View Full Version : M4SD II Flash Comp
Hey another muzzle device thread!
http://griffinarmament.com/accessories/centerfire-muzzle/m4sd-flash-comp/
It looks like they took the Griffin Armament M4SD II and added tines on the end.
Gimmick or does this show promise? And has anyone tried one?
VIP3R please, the new Z-comp and BCM comp is enough already to ponder on! ;)
-Jax
VIP3R please, the new Z-comp and BCM comp is enough already to ponder on! ;)
-Jax
Haha I know, sometimes there are just too many options. I have a SR15 that is craving a new muzzle device and im trying to be patient and wait for the BCM comp but im very curious about the GA and Z-comp offerings.
Hey another muzzle device thread!
http://griffinarmament.com/accessories/centerfire-muzzle/m4sd-flash-comp/
It looks like they took the Griffin Armament M4SD II and added tines on the end.
Gimmick or does this show promise? And has anyone tried one?
I am with Griffin so take it for what it is, but we found in a test with m855 on a 16" barrel it basically cut all visible forward flash off of the tactical compensator without enhancing vertical flash spread associated with tactical compensators of this style. For some reason it is still visible through gen3 night vision. There must have been some very faint light there. I shot it back to back 3 times as I thought my eyes were deceiving me. It was weird. No visible forward flash, but through night vision it is still somewhat there.
If i had to estimate I would say a roughly 40% lower flash signature over the regular A2 dimensioned device.
This can be seen in the following flash test gallery:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10151468750954569.580913.172008254568&type=3
If you have any questions you can email me directly:
evan@griffinarmament.com
Thanks, happy shooting.
I am with Griffin so take it for what it is, but we found in a test with m855 on a 16" barrel it basically cut all visible forward flash off of the tactical compensator without enhancing vertical flash spread associated with tactical compensators of this style. For some reason it is still visible through gen3 night vision. There must have been some very faint light there. I shot it back to back 3 times as I thought my eyes were deceiving me. It was weird. No visible forward flash, but through night vision it is still somewhat there.
If i had to estimate I would say a roughly 40% lower flash signature over the regular A2 dimensioned device.
This can be seen in the following flash test gallery:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10151468750954569.580913.172008254568&type=3
If you have any questions you can email me directly:
evan@griffinarmament.com
Thanks, happy shooting.
The photos are pretty impressive. What is the concussion and noise like?
We need to build a .223 Gatling gun to test all of the devices at once. :cool:
I'm very interested in this comp also. Great price on AIM. It seems like a great idea, with the short prongs on the end. I'll have to pin mine to a 14.5", so I'd like to choose one with the least concussion. I'd like to try the bcm but waiting for them to release it is another thing. Im ready to drop the cash on this or the Battlecomp, just to get my rifle done and go shoot...
The photos are pretty impressive. What is the concussion and noise like?
Dirknar, We made various prototypes and basically compromised with this length as it works effectively on the most prevalent barrels on the market 14.5"+ without being grossly long. The longer tined prototypes worked better on shorter guns but were just a bit too long OAL. I believe there is a limit of length in a muzzle device that the market would tolerate.
Concussion is no more than that of the M4SD Tactical Compensator or a Battle Comp. I have never really seen concussion as much of a problem unless shooting roll over prone with a two port brake on sand or fine dirt. Shooting an M107 inside a small room is another matter entirely.
I have not metered it yet for noise but I intend on doing it next time I go to the range. I think it will be a few DB's higher as is common with muzzle devices. Nothing out of the ordinary though. Much quieter and less concussive than a PWS or our two port brake (my personal favorite device). The flash comp excels on 14.5" and longer barrels. It is not a great short barrel performer. Flash on short barrels is similar to that of a BC or our m4sd tactical comp. Really the only thing I have seen that does well for flash on short barrels, is dedicated aftermarket flash hiders. We offer one, but basically only as a courtesy to suppressor customers that might want a durable FH for use inside a can instead of a comp.
In my opinion muzzle control is better than that of the M4SD tactical comp or the BC offerings. That is my opinion though, so take it for what it is worth.
We will be submitting them to some notable reviewers in the next week or so, as well as submitting them to the NTOA member tested program (I'm not sure what credibility that offers the market, but I figured it cant hurt.)
