View Full Version : How bad was this decision? (First AR15)
The Bulldawg
10-29-12, 20:56
I recently just purchased my first AR15. I Grabbed a HIgh Standard M4 Carbine after listening to my local gun guys pitch. I have bought many guns from him and had been contemplating an AR. Just in the last 3 months I have bought three from him alone. The price of the gun and the sight (eotech 512 A65) was $1000 plus tax. I felt comfortable with the deal but knew nothing about what to look for at all. Well since then I have managed to run around 600 rounds through with no issues at all which I feel Is a low round count. So in short guys now after reading all of this I see a couple of things I should of made sure such a 1/7 barrel, chrome lined and so on. So how ad of a decision did I make as there is little feedback on what I purchased. Thanks
Never heard of high standard making an ar. Now some of there .22 pistols were amazing shooters!
FlyingHunter
10-29-12, 21:13
Never heard of a High Standard M4 either, googled and low and behold ...but 600 rds and no problems thus far...good for you! Shoot, train, and Enjoy your first M4carbine.
themighty9mm
10-29-12, 21:14
Horrible choice, now cross your heart 3 times turn around twice and slap the closest person to you... Kidding BTW, I'm sure it is fine
Better question is, does it do what you want it to do? Are you happy with your choice? And finally what do you invision this rifle to do for you? Just plinking on the range? Shoot on and enjoy. Run drills for time? Shoot on and enjoy. Gun that may save you or another life? Shoot on and enjoy for now, but might consider getting something a bit more ready for rougher use down the line. Colt, DD, LMT, Noveske. Wont necessarily have to, just something to consider.
so the gun was less than 600 bucks?
what do you intend to do with it? I'm not the guy who tells you if it isn't Colt (or other similar) it isn't shit but you do need to understand everything is built to a purpose and a price point.
if it's for plinkin and shooting paper targets and maybe bustin a coyote now and then, then you didn't do bad. in fact, with the Eotech, I'd say you got a pretty good deal.
but there's a reason you see the same guns recommended here over and over and if you intend to use this gun in a "serious" fashion, whether it's for targets that shoot back, or even a high round count "game" gun, then you have chosen a gun that will probably not be as reliable or durable as the higher priced spread.
I don't know a thing about High Standard but the critical things you look for are the chamber - .223 or 5.56. this has an effect on the type of ammo you can shoot safely. next is barrel twist. a 1-9 means you will be limited to shorter/lighter weigh projectiles (45-62gr).
next are the usual things like proper staking on gas key and receiver extension (buffer tube). next is buffer weight (H is generally recommended), 5-coil spring and black insert on the extractor, and solid construction techniques. these go directly to the reliability of the firearms in general.
next is RE diameter (milspec vs. commercial) and barrel steel. 4150 is considered the good stuff and this goes to durability but depending on your use, you may never notice the difference between this and any other type.
I have several guns that are not serious use guns. and some even shoot .223 ammunition. some are for hunting and some are for my kids to burn cheap steel case ammo. but the thing to remember is not to confuse one with the other even though can they appear similar...
It wasn't an ideal choice by any means, but hopefully the optic was new and the gun serves you well for now as you build a base of knowledge.
Have you been shooting .223 or 5.56? If you have 600 rounds of decent 5.56 through it you're off to a good start, but some upgrades could still be considered.
Also, do you have a link to this particular model anywhere?
justin_247
10-29-12, 21:50
You have really poor future-time orientation.
I don't know why the heck people go and buy something, and then go and ask others about it. It's ass backwards.
Please don't vote.
theinvisibleheart
10-29-12, 21:50
Considering that you paid $500-$600 for one (discounting for optic) and have had 600 flawless rounds, I would say it's a fair deal.
You can't get Colt or Noveske for what you paid and there is no absolute guarantee that you won't get a lemon, even from well known name brand.
I would be curious in knowing how HS AR15 compares when you get higher quality name brand AR down the line.
You have really poor future-time orientation.
I don't know why the heck people go and buy something, and then go and ask others about it. It's ass backwards.
Please don't vote.
Don't let your time here turn you into a dick like many others before have.
Magic_Salad0892
10-29-12, 22:58
Get a Colt BCG, and you should be okay for now.
DeltaSierra
10-29-12, 23:06
Get a Colt BCG, and you should be okay for now.
Yeah, this....at least...
I wouldn't carry a High Standard AR if you gave it to me, but, I wouldn't carry an Eotech if you gave me on either....
If you intend to use that rifle in a home defense role, ditch it, and buy a better quality rifle. If you are simply using it as a range toy, rock on......
As everyone said, it is not if you enjoy it and know its limitations, and what its use is.
