View Full Version : Mega's New MKM-MATEN Upper
http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gearscout/2012/11/04/first-look-at-mega-arms-308-upper-receiver-mkm-maten/
Rail attaches directly to the upper and not the barrel nut (as it should!) like LaRue's rifles. Uses Noveske's KeyMod pattern vs quad rails or proprietary nuts. Looks like the NSR accessories will work.
This is very much the upper I've been waiting for to complete a recce build. Love it!
Article states how is is not the replacement for the monolithic upper, but I'm not sure how they could improve on this.
Tier One Arms
11-05-12, 00:15
This is exciting news, the KeyMod design is awesome! Really looking forward to more KeyMod accessories.
It seems to me the thing I see to get really excited about is the mounting system built into the upper. If Colt would have designed the AR upper's like this all rails would be freefloat, anti-rotation, and have the ability to put aiming devices on the rails as they are not attached via the barrel nut. I am really excited about this Mega might have created a game changer.
I am glad to see that they are following VLTOR/Noveske's Key Mod system as it has been a game changer for me and I hope it becomes an industry standard for the tubular slick rails out there.
"Mega's new LaRue/Noveske key mod hybrid upper"
If people could be tar and feathered for thread titles, I'm pretty sure the fire would already be started.
It can't be that hard to actually state what it is... which is listed in the article you reference.
"Mega's new LaRue/Noveske key mod hybrid upper"
If people could be tar and feathered for thread titles, I'm pretty sure the fire would already be started.
It can't be that hard to actually state what it is... which is listed in the article you reference.
Evidently I am not tracking?? Was this the original thread title?
"Mega's new LaRue/Noveske key mod hybrid upper"
Yea that was the title.
The upper and rail attach directly like the LaRue, and it uses a Noveske KeyMod system. Seemed fine to me because now the title is about MKM-MaTen and no one knows what the **** that is. Plus I'm only interested in this for their 556 setup and not the MaTen, so further the new subject is not one I would have picked.
Tar indeed
It seems to me the thing I see to get really excited about is the mounting system built into the upper. If Colt would have designed the AR upper's like this...
Exactly! And if only!
I would have liked for LaRue to sell OBR upper+rails. I'm glad MEGA is on this but I'm not sure what took so long, this seems far superior to barrel but mounting in ever possible way except upper cost. And with people buyin custom billet uppers regardless, why not attach the rail directly?
IMO this is better than their monolithic hands down. It won't be as stiff as the mono out at the end of the rail but it'll still be stiffer than any barrel nut mounted option. It's easier to reconfigure for length, upgrades, or options. No issues getting to the barrel nut or the gas block, which can now be any style including pinned. A damaged rail or upper doesn't scrap both. No long ass barrel nut tool, although the barrel nut is still unique at least the tool will be cheaper on the backend and won't be 10lbs/huge. This design still doesn't easily allow for FSB, but it does allow for a pinned muzzle device unlike the monos.
I can see no con to this system/method except that it is a proprietary upper and rail combo. So was the monolithic, and so is every rail system out there until the keymod mountin options.
If the final weight is lower than a MUR with an NSR handguard, then I'm definitely interested.
This is THE first thing that has had me reconsider picking up a 7.62 LT PdtObr. When Noveske or MEGA rolls out a Gen2 style SR-25 type lower, and Noveske gets back into the .308 barrel game, my wallet will only be able to wince.
Is there any indication that such a direction is being explored or is possible??
I REALLY hope Noveske will still offer a 308 NSR rail seperately!
Uses Noveske's KeyMod pattern vs quad rails or proprietary nuts. Looks like the NSR accessories will work.
The KeyMod accessories we make will work in any handguard with KeyMod slots, NSR specific accessories like panels will only fit the NSR.
If the final weight is lower than a MUR with an NSR handguard, then I'm definitely interested.
This is THE first thing that has had me reconsider picking up a 7.62 LT PdtObr. When Noveske or MEGA rolls out a Gen2 style SR-25 type lower, and Noveske gets back into the .308 barrel game, my wallet will only be able to wince.
I think that might be unrealistic as this rail is "most likely" going to have a larger diameter to handle 4 more rows of KM slots, not to mention the added weight of the proprietary attachment between rail and upper. I think it is a similar, but different animal than the NSR and probably just another great option for someone who needs what it offers. I think this will give VLTOR's new VIS-KM polylithics a run for the money as it "appears" to be a compromise between an NSR & a VIS-KM. Of course this is all just internet critiquing until they all are available and we "know" the specs and get to shoot'm ;)
not to mention the added weight of the proprietary attachment between rail and upper
Um... You think extendin the aluminum from the upper a little and bolting the rail to that wil somehow be heavier that a heafty 2"long steel barrel nut that the NSR attaches to?
