View Full Version : Poly Lower
Cpnraisnuts
11-04-12, 01:21
Normally I would say that I hate the 10 day waiting period here in California, but this time I'm glad. I went to my local gun store and one of the sales guys there sold me on a poly lower (FMK AR1 Patriot), saying that it fit better than any forged lower on any of the Delton uppers that he owns. I paid for the lower and DROS fee and went on my way.
After returning home, I started having second thoughts about the purchase and started to wonder if it was a hard sell. Must be a pretty good mark-up on a piece of plastic. I started searching the inter webs and found this site. I've been reading a lot here, and have a lot more to go, but at a minimum I know I don't want a plastic lower.
I went back to the store and told them that I changed my mind and no longer want the poly lower. Since the DROS is non refundable I had to decide on something, and they said they had some Spikes, Stag and Aero Precision coming in. After looking around this site, I settled on the AP. If that's a bad quality lower, I'll sell it and find a different FFL. Lesson learned.
Now to get back to the stickies to figure out what I want to build.
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Aero Precision makes alot of stuff for also a lot of people. There is nothing wrong with them. You were right to traseh the poly crap. One thing you will quickly learn about gun store sales people is they are often full of shit and clueless.
ICANHITHIMMAN
11-04-12, 05:01
Great first post, Welcome to the site. So glad you fixed this yourself I have built up and areo very nice products.
Have two AP lowers and they came together very well. Welcome.
Suwannee Tim
11-04-12, 06:30
.........One thing you will quickly learn about gun store sales people is they are often full of shit and clueless.
I was in the largest local gun shop Saturday and one of the youngsters behind the counter was lecturing one of the customers who expressed an interest in reloading on the evils of reloaded ammunition. He compared it to plying whores without a rubber. He said he would never do such a thing to guns he loved. I decided to have some fun with them and talked for five minutes or so about my handloading career. The kid was just astonished. For all his "knowledge" and "experience" he had evidently never talked to a serious handloader. I was surprised he actually listened. I've had the same experience repeated a hundred times on various topics and I don't spend a lot of time in gun shops. About every other time if not two out of three times you walk into a typical gunshop you are going to be given bad information.
number1olddog
11-04-12, 09:48
One thing you will quickly learn about gun store sales people is they are often full of shit and clueless.[/QUOTE]
+1. I was in my local gun shop this last week and one of their customers were complaining about how his S&W Sport was not extracting steel case ammo. The salesman behind the counter took the barrel off, smothered the chamber with vaseline and began to dremel the chamber with a polishing wheel. I have never seen anything like that in my life.
TriviaMonster
11-04-12, 10:07
One thing you will quickly learn about gun store sales people is they are often full of shit and clueless.
+1. I was in my local gun shop this last week and one of their customers were complaining about how his S&W Sport was not extracting steel case ammo. The salesman behind the counter took the barrel off, smothered the chamber with vaseline and began to dremel the chamber with a polishing wheel. I have never seen anything like that in my life.[/QUOTE]
That is truly insane. What terrible things have come to fruition because of the Dremel?
On topic, I think one day poly lowers may take over. Let me change that, could take over. Who knows, but right now Al isn't exactly proving to be a big downside to the current TDP. Maybe we will see carbon fiber lowers too? Who knows. And, FYI, I am talking about .mil weapons not silly toys with insane price tags like the Christiansen Arms carbon fiber barreled guns.
But, until I see a poly lower with a pony on the side and it's TDP spec, no thanks.
skywalkrNCSU
11-04-12, 10:24
Local gun stores are good for three things
1. Reloading components and not having to pay the hazmat fee
2. FFL Transfers
3. Humor
Cpnraisnuts
11-04-12, 11:25
... One thing you will quickly learn about gun store sales people is they are often full of shit and clueless.
+1
Also seem to pad the DROS. Should have only been $25.00. I wonder how many of their other customers got charged this and didn't notice? I got my $10 back, but if you look at the receipt, it doesn't appear that this is a mistake. Needless to say, after I get my lower, I will shop somewhere else. It's too bad, because I really like to support local owned business.
Thanks for the welcome to the site.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/05/ejyhema4.jpg
From http://oag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs#13
How much is the Dealer's Record of Sale (DROS) fee?
The State's DROS fee is $19.00 which covers the costs of the background checks and transfer registry. There is also a required $1.00 Firearms Safety Testing fee and a $5.00 Safety and Enforcement fee. If the transaction being processed is a dealer sale, consignment return, or return from pawn, the dealer may impose other charges as long as this amount is clearly shown as a "dealer fee" and not misrepresented as a state fee. In the event of a private party transfer, the firearms dealer may additionally charge a fee of $10 per firearm transferred.