I would imagine reviews could be published in 4-8 weeks. Not super fast for people chomping at the bit... just letting you know.
-Evan
We need to build a .223 Gatling gun to test all of the devices at once. :cool:
I think you're on to something here. There are just way too many options out there.
Thanks for the info quillbro.. I think Im going to buy it.. Cheapest price??
Does it come pre drilled to pin? does it come with peel washers or crush washer and pin?
Thanks for the info quillbro.. I think Im going to buy it.. Cheapest price??
Does it come pre drilled to pin? does it come with peel washers or crush washer and pin?
It does not come pre-drilled... we are considering that for future production. It comes with a laser cut over-travel stop tabbed washer for use with our M4SD-II sound suppressor (releasing to market in a few short weeks). It also comes with a peel washer. You can mount them with crush washers if you dont intend on using them with a suppressor.
Most of our dealers are pricing them the same, Joebob, AIM, SKD, ROGTac, etc.
It does not come pre-drilled... we are considering that for future production. It comes with a laser cut over-travel stop tabbed washer for use with our M4SD-II sound suppressor (releasing to market in a few short weeks). It also comes with a peel washer. You can mount them with crush washers if you dont intend on using them with a suppressor.
shoot me an email for pricing:
evan@griffinarmament.com
Oh dang.. I wonder how hard it well be to drill the hole.. Stainless is already hard, but hardened stainless?? I do have a drill press though and cutting oil..
Concussion is no more than that of the M4SD Tactical Compensator or a Battle Comp. I have never really seen concussion as much of a problem unless shooting roll over prone with a two port brake on sand or fine dirt. Shooting an M107 inside a small room is another matter entirely. i've been next to one in an enclosed outdoor range and i never want to repeat that.
I have not metered it yet for noise but I intend on doing it next time I go to the range. I think it will be a few DB's higher as is common with muzzle devices. Nothing out of the ordinary though. Much quieter and less concussive than a PWS or our two port brake (my personal favorite device). The flash comp excels on 14.5" and longer barrels. It is not a great short barrel performer. Flash on short barrels is similar to that of a BC or our m4sd tactical comp. Really the only thing I have seen that does well for flash on short barrels, is dedicated aftermarket flash hiders. We offer one, but basically only as a courtesy to suppressor customers that might want a durable FH for use inside a can instead of a comp.
In my opinion muzzle control is better than that of the M4SD tactical comp or the BC offerings. That is my opinion though, so take it for what it is worth.
-Evan
Very good to know on the concussion. I have used the Battle Comp on a couple of my rifles for the last year or so and i am used to how it feels, but as a couple members have noted the BC can drive your muzzle down. What turned me on the you guys was watching the 21st Century Gunfighter comparison test on youtube and noticing how there was similar performance between the m4sd II and the bc but the M4sd had less muzzle sway.
So you guys offering m4c member pricing?
VIP3R please, the new Z-comp and BCM comp is enough already to ponder on! ;)
-Jax
Prepare for mental overload:
http://www.ratworxusa.com/pagDetail.aspx?SKU=MA-1214-Night-Brake
http://www.ratworxusa.com/App_Images/data/images/MA-1214.JPG
Hot damn km what you gotta go and do that for... Its cheap too.. I've been chomping at the bit on choosing a muzzle device, haha..
Also: is there any muzzle lift performance difference between the regular m4sd version and the flash version? I only ask because of the use the prongs instead of the ports in the front.
Thanks
Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2
I got the M4SD ll flash comp, Thank you Quillbro you guys are great.. Great communication, and service.. I will be watching for that m4sd ll sound suppressor.
I got it installed and pin/welded it on friday night. I was able to drill through it without problem. I used two 1/8" drill bits and some oil, the first bit got dull really fast but I was able to break through the hardened surface. The next bit drilled the rest of the way easily. I just used the first bit to make the pin and put a quick weld on it.
I put 100rnds through it Saturday afternoon. Im no expert by any stretch but I love it.. It stays on target with a straight push back and no huge concussion. It is definitely a little louder/concussive than a A2 but of course that is to be expected, I didnt feel that it was obnoxious at all . I stood right in the blast zone, multiple times while my nephew shot it and it wasn't unbearable at all.. Im really loving this thing. I didnt notice any flash to the shooter at all.. We shot a few boxes of federal AR.223, and some 75gr/68 reloads. with some of my reloads, while watching the flash/comp from the side, I could see a small flash coming from the cage. Night testing and More testing with some mil ammo needs to be done for sure, but thats mostly the kind of ammo I shoot anyways.