I suspect this will neither but much heavier or lighter than a traditional upper with an NSR but will sure as hell be a lot stiffer.
The KeyMod accessories we make will work in any handguard with KeyMod slots, NSR specific accessories like panels will only fit the NSR.
Oh, Right. I had figured this profile was close enough that some of the NSR stuff might work but looking at it again I could see how that might not be the case. I wonder if the panels might fit in their ar15 version? I suspect SHOT will have quiet a few keymod accessories shown and a few of those will be panel options.
Um... You think extendin the aluminum from the upper a little and bolting the rail to that wil somehow be heavier that a heafty 2"long steel barrel nut that the NSR attaches to?
I suspect this will neither but much heavier or lighter than a traditional upper with an NSR but will sure as hell be a lot stiffer.
You have a point, but the rail will still have to be greater diameter and heavier out front where as the barrel nut is at the rifle's balance point. Until it is available we don't know and like I said it will probably have its place.
does anyone know if this upper is compatible with a knight/lmt mws lower? i would like to get a different upper for my lmt
does anyone know if this upper is compatible with a knight/lmt mws lower? i would like to get a different upper for my lmt
I'm not sure, if I run into my buddy who owns a sr25 I'll throw my MKM on and check.
TriviaMonster
02-01-13, 04:57
That is very cool and knowing Mega, it will be very nicely machined. Looking forward to pics of the final version Stickman.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
Any ETA at all on these things? I need to see weights. I've been unhappy with my TROY tube on my MATEN and am hoping for a stronger alternative without adding gobs of weight. What I really want is a 308 NSR rail - don't have to have the mono stuff.
I'm not sure, if I run into my buddy who owns a sr25 I'll throw my MKM on and check.
thank you very much.
We've gotta be getting REAL close.
To the best of my calculations, the MKM Rifle length upper will be approx. 2.4oz heavier than my std MATEN upper + rifle length TROY TRX, all things (including barrel nuts) considered.
I hate to add single ounce to my MATEN, but I think the added strength will be worth it.
It's gotta be any day now and I've got $600 burnin a hole. C'mon MEGA.
TacticalSledgehammer
02-14-13, 03:39
I'm looking forward to these being in stock somewhere.
bumping this thread,
does anyone know if this upper will fit on a lmt/sr25 lower?
bleaman225
04-22-13, 20:15
I'm not sure, if I run into my buddy who owns a sr25 I'll throw my MKM on and check.
bumping this thread,
does anyone know if this upper will fit on a lmt/sr25 lower?
I want to know too!
Stickman, ohhhhhhh Stickman....
Crazy Chuckster
04-22-13, 22:58
bumping this thread,
does anyone know if this upper will fit on a lmt/sr25 lower?
I ran across a post that said an LMT upper would fit on a Mega lower. If that is true you would think the opposite to work as well.
bleaman225
04-23-13, 17:32
I ran across a post that said an LMT upper would fit on a Mega lower. If that is true you would think the opposite to work as well.
Can you point us in the direction of that post Crayyyyyyyyyyyzayyyyyyy Chuckster?
Crazy Chuckster
04-23-13, 18:01
Can you point us in the direction of that post Crayyyyyyyyyyyzayyyyyyy Chuckster?
You got it.....
HERE (http://forum.snipershide.com/options-accessories-sale/185520-nib-mega-mkm-maten-extended-rifle-length-key-mod-upper.html)
Ninja edit: Thats not my thread, I just came across it in my travels.
bleaman225
04-23-13, 18:08
You got it.....
HERE (http://forum.snipershide.com/options-accessories-sale/185520-nib-mega-mkm-maten-extended-rifle-length-key-mod-upper.html)
Ninja edit: Thats not my thread, I just came across it in my travels.
Thanks that is perfect. Now I just want someone to confirm that functionally they are hunky dory.
bleaman225
04-23-13, 18:09
I might just guinea pig it. If I do, y'all shall know...
Crazy Chuckster
04-23-13, 18:17
The lines dont match up but its all about function not how pretty it is right ;)
bleaman225
04-23-13, 18:22
Yeah I don't care about the lines. I want to put the .308 Bartlein blank I have here into something and if that something has a keymod rail, I'm happy.
