View Full Version : AZ checkpoint targeting gun owners and searching their cars ! your thoughts ?
hmmm so this on a off road forum I am on
Drivers were quizzed about their shooting habits and had their vehicles searched by Forest and National Park rangers at a checkpoint in Redington Pass, Arizona this past weekend.
http://www.kvoa.com/news/drivers-go-through-checkpoint-at-redington-pass/#!prettyPhoto/0/
edited to show new link to the news site since people saw the link and figured conspiracy this did happen :)
curious what they would have done if you said NO you cant see inside my car and none of your business what I have and am shooting and you have no right to ! are you detaining me or am I free to go !
what would be best to say ?
to me its a starting point of trying to make this a normal think and make you comply to things that they really do not have the right to ask or search !
30 cal slut
11-12-12, 21:09
I read on TOS that they want the litterbugs to police the brass.
Nothing wrong with that.
I read on TOS that they want the litterbugs to police the brass.
Nothing wrong with that.
not OK post signs pick up your mess thats all they should do
IMHO not road blocks and forced searches !
sadly the nothing wrong with that crowd seems to like the softening of the constitution and IMHO warming you up to the idea that road blocks and mandatory searches are OK and within their limits and folks will just say OK nothing wrong with that !
Belmont31R
11-12-12, 22:18
Is that some sort of restricted access aka you need a permit or some other use fee type thing to use? Wouldn't think Fed/Natl Park Rangers would be out there otherwise. If that is the case there's probably some sort of clause about giving up your right's to use the area.
nope its not a restricted space
not sure if its state or open federal land
I know some of the off road folks think its wrong to be doing this and some others ?
+1 on the dubious source. However, if it's actually happening as described, the correct response would be to POLITELY decline any warrantless search and to answer any questions. Refusal of these points is not reasonable suspicion to detain. They may hold you for a drug sniff, but even that is limited to only that time which is reasonable to get the dog on scene.
Straight Shooter
11-12-12, 23:34
A lot of "gun owners"...ESPECIALLY the younger ones, are our own worst enemy. They literally TRASH gun ranges with the most off the wall shit they use for "targets". Let alone their unspeakable lack of training or safety habits. Ive gotten into near fistfights over it. I have NO PROBLEM with them being fined, and/or made to pick up their shit. These sideways shooting ****s give us a bad name, and we dont need NO more help with that. I despise going to our range this time of year due to the "deer gun sighting in" going on. ****in hell.:mad:
As for "infowars"...what a ****tard that guy is. The SUN COMING UP is a conspiracy to this douche.
Also..it was Federal land they were on, and it was TRASHED with shooter litter. Its THAT SHIT that get ranges closed. Saw the video...I saw nothing wrong with what was going on, and the officers were TOO POLITE, imo.
who cares if it came from infowars or other site ? it was a real thing that was happening ? check the other links about it etc..
guess these days these kinda things are OK with folks :)
yes people trash areas that is why off road groups do lots of clean ups ! its not just shooters its diapers ? guess we should blame out of town babies now to !
its trash in general I wont leave 223 brass laying around then again when we go out we usually clean up more than we even left
fact is I cant believe some dont care about stuff like this that much ?
so guess then when you start going out to places and you are stopped and searched you all are OK with it ? I really find that odd so many are OK
I am not against police or laws etc.. but am more against road blocks searches and stuff
+1 on the dubious source. However, if it's actually happening as described, the correct response would be to POLITELY decline any warrantless search and to answer any questions. Refusal of these points is not reasonable suspicion to detain. They may hold you for a drug sniff, but even that is limited to only that time which is reasonable to get the dog on scene.
They can't hold you to do a sniff unless they have a reason to suspect you have drugs. Drug checkpoints are illegal. And they weren't searching cars at this checkpoint.
I recently told the USBP to pound sand at a checkpoint and I was told to carry on. Anyone who allows a warrantless search of their vehicle is an idiot in my opinion.
+1 on the dubious source. However, if it's actually happening as described, the correct response would be to POLITELY decline any warrantless search and to answer any questions. Refusal of these points is not reasonable suspicion to detain. They may hold you for a drug sniff, but even that is limited to only that time which is reasonable to get the dog on scene.
