View Full Version : Buddy got a young doe
Littlelebowski
11-11-12, 12:27
This morning while hiking. All by himself. No shit. Carried her 50 yards to show me.
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h251/baxshep/IMG_20121111_101311.jpg
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h251/baxshep/IMG_20121111_102311.jpg
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h251/baxshep/IMG_20121111_102318_1.jpg
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lethal dose
11-11-12, 12:47
Sure he didn't find it dead? :p
Nice kill! Make him some jerky treats!
Littlelebowski
11-11-12, 12:57
Sure he didn't find it dead? :p
Nice kill! Make him some jerky treats!
I watched him run her down but the actual kill was out of my sight
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lethal dose
11-11-12, 13:03
Very impressive! I've heard of similar happenings. The closest I've come to witnessing something similar was when my chow chow chased one of my goats for about 1/8 mile. The goat lost steam, the chow caught up, the goat turned on a dime, stood her ground, and got a lucky belly shot on the dog. Akira never did care to "play" with the goats after that.
Littlelebowski
11-11-12, 13:49
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h251/baxshep/IMG_20121111_101431.jpg
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ICANHITHIMMAN
11-11-12, 13:55
This is not good, it would be legal for some one to shoot your dog if some one saw that in progress, at least here in NY. I suppose it happens all the time but just watch out for him.
Littlelebowski
11-11-12, 13:56
This is not good, it would be legal for some one to shoot your dog if some one saw that in progress, at least here in NY. I suppose it happens all the time but just watch out for him.
It will be fine.
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This is not good, it would be legal for some one to shoot your dog if some one saw that in progress, at least here in NY. I suppose it happens all the time but just watch out for him.
When I lived in New England it was a commonly accepted practice to shoot dogs engaged in such activity. Then again, in New England during hunting season it is common practice to shoot anything that moves, whether it be blaze orange or not.
Raven Armament
11-11-12, 14:31
This is not good, it would be legal for some one to shoot your dog if some one saw that in progress, at least here in NY. I suppose it happens all the time but just watch out for him.
Here in MI, only the DNR can shoot deer chasing dogs. WI is the same.
Yeah, shooting someones deer dog down here will get you a lot of trouble, legal and "Next of Kin" style.
Now if he could only skin and quarter it.
halfkorean
11-11-12, 16:16
Was he trained to hunt? I mean, I know dogs have a inherent ability to ability to hunt but was there any training? Especially since he was alone.
I have always wondered what my GSD mix would do if it came to bigger game (outside of squirrels and rabbits) because he is so nice.
Littlelebowski
11-11-12, 16:22
Was he trained to hunt? I mean, I know dogs have a inherent ability to ability to hunt but was there any training? Especially since he was alone.
I have always wondered what my GSD mix would do if it came to bigger game (outside of squirrels and rabbits) because he is so nice.
No, he's got some protection training but that's it. High prey drive, and aggressive when needs be but great with kids
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Littlelebowski
11-11-12, 18:17
That is what dogs do.
Precisely.
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That's awesome! Around here no one would care. I'd definitely skin it and get as much meat as possible. That would be great eating!
That. is. awesome.
My other dog Morgan (half lab half wimer), nearly did that earlier this year, but I called him off. He's got a super high prey drive. Can't have him around any cats or smaller animals what-so-ever, without supervision or else he'll be dragging back a carcase.
Littlelebowski
11-11-12, 18:44
I was eyeing that backstrap but there was a chance of other hikers coming around....
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7.62WildBill
11-11-12, 19:41
Buddy is a magnificent looking dog. I hope he gives you and your family a long life of service, companionship, entertainment and all those things only dogs can do for us. Your story made me recall this one that happened to a good friend about 4 years ago.
http://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s488/wildwoodbill000/maplethehunter.jpg
This is my buddy, his 36 pound 1/4 Jack Russel 3/4 Boykin, and her kill. She has taken countless rabbits, squirrels, moles, etc...but this was her largest quarry. This is his account of the story;
"I'll have to post the extended story when I find the time, but this is the synopsis: Maple jumped this deer, chased it through a field, through a briar thicket, into a pond, swam 100 yards+ through the pond chasing it and then caught it on the bank. I dispatched it with my knife. One deer with no gun, just Maple. I cooked the tenderloins for her, I thought she deserved them."
Failure2Stop
11-11-12, 22:28
I was eyeing that backstrap but there was a chance of other hikers coming around....
That's too bad. Nacho deserved to eat well for a few days for the effort.
High Tower
11-12-12, 09:57
That. is. awesome.
Agreed.
I would think with the overpopulation of deer in most places, no one would care if a dog takes down a deer. Especially a small doe.
