View Full Version : Battle Rifle Company
clmarshall21
10-31-12, 11:14
Anyone heard of these guys? Anyone own one of their rifles?
Battle Rifle Company (http://www.battleriflecompany.com)
I saw one in my LGS (the BR-15 LIT) and gave it a quick look over. The fella behind the counter told me that the manufacturer is local so that sparked my interest right away.
Needless to say, my look over didn't tell me much about the gun's quality so I checked out their website when I got home in search of a spec sheet. I found what I was looking for and I also came across this interesting gem....
BR-177 (http://www.battleriflecompany.com/content/our_rifles/br177.asp)
Im no SME, but this looks pretty pointless... And perhaps directed towards the customer who thinks having an 11.5" barrel sounds "cool!" Add a permed 5.5" FH to that and you have just wasted 3" of what could have been functional barrel material (as compared to a 14.5" w/ permed FH). If anyone has any input on what this configuration is good for, I would love to hear it.
Let me just say, I didn't come here with this topic to beat on these guys. Just curious as to if anyone here has any experience with any of their products.
Personally, their spec sheet and a few other detials mentioned on their website, don't put them on my "gotta have that" list.
Color fill lower, UTGish quad rail, and listing MV on the specs page? All for more than a 6920 or BCM? Clown shoes.
Still glad I went with the LMT.
just a scout
10-31-12, 19:41
I'll stick with my BCMs, thanks.
Battle Rifle Guy
12-27-12, 10:46
I thought I would give you a little insight on this rifle- its our nostalgic weapon from the Vietnam era. the XM177 Commando was the first SBR ever, and this was issued to helicopter pilots, Tankers and Special Ops(Green Berets) from 68-74. this is our version, upgraded with a rail and our flash suppressor. It was made at the request originally from one of my veteran customers, and showed interest among a number of folks- all of whom are vietnam veterans.
As for the rest of our rifles- the difference is in the shooting- and you are more than welcome to come and test fire any of our rifles straight off the rack- any time. We build a quality precision rifle, we have over 30 years of experience building- we have over 25 different features added to our rifles that make them "Milspec-Plus", including some proprietary things like a flash suppressor that eliminates 98% on the flash, and our own Battle Rifle Combat Trigger- a single stage trigger that is set at 3.5-4.5 lbs with a rapid reset- smooth and quick- included with every rifle. a lot of value added features like a 2 piece rail( made in Utah) 6 position Stock(made in Ohio) single point sling backplate(made in Arizona) M16 bolt carrier group(Made in North Carolina) custom pistol grip (Made in New Mexico) make this an All American Gun. We build hem with pride and with skill- we stand behind every rifle- we have the best customer service- and we are not afraid to prove it. If you are local or ever in the Clear Lake Area of Houston and want to see what makes a Battle Rifle so special you can give us a call- 281-777-0316 and we will be happy to show you. you can see all of our rifles at www.battleriflecompany.com or keep up with us on the Battle Rifle Company Facebook page. Thanks guys- take care.:D
I thought I would give you a little insight on this rifle- its our nostalgic weapon from the Vietnam era. the XM177 Commando was the first SBR ever, and this was issued to helicopter pilots, Tankers and Special Ops(Green Berets) from 68-74. this is our version, upgraded with a rail and our flash suppressor. It was made at the request originally from one of my veteran customers, and showed interest among a number of folks- all of whom are vietnam veterans.
As for the rest of our rifles- the difference is in the shooting- and you are more than welcome to come and test fire any of our rifles straight off the rack- any time. We build a quality precision rifle, we have over 30 years of experience building- we have over 25 different features added to our rifles that make them "Milspec-Plus", including some proprietary things like a flash suppressor that eliminates 98% on the flash, and our own Battle Rifle Combat Trigger- a single stage trigger that is set at 3.5-4.5 lbs with a rapid reset- smooth and quick- included with every rifle. a lot of value added features like a 2 piece rail( made in Utah) 6 position Stock(made in Ohio) single point sling backplate(made in Arizona) M16 bolt carrier group(Made in North Carolina) custom pistol grip (Made in New Mexico) make this an All American Gun. We build hem with pride and with skill- we stand behind every rifle- we have the best customer service- and we are not afraid to prove it. If you are local or ever in the Clear Lake Area of Houston and want to see what makes a Battle Rifle so special you can give us a call- 281-777-0316 and we will be happy to show you. you can see all of our rifles at www.battleriflecompany.com or keep up with us on the Battle Rifle Company Facebook page. Thanks guys- take care.:D
I'd like to know the story behind the resized gas port. What's wrong with the "normal" gas port?
Battle Rifle Guy
12-27-12, 11:22
some of the barrels need a bit more gas to work a little stronger with the heavier M16 BCG- some require some "channeling" depending on the gas block you use for some of the custom guns we build. it helps to make the action more efficient, better performance over a longer period, helps with higher cyclic rate and improves total burn.
we get our barrels from a couple of sources, and what we do is standardize, make sure they are ported correctly, expand as we need to- its part of our overall quality standard.- the end result to you, the shooter is, more reliability and performance. you can always write me if you have a question and we are here to help- chris@battleriflecompany.com I am happy to share what we can!
Battle Rifle Guy
12-27-12, 14:45
Agreed! we initially started with 1/9 twist- but since mid 2012, we have transitioned to 1/7 twist, as our shooters are going to a heavier round. all of our guns these days have 1/7:D
some of the barrels need a bit more gas to work a little stronger with the heavier M16 BCG- some require some "channeling" depending on the gas block you use for some of the custom guns we build. it helps to make the action more efficient, better performance over a longer period, helps with higher cyclic rate and improves total burn.
we get our barrels from a couple of sources, and what we do is standardize, make sure they are ported correctly, expand as we need to- its part of our overall quality standard.- the end result to you, the shooter is, more reliability and performance. you can always write me if you have a question and we are here to help- chris@battleriflecompany.com I am happy to share what we can!
What do you mean by "channeling" on the gas port?
Battle Rifle Guy
12-27-12, 18:44
Channeling is something we do when the gas blocks have large holes, and w take the tip of the drill bit and create a small cup around the gasport hole in the barrel- like 1/32 . secret trick to better performance. can't say anymore without having you sign a non-disclosure statement. LOL only certain gas blocks need that. :secret:
Would you care to disclose what size gas ports you are using?
Who makes the barrels?
Are the barrels and bolts HP/MPI tested?
Have you guys actually done test firing with the 75gr. ammunition to determine if they will group well?
Why did you choose a 1/9 twist?
Channeling is something we do when the gas blocks have large holes, and w take the tip of the drill bit and create a small cup around the gasport hole in the barrel- like 1/32 . secret trick to better performance. can't say anymore without having you sign a non-disclosure statement. LOL only certain gas blocks need that. :secret:
Battle Rifle Guy
12-27-12, 19:48
we test fited with 69gr and 77gr- better groupings in 1/7 twist - that is why we switched to the 1/7 twist in mid 2012. our barrels come from a number of top name manufacturers, and over the years we keep building our relationships with the best suppliers- because we are building a quality product. our barrels and bolts are made by the same people who build them for our military- then we take them and cryogenically treat them so they last longer. with an increase in volume we are looking at going CHF- direct to FN. our carriers are HPT/MPI tested, we offer Nickel Boron upgrades to the carriers and bolts, which are made from Carpenter 158 and either 6820 or 416s steel for the carriers( brand equivalent) we make some of our own items and buy the best steel- 4140/4150 gunbarrel steel. its all top of the line components. we will be at SHOTSHOW this year- so if you come you'll be able to touch and feel these guns- try the trigger(we are very proud of our trigger) we will be releasing our 308, and previewing our most awesome 6mm x 45, which is such an powerful gun.
Battle Rifle Guy
12-27-12, 19:58
to find out everything about our rifles, go to our web page- there it will tell you why are rifles are so special. www.battleriflecompany.com
"Assault tactical rifle"? Feed the Feinstein Frankenstein why don't ya? Jeez......maybe try to get "Assault rifle" off the page considering the climate..........
http://fellowshipofminds.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/dianne_feinstein.jpg
clmarshall21
12-27-12, 20:13
Battle Rifle Guy,
Thanks for taking the time to entertain the questions. Like I said originally, I saw one of your rifles at a LGS and went straight to the web to check the specs. I found the spec sheet to be short a few key details...
It doesn't list the barrel or bolt materials, if they were subject to HP/MP testing or not, its specific chamber (.223, 5.56, Wylde), carrier key and castle nut staking, that the barrels are 1/7 twist (they are still listed as 1/9), gas length, and I can't even locate if the barrels are chrome lined or not. I do see that you have addressed a few of those details in this thread already.
Could you shed more light on what cryo treating does exactly?
What is meant by "Polished Chamber", "Polished Bolt", and "Polished Feed Ramps"?
I noticed that you list the accuracy expectation as 1/2 to 1 MOA (for the 1/9 barrels anyways). That is impressive accuracy for a chrome lined barrel (but I guess I don't know if they are chrome lined or not). Are you seeing the same results with the 1/7 twist barrels that you have switched to?
Also, does Battle Rifle Company offer any gunsmithing services?
Is the Battle Rifle trigger sold individually, and if so, for how much?
MelloYellow
12-27-12, 21:38
This is awesome.
This guys taking it from all sides.
Hey...can you not call it an AR15? Kind of a bad idea. Hey...dont even call it a gun. Call it a gum drop stick.
While you are at it, who makes the plastic used in the stock? Is it mil spec?
When you tested the barrel was it 88° with 72% humidity? Because those are the ideal conditions.
I only have one comment. It sort of bugs me that everyone says "no thanks" to 1:9 twist barrels. They have their place with the lighter bullets for sure, so don't be so quick to relegate them to the junk pile of opinion.
I have one AR in 1:9 and it's every bit as accurate as any other with a 60 grain bullet. Just as accurate as my 3 others with 1:7.
They all have their place, so don't think your AR is junk if it has a 1:9 twist! Just stay closer to 60 grains max, for a bullet weight.
Why give the guy from Battle Rifle all the lip? He seemed nice enough to come on board and discuss his products. Over the years I have been happy to see new AR building companies offer some unique products. Even better when reps of these companies take the time to respond directly to online board members. Not every firearm scores high on "The Chart", but even I have been issued sidearms and carbines years back (sporting the Colt logo) that were problematic and would be better suited as a rock or club. My first carbine was in fact a well used XM177 and would be strapped in behind my seat in an OH-6. It was good for about 15 rounds then jam. Would clear it and another 15-20 rounds then jam. Constant trips to the armourers but never totally reliable.
The Battle Rifle guy was even nice in offering the chance to check out their weapons at their facility. If I was closer, I would be happy to take him up on that offer.
buckpatriot
12-27-12, 22:39
I agree that with all the BS that is coming from the Left on our firearms, I think it is great to see some new manufacturers jumping into the ring. Competition and time will weed them out or make them better and they will survive with a good product. I love Capitalism!
Good luck!
Battle Rifle Guy
12-27-12, 23:05
Its OK- everyone is curious- so I don't mind. its nice to see the interest. I'm not a Rep- I'm the owner. you'll always get me- i keep myself available. if you call with a question, i'll try and answer it. if you have an idea, I'll listen (like removing the word Assault in this political environment- Tactical works!)
I will have to go over with my web gal- I thought she had caught all the changes- but we are 1/7 these days, because folks are going to the bigger bullet.
someone asked about Cryo- new technology, over the last 10 years or so for the firearms industry, but aerospace and racing have used it for years. Cryogenic treatment aligns the molecules in the metal, making it stronger, less maliable, better performance when heated, easier to clean, more durable. with cryo treatment, the 30,000 round barrel will go 50,000 rds- the better performance in heat means that the barrel will shoot truer- which means tighter shot groups- yes tighter MOA. it works best on the chrome molly- really makes no difference that we have seen with chrome lined.
the Battle Rifle Combat Trigger is offered seperately- we can also provide a "Extreme Makeover" of your AR15 and make it to Battle Rifle standard. if you have one of those strictly discount guns, we can go through it, change out and redo your rifle- prices range between $375- $475 depending on how much work or parts need to be replaced and worked. when you are done, you have a whole new weapon.
like I said, the difference is in the firing. there is NOTHING BETTER than the Chunk-ka-chunk-ka-chunk of a tripple tap with one of our rifles. solid feel, the more you shoot the more it wants. 2 steps short of a heavenly experience-
we are mainly in the Houston Area, but we are becoming know around the country. we are maketing primarily to law enforcement, but we do sell to the public. Thank you for allowing me the chance to talk with you, and i hope each of you get a chance to see our rifles. if you have any questions write me direct- chris@battleriflecompany.com
As for calling it an Assault Rifle, you don't see ( for example) Daniel Defense, Bravo Company, or Colt going there in their advertising, because thats what these assbackwards gungrab/gun demonizing libtardlings you see on TV 24/7 call our semi rifles. Semantics, terminology whatever......it makes me want to puke everytime I hear Ass ,Salt and Rifle together. HOWEVER, after re reading the options on these guns, I see BRG offers a fun switch so I'll rescind my comment from earlier, if he wants to call it an assault rifle go right ahead. I for one WOULD prefer calling semi automatic AR15s gumdrop @#$@ing fairy hairy ball blasters ( imagine that coming out of Schweinstein's mouth) instead of assault rifles at any cost, but thats just my opinion.