When settling on the purchase price of a firearm and before completing the transaction, you may want to ask the dealer to disclose and identify any and all fees he/she is charging to complete the transaction.
(PC Sections 12076, 12082, and 12806)
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
I was in my local gun shop this last week and one of their customers were complaining about how his S&W Sport was not extracting steel case ammo. The salesman behind the counter took the barrel off, smothered the chamber with vaseline and began to dremel the chamber with a polishing wheel. I have never seen anything like that in my life.
What the Hell?! That is a horror story. These homemade gunsmiths that lurk at gun counters scare the crap out of me.
Suwannee Tim
11-04-12, 12:17
.....What terrible things have come to fruition because of the Dremel?......
There is no problem that cannot be made worse with a Dremel tool.
Local gun stores are good for three things
1. Reloading components and not having to pay the hazmat fee
2. FFL Transfers
3. Humor
You forgot number 4.
4. Getting guns pointed at you.
What the Hell?! That is a horror story. These homemade gunsmiths that lurk at gun counters scare the crap out of me.
I was at the range Friday and helped a guy who had two rifles scoped at Shooters, the largest LGS. They used Leupold mounts on both guns, the kind with a screw on each side of the rear base. Neither scope was even close. Prior to Friday I reworked three LGS scope jobs in the last two or three weeks. Five in less than a month.
We can do without the (now deleted) posts that smack of illegal firearms modifications....and any that quote them.
polymorpheous
11-04-12, 14:19
It seems that particular poster holds a 07/02 FFL/SOT.
No harm no foul.
But he should disclose this so people don't get the wrong idea.
Suwannee Tim
11-04-12, 20:00
Why do I always miss out on the good shit?
I was at the range Friday and helped a guy who had two rifles scoped at Shooters, the largest LGS. They used Leupold mounts on both guns, the kind with a screw on each side of the rear base. Neither scope was even close. Prior to Friday I reworked three LGS scope jobs in the last two or three weeks. Five in less than a month.
By "local range" do you mean Gateway? As far as Shooters goes, it's hard to beat their prices on a lot of stuff but I usually end up leaving mad because of the asshats who work there.
OP, which California shop is this?
Just get the Aero Precision, Stag, or Spikes. It doesn't really matter. I got a Stag lower and it works fine.
Suwannee Tim
11-05-12, 04:21
By "local range" do you mean Gateway? As far as Shooters goes, it's hard to beat their prices on a lot of stuff but I usually end up leaving mad because of the asshats who work there.
Yes and yes.
Dustin Cantrell
11-05-12, 08:21
I have a New Frontier Armory lower. Bought it stripped and put in a milspec LPK. I bought it for the weight savings, not the monetary savings and used it for a dedicated lightweight .22 LR AR. It weighs 3 lbs, 5 ounces without an optic or add about 5 ounces for the Vortex SPARC. I think the polymer lowers are great for that purpose. Would I build a weapon to go to war with or a SHTF rifle using a polymer lower? No, not without building one and testing it extensively. Do I have any reason to doubt it could serve that purpose? Not really except for the fact that it hasn't been tested in war. Would I build a centerfire weapon with a polymer lower for plinking? Absolutely. I don't think they're as horrible as everybody makes them out to be.
On topic, I think one day poly lowers may take over. Let me change that, could take over. Who knows, but right now Al isn't exactly proving to be a big downside to the current TDP.
Agreed, but there was nothing "wrong" with steel or alloy framed pistols pre-Glock either and look where we are now.
I have a New Frontier Armory lower. Bought it stripped and put in a milspec LPK. I bought it for the weight savings, not the monetary savings and used it for a dedicated lightweight .22 LR AR. It weighs 3 lbs, 5 ounces without an optic or add about 5 ounces for the Vortex SPARC. I think the polymer lowers are great for that purpose. Would I build a weapon to go to war with or a SHTF rifle using a polymer lower? No, not without building one and testing it extensively. Do I have any reason to doubt it could serve that purpose? Not really except for the fact that it hasn't been tested in war. Would I build a centerfire weapon with a polymer lower for plinking? Absolutely. I don't think they're as horrible as everybody makes them out to be.
I think the poly/carbon/composite lowers that use standard LPK's have higher potential than the plum crazy lowers with the plastic components. I have personally seen many of them go tits up just from casual shooting at the range.
However unlike the polymer pistols that were engineered from the start to have a poly frame, my thoughts are that the AR15/M16 FOW was designed with the aluminum receivers and it should stay that way for a SHTF/LE/MIL rifle.
It all depends on the quality of the material used.
Cav Arms poly lowers were very popular, and I never heard of any of them just breaking like some of the others.
As for gun store employees and their knowledge, trust me when I say the folks on the other side are no better.
polymorpheous
11-05-12, 10:33
It all depends on the quality of the material used.
