View Full Version : M&P Competition Optics Ready Equipment (CORE)
not sure if this made the rounds today or not yet. new M&P with OEM base for reflex sights.
http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson2/upload/other/M&PCOREPRNASGW2012Final.pdf
sounds interesting for sure.
I think this is a great idea from s&w, I personally think rmr's/mrds's *could* be the wave of the future.
It's nice to see a factory option.
EDIT
WickedWillis
11-07-12, 18:44
sounds pretty cool. I will be buying an M&P very soon, but i may wait for this. Good find.
MSRP pricing isn't horrible either, considering these pistols essentially sound like they have a factory trigger-job included (Performance Center Sear at ~4.5#):
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Category3_750001_750051_757896_-1_Y
Curious how the interchangeable sight base works exactly though, it sounds like it comes with a series of pre-drilled plates with different mounting patterns on them.
Sounds pretty good. I'll wait to see the final outcome.
theblackknight
11-07-12, 18:52
This is stupid. How about they make some 9's that will group and a trigger break(not reset) that isnt so cringe worthy, and then do that for a while to get good guns out and build their rep back up.
Plus, this is NOT a competition model. They might call it that, but no actual open class shooter would want to run a slide mounted optic. How many open guns do you see with normal sights on it?
(waiting on someone to post Julie's "open" MP so I can laugh.)
The PC sear is ok, would be great as a normal trigger. I gave mine to my buddy for his VTAC .
Leonidas24
11-07-12, 22:27
I'll get on the phone with Plaxco tomorrow or Friday to see if they'll be offering individual slides for sale. I know a lot of people that would like to have an extra slide to run an RMR on in addition to a stock slide.
I like them a lot. Depending how they work out, I will definitely order one.
I'll get on the phone with Plaxco tomorrow or Friday to see if they'll be offering individual slides for sale. I know a lot of people that would like to have an extra slide to run an RMR on in addition to a stock slide.
That would be most interesting. Please report back on this!
This is stupid. How about they make some 9's that will group and a trigger break(not reset) that isnt so cringe worthy, and then do that for a while to get good guns out and build their rep back up.
Plus, this is NOT a competition model. They might call it that, but no actual open class shooter would want to run a slide mounted optic. How many open guns do you see with normal sights on it?
(waiting on someone to post Julie's "open" MP so I can laugh.)
The PC sear is ok, would be great as a normal trigger. I gave mine to my buddy for his VTAC .
S&W is playing into the tactidouche market. Ie the guy that has no real understanding of how to press a trigger but absolutely must have serrations on his serrations and optics on his optics. Dawg.
They're going where the market is, not necessarily where the market should go.
In all seriousness, the nomenclature is stupid, you're 100% correct, this is NOT a competition pistol unless the world of competitive shooting sports is about to turn itself upside down and allow these style of pistols to be used in production/limited class. Having said that, there are TONS of other users out there that would like to give the concept a whirl and it certainly DOES have validity. It is not quite there yet but it COULD be the way of the future.
It is also a pretty damned good deal IF the system is well thought out and modular.
This is really good news. I read on a web site a while back that S&W was working on this with bowie. It looks like they finally did it. And at that price point it will get a lot more people into the mrds handgun. And for those who dont think mrds on a handgun is an advantage you most likely have not ever used one. They are great and while they might not be the whole future they are going to be part of it.
Beat Trash
11-08-12, 09:26
And according to the press release S&W is finally stippling the grip inserts with an "aggressive texture".
This could be a very interesting gun.
And according to the press release S&W is finally stippling the grip inserts with an "aggressive texture".
This could be a very interesting gun.
Here is the picture from their website.
http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson2/upload/images/firearms/detail_md/178061_05_md.jpg
Perhaps this is a precursor of things to come at SHOT...wouldn't be surprised to see other manufacturers release optics ready handguns. FN was the first to offer MRDS optics ready, but the S&W M&P has a much broader user base. Will be interesting to see if Glock follows suit...
