View Full Version : Do you like your Stag 5.56?
I have come learn that MANY of the people on this site only think that high end AR's and M4's are worthy of owning. On that note I just want to ask if anyone is happy with their Stag models? I have one and just want to know the general feeling you may have now that you own one. I also have a Spikes but we will leave that for another discussion.
Andrew Jackson
11-09-12, 17:26
Stag is teh suckz!!!!!!
Errr sorry. Don't own one, can't tell you.
Personally I only stick to the high end stuff but that because what they offer is what I want. For instance, LMT. I cannot believe how slick their lowers are. From the safety, to the trigger pull they are just amazingly smooth. I am obsessed with the SOPMOD stock. BCM also provides damn near exactly what I am looking for every time. Same with Spikes (haters gonna hate though).
I've had a Stag 2T for a few years, several thousand rounds. I gave it to my son and he's put several thousand more through it. It's been a reliable rifle that has met all of my expectations.
Suwannee Tim
11-09-12, 19:26
......LMT. I cannot believe how slick their lowers are. From the safety, to the trigger pull they are just amazingly smooth........
I bought a Defender 2000 and forgot to specify the two stage trigger. It came with the standard military style trigger which was to me, hideous. I purchased an LMT two stage trigger which trigger slaps. I ain't that impressed with either version of the LMT trigger.
I bought five Stag lowers, shot each 1k or so rounds, no problems. One is now designated for 5.45mm.
Mine's a Stag too. Several thousand rounds with no problems to speak of.
Had one years ago that served me very well, this even before I knew about practical upgrades and proper staking. While I would probably own one again, considering the reports of chamber issues and sometimes inadequate staking I'd be content to say that I may have been a bit lucky and would certainly give the new one a thorough check-up at the very least.
The staking isnt great on mine. But what Chamber problems are you hearing about?
lethal dose
11-10-12, 05:50
Regular stag models lack a lot in areas other "higher tier" ARs don't. The chambers were known to be tight in the stags safetyhit was referring to. There's a good chance your stag will work well, but for the money, there are better options.
What about the quality of just the lower? Aren't the lowers made by CMT same as colt and a few other higher end models?
I had a model 1 that was issued to me by my previous dept. It was an OK rifle but I was spoiled by the Colt I carried at the dept before that. IMO the Stag is a fine weapon for plinking or casual range use but is not suited for serious use. The staking on the carrier key was not up to par. There was no castle nut staking and the materials used are not up to par with Colt, BCM DD, etc. I actually had the gas key fly off and fell into the lower receiver during weapons qualification with the Stag My current dept. lets use use of our rifles and gives us a stipend every year to purchase them. Eventhough I had to pay some out of pocket I went with a DD which I have not regretted. It is a far superior weapon compared to Stag IMO. Stag has its place just not in situations where it may be needed to save someone else's life or even my own.
For the price Stags go for around here, $899 and up, IMO you would be better suited to spend the extra $100-$150 and get a Colt 6920
What about the quality of just the lower? Aren't the lowers made by CMT same as colt and a few other higher end models?
That assumes that the companies that CMT makes lowers for all have the same QA standards before they put those lowers into the rifles they sell.
I would think that there were a LOT more Stag owners that moved into a Colt, LMT, DD, BCM than the other way around. That should tell you something.
Fuzzy-Reticle
11-10-12, 08:45
Not the worst rifle ever made but better options out there for the price.
I have had no problems with my Stag. The staking was questionable so I bought a MOACKS tool and restaked it, and just have it for a backup now. If you have any concerns about reliability, just buy a BCM bolt carrier group for it.
FWIW here is my experience. I have bought several stripped Stag / CMT lowers and left hand uppers that were used to assemble carbines. In just the last year I bought two additional Stag / CMT left hand bolt carrier groups/assemblies from Brownells and was pleased to see the bolts were both marked MPI/P or the like(will have to look again to see exactly what the lettering is), as well both were very well staked. In the past I also bought two Model 3L's from the LGS as well as a Stag /CMT model 2 for the lovely wife. Most have been shot very little relatively speaking, two have been through 8-10 K rds respectively. I have yet to have any issues. Now having said that I'll say this, for what they seem to asking price wise for Stags locally, you certainly can get a true proven battle ready carbine for just a few hundred dollars more. I'll also add that the main reason for my first going with Stag is that I am a lefty and simply prefer that big gaping hole(ejection port) as far away from my ugly mug as possible.
My first AR was a Stag Model 2. It ran flawlessly after the first 30 rounds or so. Break it in, Keep it lubed.
I never put more than 200 rounds through it in one shooting session, but it never choked on anything I fed it. (Wolf, Rem UMC, Win WB, PPU M855.)
I'm getting tired of all of this talk of staking. I don't own a Stag but if I did acquire one it would take me about 10 minutes max to attend to all off the staking tht there is on an AR type rifle. Don't let the lack of staking be the main determining factor on a purchase, especially if it's a smoking deal.
I would think that there were a LOT more Stag owners that moved into a Colt, LMT, DD, BCM than the other way around. That should tell you something.