Good luck BRG.......!
theblackknight
12-28-12, 01:05
His BCG's are HPT/MPI.
Battle Rifle Guy
12-28-12, 01:24
if you guys want a sticker- shoot me an email to chris@battleriflecompany.com with your actual address, city state and zip, and I will mail you a sticker you can cover over that scratch you got on the bumper the last time your wife sent you to the grocery store!:blink:
I for one am not going to be so quick to judge. I believe these guys might be worth checking out.
Every company out there had to start small. I hope it works out for them. If the product is good, capitalism will work in their favor.
Vegasshooter
12-28-12, 07:31
I have to compliment this gentleman for his professionalism and his guts to jump in here. His tact and demeanor have at least made me want to listen and give him a chance. I don't have a high post count, but I am here every day, and some on this forum are very quick to dismiss a product if it is not wearing a Colt, Daniel Defense, BCM, or Noveske stamp. Remember folks, they were ALL new companies at one point. I am guilty of pre-judging too, for the record, I too carry a DD. Just saying that we need to give these new companies a fair shake.
Cool to see a manufacturer out of Houston, it too peaks my interest. It sounds like the cryo process is similar to what i know some aluminum baseball bat companies were doing back whern I played baseball. The cryo process made them stronger and reduced the chance of bending the barrel of the bat, which happened often on lesser quality bats.
Does the cryo process since hardening the metal and making it stronger reduce barrel erosion?
Cool to see a manufacturer out of Houston, it too peaks my interest. It sounds like the cryo process is similar to what i know some aluminum baseball bat companies were doing back whern I played baseball. The cryo process made them stronger and reduced the chance of bending the barrel of the bat, which happened often on lesser quality bats.
Does the cryo process since hardening the metal and making it stronger reduce barrel erosion?
I agree and will try to check them out next time we are near Houston. I have some experience with Cryo treatment used in brake rotors for road race cars, it added some extra life and helped the rotor to not "fade" as quickly once heated up.
I for one am not going to be so quick to judge. I believe these guys might be worth checking out.
Every company out there had to start small. I hope it works out for them. If the product is good, capitalism will work in their favor.
I agree. This company is a new player. Lets give them a chance and see how the product works. Remember, DD, Noveske, and BCM were new companies at one point, too.
BRG,
Thanks for answering questions and for being polite even though some of the arm-chair know-it-alls are being rude and ridiculous. Good luck with your company and I hope you do well with your "gum drop sticks". :haha:
I'm keeping an open mind here. The product "sounds" good. What I appreciate most is the professionalism, courtesy and apparent customer service. These things are SORELY lacking in much of our country, but especially in the gun industry. There are notable exceptions (Thanks to Matt at DD), but I find it ridiculous that you can't even get most of the "good" companies on the phone. Customer service weighs heavily in my choice of where to spend my money. I'm not going to buy a crappy product just because the guy behind the counter smiles and is polite, but if I have two similar in quality products, the outfit offering the best support and customer service will get my business and my recommendation too.
Thank you Chris for taking the time to educate us about your business and your products.
Mr.Anderson
12-29-12, 10:43
There is nothing wrong with "examination".
It's a growing/learning experience. I, personally, have "grown" a bit since coming here and seeing all the "examinations" taking place.
That's freakin awesome IMO. Some also call it "weeding".
In such instances, one will either rise, or fall.
It's when a problem can (and on here, WILL) be pointed out and corrected or fall to the side...
Now, I'm gonna poke fun @ Mr. Kurzadkowski and hope that the QC on the AR's are better than his QC on his punctuation in his posts! :D
As I stated, I love these kinda things when they pop up because I personally learn something new every time.
*small print*
I've shot guns my whole life (now, 35) but up until a few months ago never got into the "technical/chemical/makeup" of any fire arms.
That was until I came to M4C.net and I'm still currently taking measures to get myself squared away. It's a daily/hourly process with still having much to learn but I am enjoying myself!"
theblackknight
12-29-12, 10:53
I just want to know when it will be "ok" for companies to start making guns that exceed the milspec and people not rabble at them. Dosent Noveske make some barrels out the m249 steel with matching chrome lining? It seems like innovation is welcome everywhere else on the gun as long as you slap some typeIII hard coat on it.
sent from mah gun,using my sights
So by there spec sheets I guess they only sell class III weapons cause they all have burst rates? I though no new Class III's could be made for civie sales?:rolleyes:
So by there spec sheets I guess they only sell class III weapons cause they all have burst rates? I though no new Class III's could be made for civie sales?:rolleyes:
If you look at the owners post above you will see that his primary market is law enforcement, who do use NFA firearms. Im sure they can slow them down for the rest of the market.
:eek:
I just want to know when it will be "ok" for companies to start making guns that exceed the milspec and people not rabble at them. Dosent Noveske make some barrels out the m249 steel with matching chrome lining? It seems like innovation is welcome everywhere else on the gun as long as you slap some typeIII hard coat on it.
sent from mah gun,using my sights
Is that what the OP is making?
Better than mil-spec?
theblackknight
12-29-12, 19:47
Is that what the OP is making?
Better than mil-spec?
I dont know, Maybe cryo'ing his bolts and barrels could negate needing to MPI/HPT them. I dont know how much cryoing cost, but one process that knocks down 2 means a cheaper faster product if the quality is the same.
I just find it :rolleyes: how some on here are almost offended by a product they don't have to buy or use.
sent from mah gun,using my sights
I dont know, Maybe cryo'ing his bolts and barrels could negate needing to MPI/HPT them. I dont know how much cryoing cost, but one process that knocks down 2 means a cheaper faster product if the quality is the same.
I just find it :rolleyes: how some on here are almost offended by a product they don't have to buy or use.
sent from mah gun,using my sights
But why the hell are you talking about "better than mil-spec"? :confused:
theblackknight
12-29-12, 21:08
Cheaper product at the same/better quality= better
Is it possible that a standard the military has been using since what year can't be improved upon? I think it has, right?
Cheaper product at the same/better quality= better
Is it possible that a standard the military has been using since what year can't be improved upon? I think it has, right?
What do you believe Battle Rifle Company is using/doing that improves upon the mil-spec, and how/why?
Dessert Fox
12-29-12, 21:25
I just want to know one thing: Can we buy stripped lowers from yall right now?
I just want to know one thing: Can we buy stripped lowers from yall right now?
And THAT truly is the question of the day
And THAT truly is the question of the day
True ... and could we get one that has safe/semi/burst engravings, even if the parts wouldn't allow it? That would be an interesting twist on the usual offerings. (is that even legal?)
True ... and could we get one that has safe/semi/burst engravings, even if the parts wouldn't allow it? That would be an interesting twist on the usual offerings. (is that even legal?)
Legal to engrave the receiver to indicate a burst or auto selection option that doesn't actually exist?
I'm pretty sure it is, but IANAL
And THAT truly is the question of the day
I can confidently say that after talking to Chris today for about 30 min that they are using all the parts they have to build guns for customers. Plus with SHOT coming they need stuff to take with them.
Can't you just see;
"Hey Mr. BRC your booth is empty"
"Yeah, we messed up and sold all our extra lowers so we couldn't build any show guns, Whoops!":no:
What do you believe Battle Rifle Company is using/doing that improves upon the mil-spec, and how/why?
Go back and read post # 6 of this thread - Battle Rifle Guy uses the term "Milspec-Plus".
Why do you not believe it is not an improvement to the "Milspec Standard"?
Why are you busting his balls?
Go back and read post # 6 of this thread - Battle Rifle Guy uses the term "Milspec-Plus".
Why do you not believe it is not an improvement to the "Milspec Standard"?
Why are you busting his balls?
So I should just believe that whatever he did is an improvement because his term suggests that it is?
Do you believe these rifles are better than mil-spec? If so, why? I'm curious, I'm not saying otherwise, I'm just asking...are they? And why?
So I should just believe that whatever he did is an improvement because his term suggests that it is?
Do you believe these rifles are better than mil-spec? If so, why? I'm curious, I'm not saying otherwise, I'm just asking...are they? And why?
So I just re-read the post - A rep of the company states their rifles contain 25 features that make them "milspec-plus". I believe him after reading it.
Why dont you?
It costs about the same as a Colt 6933 with a Troy Alpha rail, so you'll have to pardon the questions and/or skepticism. For the same price it should be at least equal quality.
Mr.Anderson
12-29-12, 23:47
True ... and could we get one that has safe/semi/burst engravings, even if the parts wouldn't allow it? That would be an interesting twist on the usual offerings. (is that even legal?)
I was under the impression that if an ATF Agent walks up and can make your gun fire multiple times with one pull of the trigger, it is considered an AUTO.
If he cannot w/out modifying the gun, then it is NOT considered AUTO.
Also, I 2nd, IANAL. But I did read this in another thread I believe when someone was concerned about their gun firing FA once "accidentally".
So I just re-read the post - A rep of the company states their rifles contain 25 features that make them "milspec-plus". I believe him after reading it.
Why dont you?
What are those 25 features, and why are they better than mil-spec?
So I just re-read the post - A rep of the company states their rifles contain 25 features that make them "milspec-plus". I believe him after reading it.
Why dont you?
Because Bushmaster, Stag, Oly, and Del-Ton say the same thing.
theblackknight
12-30-12, 02:02
What do you believe Battle Rifle Company is using/doing that improves upon the mil-spec, and how/why?
I don't.
sent from mah gun,using my sights
ScatmanCrothers
12-30-12, 06:41
So I just re-read the post - A rep of the company states their rifles contain 25 features that make them "milspec-plus". I believe him after reading it.
Why dont you?
I honestly can't tell if you're serious.
Providing some sort of tangible data showing an improvement from their unique process to back up these claims would be a start. Making products readily available to customers to get their input would work as well. Stating opinions in hopes of selling complete rifles through limited vendors will make it tougher for word of mouth to spread if there really is a "milspec-plus" improvement.
That being said, being at Shot will give somewhat of an opportunity for recognition so we'll see how that goes.
Legal to engrave the receiver to indicate a burst or auto selection option that doesn't actually exist?
I'm pretty sure it is, but IANAL
Yes, exactly.
Purely cosmetic reasons - no actual desire play with the innards, then become the play toy of a big guy in the Pen.
Oh, and I had to look up that acronym. First time I've seen it.
I honestly can't tell if you're serious.
Providing some sort of tangible data showing an improvement from their unique process to back up these claims would be a start. Making products readily available to customers to get their input would work as well. Stating opinions in hopes of selling complete rifles through limited vendors will make it tougher for word of mouth to spread if there really is a "milspec-plus" improvement.
That being said, being at Shot will give somewhat of an opportunity for recognition so we'll see how that goes.
The company is attending Shot. If some of you are so interested in taking shots at the company, go to Shot.
I think everyone should just take a deep breath and just relax. It will be ok. People will buy the rifle, test it, and report back. This is how this stuff works. Give the company a chance to prove their product. This is still a free country right?:confused:
ScatmanCrothers
12-30-12, 10:41
The company is attending Shot. If some of you are so interested in taking shots at the company, go to Shot.