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c25/Dirknar77/2012-11-18_09-34-15_336.jpg
quick vid showing my 12 yr old nephew shooting it. note:how he is supporting the rifle and the comp is still doing a fine job. He loved shooting it, and commented on how "light" it shot..
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c25/Dirknar77/th_111712211251.jpg (http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c25/Dirknar77/111712211251.mp4)
I got the M4SD ll flash comp, Thank you Quillbro you guys are great.. Great communication, and service.. I will be watching for that m4sd ll sound suppressor.
I got it installed and pin/welded it on friday night. I was able to drill through it without problem. I used two 1/8" drill bits and some oil, the first bit got dull really fast but I was able to break through the hardened surface. The next bit drilled the rest of the way easily. I just used the first bit to make the pin and put a quick weld on it.
I put 100rnds through it Saturday afternoon. Im no expert by any stretch but I love it.. It stays on target with a straight push back and no huge concussion. It is definitely a little louder/concussive than a A2 but of course that is to be expected, I didnt feel that it was obnoxious at all . I stood right in the blast zone, multiple times while my nephew shot it and it wasn't unbearable at all.. Im really loving this thing. I didnt notice any flash to the shooter at all.. We shot a few boxes of federal AR.223, and some 75gr/68 reloads. with some of my reloads, while watching the flash/comp from the side, I could see a small flash coming from the cage. Night testing and More testing with some mil ammo needs to be done for sure, but thats mostly the kind of ammo I shoot anyways.
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c25/Dirknar77/2012-11-18_09-34-15_336.jpg
quick vid showing my 12 yr old nephew shooting it. note:how he is supporting the rifle and the comp is still doing a fine job. He loved shooting it, and commented on how "light" it shot..
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c25/Dirknar77/th_111712211251.jpg (http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c25/Dirknar77/111712211251.mp4)
The pics look awesome and the video is very helpful in understanding how it performs. May i ask where you bought it from?
I emailed quillbro to the address that he provided above. He gave me a great price and i paid it and they shipped it fast..
I emailed quillbro to the address that he provided above. He gave me a great price and i paid it and they shipped it fast..
Glad you are enjoying the comp... I'm assuming you are running it on a 14.5"?
Here are a few pics of the M4SDII suppressors off our facebook page that can be used in conjunction with any of our M4SD muzzle devices. We just finished them and are shipping them this week. They will be updated to our website in a few weeks. and I am bringing a couple to SHOT Show
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/536573_10151542093579569_894907530_n.jpg
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/295753_10151542093099569_1914386309_n.jpg
Glad you are enjoying the comp... I'm assuming you are running it on a 14.5"?
Here are a few pics of the M4SDII suppressors off our facebook page that can be used in conjunction with any of our M4SD muzzle devices. We just finished them and are shipping them this week. They will be updated to our website in a few weeks. and I am bringing a couple to SHOT Show
Yep 14.5", I drilled a 1/8" hole through it to pin/weld without problem..
Do you have any videos or DB test with the new M4SDII ?
Being in a ban state, I have to ask...... Is this comp AWB state friendly?
Being in a ban state, I have to ask...... Is this comp AWB state friendly?
I'm going to say no...
The Tactical Compensator or Muzzle Brake would be fine since they are not considered flash hiders.
I run the Muzzle Brake, it is my favorite device. Most people like the Tactical Compensator or Flash Comp though.
I'm going to say no...
The Tactical Compensator or Muzzle Brake would be fine since they are not considered flash hiders.
I run the Muzzle Brake, it is my favorite device. Most people like the Tactical Compensator or Flash Comp though.
Out of curiosity, why do you prefer the Muzzle Brake over your other offerings?
Out of curiosity, why do you prefer the Muzzle Brake over your other offerings?
I run a 12" lmt piston upper. It just really smooths out the recoil impulse of the gun while really reducing recoil that allows fast follow ups. It interfaces with our suppressor just like all our other muzzle devices so if i want to kill flash i can just throw the can on. The flash comp though is great on 14.5+ barrels for flash reduction. It controls well on shorter guns but the only thing that truly kills flash is a dedicated FH.
