it just detracts from my "SEAL Team Ranger Delta 6 Recon" arm patch.
twodollarbill
02-12-08, 18:26
My wife sometimes come to bed wearing a "SECURITY" T-shirt.
I have no problems with that........
Army field jacket with a swat patch? That belongs on someone at the local gunshows. No offense to you for liking your field jacket or your swat patch. They just don't go together. I happen to like midgets and porn, but not together.
If you're not breaking the law,wear whatever you want.Who gives a flyin' f*ck what others think.
The problem is he actually might be breaking the law. He needs to find that put for himself. Harv showed that in LA he would be breaking the law.
More likely you'd just be impersonating someone without taste. :D
My Google-fu is strong.
Ohio Revised Code, Title XXIX Chapter 2921 section 51, Impersonation of peace officer or private police officer
(A) As used in this section:
(1) “Peace officer” means a sheriff, deputy sheriff, marshal, deputy marshal, member of the organized police department of a municipal corporation, or township constable, who is employed by a political subdivision of this state, a member of a police force employed by a metropolitan housing authority under division (D) of section 3735.31 of the Revised Code, a member of a police force employed by a regional transit authority under division (Y) of section 306.35 of the Revised Code, a state university law enforcement officer appointed under section 3345.04 of the Revised Code, a veterans’ home police officer appointed under section 5907.02 of the Revised Code, a special police officer employed by a port authority under section 4582.04 or 4582.28 of the Revised Code, or a state highway patrol trooper and whose primary duties are to preserve the peace, to protect life and property, and to enforce the laws, ordinances, or rules of the state or any of its political subdivisions.
(2) “Private police officer” means any security guard, special police officer, private detective, or other person who is privately employed in a police capacity.
(3) “Federal law enforcement officer” means an employee of the United States who serves in a position the duties of which are primarily the investigation, apprehension, or detention of individuals suspected or convicted of offenses under the criminal laws of the United States.
(4) “Impersonate” means to act the part of, assume the identity of, wear the uniform or any part of the uniform of, or display the identification of a particular person or of a member of a class of persons with purpose to make another person believe that the actor is that particular person or is a member of that class of persons.
(5) “Investigator of the bureau of criminal identification and investigation” has the same meaning as in section 2903.11 of the Revised Code.
(B) No person shall impersonate a peace officer, a private police officer, a federal law enforcement officer, or investigator of the bureau of criminal identification and investigation.
(C) No person, by impersonating a peace officer, a private police officer, a federal law enforcement officer, or investigator of the bureau of criminal identification and investigation shall arrest or detain any person, search any person, or search the property of any person.
(D) No person, with purpose to commit or facilitate the commission of an offense, shall impersonate a peace officer, a private police officer, a federal law enforcement officer, an officer, agent, or employee of the state, or investigator of the bureau of criminal identification and investigation.
(E) No person shall commit a felony while impersonating a peace officer, a private police officer, a federal law enforcement officer, an officer, agent, or employee of the state, or investigator of the bureau of criminal identification and investigation.
(F) It is an affirmative defense to a charge under division (B) of this section that the impersonation of the peace officer, private police officer, or investigator of the bureau of criminal identification and investigation was for a lawful purpose.
(G) Whoever violates division (B) of this section is guilty of a misdemeanor of the fourth degree. Whoever violates division (C) or (D) of this section is guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree. If the purpose of a violation of division (D) of this section is to commit or facilitate the commission of a felony, a violation of division (D) is a felony of the fourth degree. Whoever violates division (E) of this section is guilty of a felony of the third degree.
Without digging into case law, I couldn't tell you whether 2921.51(F)'s "lawful purpose" has been interpreted to include "wearing it because I admire SWAT teams." But the definition of impersonation in 2921.51(A)(4) clearly includes wearing of insignia.
HLDefender
02-12-08, 22:49
Is it illegal to wear a police/swat patch on my army jacket for novelty reasons? I admire swat teams, and I have a local patch for the Lorain, OH SWAT team. Would it be illegal for me to wear the patch on my army field coat? Im not trying to be a "wanna be" or be something I'm not, I just just think its a neat novelty type thing.
As an Auxiliary Police Officer here in NJ, I can offer a little advice about this subject. I try not to wear anything that will portray me as an off duty Law Enforcement Officer simply because you're literally placing a bullseye on your body.
It may be highly unlikely, but if you come across the wrong type of person who hates cops in the worst way, you'll never see it coming. Wear anything that says Police on you and walk into a bank. If God forbid an Armed robbery is in progress you'll be the first one shot. Unless you're "on the job" , I highly recommend not doing it.
I can go on with the examples, but I think I made my point.
HLD...
the1911fan
02-13-08, 09:45
My Google-fu is strong.
Ohio Revised Code, Title XXIX Chapter 2921 section 51, Impersonation of peace officer or private police officer
Without digging into case law, I couldn't tell you whether 2921.51(F)'s "lawful purpose" has been interpreted to include "wearing it because I admire SWAT teams." But the definition of impersonation in 2921.51(A)(4) clearly includes wearing of insignia.
Having made 5 arrests for this violation over the last 19 years, I can tell you the key element required by the Prosecutor/s-Grand Jury is " the intent of the actor to make another person believe that the actor is that particular person or is a member of that class of persons".
Your google fu did'nt need to be that strong..if you would have looked 7 posts up ......
Your google fu did'nt need to be that strong..if you would have looked 7 posts up ......
DOH! :D
About seven years ago, I was spending a fair bit of time with a particular military unit at their schoolhouse. Even went to Rogers Shooting School with their firearms instruction cadre. At one point, one of the NCOICs gave me hat from the school. It was really cool, with a skull and the phrase "nous defions" ...
Fast forward a couple of weeks. I'm back home and decided to wear that really cool hat to the range. This very squared-away looking guy comes over to me out of the blue and asks, "Hey, when did you go through SFARTAETC?"
"Uhhh," I answered eloquently. "I'm a vendor, they use my company's pistols."
The former SF guy just nodded, politely shook my hand, said, "Well, nice to meet you," and walked away. It was the nicest, most professional "frak you" I'd ever experienced.
I've never worn the hat again.
Plus, it just detracts from my "SEAL Team Ranger Delta 6 Recon" arm patch.
Does that hat have a dagger peircing down into the skull or the skull sitting on top of the dagger? I can't remember.... I know a lot of C3/7 SF guys had that tat.
As a full time Police Officer and ex-military member. I would agree with what Army Chief said: That being said, if you didn't earn the right to wear it, you shouldn't. Having served in the military and now as a police officer I am very proud of my accomplishments that I rightfully earned through sweat and tears. And can remember back when I was able to pin on the badge for the first time, and know that i did so respectfully entering "the brotherhood" with other officers alike.
While I don't personally have a problem with it, providing you DO NOT portray or tell someone that you are a police officer. I would say, earn the right then no one can say anything about it.
Also, take into account, that wearing a police patch, paints a big Bulls Eye on you, their are not always people in the world who like police, and you may find yourself somewhere where they dont like the patch as much as you.
Just my .02 cents worth.
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