View Full Version : Help me figure out a new car 35k budget
I am probably going to be lemon lawing my 2012 Hyundai Sonata Turbo. Its in the shop for the 4th time with turbo issues and I dont think they can fix it since I believe its an issue with the design of the turbo system. An electric motor actuates the wastegate instead of a spring and vacuum source. This little motor is mounted TO THE TURBO and is constantly ****ing up. It is going to take a complete re-design from Hyundai to fix.
So I am starting to contemplate new cars. I think my budget is going to be up to around 35k which means I can obviously look at cars slightly above that number.
So far I have been thinking on:
2011+ Camaro SS
2011+ Mustang GT
06-08 Z06
08+ Corvette
08+ BMW 550
08+ BMW M3 coupe
07+ BMW M5
Hyundai Genesis 5.0 R-spec, but my dealer would have to really work on the price to get me into one.
So that is kind of what I am thinking on. Either a straight sports car coupe or a sports sedan. Probably at least 400hp or there abouts.
I have a Jeep Wrangler as well that I will probably end up daily driving, at least in inclement weather.
Anybody have thoughts on the above or anything else I should look at?
I've always liked the early 2000s M5.
Belmont31R
11-11-12, 15:48
BMW 335i sedan w/sports suspension. Can tune them and add bolt ons to get close to the M3 HP numbers, 4 doors, and doesn't have the M insurance tax. They start out at ~330HP, twin turbo, six cylinder. They did sell a 4 door M3 here for a little bit. 5 series are too big for my tastes...but you asked for 'advice'....:p
I had a 350Z so I understand the allure of a sports car but it gets old not being able to fit anything and limited space/seating. You'd run into the same thing with a ZO6, and adults don't like crawling into the back of a Mustang (had one, too). Going to the range, in the Z, I had to stuff the back and play tetris to get everything to fit. While you already have a Jeep even things like going away for the weekend..you'd want to take the fun car...and that means fitting everything and not feeling like you're stuffed to the gills.
I would also look at cars like the Audi S4 or S5...:D
lethal dose
11-11-12, 16:03
I have a highly modified mx-5. I regularly whoop other 2 seat rockets. One of the most fun cars I've owned. Low cost and highly capable. The 350z is another very capable machine. We had an '03 and it was a great car, too. If you're willing to pay a higher cost for maintenance, BMW makes some great performance cars, but be prepared for expense. Infiniti and Lexus are a bit more affordable if you're looking for sport luxury. For me, the mx-5 has been the one car I can carve the hardest with.
An Undocumented Worker
11-11-12, 17:44
Subaru BRZ fun, light, rwd, and not overly complicated.
The BRZ won't get you the straight line performance it sounds like you're after if that 350+ WHP figure is solid.
A somewhat older 3 series really is a solid contender on that, and the right M3 sounds like what you're after used, but again finding something that hasn't been abused will be hard to do.
new mustang or older Z06. but I could be a lil biased :D
If sedan isn't a requirement (4 doors, trunk space, etc), the Corvette is an easy way to the performance you'd want. The new Mustangs are pretty nice, too. If you have had a BMW before and like the driver's feel, the 3 series is a solid choice. All of those would be within the budget used (and possibly the Mustang new?).
I've always liked the early 2000s M5.
To old. And I am leaning away from the newer ones since everything I read online says they dont make great daily drivers due to the complexity and maintenance costs.
BMW 335i sedan w/sports suspension. Can tune them and add bolt ons to get close to the M3 HP numbers, 4 doors, and doesn't have the M insurance tax. They start out at ~330HP, twin turbo, six cylinder. They did sell a 4 door M3 here for a little bit. 5 series are too big for my tastes...but you asked for 'advice'....:p
I had a 350Z so I understand the allure of a sports car but it gets old not being able to fit anything and limited space/seating. You'd run into the same thing with a ZO6, and adults don't like crawling into the back of a Mustang (had one, too). Going to the range, in the Z, I had to stuff the back and play tetris to get everything to fit. While you already have a Jeep even things like going away for the weekend..you'd want to take the fun car...and that means fitting everything and not feeling like you're stuffed to the gills.
I would also look at cars like the Audi S4 or S5...:D
335i is definitely going to get looked at, but damn are people proud of used BMW's and I cant swing going for a new one.
350z/370z/g37 I dont think are really in the right category for what I am looking for. They ALMOST have enough HP and handling to match a Camaro, Mustang, or Vette. The sedan's dont get close to the higher HP sports sedans I am shopping either.
Audi S4's and S5's are interesting, but I have never been a VW/Audi fan.
