View Full Version : bolt question, looking for truth behind a rumor.
sinlessorrow
11-10-12, 22:01
So I have heard that MARSOC has been using the LWRC ACB(advanced combat bolt) on their CQBR's. Is there any truth to this?
So I have heard that MARSOC has been using the LWRC ACB(advanced combat bolt) on their CQBR's. Is there any truth to this?
Someone on arfcom posted that it was being used on the MK18s, but I have no idea how legit that information is.
As everyone is aware there is a large difference between individual purchase, and a PO from the GOV.
I have a hard time taking anything that came from bARFcom seriously.
ClearedHot
11-11-12, 01:03
LWRC crap being issued? I certainly hope that's just a rumor.
sinlessorrow
11-11-12, 12:13
LWRC crap being issued? I certainly hope that's just a rumor.
I was thinkin it sounded odd, as i LWRC has found a secre way to make a bol stonger within the confines of the AR-15 system.
BufordTJustice
11-11-12, 13:37
Yeah, the only way that I could think of to make an AR15 bolt stronger on the cheap would be to make it larger in every dimension but keep the boltface the same dimension....and maybe shrink the cam-pin hole. Like an AR10 bolt with the boltface sized to receive a 5.56 casehead.
This would require new barrel extensions, new carriers, and maybe even new magazine feed lip geometry. But it could be done with Carpenter 158 A.
I have a hard time taking anything that came from bARFcom seriously.
I am very cautious with anything I read on that particular site as well.
sinlessorrow
11-11-12, 15:25
I am very cautious with anything I read on that particular site as well.
That is a good point, it was an old thread that on my phone was linked to another website, but apparently hes talking about it on a current thread and its the same person to.
I have not seen any testin showing better bolts in the current design, only testing I know of is whats reported about the BCG PiP, but there is only so much you can do with a bolt and the current barrel extension.
Andrew Jackson
11-11-12, 17:40
LWRC crap being issued? I certainly hope that's just a rumor.
Lwrc is crap? I always heard they were awesome. Ive never been interested in their products but intereting...first time I have ever heard hate on them...
DreadPirateMoyer
11-11-12, 17:51
Lwrc is crap? I always heard they were awesome. Ive never been interested in their products but intereting...first time I have ever heard hate on them...
Some people on this forum have it out for LWRC, some for legitimate reasons (bad business practices from old owner), some not (DI/Colt fanboyism). Overall, don't expect many unbiased opinions on the company here on M4C.
That said, the ACB2 that LWRC has out is the best bolt I've used. It's definitely not crap, though maybe some of the tier-1 operators out there who actually put equipment through the grinder can shed some light.
Finally, I don't know if the bolt is actually being issued or not. If there's no source and it was posted on TOS, take it with many grains of salt.
BufordTJustice
11-11-12, 19:08
Some people on this forum have it out for LWRC, some for legitimate reasons (bad business practices from old owner), some not (DI/Colt fanboyism). Overall, don't expect many unbiased opinions on the company here on M4C.
That said, the ACB2 that LWRC has out is the best bolt I've used. It's definitely not crap, though maybe some of the tier-1 operators out there who actually put equipment through the grinder can shed some light.
Finally, I don't know if the bolt is actually being issued or not. If there's no source and it was posted on TOS, take it with many grains of salt.
Without saying that LWRC is shit, why should I assume that they comply with the TDP (as does DD, LMT, BCM, and Colt) when they have provided no evidence of being a top-tier manufacturer. I may not have the disdain for them that Markm has, but I don't have to believe jack shit until they prove they are top-tier. As soon as they prove they are top tier via providing all of their certifications for the TDP, I'll STFU.
Let's put this in perspective.
I agree that a Ruger is money better spent than an LWRC. Just as rugged for a LOT less money (you can grab most of an ACOG or an aimpoint w/ mount for the difference between them).
BufordTJustice
11-11-12, 19:19
And while we're on the subject, the LWRC Advanced Combat Bolt introduced NO NEW FEATURES that had not already been R&D'd and introduced on other previous bolt designs.
It is clearly an amalgamation of the LMT Enhanced bolt assembly with the lobster-tail extractor, dual-spring setup, and the coating on the outside of the bolt. It also borrows from the KAC SR15 E3 bolt as well with the fully supported face (which the LMT also has) and the alteration of the geometry around the extractor cut.
