SCAR Charging Handle - GG&G, TangoDown, OEM - review [Archive]

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Voodoo_Man

11-01-12, 21:33

http://vdmscar.blogspot.com/2012/11/scar-charging-handle-gg-tangodown-oem.html

1911-A1

11-01-12, 22:25

I have the GG&G handle on my 17s. It's stupid easy to grab in a hurry and without looking. I see no issue with getting hung up on gear. Hell, any carbine can do that.

Voodoo_Man

11-01-12, 22:43

I have the GG&G handle on my 17s. It's stupid easy to grab in a hurry and without looking. I see no issue with getting hung up on gear. Hell, any carbine can do that.

Guess I should have clarified. I was wearing a PC and a "front line belt." From the rifle being slung it seemed to grab gear more often than the other two.

I do not own a SCAR 17, so I cannot say how it would be beneficial, but seeing as how you probably won't be doing much CQB or anything of that nature with the 17, the GG&G may be a good option.

QuickStrike

11-02-12, 01:21

I dont have an optic on mine yet, but I was wondering if dehorning the mount and putting ladder rail covers on the unused rail portions will prevent most of the knuckle scraping?

Very interesting point that the TD handle not having a lip to snag on stuff. I will probably get that one eventually.

g3k

11-02-12, 03:32

putting ladder rail covers on the unused rail portions will prevent most of the knuckle scraping?

I haven't done this on my scar yet but I did on my AUG A3, which has a similar charging handle to rail interface. Took the possibility of scraping my knuckles from maybe to no chance at virtually zero weight penalty. Might want to try it.

halmbarte

11-02-12, 06:25

+1 on the rail cover. Keeps the sharp edges from getting dinged and eating flesh.

I've tried the TD lever and OEM so far. Personally, I'm liking the OEM over the TD unit. Optic is a M4s on a LaRue mount so it is almost flat on the left side of the rail.

H

Turnkey11

11-02-12, 07:04

I run a GG&G lever on my 16s to clear the Eotech. My 17s has rings mounted to it so I stuck with the stock charging handle, which I prefer over all.

Voodoo_Man

11-02-12, 12:12

Ill probably do a follow up post eventually to the blog. I run the tangodown for speed purposes. Its faster than the other two in my experience and less snag-prone while on the move.

FlyingHunter

11-03-12, 15:20

While I run the stock CH on the Right side without any issues...forget that...Voodoo Man does some of the best reviews I've seen. thoughtful and complete, considers pro/con and personal opinion/bias, competent literary flow, crisp pictures....your reviews ROCK!

Voodoo_Man

11-03-12, 15:54

Ferris2son

11-04-12, 21:44

Thanks :D

I'll be doing an supplement to the review since after reading it I figured I left some stuff out.

Don't forget the E.A.C.H.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AciJOgQl6W8&feature=plcp

Voodoo_Man

11-04-12, 21:51

Don't forget the E.A.C.H.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AciJOgQl6W8&feature=plcp

I did not mean I'll be doing more reviews of charging handles unless someone gifts me an one which I do not have or unless I can buy for extremely cheap as I do not need any more charging handles.

Ferris2son

11-04-12, 22:19

Thanks :D

I'll be doing an supplement to the review since after reading it I figured I left some stuff out.

I'm confussed. "you left some stuff out"?
You don't consider the feedback you got on FNF 'leaving something out'?

I have an EACH. I'll send it to you if you'd like. I don't have a Hi Desert Dog handle. http://hi-desertdog.com/scar-16/17-charging-handle-hdd-spec-ops.html

PM me if you'd like to try one. The EACH is manufactured by a friend of mine. You might like it.

Voodoo_Man

11-04-12, 22:46

I'm confussed. "you left some stuff out"?
You don't consider the feedback you got on FNF 'leaving something out'?

I have an EACH. I'll send it to you if you'd like. I don't have a Hi Desert Dog handle. http://hi-desertdog.com/scar-16/17-charging-handle-hdd-spec-ops.html

PM me if you'd like to try one. The EACH is manufactured by a friend of mine. You might like it.

Did I not make myself clear on the other forum?

Keep interforum political BS out of other forums PLEASE.

mstennes

11-04-12, 23:51

Don't forget the E.A.C.H.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AciJOgQl6W8&feature=plcp

I just ordered the E.A.C.H., I tried the TD, ran it once, and had I taken the stock one, I would have changed it sooner, IMO the TD is worse than the stocker by far.