I think everyone should just take a deep breath and just relax. It will be ok. People will buy the rifle, test it, and report back. This is how this stuff works. Give the company a chance to prove their product. This is still a free country right?:confused:
Not sure why you quoted me as an example of taking a shot at the company. Just explaining why some won't heed the owner's bold claims as truth without proof when so many other companies do the same thing based purely off of their own personal opinion. And yes, you're right, people will buy their product and give their opinion. Welcome to the world of consumerism.
If Shot reviews go well and one of their weapons become available to me then there's a good chance I will see what it's all about. I won't, however, pay the same amount being charged by established companies for a gun I know nothing about because of claims on a message board. That's just me.
Battle Rifle Guy
12-30-12, 11:44
Hi guys- i popped in to touch base with everyone and see there is a lot of stuff going on, so i wanted to answer any questions.
Our rifle information- the data provided give all the "raw" data on the weapon. we make a civilian version, and those cyclic rates are listed- you'll see "semi" and "sustained" - these would apply to the civilian version of this rifle. let me explain the difference-
Semi- stand on firing line and pull trigger one after another until magazine empty
Sustained- stand on firing line, aim, pull trigger, actually hit something.:D
this is one of those things where if it applies to you, or in this case to your rifle, then you're OK.
Milspec-Plus
Milspec is an informal term used in place of MIL- STD which is an abbreviation for Military Standards, or Defence Standards, and is a measure to achieve standardization by the Department of Defence. Our claim of MilSpec- Plus merely indicated that we have gone beyond the standard and made enhancements to the rifle beyond the point of measure. to see all those points, if you go to our website, www.battleriflecompany.com and go under he section called, "what makes our rifles so special" we point out to you all the things that are above Milspec that we include with every rifle straight off the line.
cost of the rifle- no doubt this will be of great concern to all, especially to some of you younger troopers- in this business, I can tell you- you really do get what you pay for- except for Colt:eek:
(here is a secret- the same machines that make colt recievers make Battle Rifle Recievers!):secret:
we build a value added rifle- it has both additional components of a higher standard, as well as gunsmith work done on the build line by people who know what they are doing. we started with $1,000 and a dream, building one rifle at a time, step by step, inch by inch and have not asked for a handout, have not applied for a loan, have not bought or paid off anyone to get ahead. we build a rifle for our customer, we build it with the absolute best parts, skill and energy we can muster. we check and check and check again to make sure everything works- so you can pull it out of the bag, slam a 30 into it, and go to work. it really is all about the value and what you place on it.
I have a customer, he is a trainer/instructor for Special Operations and SWAT here locally come by a bit ago. he was brought by a friend who was a novice, but knew we had a product worth looking at. the gentleman looked our rifles over, went to our test fire booth, fired it and came out of there with an ear to ear grin, happy, amazed and promptly ordered 2 rifles for his students to fire on his course. They were our standard BR4 Spectre- only difference was a Nickel Boron BCG and our own Enhanced Combat Stock.
lastly, i think everyone sometimes looks at something new in this business and has a certain amount of Skepticism. Afterall, there are a number of fast player, money hungry companies out there that will sell you a rifle and then tell you we are too busy to fix or answer questions. Our company is solid, founded on core values-
Our product is our Pride, Passion and Honor- and it will not be compromised
We build every rifle as if our life depended on it
We will work to find new and better ways
we will respect and honor our customers
we will share our knowledge as we go
we will always make ourselves available to help
we will be professional- and let our rifle do the talking
Oh, and for that one gentleman who made a comment about my spelling- uhhh, i did that on purpose, I think? :confused: but I'll have you know I won the 3rd grade spelling Bee in my school :D I promize 2 lern 2 spel beter.
Happy New Year to you all! if you want a sticker- send me an email- chris@battleriflecompany.com
Battle Rifle Guy
12-30-12, 11:53
And if you would like an opportunity to go to the Happy Room- that's our Test Booth- ( it turns men into boys, because the come out of there all giggly and happy) then call me for an appointment to come in 281-777-0316
we are in Seabrook Texas- come see me and shoot the rifle.
if you go to our website, www.battleriflecompany.com and go under he section called, "what makes our rifles so special" we point out to you all the things that are above Milspec that we include with every rifle straight off the line.
What does "polished chamber" mean?
What do you do that constitutes a "cryogenic treated barrel"? What are the benefits of this?
What steel are the barrels made of?
Are the barrels chrome lined?
What does "polished feed ramp" mean and what advantages does that offer?
And I'm still wondering what the 25 features that exceed mil-spec are supposed to be. You said to see this link to find out what they are, but I don't see them. Are you counting: Detachable carry handle, butstock pad, 6 position collapsible stock, A2 rear sight, rail covers, etc as making the rifle better than mil-spec?
Seriously man...what are you trying to sell here?
cost of the rifle- no doubt this will be of great concern to all, especially to some of you younger troopers- in this business, I can tell you- you really do get what you pay for- except for Colt:eek:
(here is a secret- the same machines that make colt recievers make Battle Rifle Recievers!):secret:
Please, tell us more about this.
cost of the rifle- no doubt this will be of great concern to all, especially to some of you younger troopers- in this business, I can tell you- you really do get what you pay for- except for Colt:eek:
(here is a secret- the same machines that make colt recievers make Battle Rifle Recievers!):secret:
My Colts cost me the same as your rifles. So would I not be getting what I paid for with your rifle too? Come on man, Colts are the most battle tested rifles out there as far as the AR platform is concerned. I'm all for start up companies, but there's still a LOT to be proven beyond claims here. furthermore, I've spent 10%+ of my life carrying a Colt in a hostile environment. I can't let that slide.
Not being rude it's just what I see here. Good luck and I wish you the best with your business.
My Colts cost me the same as your rifles. So would I not be getting what I paid for with your rifle too? Come on man, Colts are the most battle tested rifles out there as far as the AR platform is concerned. I'm all for start up companies, but there's still a LOT to be proven beyond claims here. furthermore, I've spent 10%+ of my life carrying a Colt in a hostile environment. I can't let that slide.
Not being rude it's just what I see here. Good luck and I wish you the best with your business.
But Colt doesn't use cryogenic treatment on their barrels. Therefore, Colt is inferior.
I feel like I've read the "made by the same people who make" line before.
Can you please tell us about the flash hider and why I'd pick it over something else?
Can you tell us about the polished parts and how they are an improvement over the same parts not polished?
Can you tell us why cryogenically treated barrels are superior to non-cryo barrels?
Can you explain the resized gas port in light of some companies tightening it up to account for the AR being generally overgased?
-B
What about this:
"All of our rifles are featured with matched uppers and lowers with extremely tight tolerances for reliable performance"
Are you saying that play between the upper and lower affects reliability ?
juliomorris
12-30-12, 14:57
Give them a chance. How many manufacturers are willing to throw out an invitation like this he has even given you his number to call and set up the appointment. I don't know of any others like Colt BCM DD LMT PSA or any other manufacturers do this.
Give them a chance. How many manufacturers are willing to throw out an invitation like this he has even given you his number to call and set up the appointment. I don't know of any others like Colt BCM DD LMT PSA or any other manufacturers do this.
He had a chance to answer direct, straightforward questions, and all he did was tell us to go look at the website.
But he is getting another chance. Perhaps he will answer some (all?) of the questions that have been put forth?
Battle Rifle Guy
12-30-12, 15:34
this is for Warp-
Polished chamber- high speed tool is used to polish the chamber- clear from any oils,dirt, protective coatings, residue, burrs, rough edges that may have been left behind during the cutting,reaming, lapping, installation of the barrel extension and cryo coating of the barrel. there is a lot of buildup- #1 cause of weapon failure to cycle when brand new. we polish the chamber, the feed ramps and the bolt face
the Cryogenic process involves taking your item and lowering the temperature to approx 300 degrees below zero with liquid nitrogen, in a bath where it sits in the fumes, just above the nitrogen for a 12-24 hour period, depending on the component, then raising the heat tto 150 degrees above zero to set off the molecule alignment process. the benefits are longer lasting barrel life, easier to clean, easier to machine, tighter shot groups
our barrel- we are not re inventing the wheel here- 4140/4150 Tempered Heat treated gun metal- the barrels are button finish, phosphate coated, air guaged, pressure tested. some models are chrome lined. the majority are CMV, made by the same maufacturers that make everybody elses barrels.
Polishing the feed ramps prevent load ramp errors and are fee of snags, crud and other things that build up at the entrance to the chamber. the round is stripped away form the magazine, rides the feed ramp till the bullet portion enters the chamber.
juliomorris
12-30-12, 16:34
Some of the questions are pretty basic, like whats a polished chamber, polished feed ramps and what are their benefits.
Now yes I would be interested in the cryo treatment but it is easily googled now does it really do as advertised that is still up for debate(the only benefit I have ever seen is they are easier to clean) I haven't ever seen any proof one way or the other.
Isthe chamber and bore chrome lined is a good question.
Barrel steel 4140/4150?
I would be more interested in the trigger or the gas port sizing than chamber polishing or feed ramps.
Try being polite. The guy is trying.
The Bulldawg
12-30-12, 16:39
And if you would like an opportunity to go to the Happy Room- that's our Test Booth- ( it turns men into boys, because the come out of there all giggly and happy) then call me for an appointment to come in 281-777-0316
we are in Seabrook Texas- come see me and shoot the rifle.
I work in Seabrook and would love to check out your product. I believe I checked out one of your rifles at The Arms Room? Guys there had good stuff to say.Man small world I am right around the corner from Marburgers.
Battle Rifle Guy
12-30-12, 16:51
Bulldawg- Quick- drop everything you are doing- call me on the phone- 281-777-0316
come to my place- pick any rifle out of the vault
shoot it
then get back on here and let everyone know how it is-
because the las time i got hammered like this was when I had to answer questions to get my Top Secret Nuclear Clearance!
txf15crewchief
12-30-12, 17:11
Look forward to hearing more about this company; would love to have even more options in quality carbines and rifles, especially here in Southeast Texas.
The Bulldawg
12-30-12, 17:12
Bulldawg- Quick- drop everything you are doing- call me on the phone- 281-777-0316
come to my place- pick any rifle out of the vault
shoot it
then get back on here and let everyone know how it is-
because the las time i got hammered like this was when I had to answer questions to get my Top Secret Nuclear Clearance!
Lmao!! Yea this is a rough crowd on here to say the least. I most definitely will take you up on the offer. I am in the market for another rifle and to be right around the corner makes it that much better. How far behind are you? I also have one I would like you to work on to see what the difference is. I have a local competitors rifle out of Houston that is bone stock.
hotrodder636
12-30-12, 17:32
Bulldawg- Quick- drop everything you are doing- call me on the phone- 281-777-0316
come to my place- pick any rifle out of the vault
shoot it
then get back on here and let everyone know how it is-
because the las time i got hammered like this was when I had to answer questions to get my Top Secret Nuclear Clearance!
You got asked questions for yours? I don't recall getting hammered for mine.
Anyways, I appreciate that you are staying polite and professional here, as I believe it would be easy to get pissed and go off ranting. I have read your site about your rifles and until I have the opportuni to shoot one I shall not judge. That being said, I am the proud owner of multiple Colts and KACs, however I by no means am closed minded about new product. If I am ever down that way, I should like to check out your product.
I work in Seabrook and would love to check out your product. I believe I checked out one of your rifles at The Arms Room? Guys there had good stuff to say.Man small world I am right around the corner from Marburgers.
The staff at Armsandaleg Room couldn't answer a single question about this rifle (or any firearm, ever). They have good things to say about whatever happens to be on the shelf at the time.
Battle Rifle Guy
12-30-12, 17:51
Paul when you get a chance- come see me. I'll be working tomorrow so give me a call- you can come and shoot too!
we are a bit behind, but catching up on orders, slowly but surely.
i have to go build-
BTW, are there any other firearms company owners on ths forum? just curious? Hmmm?
The Bulldawg
12-30-12, 18:10
The staff at Armsandaleg Room couldn't answer a single question about this rifle (or any firearm, ever). They have good things to say about whatever happens to be on the shelf at the time.
Yea I am familiar with them as they are right across the street from me. Was letting the man know they were talking good about his product . They had Colts,Daniel Defense, Battle Rifles, Interarms and a few others that day but that was at the beginning of month. I believe I will shoot one of his rifles and if I like it I will buy it.
Mr.Anderson
12-30-12, 20:48
Oh, and for that one gentleman who made a comment about my spelling- uhhh, i did that on purpose, I think? but I'll have you know I won the 3rd grade spelling Bee in my school I promize 2 lern 2 spel beter.