It tells me that they've been on here reading the endless shit talk of anything that isn't a Colt, DD, Noveske, KAC or BCM rifle.
justin_247
11-10-12, 13:22
The issue with Stag is their cost relative to what you're getting. They're about the same quality as S&W, although I would give S&W a slight edge by comparison, and I would take a Stag any day over a DPMS, Bushmaster, Olympic, etc.
With Stag you do have the option of getting the Plus Package, which brings it up to spec. But unless you have that, your Stag is inferior to your Spikes.
When the difference shows up between the Colts. BCM and Daniel defense vs. the lesser quality brands is during extreme use and high round count 10,000 +. Then the difference in the quality of the materials show . The materials used is what makes the difference. When parts break eventually replace them with the good parts. Besides it seems nobody has only 1 AR!!! If the rifle is a great deal buy is and have fun shooting it .
I got an upper from them before BCM came into the game. Out of the box, the barrel nut wasn't tightened to spec and the barrel wobbled slightly left and right (the gas tube prevented it from spinning free) after firing a couple hundred of rounds. This was unacceptable. However, once I got it tightened down, it functioned well without any serious issues for thousands of rounds. I did put a BCM extractor insert/spring upgrade in and ran it with a H-buffer in the lower.
I have since retired that upper to a back-up position, since I use my BCM as the primary (and never looked back). As others have said, there are many other high quality options today out there...
It tells me that they've been on here reading the endless shit talk of anything that isn't a Colt, DD, Noveske, KAC or BCM rifle.
Colt and BCM and Daniel defense are by far the best quality and all others IMO aren't up the their standards in the quality of the components used. Heck, I have a keltec CA16 that I have brought to training classes and it has never choked during use ,though the lesser quality ARs have. The Colt and the Daniel defense and the BCM have what you would call machine gun quality parts to use a simple term, the others have bolt action quality parts.
I'm getting tired of all of this talk of staking. I don't own a Stag but if I did acquire one it would take me about 10 minutes max to attend to all off the staking tht there is on an AR type rifle. Don't let the lack of staking be the main determining factor on a purchase, especially if it's a smoking deal.
I don't want to have to work on a new gun to fix what should have been done properly in the first place.
Not the worst rifle ever made but better options out there for the price.
Give an example please?
From my experience, I would go as far to say that dollar to exact dollar cost, Stag is about the best deal out there.
Granted for a few hundred more you can get a "better" rifle / carbine but for some a few hundred might as well be a few thousand.
And as Merle so eloquently stated proper staking can be achieved in about 10 minutes or a lot less.
I never went as far as the whole rifle, but the two southpaw uppers I have are great shooters (1 piston, 1 DI.)
I believe that anyone who really does some reasearch will steer clear of the Stag.
Doing a quick look, there only seems to be about a $150 difference on average between a Stag of similar description to a Colt 6920 (bbl length, flat-top, collapsible stock, i.e. M4-gery style.) Regardless of whether or not the Colt is $150 'better' or not, I'd pose this perspective: If $150-$300 price difference is a deal-breaker, you might want to consider a .22LR version, or even something like a 10/22. (Which is a really nice rifle for very little money.)
That's not meant to be any sort of 'snobbery,' it's just the reality of truly 'affording' to own and shoot a rifle. Especially with the current price of ammo and where it's already heading in terms of availability, the initial cost of the rifle pales to the amount it will cost to actually shoot it on a regular basis.
I have had no problems with my Stag. The staking was questionable so I bought a MOACKS tool and restaked it, and just have it for a backup now. If you have any concerns about reliability, just buy a BCM bolt carrier group for it.
That isn't going to help it with being overgassed. I have hand experience with two Stags, both VERY overgassed.
I have guy at my work that owns one, he specifically bought Stag because they offer a left handed model. He insisted he was getting too much blowback with his right hand S&W Sport and had to have a left handed model... I tried so hard to convince him otherwise, but we all know some people are just beyond advising.
Mostly the people that buy Stags ;) sort of kidding but mostly not!
Don't listen to these gun snobs. Stag's are very good AR's. Mine shoots straight and cycles any ammo I throw at it. Besides the parent company of Stag (Continental Machine Tool Company) make the parts that are used in most of the so called better AR's.
For the $750 OTD I have in my 2 year old Stag Model 3 I have been happy with it. 2500 rounds thru it so far and it has ate and ejected everything I fed it and it has been accurate as well. The gas keys and castle nut needed additional staking but other than that it's been good to go.
It hasn't got any love lately since I bought a Rainier Arms RUC 14.5" LW but I won't be selling the Stag anytime soon because it will serve me well as a backup rifle.
Besides the parent company of Stag (Continental Machine Tool Company) make the parts that are used in most of the so called better AR's.
I believe this statement to be inaccurate and/or misleading.
I have a Stag 2T, RRA midlength chrome line LW, and a Daniel Defense M4 (one of the first 600). Despite what those on this board report, my 2T seems to be fine after a few shop mods.
What most on here report that seems to be negative toward Stag is based on the typical end user that is going to take a rifle right out of the box and not capable of making any changes. Also it is a money issue. A Stag 2T when I bought mine was 1000 even. A Colt was about 1100. My Stag came with a Sampson quad rail and ARMS rear sight. The Colt was a base M4 with carry handle and plastic handguard. The internals were good though.