I have a highly modified mx-5. I regularly whoop other 2 seat rockets. One of the most fun cars I've owned. Low cost and highly capable. The 350z is another very capable machine. We had an '03 and it was a great car, too. If you're willing to pay a higher cost for maintenance, BMW makes some great performance cars, but be prepared for expense. Infiniti and Lexus are a bit more affordable if you're looking for sport luxury. For me, the mx-5 has been the one car I can carve the hardest with.
I wasnt even going to dignify your post with a response, but no to a miata. I have respect for them, but just not my type of car.
The BRZ won't get you the straight line performance it sounds like you're after if that 350+ WHP figure is solid.
A somewhat older 3 series really is a solid contender on that, and the right M3 sounds like what you're after used, but again finding something that hasn't been abused will be hard to do.
yea no to a BRZ. I have in the past had high HP subaru STI's(06 with a shade over 500whp), but the BRZ hasnt caught my interest at all. Maybe with 300hp it would be fun, but in its current form, meh.
M3's are hard to find around here, but I can travel for the right car.
There are plenty of Vette's around here or I can order a new Camaro or Mustang exactly how I want it. I think I can get into anything I want in those 3 cars for around my 35k price.
Its the sports sedans that I am having issues picking something else out to look at that fits my budget and my criteria.
Magic_Salad0892
11-11-12, 20:12
Honda Civic. It's the Glock of cars. And you'll save money.
Honda Civic. It's the Glock of cars. And you'll save money.
Agreed. Anything made by Honda is practically bulletproof. Acura too.
Find a good used M5, then remove all of the M5 emblems and replace them with 525i emblems, then enjoy.
Honda Civic. It's the Glock of cars. And you'll save money.
Obviously he's not looking for a bland, ugly Glock that everyone has.
Find a good used M5, then remove all of the M5 emblems and replace them with 525i emblems, then enjoy.
Why do that?
I love my '06 330i, BMW's really do feel like the Ultimate Driving Machine. An M would be sick. They're expensive as hell to fix though...
Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your stated budget, because you are not going to get an 08 + vette for no $35,000.
Why do that?
I love my '06 330i, BMW's really do feel like the Ultimate Driving Machine. An M would be sick. They're expensive as hell to fix though...
Be the "gray man". Better to hide one's capabilities than wave them about like a banner.
Be the "gray man". Better to hide one's capabilities than wave them about like a banner.
I disagree, but that's all personal preference.
Be the "gray man". Better to hide one's capabilities than wave them about like a banner.
Or just leave the badges off altogether. Warned a friend against lining up with a debadged 3 series once. Needless to say, he was in for a surprise.
Subaru WRX STi. Then get a good stage 2 setup ( probably about 1500-2000 from a pro shop) will put you around 400 hp and 420 tq. Will run low 12s.
Also don't underestimate the G37, especially modified. Against the new Mustang and Comaro in the quarter mile you are only a half second and 4-5 mph slower. The engines are easy to get power out of. I have a 2010 sedan and my friends are routinely impressed with how fast it is, especially when starting from road going speeds. These friends drive 500 hp Subarus, 400 hp 335i and a new M3.
That being said I would trade my G37 in on a newer WRX or STi in a heart beat if I wasn't so upside down. I miss mine a lot. If you have never driven a STi you really should.
Or just leave the badges off altogether. Warned a friend against lining up with a debadged 3 series once. Needless to say, he was in for a surprise.
Yeah I warmed up to the debadging. I didn't really have a choice with mine, but I liked having it so people knew it was a 330i, not a 325i. Not that it actually matters.
Having recently come out of a WRX, I was looking for a bigger, more comfortable car. I wanted something fast and luxurious that wouldn't kill me at the pump. Here's what I wound up with:
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s157/Glocktogo/DSC_1053.jpg
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s157/Glocktogo/DSC_1054.jpg
08' Lexus GS 460. It's only 342hp, but the 8 speed automatic makes it feel a LOT quicker than it looks. The engine revs freely and the word that leaps to mind under full throttle is "thrust". One day a coworker was riding with me and she said "Umm, can we go back and get my kidneys?" :)
Yet with all that on tap, the super low .27 drag coefficient and 8 speed keeps me around 24 mpg in mixed driving. The 14 speaker, 7.1 surround Mark Levinson sound system is superb. The cabin is comfortable, roomy and quiet. It may not be as racy as the Infinity M45 or BMW M5, but for what I wanted, it's perfect. The incomparable Lexus quality and reliability doesn't hurt either! :)
I picked mine up a little over a year ago, with 26K on the odometer for $34,450. Not bad for a car that was $58,555 when new. I came very close to getting the new Kia Optima SX Limited, but they wanted nearly as much and weren't budging on the price. Plus it was FWD only and the GS is RWD. In the end, I just couldn't justify that much for a Kia.