S&W is playing into the tactidouche market. Ie the guy that has no real understanding of how to press a trigger but absolutely must have serrations on his serrations and optics on his optics. Dawg.
They're going where the market is, not necessarily where the market should go.
In all seriousness, the nomenclature is stupid, you're 100% correct, this is NOT a competition pistol unless the world of competitive shooting sports is about to turn itself upside down and allow these style of pistols to be used in production/limited class. Having said that, there are TONS of other users out there that would like to give the concept a whirl and it certainly DOES have validity. It is not quite there yet but it COULD be the way of the future.
It is also a pretty damned good deal IF the system is well thought out and modular.
Agreed.
We waited 14 months of freaking pistols from them, they're back ordered to all hell on Shields and rifles now, and they want to devote machining time to optic mounts.
Just another example of MBA's running gun companies with no understanding of what market they're even in.
This is really good news. I read on a web site a while back that S&W was working on this with bowie. It looks like they finally did it. And at that price point it will get a lot more people into the mrds handgun. And for those who dont think mrds on a handgun is an advantage you most likely have not ever used one. They are great and while they might not be the whole future they are going to be part of it.
I wouldn't be so quick to say that.
I tried them years ago, and I know more people than not that have problems with theirs.
They are much slower on your draw to first shot, and for a CCW... draw to first (aimed) shot is probably the most important skill to have, and time to worry about.
This is stupid. How about they make some 9's that will group and a trigger break(not reset) that isnt so cringe worthy, and then do that for a while to get good guns out and build their rep back up.
Plus, this is NOT a competition model. They might call it that, but no actual open class shooter would want to run a slide mounted optic. How many open guns do you see with normal sights on it?
(waiting on someone to post Julie's "open" MP so I can laugh.)
The PC sear is ok, would be great as a normal trigger. I gave mine to my buddy for his VTAC .
have you tried a recently manufactured m&p? mine have great triggers, with a crisp break. trigger pull is consistent too. my 2009 m&p has a weak break, but i have a 2011 manufacture and 2 2012 m&ps and they are great. much less creep than my gen 4 glocks
try one out! accuracy seems to be hit or miss, mine have been fine
I'll get on the phone with Plaxco tomorrow or Friday to see if they'll be offering individual slides for sale. I know a lot of people that would like to have an extra slide to run an RMR on in addition to a stock slide.
Getting slides out of S&W is REALLY difficult (FYI).
C4
We ordered a bunch of these guns and will offer them up with Trijicon RMR (package deals).
C4
I wouldn't be so quick to say that.
I tried them years ago, and I know more people than not that have problems with theirs.
They are much slower on your draw to first shot, and for a CCW... draw to first (aimed) shot is probably the most important skill to have, and time to worry about.
I will agree that for some the first shot will be slower. But with training and practice I have gotten to the point were I am faster with my tsd glock rmr than I am with stock irons.
I think that with proper training the mrds handguns are a huge leap forward. I know some if not most will disagree with that. However I know a number of people who feel the same way I do. And because of that I feel that mrds guns will be around for a while.
Grant,
Can we email you to get on the list for and M&P RMR package?
We ordered a bunch of these guns and will offer them up with Trijicon RMR (package deals).
Will be cool once we see pricing info. :D
Looks like the T1 is not supported, unlike with the Unity Atom.
Grant,
Can we email you to get on the list for and M&P RMR package?
I'd love to get a 9L version from grant!
Just so long as they don't go down the road of sig and start pumping every conceivable tacticool abomination they can think of good for them.
That said I'd wish they'd fix the dam 9s and expand the shield line (full size single stacks please) first tho lol. Oh and do a Apex factory line of guns too.
I don't think it's fair to lump this in with tacticool mall ninja-pandering. There are a lot of people paying a decent chunk of change to get their slides milled and appropriate sights installed - this just saves them a step. It's good business and good for the consumer (who saves money on the gunsmithing and saves resale value - easier to sell a factory red dot-ready gun than one with no particular provenance).
