View Full Version : Peacefully grant the State of _____ to withdraw from the United States of America
Smuckatelli
11-11-12, 21:02
Texas has the lead so far:
The US continues to suffer economic difficulties stemming from the federal government's neglect to reform domestic and foreign spending. The citizens of the US suffer from blatant abuses of their rights such as the NDAA, the TSA, etc. Given that the state of Texas maintains a balanced budget and is the 15th largest economy in the world, it is practically feasible for Texas to withdraw from the union, and to do so would protect it's citizens' standard of living and re-secure their rights and liberties in accordance with the original ideas and beliefs of our founding fathers which are no longer being reflected by the federal government.
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petitions
Certainly would be amusing to see the conservative and liberal states (populations, to be more precise) separated and observe which half can actually work standalone, not allowed to siphon off the other.
also: Any wagers on how long before they shut down the petition site? :)
Looks like the only thing more powerful than Texas right now is marijuana.
Moose-Knuckle
11-12-12, 03:46
As a proud Texan, at this point I would love to see us become an independent Republic once again.
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/AKS-74/TexasSec.png
I signed every single one of them.
There's no way there'll be a White House response to any of these. I'd bet they're all gone by the end of the day.
Sent from my phone while I was on the toilet pooping
sinlessorrow
11-12-12, 08:29
So what happens when Texas gets invaded by Mexico? Whos gonna help us?
montanadave
11-12-12, 08:46
Didn't we try this before?
As I recall, it ended badly.
And if you have an American flag on any of your shit, take it off.
Texas just might get the number of signatures it needs
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/peacefully-grant-state-texas-withdraw-united-states-america-and-create-its-own-new-government/BmdWCP8B
sinlessorrow
11-12-12, 09:25
Texas just might get the number of signatures it needs
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/peacefully-grant-state-texas-withdraw-united-states-america-and-create-its-own-new-government/BmdWCP8B
God I hope not. What will we do about a military? Do you really think Mexico would just stay where they are?
God I hope not. What will we do about a military? Do you really think Mexico would just stay where they are?
2nd Amendment!
sinlessorrow
11-12-12, 09:30
2nd Amendment!
Because the citizens of texans have the balls to make a rag tag army to face the cartels of mexico.
So what happens when Texas gets invaded by Mexico? Whos gonna help us?
Who needs help?
The Battle of San Jacinto, fought on April 21, 1836, in present-day Harris County, Texas, was the decisive battle of the Texas Revolution.
Led by General Sam Houston, the Texian Army engaged and defeated General Antonio López de Santa Anna's Mexican forces in a fight that lasted just 18 minutes. About 630 of the Mexican soldiers were killed and 730 captured, while only 9 Texians died.
After gaining independence, the Texian Army would be officially known as the Army of the Republic of Texas. In 1846, after the annexation of Texas by the United States, the Army of the Republic of Texas merged with the US Army.
Texas just might get the number of signatures it needs
. . . . To get a response from the White House. Not to secede. Calm down
Sent from my phone while I was on the toilet pooping
sinlessorrow
11-12-12, 10:23
Who needs help?
The Battle of San Jacinto, fought on April 21, 1836, in present-day Harris County, Texas, was the decisive battle of the Texas Revolution.
Led by General Sam Houston, the Texian Army engaged and defeated General Antonio López de Santa Anna's Mexican forces in a fight that lasted just 18 minutes. About 630 of the Mexican soldiers were killed and 730 captured, while only 9 Texians died.
After gaining independence, the Texian Army would be officially known as the Army of the Republic of Texas. In 1846, after the annexation of Texas by the United States, the Army of the Republic of Texas merged with the US Army.
Differen times. The mexican cartels have unlimited funds and any weapon/explosives thy want, we dont. We wouldnt win
Differen times. The mexican cartels have unlimited funds and any weapon/explosives thy want, we dont. We wouldnt win
Your post said invaded by Mexico, not drug cartels. We have already been invaded by drug cartels.
MountainRaven
11-12-12, 10:32
Mexico wouldn't invade Texas. The cartels would just take over.
Nice to see that we're all Americans first, here, not-... oh, nevermind.
I really want to see what they'll respond with if one of them gets to the 25,000 mark. Maybe something funny like
"Seriously folks? C'mon . . . . "
Sent from my phone while I was on the toilet pooping
sinlessorrow
11-12-12, 11:19
Your post said invaded by Mexico, not drug cartels. We have already been invaded by drug cartels.
Then texas would become a war zone within the state, do we really want that?
Didn't we try this before?
As I recall, it ended badly.
And if you have an American flag on any of your shit, take it off.
Like you tell all the Mexicans to do when they come here? :rolleyes:
So what happens when Texas gets invaded by Mexico?
Then it will be just like California.
Unilateral secession violates the Constitution AFAIK. I don't see even the remotest possibility that the US would allow any individual state to secede.
Because the citizens of texans have the balls to make a rag tag army to face the cartels of mexico.
I would say they do. Our Military and Law Enforcement are made up of citizens, after all.
Then texas would become a war zone within the state, do we really want that?
What is the federal government doing to prevent this right now?
Let them leave. Ring Texas with all of the same border controls and ports of entry that we have on our northern and southern borders. Make flying into and out of Texas the same as going to any other international destination, requiring a Passport and in some cases a visa. **** them, no free trade with Texas, make them trade just like Uruguay or Honduras, all of their containers can sit in customs bond in AZ, NM, and OK before being allowed to pass into the U.S. Remove all USG facilities and the jobs they generate from Texas. I'm sure NASA and the Navy have adequate excess facilities in FL, that can absorb what is currently going on in Texas. The current international trade moving through Texas can easily be displaced to other ports, highways, railheads. Who is Texas going to trade with? Mexico? France? Sure that's gonna work. Texas will just revert to being Mexico's northernmost province.
So what happens when Texas gets invaded by Mexico? Whos gonna help us?
Texas has already been invaded by Mexico.
brickboy240
11-12-12, 12:54
Can we leave NOW?
...please?
Seriously....we will not miss most of you.