No sir.
I wasn't ribbin ya about your spelling.
Rather, it was about your lack of punctuation causing run on sentences and lack of capitalization to show the beginning of a new one.
I'm not trying to play grammar Nazi. I understand not everyone is on the same level. Heck, I have to struggle at times myself to keep from using run on's lol.
Actually I kinda thought about this thread as I was reading your post:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=70019
It was recommended by JSantoro to someone else in a different thread. So, I went and read it as well.
Mechanics and Style.
The Good: Proper grammar and syntax count, and the more professionally you represent yourself in writing, the better the impression that you will make upon your fellow members.
Maybe I shoulda just PM'd you all of this. But what started out as just me pokin a bit of fun at you got me thinking about the importance of coming across "professional".(?)
Regardless :)
I do have a legit question though;
(here is a secret- the same machines that make colt recievers make Battle Rifle Recievers!)
With this statement I have to ask are your receivers to the same tolerance as Colt's receivers?
the majority are CMV, made by the same maufacturers that make everybody elses barrels.
Same question, are they to the same tolerances?
I'm open minded. In fact, I'd love to buy my next AR from a smaller grass roots kind of business.
However, a Stag Arms Model 15 (NON-"mil spec", after all) was my 1st AR as a civilian.
Then I came to M4C.net and learned a couple of things and bought a BCM 20" AR from G&Rtactical a few weeks ago.
You are certainly being Professional. But at this point in the game of things, as has been mentioned, there ARE established Brands and Names that carry weight. And as I'm sure you are rather aware of, guys that use these will not take just pick up something else that comes down the line without analyzing the crap out of it.
I do like your roll marks though and that's a cool sticker.
Battle Rifle Guy
12-30-12, 22:46
You are right. My goodness- I should have thought that way too. I am an English Major afterall. Thank you. I must confess, sometimes my fingers out pace my brain, or visa versa. I must appologize.
To answer your questions- it is common for the large companies to contract out thier work. The blueprints that are used by everyone are Colt blueprints. There are suttle differences between each, but the base diagrams are Colt.
Even more contracting is done with barrels, as there are fewer of those than other shops. Its the way the industry is.
These days the only differences are Advertising, Assembly fit and finish, Accessories and Customer Service. We work very hard to fullfill all those things, and give more value for the dollar. We add accessories, we spend time finishing parts during assembly, we stand behind our product, and yes- even things like this conversation is a way we market to our public. We are working hard to put our good name forward, one step at a time.
If you ever get a chance to, please call and come by. Happy New Year to you!
this is for Warp-
Polished chamber- high speed tool is used to polish the chamber- clear from any oils,dirt, protective coatings, residue, burrs, rough edges that may have been left behind during the cutting,reaming, lapping, installation of the barrel extension and cryo coating of the barrel. there is a lot of buildup- #1 cause of weapon failure to cycle when brand new. we polish the chamber, the feed ramps and the bolt face
the Cryogenic process involves taking your item and lowering the temperature to approx 300 degrees below zero with liquid nitrogen, in a bath where it sits in the fumes, just above the nitrogen for a 12-24 hour period, depending on the component, then raising the heat tto 150 degrees above zero to set off the molecule alignment process. the benefits are longer lasting barrel life, easier to clean, easier to machine, tighter shot groups
our barrel- we are not re inventing the wheel here- 4140/4150 Tempered Heat treated gun metal- the barrels are button finish, phosphate coated, air guaged, pressure tested. some models are chrome lined. the majority are CMV, made by the same maufacturers that make everybody elses barrels.
Polishing the feed ramps prevent load ramp errors and are fee of snags, crud and other things that build up at the entrance to the chamber. the round is stripped away form the magazine, rides the feed ramp till the bullet portion enters the chamber.
Does "high speed tool"=Dremel?
Something to remember, just because something is made on the same machines as a known quality company, doesn't mean the parts are equal. It's well known that different companies have different requirements and tolerances and manufacturers offer different "grades" of parts, so for example you can have two receivers from different companies made on the same machine, but one "in spec" part from one company would have been rejected as out of spec by the other company.
Battle Rifle Guy, back out now. If you aren't Colt, Daniel Defense or Noveske you aren't shit here. These guys will pick apart anything you say. You seem pretty forthcoming with your info and if I was anywhere near you I would take you up on your offer to handle one of your products.
Good luck with your company. It is a tough market.
I appreciate the offer to come by. I think you've given me enough info here, though. I'm sure you'll do well. Lots of potential customers in this thread alone. If you currently have any rifles at all, you should be crazy busy with the state of things.
Battle Rifle Guy, back out now. If you aren't Colt, Daniel Defense or Noveske you aren't shit here. These guys will pick apart anything you say.
That's not fair to say. Any one of the lower-tier rifles can be brought up to speed by following the excellent instructions here, and will make a perfectly suitable stand-in until such time as you can purchase a high-quality product from any of the aforentioned companies.
Dessert Fox
12-31-12, 13:39
Does "high speed tool"=Dremel?
Something to remember, just because something is made on the same machines as a known quality company, doesn't mean the parts are equal. It's well known that different companies have different requirements and tolerances and manufacturers offer different "grades" of parts, so for example you can have two receivers from different companies made on the same machine, but one "in spec" part from one company would have been rejected as out of spec by the other company.
facepalm.jpg
These days the only differences are Advertising, Assembly fit and finish, Accessories and Customer Service.
Not true. Let's say two companies such as Colt and DPMS get a particular part from the same vendor. What Colt's QC accepts and what DPMS's QC accept are two very different things. This leads to Tolerance Stacking and two very different products.
If you aren't Colt, Daniel Defense or Noveske you aren't shit here.
Bullshit.
clmarshall21
12-31-12, 15:49
BRG, I would be glad to come by and check out the rifle. But mostly, I am interested in your trigger and would like to see how it performs. We will get something set up in the near future.
If any of you have any points of interest that you would like me to take note of while I am there I would be glad to do it.
BTW, are there any other firearms company owners on this forum? just curious? Hmmm?
I'm surprised that someone hasn't addressed this for you yet...
One owner that is on here that I can be certain of is LeMonte LeClaire (I probably spelled that wrong) from Centurion Arms. Other companies on the forum that come to mind are:
Noveske
Battle Arms Development
Battlecomp
Rainier Arms
Palmetto State Armory
Magpul
Bravo Company Mfg.
Granted, not all of these companies are rifle manufacturers but they are all manufacturers and/or distributors that have a representative of some sort (perhaps even the owner) on this forum.
I am certain that my list can be added to... So please, those of you who care to help me out, please add to it.
Battle Rifle Guy, back out now. If you aren't Colt, Daniel Defense or Noveske you aren't shit here. These guys will pick apart anything you say. You seem pretty forthcoming with your info and if I was anywhere near you I would take you up on your offer to handle one of your products.
Good luck with your company. It is a tough market. Amen brother. This sounds like a stand up guy and company. Lets follow this thread and see how things shake out.
The Bulldawg
12-31-12, 16:50
Well I made a stop into his shop today and must say I like what they are doing. I shot his AR15 Br4 as well as their all new BR308 in 18 inch. I like their platforms and they both shot very smooth. I am not like most of you though and did not get detailed as to where they get their parts from or what they use. I do know they use yhm rails as well as troy and jp bcg's. They were building while I was there and encouraged me to try out any built rifle. The BR308 is awesome to say the least and reminds me of Larues. The 20 inch prototype was was awesome. Their flash suppressor showed 0 flash in a dark room and looks really good as well. I will be getting myself a BR4 as well as their BR308. If you have technical questions beyond this feel free to ask me as they told me but to me how a weapon shoots is what matters.
Amen brother. This sounds like a stand up guy and company. Lets follow this thread and see how things shake out.
I am all about the little guy starting up a company and trying to compete with the big boys. The firearms industry is so inbred, especially the AR side of it. It is pretty simple to manufacture a rifle to the same quality standards as Colt, DD and so forth and still be competitive using the same parts as they do.
I would love to give a new manufacturer a try. If I was in the market to buy a rifle and didn't have the ability and tools to assemble my own, I would be on the phone with him asking about making a purchase.
We need to support small business if the quality is there.
The Bulldawg
12-31-12, 16:51
BRG, I would be glad to come by and check out the rifle. But mostly, I am interested in your trigger and would like to see how it performs. We will get something set up in the near future.
If any of you have any points of interest that you would like me to take note of while I am there I would be glad to do it.
I'm surprised that someone hasn't addressed this for you yet...
One owner that is on here that I can be certain of is LeMonte LeClaire (I probably spelled that wrong) from Centurion Arms. Other companies on the forum that come to mind are:
Noveske
Battle Arms Development
Battlecomp
Rainier Arms
Palmetto State Armory
Magpul
Bravo Company Mfg.
Granted, not all of these companies are rifle manufacturers but they are all manufacturers and/or distributors that have a representative of some sort (perhaps even the owner) on this forum.
I am certain that my list can be added to... So please, those of you who care to help me out, please add to it.
I went by there and they are great guys with a great shop. They have quality gear.
The Bulldawg
12-31-12, 16:52
I am all about the little guy starting up a company and trying to compete with the big boys. The firearms industry is so inbred, especially the AR side of it. It is pretty simple to manufacture a rifle to the same quality standards as Colt, DD and so forth and still be competitive using the same parts as they do.
I would love to give a new manufacturer a try. If I was in the market to buy a rifle and didn't have the ability and tools to assemble my own, I would be on the phone with him asking about making a purchase.
We need to support small business if the quality is there.
The quality is there and I will be owning one.
I like that BR15 LIT. Pretty impressive standard setup. You would spend a lot more for a basic carbine and adding the options already on this rifle.
Very interesting.
Just a little visual critique. When you paint your roll marks it makes your rifle look gaudy and cheap.
clmarshall21
12-31-12, 17:39
I like that BR15 LIT. Pretty impressive standard setup. You would spend a lot more for a basic carbine and adding the options already on this rifle.
Very interesting.
Just as a point of reference, a 16" Mid-Length BCM with a ALG ACT trigger, 9" Noveske NSR handguard, and a Magpul CTR stock is about $50 cheaper than the LIT (as configured on gandrtactical.com).
I am not presenting this as an apples to apples comparison BTW... Actually IIRC, the Noveske handguard is more expensive than the MI tube on the LIT.
clmarshall21
12-31-12, 17:54
Just a little visual critique. When you paint your roll marks it makes your rifle look gaudy and cheap.
I'm glad we have you here to take on the important issues... Really?...
The Bulldawg
12-31-12, 18:05
Just a little visual critique. When you paint your roll marks it makes your rifle look gaudy and cheap.
Because that matters?
The Bulldawg
12-31-12, 19:30
http://www.gunsholstersandgear.com/2012/12/14/battle-rifle-company-br308/
Shot this today in the 18 inch. Not sure if I want to shoot my 5.56 anymore. I am an old school .308 bench rest guy and this thing rocks.
I've been following this thread with interest. I recall when we (Battle Arms Development) made our first foray into the AR market, m4carbine.net gave us the benefit of doubt, and every opportunity to prove our product and ourselves.
There were doubters, to be sure. For a company little known outside of the M14/M1A world, I was pleasantly surprised by the positive comments and support we received from early adopters. Our products are expensive, I had fully expected the "x brand cost less than half and works just as well", "gimmicky", "snake oil", etc. comments, we had very little of that.
M4carbine.net and its members are instrumental in our growth, we will always be grateful for the board and its members, many of them I consider friends.
I always answer board members' questions, not only truthfully, but also in greater detail than many, including my partner, deem necessary, for I believe we should share information that may benefit folks, whether they buy our products or not is immaterial, it's our duty as members of this forum.
M4carbine.net members can be a tough crowd, but especially because of that, if you can earn their trust in spite of it, you'll do very well here, for they are also fair. Welcome, I hope you'll stick around, we can always use more quality manufacturers :)
ScatmanCrothers
12-31-12, 23:50
http://www.gunsholstersandgear.com/2012/12/14/battle-rifle-company-br308/
Shot this today in the 18 inch. Not sure if I want to shoot my 5.56 anymore. I am an old school .308 bench rest guy and this thing rocks.