FlyingHunter
11-14-12, 21:28
Nice to see/hear of a dog that still has its instincts. Neat story and thanks for sharing.
Also, in keeping with another posters line of thought...should someone ever feel the need to start shooting at a dog for chasing after a wild _________ and following its predatory nature, most dog owners I know would immediately answer with return fire. Bad choice in these parts...e.g. Bob Lee Swagger: You don't understand how serious this is. They killed my dog.
Dogs don't get shot often here in VT but it happens. It is usually done by a Game Warden.
That is a great looking pup.
This morning while hiking. All by himself. No shit. Carried her 50 yards to show me.
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h251/baxshep/IMG_20121111_101311.jpg
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h251/baxshep/IMG_20121111_102311.jpg
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h251/baxshep/IMG_20121111_102318_1.jpg
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It is impressive your dog was able to do that alone, I usually hear about packs killing deer.
RogerinTPA
11-15-12, 12:17
I had no idea domesticated dogs were capable of taking deer down, especially solo. That's a great story and awesome dog LL.
Littlelebowski
11-15-12, 14:10
That is a great looking pup.
Thanks. I adopted him full grown off of Craigslist after his original owner pawned him off on a friend who didn't have the time to interact with him nor train him. He bonded to me quick but took a while to learn manners and get trained. Second dog off of Craiglist that's turned out great for me and neither of them were pups.
PA PATRIOT
11-16-12, 17:10
Deleted by Phila PD
Will_Power
11-16-12, 19:05
Gotta admit, I got a bit ole smile on my face now.
Good dog!
What a great dog! A video of the whole thing would have been awesome. But of course, these things aren't planned, and it's the spontaneity that makes it perfect. With her skill in hunting, I wonder what animal would he be hurdling next...
montanadave
11-18-12, 17:53
Not to be a downer, but in Montana domestic dogs chasing down and killing hooved game animals get shot without any criminal or civil liability.
Definitely frowned upon in this neck of the woods.
Not to be a downer, but in Montana domestic dogs chasing down and killing hooved game animals get shot without any criminal or civil liability.
Definitely frowned upon in this neck of the woods.
Dogs that chase deer will also chase down and kill livestock, especially sheep and goats but also young calves. They call also be harassing of cows and horses.
Littlelebowski
11-18-12, 17:57
Not to be a downer, but in Montana domestic dogs chasing down and killing hooved game animals get shot without any criminal or civil liability.
Definitely frowned upon in this neck of the woods.
Not in my neck of the woods though this was not planned.
http://www.dgif.virginia.gov/hunting/regulations/deer.asp
Littlelebowski
11-18-12, 17:58
Dogs that chase deer will also chase down and kill livestock, especially sheep and goats but also young calves. They call also be harassing of cows and horses.
I was raised on a Wyoming cattle ranch and well aware of this. The dog is fine around the livestock he's been around which is horses.
I was raised on a Wyoming cattle ranch and well aware of this. The dog is fine around the livestock he's been around which is horses.
Understood. Some here though don't see the whole picture. In New Jersey and the east side of Pennsylvania are overwhelmed with deer due to the lack of hunting and natural predators which cull excess deer. In other parts of the country deer move from small forested areas to small farms and back, grazing with sheep, goats, and cattle, in these areas deer populations may be much smaller and farmers are very protective of their livestock and the limited game resources (relative to other areas) in their areas.
montanadave
11-18-12, 18:13
Don't get me wrong. Looks like a great dog. I was just noting, as others have as well, that in different parts of the country such incidents can have a decidely different outcome, generally to the detriment of the dog.
I've lost two dogs over the past twenty-five years to trigger happy neighbors that just didn't like my pets on their property ... and there wasn't **** all I could do about it.
Littlelebowski
11-18-12, 18:13
Same here in VA. Needs culling and on some highways, outright dangerous (http://rationalgun.blogspot.com/2012/06/beware-jumping-charging-deer.html). Out here, the deer are in some neighborhoods, outright pests, unafraid of people.
In Wyoming, on our 50k acre cattle ranch, my dog would be locked down and taught a whole new ROE, montandave. I plan to use a shock collar for this very purpose.
Same here in VA. Needs culling and on some highways, outright dangerous (http://rationalgun.blogspot.com/2012/06/beware-jumping-charging-deer.html). Out here, the deer are in some neighborhoods, outright pests, unafraid of people.
In Wyoming, on our 50k acre cattle ranch, my dog would be locked down and taught a whole new ROE, montandave. I plan to use a shock collar for this very purpose.