Is your problem primarily the cold-start rattle and 2,000rpm rattle that sounds like the car is going to explode? Any other problems or is that it?
Mustang GT.
If you hold off another year, the 50th anniversary redesigned 2015 will be out.
It's widely speculated to look like a fusion coupe, like this mock-up:
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/12/ytatupuj.jpg
Aston-Martin looks, on a budget
Sent from my phone while I was on the toilet pooping
The_War_Wagon
11-12-12, 05:52
Late model 345 Hemi Grand Cherokee & be done with it! OR a Commander! :D
Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your stated budget, because you are not going to get an 08 + vette for no $35,000.
08 vettes are routinely found around 30k actually. I might even be able to step into an 09 and stay in my 35k budget. You can get 06 Z06's for 35k. There is a dealer in Chicago with a 2011 Vette for 38k, although its a complete base model with zero options. There is an 08 locally that is loaded except nav and a glass roof with under 20k miles on it for 35k which I think I could get for 32k. The used vette market is good, but not great. New vettes you can routinely find dealers taking between 15k and 17k off of sticker for cars right off the truck.
Subaru WRX STi. Then get a good stage 2 setup ( probably about 1500-2000 from a pro shop) will put you around 400 hp and 420 tq. Will run low 12s.
I used to own a Subaru shop and drove an 06 STI with a touch over 500whp. I am not really interested in another Subaru after I have owned 3. Plus they are RIDICULOUSLY expensive anymore and not that great for what you pay. They have been outdone by a ton of companies, but I think for 2014 the STI is rumored to have over 400hp.
Is your problem primarily the cold-start rattle and 2,000rpm rattle that sounds like the car is going to explode? Any other problems or is that it?
Nope. I posted in the first post, but I will post again. Problem with the electronic waste gate controller. Most all turbo engines I have ever dealt with ran a spring and a vacuum source to control the position of the wastegate. This car has a little electric motor that moves the wastegate. This electric motor is mounted TO THE TURBO and thus gets VERY hot. Electronics and heat do not go together very well. The motor quits working all the time or loses its adjustment(the arm has to be adjusted to give a 4.0v signal to the computer when the wastegate is closed). When the computer reads the voltage wrong it goes into safe mode and gives you zero boost which is dangerous because this motor wasnt designed to really run without the turbo so its like you have a HUGE restriction in the exhaust. Apparantely Hyundai is aware of the issue and is working on a complete re-design, but who the hell knows how long that will take.
Trip 1 and 2 to the dealer they adjusted the arm from the motor to the wastegate to get the voltage in line. Literally the next day I drove the car(car sat for about a week while I was out of town) and was in boost and bam, no power. Took it to the dealer and they replaced some controller(it says wastegate controller on one thing and boost controller on another). Same thing next time I drove it. Now they have replaced the entire turbo with no fix. So they are waiting to hear from Korea. That was last week.
My attorney says I am within my rights to lemon law the car, but I am going to go to the dealer today and see what they will do for me. If they will simply buy me out of the car at what I owe on it, I will walk away.
Mustang GT.
If you hold off another year, the 50th anniversary redesigned 2015 will be out.
It's widely speculated to look like a fusion coupe, like this mock-up:
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/12/ytatupuj.jpg
Aston-Martin looks, on a budget
Sent from my phone while I was on the toilet pooping
That, would be badass, particularly if they finally put IRS in the car. My top choice right now would be a Boss 302, but that isn't in the OP's price range (nor mine).
ShortytheFirefighter
11-12-12, 12:02
I hear you on the Subaru thing. I've owned 7 of them including 4 WRXs of various years. I ordered a 2011 WRX new and sold it after a year and a half. The interior quality has gone downhill it seems, mine would squeak and rattle over anything bigger than a dime. It drove great, but the interior was killing me. Also, the 02-03 had seats that were great as far as support, but anything after that (including the STI) the seats didn't have any lateral support at all.
You could look at the new EVO X MR, I drove one and thought it was great, but I went a different route for my current daily driver. I went from the WRX to a 2010 Certified Pre-Owned Ford Taurus SHO. It's almost as fast as the WRX was (in everyday driving it'll walk all over one) and has a list of creature comforts a mile long. The best part? Nobody looks twice at it, it's a Taurus. The EcoBoost motor is a great powerplant and for as big as it is, it handles pretty decently. The trunk is big enough that you don't even need to cut up the hookers anymore, just pile them in.
You can get into a lightly optioned one new around 35-40k, and you can find used ones with not a lot of miles for less than that. I found a used 2010 with 8600 miles for 32k in CA.
