View Full Version : ESEE 6 Vs. OKC RAK and RD6 First Impressions-Updated For MOLLE Backer-Pic Heavy
**To read the update for the ESEE MOLLE Backer, tin pouch, and accessories, keep scrolling down to post #9, and continue.**
As some of you may know, I started searching for a general purpose fixed blade knife about a year ago. After a bunch of reading and asking of questions, I narrowed it down quite a bit to what I felt comfortable with both quality and price- wise.
I thought it would be a good idea to share a rundown of the pros and cons of the knives that fit my budget that I have purchased so far, for other folks that may be in the same position as me. I also took a good number of pictures for the poor folks like me who can’t seem to find a side-by-side comparison shot.
As stated, this is simply my “out of the box” first impressions, not a “hard use” review. Also, I think it pretty much goes without saying that if you’re at all familiar with the internet and google, you can find plenty of usage reviews, the larger portion of them favorable towards the knives mentioned here (and yeah, I was one of those folks that “forgot” to do this. Don’t hate.). I’m not an expert by ANY means, so if I get some stuff wrong, my bad- feel free to correct if needed.
This will be posted in multiple posts in the same thread to avoid to overwhelming of a wall of text.
Grab a sandwich because this “small” review got a little long….
Onward;
Here for review is the ESEE 6, Ontario Knife Company RD-6, and OKC Ranger Assault Knife (RAK). I threw in a standard USMC Kbar (that I actually dug up in the woods many years back) as a standard comparator, as I think just about everybody is familiar with a good old fashioned Kbar (if not, what rock have you been under? :laugh:).
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/AllKnifeCombo.jpg
So with the exemption of the Kbar (see story above), all these knives come with a sheath from the factory. This is nice, because even if you don’t like it, it still gives you something to put it in to protect it until you can get a better one. Obviously there’s better custom/semi custom leather and kydex sheaths out there, but, again, no applicable to this review.
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/AllKnife_Sheaths.jpg
When I pulled the OKC knives out of the box, I was actually a little shocked at the size of the sheath- I was like “holy crap- it’s a small machete!”. This is a pretty long sheath, at approximately 15 inches.
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/RAK_OAL_sheath.jpg
Frankly, I hate to say it, but the people that said the factory OKC sheath suck are mostly right. Aside from the huge size, there seems to be a lot of wasted space- for one, obviously it’s meant to fit multiple knives, but this immediately results in about 1 inch extra of the plastic insert sticking out below the blade when inserted. Plus another 1.75 inches for the grommet tab below that- almost 3 inches of nothing-space.
The storage pocket on the outside also has some flaws- for one, its pretty narrow- probably ok for a fire steel, or maybe a small multi-tool or SAK. However, with something somewhat chunky, like a multi, or Swiss Army knife, you’re going to immediately run into problem #2- it doesn’t open very wide; only an approximate 1.5 inches fully extended AND only in the center- if you want a perfect square (ie, multi tool, or small sharpening stone) it’s simply not going to happen.
And then we hit problem #3- the pocket is tapered towards the bottom- so basically if you overcome problems 1 and 2, then you may be screwed anyway when you can’t insert your item all the way into the pouch because the bottom is to narrow!
And finally, the death knell of problem #4- if you have an item that is small enough to fit the width and height into the pouch, but also very short (like a lighter or such), you are screwed because there is not enough length on the inside of the male buckle’s strap to tighten it any shorter than it comes from the factory. Oh, sure you can make it about 3 inches longer, but not shorter.
And finally the problem everyone complains about- the horrible plastic insert and the resulting poor fit for the knife.
For starters, when inserted the knife rattles like a bloody bastard- there is approximately .25” of play for the RD6 and about 3/8” play for the RAK- and yes, they DO rattle even secured with the snap loops.
Speaking of the snap loops, did I mention they are partially secured to the sheath with Velcro? WTF? In all fairness, I am not familiar with the way other companies attach the snap handle loops with their nylon/MOLLE backers (like ESEE, but they could probably get away with it due to sheath retention), but I thought that was maybe not the greatest idea ever- seeing as how we’ve already covered the rotten fit of the knife in the sheath, this is literally the ONLY thing keeping it from taking flight during any movement other than a slow walk.
On the pro side, at least the snaps appear to work well- they are nice and tight (from the factory at least- after extended use, unknown, but they really don’t seem bad)
Going back to the insert, it is also not a seamless molded 1 piece of plastic- it’s a single piece that appears to have been folded in a square, and then glued together where it overlaps, and then glued into the sheath.
Back on the Pro side, I know jack about nylon, but the quality of the material frankly doesn’t seem too bad. And all the buttons and grommets are nice and tight and consistently uniformly spaced.
I think it’s simply a case of, overall quality of parts seem good, just a poor execution.