I have never seen so many deer in my like as I did one evening driving from Philly to Atlantic City. It shocks me that they don't sell more grill guards out that way.
I was eyeing that backstrap but there was a chance of other hikers coming around....
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Sorry man, if I see a dog running deer, I'll shoot it. Bad enough the dog killed it, but then to waste the meat by leaving it? IMO it's no better or different than a poacher killing for fun.
Littlelebowski
11-19-12, 13:54
Sorry man, if I see a dog running deer, I'll shoot it. Bad enough the dog killed it, but then to waste the meat by leaving it? IMO it's no better or different than a poacher killing for fun.
Well, that's the problem. I wasn't going to compound onto a potential legal problem by illegally harvesting a deer without a license.
As far as the morality of it, oh well. I do regret the waste but I'm not going to lose sleep about it.
montanadave
11-19-12, 14:38
With respect to the frequency of deer-vehicle accidents, here's an interesting map put together by State Farm Insurance:
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/7028/deercollisionmap2012.jpg
Littlelebowski
11-19-12, 16:51
Sorry man, if I see a dog running deer, I'll shoot it.
Don't care what you would do, my dog will never be running where you will be able to shoot it. Not impressed, don't care.
Don't care what you would do, my dog will never be running where you will be able to shoot it. Not impressed, don't care.
Guess your dog's lucky. :sarcastic:
Raven Armament
11-19-12, 23:48
Sorry man, if I see a dog running deer, I'll shoot it. Bad enough the dog killed it, but then to waste the meat by leaving it? IMO it's no better or different than a poacher killing for fun.
Shoot my dog and I will shoot you. Try me. :nono:
Pets Are Family.
If someone's adolescent son went out and killed a deer outside of hunting season, would it be ok to shoot him? Course not.
That's up to the parents to discipline. Don't take shots at a dude's family, whether the human or K9 variety, unless you have a death wish.
Raven Armament
11-20-12, 00:43
Pets Are Family.
Pets are property. Humans are family.
Property doesn't have a unique personality. Property is not intelligent. Property cannot love you.
Littlelebowski
11-20-12, 06:33
Guess your dog's lucky. :sarcastic:
Indeed, he is. He was adopted off of Craigslist and has a good family that he's adjusted well to. The pic below is of my daughter (whom he's very protective of) sitting on him and pouring sand on his head. Cute pic, eh?
I'm not sure if you thought you were going to impress folk with your talk about being such a hardass that you'd shoot a family pet for chasing an overpopulated wild species but...you didn't. You would shoot a dog, big deal. I'd shoot a dog if I had to but we both have very different ideas on when it's necessary. For instance, in defense of a human or if the dog is chasing with intent to harm or harming livestock. Regardless, you're not shooting my dog because he doesn't run wild on other folk's land or anywhere where you might be hunting.
You should find other threads to post in if you're determined not to contribute here.
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h251/baxshep/NaomiNachoSand.jpg
Pets Are Family.
If someone's adolescent son went out and killed a deer outside of hunting season, would it be ok to shoot him? Course not.
That's up to the parents to discipline. Don't take shots at a dude's family, whether the human or K9 variety, unless you have a death wish.
Ok, pets are family you say. So if the pet is a family member, treat it as such and discipline it. I guess if a dog is allowed to do it, then the kid would be too. :rolleyes:
Shoot my dog and I will shoot you. Try me. :nono:
Keep it on a leash or fenced in....
You should find other threads to post in if you're determined not to contribute here.
You posted this stuff. Expect to get negative comments. Not everyone thinks it's ok to have dogs running and killing deer for the hell of it. Youre right, I don't hunt near you, but ya know the saying....Every dog has it's day.
Littlelebowski
11-20-12, 11:16
Keep it on a leash or fenced in....If not, I'll bring it's collar home with me. ;)
Dude, just go away. You're a tough guy, we get it. However, where my dog runs free; you wouldn't be getting away with shooting him. Think about property and public places. Ponder where you hunt versus where folks might have their dogs off leash.
Or continue to thump your chest about shooting dogs. Just do it elsewhere. You're adding nothing to the conversation and are repeating yourself.
Littlelebowski
11-20-12, 11:18
You posted this stuff. Expect to get negative comments. Not everyone thinks it's ok to have dogs running and killing deer for the hell of it. Youre right, I don't hunt near you, but ya know the saying....Every dog has it's day.
Yup. Got it. You are making a point to embellish. My dog is running free 24/7 killing the endangered white tail and I can't control it. Only tough guys like you can stop the carnage!
Yep, tough guys like me. :p
Out....