I suspect it won't be long before all the big boys are offering this on at least one model.
So I read somewhere the barrels have a different twist. Any confirmation? Did they fix the unlocking problem?
Grant,
Can we email you to get on the list for and M&P RMR package?
Sure can.
C4
So I read somewhere the barrels have a different twist. Any confirmation? Did they fix the unlocking problem?
They should be switching to 1/10 twist shortly.
C4
Super interested. Email is on its way.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2
Hey Grant, will you be offering some with a Delta Point also. Would be curious about getting some of the new grip inserts too..........:)
Hey Grant, will you be offering some with a Delta Point also. Would be curious about getting some of the new grip inserts too..........:)
Not a fan of them so no.
C4
They should be switching to 1/10 twist shortly.
C4
Is that across all of the 9mm models or just the CORE series?
theblackknight
11-10-12, 21:28
have you tried a recently manufactured m&p? mine have great triggers, with a crisp break. trigger pull is consistent too. my 2009 m&p has a weak break, but i have a 2011 manufacture and 2 2012 m&ps and they are great. much less creep than my gen 4 glocks
try one out! accuracy seems to be hit or miss, mine have been fine
My Pro 5" 9 has a DFX serial prefix, secured it in march while still overseas.It's my Production Div ride and it's very accurate as in 2.5" with me shooting SHO at 25, I'm not putting a barrel in it. I got lucky as a forum member here pointed me to it from a local to him shop. They are hard to come by, as Jim D mentioned, which is why this bull:eek: makes even less sense.
The trigger was still ****ing horrible. Why can't S&W do what apex does, from the factory? They have the ass to do it for cheaper right?
If they finally did fix the barrels, good, FINALLY, but how about they pump more of those guns out so people arnt buying 5 to find the one that might keep its rounds on a head zone at 25.
Oh and Grant, you sir are ****ing smart. Carry on!
http://spokesdunedin.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/tip-of-the-hat1.gif
I'd love to get a 9L version from grant!
They dont make the L anymore, which is sad. The rear sight notch on the Pro rear sight is supertite like a bulleye style sight, and the front FO is a huge ass .6. So you end up buying the Pro 5" for more money just to swap out the parts you just paid more for. Don't most practical shooters, be it gamers or otherwise like a wide rear?
There is a 9L "pro" version of the CORE. Supposedly there's a better trigger and better reset with the CORE pistols, and of course higher sights to use cowitness with the rds.
theblackknight
11-10-12, 23:40
There is a 9L "pro" version of the CORE. Supposedly there's a better trigger and better reset with the CORE pistols, and of course higher sights to use cowitness with the rds.
You mean like the PC sear that been around for a long while now, or a new, new trigger?
You mean like the PC sear that been around for a long while now, or a new, new trigger?
According to google. It looks like it is a PC sear.
theblackknight
11-10-12, 23:59
Yeah those are what they putin the Pros already. They are ok and certainly good enough to not spend any extra money for how you guys will be shooting them.
Is that across all of the 9mm models or just the CORE series?
All 9mm's (eventually).
C4
Would it be smarter to buy in 40 and get a 9mm conversion barrel? You can't convert the other way right?
They should be switching to 1/10 twist shortly.
C4
finally. took em long enough. why was a 1/18.25 ROT chosen to begin with?
isn't 1/10 ROT pretty much a 9mm standard ROT across the board?
Indeed. The easy way to have gotten it right from the start would have been to look at what HK uses.....
theblackknight
11-11-12, 11:35
I would really like to know if you can tell by serial number which of the new guns will have the fixed twist rate.
sent from mah gun,using my sights
I would really like to know if you can tell by serial number which of the new guns will have the fixed twist rate.
sent from mah gun,using my sights
Twist rate plays a VERY minor roll in a weapons accuracy.