We made different muzzle devices because there is no do all muzzle device and each individual customer has different wants/ needs.
My Flash Comp arrived today, Thank you Evan for the service.
My first impressions are:
The device is wonderfully machined with no observable machine marks. It is also not as large as i was expecting from the pictures. With the installation on my SR15 I went the easy way and used a crush washer vs the supplied shim kit. My reasoning is that i am not running a suppressor (yet) so there is no need to waste the kit at this time. Hopefully next week weather permitting i'll be able to put some rounds through it and have more feedback.
Pictures for now
http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u440/Jason_Prisbrey/IMG_20121130_164713.jpg
http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u440/Jason_Prisbrey/IMG_20121130_164658.jpg
http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u440/Jason_Prisbrey/IMG_20121130_164643.jpg
My Flash Comp arrived today, Thank you Evan for the service.
My first impressions are:
The device is wonderfully machined with no observable machine marks. It is also not as large as i was expecting from the pictures. With the installation on my SR15 I went the easy way and used a crush washer vs the supplied shim kit. My reasoning is that i am not running a suppressor (yet) so there is no need to waste the kit at this time. Hopefully next week weather permitting i'll be able to put some rounds through it and have more feedback.
Pictures for now
I like you as a customer, but I hate you for owning that rifle.... hahaha. Nice gun. Id love to hear more after you have had some time to shoot it. Talk about beautiful machining.... that gas block looks to die for. I have an LMT 12" MRP piston gun. I like it but it is nowhere as refined looking as that is.
Yep 14.5", I drilled a 1/8" hole through it to pin/weld without problem..
Do you have any videos or DB test with the new M4SDII ?
I am hitting the range next wednesday to take some video of the new M4SDII suppressor. It is going to be pretty unformal, nothing glamorous.
I did meter the can a few days ago. It was similar to the prototypes.
Id reduces signature 34db on a 14.5 and overall sound recorded with a mk18 (10.3") was 139db, which is below the 140db OSHA limit for impulse noises. The 139 was recorded while mounted to the M4SD Flash hider which is our most free flowing device. All baffled devices subtract another DB or two. All sound recording was done with a B&K 2209 1m left of muzzle mil std. and m855 ammo.
here is a attach/detach video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=iY59YUiBzHs
Another happy customer here. It reduces enough flash while still being an effective comp. By enough, I mean what can be seen by the naked eye. No ill effects on my L3 omni viii pvs.
I like you as a customer, but I hate you for owning that rifle.... hahaha. Nice gun. Id love to hear more after you have had some time to shoot it. Talk about beautiful machining.... that gas block looks to die for. I have an LMT 12" MRP piston gun. I like it but it is nowhere as refined looking as that is.
There's nothing wrong with the LMT, when i was deciding on a new rifle the LMT CQB/MRP was very high on the list. I just found this SR15 for a good price so i couldnt say no.
There's nothing wrong with the LMT, when i was deciding on a new rifle the LMT CQB/MRP was very high on the list. I just found this SR15 for a good price so i couldnt say no.
After surving a little while in the military it was aparent that anything KAC usually went to the cool guys...weapons are a status symbol in the military just like High end swiss time pieces are on wall street. Luckily I had a KAC to call my own before I separated from service. (I'm def not a cool guy, I just happened to be lucky). After having my mitts on some of their stuff, the edge in quality was obvious over rack grade mil spec guns. Your Carbine looks great. I like the lower especially... maybe thats what I need to do is just buy one of those lowers.
Glad you are enjoying the comp.
-Evan
Sorry for the delay, its been a crazy couple of weeks with work starting up a business.
I was finally able to put some rounds through the Flash Comp and i am very impressed with this muzzle device. My current setup was a KAC SR15 with a Vltor A5 Kit and a standard A2 FH, honestly between KAC's optimized gas system and the A5 this may be the smoothest shooting setup available on the market, or so i thought.
Firing a mixture of X193, M855, PMC, and Wolf through my now Flash Comp equipped rifle i immediately noticed an improvement in muzzle control. My Aimpoint acted like it was glued to the target and i didn't notice any downward force which can be present on other comps. I'm assuming this is the reason behind not having a row of ports at the 12 o'clock position.
