Is this nuts? What I was told re. Micro v. CompM4s [Archive]

View Full Version : Is this nuts? What I was told re. Micro v. CompM4s

ptmccain

11-13-12, 17:50

I was talking to a guy who works for a reseller of optics.

He said something that didn't sound legit, but I'd thought I'd put it out here for response.

He said that he would not recommend using a Micro T1 on an assault rifle, like the M4, because it's field of view is more narrow than a Comp M4 and it would not provide as easy an acquisition of targets as the CompM4.

He said he would use it on a pistol, not a rifle.

At that point I was thinking, "Dude, I doubt you have a clue what you are talking about."

Was I correct?

What do you think?

hec912

11-13-12, 17:55

:no::no:

Skyyr

11-13-12, 18:04

If he's using it incorrectly, as a scope/with one eye closed, then yes, it would be true. The correct way is with both eyes open (as you probably know), which should not functionally affect field of vision or target acquisition.

I only mention that because a lot of people (with good intentions) misunderstand how to use optics (and other weapon and optic systems in general) and relay bad information, even with the best of intentions.

lethal dose

11-13-12, 18:08

He's clearly a wanker.

ZX672

11-13-12, 18:10

It took me a while (couple of mags) to transition from my CompM3 to my current T1 setup. It all comes down to preference, he probably just came across as arrogant....

ptmccain

11-13-12, 18:46

No, not at all. He was very sincere and genuine and not arrogant at all, and I listened politely and thanked him for his time. There was nothing about his comments that screamed "gun shop employee!"

If you know what I mean.

I'm probably going with the CompM4S anyway since I really need an optic that I can leave on for eight years without worrying about changing the battery.

:happy:

Koshinn

11-13-12, 19:11

Apricotshot

11-13-12, 19:21

Sounds like he never tried it himself or he had the sight out way too forward.

ptmccain

11-13-12, 19:51

I'd still change it every year. It's only a AA battery.

Definitely.

markm

11-13-12, 19:58

I'm probably going with the CompM4S anyway since I really need an optic that I can leave on for eight years without worrying about changing the battery.

The compm4 will have a rotten alkaline battery much sooner than that. This happened to Pappabears Comp M4. I caught it before the damage was serious.

BufordTJustice

11-13-12, 20:04

The compm4 will have a rotten alkaline battery much sooner than that. This happened to Pappabears Comp M4. I caught it before the damage was serious.

Yep. A high quality lithium MAY last 8 years. A micro is good for 5.

I don't envision a scenario where that extra three years will make a diff for you, bud. ;)

The good news is that they are both good optics. I personally prefer the micro and the problems the gun store employee explained to you are imaginary. However, you may prefer the m4s for other reasons.

My micro t1 with larue lt660 weighs less than the mount for a comp m3.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

copenhagen2001

11-13-12, 20:14

hec912

11-13-12, 20:17

I would love to hear his take on iron sights

FDFenn

11-14-12, 18:50

Those heavy old thangs?

No, no, no, no...I said, "Now lookey here, boy, I said, lookey here! What you really want are some o' these fine, alū-min-ium peep sights, shaped like a matchstick."

(Use your best Foghorn Leghorn voice)

I had an Comp ML3 with LaRue Mount and now I have the T1 with a LaRue LT660 mount. I definitely think it is user preference.

Decidedly bigger and more 'robust' (any) "Comp M" RD Scope would probably fare better in the hands of a soldier (God bless all of them/you) during their 'work day;' although a Vickers Video showed a T1 taking outrageous abuse on top of a BCM (?) M4! Seriously strong, too!

I simply prefer the lighter T1 with the 2MOA dot on either an AD or an L-T mount (only experienced with these 2 brands).

Then again, I'm just an idiot disguised as a Floridian Voter! :secret:

a0cake

11-14-12, 19:03

FOV is obviously not a concern with a RDS because both eyes are kept open, so he's dead wrong with that terminology, as well as with the recommendation to keep the Micros off rifles.