C4
finally. took em long enough. why was a 1/18.25 ROT chosen to begin with?
isn't 1/10 ROT pretty much a 9mm standard ROT across the board?
It is a long and painful reason that you really don't want to know.
C4
It is a long and painful reason that you really don't want to know.
C4
Man, now I'm dying to hear it.
I would really like to know if you can tell by serial number which of the new guns will have the fixed twist rate.
sent from mah gun,using my sights
On a tangent, other than calling S&W is there a way to check via S/N to find out the approximate date or even month of manufacture?
Double tangent, since I bought a 2nd 9mm last week as a spare for a class, this does frost my corn flakes. However my old 9mm has had 2 failure to resets in the past month. If I send it into Smith, does anyone think that Smith will put in the new trigger?
Sorry, didn't mean to derail this thread, but didn't think this warranted its own thread.
On a tangent, other than calling S&W is there a way to check via S/N to find out the approximate date or even month of manufacture?
Double tangent, since I bought a 2nd 9mm last week as a spare for a class, this does frost my corn flakes. However my old 9mm has had 2 failure to resets in the past month. If I send it into Smith, does anyone think that Smith will put in the new trigger?
If your M&P is shooting 6-8" groups at 25yds, the twist rate change will not save you (FYI).
No them installing the new componets (slide catch, sear, trigger bar).
C4
All 9mm's (eventually).
C4
Good to know. At any rate it gives me an excuse to order another FS 9 or one of the CORE guns from you when they start shipping.
Drifting Fate
11-13-12, 01:33
We ordered a bunch of these guns and will offer them up with Trijicon RMR (package deals).
C4
Now, this is good news.
As much as I'm a "front sight, press" guy, the dot sight is the wave of the future and the Trigi seems to be the strongest/most reliable around at this time.
On a tangent, other than calling S&W is there a way to check via S/N to find out the approximate date or even month of manufacture?
Double tangent, since I bought a 2nd 9mm last week as a spare for a class, this does frost my corn flakes. However my old 9mm has had 2 failure to resets in the past month. If I send it into Smith, does anyone think that Smith will put in the new trigger?
Sorry, didn't mean to derail this thread, but didn't think this warranted its own thread.
HES, if you have the original box, the date code is printed on the label stuck to it.
The fist digit is the last number of the year, the next three digits is the day of the year. So for example, 0300 would be 2010 day 300.
Man, now I'm dying to hear it.
I recall it had something to do with barrel longevity with barrel life possibly improved by the slower twist rate, but I'm sure there's more to it.
When are these hitting dealers?
Airborne Infantryman
12-22-12, 16:31
When are these hitting dealers?
They already have. I have the 5" version with an RMR on it. Haven't gotten a chance to shoot it yet. :(
Ok, thanks. Not a big M&P guy so a couple quick questions. I am guessing that there are different inserts that come with the weapon to accommodate the various patterns for the different listed optics? Might be a good way to get into an optic ready pistol at a good price. Does it seem that the retail prices are pretty consistent with the listed MSRP?
Plus, this is NOT a competition model. They might call it that, but no actual open class shooter would want to run a slide mounted optic. How many open guns do you see with normal sights on it?
(waiting on someone to post Julie's "open" MP so I can laugh.)
^^^Classic. :D
S&W is playing into the tactidouche market. Ie the guy that has no real understanding of how to press a trigger but absolutely must have serrations on his serrations and optics on his optics. Dawg.
They're going where the market is, not necessarily where the market should go.
I think S&W is doing what most other manufacturers will be doing in the near future. It's a step in the right direction IMO. But they definitely named it poorly, and could arguably be making other changes to the M&P first.
I'd much rather a new firearm owner buy this over a Nickel plated Desert Eagle. At least with the CORE, if they get serious down the road, they will be pleasantly surprised to find out how great an RMR can be.
I'm still trying to figure out why you need serrations at all with a big ass RMR on the pistol....
I wouldn't be so quick to say that.