We have oil refineries, ports, agriculture, medical centers, tech industries and tons of natural resources.
If the rest of you want to be led by Pelosi, Reid, Obama, Boxer, Durbin and turds like this....I say we let you have it.
See you around...hope you make it.
LOL
Can we leave NOW?
...please?
Seriously....we will not miss most of you.
We have oil refineries, ports, agriculture, medical centers, tech industries and tons of natural resources.
If the rest of you want to be led by Pelosi, Reid, Obama, Boxer, Durbin and turds like this....I say we let you have it.
See you around...hope you make it.
LOL
If you want to. Good luck dealing with Al Qaeda fueled cartels. Not just dealing with money motivated drug dealers/smugglers, but also zealots who can't be bought or reasoned with at the same time. That should be fun for you.
Let them leave. Ring Texas with all of the same border controls and ports of entry that we have on our northern and southern borders. Make flying into and out of Texas the same as going to any other international destination, requiring a Passport and in some cases a visa. **** them, no free trade with Texas, make them trade just like Uruguay or Honduras, all of their containers can sit in customs bond in AZ, NM, and OK before being allowed to pass into the U.S. Remove all USG facilities and the jobs they generate from Texas. I'm sure NASA and the Navy have adequate excess facilities in FL, that can absorb what is currently going on in Texas. The current international trade moving through Texas can easily be displaced to other ports, highways, railheads. Who is Texas going to trade with? Mexico? France? Sure that's gonna work. Texas will just revert to being Mexico's northernmost province.
Not that I'm a fan if the whole secession thing, but just where do you suppose you're going to make for the lost refining capacity. Price of gas goes through the roof when 1 refinery goes down. What do you suppose would happen when 20 go off line? The arrogance on both sides of the equation is immense. Like it or not we are joined at the hip and would run into some serious hard times if we tried to tear ourselves apart.
There is no way in hell a peaceful secession is going to happen, not to TX, not to BFE. We tried it once and got a lot of people dead. Don't want to see that happen again. Sorry, but we are stuck with one another till the whole thing comes unglued.
. . . . To get a response from the White House. Not to secede. Calm down
Sent from my phone while I was on the toilet pooping
really? thats a not shit sherlock comment. I'm more entertained by the prospect of what the administration will do. I'm guessing just ignore it since it wasn't from the state legislator and just some random ass citizen.
Smuckatelli
11-12-12, 14:48
Let them leave. Ring Texas with all of the same border controls and ports of entry that we have on our northern and southern borders. Make flying into and out of Texas the same as going to any other international destination, requiring a Passport and in some cases a visa. **** them, no free trade with Texas, make them trade just like Uruguay or Honduras, all of their containers can sit in customs bond in AZ, NM, and OK before being allowed to pass into the U.S. Remove all USG facilities and the jobs they generate from Texas. I'm sure NASA and the Navy have adequate excess facilities in FL, that can absorb what is currently going on in Texas. The current international trade moving through Texas can easily be displaced to other ports, highways, railheads. Who is Texas going to trade with? Mexico? France? Sure that's gonna work. Texas will just revert to being Mexico's northernmost province.
Including Texas, there are 23 state petitions requesting the same. In under three days, Texas already has over 25,000 signatures.
brickboy240
11-12-12, 15:54
Without Texas...America is a 3rd world nation within 5 years.
The jobs and what is left of American prosperity is to be found here...not on either coast.
-brickboy240
Let them leave...
Nobody's going anywhere. Let them have their secession fantasy. It's not hurting anyone.
Without Texas...America is a 3rd world nation within 5 years.
The jobs and what is left of American prosperity is to be found here...not on either coast.
-brickboy240
Yup, the Bakken hasn't done anything for jobs. :rolleyes:
Texas coastal facilities along with their refining ability (approx 30 refineries) will always make them viable, but they aren't the only game in town.
Hell, lets just cut the middle of the country out and leave the fluffy edges to destroy themselves.
Because the citizens of texans have the balls to make a rag tag army to face the cartels of mexico.
Texas has a state guard. Texans would no longer be eligible for the US military, I'm sure a Texas Military would be formed. And of all the borders to cross with an invading army...Texas? There's more than one gun per citizen, they have an industrial capacity to arm themselves, and think of all the soldiers and veterans living in Texas...They have the economic capacity to raise an impressive military for a nation (if they seceded) of their size.
Yup, the Bakken hasn't done anything for jobs. :rolleyes:
Texas coastal facilities along with their refining ability (approx 30 refineries) will always make them viable, but they aren't the only game in town.
Hell, lets just cut the middle of the country out and leave the fluffy edges to destroy themselves.
Bingo.
Nobody's going anywhere. Let them have their secession fantasy. It's not hurting anyone.
fantasy it is. Do they really think all those multinational companies operating there are going to stay there? No, the Texas provisional government would have to nationalize those refineries, then have to establish trade agreements, etc. Providing for the collective defense and welfare is expensive when you are footing the bill all by yourselves, Texas taxes would look positively Northern European. Especially with a northern trade embargo, I think the mood in the remaining union states would be to treat them like Cuba. Do they think buying a couple of dozen used French Mirage fighters for their fledgling air force is going to be cheap to buy and maintain? A standing army to guard their southern border? I think more "Texans" would vote with their feet and leave to remain Americans than would ever be "Free Texans".
Doc Safari
11-12-12, 16:26
This will be laughed at as sour grapes after the election.
Unilateral secession violates the Constitution AFAIK. I don't see even the remotest possibility that the US would allow any individual state to secede.
On what grounds, though? The states formed the federal government, why are they permanently bound to it? It's a contract. There is no clause saying that any given state can't leave.
Texas has a state/national guard. Texans would no longer be eligible for the US military, I'm sure a Texas Military would be formed. And of all the borders to cross with an invading army...Texas? There's more than one gun per citizen, they have an industrial capacity to arm themselves, and think of all the soldiers and veterans living in Texas...They have the economic capacity to raise an impressive military for a nation (if they seceded) of their size.