This .308 looks nice, very appealing imo. I guess the thing that keeps holding me back about getting into these rifles just yet are the suped-up names for basic parts on the gun that really don't tell me anything. From the link you provided:
Enhanced Combat Stock - Is that not a TI 7?
Custom rails from Troy - Do these have custom features that differ them from regular Troy forearms?
Custom buffer and custom matched spring - Are these made in house? what makes them custom?
Custom ambi pistol grip - Are these specially made? In house or by who?
Ambi Charging Handle - what brand?
Assault Bag - who makes it?
I'm not insinuating these parts are inferior in any way, I would just like to see who makes them like the Magpul, JP, and Troy parts already are if they are worth mentioning in the description. If posters showing pics of a new build on here were asked for specs and these kinds of descriptions were given it would get several wtf?'s. Seeing it from a company selling a product leaves much to be desired for me.
I just want to know when it will be "ok" for companies to start making guns that exceed the milspec and people not rabble at them. Dosent Noveske make some barrels out the m249 steel with matching chrome lining? It seems like innovation is welcome everywhere else on the gun as long as you slap some typeIII hard coat on it.
sent from mah gun,using my sights
It has always been OK. Knights Armament (KAC) is one of the most highly looked upon companies in the industry, and they do not use MPI/HPT to my knowledge. They have also have an intense R&D department and are vetted as a Mil supplier for decades now.
Trust is earned, not given.
I do like the answers that the owner of this company has given so far, and I hope that they make a great product and excel. We could use another quality, affordable .308 IMO.
I just want to know when it will be "ok" for companies to start making guns that exceed the milspec and people not rabble at them. Dosent Noveske make some barrels out the m249 steel with matching chrome lining? It seems like innovation is welcome everywhere else on the gun as long as you slap some typeIII hard coat on it.
sent from mah gun,using my sights
It has always been OK. Knights Armament (KAC) is one of the most highly looked upon companies in the industry, and they do not use MPI/HPT to my knowledge. They have also have an intense R&D department and are vetted as a Mil supplier for decades now.
Trust is earned, not given.
I do like the answers that the owner of this company has given so far, and I hope that they make a great product and excel. We could use another quality, affordable .308 IMO.
Battle Rifle Guy
01-01-13, 02:57
Duffy- thank you. if you get a chance, stop by and see us at booth 10873.
Gentlemen- thank you all for all of your comments. To touch on a few points-
our 308 is a rifle I wanted to build and bring to the public. It is a blend of what I, in my humble 30 year experience, believe to be the best blend of systems to create one excellent platform.
"Custom" is used to describe components that you would not find on a "Base", or "Basic" rifle. Custom is appropriate
The name for the Ti-7 is "Enhanced Combat Stock"- We have chosen the one in Black. we have "Battle Rifle" laser engraved on the opposite cheek rest, making it our own- got to DamageUSA.com and see the stock in all its colors- it's the Enhanced Combat Stock- ECS
Other "Custom" items have been measured, tested and balanced out for performance in the rifle- we have taken the time to test various different combinations of buffer weights, lengths, spring coil settings, lengths to come up with an optimum operating cycle. Do i have a magical machine that I make it with? No. All the parts are out there. You have to have a certain level of skill, training and understanding of Physics, Engineering, a practical real world experience to create a combination that is like no other. With respect to this, "Custom" is an appropriate word to use.
the Ambi Charging handle is by MechArmor- very nice, accepted Army Wide as the new standard.- works especially well in the prone position.
I made it a point to openly invite any of you to come and see me- I don't think anyone else has done that to my knowledge, however- i could be wrong- in any event, one of you was brave enough to take the challenge- Thank you Bulldawg for coming over. he picked a BR4rifle at random off the rack, entered the test booth and pulled a double tap- then he could not stop smiling. I so enjoy it when I can make someone happy like that.
Our BR308 is our entry into that larger caliber market. I have always enjoyed that round, and i wanted to put together something special. As a member of the 9th Inf Div rifle team, half the year I shot 7.62 mm for competition, and the other half of the year i was a Divisional Sniper, attached to the 2/75th Ranger Bn. at that time I used a M14 configured with a Leupold 3x9 vari/Mildot. it was a beautiful rifle, but I had often thought how perfect it would be to have an AR Style 7.62- but it was 1975, and there wasn't that type of availability of parts, equipment and skill level to come up with that.
It was not until I got a chance to work at Combat Experimental Development Command in Ft Hunter Legget where I saw my first AR10- Portuguese Army rifle on loan for test and evaluation. it was a bit clunky but a cool idea. Unfortunately like many new innovations that are not understood, it was ahead of its time in many respects.
Our brand is new, only been building like this for the last year- but I have been building, testing, firing, evaluating for my Uncle and your Uncle Sam for most of my adult life.
This discussion started because someone had a question about the BR177 - and I thought that I had answered it, then we got a bit side tracked.
Like with a fine wine, it is over time that you will discover the flavor that a Battle Rifle Company rifle has, that may suit your palate. You will walk into a shop one day, see it on the shelf and recognize it- you will ask to hold it, to get a feel. Please make sure you pull the trigger, but the best way will be to close your eyes, and slowly squeeze until you feel the smack- then you'll think, "Hmmm, that was crisp and light" you'll open it up, thinking there is some kind of fancy trigger set- then realize it looks like any other trigger- what did they do?
You become more curious. Hopefully you are at a shop that has a range. You ask if you can fire it- and it just so happens that they have one for you to fire. you load 30 rds in the magazine and let loose. Then it suddenly dawns on you- this is what that guy was talking about. Then you'll realize where we get our company slogan- "Choose Battle Rifle- Everything Else Is Just A Gun"
Gentlemen, and the few Ladies who are out there, thank you- it has been a pleasure. I will be starting a new thread for my customers here, where they can ask questions about the rifles we offer, and be able to provide support and feedback on technical questions. Please feel free to join that thread if you are an owner.
Please know that I personally will make every effort to answer every question I can. Know that I am using every bit of my training, skill and expertise to create the absolute best product, and I am passionate about making this the best quality rifle made. One of my sons is a full time SWAT officer and he carries a rifle I built for him- so my family and my reputation is on the line. I take my job seriously, because we make rifles for the good guys- and the good guys have to win.
if there is anything you need, you can reach me at chris@battleriflecompany.com
we also have our facebook page at facebook/battle rifle company
I wish you all peace and joy, and a great 2013. To those who said kind words, thank you.
To others here, I am sorry I could not help you. Perhaps our rifle is not for you. I wish you all the best.
Happy New Year!
Battle Rifle Guy - Congradulations on your company and welcome to M4C.
It is good to see another American company contributing to our economy.
Wish you the best in 2013 and beyond.
NavyDavy55
01-01-13, 06:38
"Battle Rifle Guy" Chris Kurzadkowski thanks for your time to post here. Good luck with your company.
clmarshall21
01-01-13, 09:14
I appreciate you coming here and taking the time to talk about your product. Also, thank you for your military service, Chris.
ScatmanCrothers
01-01-13, 11:39
Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. It sounds like you are using reputable parts; I prefer to see those basic brand name descriptions than tacticalized ones if they are deserving of a bullet point in the description.
As a GA resident its clear that my chances of making it by your shop anytime soon to put my hands on your rifle are small. Same goes for Shot. That's the beauty of boards like this. Gives people the opportunity to be introduced to smaller brands in other parts of the country that aren't readily available at the LGS.
As a small business owner myself I want nothing more than to see US based companies thrive. The questions itt are just an attempt to get a dumbed down version of what's being offered, not an attack or wanting your company to fail. Customer thoughts and opinions are the only ones that matter after all.
txf15crewchief
01-02-13, 23:07
Visited BRC... yeah.
I actually am curious as to the product these guys are presenting. I think the website could be a little more detailed into specifications, but so far everything looks good. I am glad to see a mfg trying to make a QUALITY rifle. The market is littered with crappy rifles, we do need more quality out there.
Battle Rifle Guy
01-24-13, 20:45
Hello all- I wanted to share this video that the Firearms Channel did on us at the Shotshow in Las Vegas. The show was a big success, alot of folks came by to see the rifle, try the triggers we did and see the quality of what we were offering.
This was totally unsolicited- we did not even know they were coming- but the announcer told me he had heard a group of dealers talking about our rifles and had to come over to see for himself. It was great to have Daryl Parker join us too- check out the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4y9ZsmkMu8
Very nice video, thanks. These folks look like the real deal to me & I'm going to keep them in mind. Quality is good - quality @ a fair price is really good.
Sent from my Droid RAZR MAXX using Tapatalk2
I apologize for bringing up such an old thread but I felt this might be worth a look for people considering this companies products.
http://vuurwapenblog.com/2013/05/04/pretty-much-the-worst-ar-15s-ive-ever-seen/
http://fellowshipofminds.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/dianne_feinstein.jpg
looks like an ad for "evil dead"
Wormydog1724
05-05-13, 09:56
I apologize for bringing up such an old thread but I felt this might be worth a look for people considering this companies products.
http://vuurwapenblog.com/2013/05/04/pretty-much-the-worst-ar-15s-ive-ever-seen/
I saw that today too. They need some help if that's the way they want to run their business. Run it into the ground more like it.
Damn. I was just at the NRA Convention yesterday, and had I known about this thread, I would have stopped by BRC's booth. I did see VuurwapenBlog there, and it would have been difficult to take him seriously, if you did not know him, as he was wearing a hilarious Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles shirt.
I apologize for bringing up such an old thread but I felt this might be worth a look for people considering this companies products.
http://vuurwapenblog.com/2013/05/04/pretty-much-the-worst-ar-15s-ive-ever-seen/
Just read that blog. Seems like the BRC folks were making excuses for a sloppy trigger. And who in their right mind would put a carbine length rail on a mid length gas system because "it looks cool"? Then there's the crooked handguard. Heck if it had been dropped they should have fixed it, not kept it on display. They probably aren't "pretty much the worst Ar's" but I certainly wouldn't own one.
http://vuurwapenblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/exposedtube.jpg
Rumor has it the shooter was kicked off the line for making everyone hungry from the smell of something cooking......
In the words of IG that's " dicked up "
wetidlerjr
05-05-13, 11:40
As they say in the UK, "I'm gobsmacked!"
ScatmanCrothers
05-05-13, 11:54
Wow... So the parts descriptions were nothing more than nauseating hyperbole? Say it ain't so.
Looks like they decided to throw something together last second and the carbine length rail was all they had on hand. His expression in that picture says it all
Wormydog1724
05-05-13, 12:13
http://vuurwapenblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/exposedtube.jpg
Rumor has it the shooter was kicked off the line for making everyone hungry from the smell of something cooking......
In the words of IG that's " dicked up "
Just noticed they're using the old outdated Troy trx rail. Why not use the current alpha version? Something is awry.
They liked the look of the exposed gastube????? WTF. I feel pity for the uninformed suckers who will buy these rifles.
Like with a fine wine, it is over time that you will discover the flavor that a Battle Rifle Company rifle has, that may suit your palate. You will walk into a shop one day, see it on the shelf and recognize it- you will ask to hold it, to get a feel. Please make sure you pull the trigger, but the best way will be to close your eyes, and slowly squeeze until you feel the smack- then you'll think, "Hmmm, that was crisp and light" you'll open it up, thinking there is some kind of fancy trigger set- then realize it looks like any other trigger- what did they do?
You become more curious. Hopefully you are at a shop that has a range. You ask if you can fire it- and it just so happens that they have one for you to fire. you load 30 rds in the magazine and let loose. Then it suddenly dawns on you- this is what that guy was talking about. Then you'll realize where we get our company slogan- "Choose Battle Rifle- Everything Else Is Just A Gun"
This reminds me of something.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMTkedIUX8U
:)
PalmettoPrecision
05-05-13, 13:08
Waiting for "Battle Rifle Guy" chime back in after this experience... Not looking good for all the claims he has made.
The Ground Truth
05-05-13, 15:46
This thread seemed extremely promising up until the last couple of posts. It sounds like the slapped some things together to try and make the show and it didn't work out too well. Hopefully they can bounce back since all of their prior reviews have been positive (especially those coming from people with trigger time.) live and learn but I wouldn't dismiss so fast, if we were all shot for mess ups then there wouldn't be anyone left in the world.