In a way I think it is cool your dog still has that instinct and prey drive. However, 2 things concern me about this. 1st wasting the meat is a ticketable offense, actually the fines can be a pretty penny. 2nd if anyone saw this go down or does see something like this in the future all it would take is 1 phone call to animal control and your dog could be gone. He's a great looking dog and I'm sure part of the family now so why take the chance of losing him? There are quite a few knuckleheads out there that would gladly shoot him or at him. As evidenced by the attitude of the poster before me.
By the way the hunting regulations you posted for VA concern hunters using dogs to run deer as part of an organized hunt. They do not cover a dog running down a deer and killing it on it's own and not part of an organized hunt. Your event and hunters running deer dogs as part of a hunt are 2 totally different things.
Not bad for someone's first 6 posts. It's almost like he's interested in being part of the community here.
I was thinking the same thing a few minutes ago
Raven Armament
11-20-12, 15:32
Property doesn't have a unique personality. Property is not intelligent. Property cannot love you.
To me, an animal will never take the role of a human in an equal place, therefore a dog will never be family. They will always be an animal and that makes them property because they are owned by humans. Besides, I'm pretty sure my dog hates me, but I hate him too. Actually it's the wife's dog I just got stuck having to care for it.
Agree to disagree.
Besides, I'm pretty sure my dog hates me, but I hate him too.
LoL. See what I mean? The dog acts like an in-law
Littlelebowski
11-20-12, 15:44
In a way I think it is cool your dog still has that instinct and prey drive. However, 2 things concern me about this. 1st wasting the meat is a ticketable offense, actually the fines can be a pretty penny. 2nd if anyone saw this go down or does see something like this in the future all it would take is 1 phone call to animal control and your dog could be gone. He's a great looking dog and I'm sure part of the family now so why take the chance of losing him? There are quite a few knuckleheads out there that would gladly shoot him or at him. As evidenced by the attitude of the poster before me.
By the way the hunting regulations you posted for VA concern hunters using dogs to run deer as part of an organized hunt. They do not cover a dog running down a deer and killing it on it's own and not part of an organized hunt. Your event and hunters running deer dogs as part of a hunt are 2 totally different things.
OK, fair enough. Let me clarify so that all shall know:
I don't plan on this happening again.
I am not under the assumption that this event falls under VA hunting regs ; rather posting the reg was a response to a deleted post by someone in this thread who asserted that hunting with dogs in VA is illegal.
I was not cognizant when this happened on the legality of harvesting of meat taken in this fashion and it seems to be a Catch 22 in that one cannot allow a dog to take down certain animals but if the dog does do so, it is also illegal to NOT harvest the meat? Little bit of a disconnect there.......
The dog does not run wild. The dog is very well trained on and off leash.
Where this happened, was not open to hunting but I was allowed to be there. I don't take my daughter hiking and my dog walking where some ****tard could shoot us as kmrtsn alluded to earlier in this thread.
I posted the pics because I thought folks would enjoy the story and the pics. Most did with only a few DERP DERP accusations.
I hate the ****ing internet sometimes.
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I thought the pics and what happened is cool. To be honest with you I'd probably react exactly the same way as you did. My kids would also be amazed and bragging about their dog! Unfortunately there is the flip side.
I'm big time into labs and running field trials and hunt tests with them so working dogs are something I love. If I ever get a dog other than another lab it would be either a GSD or the Malinois and I'd definitely get into a training group with them. So please dont take my post and shooting down what happened. Just showing the flip side to it.
I am going to add to Littlelebowski's post above. I am the one who brought up the whole shooting of dogs thing. I did so as a cautionary example for Littlelebowski. In retrospect, I should have PM's Littlelebowski and we could have had an exchange of info offline. In the instances of this of which I am personally aware there were distinct differences in the events and circumstance that I should probably have exemplified, such as that the dogs were 'running wild", off leash, without owners present and there areas were more plentiful with livestock and not deer. In Littlelebowski's particular situation I point out the following; his dog is young, he is training his dog, his dog was off leash in his presence and ran the deer down unintentionally, and that he intends to address training to this particular situation. I agree, were it my dog I would have mixed feelings. On one hand, I'd be proud of my animal's abilities and on the other I'd see the need to correct the behavior. In my past communications with Littlelebowski I am confident that he would agree with me and my assessment above. In the end it comes down to this, the dog did as dogs do without training and that will be addressed. Caution was given, the message was received, and all are clear on the issues. I am off of my soapbox now, please help keep this thread on track.
Raven Armament
11-20-12, 16:02
I was not cognizant when this happened on the legality of harvesting of meat taken in this fashion and it seems to be a Catch 22 in that one cannot allow a dog to take down certain animals but if the dog does do so, it is also illegal to NOT harvest the meat? Little bit of a disconnect there.......