What I did to my Stag was; 1. staked the castle nut, 2. replaced the BCG with a BCM unit and moved the factory unit to a backup after properly staking it. 3, index paint all fasteners on the unit. 4. Replace the carbine buffer with an H buffer.
I now have almost as much money in the Stag as I would have had in the Colt to install a quad rail and a rear sight. The difference is I would have had a Colt instead of a Stag. On the one hand, it is a very smooth and accurate rifle. Shoots 55-72 grain very good and I shoot steel case in it with no problems. Ejection is very good and consistent. The DD is no better in fit and finish or smoothness. In fact, the firing pin and bolt I received in my new DD looked like they had been used for testing with corrosive ammo for about 5K rounds and never cleaned. They are still deeply pitted for some reason.
BTW, The RRA is probably my favorite for all the RRA haters.:alcoholic:
All good replies and good advice. Thanks to all above posters. Dom
Don't listen to these gun snobs. Stag's are very good AR's. Mine shoots straight and cycles any ammo I throw at it. Besides the parent company of Stag (Continental Machine Tool Company) make the parts that are used in most of the so called better AR's.
Do you have sources to which parts and for whom? That would help. Of course because a company can produce quality parts for another company (a) it has no bearing on whether or not their own finished product is GTG (b) the parts they make for other "so called better AR's" under a contract end up in their own finished product.
A and B not uncommon scenarios in the gun biz or others for that matter.
I believe this statement to be inaccurate and/or misleading.
Continental Machine & Tool makes lower receivers and parts for Colt, RRA, Noveske, Wilson and S&W.
Continental Machine & Tool makes lower receivers and parts for Colt, RRA, Noveske, Wilson and S&W.
Does that mean Stag is the = of Colt or Noveske say due to that fact?*
* = assuming it's correct, which I don't know.
Continental Machine & Tool makes lower receivers and parts for Colt, RRA, Noveske, Wilson and S&W.
Has no bearing on the quality of the finished product from each of those companies.
Has no bearing on the quality of the finished product from each of those companies.
I disagree, it has a large bearing the the quality of the finished product. You can't make a quality product if you start with inferior parts.
I disagree, it has a large bearing the the quality of the finished product. You can't make a quality product if you start with inferior parts.
So...all rifles are the same quality then?
I have a friend here in Mississippi who is former SWAT but now works for Glock. He has his Stag for sale. I'll have to say that thing is tricked out. Omega rail, Geissele SSA, ACOG, the works. It's a thing of beauty. I asked him why he wanted to sell it. He said he couldn't trust his life to it.
He's the one, along with this board who steered me to LMT. I haven't looked back.
I know there are folks here who own Stags. I know they can get a little sideways when certain details are pointed out to them on some of the obvious shortfalls of Stag.
I can't blame them. If I had made a bad decision, I'd be pissed too.:p
I have a friend here in Mississippi who is former SWAT but now works for Glock. He has his Stag for sale. I'll have to say that thing is tricked out. Omega rail, Geissele SSA, ACOG, the works. It's a thing of beauty. I asked him why he wanted to sell it. He said he couldn't trust his life to it.
He's the one, along with this board who steered me to LMT. I haven't looked back.
I know there are folks here who own Stags. I know they can get a little sideways when certain details are pointed out to them on some of the obvious shortfalls of Stag.
I can't blame them. If I had made a bad decision, I'd be pissed too.:p
I can't trust my life to it means it can't eat a case of ammo in a afternoon without Fu@kin up.
I can't trust my life to it means it can't eat a case of ammo in a afternoon without Fu@kin up.
Roger that.
I disagree, it has a large bearing the the quality of the finished product. You can't make a quality product if you start with inferior parts.
Jmar you need to take a Manufacturing 101 class. Just because a company makes lowers does not mean every company that buys a lower from them get the same product. There is something called tolerances, One company might require the ordered product to be within 1/64 of the specs requested as another company might require tolerances of 2/64th. These numbers are not real specs just examples but I hope you get the point as it is very apparent. What do you think the manufacturing company does with all the parts sent back to them that are out of spec? they scap it or sell it to another company that those parts fit their spec tolerances.
Murphman you are correct. One of the divisions of my company is composed of a fab shop and a full cnc shop. We have made the same part for different companies using varying specs.
I disagree, it has a large bearing the the quality of the finished product. You can't make a quality product if you start with inferior parts.
And you can hand a bad smith a bag the best quality 1911 parts on the planet and he'll hand you back a POS.
Again, that they made some parts for other manufacturers = zero relationship to their final product.
Worst ARs on the market? No. Are there better choices out there for similar or slightly more $$$ used and vetted by those who have forgotten more about the platform in a day than 98% of the other AR users will ever know? Yes.
Deal with it.