Cav Arms poly lowers were very popular, and I never heard of any of them just breaking like some of the others.
As for gun store employees and their knowledge, trust me when I say the folks on the other side are no better.
Cav Arms lowers are fixed stock lowers.
Totally different design.
Poly lowers break at the takedown pin and the receiver extension.
+1
Also seem to pad the DROS. Should have only been $25.00. I wonder how many of their other customers got charged this and didn't notice? I got my $10 back, but if you look at the receipt, it doesn't appear that this is a mistake. Needless to say, after I get my lower, I will shop somewhere else. It's too bad, because I really like to support local owned business.
Thanks for the welcome to the site.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/05/ejyhema4.jpg
From http://oag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs#13
How much is the Dealer's Record of Sale (DROS) fee?
The State's DROS fee is $19.00 which covers the costs of the background checks and transfer registry. There is also a required $1.00 Firearms Safety Testing fee and a $5.00 Safety and Enforcement fee. If the transaction being processed is a dealer sale, consignment return, or return from pawn, the dealer may impose other charges as long as this amount is clearly shown as a "dealer fee" and not misrepresented as a state fee. In the event of a private party transfer, the firearms dealer may additionally charge a fee of $10 per firearm transferred.
When settling on the purchase price of a firearm and before completing the transaction, you may want to ask the dealer to disclose and identify any and all fees he/she is charging to complete the transaction.
(PC Sections 12076, 12082, and 12806)
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Holy hell! $90 for a pos plastic lower? You've got to be kidding me.
Holy hell! $90 for a pos plastic lower? You've got to be kidding me.
This says everything:eek:
Cpnraisnuts
11-06-12, 20:53
This says everything:eek:
Yep. Once I pick up the AP lower I'm done with them.
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Mr.Anderson
11-06-12, 21:05
My .02
Once upon a time I was looking at getting into Air Soft (yeah, yeah, I know. This is where the big boys play and AS is for kids :) ).
I couldn't even bring myself to buy a plastic (poly, whatever) AS gun.
Can't imagine buying a "real steel" one of poly/plastic.
As for Glocks.. they just don't really do it for me. I like a big hunk of metal. Currently, I have a Taurus PT92 that I carry concealed. I know, Taurus is one step above air soft stuff to some people. It's fine for me. I'm not LE or .mil and it hasn't let me down.
I can relate to the DROS stuff. I bought a Ruger P345 from Second Amendment Sports in Bako CA while I was out there once. PITA
90 for a complete lower - not stripped. That's the only reason they sell at all for these plinking builds
Cpnraisnuts
11-07-12, 22:09
Got my AP lower. Thanks for the helpful advice from everyone here. It took me a while to put it together. I wish I had a vice.
Now I'm free to shop where I want. Almost makes me sick to think for what I paid, I could have got more somewhere else. I guess it could be worse and I could have bought a whole rifle from them.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/08/buna5y3u.jpg
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polymorpheous
11-07-12, 22:47
You forgot to use the washer for your pistol grip.
Cpnraisnuts
11-07-12, 23:11
Oh shit! Lol. (Face palm).
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polymorpheous
11-08-12, 01:09
Oh shit! Lol. (Face palm).
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
No worries.
You'll end up replacing the A2 anyway.
Blazingace
11-09-12, 13:30
When it comes to getting new people to shoot and supplying them with knowledge gunshops seem to be substandard.
It is ashame that we are shooting (pun intended) ourselves in the foot with these certified dremel gunsmiths.
On topic, I think one day poly lowers may take over. Let me change that, could take over. Who knows, but right now Al isn't exactly proving to be a big downside to the current TDP. Maybe we will see carbon fiber lowers too? Who knows. And, FYI, I am talking about .mil weapons not silly toys with insane price tags like the Christiansen Arms carbon fiber barreled guns.
It's certainly possible if somebody were to take the time to correctly engineer the lower WITH the proper material. From what I've seen of most polymer lowers, the designers made a part virtually identical to a forged aluminum lower, except it's polymer, essentially assuming that it will behave the same way under repeated loading, which is a complete fallacy.
Well designed carbon fiber has strength values close to that of steel and weight in line with plastic.
Biggest issue with CF is that if you overload it, it's not just going to bend, it's going to break. Secondarily there are damage tolerance issues that would have to be solved. Nicks and dings that make an AL lower ugly, can severely compromise the structurual integrity of a CF part.
ETA
In the end manufacturing concerns may keep CF from ever being used in a gov't issue weapon. It's quite a bit easier and cheaper to consistently forge and machine an AL lower than it is to manufacture a CF component that's structurually consistent.
Suwannee Tim
11-09-12, 15:03
I saw this same discussion when the poly framed pistols came out.