Anyway, I’ve ranted enough about a simple part most folk will be replacing anyway- on to the ESEE 6;
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/ESEE6_OAL_Sheath.jpg
As you can (sort of) see from the picture the ESEE sheath is about 8” long- 10 and change of you really want to count the clip plate. OAL with the knife in the sheath is about 12 3/8 inches- not much longer than the knife itself.
I have not gotten the MOLLE backer for the sheath yet (it’s on the way) so I can’t comment on that yet.
However, I will say that overall, imho, for a “free” factory sheath, it is excellent- especially considering the overall price the ESEE 6 sells for.
Being molded plasticy stuff (seriously, what is it? I heard one person mention Bladetech as the maker) it is a lot less flexible than I thought it would be (although it is a little soft, and not hard to take a chunk out of with the knife….), and has great retention. The top half of the sheath actually clamps around the grips when inserted and holds it in nice and tight- I turned it upside down and went haywire on it trying to jolt or shake it out, and it held it in very well- you really need a HARD, sharp jolt to make it fall out.
I also love that it has the grommets(?) on the sides like some kydex sheaths/holsters have- makes it a lot easier to either attach things with screws, or improvise an attachment/lashing with cord. Frankly, I’m going to keep it and use it as-is. I like the design of the sheath enough, and given the amount of people doing this apparently it’s a viable long term option.
Ok, so yeah, I know some people don’t like it, and you could probably do even better with a custom kydex or leather sheath, but in all fairness, I personally don’t see any problem with it that would warrant an immediate replacement.
The clip plate is interesting- I haven’t mounted it to a belt yet (will update when done, along with MOLLE backer), but as far as the clip itself goes it seems pretty robust- also this is not one of those lame-ass belt clips that you find on things like radios and cell phone cases- this is a “real” clip…
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/ESEE6_ClipPlate1.jpg
As you can see from the picture (yeah, I forgot the tape measure), the length of the clip is enough to accommodate a belt just under 2” wide, and about 3/16” thick. The metal is not super stiff, but more like a really stiff spring- makes a nice “SNAP” if you pull it open and let it go.
Also, the clip has a bend in the bottom on both sides- on one side this would probably be enough to keep it from sliding over the bottom edge of your belt (and falling off), but as said, there’s one on each side if the clip, and they interlock- the inside half of the clip is also inserted through a slot on the plate and presses against the outer side of it, so it can’t bend back (away from the wearer) and cause the whole sheath to just slide off.
I know that probably doesn’t make much sense without a better picture, but you can sort of see it. Just use your imagination… :laugh:
The attachment of the plate to the sheath is with four screws and some pretty stiff, thick rubber washers in between. Took all of about 2 minutes to attach it, and it’s on there solid- doesn’t seem like it’s coming off any time soon either.
The only thing I’m not sure I like is the flexibility of the clip plate itself where the metal clip is mounted- I’ll have to see what it does when worn, but I’m not sure I like it.
And now on to something more substantial- the ol’ d!ck measuring contest. :p
I’ll be showing these all next to the ESEE, simply for a side-by-side comparison so if people (like me) say “I wish there was a picture of an ESEE next to an RAK”, now you’ve got one!
All blade lengths were measured after the choil.
Starting off is the standard KaBar.
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/KbarVSEsee6_1.jpg
One thing you’ll notice as this goes on, is that these are all surprisingly similar in size- very small differences between all four.
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/KBar_OAL.jpg
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/KBar_BladeWidth.jpg
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/KBarVSEsee6_2.jpg
As you can see, the OAL of the K-bar is about exactly 12”, with a handle length of also about exactly 5”.
The blade width is 1.25” and exact length of the blade itself is about 6 15/16- weirdly just under 7”, and I added an extra 16th inch for a slightly blunt tip. Go figure.
Weight is 0.68 Lb.
The ESEE and K-bar are actually pretty similar in blade shape across the spine, with the exception of the clip point. The ESEE is obviously a bit wider, and the K-bar is the least wide out of all four.
Next up is the RD-6
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/RD6VSEsee6_1.jpg
The RD6 is probably the most dis-similar knife to the ESEE- both in thickness (.25 to the ESEE’s .18) and blade shape.
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/RD6_OAL.jpg
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/RD6_BladeWidth.jpg
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/RD6VSEsee6_2.jpg
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/RD6VSEsee6_3.jpg
As you can see, the OAL of the RD6 is 11.75”, and a handle length of approximately 4 3/8”.
Blade width is 1 11/16” and an actual length of 5 11/16”.
Weight with sheath is 1.42 pounds, without sheath, 1.02.
Despite being the overall biggest knife of the four, it’s actually the shortest (if that’s really a consideration), but also the widest.
For the last two pictures I switched around which knife was on top, so you all could get the clearest idea of how the two blades differ.
On to the RAK;
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/RAKVSEsee6_1.jpg
The RAK is the most similar of the four to the ESEE- the blade is literally almost the exact same length and width, as well as thickness- only real difference is the size of the choil and the handle. The OAL of the RAK is also a bit longer.