Nope. I posted in the first post, but I will post again. Problem with the electronic waste gate controller. Most all turbo engines I have ever dealt with ran a spring and a vacuum source to control the position of the wastegate. This car has a little electric motor that moves the wastegate. This electric motor is mounted TO THE TURBO and thus gets VERY hot. Electronics and heat do not go together very well. The motor quits working all the time or loses its adjustment(the arm has to be adjusted to give a 4.0v signal to the computer when the wastegate is closed). When the computer reads the voltage wrong it goes into safe mode and gives you zero boost which is dangerous because this motor wasnt designed to really run without the turbo so its like you have a HUGE restriction in the exhaust. Apparantely Hyundai is aware of the issue and is working on a complete re-design, but who the hell knows how long that will take.
Trip 1 and 2 to the dealer they adjusted the arm from the motor to the wastegate to get the voltage in line. Literally the next day I drove the car(car sat for about a week while I was out of town) and was in boost and bam, no power. Took it to the dealer and they replaced some controller(it says wastegate controller on one thing and boost controller on another). Same thing next time I drove it. Now they have replaced the entire turbo with no fix. So they are waiting to hear from Korea. That was last week.
My attorney says I am within my rights to lemon law the car, but I am going to go to the dealer today and see what they will do for me. If they will simply buy me out of the car at what I owe on it, I will walk away.
I read the first post but what I was looking for here was more symptoms and not possible diagnosis. If they're adjusting your wastegate actuator to 4.0v then that is the first mistake. The adjustments should be between 4.1-4.3v so it's being adjusted out of spec. Also, make sure that your tech is pulling the rod all the way to the driver's side & holding it there before reading the voltage because to me it sounds like someone is reading spec wrong, misreading the manual or applying adjustments inaccurately. There plenty of cars on the road with the exact same wastegate setup that aren't having the issues you describe so it's not a design flaw.
There's a known cold-start rattle or steady RPM related rattle that is a known design flaw but this being remedied with a washer/spring mounted on the actuator connecting rod pivot to take apply tension when the pivot isn't being held with pressure.
Anyway, I thought I would offer a little insight if you wanted the problem addressed but it sounds to me like you're already set on another car.
brickboy240
11-12-12, 12:58
Mustangs and Camaros have horrible resale vaule (...and are for kids).
I have owned 2 3 Series Bimmers....how wealthy are you? The repairs on these cars are beyond anything if you are not used to high end European cars at all.
I'd skip all of those and look at the following:
Lexus IS250'
Infiniti G35
Nissan Maxima
Acura TSX or TL
Volvo S-60
Seriously, these cars have better build quality and higher resale and tend to stay out of the shop more than the others. They still offer some performance as well. Gas mileage is not ban on most of them...another plus.
Seriously...I'd skip the GM and Fords altogether.
-brickboy240
Mustangs and Camaros have horrible resale vaule (...and are for kids).
I have owned 2 3 Series Bimmers....how wealthy are you? The repairs on these cars are beyond anything if you are not used to high end European cars at all.
I'd skip all of those and look at the following:
Lexus IS250'
Infiniti G35
Nissan Maxima
Acura TSX or TL
Volvo S-60
Seriously, these cars have better build quality and higher resale and tend to stay out of the shop more than the others. They still offer some performance as well. Gas mileage is not ban on most of them...another plus.
Seriously...I'd skip the GM and Fords altogether.
-brickboy240
My wife drives a 250. She get's 30+mpg on every tank. However, I find the interior cramped for a 6' person and the power just isn't there. It's fairly nimble and what I would call spirited, but not powerful by any means.
I read the first post but what I was looking for here was more symptoms and not possible diagnosis. If they're adjusting your wastegate actuator to 4.0v then that is the first mistake. The adjustments should be between 4.1-4.3v so it's being adjusted out of spec. Also, make sure that your tech is pulling the rod all the way to the driver's side & holding it there before reading the voltage because to me it sounds like someone is reading spec wrong, misreading the manual or applying adjustments inaccurately. There plenty of cars on the road with the exact same wastegate setup that aren't having the issues you describe so it's not a design flaw.
There's a known cold-start rattle or steady RPM related rattle that is a known design flaw but this being remedied with a washer/spring mounted on the actuator connecting rod pivot to take apply tension when the pivot isn't being held with pressure.
Anyway, I thought I would offer a little insight if you wanted the problem addressed but it sounds to me like you're already set on another car.
Are you a hyundai tech?
Well the. 4.0v was just what I remembered them saying. There were 2 TSB's on setting it and one had a range and the other was a specific voltage. The specific voltage one was the newer of the two.
They adjusted it 2x. The 3rd trip they put a new boost control actuator on it. That didnt work.