Jmar you need to take a Manufacturing 101 class. Just because a company makes lowers does not mean every company that buys a lower from them get the same product. There is something called tolerances, One company might require the ordered product to be within 1/64 of the specs requested as another company might require tolerances of 2/64th. These numbers are not real specs just examples but I hope you get the point as it is very apparent. What do you think the manufacturing company does with all the parts sent back to them that are out of spec? they scap it or sell it to another company that those parts fit their spec tolerances.
A well known company that's made slides and frames for various higher end 1911 producers has never produced a 1911 of the quality of those companies they sell the slides and frames to. Funny how that works. :rolleyes:
I'll be the first one to admit that, when I have the funds, I'll be purchasing/building a higher end AR, probably a DD.
That being said, my first and only AR is a Stag. I've got approximately 2,500 rounds through it, give or take, with no problems. Everything appears to be staked properly but I'm no gunsmith so I decided to snap a few quick pics.
I'd be curious to hear from some of the more experienced members as to whether or not these qualify as "properly staked."
As she sits right now, stock plus a weapon light.
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i291/JoeWalmer/100_1747.jpg
I tried to get some close-ups of the castle nut and BCG. I apologize in advance for pic quality.
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i291/JoeWalmer/100_1742.jpg
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i291/JoeWalmer/100_1743.jpg
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i291/JoeWalmer/100_1744.jpg
Jmar you need to take a Manufacturing 101 class. Just because a company makes lowers does not mean every company that buys a lower from them get the same product. There is something called tolerances, One company might require the ordered product to be within 1/64 of the specs requested as another company might require tolerances of 2/64th. These numbers are not real specs just examples but I hope you get the point as it is very apparent. What do you think the manufacturing company does with all the parts sent back to them that are out of spec? they scap it or sell it to another company that those parts fit their spec tolerances.
First off murphman I'm in the manufacturing business, I know all about tolerances and different specs for different customers. Secondly, you need to learn how to have a discussion without being insulting. All I was trying to say is that Stag AR's are good quality and a good value. If you want to spend $1,400-$2,000 for an AR go ahead, I'll keep spending $800-$900 and spend a the rest on ammo.
A well known company that's made slides and frames for various higher end 1911 producers has never produced a 1911 of the quality of those companies they sell the slides and frames to. Funny how that works. :rolleyes:
Thanks for your wisdom, Will.
Thanks for your wisdom, Will.
It aint wisdom per se, but it is true. ;)
I really like my STAG 2 Upper.
Wasn't sure about them at first, but was pleasantly surprised with the quality.
I have owned Colt, DPMS & RRA rifles.
FYI: This is a "proper" staked key:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/staking/Colt2.jpg
lethal dose
11-10-12, 21:10
I disagree, it has a large bearing the the quality of the finished product. You can't make a quality product if you start with inferior parts.
LD personal attacks will not be tolerated. Disagree if you want but one more outburst like that will not be tolerated.
Voodoochild
If you have been doing your research, you will NOT buy a Stag.
First off murphman I'm in the manufacturing business, I know all about tolerances and different specs for different customers. Secondly, you need to learn how to have a discussion without being insulting. All I was trying to say is that Stag AR's are good quality and a good value. If you want to spend $1,400-$2,000 for an AR go ahead, I'll keep spending $800-$900 and spend a the rest on ammo.
I apologize if it came off the wrong way, maybe it I would have left the first part out. But as you can see just because someone like CMT makes receivers for various companies does not mean they are all the same or within the same spec perameters.
As far is if Stag is a bad rifle I have no idea, I know it is hard to find at this point in time but i Purchased a DDM4v1 for 1150 no tax shipped this time last year. I would say the the sum of the quality parts inspected and installed correctly exceed the 250-300$ difference of a stag. The way I see it if you decided to make the upgrades to bring a stag up to the standard of a DD it would surpass that 250-350$
A well known company that's made slides and frames for various higher end 1911 producers has never produced a 1911 of the quality of those companies they sell the slides and frames to. Funny how that works. :rolleyes:
I feel like this 50/50 lol. Only reason is because in the "custom" 1911 world all parts are over sized and hand fitted to my knowledge. If you dont have the people that are as good as the customers of your 1911 parts at fitting then i can see the disconnect between a customer of you parts making a better 1911 than the manufacturer of the part.
Unlike AR receivers they should be plug and play if in spec correct?
A well known company that's made slides and frames for various higher end 1911 producers has never produced a 1911 of the quality of those companies they sell the slides and frames to. Funny how that works. :rolleyes:
Is this Taurus?
You are ignorant. Stag uses inferior metals in many of their parts. Stripped upper or stripped lower? Sure, by a stag if you like the deer on the side.
jmar93, do not go down this path of tit for tat come backs. Disagree if you want but do not start going down that rabbit hole of come back insults.
Voodoochild
Did I accidentally get on ARFCOM? Just saying:confused:
I have a Stag I bought when they first came out. At the time it was probably $400 or $500 less than a 6920. Improper staking, the ARMS sight doesn't sit flat on the rail, non-spec steel, no park under the front sight base, etc. The taken down pin has to be hammered out and the safety does not move as smoothly as on my LMT.
However, it's never given me any issues. I have put around 500 rounds through it at a time as fast as I could pull the trigger with no problems. It's good enough for 90% to 95% of the shooting people with ARs do but the fit, finish, and materials are not as good as my LMT.