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/RAK_OAL.jpg
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/RAK_BladeWidth.jpg
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/RAKVSEsee6_3.jpg
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/RAKVSEsee6_2.jpg
As you can see, the OAL of the RAK is 12”, handle length of
4.25” (although it shrinks down to 4”, depending on how you’re grabbing it).
Blade width is 1 5/8” with an actual length of 5.75”.
Weight is 1.18 pounds with the sheath, 0.76 without.
In the final picture, it didn’t come out so well, but you can sort of get the idea of how big a difference there is between the ESEE and RAK choil- the RAK is HUGE, but actually very comfortable.
And finally the ESEE 6;
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/ESEE6_OAL.jpg
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/ESEE6_BladeWidth.jpg
As seen, the OAL of the ESEE 6 is 11.75”, with a handle length of 4 to 4.5”, again, depending on where you’re grabbing it.
Blade width is 1 9/16”, actual length of 5.75”.
Weight with sheath is 0.98 pounds, 0.72 without.
Overall, the ESEE 6 is on the lighter side, but balances really nicely, unlike it’s almost-clone the RAK, which is a bit blade heavy (which could be useful for certain tasks), and the RD6, which balances better than the RAK, but still feels really chunky.
Next, the ever important subject of the grips, blade thickness, and whatnot;
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/AllKnife_Handles.jpg
Four knives, four different grip styles….
Right off the bat, there’s two issues to address- length of handle and thickness of handle.
As you can see, the OKC knives have the shortest handles, with the Kbar and ESEE about tied.
I’m not a big fan of the shorter handles- namely on the RAK. The shape of the grips, and the position your hand sits on it normally is not very comfortable, and the rear point (of the grip- NOT the pommel) tends to dig into my palm- and I’m not even using it.
On the flip side, even though the RD6 has a short handle, the blade is thick enough, and the handle wide enough for it to fill your hand completely, but you still don’t get much extra room to play with. They also may be to wide for someone who has smaller hands. The OKC handles are also not as ergonomic as the ESEE, although I’m sure some sanding/grinding could fix most of that.
And then you have the K-bar- I’m sure some people like round stacked leather, but I hate it. Is it a simple effective grip, yes. But it’s, imho, not ergonomic at all- especially once you pick up any of the other three, it becomes very noticeable. Another minor issue with the Kbar is that due to the basic round shape it seems to want to roll side to side in my hand- there’s no angles for my hand to press against to get a firm grip locked in. With the others, there’s a basic hand shape that, while smooth and rounded enough to be ergonomic, still has enough of an angle to ensure a sure grip.
I don’t know if that explains it very well, but for another example look at handgun grips- they’re NOT round….
On a strange note, the ESEE 6 actually has the thinnest grips of all four, however due to the shape and width (measured like the blades previously), it fills my hand perfectly. The RAK is not as wide, but even though the RAK is thicker, it doesn’t make up for it, and is actually a bit small for my hand.
Speaking of grip width;
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/BladeThickness_GripView.jpg
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/BladeThickness_TopView.jpg
As you can see from the top picture, it really accentuates the difference between the length of the grips, as well as the thickness. I was trying to hold them upright with one hand while taking the picture, so the RD6 is a little off- it’s actually the same length up top as the RAK. However, as seen in the previous grip picture, it is not the same length from the side due to the shape of the RAK’s grip.
Of course in the second picture you can get a good idea of the blades and thickness of each knife. Pretty self explanatory… :laugh:
And finally, extras;
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/AllKnife_PommelView.jpg
Here’s a shot of the pommels of all four of the knives- again quite a variety. For a side view, see the above grip picture.
The RD6 imo, has the best useful pommel- with the size and shape of it, and weight of the knife, I feel like I could seriously use that to smack some sh!t as an improvised hammer/blunt weapon. I also sort of like the slit for inserting cord as it would seem to give a little more versatility of what size cord or strap you can use.
The Kbar would probably be second best, but I’d probably be afraid of loosening it up and having the end piece pop off- not sure if this is a real issue as I’ve never tried it, but being pressed on, I wouldn’t be surprised. Plus it seems a little wide and flat to be seriously effective as an improvised blunt weapon. Also there’s no place to attach a cord/lanyard.
The ESEE 6 has got enough to the pommel to smack something, but it’s a little to thin and to rounded to use as an improvised hammer or such. Probably still hurt if you slugged somebody upside the head though.
The RAK, I think we can all agree, with the spike design will be completely useless as an improvised hammer. In fact I also consider this a drawback as, because it is always protruding from the top of the knife, and at me when wearing it, if I fall over and have it stick me in the ribs, or do something else dumb that I’m prone to, I could easily injure myself with it. On the plus side, it’s also probably great as a blunt force weapon.
And for the record, I’m not about to get into “The Great Knife Fighting Debate”- this ridiculously long dissertation is not about knife fighting, and I think we all agree that, in the words of a wise man, “stick the pointy end in the soft spots” is generally the best idea, if for some absurd reason one is in such a bad situation they need to rely on their knife to defend themselves.