Ferris2son

11-05-12, 21:54

Did I not make myself clear on the other forum?

Keep interforum political BS out of other forums PLEASE.

The only thing that is clear is that you are totally subjective and you couldn't care less about your review's completeness.

Political BS? What politics? I offered to send to a charging handle that you omitted from your review and it's "update".

Is sending you a $65 part for a free T&E, Bullshit in your world?

Wierd...

Voodoo_Man

11-05-12, 22:46

Larry Vickers

11-06-12, 10:01

I personally think everyone is missing the point on charging handles ( SCAR, AR, or otherwise ) - once again we see a trend in the industry of people thinking bigger is better; on a charging handle that is definately not the case

The only time you should be using a charging handle is loading and unloading and malfunction clearance - if the last one is happening a lot then you need to fix the gun, not get another accessory that makes it easier to clear the problem

Charging handles can cause a lot of problems is they are too big and/or used when They should not be- they can get caught on gear and partially pulled out of battery ( which often causes a click when you want a bang ) and if they are used improperly ( such as after a bolt open reload ) a shooter can inadvertently prevent proper chambering of a round by causing drag

For these reasons I like 'enhanced' charging handles like the BCMGunfighter Mod 5 and the Tangodown SCAR charging handle

Remember it is very easy to over accessorize these days in the carbine realm ( particularly on an M4) - think about what you are doing and only do it if it makes sense in the real world ; not in a class at the 7 yd line doing a mag dump

LAV

Voodoo_Man

11-06-12, 12:00

^Excellent points, Sir, thank you for posting.

Dave_M

11-06-12, 13:22

So far, I prefer the TD CH in the, 'down' position.

Ferris2son

11-08-12, 10:17

Thank you for derailing this thread. You are the only subjective person posting and completely bias. If you want to send me the EACH and 2k rounds for the gun I will gladly do a review to your standards, otherwise please keep your forum drama out of my threads as it has no place anywhere especially here. I did not do this review for your benefit or to boast about your obviously bias intentions on this subject, in fact I believe I do an awesome job not being bias.

I haven't derailed the thread. I'm on-topic. Your review of SCAR charging handles remains incomplete. I tried to help you by sending you one of mine and you act-up.

I am biased to the EACH, as disclosed above. It's made by a friend of mine. BUT I'm not posting reviews all over the internet about SCAR handles. You are. And your review remains incomplete for reasons you are not willing to disclose.

Voodoo_Man

11-08-12, 11:55

I haven't derailed the thread. I'm on-topic. Your review of SCAR charging handles remains incomplete. I tried to help you by sending you one of mine and you act-up.

I am biased to the EACH, as disclosed above. It's made by a friend of mine. BUT I'm not posting reviews all over the internet about SCAR handles. You are. And your review remains incomplete for reasons you are not willing to disclose.

If you want it reviewed so bad, you do it.

I have been soured with this and will not even consider touching it in the future.

Whatever advertising scheme you and your buddy have thought of in order to sell these things has definitely worked, in a sense that anyone who reads this thread will understand that all it will get is mention from someone who actually runs the gun and not just sits on the internet bitching about someone's opinion.

Please stop posting in this thread, your not helping your point and only adding the already negative opinions of your bias product.

Squid

11-09-12, 14:26

No one is complaining about the lack of inclusion of the Modern Arms or other unmentioned aftermarket charging handles in this review. Probably because it's entirely irrelevant.

Voodoo's work here stands on it's own, regardless of whatever additional products may come before or after it.

Simply take it for what it is, and if you find your own experiences or preferences differ; explain them without just expecting the reviewer to do that for you.

Anything more is just disrespectful and distracting to information it's obvious someone put a great deal of effort into providing.

Ferris2son

11-10-12, 11:10

Don't paint me as a bad guy.

Here is my original post in response to Voodoo saying he was going to update the review because "he left some things out".

Don't forget the E.A.C.H.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AciJOgQl6W8&feature=plcp

My next post offered to send him one. I was trying to help out. He got nasty.

Voodoo_Man

11-10-12, 12:05

You are a bad guy, with bias and motives not worth mentioning in polite company.

For those reading this thread and are as confused as I was with his posts, I'll spell it out.

I posted a link to my review on fnforum.com - being an FN gun I figured they would benefit from the review, as was my original intention, have everyone benefit from my leg work and time on the gun.

His first post is a youtube embed of the EACH. Okay, kind of weird to post something I did not review in a review thread specifically for the items I was talking about.