I thought it was pretty cool. Sort of like falconry, but only with a dog. :) I wouldn't lose sleep over it.
Littlelebowski
11-20-12, 16:04
I am going to add to Littlelebowski's post above. I am the one who brought up the whole shooting of dogs thing. I did so as a cautionary example for Littlelebowski. In retrospect, I should have PM's Littlelebowski and we could have had an exchange of info offline. In the instances of this of which I am personally aware there were distinct differences in the events and circumstance that I should probably have exemplified, such as that the dogs were 'running wild", off leash, without owners present and there areas were more plentiful with livestock and not deer. In Littlelebowski's particular situation I point out the following; his dog is young, he is training his dog, his dog was off leash in his presence and ran the deer down unintentionally, and that he intends to address training to this particular situation. I agree, were it my dog I would have mixed feelings. On one hand, I'd be proud of my animal's abilities and on the other I'd see the need to correct the behavior. In my past communications with Littlelebowski I am confident that he would agree with me and my assessment above. In the end it comes down to this, the dog did as dogs do without training and that will be addressed. Caution was given, the message was received, and all are clear on the issues. I am off of my soapbox now, please help keep this thread on track.
Yup on all.
Question for those in this thread. Have you ever let your dog chase deer, certain that nothing would come of it but a winded dog?
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Good looking dog. Obviously high prey drive. We have two gsd's and a mal, the maly has way way higher prey drive. Ours get rabbits and squirrels, no deer yet.
And to the comments about shooting a dog "engaged" n such activities, I'd suggest that's a poor policy to follow.
Littlelebowski
11-20-12, 16:21
Yeah, the white tail population on the east coast is not worth shooting a family pet for. I have a pic of this dog with a squirrel on his mouth; I wonder if I'd be vilified for wasting that meat too?
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dirt_diver
11-20-12, 16:34
Care to post it?
It might provide some here with a little (much needed) perspective.
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Littlelebowski
11-20-12, 17:13
Care to post it?
It might provide some here with a little (much needed) perspective.
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Let the hand wringing and threats of shooting dogs commence!
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h251/baxshep/IMG_20121027_105626.jpg
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Let the hand wringing and threats of shooting dogs commence!
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h251/baxshep/IMG_20121027_105626.jpg
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If he can catch rabbits I'd gladly pay to have him shipped out here. Sadly, there are so many he'd probably run himself to death.
Oh my God how could you let that poor poor dog eat tree rats! Can't you find him something mor fit for consumption!? You don't deserve to have such a fine animal - send him to me and he will eat like a king:D.
Not bad for someone's first 6 posts. It's almost like he's interested in being part of the community here.
Don't worry about my 6 posts. I been a member here for over a year. It's not like I joined just to bash in this thread. Perhaps I prefer to read instead of trying to rack my post count up. Just so happens I ran across this thread and I felt a need to voice my opinion in the matter. I can't help it that it wasnt what everyone wanted to hear.
Again...good dog. Good strong follow through, in prey drive, which he pretty much has, is the root of all protection work. Everytime he catches something it builds his confidence. Every time he chases something it builds the drive. All good traits.
Side story...our trainers sister had, until 3 weeks ago a beautiful PH1 mal. Their property backs up to some hunting land and some dick face shot off his left front leg. Whatever the dog was doing,while on his own property, didn't deserve that. Poor boy drug himself into the garage and bled out. Aside from the heart break he was a awesome boy. I'd be hunting me
a hunter .
What an amazing dog. I would never shoot your buddy.
dirt_diver
11-20-12, 21:41
Let the hand wringing and threats of shooting dogs commence!
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h251/baxshep/IMG_20121027_105626.jpg
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Love that pic, and really any other pic of him. What a great looking dog!
It's funny how people have such strong feelings about certain animals, yet couldn't care less about others. Oh well.
Raven Armament
11-20-12, 21:50
I wonder if I'd be vilified for wasting that meat too?
Not so much from me. Bears use them to wipe their ass when they shit in the woods. That being said, squirrels are great table fare. I'm just glad your dog still has the instinct. Celebrate it. :dance3:
lethal dose
11-21-12, 04:01
People's dogs are always on my property. They probably kill things. As long as it's not my animals, I don't care. Animals kill animals.
After reading this thread I took a little poll. Of six hunters I asked only one knew it was now illegal to shoot dogs in NY. Four of the six said they would shoot the dog. To be honest I've never seen the point in shooting a dog running deer. At best It will pull down a small or injured deer. Even a rut stressed buck will outrun or out manuver a dog.