[QUOTE=JB2000;1438274]I have a Stag I bought when they first came out. At the time it was probably $400 or $500 less than a 6920. Improper staking, the ARMS sight doesn't sit flat on the rail, non-spec steel, no park under the front sight base, etc. The taken down pin has to be hammered out and the safety does not move as smoothly as on my LMT.
However, it's never given me any issues.
Hell, if those problems were on my carbine they would all be 'issues'
lethal dose
11-10-12, 22:25
Thanks for clearing that up for me lethal dose, you can't except an ignorant hick like me to know anything. I can only dream of being a smart POS like you.
You're being close minded and passing misleading info around.
I have a Stag model 1 with the Plus Package, mine has a A2 buttstock. I paid $845 for it. I love it. I've fired about 1000 rounds or so of different ammo through it and the only issue was with that Tula ammo (if I'm spelling that right).
I put a Aimpoint PRO on it with a A2 rear sight that's always up. I put a UTG Slim Drop In Quad Rail with a Troy from handle grip and a trigger guard that drops down a little to allow more room for winter gloves. I have a half dozen USGI 30 rd. magazines I just put yellow anti tilt followers in. I can't think of the name of hand. They work great.
All in all, I'm completely happy with my Stag and all the accessories I've put on it. I'd buy another one without hesitation.
NYH1. :D
You're being close minded and passing misleading info around.
Are you sure you are not the close minded one in this discussion, do you have anything that supports your claim that Stag uses inferior metals? I have not been able to find any evidence supporting that claim. Perhaps you are passing around misleading info.
ClearedHot
11-11-12, 01:00
Are you sure you are not the close minded one in this discussion, do you have anything that supports your claim that Stag uses inferior metals? I have not been able to find any evidence supporting that claim. Perhaps you are passing around misleading info.
Why choose Stag when you have quality milspec alternatives for around the same price?
Are you sure you are not the close minded one in this discussion, do you have anything that supports your claim that Stag uses inferior metals? I have not been able to find any evidence supporting that claim. Perhaps you are passing around misleading info.
My Stag 2T uses 4140 barrel steel and current models still do. That would probably be considered by most people to be inferior to the 4150 that upper tier rifles use. That rifle costs $1130. For that kind of money, a person can do a lot better in buying a rifle.
i don't own anything stag, but it seems like any complaint made about stag is addressed by the plus package, including cmv barrel steel, and carpenter 158. even when a company does improve on shortcomings people aren't receptive to them. i was looking around a while back and was tempted to buy one of those at $830 (with leo discount.) i don't plan on buying one any time soon, but i'm not going to say "it's still bad because it's name is not X, ok?" glock would be nowhere if people had kept harping on the slides flying down range while shooting, or being able to just snatch the slide right off. i like supporting companies that seem a little ambitious, and make an effort to improve themselves. we wouldn't have so much to choose from in every day life if we only bought from the first companies that got something right.
lethal dose
11-11-12, 05:52
The plus package is a step in the right direction. What's the cost of one, though?
Stag is not as bad as DPMS, Bushmaster, Olympic Arms, etc but they are way over priced. Sure you can get a Stag "Plus" package for like $999 but that's the price of Colt or BCM which is way more proven and all around trustworthy.
**** Stag.
I feel like this 50/50 lol. Only reason is because in the "custom" 1911 world all parts are over sized and hand fitted to my knowledge. If you dont have the people that are as good as the customers of your 1911 parts at fitting then i can see the disconnect between a customer of you parts making a better 1911 than the manufacturer of the part.
Unlike AR receivers they should be plug and play if in spec correct?
It was just an analogy to his comments vs specific to how a custom 1911 gets built vs ARs.
Starting with quality parts obviously a plus, but it's an over simplification then make the leap their end product is the equal of other brands per se.
That was my only point to the comment there. :cool:
The plus package is a step in the right direction. What's the cost of one, though?
$75 on a complete upper or $100 on a complete carbine. If you buy a complete carbine with a A2 buttstock I think it's $75 because you get a full length buffer setup with the A2 stock, or something like that.
Here are the spec's on my Stag model 1 with the Plus Package. I went with the A2 buttstock. Stag's model 1 with the Plus Package is on "the chart".
Bolt & Bolt Carrier
Bolt Material- Carpenter 158, shot peened (fixture method).
HPT bolt (100%) HPT bolt round M197 or SAAMI equivalent.
MPI bolt (100%), MPI bolt rejection- cracks & inclusions.
Spring Extractor 5.
Extractor Spring Buffer- black.
Shrouded Full Circle M16 Carrier, side staked carrier key.
Barrel & Upper Receiver
Barrel Steel- 4150.
HPT barrel (100%).
HPT barrel round- SAAMI equivalent to M197.
MPI barrel (100%).
MPI barrel rejection- cracks & inclusions.
Chamber- 5.56.
1 in 7 twist rate, chrome lining barrel & chamber.
Barrel Feedramps- M4 extended.
Upper Feedramps- before anodizing.
FSB- "F", FSB Pins- taper pins, Finish Under FSB- yes.