I tried them years ago, and I know more people than not that have problems with theirs.
They are much slower on your draw to first shot, and for a CCW... draw to first (aimed) shot is probably the most important skill to have, and time to worry about.
The Triji RMR in particular has come a long way in the past few years, and they are only getting more durable. It's not the Doctor from years back, that's for certain.
As far as slower shots and all that, it's just a learning curve. The advantages just can't be achieved with iron sighted only pistols (such as negating a short sight radius).
finally. took em long enough. why was a 1/18.25 ROT chosen to begin with?
isn't 1/10 ROT pretty much a 9mm standard ROT across the board?
It's definitely not some random number. That's the Smith and Wesson revolver twist rate. It can't be a coincidence.
Do any other 9mm's have such a slow twist rate, or is this pretty unique to S&W?
Airborne Infantryman
12-22-12, 21:47
Ok, thanks. Not a big M&P guy so a couple quick questions. I am guessing that there are different inserts that come with the weapon to accommodate the various patterns for the different listed optics? Might be a good way to get into an optic ready pistol at a good price. Does it seem that the retail prices are pretty consistent with the listed MSRP?
Surf,
Refer to my thread here for indepth pics and such-
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=117736
I paid $669 for mine, while not exactly getting raped, its still more than I should have paid, however, I've been following this pistol since it was announced, and I'm an avid fan on the RMR concept, so I bought one.
The RMR sits just a tad bit higher than a full-custom install, however, you're also not paying for an M&P AND an RMR install, suppressor sights, etc.
I just bought a Storm Lake threaded barrel for my M&P CORE, and its out getting Cerakoted at the moment (the stainless steel was too "bling-bling" for me), and I should be able to get out and shoot the factory barrel compared to the Storm Lake threaded barrel soon. Can't wait to put my Silencerco Osprey on this thing. :D
drummerdude1188
12-24-12, 02:04
I paid 649 for my 5" (before taxes) Got it a couple of weeks ago, haven't shot it yet. Im interested to see how the RMR's point of aim holds up since the optic is not fitted to the slide, just attached with the adapter plates.
blueorison
02-13-13, 04:38
^^^Classic. :D
I think S&W is doing what most other manufacturers will be doing in the near future. It's a step in the right direction IMO. But they definitely named it poorly, and could arguably be making other changes to the M&P first.
I'd much rather a new firearm owner buy this over a Nickel plated Desert Eagle. At least with the CORE, if they get serious down the road, they will be pleasantly surprised to find out how great an RMR can be.
I'm still trying to figure out why you need serrations at all with a big ass RMR on the pistol....
The Triji RMR in particular has come a long way in the past few years, and they are only getting more durable. It's not the Doctor from years back, that's for certain.
As far as slower shots and all that, it's just a learning curve. The advantages just can't be achieved with iron sighted only pistols (such as negating a short sight radius).
It's definitely not some random number. That's the Smith and Wesson revolver twist rate. It can't be a coincidence.
Do any other 9mm's have such a slow twist rate, or is this pretty unique to S&W?
Many NEW Open shooters WILL shoot the M&P CORE in 3GN, but probably not in USPSA. Though, there will be some. They'll shoot it to save themselves money invested in a more directed Open gun. And yes, many of them are what I call an unkind name that I won't mention on this forum. Which are basically mall ninjas that take classes and can actually hit a target at 7 yards with their "instructor-named" pistol that cost $2000. They think they're really awesome at shooting, and come to competition with the wrong mindset; not the humble, learning kind that USPSA will teach you to have. Usually, they are DQ'd for breaking the 180, because they have 0 of the situational awareness that they thought they learned form their $1200 tactical classes.
Anyway, that's off-topic.
I have seen Master level shooters use slide-mounted MRDs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcR2armhilo
He mentions the twist rate change.
FYI I shoot any handgun you hand me. I do not own an M&P. I have shot many. I shoot various platforms in competition, to crosstrain.
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