They are currently throwing parts at the car and seeing what sticks. They put a new turbo on(including new WG motor) and that didnt fix it, now Hyundai is telling them to put a new ECU in the car, which I dont see fixing it either.
Im not sold on a new car, but I have basically no confidence left in this car that it wont **** up again in a few thousand more miles so even if the "fix it" I will probably get rid of it anyway.
My wife drives a 250. She get's 30+mpg on every tank. However, I find the interior cramped for a 6' person and the power just isn't there. It's fairly nimble and what I would call spirited, but not powerful by any means.
Lexus IS-F is a hot rod version of the 250. It has 416 Horsepower V8 engine, but also gets less than 20 MPH. A two year old goes for over $50,000, while a new one is close to $65K. My buddy has one and scared me to death when he floored the car. I've never been shot out of a catapult, but I bet it felt like one.
brickboy240
11-12-12, 15:53
Build quality is why you buy cars like the Lexus, Infiniti or Acura.
The fact that it will stay together and stay out of the shop....then re-sell for better than the American car. At 100k miles, it will not be leaking oil and have the Check Engine light on and rattle like a diesel like the American cars.
Who cares how fast a car is or how well it corners if it is not BUILT as well?
-brickboy240
Are you a hyundai tech?
Well the. 4.0v was just what I remembered them saying. There were 2 TSB's on setting it and one had a range and the other was a specific voltage. The specific voltage one was the newer of the two.
They adjusted it 2x. The 3rd trip they put a new boost control actuator on it. That didnt work.
They are currently throwing parts at the car and seeing what sticks. They put a new turbo on(including new WG motor) and that didnt fix it, now Hyundai is telling them to put a new ECU in the car, which I dont see fixing it either.
Im not sold on a new car, but I have basically no confidence left in this car that it wont **** up again in a few thousand more miles so even if the "fix it" I will probably get rid of it anyway.
Not a Hyundai tech but I work on and have worked on cars for a couple of decades now and I got one of the new Kia Optima SX turbo's right when they came out. As I'm sure you're aware they share the platform with the Hyundai Sonata. I'm quite familiar with the platform.
Next question; Do you have another Hyundai dealership? It sounds to me like your current shop could be causing more harm than damage. With these newer cars it's easy to much things up if you're an old school ham fisted wrench turner.
Build quality is why you buy cars like the Lexus, Infiniti or Acura.
The fact that it will stay together and stay out of the shop....then re-sell for better than the American car. At 100k miles, it will not be leaking oil and have the Check Engine light on and rattle like a diesel like the American cars.
Who cares how fast a car is or how well it corners if it is not BUILT as well?
-brickboy240
BTW, the new Hyundai Sonata and Kia Optima are built VERY well. I've had mine apart a lot more than most people and can speak first hand to the build quality and over engineering that has gone into this all new platform. OP's situation not withstanding, take everything you know about Hyundai & Kia and throw it out the window. Even then I think it's more of a technician's error than a manufacturer's error.
lethal dose
11-12-12, 18:11
IS300 can be made to be very formidable. Also, the Taurus SHO doesn't fit your every stated need, but is VERY impressive. I'd steer clear of euro sport cars. They are great performers, but nightmarishly expensive to work on... and they WILL need worked on. Clutch plates and throw out bearing on an m3 at the dealership will run you about $2400. Ask me how I know.
IS300 can be made to be very formidable. Also, the Taurus SHO doesn't fit your every stated need, but is VERY impressive. I'd steer clear of euro sport cars. They are great performers, but nightmarishly expensive to work on... and they WILL need worked on. Clutch plates and throw out bearing on an m3 at the dealership will run you about $2400. Ask me how I know.
Yeah if you get a performance Beemer make sure you get one under warranty and then buy the extended warranty. The brakes on my buddies new M3 cost a few thousand dollars. Another buddy has a modded 335i that's out of warranty. An oil change at the dealership is over a hundred bucks and when he does it himself he still pays like 60-70 bucks. They are really nice cars though.
OP I'm surprised you have had problems with the new Subies. All of my friends with new ones love them. My one friend has his 2009 WRX built as a race car that runs great. Actually just came in 2nd recently in a big race and beat a couple pros.
http://www.snailperformance.com/time-attack-team.html
I still think you should try a G37 before you write them off. Maybe the IPL edition.
Not a Hyundai tech but I work on and have worked on cars for a couple of decades now and I got one of the new Kia Optima SX turbo's right when they came out. As I'm sure you're aware they share the platform with the Hyundai Sonata. I'm quite familiar with the platform.
Next question; Do you have another Hyundai dealership? It sounds to me like your current shop could be causing more harm than damage. With these newer cars it's easy to much things up if you're an old school ham fisted wrench turner.