Complimentary typos courtesy of Tapatalk
in this business, I can tell you- you really do get what you pay for- except for Colt:eek:
Well I expected to see more from a company that came out of the gate knocking Colt's guns. This travesty of a firearm above looks more like talking the talk than walking the walk. Or walking into a pile of shit....but I wont dismiss their company yet. At least until I see what kind response/excuses take place....
:rolleyes: Shenanigans!
Well, I don't know about y'all, but I was entertained.
rubber ducky
05-05-13, 18:34
Not for nothing, but that exposed gas tube was shown on the youtube video that was referenced, taken at SHOT.
Not exactly news at this point.
Sorry but I am not surprised by this. Any and everyone thinks they can slap parts together and call it an AR. We have seen these failures time after time.
At the very least, they can start by hiring a proofreader. Yeesh.
Can't remember how many times companies like this have sprung up only to disappoint. My advice to anyone new to the AR world is to stick with the tried and true.
And besides what kind of company bashes a proven product (Colt) right out of the box?
Bobble Rifle Company, you just shot yourself in the foot as far as I am concerned.
When the company posted specs that said "4140/4150" you should expect problems with their products. The signs that things were this bad could be seen very easily if you weren't one of members arguing that everyone who was skeptical of the claims was a jerk, and a mindless parrot. I hope that people do not expect these rifles to meet the manufacturer's claims. It's just a matter of time before something like this
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=72733
happens to this company. I honestly would rather buy a rifle made by Century. :nono:
Unfortunately companies like this can find a niche. There are many uninformed folks out there who will take the bait. All you have to do is look at how many Bushmaster and Del-Ton owners there are out there.
brushy bill
05-05-13, 21:41
Many clues early on. No surprise.
Battle Rifle Guy
05-06-13, 00:03
Please find my response to the latest - no pulling of punches. There was one mistake made- and we understand that. Please see below-
(Response from the Blog post)
I must say, that was quite the bomb-basting you gave us- Yet, we have produced in a 2 year time over 800 rifles without any problems. We have been making rifles since 2010, and although we are relatively new, we are working at a level now to allow us to be able to expand out to the general market.
My rifles are used in the air by the contract holder for the State of Texas Hog Depravation Program- 200 rounds a day, every day for the last year and a half, without a problem. I have our rifles with several tactical training schools- without a problem. My rifles are on the street with several police departments- without a problem.
You made reference to a trigger at 6-7lbs- we have it rated at 4.5 to 5lbs. That is almost 1/2 less than the Mil-Standard, yet you said we were of lesser standard that an AR15 trigger- I find that a bit confusing.
If I recall, I offered to have you come out and test fire the rifles, to see how we build them – you declined. My offer stands to anyone who whats to come out- they are welcome to. you can call me direct- 281-777-0316 and I’ll be happy to make time to see you, let you pull a rifle off of our final shelf, and fire it-
NO MANUFACTURER WILL LET YOU DO THAT- BUT I WILL, BECAUSE I HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE.
I have learned over the years, that quality control is so important, and I work daily to make sure we move in that direction to insure that we are doing all that we can to take care of our customers.
I do appreciate you bringing to light the rail being off a bit on the one rifle you saw, and I did speak to the armorer that was responsible for putting that weapon together. After a long discussion about attention to detail, that will not be an issue moving forward. we always work to learn from mistakes- and not to repeat them. I must say though that one hick-up should not be a reason to diagnose a patient with a terminal disease.
We stand behind our product. We work hard everyday to make sure its right. If something isn’t- we take care of it, and we are always accessable to our customers to hear what they have to say, and respond to thier needs. We will bend over backwards to make sure our customers are taken care of- and work everyday to earn both thier trust and respect. The parts we use are all top rated components- with rated components like the bolt carriers, Barrels and Bolts meeting all the inspection criteria.
The end result is that I have hundreds of happy customers, from every aspect of this user segment- Law Enforcement, Lettered Agencies, Special Operations, Tactical Trainers, Professional Hunters and avid sport shooters.
I will say this again- you are more than welcome to come and test fire any rifle from the ready rack, at any time from our shop. you’ll find that, not only are they properly assembled, but they operate and perform to a high degree.
Please feel free to contact me at 281-777-0316 to answer any questions- or you can write me at chris@battleriflecompany.com
thank you
I want to say thank you to some of the folks here on M4Carbine.net to give me the heads up on this. It helps us to keep our product up to speed. This is a legacy that I want to build for the future for my children to take over- so all of this is part of the development. Again, thank you!
The standard range for GI triggers is not two times greater at the end points than your claims for your trigger. You've made numerous comments about parts that are not correct. You've made numerous posts lambasting Colt Manufacturing for no real reason. I have nothing against you on a personal level. I just don't think you know as much as you think you do about AR 15s.
uncle money bags
05-06-13, 00:26
BRC wrote,
" The parts we use are all top rated components- with rated components like the bolt carriers, Barrels and Bolts meeting all the inspection criteria."
Please explain what this sentence is saying.
Battle Rifle Guy
05-06-13, 00:50
I have not said anything bad about ANY Manufacturer on this forum.
the only reference I have made to Colt is that our recievers come off of the same machines that are operated by the OEM provider for Colt, and that our recievers are done off of the same blueprint set that are Colts.-
our fire control components are made by the EXACT SAME MANUFACTURERS that make them for the Military-
*TOOLCRAFT
*WMD
*Barnes Precision
*Green Mountain
*Black Whole Weaponry
*ER Shaw
*ESS
*Exos/MS
these are all military contractors, and maintain the highest standards
KingsideRook
05-06-13, 00:52
Please find my response to the latest - no pulling of punches. There was one mistake made- and we understand that.
Not to pile on - but this.
http://vuurwapenblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/exposedtube.jpg
This is also a mistake, as surely as if you put the hood for a Dodge Charger on a Challenger, and tried to pass off the gaps on the edges and the exposed parts as "cool."
DiabhailGadhar
05-06-13, 00:54
Look you can try and say your car is a Ferrari all you want..but until you win F1 a few times, the "mistake" at Shot Show pretty much tells us your rockin a Feiro with a body kit...;) Not trying to be a doucher, but if I was going to try and sell a product I'd make damn sure I didn't put my oops on the display rack..and I'd make doubly sure the morons promoting my gear had enough common since to either fix or remove anything that was wrong faster then a Ferrari would lap a Feiro.:suicide: I mean shit you're at Shot chances are there was a longer rail there SOMEWHERE... As we say in the Corps you're only a reflection of your leadership. I could go on...but I digress.
Care to comment about the mid length gun with the carbine rail? I took it that the gun with the rail "off a bit" was the one that was twisted.
Battle Rifle Guy
05-06-13, 01:02
This was an experiment- I've had a couple hundred folks said this was cool, I have one Federal Agency that wants to use this rifle just the way it was next week(even after I offered to change it) for training because they believe it looks intimidating, and I have a handful of people who dont like it- I would suppose at this point it is a matter of personal taste. If you like it fine- if you don't-fine. Either way- this rifle performs and does the job well.
P.S. I was considering a different rail on this, but after I was approached by this Federal Agency, I decided to work on a shroud on this which would add an extra layer of protection to the tube.
Rattlehead
05-06-13, 01:07
...I do appreciate you bringing to light the rail being off a bit on the one rifle you saw, and I did speak to the armorer that was responsible for putting that weapon together. After a long discussion about attention to detail, that will not be an issue moving forward..
This was an experiment- I've had a couple hundred folks said this was cool...
Sorry, but, what?
KingsideRook
05-06-13, 01:13
Sorry, but, what?
In the first of the quotes, he's responding to Vuurwapen's claim that a rail was misaligned. In the second, he's defending using the wrong length rail on a rifle, and exposing the fragile gas tube to damage, because correct construction of an AR15 rifle is a matter of personal preference now.
If a hundred Federal agents told me the rifle looked cool, it would still be assembled incorrectly, which is actually less a matter of opinion than if a hundred 11 year old girls told me Justin Beiber was as good as Elvis. At least the second position is a matter of opinion. How much of an AR15's gas tube a rail or handguard should cover is not a matter of opinion.
Battle Rifle Guy
05-06-13, 01:18
And that is why I am adding a shroud to this-
Rattlehead
05-06-13, 01:19
In the first of the quotes, he's responding to Vuurwapen's claim that a rail was misaligned. In the second, he's defending using the wrong length rail on a rifle, and exposing the fragile gas tube to damage, because correct construction of an AR15 rifle is a matter of personal preference now.
Thanks for clearing that up, was getting a bit confused.
Tzintzuntzan
05-06-13, 01:25
You'd be better off spending your money on those overpriced Colts :p
Grand58742
05-06-13, 02:04
This was an experiment- I've had a couple hundred folks said this was cool, I have one Federal Agency that wants to use this rifle just the way it was next week(even after I offered to change it) for training because they believe it looks intimidating, and I have a handful of people who dont like it- I would suppose at this point it is a matter of personal taste. If you like it fine- if you don't-fine. Either way- this rifle performs and does the job well.
P.S. I was considering a different rail on this, but after I was approached by this Federal Agency, I decided to work on a shroud on this which would add an extra layer of protection to the tube.
I'm one of the most guilty on here for giving upstart companies a fighting chance in the market (Adcor for example) but come on guy. There is a right way to put something together and a wrong way and slapping a carbine rail on a mid length carbine and even shrouding a gas tube isn't kosher. At least with Adcor they were doing something relatively outside the box and new. Troubles with the design, maybe, but let's face it some of their stuff was a little new and almost expected to have some problems. Those carbines you had at the convention are not new technology and should be easy as pie to assemble AND quality check before putting them out for Joe Q Public to see.
It'll take one person who buys that contraption that doesn't know better (as everything is still selling at a far greater pace than usual), gets burned on a hot gas tube or shroud and grabs first ambulance chasing lawyer they can find and files a lawsuit.
Even if it comes out in your favor, you still end up going through court for how many years?
It's one thing to say "we made a mistake and left the rookie in charge for a while" and another entirely to try to defend said rookie when those in the know call you out. those weapons displayed above could be described as inherently dangerous despite how many quality parts you have installed. And furthermore, attempts to defend same will only bring more discredit to an already sad situation.
Tzintzuntzan
05-06-13, 02:07
I'm one of the most guilty on here for giving upstart companies a fighting chance in the market (Adcor for example) but come on guy. There is a right way to put something together and a wrong way and slapping a carbine rail on a mid length carbine and even shrouding a gas tube isn't kosher. At least with Adcor they were doing something relatively outside the box and new. Troubles with the design, maybe, but let's face it some of their stuff was a little new and almost expected to have some problems. Those carbines you had at the convention are not new technology and should be easy as pie to assemble AND quality check before putting them out for Joe Q Public to see.
It'll take one person who buys that contraption that doesn't know better (as everything is still selling at a far greater pace than usual), gets burned on a hot gas tube or shroud and grabs first ambulance chasing lawyer they can find and files a lawsuit.
Even if it comes out in your favor, you still end up going through court for how many years?
It's one thing to say "we made a mistake and left the rookie in charge for a while" and another entirely to try to defend said rookie when those in the know call you out. those weapons displayed above could be described as inherently dangerous despite how many quality parts you have installed. And furthermore, attempts to defend same will only bring more discredit to an already sad situation.
Aside from my general dislike for ADCOR, spot-****ing on.
Andrew Tuohy
05-06-13, 02:53
I have not said anything bad about ANY Manufacturer on this forum.
the only reference I have made to Colt is that our recievers come off of the same machines that are operated by the OEM provider for Colt, and that our recievers are done off of the same blueprint set that are Colts.-
our fire control components are made by the EXACT SAME MANUFACTURERS that make them for the Military-
*TOOLCRAFT
*WMD
*Barnes Precision
*Green Mountain
*Black Whole Weaponry
*ER Shaw
*ESS
*Exos/MS
these are all military contractors, and maintain the highest standards
Your rep at the show told me that you use whatever parts Brownells sends you. Your carrier keys were a mixture of staked and unstaked as a result of this. Not only was the rail misaligned, the gas block was off, too. Proper installation/torque values for clamp gas block and rail screws were not visually evident. Your gas block setscrews were unstaked. Your triggers were objectively inferior to any other AR trigger I have used. I don't need to shoot your rifles to know that making a trip to see them used in their current state would be a waste of time.
Really? I would love to know what federal agency said that. That is one of the stupidest things I have read in a while. There is a reason why that gas tube is protected. So that it isn't damaged and so that the operator doesn't burn himself or gear when the gas tube gets hot.