Straight Shooter
11-13-12, 01:52
Honu-
I CARE whether or not it comes from places like "infowars". That website, and the nut who runs it, is no different to me than crap like Coast to Coast or such tripe. EVERYTHING aint a ****in conspiracy.
Secondly- "off-road groups do a lot of clean-up". NEVER HEARD OF IT. NONE in as big as area as you can cover around here, period. One or two groups around the country....AINT everywhere.
And the trash shown WASNT diapers..it was shotshells, brass, shot up tv's and monitors, and other hillybilly assed "targets".
The cops werent anywhere else EXCEPT at the entrance/exit to a shooting range on federal land.
YES...when I start "going out places" other than a gun range on federal land, and I start seeing roadblocks & searches, yes Ill be concered. AS IT IS IN THIS SPECIFIC CASE, it is hysterics, & much ado about nothing, as is EVERYTHING ELSE "infowars" & Alex Jones perpetrates.
ummm OK I am saying when we go off road I see more diapers beer bottles other trash than I do brass !
or as you say hillbilly trash :) good word for it !
not saying in this video in general ! yet they dont seem to do these stops at those other rec areas where guys go in ATVs etc...
instead one where people mostly go to shoot ! they asked the guy for brass ? did they ask OK what food products did you bring out and where is the trash for those !!! or what were you shooting target wise did you bring those back out with you etc..
NOPE it was about GUNS ! strange really
dont know where you are ? here in PHX our group cleans up all the time when we go out even small areas picking up crap and packing it back out
we also have organized clean ups in some areas
a lot of off road guys here are gun guys yet pick up more than they go out with :)
here is a example of a organized clean up
http://www.azlro.org/about/388-2011-four-peaks-sugarloaf-cleanup-sponsored-by-copperstate-4-wheelers
great groups police come out rangers come out lots of off road clubs come out etc..
know a lot of other groups all over that do clean ups ? most likely you are not a off road guy in any kinda group so maybe no clue they are going on ? or could be you live in a area where most dont care ? but around here where this was the off road guys are responsible :) kinda like Utah and AZ are HUGE off road states :)
I am not saying some shooters leave a mess but I know just redneck party types leave a lot of trash also and again this was not about trash it was about guns and packing back out brass and not other stuff like what they were shooting or consuming food wise etc. and that trash !
then I should have posted the news site link ? would that have made you think its all about nothing ? KVOA ?
http://www.kvoa.com/news/drivers-go-through-checkpoint-at-redington-pass/#!prettyPhoto/0/
or would you still say the same conspiracy stuff
and these kinda things have to start somewhere and in a state like AZ where it seems the big DC gov does not like AZ to much great place to start this kinda stuff
and never said its happening everywhere etc.. just happened here ! and wonder if we will see more of it !
so you are saying ONLY if you see it you are concerned ! but not if its in other states where it did happen? to me does not matter what state its in just seems a bit targeted IMHO
Honu-
I CARE whether or not it comes from places like "infowars". That website, and the nut who runs it, is no different to me than crap like Coast to Coast or such tripe. EVERYTHING aint a ****in conspiracy.
Secondly- "off-road groups do a lot of clean-up". NEVER HEARD OF IT. NONE in as big as area as you can cover around here, period. One or two groups around the country....AINT everywhere.
And the trash shown WASNT diapers..it was shotshells, brass, shot up tv's and monitors, and other hillybilly assed "targets".
The cops werent anywhere else EXCEPT at the entrance/exit to a shooting range on federal land.
YES...when I start "going out places" other than a gun range on federal land, and I start seeing roadblocks & searches, yes Ill be concered. AS IT IS IN THIS SPECIFIC CASE, it is hysterics, & much ado about nothing, as is EVERYTHING ELSE "infowars" & Alex Jones perpetrates.
Honu-
I CARE whether or not it comes from places like "infowars". That website, and the nut who runs it, is no different to me than crap like Coast to Coast or such tripe. EVERYTHING aint a ****in conspiracy.
I partially agree.
No hurricane, no plane crash, no economic downturn, no terrorist attack, no earthquake, no surveillance technology, no election shenanigans happen without direct involvement by "they", or "the globalists". It's obnoxious. If they'd stick to things they can prove, they'd have more readers.
But infowars can't be written off completely either, as I've seen them break some really juicy stories as well. And sometimes, yes, globalists DO **** with things like the economy or false flag attacks. So if you're going to read their stuff, you have to turn on your BS detector to 11. But you have to turn your BS detector to 11 to read Fox or CNN or AP or NYT or Washington Post too.