Heat Shields- double.
Lower
R.E. Diameter- 1.14", R.E.
Material- 7000 series.
Castle Nut- staking,
Buffer- H (3.6 oz)
Mr.Anderson
11-11-12, 11:00
I bought my Stag Mod. 1 shortly after Barry was "elected".
Recall, guns and ammo were going through the roof. I DO remember that day looking at a Colt and it was somewhere around $1,600(ish).
There was also a USED BM for $800ish.
This was my first AR purchase. Previously, all I ever owned were shot guns cheap pistols and SKS's. lol
But after getting familiar with the AR line of weapons in the Army I HAD to have one as my main defense weapon.
Also, for the record, I'm married with four kids. At that time, I had just went on unemployment and we were really feeling the pinch.
So, the Stag was $950ish vs the Colt @ $1,600ish. Obviously, strictly base on funding alone, I had to choose the Stag. Even IF I had KNOWN that the Colt WAS a better weapon, it would not have mattered.
It does seem that this issue is beat to death here on M4C about Stags (etc) being "as good" as the Tier 1 brands.
This is illogical. And wishful thinking. It's OK to say "I made a mistake" whether it was misinformed or simply out of ignorance. Doesn't matter. Admit it, and move on.
I have :)
To answer the question from the OP
YES.
I HAVE been happy with my Stag. I've probably only shot 500ish rnds through it of which app. 200 were WOLF steel cased with no issues ever.
I've done some things cosmetically to it but nothing operational.
If I had to "bug out" some where, do I think it'd get me there if I had to dump a few hundred rounds out of it? YES.
If I was snatched off the street with it and was told I'm going to the sand box and I've gotta take the Stag - I'd ask if I could get something that has a lot more (obviously, well deserved) reputation.
LOL
In fact... me and my wife got into a slightly heated discussion about this last night driving home from Wal-Mart after drooling over the Colt LE6920.
I proceeded to explain to here (using what all I've learned/read here on M4C) the differences between these items. She counters with logic based on a limited budget and many things to yet still acquire to feel comfortably prepared should TSHTF/WROL scenarios ever play out, that we would be better to have TWO less than Tier1's, etc.
Even still, I am constantly going back and forth w/in myself on this.
Do I NEED the best of the best because I'm one of those guys going to classes and doing a lot of shooting? No. In truth my Stag is an insurance policy. A guarantor. Not my main method of bringing devastation and death to OPFOR's.
However, at this point in time, things being priced yet still the way they are, I CANNOT justify skimping on a better built weapon to save $100-$200.
Obviously, if you can't afford the extra and MUST have something NOW - as was MY case almost 4 yrs ago, then you do what you gotta do and I find it hard to imagine that anyone would actually begrudge you for THAT.
I think what annoys some people here is when some claim that THEIR Stag/Oly, etc etc is THE SAME as the TOL's. And I understand this.
It actually irks me too lol.
My $.02
http://i960.photobucket.com/albums/ae82/Mr_Anderson_Shooting/Stag%20Arms%20Mod%202%20Early%20Fall%202008/DSCN0201.jpg
It was just an analogy to his comments vs specific to how a custom 1911 gets built vs ARs.
Starting with quality parts obviously a plus, but it's an over simplification then make the leap their end product is the equal of other brands per se.
That was my only point to the comment there. :cool:
Ahh gotcha, I agree
I like my Stag 2TL. There are a lot of people on this site that are... well... I'll just keep my mouth shut.
The plus package is a step in the right direction. What's the cost of one, though?
Stag is not as bad as DPMS, Bushmaster, Olympic Arms, etc but they are way over priced. Sure you can get a Stag "Plus" package for like $999 but that's the price of Colt or BCM which is way more proven and all around trustworthy.
**** Stag.
like mentioned, the one i saw was $830 with a leo discount, and $930 without. on paper it's the same as something like a colt that's around $1050. i'm not pushing anyone to buy one (i couldn't in good conscience since i don't own one) but how much less should it be? you can't do as much milspec as possible on it and still charge the same as an olympic, or dpms. i don't know that the plus package would hold up as well as a colt (but i haven't seen anything empirical to indicate otherwise.)
i just don't understand why when a company makes the effort to meet the market's demands they are still ostracized. if, and that's a big if, they have come up to higher end quality with their plus package, and newer upgrades on the standard rifle, at what point would it be accepted?
this site by far has the most knowledgeable and experienced guys with this type of firearm, but i think when new guys look for a quick answer, they don't even realize why the shouldn't buy something, other than it doesn't have one of a few names stamped on it. that's not a reference to stag, just in general. glock had the rough start i mentioned, and had a major uphill battle, and now they have a pistol that's in the very small group with an nsn number.
to summarize, i'm not saying stag has moved into a group with the known quality pieces, but they have made strides to move themselves up from being a turd, and i commend them for that. i also think even if they did make a rifle identical to a colt in ever respect, it would still be labeled as a turd.
once again, i don't have anything stag, so figured i would play devil's advocate based on my limited personal observations with stag.
I bought my Stag Mod. 1 shortly after Barry was "elected".