BTW, the new Hyundai Sonata and Kia Optima are built VERY well. I've had mine apart a lot more than most people and can speak first hand to the build quality and over engineering that has gone into this all new platform. OP's situation not withstanding, take everything you know about Hyundai & Kia and throw it out the window. Even then I think it's more of a technician's error than a manufacturer's error.
The dealership I bought it from and that is currently working on it is working with Hyundai Korea at this point on what direction to go in so I honestly dont think going to a different dealer would change anything. Last week after they swapped turbos and it was still going into safe mode and throwing codes they data logged with a lap top and sent it to Korea. Putting the new ECU in is Hyundai Korea's next step. At that point they will have replaced everything according to the service manager. Even he said today when I mentioned the lemon law was "I wouldnt blame you at all, but that is all I can say" which I think would mean if he was called to the arbitrator/court that he wouldnt object to the car being a lemon.
I absolutely love the car and was planning to keep it for a long long time, but after this, we shall see. IF they "fix" it and I get it back you will be damn sure I will flog the ever living shit out of it to see if I can get it **** up again and then my lawyer will be taking the car back to them for sure.
As of today I am still letting them attempt to fix it, but I dont have high hopes.
OP I'm surprised you have had problems with the new Subies. All of my friends with new ones love them. My one friend has his 2009 WRX built as a race car that runs great. Actually just came in 2nd recently in a big race and beat a couple pros.
Never said I had a problem with the new Subaru's, far from it, I think they are fantastic cars and built like tanks. I have owned 3(05 WRX, 06 STI with 500whp, 08 STI). However for what they cost the performance just isnt there. I mean you are talking almost 40k for an STI now and it still has the same 300hp, 6spd, diffs, brakes etc.... that it came with in 2004 when they were released. Maybe in 2014 when the rumored refresh comes up they are talking 400hp for the STI, but 300hp just aint enough to play anymore.
The dealership I bought it from and that is currently working on it is working with Hyundai Korea at this point on what direction to go in so I honestly dont think going to a different dealer would change anything. Last week after they swapped turbos and it was still going into safe mode and throwing codes they data logged with a lap top and sent it to Korea. Putting the new ECU in is Hyundai Korea's next step. At that point they will have replaced everything according to the service manager. Even he said today when I mentioned the lemon law was "I wouldnt blame you at all, but that is all I can say" which I think would mean if he was called to the arbitrator/court that he wouldnt object to the car being a lemon.
I absolutely love the car and was planning to keep it for a long long time, but after this, we shall see. IF they "fix" it and I get it back you will be damn sure I will flog the ever living shit out of it to see if I can get it **** up again and then my lawyer will be taking the car back to them for sure.
As of today I am still letting them attempt to fix it, but I dont have high hopes.
If it were my car I would have been in contact with Kia USA long ago and had my car at another dealership. What do you have to prove that they are contacting Kia other than them saying they are? There are some super shady dealerships out there so you have to watch your back.
Lexus IS-F is a hot rod version of the 250. It has 416 Horsepower V8 engine, but also gets less than 20 MPH. A two year old goes for over $50,000, while a new one is close to $65K. My buddy has one and scared me to death when he floored the car. I've never been shot out of a catapult, but I bet it felt like one.
Yep, I've been in one of those too. That engine is a beauty! Same for the 8 speed in it, which is the fastest shifting auto on the road. However, in that same price range, it would be awfully hard to not consider the Cadillac CTS-V as an alternative.
Yep, I've been in one of those too. That engine is a beauty! Same for the 8 speed in it, which is the fastest shifting auto on the road. However, in that same price range, it would be awfully hard to not consider the Cadillac CTS-V as an alternative.
The ISF Sedan is a great car. I have had the opportunity to drive one and it is fast and handles well. If I were going to purchase a used car that was a high-performance vehicle it would be on my short list. However, finding a recent model for $35K may be a challenge.
I would Lemon-Law the car. Having problems with a car right out of the gate is not inspiring.
If it were my car I would have been in contact with Kia USA long ago and had my car at another dealership. What do you have to prove that they are contacting Kia other than them saying they are? There are some super shady dealerships out there so you have to watch your back.
I am going to call Hyundai today and see what is up as soon as they open. If for nothing else to get a national rep involved and get their name so that I can pass it along to my attorney.
brickboy240
11-13-12, 10:29
Actually I would NOT spend 35k on ANY vehicle. Especially a brand new car.
A brand new car is a total rip off. Drive it off the lot and it loses 30% of its value. Keep it a few years and it is probably worth half of what you paid for it. A brand new car is a total waste of money of you ask me. especially the luxury US made cars...their depreciation rates are scary.