Sent from my phone while I was on the toilet pooping
I have had the TX DPS pull me over in South TX for no infraction and then ask if I had any weapons in the vehicle and I said, "yes, I am going hunting". They asked if they could see them and run the serial #s to see if they were stolen and I said, "NO!" They then said that is fine but we will then need to do a drug inspection with drug dogs and that means you will have to wait here until the dogs arrive and that will most likely be this afternoon or evening (it was early morning) or you can just let us do the guns now. :mad: We were driving a nice SUV, both clean cut, dressed for quail hunting and had licenses.
Here was my quandary... I had a lease on the King Ranch ($$$$) to hunt quail and this was the only 2 days I was going to get use it. I had also hired my dog trainer and his assistant and their dog truck and extra dogs ($$$$)and had just driven from Austin and had friends and family waiting at the lease for us to unlock the gate... etc. you get the idea and now I am going to throw all that away just to refuse on principle and probably have them do a false positive for drugs later anyway so they can get their search & my serial #s and involuntarily register my guns anyway... hhhhm... I caved in and they laid out several shotguns, pistols and 22 rifles on the side of the highway and called in all my serial #s and took their sweet time doing it. If I could do it over I would have said screw you and I regret it, regret it, regret it to this day.
Why would they call them in when all they have to do is enter the serial number into the NCIC database?
I have had the TX DPS pull me over in South TX for no infraction and then ask if I had any weapons in the vehicle and I said, "yes, I am going hunting". They asked if they could see them and run the serial #s to see if they were stolen and I said, "NO!" They then said that is fine but we will then need to do a drug inspection with drug dogs and that means you will have to wait here until the dogs arrive and that will most likely be this afternoon or evening (it was early morning) or you can just let us do the guns now. :mad: We were driving a nice SUV, both clean cut, dressed for quail hunting and had licenses.
Here was my quandary... I had a lease on the King Ranch ($$$$) to hunt quail and this was the only 2 days I was going to get use it. I had also hired my dog trainer and his assistant and their dog truck and extra dogs ($$$$)and had just driven from Austin and had friends and family waiting at the lease for us to unlock the gate... etc. you get the idea and now I am going to throw all that away just to refuse on principle and probably have them do a false positive for drugs later anyway so they can get their search & my serial #s and involuntarily register my guns anyway... hhhhm... I caved in and they laid out several shotguns, pistols and 22 rifles on the side of the highway and called in all my serial #s and took their sweet time doing it. If I could do it over I would have said screw you and I regret it, regret it, regret it to this day.
Why would they call them in when all they have to do is enter the serial number into the NCIC database?
No computers/slow computers in patrol car. OR, just to waste his time
Sent from my phone while I was on the toilet pooping
Business_Casual
11-13-12, 06:17
I have had the TX DPS pull me over in South TX for no infraction and then ask if I had any weapons in the vehicle and I said, "yes, I am going hunting". They asked if they could see them and run the serial #s to see if they were stolen and I said, "NO!" They then said that is fine but we will then need to do a drug inspection with drug dogs and that means you will have to wait here until the dogs arrive and that will most likely be this afternoon or evening (it was early morning) or you can just let us do the guns now. :mad: We were driving a nice SUV, both clean cut, dressed for quail hunting and had licenses.
Here was my quandary... I had a lease on the King Ranch ($$$$) to hunt quail and this was the only 2 days I was going to get use it. I had also hired my dog trainer and his assistant and their dog truck and extra dogs ($$$$)and had just driven from Austin and had friends and family waiting at the lease for us to unlock the gate... etc. you get the idea and now I am going to throw all that away just to refuse on principle and probably have them do a false positive for drugs later anyway so they can get their search & my serial #s and involuntarily register my guns anyway... hhhhm... I caved in and they laid out several shotguns, pistols and 22 rifles on the side of the highway and called in all my serial #s and took their sweet time doing it. If I could do it over I would have said screw you and I regret it, regret it, regret it to this day.
A little bit of America died that day.
bc
I'd have told then to pound sand.
It would have started badly for me and ended badly for them.
brickboy240
11-13-12, 10:31
Total violation of your 4th amendment rights.
Do not submit to a search like that...ever.