I merely point to the pommel as a blunt force weapon, because, well…. It can be.
On to a couple final extras;
Choils- The K-bar obviously hasn’t got one, in favor of a cross guard. I don’t like the cross guard- it annoys the living hell out of me trying to grip the knife in certain ways, and as I’m probably not ever going to go knife-on-knife Van Damme-style with anyone, not useful for my purposes.
The RD6 has, what I think, is not a very good choil- it is very small, very shallow, and frankly, not shaped very well. I don’t like it.
The RAK has an epic choil- seriously this thing is huge- but in a good way. It’s so big that it has a sort of tang [?] that sticks out like a mini-crossguard before your finger gets to the choil that keeps your finger from running up onto it (or blade) if you don’t want it to, unlike the RD6, that has both a shallow choil and shallow index-finger groove. Once you get your finger in there, the tang that sticks out gives you something to pull against to get a really firm grip. In fact gripping the knife is actually more comfortable if you use the choil all the time. And it’s big enough to use with pretty thick gloves if needed. Maybe that’s the secret to getting this knife to fit your hand well- wear gloves.
The ESEE 6 has a real nice intermediate hybrid sort of finger groove/choil combo. In fact it is literally perfect. The index finger groove on the grip is nice and deep, so even though it doesn’t have a huge tang sticking out like the RAK, it feels almost exactly the same- you’re not going to accidentally run your fingers over the grip onto the blade.
The choil is also great- not as super huge as the RAK, but shaped perfectly for your finger, and deep enough and with enough tang (again, like the RAK) sticking out to get a real firm grip when using it. I wish it was just a tad wider to put the rearmost edge of the blade just a little further from my finger, but it’s workable.
The jimping on the ESEE, and both OKC knives is, to me, pretty good (what do I know?). On the OKC’s it is much more aggressive with deeper grooves, but frankly, even though the ESEE’s jimping is a little shallower, it still feels good enough to get the job done.
Also the RD6 jimping is very short- only 3 grooves long, compared to 5 on the RAK, and 9 on the ESEE. It’s also on the back angle of the blade, and more useful when gripping the handle- when using the choil, my thumb ends up on the spine of the blade where there is nothing ( I may be doing it slightly wrong, but I do have long thumbs, and big hands in general)- would have been nice for them to extend it just a tad up there.
Also the ESEE 6 seemed a little sharper out of the box- no serious work yet, but trying a simple paper slice, the ESEE went through it like butter- the OKCs both struggled a little, but once started did fine. I think partially this may have to do with the thickness of the OKCs, namely the RD6, but I darn near already cut myself on the ESEE just fondling it, and when I pulled it out for the first time, I personally just guesstimated it’s a little sharper. SWAG at its finest. :laugh:
At last the end of this ridiculously long writeup!
So you all want to know- What did he pick after all this?
Well, as stated earlier, there’s still a little hands-on research to be done (will update here when complete), but I’m leaning very strongly toward the ESEE 6- the blade shape and length are perfect, the handle feels great, it has a nice factory sheath (perfect for my lousy budget), and the price was right ($120 shipped from Knifeworks). Honestly, I think the value of the ESEE with all the stuff you get in the box, and with the way their overall quality seems to be so far, is through the roof. In fact, I haven’t even 100% decided what to keep (pending final research) and I’ve already found myself plotting to get another flavor from ESEE.
I’d still love to get ahold of a Swamp Rat RMD to put up against these though….
TacMedic556
11-16-12, 23:52
Great review.
I actually ordered an ESEE 6 Clip point about a week ago. I was stoked to get to the end of your review and see you leaning towards it. After all the reading I had done, it seemed the way to go.
Thanks for the write up. I have an ESSE 3 and that I love. I was looking at gettin the ESSE 6 and I think you just convinced me.
As an aside, I don't mean to dissuade anyone from buying an OKC knife, if that's what they want- as has been pointed out in other places, they are very good knives for the money.
Just not right for me, hence the lean of this review.
Ermahgerd!
http://www.the-knife-connection.com/esee-5---6-series-custom-sporting-field-handle-kits.html
I am so tempted right now.....
Preliminary reviews over on Baldeforums seem good.
Anyone here got any input on the custom G10 handles from The Knife Connection?
Ermahgerd!
http://www.the-knife-connection.com/esee-5---6-series-custom-sporting-field-handle-kits.html
I am so tempted right now.....
Anyone got any input on the custom G10 handles from The Knife Connection?
The TKC scales are to the ESEE forum what DD, BCM and colt are to this forum. Get them, you won't be disappointed
As promised, a review update of the ESEE 6 MOLLE Backer, Tin Pouch, and MOLLE Clips.