All of that equipment is the property of the Federal Government, not Texas. In addition, those guardsman are paid for by the federal government, that is a large outlay to replace and fund locally.
Industrial capacity is linked to the ability to trade. If your neighbors won't buy from you, or impose tariffs on your goods, your goods are not competitive.
What I most appreciate about these secession threads, is how they provoke the statists out into the open...
and Now we turn on each other:mad: Here on M4C who would have thought that .Divide the people and the rest will follow .At this day and age why not rise Together? Because of the BS instead of it tearing us apart .and i thought the election was bad :rolleyes:
The economy of Texas is one of the largest and most rapidly growing economies in the United States. As of 2011, Texas is home to six of the top 50 companies on the Fortune 500 list and 51 overall, (third most after New York and California). [9] The Texas economy is the second largest in the nation and the 15th largest in the world based on GDP (nominal) figures. As the largest exporter of goods in the United States, Texas currently [when?] grosses more than $100 billion a year in trade with other nations.
Copied from
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Texas
All of that equipment is the property of the Federal Government, not Texas. In addition, those guardsman are paid for buy the federal government, that is a large outlay to replace and fund locally.
Industrial capacity is linked to the ability to trade. If your neighbors won't buy from you, or impose tariffs on your goods, your goods are not competitive.
I wasn't saying those guardsmen, soldiers, veterans, etc. are in the employ of Texas or any way linked to Texas other than by residence. I was saying they live there, and I'd assume at least some of them would join in the defense of the state, if Texas hypothetically seceded. And the equipment is of course federally owned, I was talking about privately held arms.
I mentioned their industrial and economic capacity because it would allow them to fund and equip an army. Under the assumption they are peacefully seceding and the US remains allied to them (the petition mentioned Texas staying allied with the US), then what grounds for sanctions, tariffs, etc. would there be?
The economy of Texas is so impressively massive, imagine releasing it from the confines of our current federal government and allowing it to live under much more reasonable taxes (as, the hope would be, an independent Texas would levy) and fewer regulations.
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h86/PFC-JB/popcorn.gif
I wasn't saying those guardsmen, soldiers, veterans, etc. are in the employ of Texas or any way linked to Texas other than by residence. I was saying they live there, and I'd assume at least some of them would join in the defense of the state, if Texas hypothetically seceded. And the equipment is of course federally owned, I was talking about privately held arms.
I mentioned their industrial and economic capacity because it would allow them to fund and equip an army. Under the assumption they are peacefully seceding and the US remains allied to them (the petition mentioned Texas staying allied with the US), then what grounds for sanctions, tariffs, etc. would there be?
Are you saying that Texas should have a trade preference over other countries that the United States currently trades with? Our (U.S. ) current international trade agreements would probably preclude this. In terms of "Texas" industrial base, how many of those companies would line up under the U.S. or under Texas? Capital? How much would repatriate to the U.S.? I think there would be a lot of closings of Texas branches, offices, etc. of national and mulitinationals until the dust settled.
Kinda like leaving home at 18 under less than ideal circumstances, better be able to carry your own load or find some roommates.
Are you saying that Texas should have a trade preference over other countries that the United States currently trades with? Our (U.S. ) current international trade agreements would probably preclude this. In terms of "Texas" industrial base, how many of those companies would line up under the U.S. or under Texas? Capital? How much would repatriate to the U.S.? I think there would be a lot of closings of Texas branches, offices, etc. of national and mulitinationals until the dust settled.
Kinda like leaving home at 18 under less than ideal circumstances, better be able to carry your own load or find some roommates.
I'm (partially) operating under the assumption that Texas would be allowed into NAFTA or a similar free trade agreement.
It isn't an easy task, establishing a new nation. I don't have all the answers. But it's been done before, clearly. I believe the business-friendly environment would prevail in Texas. I also have a sneaking suspicion that were they to secede, there might be quite a few states following them along the Rocky mountains/great plains.
ForTehNguyen
11-12-12, 17:54
Unilateral secession violates the Constitution AFAIK. I don't see even the remotest possibility that the US would allow any individual state to secede.
show us in the Constitution where it says the States are forbidden to secede? Not there? Then by default it is a State power by the 9th and 10th Amendments. This country was created through secession, by divorcing ourselves from Great Britain.
What I most appreciate about these secession threads, is how they provoke the statists out into the open...
Jefferson would be proud
Moose-Knuckle
11-12-12, 18:10
What I most appreciate about these secession threads, is how they provoke the statists out into the open...
AND the defeatist. Thank all that is holy my ancestors who fought in the Revolutionary War and the Texas War of Independence didn't share their testical size.
BTT:
White House may respond to Texas secession petition
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/white-house-may-respond-texas-secession-petition-212328772--election.html
"Texas can make it without the United States, but the United States can't make it without Texas." - Sam Houston
show us in the Constitution where it says the States are forbidden to secede? Not there? Then by default it is a State power by the 9th and 10th Amendments. This country was created through secession, by divorcing ourselves from Great Britain.
Yes, it will likely fall to the Supreme Court to decide. They already ruled against it once, likely would again if it ever in a million years it got that far. This will all die down and fall back into the realm of fringe politics, just as it did in California when Bush was elected for a second term.
show us in the Constitution where it says the States are forbidden to secede? Not there? Then by default it is a State power by the 9th and 10th Amendments. This country was created through secession, by divorcing ourselves from Great Britain.
From my layman's view, it seems to fall under contract law...
The states formed the Federal government. The states are therefore parties in a contract. Assuming they fill their contractual obligations, what prevents them from exiting said contract? Where is the clause which regulates that?
If we live under the state government, and government derives its power from us, was created by us, and we live under this government by our consent in a social contract, we are allowed to leave as individuals, to exit that contract. We are allowed to expatriate, by law. Why is a state any different?
The federal government should not be regarded as the creator of anything. The federal government is a creation of the people by way of the states and therefore must remember that it is obligated to respect the states. If state sovereignty was granted respect, we wouldn't be having this discussion, because the president/congress wouldn't have say in jack shit with the exception of foreign policy, border control, currency, infrastructure, and regulating the District of Columbia (to oversimplify, and assuming an originalist interpretation of the constitution's enumerated powers).