-brickboy240
I have had the TX DPS pull me over in South TX for no infraction and then ask if I had any weapons in the vehicle and I said, "yes, I am going hunting". They asked if they could see them and run the serial #s to see if they were stolen and I said, "NO!" They then said that is fine but we will then need to do a drug inspection with drug dogs and that means you will have to wait here until the dogs arrive and that will most likely be this afternoon or evening (it was early morning) or you can just let us do the guns now. :mad: We were driving a nice SUV, both clean cut, dressed for quail hunting and had licenses.
Here was my quandary... I had a lease on the King Ranch ($$$$) to hunt quail and this was the only 2 days I was going to get use it. I had also hired my dog trainer and his assistant and their dog truck and extra dogs ($$$$)and had just driven from Austin and had friends and family waiting at the lease for us to unlock the gate... etc. you get the idea and now I am going to throw all that away just to refuse on principle and probably have them do a false positive for drugs later anyway so they can get their search & my serial #s and involuntarily register my guns anyway... hhhhm... I caved in and they laid out several shotguns, pistols and 22 rifles on the side of the highway and called in all my serial #s and took their sweet time doing it. If I could do it over I would have said screw you and I regret it, regret it, regret it to this day.
Did you file a formal complaint? If not, shame on you. Why did you answer the question about the guns in the first place? The correct answer is "Nunya...). As for the timeline on a drug dog, that's false. They cannot hold you for a sniff any longer than it takes to get a dog there, for example, from one end of the county to the other is 45 minutes, they have 45 minutes. If a dog isn't available to respond, they MUST let you go. If they don't, it's an illegal detention and violation of your rights. Sure, you have to prove that but even a lease on the King Ranch is worht the time. You can file for damages if necessary.
If you had pushed the issue, they'd have ultimately caved, unless they could've had a dog on site pronto. I'm very pro-LE, but some of this shit is out of hand.
I'm very pro-LE, but some of this shit is out of hand.
ditto !
nineteenkilo
11-13-12, 13:31
The correct answer is:
**** you very much and have a good day unless you have a warrant and/or charges to levy against me.
I'm pro-LE as well.
Did you file a formal complaint? If not, shame on you. Why did you answer the question about the guns in the first place? The correct answer is "Nunya...). As for the timeline on a drug dog, that's false. They cannot hold you for a sniff any longer than it takes to get a dog there, for example, from one end of the county to the other is 45 minutes, they have 45 minutes. If a dog isn't available to respond, they MUST let you go. If they don't, it's an illegal detention and violation of your rights. Sure, you have to prove that but even a lease on the King Ranch is worht the time. You can file for damages if necessary.
If you had pushed the issue, they'd have ultimately caved, unless they could've had a dog on site pronto. I'm very pro-LE, but some of this shit is out of hand.
Your perception is only accurate on paper, it is pure fantasy on the side of the highway. This also happened back in the mid 90's when I wasn't as switched on or sensitive about it as I am today.
Weird thing was back then depending who you were guns on the border were not a big deal. One old rancher I worked for occasionally who was a big wheel on both sides of the border when we crossed the border he would have rifles in his gun rack in the window and no one bothered him. When I crossed the border they had lock boxes for your guns or valuables and I'd lock up my guns at the Border Checkpoint and pickem up in the way back. I doubt they do that today. Those DPS Troopers that day knew we did not have stolen guns or drugs they were just registering people's guns because they could.
Your perception is only accurate on paper, it is pure fantasy on the side of the highway. This also happened back in the mid 90's when I wasn't as switched on or sensitive about it as I am today.
Weird thing was back then depending who you were guns on the border were not a big deal. One old rancher I worked for occasionally who was a big wheel on both sides of the border when we crossed the border he would have rifles in his gun rack in the window and no one bothered him. When I crossed the border they had lock boxes for your guns or valuables and I'd lock up my guns at the Border Checkpoint and pickem up in the way back. I doubt they do that today. Those DPS Troopers that day knew we did not have stolen guns or drugs they were just registering people's guns because they could.
I'll take that as a no. :)
Asking people to police their brass is one thing but running ID for warrants and unconstitutional searches at a check point is a completely different ball of wax.
Forest rangers arrested 4 people for outstanding warrants.
Officers gave 11 citations including marijuana possession, underage drinking and an illegally killed deer.
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