Many people, including myself for a time, are happy with S&W M&P's whilst many people say they are horrible rifles and you should go buy a Colt or some other brand.
Have fun with your choice!
DeltaSierra
10-29-12, 23:19
As everyone said, it is not if you enjoy it and know its limitations, and what its use is.
Many people, including myself for a time, are happy with S&W M&P's whilst many people say they are horrible rifles and you should go buy a Colt or some other brand.
Have fun with your choice!
I don't know where the hell you read that, but...
It was a horrible choice. As I rather clearly stated, I wouldn't carry it if it was free....
However, I'm simply sick of trying to explain to people why they made a bad choice, when reading for fifteen minutes on this site should give you all the information you need....
So, like I said in my previous post, if this carbine is simply going to be a range toy (yes, that was sarcasm) then rock on (again, sarcasm.)
I don't know where the hell you read that, but...
Well sorry, what I meant is that generally most people replying are saying it was not a good choice as in quality, but as you say, as a "range toy" it should be fine. That being said, he should know his gun is just for fun, a "range toy," hence my saying he should know its limitations.
Shoot till failure. Now you know....and knowing is half the battle.
Case closed.
HSA AR's are crap and I personally am in the same opinion as Delta Sierra. There have been a few threads on here about them. Looking at their specs there is nothing that jumps out and says "buy me".
If you feel comfortable with it then rock on. If you want a plinker get a S&W M&P15-22.
The Bulldawg
10-30-12, 05:41
You have really poor future-time orientation.
I don't know why the heck people go and buy something, and then go and ask others about it. It's ass backwards.
Please don't vote.
Pleased to meet you.
I would say, in order to define if it was a bad choice, you would need to define what the choice was about. In the end, you get what you pay for, and it sounds like that is what you got. I rifle that is functioning, but one you may or may not be able to trust your life with. I would say shoot the crap out of it and learn the platform.
The Bulldawg
10-30-12, 08:03
I would say, in order to define if it was a bad choice, you would need to define what the choice was about. In the end, you get what you pay for, and it sounds like that is what you got. I rifle that is functioning, but one you may or may not be able to trust your life with. I would say shoot the crap out of it and learn the platform.
I got it to shoot at the Range and ranch with my wife and the kids. That's it that's all. However I would of done a few things different if I had known about this forum and a ton of reading since. it was an impulsive buy something that I rarely if ever do. I like your advice and appreciate it.
I'd probably throw a BCM BCG in it for about $150 and retire the one that came with it to being a backup. Just don't expect it to be a top quality piece that you will be able to pass down through the generations.
I recently just purchased my first AR15. I Grabbed a HIgh Standard M4 Carbine after listening to my local gun guys pitch. I have bought many guns from him and had been contemplating an AR. Just in the last 3 months I have bought three from him alone. The price of the gun and the sight (eotech 512 A65) was $1000 plus tax. I felt comfortable with the deal but knew nothing about what to look for at all. Well since then I have managed to run around 600 rounds through with no issues at all which I feel Is a low round count. So in short guys now after reading all of this I see a couple of things I should of made sure such a 1/7 barrel, chrome lined and so on. So how ad of a decision did I make as there is little feedback on what I purchased. Thanks
I didn't think they were in business any more much less making M4s. That's interesting. I have an old HS .22 mag revolver that's a fun plinker and small game gun. Good luck with it. :cool:
crusader377
10-30-12, 08:46
I got it to shoot at the Range and ranch with my wife and the kids. That's it that's all. However I would of done a few things different if I had known about this forum and a ton of reading since. it was an impulsive buy something that I rarely if ever do. I like your advice and appreciate it.
I would not worry to much about your purchase. As long as a runs well you should be good to go. I would just check to make sure your BCG is staked along with the receiver extension. Learn as much as your can about the platform and enjoy your rifle:D.
Bulldawg, you bought a plinker rifle.
If you want a combat rifle, get a Daniel Defense, Noveske, BCM, LMT, KAC, Colt.
nineteenkilo
10-30-12, 08:52
Enjoy your purchase sir and welcome to a new addiction!
Doc. Holiday
10-30-12, 08:53
As long as you're happy with it and it does what you want it to do, then you made a good purchase. If you are noticing hiccups and other things that you are not liking, then you might want to consider something else.
The Bulldawg
10-30-12, 09:10
I am happy overall for what I got. This is where the confusion comes in after looking at who builds lowers for AR'S.