According to your analogy because they say it is "cool" or intimidating you would knowingly build something incorrectly. Additionally a clamped on gas block is the last thing that anyone with any amount of experience would recommend on a hard use weapon.
Adding another part (like a shroud) is just plain stupid.
This was an experiment- I've had a couple hundred folks said this was cool, I have one Federal Agency that wants to use this rifle just the way it was next week(even after I offered to change it) for training because they believe it looks intimidating, and I have a handful of people who dont like it- I would suppose at this point it is a matter of personal taste. If you like it fine- if you don't-fine. Either way- this rifle performs and does the job well.
P.S. I was considering a different rail on this, but after I was approached by this Federal Agency, I decided to work on a shroud on this which would add an extra layer of protection to the tube.
Tzintzuntzan
05-06-13, 03:12
Maybe the guys in the science wing? :no:
Once again M4C does some quick evaluation on a new to the market product and exposes it true colors...
Battle Rifle Guy
05-06-13, 05:35
I can see that this is one of those crowds that, no matter how I answer, the answer is wrong. There are many that started out of thier shop in the back- I am no exception. We do buy some items from Brownells- because they have items that others don't- that certainly is not a crime, and the parts are American made. We did have some of our carriers come from Young Manufacturing, who does not stake thier carriers- they have thier own process which we honoring and it does not violate thier warranty.
the gas blocks are torked to the correct pounds and and have Loctite on them. the other parts requiring torking are also done appropriately.
We stand behind our product, and I'll be sending our rifles out to have video testing done to prove our performance and reliability for you. We'll make those available too. I am sorry that you had such a bad experience with our product- There are happy customers that use our product, daily.
As for the short rail- I'll change that. If you have other constructive ideas, I'll listen to that. I did not bash anyone here- I did not use profanity- and I expect others not to.
wetidlerjr
05-06-13, 06:52
I can see that this is one of those crowds that, no matter how I answer, the answer is wrong...
Nice ploy but a failed one. And this isn't a "crowd". This is a forum where many experts and other knowledgeable people pass on their knowledge by helping others build their expertise with the AR/M16 platform. Most here "don't suffer fools gladly".
True ... and could we get one that has safe/semi/burst engravings, even if the parts wouldn't allow it? That would be an interesting twist on the usual offerings. (is that even legal?)
Is this a serious question? Go buy a Spikes lower...
Mr. Battle Rifle Guy:
As you continue to post in this thread I will give you credit for hanging in.
If you go back and re-read this thread you will note someone explained if you used proper grammar, pronunciation, and editing, it would allow us to perceive you as a professional. You have failed to do this even after you acknowledged such.
You sign your post as a master armorer? But you spell torque as torked. Come on, torked, torking? Really? Are you trying to make us laugh?:no:
Kevin C
NeoNeanderthal
05-06-13, 07:34
After asking a hundred questions people started backing off for half a page and doing the whole "give the new guy a chance" routine.
Then that picture was posted and you said some new guy ****ed up. People then were saying "Ok well now i definitely dont trust this. You should be able to get shit right for shot show atleast."
THEN you came on and said "it's cool, intimidating, and thats how your going to sell them."
THEN you came on and edited your post and said "Im going to retard-rig up a shroud to cover the exposed gas tube"
You cant just add a midwest industries rail, a slightly different flash hider, a buttstock pad, receiver end plate and say your gun is an improvement over mil-spec. You also used words like reliable and smooth-shooting which to me is a red flag. The only way a person like me could test reliability is to run it through a high round count class and see if anything goes wrong, my bcm has nothing go wrong. How can you state it is more reliable than that?
I highly doubt your .25 cent trigger job on a carbine legnth gas system is a smoother shooting gun than a 16" middy, with a SSA trigger installed.
sinlessorrow
05-06-13, 07:47
I appreciate your trying to defend your product, but sometimes its best just to say "hey I ****ed up and I'll make sure to fix that". Everyone here....no matter how harsh is giving their opinion and you can use those opinions to refine your product.
Likewise Andrew(vuurwapenblog) is def someone I would listen to when he calls you on something, and I understand how you would take offense as your products are your lifes work, but harsh criticism is what should make you strive to do better, strive to make a product so good people have to find trivial things to call you on, instead of getting offended take these criticisms and use them to make even better product.
We have one of the best user bases on the web and one that you can really make positive changes in your product just by listening to the voices here.
Your biggest mistake is pulling the old Vulcan/blackthorne/hesse card of "well a federal agency liked it, or this elite Tier1 group uses our gear".
Wormydog1724
05-06-13, 07:49
This was an experiment- I've had a couple hundred folks said this was cool, I have one Federal Agency that wants to use this rifle just the way it was next week(even after I offered to change it) for training because they believe it looks intimidating, and I have a handful of people who dont like it- I would suppose at this point it is a matter of personal taste. [\quote]
When you say experiment, don't you mean accident? Or are you now saying it was done intentionally?
Looking "cool" or "intimidating" isn't high on people's priority list if are serious about their weapons. Producing a weapon with a major flaw and still trying to validate it isn't doing you any favors. A correctly built weapon isn't a matter of personal taste.
[quote]
P.S. I was considering a different rail on this, but after I was approached by this Federal Agency, I decided to work on a shroud on this which would add an extra layer of protection to the tube.
A shroud? Dahfuk? Why not just put the correct lenfth rail on there? And while you're at it, upgrade to the new style Alpha rail. A more solid lock up and no chance of stripping the threads out of the clamp like the old style. I don't even think Troy sells the old rails anymore. Must have dug deep in the parts bin for that.
I don't post a lot on this forum but I decided to follow this thread. There were things early on that I thought were 'suspect' but said nothing for fear of being railed on (pun intended?). But after this last post I quoted, I see all my suspicions were correct.
Good luck with all your future endeavors.
This was an experiment- I've had a couple hundred folks said this was cool, I have one Federal Agency that wants to use this rifle just the way it was next week(even after I offered to change it) for training because they believe it looks intimidating, and I have a handful of people who dont like it- I would suppose at this point it is a matter of personal taste. If you like it fine- if you don't-fine. Either way- this rifle performs and does the job well.
P.S. I was considering a different rail on this, but after I was approached by this Federal Agency, I decided to work on a shroud on this which would add an extra layer of protection to the tube.
Why waste time building a shroud when you can just use the proper length handguard /rail system? Get it right the first time. You guys have a lot of work, and the same amount of testing to do to get the attention of the knowledgeable user. The only federal agency I can think of that would actually consider your rifles would be DHS. If that's the case, then it makes all the sense in the world.
skijunkie55
05-06-13, 08:46
Why waste time building a shroud when you can just use the proper length handguard /rail system? Get it right the first time. You guys have a lot of work, and the same amount of testing to do to get the attention of the knowledgeable user. The only federal agency I can think of that would actually consider your rifles would be DHS. If that's the case, then it makes all the sense in the world.
:haha:
This has turned out to be quite an entertaining thread...
These are mistakes I would expect to see from a novice builder not a "manufacturer". As other posters have said its jacked up, ok. Own it. Yes it's jacked up, sorry our bad. Not, everyone likes it but you guys and I see we can't do anything right on here. I would expect more from someone with supposed "special operations" experience then to make excuses.
skullworks
05-06-13, 11:11
..this.
http://vuurwapenblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/exposedtube.jpg
Is this without the commitment:
http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt84/bluetick357/tumblr_lrw34nATI81qfcpsho1_500_zpsc54ddbb0.png
Tiny Killer Robot
05-06-13, 11:43
I have not said anything bad about ANY Manufacturer on this forum.
cost of the rifle- no doubt this will be of great concern to all, especially to some of you younger troopers- in this business, I can tell you- you really do get what you pay for- except for Colt:eek:
Being a native Texan, I really hoped that you had your crap together. However, you keep spouting fluff about "we have over 25 different features added to our rifles that make them "Milspec-Plus"
Looking over the reference you point us to, I see:
Milspec buffer tube
Coated buffer spring and mil-spec buffer
Six position telescoping stock
Rail covers
Detachable carry handle
Buttstock pad
"Each rifle has a guarantee from factory defects and workmanship "
"Each rifle comes with a Battle Rifle Tactical Carry Bag"
I'll stop there, but you get the gist. You list the 25 features (even though there are only 24 on your page) and 90% of them are dubious 'improvements' at best.
Then you brag about the quality and show up for a show with a rifle incorrectly assembled and try to play it off as "cool." Sure, if cool means retarded.
I looked over your website, and since no one else has called you on it, you have a rifle with a set screw gas block, yet you call your rifles "professional quality"? Really, you couldn't even pin a low-pro block on?
Here's my constructive criticism: First, get your shit together with your rifles. If you want to be the best, build the best rifle out of the best parts.
Next, get a PR guy. Your spokesman is the face of your company and your spelling and grammar are beyond horrible ("maliable", is that like malleable but better?)
Third, drop all the flashy marketing BS, unless you have concrete, aticulated improvements that you can show. A warranty and a carry bag are not bullet points for "Milspec+" to anyone who doesn't lick windows. If you are solely concerned with churning out POS rifles, then by all means, keep your ad copy exactly as is.
I really was hoping that you had your crap together. But, you are on the wrong forum if you think that you can make some sales with smoke and mirrors and 21 points of light bullshit about how your rifle as good as/superior to the industry leaders with what you have shown so far.
Battle Rifle Guy
05-06-13, 11:51
I have owned this- and we use your input for the future. This is a small, family run business- we can adjust, and we can do things that need to be done. I tried something different- it was received poorly- we will adjust. Thank you all
One thing that bugs me about these "mom and pop" AR manufacturers is their insistence on using marketing phrases like "custom" or "milspec-plus."
If your specs are good (raw technical data) then you don't have to use creative language.
How can you claim your stuff is "milspec-plus" if you haven't even assembled the rifles properly? Do you stake your castle nuts? Gas port sizes?
I recommend you guys look at KAC, DD, and BCMs websites.
Also, why the hell do you test your rifles for "flash." what does that even mean? do you magically expect one rifle to make more flash than the others?
Quiet-Matt
05-06-13, 12:31
My son and I were on the road visiting an old friend and we decided to stop in a gun store that is apparently a dealer of "battle rifles". We looked around and eventuall made our way to the guns. I jokingly told my son loud enough for everyone to hear "go ahead and pick out whatever you want". The guy behind the counter said "you should check out the battle rifles". He paused and said "oh, I didn't see your Daniel Defense hat. Nevermind".
What does that tell you?! :big_boss:
My son and I were on the road visiting an old friend and we decided to stop in a gun store that is apparently a dealer of "battle rifles". We looked around and eventuall made our way to the guns. I jokingly told my son loud enough for everyone to hear "go ahead and pick out whatever you want". The guy behind the counter said "you should check out the battle rifles". He paused and said "oh, I didn't see your Daniel Defense hat. Nevermind".
What does that tell you?! :big_boss:
Everything.
Tzintzuntzan
05-06-13, 13:46
Locktite on a gas block :confused:
Yeah, so...the problem here is you have a dingdong churning out LEGO rifles and another dingdong that owns a range pushing said LEGO rifles to even more dingdongs who think that exposed gas tubes are cool.
It's a vicious cycle.
Source: I live within a couple of miles of all the aforementioned dingdongs.
Yeah, so...the problem here is you have a dingdong churning out LEGO rifles and another dingdong that owns a range pushing said LEGO rifles to even more dingdongs who think that exposed gas tubes are cool.
It's a vicious cycle.
Source: I live within a couple of miles of all the aforementioned dingdongs.
Have you paid them a visit?
Locktite on a gas block :confused:
Some loctites will hold up to 500 degrees. You won't get enough rounds through the BR gun before the 3rd degree burns from the exposed gas tube stops your shooting and no longer puts the gas block screws in peril.
To my fellow m4carbiners-
Here, we live in a small, unique realm even within the world of ARs. Few folks out there understand port sizes, what it means to have an A2 or Vortex flash suppressor or what it means when a rifle actually meets milspec. The "milspec" claim is particularly confusing to people. As soon as a new manufacturer comes on board to sell their carbine, first thing someone asks is "is it milspec?" then tear them apart when something deviates from that. Then, there are folks that will point out a civilian rifle cannot be milspec because it doesn't have the burst or full auto feature and "who wants an M4 profile barrel anyway? *Snicker* Mounting a grenade launcher?"