Buy a certified pre owned car with maybe 15-20k on the clock. That way, you get a decent warranty on a car that is barely used and some other moron takes the front end depreciation hit and you buy the car for about 2/3 of what it windowed for brand new.
I did this with two of the wife's Volvos. Paid about 2/3 what a new one cost but got a 6 year 100k mile warranty and cars that had tons of life left.
With the shaky economy today...let some OTHER moron take the front end depreciation hit and you buy the slightly used car and save your money. A car is a terrible place to put a large chunk of your money. Especially with what all is going on in the world right now.
I have always done this and driven some really nice cars but not paid nearly what they were worth. Most had no troubles and I skipped out on the high note as well. I don't work for the banks or finance companies...I work for myself. So does my money.
...something to ponder.
-brickboy240
I am going to call Hyundai today and see what is up as soon as they open. If for nothing else to get a national rep involved and get their name so that I can pass it along to my attorney.
Good thinking. I obviously meant Hyundai USA and not Kia USA.
Actually I would NOT spend 35k on ANY vehicle. Especially a brand new car.
A brand new car is a total rip off. Drive it off the lot and it loses 30% of its value. Keep it a few years and it is probably worth half of what you paid for it. A brand new car is a total waste of money of you ask me. especially the luxury US made cars...their depreciation rates are scary.
Buy a certified pre owned car with maybe 15-20k on the clock. That way, you get a decent warranty on a car that is barely used and some other moron takes the front end depreciation hit and you buy the car for about 2/3 of what it windowed for brand new.
I did this with two of the wife's Volvos. Paid about 2/3 what a new one cost but got a 6 year 100k mile warranty and cars that had tons of life left.
With the shaky economy today...let some OTHER moron take the front end depreciation hit and you buy the slightly used car and save your money. A car is a terrible place to put a large chunk of your money. Especially with what all is going on in the world right now.
I have always done this and driven some really nice cars but not paid nearly what they were worth. Most had no troubles and I skipped out on the high note as well. I don't work for the banks or finance companies...I work for myself. So does my money.
...something to ponder.
-brickboy240
Which is exactly what I did. Late model used and driving a $58K car for under $35K, with the balance of the factory bumper to bumper warranty. With a credit score just North of 800, I got 1.9% for 60 months on a 3 year old low mileage ride with a great reliability rating. At the rate of inflation, it's basically free money. I sold my other car outright along with a couple of other items. Essentially the first 27 months worth of payments are coming from a secure investment that I can draw on. So no money out of pocket and driving a really nice car that I can rely on. Win, win, win! :)
Good thinking. I obviously meant Hyundai USA and not Kia USA.
Just got off the phone with them and they conferenced in with the service manager at the dealership and according to them(hyundai USA) they have all of the proper people involved(he listed about 4 different working groups including the engineers in the US and Korea) and are going down the right path. The service manager is as frustrated as I am and said they are about at the end of their ropes as well trying to deal with it and he is going to call me after they swap the ECU's(working on it right now) and test the car to see what is up. He said if the ECU doesnt fix it he said the dealership would be willing to chat about replacement or buy back without getting an attorney involved. So we shall see how that goes. My attorney told me to deal with them directly as long as possible before going the legal route as then it gets a little sticky.
As of right now if they cant fix it all I want is to be bought out at what I owe on the car and get a document stating I "traded it in" or whatever so I can apply that "value" to the sales tax on the purchase of a new car. I am not really interested in having another Hyundai since none of the others really interest me except a Genesis 5.0, but I dont think they could work the price down far enough to get me into one.
im not opposed to looking at used at all and totally agree with saving the money and what not, however if I end up wanting a Camaro or Mustang I want one exactly how I want it. Plus I get employee price on either which saves a decent amount. Almost everything else I am looking at, used is the way I would be able to afford it.
However right now used cars are still holding their value very well due to the economy and in some cases you can get a new car with some decent discounts for only a couple thousand more than a used car. To me if used is within 2-3k of new, I will buy new every time.
I generally keep my cars for quite a while so I am not so worried about re-sale value.
brickboy240
11-13-12, 11:20
If you keep your cars a long time (like I do) then this is even more reason to skip the Mustang and Camaro.
The build quality and longevity on GM and Ford cars is MUCH shorter than those made by Lexus, Infiniti or Acura.
I don't care how fast the damn thing goes....just as long as it stays away from the shop.
-brickboy240
If you keep your cars a long time (like I do) then this is even more reason to skip the Mustang and Camaro.
The build quality and longevity on GM and Ford cars is MUCH shorter than those made by Lexus, Infiniti or Acura.