Lewis Machine & Tool
· LMT
· Lauer
· DS Arms
· PWA
· Eagle
· Armalite
· Knights Armament
· Barrett
Continental Machine Tool
· Stag
· Rock River Arms
· High Standard
· Noveske
· Century (New)
· Global Tactical
· CLE
· S&W
· MGI
· Wilson Tactical
· Grenadier Precision
· Colt
LAR Manufacturing
· LAR
· Bushmaster
· Ameetec
· DPMS
· CMMG
· Double Star
· Fulton Armory
· Spike's Tactical
JVP
· Double Star
· LRB
· Charles Daly
Mega Machine Shop
· Mega
· GSE
· Dalphon
· POF
· Alexander Arms
Olympic
· Olympic
· SGW
· Tromix
· Palmetto
· Dalphon
· Frankford
· Century (Old)
Sun Devil
· Sun Devil forged billet receivers
Superior
· Superior Arms
· Lauer (New)
Aero Precision
· Aero Precision
-------------------------------------
Now with this being said how many company's manufacturer uppers or is it done the same by company names outsourcing their uppers as well?
justin_247
10-30-12, 09:15
I am happy overall for what I got. This is where the confusion comes in after looking at who builds lowers for AR'S.
Lewis Machine & Tool
· LMT
· Lauer
· DS Arms
· PWA
· Eagle
· Armalite
· Knights Armament
· Barrett
Continental Machine Tool
· Stag
· Rock River Arms
· High Standard
· Noveske
· Century (New)
· Global Tactical
· CLE
· S&W
· MGI
· Wilson Tactical
· Grenadier Precision
· Colt
LAR Manufacturing
· LAR
· Bushmaster
· Ameetec
· DPMS
· CMMG
· Double Star
· Fulton Armory
· Spike's Tactical
JVP
· Double Star
· LRB
· Charles Daly
Mega Machine Shop
· Mega
· GSE
· Dalphon
· POF
· Alexander Arms
Olympic
· Olympic
· SGW
· Tromix
· Palmetto
· Dalphon
· Frankford
· Century (Old)
Sun Devil
· Sun Devil forged billet receivers
Superior
· Superior Arms
· Lauer (New)
Aero Precision
· Aero Precision
-------------------------------------
Now with this being said how many company's manufacturer uppers or is it done the same by company names outsourcing their uppers as well?
I don't know where you got this chart from, but it's wrong. HS forges their own lowers - there are threads on this.
Magic_Salad0892
10-30-12, 09:19
I don't know where you got this chart from, but it's wrong. HS forges their own lowers - there are threads on this.
I'm also relatively certain that KAC makes their own lowers. Even though it's theoretically plausable for LMT to do so.
I don't know where you got this chart from, but it's wrong. HS forges their own lowers - there are threads on this.
My advice in these situations is always shoot and enjoy it but don't sink a lot of money into it as upgrades. If you start thinking about things like adding a nice rail, different furnature etc maybe it is time to think about a different host gun.
polymorpheous
10-30-12, 09:32
I don't know where you got this chart from, but it's wrong. HS forges their own lowers - there are threads on this.
They forge their own lowers?
You sure?
I bet you meant that they machine their own lowers from forgings.
The Bulldawg
10-30-12, 09:33
I don't know where you got this chart from, but it's wrong. HS forges their own lowers - there are threads on this.
Please let me know where there are threads on this and or show me otherwise.
ICANHITHIMMAN
10-30-12, 09:46
Well you got a hobby gun, I did this too back in the day. No way to justify it, just wont happen shoot it and move on. Now that you know sell it to some one who doesn't and try again. If you don't like the answer's your getting you should not have asked before doing your homework.
I don't know where the hell you read that, but...
It was a horrible choice. As I rather clearly stated, I wouldn't carry it if it was free....
However, I'm simply sick of trying to explain to people why they made a bad choice, when reading for fifteen minutes on this site should give you all the information you need....
So, like I said in my previous post, if this carbine is simply going to be a range toy (yes, that was sarcasm) then rock on (again, sarcasm.)
My first rifle was an MP15. It was fine for what its use was. Higher round counts called for something better.
If his rifle is going to see 500 rounds a year then rock on... at least its another American suporting his right to own.
As for "carry" I wouldnt carry it either. But in the sence carry, I mean deployed. Im unsure what you mean. LE, MIL?
At least hes here now to learn. Most peoples rifles will life thier entire life as range toys in a sence. It may serve as a defence tool need be, but chances are it will only be protecting you from paper. Im not saying buying low quality stuff for the purpose of protection is advisable but thats a personal preference and he doesnt need to have someone jumping up his ass. Should I not own a 100+ year old rifle because it wont work if I tried to stop an agressor with it? Its not my go to by any means.