Recall, guns and ammo were going through the roof. I DO remember that day looking at a Colt and it was somewhere around $1,600(ish).
There was also a USED BM for $800ish.
<snip>
Also, for the record, I'm married with four kids. At that time, I had just went on unemployment and we were really feeling the pinch.
So, the Stag was $950ish vs the Colt @ $1,600ish. Obviously, strictly base on funding alone, I had to choose the Stag. Even IF I had KNOWN that the Colt WAS a better weapon, it would not have mattered.
<snip>
If I was snatched off the street with it and was told I'm going to the sand box and I've gotta take the Stag - I'd ask if I could get something that has a lot more (obviously, well deserved) reputation.
LOL
In fact... me and my wife got into a slightly heated discussion about this last night driving home from Wal-Mart after drooling over the Colt LE6920.
<snip>
However, at this point in time, things being priced yet still the way they are, I CANNOT justify skimping on a better built weapon to save $100-$200.That's very similar to my story, except mine started around 2007. I could buy two Stags for about the same price as one Colt. My Stags had poorly staked gas keys, which I fixed with a pocket MOAC. Put several thousand rounds through each without any glitches.
Sadly, my two Stags were stolen, along with the ones I built. By that time, Colt prices were fluctuating between $900 - $1100. So I got a Colt and built another. There's a "feel" to the Colt that just feels more solid. At today's prices, IMHO, it's worth the slightly more coin.
Only Stag product I have is a lower which I bought stripped.
No real complaints on that part.
All the major components on my AR are BCM though...
Can the older model Stag's be brought up to par? With a Tier one?
Mr.Anderson
11-11-12, 12:48
That's very similar to my story, except mine started around 2007. I could buy two Stags for about the same price as one Colt. My Stags had poorly staked gas keys, which I fixed with a pocket MOAC. Put several thousand rounds through each without any glitches.
Sadly, my two Stags were stolen, along with the ones I built. By that time, Colt prices were fluctuating between $900 - $1100. So I got a Colt and built another. There's a "feel" to the Colt that just feels more solid. At today's prices, IMHO, it's worth the slightly more coin.
I have the same issue with the Safety Selector that someone else mentioned. It' just not "crisp". There is play in it.
I too have the "chiseled" look gas key staking. And very minor staking on the castle nut.
I looked at the chart and IIRC the only thing that was different on paper was the barrel. I'm understand the Stag (Model 1 anyways) have 4140 barrels. I was just looking for the chart and google says it's not available? :confused:
We're sorry.
The publishing options given are not valid. Please check the options and try again.
Find out more at the Google Docs Help Center.
*ETA*
Feed ramps. I'm reading they only had rifle feed ramps. Odd... I thought my receiver HAD M4 feed ramps.
I'll check on this ASAP.
*ETA*
Rifle feed ramps.
Can the older model Stag's be brought up to par? With a Tier one?If you want total par with Tier one, no, unless you want to spend more money than it's worth.
For example, older Stags like the ones I had used 4140 steel in their barrels. I have no concerns about that because my understanding is that M1 Garrands used the same steel. However, it's a difference that would require costly replacement.
There are other items, which may or may not be important to some people. But to do it all wouldn't be a cost effective.
Can the older model Stag's be brought up to par? With a Tier one?
You'd probably be better off selling it as-is on AR15.com and buying a complete Colt, BCM, DD, etc.
like mentioned, the one i saw was $830 with a leo discount, and $930 without. on paper it's the same as something like a colt that's around $1050.
LEO discount that most of us do not have. Also, just because it looks the same on paper.... that means nothing... I'm more concerned about consistency and the small details like the gas port size, etc.
You can put together a PSA for $650 and I'd take it over a Stag "Plus" any day of the week. At least PSA is to spec and you do not have to purchase any extra package BS to meet the minimum standard. What a bunch of hogwash.
New post about Bringing up a T2 to T1.
People rarely put enough lead down range to see the gun come anywhere near failing, so this cheaper alternative would work for them. Of course there are those who intend run a gun a lot or depend their life to that weapon, but they can choose other manufacturers with better research. I would say they are definitely better quality than a RRA or a CMMG. CMMG's seem to like having their gas keys come loose. Pocket MOACKS ftw!
Dollylamma
11-11-12, 19:15
I own a Stag Model 1. I have ran PMC and Silver Bear through it, not one hiccup. The most rounds in one shooting session is ~400 and the BCG is always well lubed. I still shoot it but mostly at family and friend gatherings. I bought it in 08 due to Barry getting elected. Side note, the BCG is not properly staked. Now I that I have discovered this site, I bought a BCM mid-length as to which I use in all classes while the Stag sits in the trunk just in case the BCM takes a dive.
I like my Stag 2TL. There are a lot of people on this site that are...
Extremely knowledgeable about the AR platform? Yup.
jonconsiglio
11-11-12, 20:03
I like my Stag 2TL. There are a lot of people on this site that are... well... I'll just keep my mouth shut.
That tells us a lot. For all we know anything will work for you because you shoot 100 rounds a month from the bench at an indoor range.
Instead of defending your emotional attachments with insults, how about some experience?