After getting the E-6, I simply couldn’t help myself and ordered the extra parts- the ESEE 6 kind of strikes me as the AR15 of knives- one base knife, lots of customization options. I’m a HUGE option/customization fanatic- especially when the options come in a modular format. So as I said, it was pretty much irresistible to NOT order the parts. Well played ESEE… well played.:p
As per the previous portion of this review, this is a “first impression” writeup. And yes, there are lots of pictures- maybe a few to many this time. In fact this part of the review somehow managed to get even longer then the section on the knives themselves, therefore this section will be divided into multiple posts, same as before.
For reference sake, the belt I used to test the mounting options is a Wilderness Tactical Instructor belt, 1.5”, 5-stitch.
Onward;
I’ll start with the Clip Plate, since that’s what came with the knife, and what I had already mounted.
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/ESEE_ClipPlate_Mount.jpg
As I mentioned previously, the clip looked to be a very secure way of mounting to a standard belt without worry of it slipping off, and I was right.
The clip actually slides over the belt pretty easily- I was expecting a battle based on some other gear I have used with clips like this, as well as the fact that the clip has that interlocking bend in it, but in fact that bend actually seems to help the clip slide over the belt easier, as its smooth curved shape sort of pushes the belt aside as you slide it down.
The clip plate also seems very secure- I jumped up and down, and did some short sprints with as violent a motion as I could manage, and I would say that under normal use, that clip is NOT coming off unless you take it off. It can bend, but it would still have to be a very precise “one in a million” sort of situation to get it off of whatever it’s attached to with no hands involved.
To intentionally get the clip plate off your belt, you need to pull the sheath up with one hand, and use your other to slightly spread the bottom of the clip where it bends away from where it presses against the sheath- so again, you can’t just pull it off. Ok, so I suppose if you tugged at it long enough you’d get it off eventually, but your pants would also end up around your ears by the time you get done. :D
As far as overall fit and comfort, the clip plate gives the knife a close fit to your body- close enough to be somewhat low-profile, but not so close you can’t easily get a grip on the knife to draw it. It also drops the sheath slightly, and the handle ends up in a very comfortable position for grabbing. Obviously, you could reverse the mounting for either left side, or reverse grip carry.
On the Con side;
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/ESEE_ClipPlate_Bend.jpg
As you can sort of see from that picture, if you wear the knife at a 9-10 o’clock position you can have some trouble when bending over or taking a knee, as the sheath will catch on your thigh, and both dig the top of the knife handle into your side, and bend the sheath and clip. Not a huge issue- you can remedy this simply by wearing the knife at an 8 o’clock position- but it is annoying. And good luck if you need to sit down on something (chair, log, whatever) while wearing the knife- darn near impossible to find a comfortable position to put the sheath. A 9:30/9:45 position is slightly better for sitting, but not much. Of course I don’t envision anyone doing much full-on sitting while wearing a knife like this, but just for the record….;)
Also, the knife is VERY floppy when worn on the belt like this- not very much vertical movement, but side-to-side swing and leg slapping? Oh yes.
However, this could probably be partially remedied by rigging up a leg strap or Para cord loop- the bottom 4 grommets on the sheath stay available for use even with the full MOLLE backer.
MOLLE Clips;
For the folks who haven’t seen one of these, you’re in luck!
Here’s what they look like closed and open:
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/ESEE_MOLLELock_Closed.jpg
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/ESEE_MOLLELock_Open.jpg
One real pisser with these- in fact all the extra parts I got- no directions! Not that it’s really all that hard to guess if you still possess two brain cells to rub together (an item I often doubt personal ownership of…:laugh:) , BUT for some things it might have been helpful to have a few tips or pointers. And for goodness sake, the clip plate had instructions and that was WAY simpler to figure out than the MOLLE backer and such. Go figure.
Anyway, as you can see from the previous two pictures, the part with the two prongs snaps into the part with the two clips. Simply press the top tab back, then pinch and pull the middle prongs out to release. The prongs fit into the clip-slots, and are spread into place by the middle tab that keeps them from pinching and flexing out on their own.
The plastic they’re made of seems a little on the flexible side, but I don’t see them bending very easily, and I’d rather have the piece securing my gear bend a little than snap.
However a slightly annoying issue arose;
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/ESEE_MOLLELock_SheathMount1.jpg
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/ESEE_MOLLELock_SheathMount2.jpg
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/ESEE_MOLLELock_SheathMount3.jpg
As you can see from that set of pictures, the MOLLE clips, no matter which way you turn them, simply will not work if you want to use the top two holes in the sheath. Bummer.
If I recall correctly, they won’t line up with the bottom two holes (#4 from the top) either.
Therefore, the only place to put them is in the center two holes.
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/ESEE_MOLLELock_Complete.jpg
Using my superior powers of deduction (not) I guessed that the M-clips mount with the screws inserted into the inside of the clip, with the flat back towards the sheath, and the rubber washers in between the sheath and clips. So it’s actually reversed from the way you would normally attach parts to this sheath (remember the way the clip plate mounted? Do the screws backwards).