We are all getting a little full ourselfs for being knowlagable and making initial good purchaces. We were all in the dark at one point... I didnt know about this site pre first purchace eaither. But google said bushmaster was the way to go :p
** My spelling my be off, im on my new phone and this thing is a misserable tool.
The Bulldawg
10-30-12, 10:03
Well you got a hobby gun, I did this too back in the day. No way to justify it, just wont happen shoot it and move on. Now that you know sell it to some one who doesn't and try again. If you don't like the answer's your getting you should not have asked before doing your homework.
Nah not upset with anyone at all in regards to answers. I left my feelings at the door bro. I am man enough to say it was an impulsive choice. I am hear now to learn. Yea its a bit disheartening that some feel it necessary to demean me or relate it to me voting, but pride and ego is something that will put you in the grave. Thanks for the heads up.
The Bulldawg
10-30-12, 10:04
My first rifle was an MP15. It was fine for what its use was. Higher round counts called for something better.
If his rifle is going to see 500 rounds a year then rock on... at least its another American suporting his right to own.
As for "carry" I wouldnt carry it either. But in the sence carry, I mean deployed. Im unsure what you mean. LE, MIL?
At least hes here now to learn. Most peoples rifles will life thier entire life as range toys in a sence. It may serve as a defence tool need be, but chances are it will only be protecting you from paper. Im not saying buying low quality stuff for the purpose of protection is advisable but thats a personal preference and he doesnt need to have someone jumping up his ass. Should I not own a 100+ year old rifle because it wont work if I tried to stop an agressor with it? Its not my go to by any means.
We are all getting a little full ourselfs for being knowlagable and making initial good purchaces. We were all in the dark at one point... I didnt know about this site pre first purchace eaither. But google said bushmaster was the way to go :p
** My spelling my be off, im on my new phone and this thing is a
misserable tool.
I appreciate your mature approach in this matter. Thanks and hats off to ya..
For what you have said the rifle will be used for I supposed you did ok, could have easly ran into a shop and had the sales man sell you this exact gun for 1000 without the optics. as for this gun minus the optics you could have done better for the price point going with an M&P sport. If it were me I would just shoot as much as possible to get time behind the trigger and learn the platform then sell it and step up to a higher quality rifle. I dont see why you couldnt get most if not all of the 600$ back selling the rifle. There are a lot of people who will pay that for a used black rifle just to have one.
justin_247
10-30-12, 10:32
They forge their own lowers?
You sure?
I bet you meant that they machine their own lowers from forgings.
You got it!
Please let me know where there are threads on this and or show me otherwise.
After some additional research, it appears I confused High Standard with Superior Arms. My apologies.
As far as that list that you posted, this has been floating around gun forums for years now and is simply not accurate. The first giveaway to this fact was that it says CMT makes lowers for Colt. Additionally, Noveske no longer sources their lowers from CMT and have not for some time. Nor does S&W. Spike's sources their lowers from LAR, Aero, and Mega. POF machines their own lowers out of billet aluminum. Palmetto (PSA) most likely sources their lowers from Aero. I highly doubt Knight's Armament sources their lowers from LMT, but I would not be surprised if they did. Armalite most likely sources their lowers from Aero, since Aero does make upper receivers for them. Bushmaster and DPMS do their own lowers, as well, and have most likely consolidated their production now that both are owned by Freedom Group.
Failure2Stop
10-30-12, 10:43
There is a great deal of mistaken insinuation about that list, and exactly what it means, as well as the fact that it is pretty old.
That being said, it is pretty rare that the lower/upper is at fault when a gun has issues.
justin_247
10-30-12, 10:45
Nah not upset with anyone at all in regards to answers. I left my feelings at the door bro. I am man enough to say it was an impulsive choice. I am hear now to learn. Yea its a bit disheartening that some feel it necessary to demean me or relate it to me voting, but pride and ego is something that will put you in the grave. Thanks for the heads up.
Impulsive choices will surely put you into a grave sooner than my supposed "pride and ego." I operate upon informed decisions and facts more often than not. More often than not, impulsive choices lead to bad financial decisions, criminal activity, and general stupidity.
Palmetto (PSA) most likely sources their lowers from Aero.
That list dates to 2006 or 07, if I'm not mistaken, and is no longer very accurate, as you mentioned. Some glaring absences are Daniels and BCM, who are two of the current favorites for serious shooters.
As for PSA, I'm pretty sure the Palmetto on that list is not PSA. Also, while I have seen a few PSA lowers with Aero Precision serials (AP000xxx,) all seven that I have purchased came from LW Schnieder, who is also not on the list as a forging source (serials LW00xxxxx.)
justin_247
10-30-12, 10:54
That list dates to 2006 or 07, if I'm not mistaken, and is no longer very accurate, as you mentioned. Some glaring absences are Daniels and BCM, who are two of the current favorites for serious shooters.