His next post:

Good point.
What is the name of this thread again? Oh yeah, SCAR Charging handle review.
And mentioning the EACH is hijacking because...
Horse hockey fd57. You're better than that.

Look at it this way:
Guy writes a review, "Hybrid cars from Japan". Doesn't mention the Prius. You think a few people might bring up the fact that the guy missed an obvious choice?

IF Voodoo really has 2000 rounds behind each handle (6000 rounds x $0.35/round= $2000) and he writes a review ommiting the EACH, his review is incomplete.

Referring to another post in the thread, basically downplaying my review because I did not include the EACH - obvious and overwhelming bias.

Then he posts this

I'm serious. There are 5 offerings. Your review covered 3 and is incomplete. Don't you get it? "EVERY single possible"? Like there's 52 possibles or something? There's 5.

I stand by my posting of MAC's review.

Responding to my post referring to my review.

I then post I will not be posting much more in that thread and stopped reading the comments - link to thread here - http://fnforum.net/forums/fn-scar-16s/33142-scar-charging-handle-gg-g-tangodown-oem-review-3.html

Then he decides to come here, ONLY after I stopped posting in that thread to continue to try to derail and spread his bias from a different forum on this specific topic.

I do believe the title TROLL is in order here.

Instead of being grateful for the work that has been done, instead of simply posting "thanks, great review!" or something along those lines, he comes into TWO different forums to derail, piss on and share his bias at every chance.

So yes Mr. Ferris2son, you are a "bad guy" the type of "bad guy" our community suffers from at all times. The type of person who sits behind a keyboard and bitches about everything instead of going out and trying it themselves.

I have received almost a dozen PM's on the two forums telling me this guy has a history of doing this exact act and it does not surprise me. Others have posted in this thread positively and I would hate for someone like this TROLL to taint the positive information provided.

Ferris2son

11-10-12, 14:41

You're acting kinda wierd Voodoo.

I stand by my last post. I entered this thread straight-up and tried to add to the content and help you.

You've been angry every since. Now YOU bring other Forum's "political bullshit" to M4. Something you falsly accused me of doing. Quoting from another forum, totally out of context. Now name calling...Good job.

I tried to contribute.
I offered to send you handle.
You piss on me.

I'm out...

Voodoo_Man

11-10-12, 14:44

Finally gets the point, please do not come back, TROLL, this is not an environment that will welcome your type of antics.

Ferris2son

11-10-12, 17:39

Finally gets the point, please do not come back, TROLL, this is not an environment that will welcome your type of antics.

Still name calling.
Now YOU define this environment?
I've been a member here twice as long as you, Voodoo.
I didn't just pop in here for you.
You ARE very arrogant aren't you?

Stop.

Squid

11-10-12, 19:31

Ignoring the childish bickering, let's just try to get this thread back on topic.

Voodoo, in your experience would you say the charging handle's propensity to snag on kit is more closely tied to size or shape?

I'm assuming both are a factor but perhaps you noticed one play a larger role than the other.

Voodoo_Man

11-10-12, 20:02

Now that ive ignored the troll in this thread.

Ignoring the childish bickering, let's just try to get this thread back on topic.

Voodoo, in your experience would you say the charging handle's propensity to snag on kit is more closely tied to size or shape?

I'm assuming both are a factor but perhaps you noticed one play a larger role than the other.

I would say the larger the CH the greater to snag it will be. The ggg snagged on a few things, including my arm when I shot in different positions, shooting sbu prone was nearly impossible I had to go offhand to do it without issue. The tangodown worked the best as its rounded. I have not ran other handles, like the each, but just looking at its size its probably going to snag on kit easy and not allow you to shoot dynamically just like the ggg.

For me speed of reload and ease of use is most important, if it snags once I shitcan it, like the ggg and oem. Anything with a lip and non rounded edge will snag easy in any sort of dynamic shooting.

Squid

11-10-12, 20:13

It could be argued that while the shape of the OEM/EACH/etc increase the likelihood of catching gear, the same design also prevents your fingers from slipping in adverse conditions.

Ideally the design with the least potential to grab on to kit is a round hemisphere shape - but there's no way to hold on to something like that.

Personally I think the Tango Down handle fits the mold of happy medium between these two extremes. At least that's the handle I would chose if I felt the need for an aftermarket charging handle, which I don't.