JBecker 72
11-12-12, 18:51
http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc37/deb-/Gifs/tumblr_lue0lrAEB21qcysh1o1_500.gif
The states are therefore parties in a contract.
A null & void contract, the federal government has long been in default of its sacred "contractural" obligations to secure the borders, and balance the budget!
The fed, by all rights, should be immediately dissolved, its enablers silenced. Good luck with that...
AND the defeatist. Thank all that is holy my ancestors who fought in the Revolutionary War and the Texas War of Independence didn't share their testical size.
BTT:
White House may respond to Texas secession petition
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/white-house-may-respond-texas-secession-petition-212328772--election.html
Well, so far the only White House news I see is that Obama is considering John Kerry for SecDef (http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/obama-considers-john-kerry-for-job-of-defense-secretary/2012/11/12/8a0e973a-2d02-11e2-a99d-5c4203af7b7a_story.html), which iirc would just be rubbing his ass in the collective face of legit veterans everywhere. Of course at this point it's just Drudge trying to stir things up, but still.
If neighboring states wanted to also leave, would Texas let them join in, or make them create their own country?
I'd also guess all those military bases in Texas would have to pack up and leave too.
Would Texas let those stationed in Texas stay?
If neighboring states wanted to also leave, would Texas let them join in, or make them create their own country?
I'd also guess all those military bases in Texas would have to pack up and leave too.
Would Texas let those stationed in Texas stay?
I'd assume Texas would allow the neighboring states to join in, or at least ally with them to some extent. Little reason not to, aside from pride.
AFAIK, Texas would have to buy back federally owned land (including bases), or simply declare it Texan land and tell the fed to take whatever's not nailed down and GTFO (I like that one)
They'd be making a smart decision to let the troops stay, but I think the troops might be obligated to leave due to each soldier's enlistment documents with the federal government, right? Probably be considered desertion to stay in Texas against orders?
I'd assume Texas would allow the neighboring states to join in, or at least ally with them to some extent. Little reason not to, aside from pride.
AFAIK, Texas would have to buy back federally owned land (including bases), or simply declare it Texan land and tell the fed to take whatever's not nailed down and GTFO (I like that one)
They'd be making a smart decision to let the troops stay, but I think the troops might be obligated to leave due to each soldier's enlistment documents with the federal government, right? Probably be considered desertion to stay in Texas against orders?
Well it'd basically be seeking asylum or something similar.
As a fellow Texan balls to bone, I have to say this is ridiculous. The Texans that could actually live a happy, sustained life if this DID happen probably account for 1% of those signatures. It doesnt matter what our GDP is (as previously stated); its largely that way due to those Texas based multinational companies being so in-bedded with foreign oil conglomerates and world bank CEOs.
Im glad D-towns Tea Party chapter found time in-between Cosmos to go-online and think this could actually pan out. :rolleyes:
On the topic of mexican cartels taking over the state...NO.
What I most appreciate about these secession threads, is how they provoke the statists out into the open...
Yup. Particularly the ones with an affinity for Ché Guevara. :D
Sent from my phone while I was on the toilet pooping
Unilateral secession violates the Constitution AFAIK. I don't see even the remotest possibility that the US would allow any individual state to secede.
As stated, that's not the intent. With 25K signatures, the administration is expected to respond, officially. They don't want to secede, they want the administration on record having to deny it. That's the win.
Let them leave. Ring Texas with all of the same border controls and ports of entry that we have on our northern and southern borders. Make flying into and out of Texas the same as going to any other international destination, requiring a Passport and in some cases a visa. **** them, no free trade with Texas, make them trade just like Uruguay or Honduras, all of their containers can sit in customs bond in AZ, NM, and OK before being allowed to pass into the U.S. Remove all USG facilities and the jobs they generate from Texas. I'm sure NASA and the Navy have adequate excess facilities in FL, that can absorb what is currently going on in Texas. The current international trade moving through Texas can easily be displaced to other ports, highways, railheads. Who is Texas going to trade with? Mexico? France? Sure that's gonna work. Texas will just revert to being Mexico's northernmost province.
Vitriol much? Why would you treat an emerging nation and 15th largest economy in the world that's directly on your southern border as an enemy? Does that work in your favor somehow? If so, please do explain!
As for the rest of your hateful screed, you'd probably find more people lining up to become citizens of Texas that you would the other way around. It's a two way street in case you forgot. And those multinational corporations? They go wherever the money goes. If Texas has it, they'll stay. I do believe their economy is FAR more robust than California's. :D
Let them leave. Ring Texas with all of the same border controls and ports of entry that we have on our northern and southern borders. Make flying into and out of Texas the same as going to any other international destination, requiring a Passport and in some cases a visa. **** them, no free trade with Texas, make them trade just like Uruguay or Honduras, all of their containers can sit in customs bond in AZ, NM, and OK before being allowed to pass into the U.S. Remove all USG facilities and the jobs they generate from Texas. I'm sure NASA and the Navy have adequate excess facilities in FL, that can absorb what is currently going on in Texas. The current international trade moving through Texas can easily be displaced to other ports, highways, railheads. Who is Texas going to trade with? Mexico? France? Sure that's gonna work. Texas will just revert to being Mexico's northernmost province.
Texas will just revert to being Mexico's northernmost province. I think we already are there.......
USA needs The Port of Houston:
The Port of Houston is a port in Houston — the fourth-largest port in the United States. The Port is a 25-mile-long complex of diversified public and private facilities located a few hours' sailing time from the Gulf of Mexico. It is the busiest port in the United States in terms of foreign tonnage, second-busiest in the United States in terms of overall tonnage, and thirteenth-busiest in the world.[2] Though originally the port's terminals were primarily within the Houston city limits, the port has expanded to such a degree that today it has facilities in multiple communities in the surrounding area. In particular the port's busiest terminal, the Barbours Cut Terminal, is located in Morgan's Point.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_of_Houston
USA would be forced to trade with Texas. 8 of the largest 17 oil refinery's are in Texas, but this whole exercise is mental masturbation.
http://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/index.cfm?page=oil_refining#tab4
Texas will never leave the USA for a multitude of reasons. Texas has the wrong demographics for starters. This state is going to be a democrat strong hold soon, and more importantly Texas and Texans are dependent on our neighboring states just like everyone else.