Yup. It's been floating around forever, and it wasn't even right when it was first posted.
Also, while I have seen a few PSA lowers with Aero Precision serials (AP000xxx,) all seven that I have purchased came from LW Schnieder, who is also not on the list as a forging source (serials LW00xxxxx.)
Good info. Thanks for posting it - I learned something today!
The Bulldawg
10-30-12, 11:03
Thanks guys...
I recently just purchased my first AR15. I Grabbed a HIgh Standard M4 Carbine after listening to my local gun guys pitch. I have bought many guns from him and had been contemplating an AR. Just in the last 3 months I have bought three from him alone. The price of the gun and the sight (eotech 512 A65) was $1000 plus tax. I felt comfortable with the deal but knew nothing about what to look for at all. Well since then I have managed to run around 600 rounds through with no issues at all which I feel Is a low round count. So in short guys now after reading all of this I see a couple of things I should of made sure such a 1/7 barrel, chrome lined and so on. So how ad of a decision did I make as there is little feedback on what I purchased. Thanks
Sounds like a great deal to me! As long as it continues to function properly and you are happy with it that's the main thing.
In my 40+ years of shooting I've learned that everyone has their own reasons for choosing a particular fire arm. Economics have a lot do do with it, you buy what you can afford according to your needs. Someone who's life depends on their rifle(or handgun), such as military or LE should choose the absolute best they can find. Then work your way down from there. If you don't shoot for a living you're probably in it for the fun of shooting. Nothing wrong with that.
JohnnyNumbers
10-30-12, 11:52
My opinion pretty much mirrors some of the others.
If all you're going to do is pop cans off the fence post, punch holes in paper, etc...then shoot your gun and have fun doing so. If something breaks or malfunctions, then learn to troubleshoot and pick up on how the AR system works. Use your gun as a learning tool. Take it apart and put it back together, learn the sighting system...etc.
In other words...shoot the crap out of it!
Later on if you decide to pick up something of better quality, hopefully you can keep impulse decisions to a minimum. Also, when you do decide to pull the trigger on getting another AR (it's a matter of when, not if...LOL) you'll have a better idea of what to get if your main goals are more along the lines of personal/home defense.
Just to reiterate what's been said...if your just going to punch paper, then enjoy your AR. If you bought it with intents on using it to defend your family...then you should consider getting something of better quality.
Have fun...take care, John.
I dont think you did terrible. As other have said, go out and shoot the piss out of it, have fun, and learn. Watch some youtube vids on drills. I wouldnt dump alot of money into the gun itself, save your money for ammo and quality mags. Use your gun as a training/learning tool for when you drop the money on a higher end ar15. I have saved a ton of money and time from using this site and taking advice from members!!
PS. What johnnyNumbers said in the above post
The Bulldawg
10-30-12, 12:43
I will shoot the piss out of it. I look forward to learning more. I have taken it apart and reassembled. To be honest a lot of what you have said to look for it has. It does not have a chrome lined barrel and it has a 1/9 twist not 1/7 but I will shoot it like hell and see if it breaks I will report back but as of now it has 600 rounds and no issues and is very accurate. The finish does seem to be weak as it scratches easily. The detail is not there either so it is no art piece. Thanks again and I will be putting this thing through the paces and will report how it does.
JohnnyNumbers
10-30-12, 12:57
Also...just to add...
There are large quantities of informative videos on Youtube that you can also learn from. They've helped me out many times.
The Bulldawg
10-30-12, 13:14
Impulsive choices will surely put you into a grave sooner than my supposed "pride and ego." I operate upon informed decisions and facts more often than not. More often than not, impulsive choices lead to bad financial decisions, criminal activity, and general stupidity.
Well at least we all here know you sometimes make impulsive choices less often rather than more often. You also seem to like to inflate your great wisdom and view of yourself, which is very easy and safe to do behind a screen and keyboard. To reference my so called poor choice of a rifle without proper research, to the kind of person who is engaged in criminal activity, bad voting habits and bad financial decisions is ignorant and a bit extreme.
Cheers and have a good day..
The_Hammer_Man
10-30-12, 13:21
My take on AR ownership is,of course, different, from most.
When my son wanted his first car I didn't recommend that he go out and purchase a Lambo or a Ferrari. No, I helped him find a "beater" that he could LEARN on/with. Again no, it wasn't going to last him a lifetime. ( it stayed alive till he upgraded to his first new car, about 3 yrs)
Same thing with his first AR. Did we get him a Colt? No, he couldn't afford it so he purchased one within his budgetary restrictions. A S&W M&P
How long did it last? He still has it and he uses it as a loner wep for
friends he shoots with.