How many carbine classes have you attended?
How many thousands of rounds have you fired through your rifle?
When you pushed it extremely hard through a 3 to 7 day course, did you have any failures?
When there are people that defend their lives and the lives of others with their firearms, you owe the members here that much.
I would absolutely hate to see someone new to ARs buy a hobby grade rifle after reading a post from a member that only shoots a couple mags a month through his recently cleaned and properly lubed Stag that hasn't even seen a bit of dirt.
To take it a step farther, should people really even comment on reliability that aren't pushing their rifles hard? Because really, even the lowest DPMS should run reliably on a low round count hobby shooter's firing schedule.
You come here and insult the members of this site, some of whom have defended the very freedoms you so enjoy on a daily basis and others who likely patrol the streets of a city near you, and you can't even give a list of personal experiences with your rifle that tells us all how reliable it really is?
Maybe it's time members here start taking this site back and putting an end to any nonsense by those that apparently think that many members here are.......well, I'll just keep my mouth shut.
Maybe some should decide to keep their mouths shut BEFORE they post.
Battlepack
11-11-12, 20:46
I'm always hesitant to post here given the philosophy of this site and the knowledgeable membership that actually uses the AR platform for a living. My ARs do not necessarily have to be "serious fighting tools" in my estimation. I save that moniker for my foolish addiction to high-end 1911s.:D
Having said that, I have been very satisfied with my Stag upper that is approximately six years old. It rests on a Stag lower built with a Stag LPK. I did MOACKS the carrier for added security. It has seen several training classes and probably has about 5K rounds thru it with a single malfunction attributed to a popped primer. It does not have M4 ramps, and sometimes in the past it was fed by black follower USGI mags. Just a sample of one I realize, but a satisfied customer nonetheless given my requirements.
yossarian42
11-11-12, 22:18
To take it a step farther, should people really even comment on reliability that aren't pushing their rifles hard? Because really, even the lowest DPMS should run reliably on a low round count hobby shooter's firing schedule.
This is pretty much why I eventually came around to buying a bcm upper, which should be here Monday afternoon. My stag has been fine but not without its issues that I would attribute to quality control. Albeit stag took care of me promptly and courteously when I needed them to so that's good. I'm probably never going to push my rifle to the limits, but that doesn't mean I don't want one that could be pushed to the limits
My original upper had issues with sighting in. The rear sight had to be way to the right to get on paper. I sent it to them and they replaced the barrel. Staking on the gas key was pretty good.
Recently I sent my upper to them to have the railed gas block replaced with an f marked fsb. They charged me for the fsb but when I got it back I realized they sent me a brand new complete upper instead of just replacing that one part. My upper had about 2000 rounds through it and they just replaced it, rail and all, for no reason. (Unless the ****ed mine up and had to) The new bcg was staked poorly. I fixed it with a self loading center punch.
Just brought it to the range and it was zeroed at 50 yards out of the box. I have been happy with my stag tbh. But that doesn't stop me from wanting better. So now I have two brand new uppers. A go to, and a good backup/extra for my dad or wife to shoot.
Sent from my iPhone using Fapatalk
If you don't have something of substance to add, keep the silly comments to yourself.
I like my Stag 2TL. There are a lot of people on this site that are... well... I'll just keep my mouth shut.
You'd probably be better off selling it as-is on AR15.com and buying a complete Colt, BCM, DD, etc.
LEO discount that most of us do not have. Also, just because it looks the same on paper.... that means nothing... I'm more concerned about consistency and the small details like the gas port size, etc.
You can put together a PSA for $650 and I'd take it over a Stag "Plus" any day of the week. At least PSA is to spec and you do not have to purchase any extra package BS to meet the minimum standard. What a bunch of hogwash.
i was careful about my wording, and mentioning "on paper" specifically, because that's all it is until i know otherwise. i'm sure they targeted tos type segment initially, but at least now they're making an effort to come up to enthusiasts. i haven't heard anything about the the plus package being overgassed (i've seen one person say they measured the same as a colt) or anything out of spec in the few reviews i've seen. i don't own anything psa, but i've seen threads on here about parts out of spec, and people saying the lpk is lower quality etc. at what point would you not say "**** stag" or not call it hogwash?
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i291/JoeWalmer/100_1744.jpg
Staking looks pretty shallow. And I doubt those are the proper fasteners.
First off murphman I'm in the manufacturing business, I know all about tolerances and different specs for different customers. Secondly, you need to learn how to have a discussion without being insulting. All I was trying to say is that Stag AR's are good quality and a good value. If you want to spend $1,400-$2,000 for an AR go ahead, I'll keep spending $800-$900 and spend a the rest on ammo.
:suicide2: I don't understand why that generic statement has any bearing on the topic at hand. I could be in the manufacturing business too, but if my employer manufacturers dildos...well I really have no thing to add to this topic.
So for $800-900 you think Stag is the best value? Not a used 6920 (or one on sale). Not PSA? At $900 you'd really choose Stag? I'm confused
I don't want to have to work on a new gun to fix what should have been done properly in the first place.
Me either, that's why I sold my Glock 19
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.