The more important thing we need to do is for us folks that feel the constitution is important to come together and take back this country.
As stated, that's not the intent. With 25K signatures, the administration is expected to respond, officially. They don't want to secede, they want the administration on record having to deny it. That's the win.
I am glad to see someone in this thread that gets it.
Our Gov came out with a response:
Rick Perry says no to Texas secession
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1112/83751.html?hp=r6
Fantasy threads can be fun as long as everyone realizes the fantasy.
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/secission-petitions-filed-20-states-190210006.html
How is it a win that the administration denies the right to secede? Abraham Lincoln (R) said the same thing.
Also thought this was funny:
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/deport-everyone-signed-petition-withdraw-their-state-united-states-america/dmQl1bXL
brickboy240
11-13-12, 10:34
Oh sure....we really need New Mexico and Oklahoma! LOL
Can we leave now?
We'll make it on our own...that much I do know.
The rest of you....well...you voted for it...you enjoy the United Socialist States of Barackotopia!
LOL
How is it a win that the administration denies the right to secede? Abraham Lincoln (R) said the same thing.
Also thought this was funny:
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/deport-everyone-signed-petition-withdraw-their-state-united-states-america/dmQl1bXL
Perhaps you're not looking at it from the right perspective. It's getting the administration on record as having to deny the request. It looks bad that he has to officially respond to that many disgruntled citizens. It's a recognition that they won't make the people happy. Their failed policies are a significant issue. I would also contend that while this looks worst for the administration, it's an abject failure of both parties and all branches of the gov't. How long do you think you (DC political hacks) can keep wrecking our nation without it getting out of hand? :mad:
Ill be in Tx for the Grand Prix this weekend... maybe I should stay lol
So, if Texas were to secede would they adopt a true 2nd Amendment and get rid of all the current BS Federal laws? It'd help level the playing field with the invading hordes of Mexican drug cartel gang members when citizens could go purchase machine guns and suppressors from their local gun store. :dirol:
If we're gonna throw out hypotheticals I'm thinking on the positive side.
The rest of you....well...you voted for it...you enjoy the United Socialist States of Barackotopia!
I should point out that only Utah and Oklahoma were completely RED at the county level in this election. Texas cannot say the same ;) :D
-
Doc Safari
11-13-12, 13:09
"I'll see your request for secession, and I'll raise you a charge of sedition:"
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/wh-petition-calls-stripping-citizenship-and-exile-anyone-who-signs-petition-secede_663282.html
W.H. Petition Calls for Stripping Citizenship and Exile for Anyone Who Signs Petition to Secede
A White House petition gathering force calls for citizenship to be stripped and exile for anyone who signs a petition in favor of a state's secession.
"Mr. President, please sign an executive order such that each American citizen who signed a petition from any state to secede from the USA shall have their citizenship stripped and be peacefully deported," the full petition reads.
Gosh, it's sure looking more and more like 1860 out there.
One side ratchets up, then the other side ratchets up, then the other side....and so on.
So, if Texas were to secede would they adopt a true 2nd Amendment and get rid of all the current BS Federal laws?
We already have it in our State Constitution:
THE TEXAS CONSTITUTION
ARTICLE 1. BILL OF RIGHTS
Sec. 23. RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS. Every citizen shall have the right to keep and bear arms in the lawful defense of himself or the State; but the Legislature shall have power, by law, to regulate the wearing of arms, with a view to prevent crime.
We already have it in our State Constitution:
THE TEXAS CONSTITUTION
ARTICLE 1. BILL OF RIGHTS
Sec. 23. RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS. Every citizen shall have the right to keep and bear arms in the lawful defense of himself or the State; but the Legislature shall have power, by law, to regulate the wearing of arms, with a view to prevent crime.
So the 1934 NFA, 1968 GCA and laws of that nature don't apply in Texas? My point was that it'd be nice to get back to the original intent and not have to deal with "feel good" laws concerning firearms.
I should point out that only Utah and Oklahoma were completely RED at the county level in this election. Texas cannot say the same ;) :D
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Funny, that. Wyoming was red red red, except for that stinky mini-Crapifornia town, Jackson.
So the 1934 NFA, 1968 GCA and laws of that nature don't apply in Texas?
Of course they do, Texas is part of the US.
My point was that it'd be nice to get back to the original intent and not have to deal with "feel good" laws concerning firearms.
I doubt even Texas would go that far. After all, we don't even have open carry. But we are a "shall issue" CC state.
"I'll see your request for secession, and I'll raise you a charge of sedition:"
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/wh-petition-calls-stripping-citizenship-and-exile-anyone-who-signs-petition-secede_663282.html
Gosh, it's sure looking more and more like 1860 out there.
One side ratchets up, then the other side ratchets up, then the other side....and so on.
Hmmm, I was unaware that "leaving" and "rebellion" were synonyms! :)
Doc Safari
11-13-12, 14:41
Hmmm, I was unaware that "leaving" and "rebellion" were synonyms! :)
Glad you picked up on that. That was my subtle way of saying that these people who signed the petition are "tugging on Superman's cape."
I still think the petitions to secede will be laughed at, but I wouldn't put it past this administration to try to trump up some kind of retaliatory response for this.
Glad you picked up on that. That was my subtle way of saying that these people who signed the petition are "tugging on Superman's cape."
I still think the petitions to secede will be laughed at, but I wouldn't put it past this administration to try to trump up some kind of retaliatory response for this.
Valerie Jarrett is on this as we speak! :D
Of course they do, Texas is part of the US.
I believe Congress used the commerce clause to enact the N.F.A. and A.W.B..