The only "help" I gave him was a list of "most likely to fail" parts on the M4 and told him to replace those parts at his earliest convenience.
He has since upgraded to a Colt 6920 but still has a "soft spot" for his first weapon.
Sure it was a POS by comparison to the Colt.... but.. it was HIS pos.
Welcome to the School of Hard Knocks AR-15 Division.
Magic_Salad0892
10-30-12, 13:30
My take on AR ownership is,of course, different, from most.
When my son wanted his first car I didn't recommend that he go out and purchase a Lambo or a Ferrari. No, I helped him find a "beater" that he could LEARN on/with. Again no, it wasn't going to last him a lifetime. ( it stayed alive till he upgraded to his first new car, about 3 yrs)
Same thing with his first AR. Did we get him a Colt? No, he couldn't afford it so he purchased one within his budgetary restrictions. A S&W M&P
How long did it last? He still has it and he uses it as a loner wep for
friends he shoots with.
The only "help" I gave him was a list of "most likely to fail" parts on the M4 and told him to replace those parts at his earliest convenience.
He has since upgraded to a Colt 6920 but still has a "soft spot" for his first weapon.
Sure it was a POS by comparison to the Colt.... but.. it was HIS pos.
Welcome to the School of Hard Knocks AR-15 Division.
That makes no sense to me. Why not just get the quality gun? It works the same (manual of operations) and by the time you replace the parts that suck on a Smith gun, it'd be almost the same price.
If you're gonna get him a beater, give him a gun that can take the beating.
That's my take, IMHO.
The Bulldawg
10-30-12, 13:33
My take on AR ownership is,of course, different, from most.
When my son wanted his first car I didn't recommend that he go out and purchase a Lambo or a Ferrari. No, I helped him find a "beater" that he could LEARN on/with. Again no, it wasn't going to last him a lifetime. ( it stayed alive till he upgraded to his first new car, about 3 yrs)
Same thing with his first AR. Did we get him a Colt? No, he couldn't afford it so he purchased one within his budgetary restrictions. A S&W M&P
How long did it last? He still has it and he uses it as a loner wep for
friends he shoots with.
The only "help" I gave him was a list of "most likely to fail" parts on the M4 and told him to replace those parts at his earliest convenience.
He has since upgraded to a Colt 6920 but still has a "soft spot" for his first weapon.
Sure it was a POS by comparison to the Colt.... but.. it was HIS pos.
Welcome to the School of Hard Knocks AR-15 Division.
Very well said sir.
The_Hammer_Man
10-30-12, 13:41
It makes sense if you look at it from a parents standpoint.
Trying to convince a young man that he's about to make the mistake of his life usually ends in disaster for the parent.
When he told me how much he had to spend and what he wanted.. the Smith product was actually one of the better choices he had available at that time.
Parents HAVE to let their kids make mistakes. It sucks.. but it's how it is. The most you can do is help minimize the damage and shorten the "learning curve".
Which is exactly what I did.
I had offered to match him dollar for dollar so he could purchase a better quality weapon but, like most young men, he wanted to do it on his own.
He lived.. he learned.
crusader377
10-30-12, 13:47
I will shoot the piss out of it. I look forward to learning more. I have taken it apart and reassembled. To be honest a lot of what you have said to look for it has. It does not have a chrome lined barrel and it has a 1/9 twist not 1/7 but I will shoot it like hell and see if it breaks I will report back but as of now it has 600 rounds and no issues and is very accurate. The finish does seem to be weak as it scratches easily. The detail is not there either so it is no art piece. Thanks again and I will be putting this thing through the paces and will report how it does.
As long as the your rifle runs well that is the most important thing. The 1/9 twist is not a deal killer and you will have no problem firing the 55gr and 62gr rounds which make up the bulk of the .223/5.56 ammo out there. Although a chrome line barrel is definitely an advantage in terms of maintenence and durability and would definitely be my choice for a fighting rifle, if you take basic care of your barrel you should have no problem. FWIW, the GIs that fought through WWII with their M1s didn't have a chrome lined barrel and yet things still worked out.
Bottom line is that you didn't pay much money yet still have a rifle that runs well and can provide you with years of enjoyment. Even in the home defense/civil unrest role, your high standard still has more capability than what at least 98% of the general public has.
I have to warn you that ARs are very addictive and when you buy your second AR, I would go with a Colt, DD, or BCM.
That makes no sense to me. Why not just get the quality gun? It works the same (manual of operations) and by the time you replace the parts that suck on a Smith gun, it'd be almost the same price.
If you're gonna get him a beater, give him a gun that can take the beating.
That's my take, IMHO.
Fully agree. First car and first rifle are apples to oranges.