Speaking of which, the M-clips do come with their own set of screws- 4, plus the same number of rubber washers. Which is nice because you won’t have to cannibalize the screws from your Clip Plate, and you now have an extra set in the event you break/lose a screw.
I intentionally attached them to the sheath in reverse direction to each other, to see if there was a difference in height with the way the holes in the clips lined up. Apparently, there is not- although hinge up looks like it may provide a very slight higher ride that with the hinge down.
Overall, it seems like they would be pretty secure in any MOLLE gear, although I’m not sure which way they’d work better for drawing a knife- hinge up or down- to prevent pulling the clips open from drawing the knife, or the weight of it wiggling around while moving. Unfortunately, at this time I don’t have any MOLLE gear to test it on (yet), so maybe somebody who has tried this could chime in?
I’m also not sure of the MOLLE spacing- as seen in this picture….
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/ESEE_MOLLELock_ARmag.jpg
….the clips when mounted are every close to an AR mag in size, so I would guess it would fit on MOLLE gear in the same space a mag pouch would. I mean, given ESEE’s overall track record, I would think they wouldn’t be so stupid as to make it some off-kilter spacing. Right….?:confused:
On a side note I have heard some folk like the MALICE or Maxpedition Tac-Ties better than Blade-Tech’s M-Clips. Not sure how you would attach them though- I guess for the MALICE straps you could just drill/punch a hole in the correct spot and use the standard screws to attach it to the sheath.
Tin Pouch;
This is probably the accessory I was the most stoked to get- as mentioned I love options, and anything that can pull double-duty is even better. I’d seen the little mint-tin micro survival kits before I knew about this sheath pouch, and liked the idea. So when I ran across some pictures of people attaching these pouches to their knife sheaths, I was like “Duh! Perfect last-ditch survival kit”- I mean you’re already carrying a knife, why not a few extra goodies, just in case?
Anyway, I got the pouch out of the packaging (the usual plastic bag, not that I really care what it comes in) and was immediately met with this:
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/ESEE_PouchTin_MIM.jpg
:mad:
Yeah, not a huge deal, but given the fact that ESEE’s products are generally made in the good ‘ol U.S. of A, it was a little annoying, which is where we’ll leave this branch of conversation off at. On the bright side, now it’s even more fun to mis-pronounce ESEE as “ess-ay”. :laugh:
Anyway-
The pouch I ordered with the tin included, and it does come with its own set of screws (they’re in the tin) which, as you can see from the picture below, are longer and of a slightly different head shape. You will be needing the extra length for sure, if you plan to mount the pouch in conjunction with the MOLLE backer.
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/ESEE_PouchTin_Screws.jpg
I have two minor peeves with this pouch-
1) It’s the same as the OKC sheath pouch- there’s a good bit of open space at the top of the pouch when the tin is inserted and the buckle is closed, and the strap cannot be adjusted down far enough to bring it flush with the pouch.
That being said, the tin is NOT coming out- it won’t fall through the open space at the top, and the elastic band holds it in pretty securely on it’s own.
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/ESEE_PouchTin_FlapSpace.jpg
2) The top flap is not the same width as the pouch pocket- it’s narrower. Again, not a huge issue, but if you had some sort of narrower item[s] in the pouch, there is an opportunity there for it to sneak out the side.
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/ESEE_PouchTin_SideFlapSpace.jpg
The pouch attaches to the sheath at the #1 and #3 grommets. If you are planning on attaching the pouch to the sheath by itself without the rest of the MOLLE backing, or clips, you can actually use the standard length screws, like from the clip plate. Obviously if you want to attach it with anything else, even the original clip plate, you’re going to need the longer screws.
Although, on a side note, with the clip plate plus pouch you’d actually only need 2 of the long screws- the clip plate attaches at the #1 and #2 sheath grommets- the pouch attaches at #1 and #3.
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/ESEE_PouchTin_CompletePlusClipPlate.jpg
One other minor issue- the grommets on the pouch do not match up quite perfectly to the grommets on the sheath- in fact there’s a fairly noticeable offset with the screws at times- this picture doesn’t quite portray it fully, but you get the idea-
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/ESEE_PouchTin_SheathScrewOffset.jpg
MOLLE BACKER;
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/ESEE_PartsInBox.jpg
These are all the parts that I ordered- plus a cool sticker.:cool:
On an interesting note, the package was actually hand addressed from whoever packed it at ESEE, so apparently there’s real people there. :p
The MOLLE backer comes with 4 standard screws and a spare plastic hanger-loop that attaches the two halves. Apparently it’s also made in Mexico like the pouch….
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/ESEE_MOLLEBacker_Size.jpg
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/ESEE_MOLLEBacker_OKCcomparison.jpg
The ESEE backer is approximately 12.5” long. As you can see from the comparison shot, assembled it is around 13.5”, which is still a bit shorter than OKC’s 15 inches. The ESEE backer’s panels actually have some sort of panel of stiffening material sewn into them, and overall seem not as floppy as the OKC sheath- especially once the sheath and knife are attached.