It's easy to see how someone from outside this board would use catch phrases like "milspec plus" or explain that the rifles have been tested for flash or any number of phrases to reassure the non-technical folks looking for an AR. Many well respected trigger pullers lack the technical acumen to accurately describe the features of their weapon. There are still those who think the carrier is moving while the bullet is in the barrel, or that the gas in the carrier pushed the bolt forward.
BRC is trying to fit in here. Only time will tell if the rifles he's building is worth our time & attention. If we want to be an influence on another builder, we need to stop attacking every little thing and start teaching with more patience
To my fellow m4carbiners-
Here, we live in a small, unique realm even within the world of ARs. Few folks out there understand port sizes, what it means to have an A2 or Vortex flash suppressor or what it means when a rifle actually meets milspec. The "milspec" claim is particularly confusing. As soon as a new manufacturer comes on board to sell their carbine, first thing someone asks is "is it milspec?" then tear them apart when something deviatesd from that. Then, there are folks that will point out a civilian rifle cannot be milspec because it doesn't have the burst or full auto feature and "who wants an M4 profile barrel anyway? *Snicker* Mounting a grenade launcher?"
It's easy to see how someone from outside this board would use catch phrases like "milspec plus" or explain that the rifles have been tested for flash or any number of phrases to reassure the non-technical folks looking for an AR. Many well respected trigger pullers lack the technical acumen to accurately describe the features of their weapon. There are still those who think the carrier is moving while the bullet is in the barrel, or that the gas in the carrier pushed the bolt forward.
BRC is trying to fit in here. Only time will tell if the rifles he's building is worth our time & attention. If we want to be an influence on another builder, we need to stop attacking every little thing and start teaching with more patience
Yup. Most consumers are ill-informed and very easily fooled.
I can't tell you how many people I've had the "mil spec" conversation with because of something as simple as: Why would you spend so much for a receiver extension from BCM when you can get an entire mil spec buffer assembly for $x less from fill-in-the-blank? When they are looking at the "mil spec diameter" extension/tube + carbine buffer from the 'other guy'.
*sigh*
Have you paid them a visit?
They took a rifle...
...to SHOT Show...
...with an exposed gas tube.
They ain't the kind of guys I want to hang out with.
This thread features most of what's wrong with society today. Acceptance of lower standards and apathy will be the end of you all. Tighten up and demand excellence. Stop giving away your money and respect because somebody tried. Stop cultivating a failure-friendly environment.
These guys are a bunch of hacks. When they cease to be hacks, call me.
Or don't. Yeah, don't.
Also, he didn't come here asking how to build the greatest rifle ever. He came telling everyone how awesome his rifle is. Irresponsible.
DiabhailGadhar
05-06-13, 18:47
I agree with mist wolf here to a degree...but here is a prime example of what kind of products a company is willing to turn out just to turn a profit. I mean there were tons of mis-steps here that even the simplest of oversight could have prevented..the owner himself stated that he has more then a few "master armorers" on staff and not one caught the uncovering of an essential as well as potentially hazardous component of the system, as IG put is just stupid at best. If he, as the owner, isn't capable of catching that IDK WTF is going on there.
Doubly so a company that calls themselves "BATTLE" rifle. I mean if they were called Clown Guns R Us no big deal. But they're not.
Furthermore if he would have just come on and said "In hind-sight that was my bad, I should have cought it, I punched myself in the sack, the guy that did it was kicked in the sack, and the guy who was douche at shot show was kicked then sacked."
Like I said plenty of mis-steps easily avoided. But don't get me wrong I'm hugely a fan of small business owners, my dad was one my entire life and I wish the best for him. However if I were a weapons business owner I would HUNT people like IG or any of our other SME's out get there wisdom/hire them were possible and pay them accordingly to kick me in my teeth any time I had look on my face that could be remotely misinterpreted as a dumb idea...;)
Tzintzuntzan
05-06-13, 18:54
I was not trying to draw attention to locktite, I was trying to point out that you should never use screws on a damn gas block :nono:
ScatmanCrothers
05-06-13, 19:00
I was not trying to draw attention to locktite, I was trying to point out that you should never use screws on a damn gas block :nono:
Please, expound.
Tzintzuntzan
05-06-13, 19:02
Please, expound.
The search button reveals all. I know how stupid that sounds but trust me.
ScatmanCrothers
05-06-13, 19:10
The search button reveals all. I know how stupid that sounds but trust me.
I would have opted out of explaining that one too. Good call.
http://vuurwapenblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/exposedtube.jpg
-Assembled from whatever Brownell's has in stock
-YHM flip up gas block custom fitted with loctite
-Exposed gas tube painted with Krylon (custom shroud under development, patent-pending)
-Super duper, pooper scooper, venturi tornado muzzle velocity enhancement device (flash tested)
-One Federal Agency who wants to use thsi rifle just the way it was next week (even after I offered to change it) for training because they believe it looks intimidating
So, Gecko45 finally got his Type 07 FFL.
Tzintzuntzan
05-06-13, 19:19
I would have opted out of explaining that one too. Good call.
Wait, how did I opt out? By deferring to looking for explanations from more knowledgeable individuals that have already hashed this out :confused:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=20152
Here's a thread that does go over the issue.
Wait, how did I opt out?
By saying "search" instead of just explaining your position, even if only briefly.
I don't have a dog in this fight, but yeah, that's kinda what happened.
To my fellow m4carbiners-
Here, we live in a small, unique realm even within the world of ARs. Few folks out there understand port sizes, what it means to have an A2 or Vortex flash suppressor or what it means when a rifle actually meets milspec. The "milspec" claim is particularly confusing to people. As soon as a new manufacturer comes on board to sell their carbine, first thing someone asks is "is it milspec?" then tear them apart when something deviates from that. Then, there are folks that will point out a civilian rifle cannot be milspec because it doesn't have the burst or full auto feature and "who wants an M4 profile barrel anyway? *Snicker* Mounting a grenade launcher?"
It's easy to see how someone from outside this board would use catch phrases like "milspec plus" or explain that the rifles have been tested for flash or any number of phrases to reassure the non-technical folks looking for an AR. Many well respected trigger pullers lack the technical acumen to accurately describe the features of their weapon. There are still those who think the carrier is moving while the bullet is in the barrel, or that the gas in the carrier pushed the bolt forward.
BRC is trying to fit in here. Only time will tell if the rifles he's building is worth our time & attention. If we want to be an influence on another builder, we need to stop attacking every little thing and start teaching with more patience
I'm going to have to agree with Mist Wolf on this. It is looking like BR is listening to the criticism and hopefully incorporates it into his building process. Lets hope future builds take everything into account and he corrects his mistakes. We all have to start somewhere. Granted what he presented was completely mucked up , especially bringing something like that abomination of an AR to SHOT. We'll see what the future brings
brushy bill
05-06-13, 19:34
Also, he didn't come here asking how to build the greatest rifle ever. He came telling everyone how awesome his rifle is. Irresponsible.
You nailed it. The clues were early and often, but still he claimed to offer the best product, not as good on the website, but the best. "Everything else is just a gun" or similar dribble. Now he caims to have intentionally made a 'cool looking' rifle when it was an abortion at best, and is still on same glide slope as when we started. Nothing to see here when you can get a Colt, BCM, et al for the same price...seriously??? But folks who know more than me are still arguing give them a chance...we have, no?
My argument is to educate and give Battle Rifles a chance to correct their course and not just bust their balls and dog-pile them for their mistake. Give them the benefit of the knowledge and experience of this site. If Battle Rifles still does not make the course corrections, then that's on them. It's only fair. The rule is contact the manufacture and give them a chance to correct the problem. This is the same thing- we see a problem, point it out and give them a chance to fix it. If we're just a bunch of jerks all the time, people like Battle Rifles will go someplace else and we will have lost another opportunity to make a difference and help them understand when they do not know what they do not know
Wormydog1724
05-06-13, 20:09
Because I'm such a nice and fair guy, I tell you what BRGuy. Walk into your shop and pick out the first rifle you see and send it to me. I've got a 1,000 rounds of Tula I'll run through it right off the bat, then ill take it to my local 3 gun matches and not only will I run it, but I'll let anyone that wants to run it also, provide they use they're own factory ammo. I'll keep it on the same maintenance schedule as my other 3 gun rifle, I'll put a Trijicon TR24G on it for the matches, and a TR20 for accuracy testing. I won't change a thing. I won't abuse it, but I'll use it. It won't be 200 rounds a day like your pig shooters, but it'll be honest use. No I'm not a high speed low drag door kicker, but I have been around plenty of AR's to know quality when I feel/see it. I'll do my damnedest to not be biased in any way and give you, your company, and your rifle a fair chance to prove they're on par with... Oh I dunno.. Lets say Colt. Pm me if this is agreeable. I'll send you a copy of my DL, CHL, marriage license or whatever else you want to know I'm a good guy.
Just please for the love of god don't send me that lady gaga of a rifle that has been the recent subject of this thread.
Just please for the love of god don't send me that lady gaga of a rifle that has been the recent subject of this thread.
Now that's funny, I don't care who you are.
This whole thread has been one big happy-epic journey of entertainment. I'll leave it at that. Good luck with your company.
Being a native Texan, I really hoped that you had your crap together. However, you keep spouting fluff about "we have over 25 different features added to our rifles that make them "Milspec-Plus"
Looking over the reference you point us to, I see:
Milspec buffer tube
Coated buffer spring and mil-spec buffer
Six position telescoping stock
Rail covers
Detachable carry handle
Buttstock pad
"Each rifle has a guarantee from factory defects and workmanship "
"Each rifle comes with a Battle Rifle Tactical Carry Bag"
I'll stop there, but you get the gist. You list the 25 features (even though there are only 24 on your page) and 90% of them are dubious 'improvements' at best.
Then you brag about the quality and show up for a show with a rifle incorrectly assembled and try to play it off as "cool." Sure, if cool means retarded.
I looked over your website, and since no one else has called you on it, you have a rifle with a set screw gas block, yet you call your rifles "professional quality"? Really, you couldn't even pin a low-pro block on?
Here's my constructive criticism: First, get your shit together with your rifles. If you want to be the best, build the best rifle out of the best parts.
Next, get a PR guy. Your spokesman is the face of your company and your spelling and grammar are beyond horrible ("maliable", is that like malleable but better?)
Third, drop all the flashy marketing BS, unless you have concrete, aticulated improvements that you can show. A warranty and a carry bag are not bullet points for "Milspec+" to anyone who doesn't lick windows. If you are solely concerned with churning out POS rifles, then by all means, keep your ad copy exactly as is.
I really was hoping that you had your crap together. But, you are on the wrong forum if you think that you can make some sales with smoke and mirrors and 21 points of light bullshit about how your rifle as good as/superior to the industry leaders with what you have shown so far.
Maybe we should cut this guy some slack...IF he admits that he is more a hobbyist builder than an innovating manufacturer & has a LOT to learn about the importance of doing things correctly, especially displaying it at a major show...and blowing smoke up our butt-stocks about the quality and mad love among "agencies" for the weapon.
And just how many more AR companies do we really need, free enterprise and all that aside, which is great, but how much reinventing of the wheel is needed?
We have LWRCI and the like for those fond of the piston...fine little tweaks and innovations there...
...and KAC, which I have learned has subtle but significant innovations & tweaks to the Stoner D.I. guns...and Colt & LMT, Noveske, D.D., BCM, LaRue...Top tier...then the others, how many more needed unless it is radically changed then maybe, no longer an AR/ M4?
Hopefully BR chimes back in so we can see if this becomes a "m4 carbine success story"; to quote someone here. :D
There'd be no value in it. He's established the demographic he's after, and it's probably not one that thinks function > form.
By itself, the exposed gas tube, and the subsequent attempt to spin it off as okay because a "federal agency" (the Surgeon General is a federal agency; so is the USDA) thinks it "looks intimidating...." (as opposed to a correctly-assembled gun put to duty use remaining intimidatingly undamaged).
"I can Name That Tune in two notes, Tom!"
http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Sons-Of-Guns-Meme.jpg
I can see that this is one of those crowds that...
...doesn't respond favorably to having somebody piss on their collective head and tell them it's raining.
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