The LMT bolt was being used for nearly half a decade before the ACB ever hit the market. The KAC bolt longer than that.
So before anybody starts speaking about the merits of the ACB, let's be honest and admit that any merits it may have were simply unpatented advancements made by other designers/companies.
Also, take a look at this lovely little whitepaper from LWRC that states that normal bolts are made from 8620 steel. That's sounds really nice....except the CARRIER is made from 8620. The std mil spec bolt is made from Carpenter 158 A. Nice try, LWRC. Nice try.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/686/acb1.png/sr=1
sinlessorrow
11-11-12, 19:26
Some people on this forum have it out for LWRC, some for legitimate reasons (bad business practices from old owner), some not (DI/Colt fanboyism). Overall, don't expect many unbiased opinions on the company here on M4C.
That said, the ACB2 that LWRC has out is the best bolt I've used. It's definitely not crap, though maybe some of the tier-1 operators out there who actually put equipment through the grinder can shed some light.
Finally, I don't know if the bolt is actually being issued or not. If there's no source and it was posted on TOS, take it with many grains of salt.
So how exactly is your ACB better than a standard bolt? Aside from maybe a slightly better extractor it is built pretty identicle.
You can only do so much when working with a certain barrel extension.
Eta: i was readin that patent and it says the common extractor spring is only good for 3,000 rounds? Pretty sure they are good for longer than that, i know the ones I have are above that.
Those rumors are likely being posted by LWRCi's employees AS USUAL. :rolleyes:
SomeOtherGuy
11-12-12, 10:34
And while we're on the subject, the LWRC Advanced Combat Bolt introduced NO NEW FEATURES that had not already been R&D'd and introduced on other previous bolt designs.
It is clearly an amalgamation of the LMT Enhanced bolt assembly with the lobster-tail extractor, dual-spring setup, and the coating on the outside of the bolt. It also borrows from the KAC SR15 E3 bolt as well with the fully supported face (which the LMT also has) and the alteration of the geometry around the extractor cut.
The LMT bolt was being used for nearly half a decade before the ACB ever hit the market. The KAC bolt longer than that.
So before anybody starts speaking about the merits of the ACB, let's be honest and admit that any merits it may have were simply unpatented advancements made by other designers/companies.
Also, take a look at this lovely little whitepaper from LWRC that states that normal bolts are made from 8620 steel. That's sounds really nice....except the CARRIER is made from 8620. The std mil spec bolt is made from Carpenter 158 A. Nice try, LWRC. Nice try.
Some commercial bolts are / used to be made from 8620. It's not bad steel, but it's not up to level of Carpenter 158 (aka P6) in this application.
Improvements to the standard AR15 bolt have been made by LMT and KAC as noted above, Armalite (shortened lug opposite the extractor to reduce asymmetric forces), and ITS / AR-Performance (lugs meeting bolt head with a radius instead of sharp corner, larger outer diameter at cam pin hole area).
It would seem like Colt, FN, or someone with similar credentials could incorporate all the good ideas that have been tried into an improved bolt that is dramatically more durable while working within the existing barrel extension and bolt carrier.
I am very cautious with anything I read on that particular site as well.
That's funny considering at a 'survivalist' web forum they refer to the gang over here as 'fanboys' and ' AR15 snobs'.....all because you recommend a quality product over saving money.....go figure. :blink:
Let me say that this is not a knock or derogatory statement from me....I love this site for everything related to the AR15. I've learned more here than all other AR15 / M4 sites combined, and I come here often just to lurk and read all the great data from 'users' of the platform.
What is really astounding, and humorous, is how many of those jack-wagons try to give advice about the AR15....and come off sounding like complete idiots. Most wouldn't survive 5 minutes if the excrement ever hits the fan.
So before anybody starts speaking about the merits of the ACB, let's be honest and admit that any merits it may have were simply unpatented advancements made by other designers/companies.
This and those imbeciles probably cut a bunch of corners and made the thing just like most of the other JUNK that rolls out of their line.
I wish people would stop supporting companies with such shady business practices like LWRCi.
Maybe the DEA can adopt this bolt too! :D
skullworks
11-12-12, 10:48
Isn't it just a hearsay version of the Navy contract that LWRC received (but which they never fulfilled and later was cancelled)?
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