Doc. Holiday
10-30-12, 13:52
As far as that list that you posted, this has been floating around gun forums for years now and is simply not accurate. . . POF machines their own lowers out of billet aluminum. . .
+1 I was about to say that POF does their own. That list is really antiquated, nice try on doing your own "do dilligence". With that attitude, you will know your stuff in no time. Just make sure you look at dates when it comes to info. In the gun world, major changes can happen in a very short time period.
MiamiCracker
10-30-12, 16:18
So what exactly happens to a "non-fighting"/plinking rifle when it gets to a high round count?
DeltaSierra
10-30-12, 16:25
When my son wanted his first car I didn't recommend that he go out and purchase a Lambo or a Ferrari. No, I helped him find a "beater" that he could LEARN on/with. Again no, it wasn't going to last him a lifetime. ( it stayed alive till he upgraded to his first new car, about 3 yrs)
May I suggest that you take a look at this recent post by JSantoro before posting any more nonsense like the above quote.....?
Good gods, the absolute horror of car/gun analogies....
You went with a fragile, tempermental Guinea sled that makes one's ass feel like it's being dragged across the ground in a bucket...?
Mantastic.
The Army and the Marine Corps are handing out the Lamborghini of the AR-pattern offerings to the so-new-they-squeek recruits at boot camps...?
Awesomesauce.
If we're gonna keep with the jacked-up vehicle comparisons, they're handing them a Toyota Tacoma.
For car/gun analogies to work, they have to be parsed down to such specifics IOT fill the giant logical holes they're riddled with that it's fruitless....which is made even worse when the jackwagon making the analogy thinks of Colt 6920s as the Lambo of the AR-pattern guns.
Sticking with a truly, utterly horrible analogy.....If you want to teach somebody to "drive" by "sticking them behind the wheel" of a "Pinto" instead of what's actually more of a "Honda," or "Volkswagon" than anything even approaching a "Lamborghini," that's just ducky; your business, your call. No question, whatsoever.
However, don't try to fit yourself for a halo for being unable to accurately and realistically figure out the comparative values of what's available on the market.
And, lose the attitude, or keep your finger away from the Submit button, or take it to PM.
Bro.
cthompson36
10-30-12, 16:42
dont worry about the purchase. since you aren't goin to war, you can replace parts if need be. if it suits your needs then it was a good purchase.
I have read before that High Standard AR15's were made by CMMG.
The Bulldawg
10-30-12, 16:47
Another cheap plinker paper gun....
The Bulldawg
10-30-12, 16:49
The cheapest plinker is the one on the bottom.
RogerinTPA
10-30-12, 21:43
You have really poor future-time orientation.
I don't know why the heck people go and buy something, and then go and ask others about it. It's ass backwards.
Please don't vote.
LOL! This really cracked me up.:p but true non the less.
OP: The truth is, threads like this happens ALL the time. These kinda threads have been slowing down, but there seems to be an up tick in them. It's almost cyclic in nature. The typical thread: Member buys the most non quality AR out there, then posts about having done research and read the stickies in the Knowledge base threads, or have looked/lurked around for quite a while, then tries to validate his purchase after the fact. Anyone on this forum for any length of time, would have known better. Should have used your time 'lurking' reading and searching for relevant info, instead of looking at pics or posting in GD. M4C is not TOS or any other online weapons forum. It is really not geared towards the novice shooter or first AR kinda guy. It was set up that way from the beginning. For professional and serious civilian shooters. We will try to assist new folks coming in, IF you do your part and do some research (reading all the stickies in the Knowledge base threads) by using the Orange search button first. We don't hold your hand and expect new folks to do there own leg work, but we will provide guidance, for better or worse. As far as I'm concerned, these type of post are a nuisance, just like GD, and detracts from the overall purpose of this forum.
New members should be automatically directed to read all the relevant threads and stickies, before being allowed to post, especially the M4C mission statement.
The Bulldawg
10-31-12, 09:46
LOL! This really cracked me up.:p but true non the less.
OP: The truth is, threads like this happens ALL the time. These kinda threads have been slowing down, but there seems to be an up tick in them. It's almost cyclic in nature. The typical thread: Member buys the most non quality AR out there, then posts about having done research and read the stickies in the Knowledge base threads, or have looked/lurked around for quite a while, then tries to validate his purchase after the fact. Anyone on this forum for any length of time, would have known better. Should have used your time 'lurking' reading and searching for relevant info, instead of looking at pics or posting in GD. M4C is not TOS or any other online weapons forum. It is really not geared towards the novice shooter or first AR kinda guy. It was set up that way from the beginning. For professional and serious civilian shooters. We will try to assist new folks coming in, IF you do your part and do some research (reading all the stickies in the Knowledge base threads) by using the Orange search button first. We don't hold your hand and expect new folks to do there own leg work, but we will provide guidance, for better or worse. As far as I'm concerned, these type of post are a nuisance, just like GD, and detracts from the overall purpose of this forum.