Now cats, I shoot cats on sight. Nothing worse than a cat loose in the woods.
Littlelebowski
11-21-12, 06:24
Not so much from me. Bears use them to wipe their ass when they shit in the woods. That being said, squirrels are great table fare. I'm just glad your dog still has the instinct. Celebrate it. :dance3:
I've tried it and I must have been shooting the old ones because it was tough as hell even after an overnight saltwater soak.
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Littlelebowski
11-21-12, 06:32
To be honest I've never seen the point in shooting a dog running deer. At
I think it's spite. Spite at the dog flushing the deer when your hunting and that urge to shoot something that so many have, unfortunately.
I'd damned sure shoot a dog harming livestock. Otherwise, I'm not so trigger happy with pets chasing wild, overpopulated animals.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
11-21-12, 09:05
I cant imagine shooting a dog in the wild for chasing a deer. Youve got a domesticated animal going back to his most primal roots and doing what he does best, its the same reason why us men go out into the woods to kill things. Bravo!
Littlelebowski
11-21-12, 09:23
So, I've scoured the internet for state law on a hunter shooting a dog and so far, I can't find any laws stating it's legal to shoot dogs while hunting. It is legal to shoot a dog on your property if the dog is intent on doing harm to livestock.
Personally, I don't think it's worth risking a possible legal problem to shoot a dog chasing a deer out of spite. I'm also the guy that carries everyday but feels that the firearm is the very last resort so keep that in mind.
Littlelebowski
11-21-12, 09:31
So, far all I've found the law on cruelty to animals. Seems quite likely to be something worry about it you shoot a dog not injuring livestock or threatening humans.
I'm very probably out of my lane on this.
Cruelty to animals: VA. CODE ANN. § 3.2-6570
1. CRUELTY TO ANIMALS
VA. CODE ANN. § 3.2-6570 (2010). Cruelty to animals; penalty
A. Any person who: (i) overrides, overdrives, overloads, tortures, ill-treats, abandons, willfully inflicts
inhumane2 injury or pain not connected with bona fide scientific or medical experimentation, or cruelly
or unnecessarily beats, maims, mutilates, or kills any animal,3 whether belonging to himself or another;
(ii) deprives any animal of necessary food, drink, shelter or emergency veterinary treatment;4 (iii) sores5
any equine for any purpose or administers drugs or medications to alter or mask such soring for the
purpose of sale, show, or exhibition of any kind, unless such administration of drugs or medications is
within the context of a veterinary client-patient relationship and solely for therapeutic purposes; (iv)
willfully sets on foot, instigates, engages in, or in any way furthers any act of cruelty to any animal; (v)
carries or causes to be carried by any vehicle, vessel or otherwise any animal in a cruel, brutal, or
inhumane manner, so as to produce torture or unnecessary suffering; or (vi) causes any of the above
things, or being the owner6 of such animal permits such acts to be done by another is guilty of a Class 1
misdemeanor.
montanadave
11-21-12, 10:10
As I previously stated, I don't condemn you or your dog in this case. But I have some mixed emotions about the whole situation. My wife and I purchased several hundred acres earlier this year and there are deer on this property. I have actively restrained my dogs from chasing the deer (and turkeys, etc.) as I enjoy having the wildlife roaming about. Our long-term plans for the property are to place it in a conservation easement.
Over the past few months, I have found a neighbors' two new dogs (basically big pups at this point) running on my property, several times chasing the deer. I've also seen the dogs across the county road running on pasture containing both cows and horses. I'm not the type to shoot a neighbor's dog, but I don't have a problem bringing it to their attention and asking them to correct the situation. They're nice dogs, but I'm afraid they are likely to meet an unpleasant end if their owners do not restrain them. Chasing the wildlife is a nuisance, but if one of the neighboring ranchers sees them running loose amongst their livestock their days are numbered.
As for the law, in Montana it is against the law for a person to "purposely, knowingly, or negligently permit a dog to chase, stalk, pursue, attack, or kill a hooved game animal." (MCA 2011 87-6-604)
I do not believe the law makes provisions for a hunter or landowner to destroy a dog chasing wildlife, however such actions can be reported and "…any peace officer, game warden, or other person authorized to enforce the Montana fish and game laws who witnesses a dog chasing, stalking, pursuing, attacking, or killing hooved game animals may destroy that dog, on public land or on private land at the request of the landowner, without criminal or civil liability."
Littlelebowski
11-21-12, 10:16
montanadave, I don't disagree with a word you posted. Your neighbor needs to get his dogs under control. All it takes it is one dead calf or say a horse that is spooked and bucks its rider off, injuring the human for your neighbor to have an expensive legal problem.