Voodoo_Man

11-10-12, 22:11

Dave_M

11-11-12, 01:19

Now that ive ignored the troll in this thread.

I would say the larger the CH the greater to snag it will be. The ggg snagged on a few things, including my arm when I shot in different positions, shooting sbu prone was nearly impossible I had to go offhand to do it without issue. The tangodown worked the best as its rounded. I have not ran other handles, like the each, but just looking at its size its probably going to snag on kit easy and not allow you to shoot dynamically just like the ggg.

For me speed of reload and ease of use is most important, if it snags once I shitcan it, like the ggg and oem. Anything with a lip and non rounded edge will snag easy in any sort of dynamic shooting.

Also, the larger it is the more it sucks just hanging on your chest. All of the rifles weight pressing in on one point, sucks. Pistols transitions suck too (yeah, you, 'guide' the rifle down but it still ain't great, especially after numerous iterations--same goes for AR extended handles for that matter).

Of course, smaller is harder to grab. Everyone generally finds a, 'happy medium' someplace (which largely depends on a combination of gear and hand size).

Dave_M

11-11-12, 01:21

controlled pair.

Voodoo_Man

11-11-12, 01:43

Also, the larger it is the more it sucks just hanging on your chest. All of the rifles weight pressing in on one point, sucks. Pistols transitions suck too (yeah, you, 'guide' the rifle down but it still ain't great, especially after numerous iterations--same goes for AR extended handles for that matter).

Of course, smaller is harder to grab. Everyone generally finds a, 'happy medium' someplace (which largely depends on a combination of gear and hand size).

I agree. I did a good bit of transition reps livefire with all the ch's on purpose with kit. Fire to slidelock, transition to pistol, single shot, tac reloax rifle back on target single shot. I did that ten times straight with the ggg, I got tapped a few times and it gets caught up on gear, especially a frontline warbelt. I did the same on the move, fast and slow, it got weird with the ggg, sometimes I didnt want to guide it down but throw it to the left side and it gets stuck on gear, mags etc...

As I stated in my review. I dont have giant meatcleavers for hands, so the tangodown works well for me since I am able to get a finger or hand onto it for use.

Guess I should post up in the tips and tricks thread for different ways of charging/using the charging system.

MOUNT-N-SLOT

04-24-13, 14:19

http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af110/mount-n-slot/IMG_1547_zps443f1946.jpg

http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af110/mount-n-slot/IMG_1531_zps98b3102a.jpg

http://jerkingthetrigger.com/blog/2013/04/24/review-iwc-scar-charger-scar-charging-handle/

IWC announces our new SCAR Charger charging handle for all SCAR's.

http://www.impactweaponscomponents.com/product/scar-charger/

MOUNT-N-SLOT

Voodoo_Man

04-24-13, 14:21

Can I use it as a bottle opener?

:D

Kidding, looks like an interesting design, might give this one a go eventually.

What kind of T&E did IWC do?

MOUNT-N-SLOT

04-24-13, 18:39

Can I use it as a bottle opener?

:D

Kidding, looks like an interesting design, might give this one a go eventually.

What kind of T&E did IWC do?

We made 3 previous revs as we reached this one. Travis Haley used it for several months and really liked it. We gave several away to SCAR users, both civilian and military, who all liked it. It's been completed for 10 months prior to launching today. It's the 2nd most expensive IWC R&D project to date, believe it or not.

Voodoo_Man

04-24-13, 18:51

We made 3 previous revs as we reached this one. Travis Haley used it for several months and really liked it. We gave several away to SCAR users, both civilian and military, who all liked it. It's been completed for 10 months prior to launching today. It's the 2nd most expensive IWC R&D project to date, believe it or not.

Interesting.

Guess I will need to pick one up and see how I like it.

Thanks for the post.

Ferris2son

04-24-13, 22:39

I did not mean I'll be doing more reviews of charging handles unless someone gifts me an one which I do not have or unless I can buy for extremely cheap as I do not need any more charging handles.

I'd still like to send you an EACH if you want.

Iraqgunz

04-24-13, 22:50

Can you provide some details about material constructions and why you chose the current design? Was it to compromise design? Any complaints about the thinness of the latch?

MOUNT-N-SLOT

04-24-13, 22:53

Can you provide some details about material constructions and why you chose the current design? Was it to compromise design? Any complaints about the thinness of the latch?

IWC's?

Iraqgunz

04-25-13, 00:23

Sorry, yes.

IWC's?