My brother and I took turns standing a couple yards away from the rifle while the other fired to test noise and concussion vs his A2 equipped Colt and my Battlecomp equipped LMT, with eye and ear protection as always.
We both could not feel a difference between the M4SD II Flash Comp and the A2 when it came to concussion, and noise was very close, i wouldn't say the Flash Comp was louder by any means, but the sound was a different pitch. Concussion was slightly worse with the Battle Comp and it did seem to be the loudest of the bunch, however as many of you know it is a quality device.
We were shooting during the early afternoon on a bright sunny day so we did not have an opportunity to test flash, Saturday it is supposed to be overcast so we are planning on hitting the range again to test the flash.
Once again thank you Evan, i hope you sell truck loads of these devices and once we get set up better expect a dealer inquiry from us.
militarymoron
12-13-12, 21:34
i posted my writeup a few days ago, which included the flash comp:
http://www.militarymorons.com/weapons/ar.access2.html#griffinfc
also, a short video that illustrates how effective the flash comp was:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIYjvG8UrrE
i posted my writeup a few days ago, which included the flash comp:
http://www.militarymorons.com/weapons/ar.access2.html#griffinfc
also, a short video that illustrates how effective the flash comp was:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIYjvG8UrrE
Thank you MM, great comparison video and write up. Have you shot the devices at low light/night yet?
Vip3R:
Thanks for your insights on the device. Despite our several years in business, we are just starting to produce really market competitive products this year so we appreciate any buzz whatever the outcome. Although almost all has been favorable to this point. I can shed some light on the nightime abilities of this particular device. On 14.5"+ barrels its flash reduction performance is very pleasing. I would estimate it on about par with an A2 FH. On shorter barrels a dedicated FH is required for users concerned with flash, as no hybrid muzzle device can come close to the flash suppression of a dedicated FH.
Also, some credit goes to Military Moron with this device being so well balanced. He gave us some very good insight into what the comp was doing and some thoughts on how to make it better, without his input it wouldn't be what it is. I haven't been on this forum much in the past but it is obvious there is a host of knowledge and experience here that I could learn from. I'm looking forward to being a more active reader here.
-Evan
I'm going to say no...
The Tactical Compensator or Muzzle Brake would be fine since they are not considered flash hiders.
I run the Muzzle Brake, it is my favorite device. Most people like the Tactical Compensator or Flash Comp though.
Thanks for the info. Some other questions....
Is the only brake you guys have that will make a 14.5" barrel legal to 16"?
Do any GA brakes come predrilled for pinning?
Thanks!
militarymoron
12-14-12, 08:50
Thank you MM, great comparison video and write up. Have you shot the devices at low light/night yet?
thanks - not yet. tough to find a place to do that, that's not a long drive away.
evan - thanks; i'm always happy to provide what little input i can that hopefully improves a product, especially to companies that are receptive to it.
thanks - not yet. tough to find a place to do that, that's not a long drive away.
evan - thanks; i'm always happy to provide what little input i can that hopefully improves a product, especially to companies that are receptive to it.
Well my brother, dad, and I went out this evening to test the Flash Comp vs an A2.
Temp was 40 degrees, 70% humidity, and elevation of 2762 feet ASL.
Ammo used was Remington UMC, Federal M193 and XM855, PMC Bronze, and Winchester Q3131.
Click on the link to watch the Videos.
First video my brother and i alternated firing 2 shots each of the different ammo in this order:
UMC, PMC, XM855, Q3131, M193.
http://s1067.beta.photobucket.com/user/Jason_Prisbrey/media/IMG_0071_zps894639ee.mp4.html
The A2 is the better flash suppression device. However the Flash Comp is a very good hybrid device that has less flash than most of the other devices on the market and it flat blows away the A2 with muzzle control. Once again felt concussion was the same.
Example my dad shooting a Smith Brake, aka Flame Thrower. :D
http://s1067.photobucket.com/albums/u440/Jason_Prisbrey/?action=view¤t=IMG_0072_zpse84ee73c.mp4
militarymoron
12-16-12, 21:22
good vids, vip3r.
good vids, vip3r.
Thank you sir, it was my first try at videos.
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