When my dog visits my family's Wyoming cattle ranch, he will be taught not to go near livestock, period. My brother's dog on the ranch (a hunting breed) has been successfully taught to stay away from livestock and I don't anticipate a problem. I've already had this dog around horses and he was curious but very hesitant around them. I think he knew a hoof could ruin his day. I was happy to see him sniffing and wagging instead of barking.
this is a common topic on a Texas hunting forum I frequent....biggest problem is when they chase in packs and really are quite efficient at killing deer. A single dog catch is something I don't see very often.
This thread is going down the same road as the hunting forum but a bit less rabid as both sides are passionate. The ranch I hunt is 7k acres and game fenced, so we rarely see strays on our game cams or chasing deer. Maybe once a year or so and none had collars. Our biologist tells us to shoot them, but I worry about it being a member's or guest. We make sure all dogs that come to camp have collars on.
Anyway, we have a saying for 'problem' dogs: SSS
Shoot
Shovel
Shut-up
....biggest problem is when they chase in packs and really are quite efficient at killing deer. A single dog catch is something I don't see very often.
I'd agree with this 100%
Littlelebowski
11-24-12, 12:51
Dog has been called off of chasing deer successfully twice this weekend.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
FlyingHunter
11-24-12, 14:49
FWIW...I live in a rural setting surrounded by cow/calf cattle farmers. They make their living from the farm operations. My daily walk/run the dog trail covers nearly 2 miles of border with these farms. I have a German Shepherd that I wanted to be trained to be respectful of property lines by command. I hired a trainer when he was young and her command lessons included carrying dog treats on the trail, when he approached the barbed wire fence, I commanded WHOA! which caught his attention, and then I vigorously praised him and gave him a treat. Before we did this in the field we did it in the basement...confined, less distractions etc...Over time on WHOA command he stops in his tracks and looks for a treat. Later treats were replaced with hyper praise as it's not always practical to have treats every time you need them. As he's now two years old and a faster learner than I am...he rarely will even move in the direction to start to cross the fence line, even when 20-30 cows and calves are on the fence line. Lot's of praise, always finish training on a positive, and consistency will win the day. Dogs are great!
Littlelebowski
11-26-12, 09:30
Same dog.
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h251/baxshep/NachoJames.jpg
Same dog.
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h251/baxshep/NachoJames.jpg
He brought home a baby? Awesome
Littlelebowski
11-26-12, 12:55
He brought home a baby? Awesome
Yeah, hopefully there's a bag limit :D
Yeah, hopefully there's a bag limit :D
You may want to nip that in the bud. Otherwise you could have a whole neighborhoods worth of kids running around your house. I hope this doesn't lead to him going afoul of the law. He could end up like that husky who would take off to the local Pet Superstore and come home with all sorts of dog treats.
Littlelebowski
11-26-12, 13:33
You may want to nip that in the bud. Otherwise you could have a whole neighborhoods worth of kids running around your house. I hope this doesn't lead to him going afoul of the law. He could end up like that husky who would take off to the local Pet Superstore and come home with all sorts of dog treats.
Yeah, I can't afford any more kids :D
montanadave
11-26-12, 13:59
He brought home a baby? Awesome
:D
Must have a soft mouth.
Littlelebowski
11-26-12, 14:01
:D
Must have a soft mouth.
The day we took this pic while doing some Schutzhund, the trainer was warning everyone else about my dog's teeth.
"You'll want to wear gloves with this one" was said :D
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h251/baxshep/fbad8576.jpg
Lebowski - My other German, the Wiemer, just got a kill. Not quite as impressive as the Mals', but I figured I'd share.... :D
http://i515.photobucket.com/albums/t354/stangman2v/BE545249-396C-45CB-905C-527E1151D168-10543-0000142CE96AB853.jpg
Littlelebowski
12-05-12, 13:19
So, I spoke to some local LE and wildlife management folks. VA is pretty level headed about things like this and had I known (and had cell coverage) I could have called VA fish and game and they would have issued me an "after the fact" tag on the spot so that the meat wouldn't be wasted.
It's good to know this but I don't plan on this sort of thing happening again unless I plan for it with tag and logistics already sorted out.
For certain people in this thread.....skip rocks :D
Just came across this searching for another statute.
http://www.leg.state.vt.us/statutes/fullsection.cfm?Title=10&Chapter=113&Section=04748
montanadave
12-06-12, 22:03
The day we took this pic while doing some Schutzhund, the trainer was warning everyone else about my dog's teeth.