This is why Montana, among other states, are challenging the NFA and ATF by saying any weapons made in-state and are only for sale and use in-state are not subject to Federal law, thus allowing silencers and SBRs without involving the ATF, but machine guns are still banned by state law.
I believe it's still going through the legal paces.
Doc Safari
11-13-12, 14:52
Valerie Jarrett is on this as we speak! :D
And the NSA for all we know.
We are entering a very dangerous time.
I have not felt like this since I watched those people burn at the Branch Davidians' compound in Waco in 1993.
I think it's wise to keep a low profile.
I doubt even Texas would go that far. After all, we don't even have open carry. But we are a "shall issue" CC state.
I can always dream. ;)
I am glad to see someone in this thread that gets it.
Our Gov came out with a response:
Rick Perry says no to Texas secession
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1112/83751.html?hp=r6
Fantasy threads can be fun as long as everyone realizes the fantasy.
The problem is some people are already living in their own, very different fantasy.
"I'll see your request for secession, and I'll raise you a charge of sedition:"
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/wh-petition-calls-stripping-citizenship-and-exile-anyone-who-signs-petition-secede_663282.html
Gosh, it's sure looking more and more like 1860 out there.
One side ratchets up, then the other side ratchets up, then the other side....and so on.
Good. The freedom lovers and constitutional patriots have all the guns and training. Bring it.
Good. The freedom lovers and constitutional patriots have all the guns and training. Bring it.
Well...eh.
You're right, but plenty of dumbasses with hunting weapons and sporting shotguns would be lining up with the lib-tards...
I'd rather not have to shoot it out. Waste of goddamn expensive ammo to shoot people who'd starve to death if you just distance yourself from them and stop supporting their untenable, amoral lifestyles of dependence :D
Well...eh.
You're right, but plenty of dumbasses with hunting weapons and sporting shotguns would be lining up with the lib-tards...
I'd rather not have to shoot it out. Waste of goddamn expensive ammo to shoot people who'd starve to death if you just distance yourself from them and stop supporting their untenable, amoral lifestyles of dependence :D
Agreed.
War between the states is a horrible idea. I was basically saying if the statists start it, they'd get their asses handed to them. That's like kicking a bear in the nuts. You better run idiot, you're gonna get it now!
Who needs help?
The Battle of San Jacinto, fought on April 21, 1836, in present-day Harris County, Texas, was the decisive battle of the Texas Revolution.
Led by General Sam Houston, the Texian Army engaged and defeated General Antonio López de Santa Anna's Mexican forces in a fight that lasted just 18 minutes. About 630 of the Mexican soldiers were killed and 730 captured, while only 9 Texians died.
After gaining independence, the Texian Army would be officially known as the Army of the Republic of Texas. In 1846, after the annexation of Texas by the United States, the Army of the Republic of Texas merged with the US Army.
WTF does this have to do with November of 2014?
The European Elite and Bankster Cartel are smiling at the thought of the US breaking apart. Any of you who relish the idea have any idea of the collapsed influence we'd have in he world?
I didn't think so.
Good. The freedom lovers and constitutional patriots have all the guns and training. Bring it.
That's what the south said last time and look where it got them.
Nevada just joined the "movement". Personally I think it's a great way to bring people's frustrations to light. They've gained media attention and hopefully that will bring meaningful dialogue to follow.
13 colonies seceded from Britian and without that we wouldnt be where we're at today as a country. I think most people fully support the secession of states from the Soviet Union/Russian Commonwealth of Independent States as well.
It's in the news for a reason and I completely understand people's frustrations. How long do you sit as a passenger in a speeding car headed towards a cliff before you stomp on the brakes or grab the wheel?
Doc Safari
11-14-12, 09:07
Agreed.
War between the states is a horrible idea. I was basically saying if the statists start it, they'd get their asses handed to them. That's like kicking a bear in the nuts. You better run idiot, you're gonna get it now!
America's international enemies are a lot different now than they were in 1860.
If this country were to descend into chaos now it would simply end up a colony of Russia or China, or Al Qaeda would take advantage of the chaos to finally get those backpack nukes into major US cities.
Add to that the fact that this "cultural diversity" horseshit has basically turned us into the Balkans. If the US comes apart it will fracture like Yugoslavia. Ethnic cleansing, anyone? It's coming.
I'd hate to be a young couple with a newborn in today's America. I think I'd be looking to emigrate to New Zealand or Canada.
Doc Safari
11-14-12, 09:13
13 colonies seceded from Britian and without that we wouldnt be where we're at today as a country. I think most people fully support the secession of states from the Soviet Union/Russian Commonwealth of Independent States as well.
The good news is that those American colonies successfully broke away with only a small percentage of the population being on board with independence. There were a lot of people in the colonies that wanted to remain British.
The bad news is that England had to cross an ocean to protect its investment. Now all the redcoats have to do is send a drone in.
sinlessorrow
11-14-12, 09:18
America's international enemies are a lot different now than they were in 1860.
If this country were to descend into chaos now it would simply end up a colony of Russia or China, or Al Qaeda would take advantage of the chaos to finally get those backpack nukes into major US cities.
Add to that the fact that this "cultural diversity" horseshit has basically turned us into the Balkans. If the US comes apart it will fracture like Yugoslavia. Ethnic cleansing, anyone? It's coming.
I'd hate to be a young couple with a newborn in today's America. I think I'd be looking to emigrate to New Zealand or Canada.
Why is everyone actin like this will go somewhere? Woopdie ****ing doo, they got 50,000 sigs, theres a hell of a lot more people here than 50K. Notto mention this little petition all these states are starting will get them no where.
Doc Safari
11-14-12, 09:29
Why is everyone actin like this will go somewhere? Woopdie ****ing doo, they got 50,000 sigs, theres a hell of a lot more people here than 50K. Notto mention this little petition all these states are starting will get them no where.
Like I said in my first post to this thread, I think this whole thing will be laughed at.
But since people are moving the discussion in a more serious direction...
Like I said in my first post to this thread, I think this whole thing will be laughed at.
But since people are moving the discussion in a more serious direction...