I’m honestly not sure what the black plastic loop at the top of the backer is for?
Apparently the MOLLE backer can be attached two ways- either complete, or with only the bottom half attached to the sheath.
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/ESEE_MOLLEBacker_BottomHalfMounted.jpg
It’s pretty simple to take the halves of the backer apart- just unto MOLLE strap snap, and using a little clever pulling and bending if the plastic attachment loop, pull it out. Then pull the Velcro flap through. The snaps for the MOLLE straps are VERY tight, so that’s both a good thing, and also annoying if you’re taking it apart a lot to figure out what you want to do with it.
I’m not sure quite what they were thinking when they designed the fit of the MOLLE backer to the sheath. On the part of the sheath that clasps around the handle to provide retention and therefore sticks out a bit, the stiffener in the bottom portion of the backer doesn’t fit completely flush against the sheath under it as it’s just a bit too long. Also that plastic slot attachment for the upper half runs right across the back of the bulge.
This makes it VERY difficult to attach the backer to the sheath- especially if you want to add the pouch on top of it- as the backer does not sit flush against the sheath. And so you get this;
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/ESEE_MOLLEBacker_SheathMountOffsetProblem.jpg
This also puts some space between the handle of the knife and the backer, so if you try to fasten the snap for the MOLLE strap on the upper half of the backer with one hand, it is very difficult- you really need to slip a finger between the handle and the backer to get the proper resistance to snap the snap closed properly.
Also, because of the way the plastic loop lays across the sheath bulge there, it seems like there would be a lot of constant stress on it- and frankly it didn’t seem that bombproof…
Maybe this is why they send the backer with a second loop.
Although I’m not sure how you would replace it, as it’s sewn into the top half of the backer. Weird.
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/ESEE_MOLLEBacker_MountedFront.jpg
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/ESEE_MOLLEBacker_MountedSideJPG.jpg
Two other things I find minorly annoying-
1) The handle retention strap is still partially attached with Velcro. This is annoying, because frankly, I hate Velcro. I suppose this is partially a personal preference thing due to previous un-good experiences with it, and as I mentioned previously in the knife review, they can get away with it, because if it fails, the sheath still has more than enough retention to avoid having the knife fling out when moving. Obviously, the strap will probably need to be adjusted to fit the knife’s handle.
2) I’m not sure I like the way the metal attachment loop on the securing strap lays across the knife handle at an angle. It seems like it would put a good bit of stress on it in this position being just thin metal, as opposed to laying flat against the spine side of the grip. However, this may vary, depending on how your knife fits- I just left it a little on the loose side to avoid stressing it.
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/ESEE_MOLLEComplete_Front.jpg
Now to get the whole shebang together as seen in the picture there, you need to sort of have an order to doing it, as well as a little patience.
First off, continuing with a previous peeve I mentioned, the mounting holes for everything STILL do not line up perfectly. The pouch is not perfect, the MOLLE backer is not perfect, and to add to the frustration, the space I mentioned at the upper part of the sheath will not allow the backer and pouch grommets to fit close to the sheath to get the screw through easier.
Therefore, the best way to do this is to mount the MOLLE backer alone first using the standard length screws. Then take the top two out (#1 grommets on sheath- leave the #3 screws in for now), mount the pouch and insert the long screws. The screw backs for the standard ones you just took out should somewhat hold themselves in place due to the Velcro foldover of the bottom half of the backer being fairly tight (if you pulled it down all the way), so you’ll have one less thing to try and hold on to when trying to line up the top screws for the pouch and press everything together.
Tighten the top two screws down enough to hold the pouch on, but still loose enough to wiggle generously.
Now flip up the bottom half of the pouch and remove the standard screws from the #3 grommets. With the tin removed, the pouch will flex enough to fold in half, although you may need to pop the buckle if it won’t fold over far enough.
The screw backs for the standard screws are going to fall out, but the layers at the bottom of the sheath will fit pretty closely, so it’s easy to hold everything in place when you insert the long screws through the pouch’s grommets to tie everything together.
At this point, all four screws should be in, but still generously wiggly.
Now you can sort of slowly move the backer and pouch around while finger tightening the screws to get everything lined up as square as possible. It still won’t be perfect, but should be fairly close. If you just crank everything down willy nilly, you’ll end up with the annoying screw offset again:
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/ESEE_MOLLEComplete_ScrewOffset.jpg
Use a screwdriver to tighten them down the rest of the way. I screwed mine down tight, then backed them off a millimeter or two just to be sure it’s not OVER tight.