Crazy Chuckster
04-23-13, 18:27
I have a Maten set coated in Nickel Boron and would have loved to put a Keymod upper on it but have not seen any in NiB out yet.
Oh well it gets a PRI FF in black and it should do.
Dont see what is new about this? Keymod has been around for some time, as well as the receiver design. Seekins and a few other companies already have uppers utilizing the rail to receiver mounting design, only thing i see is adding keymod to the rail.
Anyways I still think monolithis is the way to go for ultimate rail alignment and precision but thats just me. Anyways mega is adding new stuff to their lineup which is good for them, hopefully this will be a sign of them brancing out and producing more things to come.
IMO this is better than their monolithic hands down. It won't be as stiff as the mono out at the end of the rail but it'll still be stiffer than any barrel nut mounted option.
I suspect this will neither but much heavier or lighter than a traditional upper with an NSR but will sure as hell be a lot stiffer.
I've been pondering this all day, and I'm not sure I believe it yet. I'm not saying your wrong, or I'm right... I'm just skeptical.
I once believed I needed a monolithic rail because a free float wouldn't be stiff enough to maintain accuracy when mounting sights/optics on one. After quite a few member politely told me I was insane, I reconsidered. If made of the same material and to similar specs (thickness, diameter, etc..) the actual "stiffness" of a rail vs the fore end of a mono-platform should be the same. Aluminum does not behave differently just because its formed into one or the other. The "joint" may not have the same stiffness as a solid piece, but that really depends on the design, materials used, and how rigid the connection is, doesn't it? If the rigidity of the joint is equal to or greater than the rigidity of solid aluminum, wouldn't the two have equal stiffness?
As far as comparing this to an NSR, again, I'm not sure I'm convinced it will be stiffer. Granted I've never personally handled either, but if you look at the designs, neither allow for rotation or lateral movement along any of the three axis. Both are secured with screws and the NSR uses the anti-rotation pin to prevent rotation around the axis of the bore, while the Mega appears to use matching grooves cut into the receiver and the hand guard. The only difference would be that the Mega attaches directly to the receiver, and the NSR to the barrel nut (which is attached to the receiver). While I agree that the less parts connected to parts connected to other parts the better, does it make a significant difference in this case? If all of your components are rigidly secured, no movement should be occurring between them. And if that's the case, we're really just discussing which combination of connecting components produces a higher rigidity, which may depend more on the tolerances between the parts than anything else. I'm assuming there is a considerable difference between the O.D. of the receiver and the I.D. of the hand guard where they connect, unless you are suppose to press fit them together first... :blink:
I guess all of this just to say, does it really matter? I'm no expert on this, but my assumption would be that by the time you start adding weight to a 12"+ hand guard in the form of accessories and introducing varied amounts of pressure though handling and firing the weapon, the aluminum rail itself is going to flex more than it's joining components... And is that flex enough to notice any amount of measurable difference in accuracy at a given range? My guess is no. Remember the original design was a FSB attached to the barrel and a rear sight incorporated into the receiver, with those two components held together the same way they are now: with a barrel nut.
But maybe I'm wrong... Feel free to try to convince me otherwise.
I'm not saying the Mega doesn't come with advantages. Compared to a mono-platform it allows at least a limited choice of rails, and the option to change lengths if desired. Compared to the NSR it offers keymod attachments at 45 degree offsets, rather than just 90, 180, and 270 degrees. Its larger diameter and the fact that it does not contact the barrel nut should keep it considerably cooler than the NSR as well, which I've heard can get quite hot. However, the NSR has advantages over the Mega as well, notably being the smaller diameter, possibly lighter weight (although we're talking ounces or fractions of ounces at this point), and the fact that it attaches to a steel barrel nut rather than an aluminum receiver. Steel threads are much less likely to strip from over torquing, and even if they do you've only ruined a barrel nut, not your very expensive proprietary upper receiver. ;)
I've been pondering this all day, and I'm not sure I believe it yet. I'm not saying your wrong, or I'm right... I'm just skeptical.
I once believed I needed a monolithic rail because a free float wouldn't be stiff enough to maintain accuracy when mounting sights/optics on one. After quite a few member politely told me I was insane, I reconsidered. If made of the same material and to similar specs (thickness, diameter, etc..) the actual "stiffness" of a rail vs the fore end of a mono-platform should be the same. Aluminum does not behave differently just because its formed into one or the other. The "joint" may not have the same stiffness as a solid piece, but that really depends on the design, materials used, and how rigid the connection is, doesn't it? If the rigidity of the joint is equal to or greater than the rigidity of solid aluminum, wouldn't the two have equal stiffness?