I don't care how fast the damn thing goes....just as long as it stays away from the shop.
-brickboy240
From what I am reading on the Camaro forums the new ones are supposedly really well built. If you dont read about a ton of stuff going wrong on the forums its probably a pretty safe bet since most of what you read on the forums is negatives for cars at least.
My buddy has a 2011 Mustang 5.0 and he had to have his transmission replaced, but supposedly it was pretty wide spread and fixed for 2012. Besides that he hasnt had a single issue with his car.
Just got off the phone with them and they conferenced in with the service manager at the dealership and according to them(hyundai USA) they have all of the proper people involved(he listed about 4 different working groups including the engineers in the US and Korea) and are going down the right path. The service manager is as frustrated as I am and said they are about at the end of their ropes as well trying to deal with it and he is going to call me after they swap the ECU's(working on it right now) and test the car to see what is up. He said if the ECU doesnt fix it he said the dealership would be willing to chat about replacement or buy back without getting an attorney involved. So we shall see how that goes. My attorney told me to deal with them directly as long as possible before going the legal route as then it gets a little sticky.
As of right now if they cant fix it all I want is to be bought out at what I owe on the car and get a document stating I "traded it in" or whatever so I can apply that "value" to the sales tax on the purchase of a new car. I am not really interested in having another Hyundai since none of the others really interest me except a Genesis 5.0, but I dont think they could work the price down far enough to get me into one.
At least now you have confirmation and your reaction given all the present information is justifiable. Sounds like you've got all the bases covered and it's nice to know that the dealership is at least working on your behalf. Best of luck.
One last update:
Got my Hyundai back from being "repaired" well basically they threw a bunch of parts at it and it was "fixed", but I didnt trust it to be "fixed" in the long run. They couldnt even tell me what part fixed it since they replaced so much(boost controller, turbo, firewall forward wiring harness, ECU, and something else I am forgetting). So off it went.
Traded it off about 2 hours after I picked it up from the dealership on a 2011 Camaro SS pretty much fully loaded, certified used, 11k miles.
Only got to drive the Camaro home and then to the airport since I had to fly out of town. My Wrangler is normally my airport car, but it is getting a new clutch put in it.
Made out ok financially. Lost a little on the trade(I expected that), but I got almost what the car will bring retail so I was happy with that. Got the Camaro for substantially under my 35k budget so happy with that. Got a 2.79% interest rate on the loan which was pretty fantastic.
And now the obligatory crappy cell phone pic:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v324/rjacobs1/IMG_20121120_182911.jpg
Charcoal Gray?
Killer. :D
Charcoal Gray?
Killer. :D
yea I think thats what its called. I think I am going to get the wheels powder coated flat black, but I might just go cheap and paint them myself at home.
Thinking headers w/high flow cats, cat back exhaust, a vararam intake, and a tune to start. I am researching super chargers.
TacMedic556
11-20-12, 23:02
Get a 1995 Toyota 4runner SR5 with less than 80,000 miles on it. They are out there. Go through and tune and replace whatever you need to. Have a mechanic do it. Radiator, hoses, belts, fuel filter, plugs, wiring harness. Put some BF Goodrich ATs on it, perhaps a 1" lift. Best vehicle I have ever owned.
yea I think thats what its called. I think I am going to get the wheels powder coated flat black, but I might just go cheap and paint them myself at home.
Thinking headers w/high flow cats, cat back exhaust, a vararam intake, and a tune to start. I am researching super chargers.
You can do fine painting them flat black at home. Just wash them, scuff up the surface, wash them again, apply a few coats of primer and a few coats of flat black and let em sit in the sun for a day.
And a super charger? Really? 426bhp isn't enough? :lol:
yea I think thats what its called. I think I am going to get the wheels powder coated flat black, but I might just go cheap and paint them myself at home.
Thinking headers w/high flow cats, cat back exhaust, a vararam intake, and a tune to start. I am researching super chargers.
Guy at work has one with a full exhaust, intake, cam and a tune. Sounds ****ing awesome and it's fast as hell.
And a super charger? Really? 426bhp isn't enough? :lol:
To some of us it's never enough. :)
One last update:
And now the obligatory crappy cell phone pic:
Congratulations on the trade. Hope you will get more out of this vehicle than the previous one.
Now about that cell phone :) You need to get one with a better camera, this is 2012.
Now about that cell phone :) You need to get one with a better camera, this is 2012.
Its a brand new Evo LTE. Its not the camera, its user error. The thing takes great pics, but you can only do so much with a cell phone camera at night in a less than well lit space, especially when you are trying to rush to snap a pic or two.
I will get some better pics on Sunday when I get home from being out of town.
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