And finally some random observations;
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/ESEE_MOLLEComplete_BeltMounted.jpg
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/OKC_SheathBeltMount.jpg
I mounted the knife to my belt using the belt loop on the top half of the MOLLE backer. The loop actually seemed on the smaller side when I first saw it, but once I slid it onto the belt, there was MORE than enough room- I was using a 1.5 inch wide belt, and it could easily take a 2 inch belt, as well as one that was a little thicker than what I was using.
One could also use the top MOLLE strap to attach the knife to a belt but it would obviously flop around more.
And yes, it does flop around a good bit when moving- surprisingly not as much as the Clip Plate, but still enough to be annoying when it’s slapping against your leg incessantly. I almost wonder if some of this may have to do with the belt I was using- maybe a 2” belt would have helped stiffen things up a little more by filling up the space left over in the backer’s belt loop.
Overall, the OKC sheath fits and handles exactly like the ESEE- I was expecting even more flapping given the couple extra inches of length on the OKC, but there really wasn’t.
I also read of some people complaining that they didn’t like the pouch because it sticks out to far.
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/ESEE_MOLLEComplete_PouchWidth.jpg
As you can see, the picture is a little misleading, but I lined the tape measure up with the buckle, as that’s what was the furthest thing sticking out, and measured a width of about 3 inches even. I will agree that this is significant, especially if trying to work ones way through thick brush or other narrow areas. However, in reality it really doesn’t FEEL like three inches sticking off your leg- even with the way the sheath tends to flap around, in all fairness it was perfectly bearable. Also, given its MOLLE capabilities, if using this setup in a combat environment attached to other gear or such, I don’t think a few inches sticking out on a very small area is going to be of much concern to guys who have WAY more stuff strapped to and sticking off of them….
Another little quirk I noticed with the pouch was that once you mount it to the sheath, the screws in the #3 grommet can prevent the tin from fully seating in the pouch. To get around this, when re-inserting the tin into the pouch, you’d need to pull up on it (against the elastic band) to slip it over the top of the screws. If you try to insert the tin straight in, it will hit against the screws and not seat fully.
Final assembled weight of the ESEE with MOLLE backer, Pouch and Tin was 1.36 Lbs., versus the OKC RD6 at 1.42 Lbs., and the RAK at 1.18 Lbs.- more or less right in the middle. I meant to get a weight with the MOLLE backer mounted to the ESEE’s sheath without the pouch, but was in no mood to re-assemble the whole thing again afterwards, and it wasn’t really all that important anyway, so to bad. :laugh:
A final few things I found minorly annoying;
When worn on the belt using the MOLLE backer, if taking a knee, or squatting low to the ground or such, the sheath has a tendency to hit the ground/floor, which pushes up on the whole thing and makes it dig into your side.
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/ESEE_MOLLEComplete_FloorHit.jpg
I do not like the way the belt loop is attached to the MOLLE backer. As you can see from these pictures…
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/ESEE_MOLLEBacker_BeltLoopStitching_Top.jpg
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/ESEE_MOLLEBacker_BeltLoopStitching_Side.jpg
…the belt loop appears to only be attached to the backer by a single double-column strand of sewing at the top and bottom of the loop- it’s not attached in any other way BUT the sewing. This is a cause for concern, because if you loose that loop, you’ll also loose the top MOLLE strap as well, as it appears to be attached to the belt loop.
Also, if you look at the way the plastic hanger loop for joining the two halves of the MOLLE backer together is attached to the top portion of the backer, it is also attached the same way.
Now, having just got the thing, I cannot speak for the longevity of this system- perhaps someone with more use experience could weigh in on this?
But honestly, this issue in particular was a little underwhelming.
Anway, if you’ve made it this far, or didn’t want to read the whole thing here’s a quick recap and summary;
Pros: the items reviewed here, both the nylon and other products, appear to be of good quality- again, I’m no expert on soft gear, but it does seem well made despite the import tags. Plus, these parts offer a freaking TON of mounting options- between the standard clip plate, MOLLE Clips, and 2-part MOLLE backer, I don’t see there being much you can’t mount the knife to very securely. I also can’t wait to get started on setting up a micro-survival kit with the tin and pouch.
Cons: The screw holes not lining up perfectly, the tin not being a complete fit when mounted, the weird fit of the MOLLE backer at the handle clamp on the sheath, and the stitching of the belt loop (could easily have at least double stranded the sewing), no instructions, not made in USA like the knife.
Overall: I like the idea, and I’m looking forward to getting into using the whole thing, although I wish I had some MOLLE gear on me right now to fully test it out- maybe somebody who has used this stuff in conjunction with some gear can chime in?
I like the amount of options, and the quality still seems consistent. However, there are just a few annoying glitches that in all fairness, I do not know how they managed to miss….
shutup&shoot
01-08-13, 10:56
Very nice review. I just picked up a 6 in a group buy. Desert tan with the ESEE skull logo and Molon Labe above it. My new favorite blade.
NoveskeFan
01-26-13, 13:02
Thanks for taking the time to do this review. I was on the fence about ordering an Esee 6, but am now ready to order.
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