Mr.Anderson
11-09-12, 16:23
I've had an idea about the Poly lower and wish to change my mind :D
It seems these may be OK? for a .22 plinker???
That's what I thought anyways...
*ETA*
In the latest issue of "Tactical Weapons" there is an add by Bushmaster for a poly lower.
Curious, on these polymer lowers. Are the pivot/takedown pin mount holes polymer as well or do some have metal inserts?
-Jax
Nope - no liner - poly on poly - another reason they don't last.
ericridebike
11-14-12, 15:58
Just ordered one of the New Frontier Armory polymer stripped lowers to try on a dedicated .22 that I am putting together. I figure for $42, it's worth a try. It will be pretty much for plinking at the range, so if it breaks, I'm out $42 & cut my plinking day short. We'll see how it does in this role. I agree that at this point, I wouldn't want to be trusting it for use in a duty or defensive weapon. It will be interesting to see how the evolution for the polymer lowers progresses, or not. I am surprised that we haven't seen some sort of skelotonized aluminum lower with a polymer shell around it.
Dustin Cantrell
11-14-12, 16:20
Just ordered one of the New Frontier Armory polymer stripped lowers to try on a dedicated .22 that I am putting together. I figure for $42, it's worth a try. It will be pretty much for plinking at the range, so if it breaks, I'm out $42 & cut my plinking day short. We'll see how it does in this role. I agree that at this point, I wouldn't want to be trusting it for use in a duty or defensive weapon. It will be interesting to see how the evolution for the polymer lowers progresses, or not. I am surprised that we haven't seen some sort of skelotonized aluminum lower with a polymer shell around it.
I think you will like the lower for that role. I put a Taccom FUL upper and Taccom butt stock on mine. Weighs 3 pounds, 5 ounces. Red dot adds 5 ounces.
http://imageshack.us/a/img23/4711/img1994800x600.jpg
ericridebike
11-14-12, 17:50
I think you will like the lower for that role. I put a Taccom FUL upper and Taccom butt stock on mine. Weighs 3 pounds, 5 ounces. Red dot adds 5 ounces.
http://imageshack.us/a/img23/4711/img1994800x600.jpg
Nice. I'm actually doing mine as a pistol with a 7" Taccom barrel. Slowly getting all of the pieces together as money allows.
When it comes to getting new people to shoot and supplying them with knowledge gunshops seem to be substandard.
It is ashame that we are shooting (pun intended) ourselves in the foot with these certified dremel gunsmiths.
I was in a local gun shop and overheard the clerk trying to sell a guy a DPMS (way over priced). He told the guy that barrel twist was just hype and that the 1/9 would shoot anything he wanted. Well, me and my big mouth, I called him on it and he called over another clerk and he seconded the first guy! Wow!!
I was in a local gun shop and overheard the clerk trying to sell a guy a DPMS (way over priced). He told the guy that barrel twist was just hype and that the 1/9 would shoot anything he wanted. Well, me and my big mouth, I called him on it and he called over another clerk and he seconded the first guy! Wow!!
I learned long ago not to feed the animals. Its not like they are actively ignorant, they just don't know better. Having worked at a gunshop before I can tell you stupidity abounds in most gun shops on both sides of the counter. Its better to assume all partys are completely retarded until proven otherwise.
I learned long ago not to feed the animals. Its not like they are actively ignorant, they just don't know better. Having worked at a gunshop before I can tell you stupidity abounds in most gun shops on both sides of the counter. Its better to assume all partys are completely retarded until proven otherwise.
I'm with you, BUT. I am the type that if I am not sure of what I'm talking about, I'll will say, I BELIEVE ....
It's amazing to me how some people speak about things that they haven't a clue as if it is 100% factual. Like it came directly from the lips of Jesus.
TunaFisherman
05-13-13, 13:53
My favorite is that one lgs customer who knows it all and inturrupts any good conversation, to tell you how good BM is because his cousins cousin is SF....and he said so...but then gets confused when you ask him what BCG you should use..... :dirol:
Im lucky the LGS I deal with know guns and dont try to sell crap to customers. Their honesty is why I continue to buy from them.
Happy Hunter
05-13-13, 20:09
My LGS guy goes by the name Grant. I no longer experience stupidity from that side of the counter.
My LGS guy goes by the name Grant. I no longer experience stupidity from that side of the counter.
Lucky you, it would really be nice to have someone truly knowledgeable across the counter if you had questions. I am by no means a AR guru, but I have built several and have a real affinity for the platform. It's terrible to say, but I know more about the platform than the LCS guys around here. Which speaks more of what they don't know, than what I know.
One of the main reasons I joined this site is to learn more. I am also a member of another site (not spoken highly of here). But, I am a sponge and I will sift through the info gained.
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