As far as comparing this to an NSR, again, I'm not sure I'm convinced it will be stiffer. Granted I've never personally handled either, but if you look at the designs, neither allow for rotation or lateral movement along any of the three axis. Both are secured with screws and the NSR uses the anti-rotation pin to prevent rotation around the axis of the bore, while the Mega appears to use matching grooves cut into the receiver and the hand guard. The only difference would be that the Mega attaches directly to the receiver, and the NSR to the barrel nut (which is attached to the receiver). While I agree that the less parts connected to parts connected to other parts the better, does it make a significant difference in this case? If all of your components are rigidly secured, no movement should be occurring between them. And if that's the case, we're really just discussing which combination of connecting components produces a higher rigidity, which may depend more on the tolerances between the parts than anything else. I'm assuming there is a considerable difference between the O.D. of the receiver and the I.D. of the hand guard where they connect, unless you are suppose to press fit them together first... :blink:
I guess all of this just to say, does it really matter? I'm no expert on this, but my assumption would be that by the time you start adding weight to a 12"+ hand guard in the form of accessories and introducing varied amounts of pressure though handling and firing the weapon, the aluminum rail itself is going to flex more than it's joining components... And is that flex enough to notice any amount of measurable difference in accuracy at a given range? My guess is no. Remember the original design was a FSB attached to the barrel and a rear sight incorporated into the receiver, with those two components held together the same way they are now: with a barrel nut.
But maybe I'm wrong... Feel free to try to convince me otherwise.
I'm not saying the Mega doesn't come with advantages. Compared to a mono-platform it allows at least a limited choice of rails, and the option to change lengths if desired. Compared to the NSR it offers keymod attachments at 45 degree offsets, rather than just 90, 180, and 270 degrees. Its larger diameter and the fact that it does not contact the barrel nut should keep it considerably cooler than the NSR as well, which I've heard can get quite hot. However, the NSR has advantages over the Mega as well, notably being the smaller diameter, possibly lighter weight (although we're talking ounces or fractions of ounces at this point), and the fact that it attaches to a steel barrel nut rather than an aluminum receiver. Steel threads are much less likely to strip from over torquing, and even if they do you've only ruined a barrel nut, not your very expensive proprietary upper receiver. ;)
Necro bump.
Hmmm, good points above.
I am considering the Mega MKM for a precision .308 AR build, but am weighing that against the Mega Megalithic which was added to the lineup in the meantime.
The Megalithic is essentially a monolithic 1-piece upper & handguard. My only concern is if this complicates installation of set screw gas blocks, and muzzle devices.
If anyone here owns either the MATEN MKM or Megalithic, wha are your experiences, and out of interest, what's the O.D. of the handguard?
I've got the MKM 308. It's solid. I replaced a MATEN std upper with a TROY tube with it.
Those TROY tubes suck assholes on the 308 platform. Too much weight for that cheesy mount - just loosens right up.
The MKM is rock solid, but it is kinda fat.
After using NSRs for years and KMRs, the MKM feels like I'm grabbing a leg or something. I can't say I've seen a perfect 308 hand guard yet. I wish BCM would make a 12/13 KMR for the 308 DPMS high profile.
I've got the MKM 308. It's solid. I replaced a MATEN std upper with a TROY tube with it.
Those TROY tubes suck assholes on the 308 platform. Too much weight for that cheesy mount - just loosens right up.
The MKM is rock solid, but it is kinda fat.
After using NSRs for years and KMRs, the MKM feels like I'm grabbing a leg or something. I can't say I've seen a perfect 308 hand guard yet. I wish BCM would make a 12/13 KMR for the 308 DPMS high profile.
I used to have a MATEN standard upper with a Troy tube on it too.
Ended up selling it, and getting an Armalite AR-10A, which has a Midwest Industries KeyMod tube on it. I'm not sure if the attachment method is any better or worse than the Troy, but I do like the slim diameter of the MI tube.
I now have another Armalite AR-10A, and am thinking of sticking one of the new Armalite KeyMod handguards on there.
I am tempted by the idea of picking up a MATEN MKM, but would prefer if it's not too much wider than the MI tube.
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