"You'll want to wear gloves with this one" was said :D
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h251/baxshep/fbad8576.jpg
So has your pooch ever considered a career in show-biz?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaGX7eIDET4
People have used dogs, hawks, and falcons, to aid them in finding, catching, and killing game animals for 100's if not THOUSANDS of years. Get over it.
I bird hunt with my dogs and use an Ecollar to keep him from running deer, rabbits, ect.
If anyone shoots at my dog, they will have a problem on their hands. Of course I dont live in the east where it seems every hillybilly shoots at EVERYTHING, and I hunt public land off the beaten path (lazy slob hunters that would shoot dogs nowhere to be found)
Yeah, hopefully there's a bag limit :D
Yeah, I can't afford any more kids :D
Cute little dude!
...Of course I dont live in the east where it seems every hillybilly shoots at EVERYTHING...
Nice.
FWIW, I lived in Texas for several years. I didn't note the caliber of yokel there was any higher than anywhere else in the States.
Back on topic, I'm glad to hear you're a responsible dog owner. Unfortunately, not all are.
ClearedHot
12-14-12, 02:34
That's a great looking Malinois you got there.
Littlelebowski
12-14-12, 06:19
That's a great looking Malinois you got there.
Craigslist adoptee :cool:
Good for your dog. Its good to see some dogs still have the killer instinct, yet are able to be around infants. The perfect pet, if you will.
I've been impressed with my basset hound when he's brought in a few birds late in the night. Not impressed at the time, but after the fact, it was a nice gesture from him. He laid them on my sandals I keep by the door when I let him out. I'm guessiung they were presents. If he brought a small doe in, he'd be eating well. I'd even sautee some onions and peppers for him. I tell him every time before I leave, if I come home, and there's a burglar dead in my house with his throat torn out, the dog gets steak and eggs for every meal for the rest of his life.
Your dog deserves the same. As long as he is able to "control" his hunting habits, I see no problem with it.
montanadave
01-01-13, 10:56
LL- I know these guys aren't the same breed as your little buddy, but I saw this yesterday and it made me think of this thread. Happy New Year.
http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/9817/mailztc.jpg
7.62WildBill
01-01-13, 10:59
LL- I know these guys aren't the same breed as your little buddy, but I saw this yesterday and it made me think of this thread. Happy New Year.
http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/9817/mailztc.jpg
Awesome! Thanks for that laugh, and Happy New Year to All!!!
Littlelebowski
01-01-13, 14:02
too small lol - a fawn
Not a fawn.
poor deer;)
sniff sniff, lost loins.
Buddy did better than me this year. :D
What a beast of a dog. Beautiful.
Oh, and good job adopting grown dogs. More people should.
Littlelebowski,
You seem to have a good grip on this situation but I'll add some support. This is Sophie, an adopted American Pit Bull Terrier who came from a shelter in GA. She is an excellent companion, protector of my family, and a best friend to my young nieces and nephews. Your Buddy was just doing what he was designed to do and I commend you on your training and dedication in making him a good dog, as well as doing the research on obtaining an "after the fact" tag should this ever happen again. Likewise, as someone who grew up on a farm, I thank you for knowing and understanding the difference between pursuit of a game animal and livestock. This dog took one correction to understand the difference between livestock and game animals.
http://i1136.photobucket.com/albums/n498/jamesguilliams/Pets/IMG00112-20100224-1640.jpg (http://s1136.photobucket.com/user/jamesguilliams/media/Pets/IMG00112-20100224-1640.jpg.html)
http://i1136.photobucket.com/albums/n498/jamesguilliams/Pets/08-01-09_1844.jpg (http://s1136.photobucket.com/user/jamesguilliams/media/Pets/08-01-09_1844.jpg.html)
http://i1136.photobucket.com/albums/n498/jamesguilliams/Pets/066-1.jpg (http://s1136.photobucket.com/user/jamesguilliams/media/Pets/066-1.jpg.html)
http://i1136.photobucket.com/albums/n498/jamesguilliams/Pets/SophieandTimber7.jpg (http://s1136.photobucket.com/user/jamesguilliams/media/Pets/SophieandTimber7.jpg.html)
http://i1136.photobucket.com/albums/n498/jamesguilliams/Pets/SophieandConnor4.jpg (http://s1136.photobucket.com/user/jamesguilliams/media/Pets/SophieandConnor4.jpg.html)
Dad was a big fan of letting my nephew ride her when he was younger. Any kid she has ever been around could do anything they wanted to do to her and she would never bat an eye at them. The only danger they were ever in was being licked all over.
http://i1136.photobucket.com/albums/n498/jamesguilliams/Pets/396.jpg (http://s1136.photobucket.com/user/jamesguilliams/media/Pets/396.jpg.html)
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