It is being laughed at. The fact that some people here are taking this seriously is making people laugh harder. I'd rather not be seen as an official "gun nut" caricature but some appear to relish it. I'm disappointed we just got our asses kicked in an election and this crap is how we respond. Way to grow the party guys..
Look, I'm not in favor of secession at all. I have no illusions that it would ever happen. However, the news is literally exploding over Benghazi, the sex scandal that it seriously appears Obama was aware of for months before the election, manipulation of the job numbers, possible election fraud in several swing state precincts, absolute malfeasance of the media and a host of other issues such as Congress failing to pass a budget for years. Had all of this been exposed prior to the election, we might well have a different result.
So, what should be off limits in communicating to the political hacks in DC that business as usual is no longer tolerable? Should ANYTHING be off limits? Seriously? I've yet to see anything that produces results, so let's brainstorm exactly what that might be going forward? :mad:
Doc Safari
11-14-12, 10:39
There is one serious aspect to this that everyone should heed.
If you think you can advocate secession by putting your personal information on a White House website, you have to know that personal information will be recorded and remembered forever.
Don't forget the detainment powers of the dot-gov.
Mauser KAR98K
11-14-12, 10:46
Wigh the spending out of control, the inability for the adminstration telling the truth od withholding information prior to an election, massive corruption, and the healthcare law that will hurt businesses and the economy, and consider most of the counrty is red while cities seem to call the shots for the rest of the country, yes this movement needs to be taken seriously. This is the clue that America is truley divided and needs a gut check.
There is one serious aspect to this that everyone should heed.
If you think you can advocate secession by putting your personal information on a White House website, you have to know that personal information will be recorded and remembered forever.
Don't forget the detainment powers of the dot-gov.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/15/7e2y3egu.jpg
I don't know about you guys, but I'm pretty scared. :rolleyes:
All this is is a very angry half of america telling the libs how pissed they/we are. i didn't sign any of em. but i know where they are coming from our country is on a financial spiral towards rock bottom and somebody needs to wake the **** up.
GeorgiaBoy
11-14-12, 11:25
Thoughts?
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/09/02/red-states-are-the-real-welfare-states/
Wigh the spending out of control, the inability for the adminstration telling the truth od withholding information prior to an election, massive corruption, and the healthcare law that will hurt businesses and the economy, and consider most of the counrty is red while cities seem to call the shots for the rest of the country, yes this movement needs to be taken seriously. This is the clue that America is truley divided and needs a gut check.
The animosity between the two factions you list is palpable. There's a complete breakdown of mutual respect and neither side is doing anything to improve the situation.
First, all the social issues need to come off the table at the federal level. We need to retreat to our respective corners, lick our wounds and figure out how to solve these problems at the local and state levels. Second, we need to come together and resolve the major economic and national security issues that we face. This needs to be a fully bi-partisan effort. Currently Obama is planning to come to the table on the fiscal cliff with no concessions whatsoever. That's just stupid. He's got to let go of his socialist agenda long enough to get through this mess. The GOP has to let go of their animmosity and work with the Democrats long enogh to do the same. Both sides need to refrain from inserting poison pills and create some straight forward language that both sides can agree to. They can all work on their various pet projects at some other time in some other vehicle, but this ain't it! :(
Thoughts?
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/09/02/red-states-are-the-real-welfare-states/
First? Where does your state come in on that list? Second? It's a highly partisan article, so the stats could be "massaged". Third, and this is the important part, if red states are so much more fortunate in the divvying of the pie, then why is it the blue states that so vociferously defend said spending?
Do you have answers for those questions?
I'll just point out this one very relative statistic:
Republican states, on average, received $1.46 in federal spending for every tax dollar paid; Democratic states, on average, received $1.16.”
Now I don't know about you, but where I come from, $1 = $1, not $1.46 or $1.16. How do our politicians expect to keep on spending $1.16 or a $1.46 for every $1 they take in? That math doesn't add up.
It doesn't matter who's taking more and who's taking less when everyone is taking more than they give. That should've been stopped a long time ago, regardless of who's getting the most. :(
Thoughts?
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/09/02/red-states-are-the-real-welfare-states/
Most of those tax dollars are the result of absurdly wasteful federally mandated programs. I would be happy to see them go if I never again had to see a person pay for steak using food stamps and drive away in an Escalade.
Thoughts?
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/09/02/red-states-are-the-real-welfare-states/
This is what I posted on that page as a comment:
"This is a totally useless comparison. Not all dollars spent by the Federal government go to "welfare". In some states, like Utah, like 50% of the land is owned by the Feds and it costs money to control and manage that land. Things like military bases are huge costs for the government and has nothing to do with "takers." As is infrastructure. And if you look at where the majority of welfare goes, it is into the urban environment, and if you look at the COUNTY Level election maps, not the state level, you will see most non urban areas are red but most urban areas are Blue. This comparison is faulty and useless."
The comparisons made in the article are useless. Large amounts of money are spent in states that have nothing to do with the "takers" so the base numbers are off. Then, a blue state is not all blue, while a red state is not all red. Look at the county level election maps.
--
The comparisons made in the article are useless. Large amounts of money are spent in states that have nothing to do with the "takers" so the base numbers are off. Then, a blue state is not all blue, while a red state is not all red. Look at the county level election maps.
I would simply echo this. From what I have seen of the current election (not the old one quoted in the article), Romney generally received a majority vote from the suburban and rural areas, and Obama generally received a majority from the urban areas. The big cities drove this election, not the states.
Moose-Knuckle
11-14-12, 16:41
Nevada just joined the "movement". Personally I think it's a great way to bring people's frustrations to light. They've gained media attention and hopefully that will bring meaningful dialogue to follow.
13 colonies seceded from Britian and without that we wouldnt be where we're at today as a country. I think most people fully support the secession of states from the Soviet Union/Russian Commonwealth of Independent States as well.
It's in the news for a reason and I completely understand people's frustrations. How long do you sit as a passenger in a speeding car headed towards a cliff before you stomp on the brakes or grab the wheel?
Great post, couldn't have said it better. Good to see you posting here again.