New members should be automatically directed to read all the relevant threads and stickies, before being allowed to post, especially the M4C mission statement.
I believe my title to the thread was quite honest in that I did make a mistake. Yea I wish I had found the sight prior, hindsight being what it is today. I put in to register on this site and it took 3 weeks to activate so I was unable to use the search engine. In that time I was unable to find information on what I bought which was a red flag. It has 600 rounds run through it which is not much without any problems at all. I also never said I did any research in fact I did none only listened to the sales pitch that was tossed at me. I was with a buddy and before I knew it we left with 2 High Standards. Yea not very wise and to be quite frank it will be a hand me down to my 12 year old. In fact I bought a BCM last night after looking at one for some time at a shop yesterday. It should be at the shop tomorrow that I had it shipped to. I will shoot the piss out of both and then and let the cards fall as they may.
Cheers
You have really poor future-time orientation.
I don't know why the heck people go and buy something, and then go and ask others about it. It's ass backwards.
Please don't vote.
This.
I think it is because people don't want to know it was a bad deal until after they bought it because it was so cheap they couldn't turn it down and they couldn't talk themselves into spending a BIT more to get a decent quality gun. Maybe not, but just my thoughts.
The Bulldawg
10-31-12, 10:04
This.
I think it is because people don't want to know it was a bad deal until after they bought it because it was so cheap they couldn't turn it down and they couldn't talk themselves into spending a BIT more to get a decent quality gun. Maybe not, but just my thoughts.
Nah not my reason at all. I have been a bolt guy and handgun guy forever and never really got into the AR craze so to speak. I had gone to the shop to buy my wife a new .243 Remingtin model 700 which I did. While there I saw an AR on the wall and bought one as did my buddy and business partner. Simple and stupid as that. I am fortunate to have a great business and have the ability to do so. My business was also formed from making stupid choices as well.Bought a BCM last night .Gotta love this State of Texas economy.....
Cheers
JohnnyNumbers
10-31-12, 10:20
I bought a BCM last night after looking at one for some time at a shop yesterday. It should be at the shop tomorrow that I had it shipped to. I will shoot the piss out of both and them and let the cards fall as they may.
BCM...Now your stepping into a quality AR that is very well built and capable of handling whatever you can dish out. Good choice!
As far as this thread...
Even though you have stated that you made a mistake by not researching your purchase and fell for the shtick of a salesman pushing an inferior product...you're never going to win, and it doesn't matter how you explain yourself. If it were me...I would ask the mods to close this thread and then just go about my business.
Good luck in the future and welcome to M4C. ;)
Doc. Holiday
10-31-12, 10:29
BCM is a good choice. I've been looking at their uppers for sometime now.
The Bulldawg
10-31-12, 10:32
BCM...Now your stepping into a quality AR that is very well built and capable of handling whatever you can dish out. Good choice!
As far as this thread...
Even though you have stated that you made a mistake by not researching your purchase and fell for the shtick of a salesman pushing an inferior product...you're never going to win, and it doesn't matter how you explain yourself. If it were me...I would ask the mods to close this thread and then just go about my business.
Good luck in the future and welcome to M4C. ;)
Thanks and lesson learned. I will be getting my info here on future AR purchases I am hooked. Yea bought a BCM M4 CARBINE MOD 2..Excited to pick it up and run the hell out of it at the ranch. I set up some gongs and bought a bunch of pumpkins on the cheap filled the back of my truck up:)
Congrats on both rifles. I hope they both serve you well.
Threads like this are retarded. Do we really need 4 pages of meaningless discussion to justify some dudes purchase?
SilverTongueDevil
10-31-12, 16:37
Who ask after they buy this guy does lol
You have really poor future-time orientation.
I don't know why the heck people go and buy something, and then go and ask others about it. It's ass backwards.
Please don't vote.
I'm sorry for the irrelevance of my post as I have nothing of value to add, but I felt compelled to say this:
(This is not a response to the OP, it is in response only to the quoted post.)
That made me LOL for real.
Well, maybe I do have something to add.... When I got the idea to buy my first AR platform rifle, I googled AR rifle forums. I found two: this one and the other one, and I quickly scanned over both of them. One reminded me of the Mickey Mouse Club, but this one seemed to offer a lot of information. Information in the form of general threads as well as a wealth of technical stickies and such. After a few days of reading as a quest I decided to buy a Colt and to join this forum.
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