But there is some truth to the idea that acquiring a sight picture, especially from awkward firing positions, can be somewhat more difficult with the smaller diameter Aimpoint Micro tubes. The CompM4 allows your eye to be further from the centerline of the optic while still seeing the red dot. This is not a major concern and can be overcome with training and a consistent cheek-weld.

So while there is a small amount of truth in what he was trying and failing to convey, his conclusion about which sights go on which weapons is just bogus.

JSantoro

11-14-12, 19:22

But there is some truth to the idea that acquiring a sight picture, especially from awkward firing positions, can be somewhat more difficult with the smaller diameter Aimpoint Micro tubes.

That's literally the ONLY reason I manage to not fall the the floor, frothing at the mouth whenever I read somebody pissing and moaning about "FOV" with these devices.

a0's got it: SOME truth, but it's blown way out of proportion in terms of application...

Not unlike the idea of "parallax-free" taken as a stand-alone technical statement, when the reality is better described as "...as parallax-free as such a thing can be designed/made to be..." when talking about the same sort of device. It's easier to just abridge the statement for the sake of saving ink on a pamphlet or other advertisement, knowing that nobody'll want to actually look up what parallax actually IS, and learn how it works.

PT, he's less wrong than he is looking at an elephant through a hole in a fence, is describing what he sees, and doesn't know know that there's more to see...

Victor

11-14-12, 19:48

Jsantoro and aOcake speak of valid points. Coming from a PURE NV aspect, an EO FOV does come into play with less body housing obstruction when a PVS-14 is mounted behind it vs. AP's.

There is also issues using a T1 with a PVS-14 3x magnifier screwed into it's lens causing some POA/POI issues stemming from F/Stops and lens size issues while looking through the T1. This does not happen with EO's. This is ONLY an issue with 3x PVS-14 magnifiers and NOT day magnifiers of AP or EO magnifiers.

Obviously the most effective way to use the 14 is to mount the 14 to your melon, place an IR laser on your shooting stick and let your laser do all the talking. But some hunters and others who want to remain totally passive, take the 14 on the gun approach. :-)

Vic

markm

11-15-12, 06:53

I've tried them all. The T1s are nice, but the C3 is the best balance of bulk and tube diameter for me.

The Comp M4 is nice, but the battery type and the fact that it's a ham hock on the top of your gun are the down sides.

ptmccain

11-25-12, 09:24

Thanks for the thoughts and advice, I went with the Micro T-1.

samuse

11-25-12, 22:02

Thanks for the thoughts and advice, I went with the Micro T-1.

Good choice, you won't regret it.

I went from an M4s to a T-1 and have not looked back.

The smaller size and noticeable weight difference are definitely worth any disadvantage in battery type/life to me.

I have T-1s in 2 nad 4 MOA dots and like 'em both. I actually like the 4 MOA dot better because of how the 4 MOA dot works with the trajectory of a 5.56 out to 100 yards.

PlatoCATM

11-26-12, 07:35

The compm4 will have a rotten alkaline battery much sooner than that. This happened to Pappabears Comp M4. I caught it before the damage was serious.

This happened to me and it ruined my compm4.

I haven't experienced any loss of FOV or limitation from my micro.

The_War_Wagon

11-26-12, 07:52

My HD rifle.

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc305/The_War_Wagon/BCM2.jpg

The micro is just fine for CQB. :cool:

cspackler

11-27-12, 23:37

1. The poor gent is misinformed
2. There is something to be said about view. Not fov since it is a rds, but I do find it a bit easier to acquire the dot on my M4 or ML3 than my R1 while in the dark, in an awkward/non-ideal shooting position (those with more training/experience and more consistent cheek weld would be less affected by this already minimal difference).
3. Use a Li AA battery for your M4 guys!
4. I have another R1 on my S&W 29 and it's pretty nice on there too.

markm

11-28-12, 06:47

3. Use a Li AA battery for your M4 guys!

I need to tell Pappabear about this.

markm

11-28-12, 08:06

I couldn't get used to the mass of the CompM4...

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb201/trixiebud/downsized_1126111342.jpg

Settled on the C3... I swear I read that the M4 is supposed to be no bigger... but man, it sure seemed bigger. :confused:

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb201/trixiebud/realsbr.jpg