MOUNT-N-SLOT

04-25-13, 19:49

Our goals were: No host weapon wear; no weight gain; single piece; clear the optics; improved weapons manipulation; gouging weapon.

Each of the three previous designs evolved into this product. We selected 4140 which wears slightly vs. the SCAR carrier, like the original FHN CH. We chose Melonite vs. phosphate / BL OX, for wear and corrosion resistance.

The paddle shape and cut-out center increased the contact surface on your hand / finger. The tapered end acts to cradle your finger and snags gear less than the factory CH's sharp round edge. Stuff slides past ours. The 45 degree placement of this feature vs. insertion shaft pulls your finger down and away, providing the desired clearance.

It protrudes laterally the same as the stock CH and weighs within a tenth of an OZ of the FNH CH.

MOUNT-N-SLOT

RHINOWSO

04-26-13, 10:21

Looks interesting. If I wasn't already very happy with the E.A.C.H. I would consider picking one up.

I'm happy with other IWC products, so I bet they did a good job with the SCAR CH.

I tried the Tango Down one very briefly, didn't like it much.

Voodoo_Man

05-07-13, 19:06

I will definitely be running this as soon as possible. Definitely sets the bar high.

http://i.imgur.com/FkBk2Ty.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/BRNCnXZ.jpg

Comparison to the TangoDown I was running, as you can see surface contact area is expanded.

http://i.imgur.com/2S0vsIg.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/26tyMwZ.jpg

On the gun

http://i.imgur.com/v9v9kdY.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Xcc8U2C.jpg

SCAR17SGuy

04-03-14, 20:03

Just ordered a IWC for my Heavy! http://www.impactweaponscomponents.com/product/scar-charger/
Happy! Happy! Happy!
:dirol:

ShipWreck

04-06-14, 03:51

I wrote a review if the GG&G charging handle when I got it for my SCAR 16 last year. Here it is:

As most forum members are well aware of, there are several different charging handles around to replace the factory one. With my Mepro 21 reflex sight, I have sorta the same problem that people with an Eotech have... It's so easy to bang your hand on the optics mounting area while using the charging handle.

I looked at all the various ones for a while, and I really figured I'd go with the IWC charging handle. However, I had a lot of free Amazon credit card points. Only the GG&G charging handle was for sale on Amazon. It was my second choice, and I figured I'd give it a shot, since it technically costs me no money to use the amazon points. And, if I didn't like it, I could always sell it and get the IWC one.

Well, I got it in on yesterday and it installs very easily. After playing around with it for a while on the gun, I am very happy with it. It has the same overall shape of the factory handle - just at a downward angle.

There are tons of reviews that promote 1 particular handle, and have negative things to say about the others. I've read both about the GG&G one. After using it now, I think I made the right choice. I haven't actually used the IWC one - but from looking at the photos of it some more, I think the GG&G was the way to go for me afterall.

Anyway - a few photos:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g320/mistershipwreck/scarhandle1_zpsabcf5740.jpg~original

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g320/mistershipwreck/scarhandle3_zps5ef081d6.jpg~original

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g320/mistershipwreck/scarhandle2_zps80fa68e8.jpg~original

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g320/mistershipwreck/scarhandle4_zps558eeb7e.jpg~original

Now that I have had it on the weapon for many months since I wrote the mini review, I am very pleased with it. I would buy the GG&G handle again!

Fox33

04-06-14, 21:16

So when Handl Defense was in the process of finalizing the product list for the Mk.17 / Mk.20 improvement program, the subject of a new charging handle was brought up.

I showed them the IWC SCAR charger. The idea of a Handl Defense charging handle was immediately dropped. The IWC is that good IMO.

The only thing after playing with it was maybe some knurling on the gripping surface

thmpr

04-06-14, 23:48

After trying the IWC, replaced all my SCARs (4) E.A.C.H. design and stuck with the IWC. I prefer the compactness of the design. It gave all the pluses of the E.A.C.H but the E.A.C.H. was just to large for the SCAR.

chainring

01-31-15, 12:15

Dang, now I'm torn - I want to try the IWC and the TD.

Voodoo_Man

01-31-15, 12:34

Dang, now I'm torn - I want to try the IWC and the TD.

The IWC is very nice.

Fox33

01-31-15, 20:31

I second the IWC

RHINOWSO

01-31-15, 20:33

I might try an IWC, I have two early EACH without the gaudy logo.

They are kind of big but in operation are great and never miss a beat.