Wigh the spending out of control, the inability for the adminstration telling the truth od withholding information prior to an election, massive corruption, and the healthcare law that will hurt businesses and the economy, and consider most of the counrty is red while cities seem to call the shots for the rest of the country, yes this movement needs to be taken seriously. This is the clue that America is truley divided and needs a gut check.
Another great post. At least some "get it".
All this is is a very angry half of america telling the libs how pissed they/we are. i didn't sign any of em. but i know where they are coming from our country is on a financial spiral towards rock bottom and somebody needs to wake the **** up.
Yeap, something is going to give.
RogerinTPA
11-14-12, 18:18
As of yesterday, all 50 states have a similar secession petition up on the White House web site. Leading the pack is all the southern red states. It made me laugh at the thought that I could quite possibly be living in a future southern confederacy. Although POTUS and Co. are laughing there asses off, and continue to ruin this country at will, this has to be the strongest message yet to the current administration that over have the country is pretty pissed off.
GeorgiaBoy
11-14-12, 18:25
If Romney would have won, it would be the same exact situation.
I don't know if a candidate exists that could draw support from everyone.
Someone is always going to be UNHAPPY.
So what happens when Texas gets invaded by Mexico? Whos gonna help us?Who ****ing cares about Mexico. TX would be one of the most powerful countries in the World. Of course there's zero chance of TX going anywhere but if we're going to talk fantasy lets do it with some ****ing sense.
RogerinTPA
11-14-12, 20:00
If Romney would have won, it would be the same exact situation.
I don't know if a candidate exists that could draw support from everyone.
Someone is always going to be UNHAPPY.
With the inner city Dems, I would have taken them at their collective word in doing some rioting and looting... Hopefully they would have thought it through and not destroyed there own communities like the race riots of the 60's. Their very existence depends on suckling on the government tit. I don't see the logic for them to do it, for if they did, they'd quickly relent once their current government check ran out. A republican 'nation' would survive, thrive and hold there own. A Democrat nation would not and would quickly collapse without Republican taxes to support and sustain it. Just my observation, but I cannot ever recall a period in our nation's history since the war of independence, where many states, let alone all 50 of them wanted to secede from the US. Perhaps it is simply a convenience of the internet ala social media, that makes it so visible in this day and age...
Moose-Knuckle
11-14-12, 20:10
Someone is always going to be UNHAPPY.
Unhappy is when your favorite team loses the big game or your wife isn't putting out.
GeorgiaBoy
11-14-12, 20:49
Unhappy is when your favorite team loses the big game or your wife isn't putting out.
What do you call it?
With the inner city Dems, I would have taken them at their collective word in doing some rioting and looting... Hopefully they would have thought it through and not destroyed there own communities like the race riots of the 60's. Their very existence depends on suckling on the government tit. I don't see the logic for them to do it, for if they did, they'd quickly relent once their current government check ran out. A republican 'nation' would survive, thrive and hold there own. A Democrat nation would not and would quickly collapse without Republican taxes to support and sustain it. Just my observation, but I cannot ever recall a period in our nation's history since the war of independence, where many states, let alone all 50 of them wanted to secede from the US. Perhaps it is simply a convenience of the internet ala social media, that makes it so visible in this day and age...
Most people don't really want to secede, they're just pissed. We won't see any secession (at least at current paces/conditions) because we don't face sectionalism anymore. Without polarizing issues like slavery which divide regionally, we don't usually see states pitted against one another. And whenever any given industry is targeted with a government regulation, generally that industry fails to make enough noise to save themselves, and consequentially get shafted.
Now, you get sectional with your federal policy as opposed to dividing the classes and races, you start breaking up the nation. Of course, we now live in an America where people don't feel any affinity (most of the time) to their individual state or region (unless you're talking deep south and Texas obviously). They care about the fed, because they don't know jack shit about their state policies/government. Utterly back ****ing ass-wards, far as I'm concerned.
Moose-Knuckle
11-14-12, 21:31
What do you call it?
Enraged and concerned . . . :fie:
Belmont31R
11-15-12, 17:46
I hope no one with a clearance, or anyone with hopes of getting one put their name (or posted about it here) on that garbage.
Doc Safari
11-15-12, 17:49
I hope no one with a clearance, or anyone with hopes of getting one put their name...on that garbage.
...Or at least if you did, you signed your name "Alex Jones."
:jester:
I hope no one with a clearance, or anyone with hopes of getting one put their name (or posted about it here) on that garbage.
You really think there will be repercussions for that?
Belmont31R
11-15-12, 17:58
You really think there will be repercussions for that?
Yes. They have nothing better to do.
Yes. They have nothing better to do.
I disagree. That would be a blatant attack on free speech. They'd catch too much flak for going after petition signers period, clearance or no.
I am not Sure about it:confused: So I would not put my name down trying to get into Government contracts with trucking I have had a mega background check done(they checked all the way back to when i applied for my social security Card ) and applying for a TWIC card (gets you into ports and other areas) and a Hazmat endorsement (background check and finger prints ) you never Know if your name could pop up on some list .
Not saying it will but if they got a wild hair up their ass it is there for them to get the info
Sort of like the prepper shows ATF or someone else sees or thinks they see something you got WACO all over again .
with this POTUS you just Never Know :no:
Belmont31R
11-15-12, 19:06
I disagree. That would be a blatant attack on free speech. They'd catch too much flak for going after petition signers period, clearance or no.
Nope. Even as a libertarian, if I were them, I would put every single person who signed it on my list. But thats why Im not them.
Moose-Knuckle
11-15-12, 19:08
*cough* * *cough*
“After we win this election, it’s our turn. Payback time. Everyone not with us is against us and they better be ready because we don’t forget. The ones who helped us will be rewarded, the ones who opposed us will get what they deserve. There is going to be hell to pay."
- Valerie Jarret
a new one has been drafted to impeach Obama reached over 30,000 in under 5 days signatures from all 50 states
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/we-request-obama-be-impeached-following-reasons/cpk4V6zK
in the time it took me to post this 50 more names were added
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