Opitcs for Noob?

[Pave_Sushi]

I have a Colt 6720r, no mods. I have a slight physical disability, so minimizing weight is a priority. I previously owned a ban-era BM M4 which was reasonably reliable as long as I used good mags. I traded up for the Colt last week.

http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/9454/7glt6720r.jpg

I shoot 100 rds per month (also 50 rds of .45ACP and 50 rds of .380 auto through my pistols). This is a hobby for me, not a career. The .45 and .380 are my CCW weapons.

I shoot in an indoor 25yd range most of the time, but once a quarter go out to a farm and shoot at 100 and 300 yards. In addition to shooting 100 rds with the M4, I shoot 20rds with my hunting rifle (Rem 700 30.06, Leupold 3-9x40).

I'd like to put a holo site on the Colt, but do not know what would be good for my usage.
- Should I get a magnifier?
- Pros/Cons on magnifiers that flips to the side?
- Can I see my flip up irons through the holgram window should it fail?
- Do I have enough rail space for the holo, magnifier, and flip ups?

Thank you for your advice.

Pave.

[Kain]

What is your primary usage for the rifle? If is home defense I would go with a red dot of some kind, personal preference for Aimpoints(If you are worried about weight a Micro may be your best option) but I would go Eotech before I would a lot others. 0-300 meters shouldn't be hard as long as your fundamentals are sound, and unless you are shooting for groups at 300 a red dot would be fine. Once again depends on what your mission for the rifle is. If you are looking more for longer reach/precision I might look at a 1-4X scope since weight wise it isn't going to be drastically different.

As far as pros and cons, I am not going to speak to those since my time behind them is limited and there are those who are much more knowledgeable on here about them.

As far as seeing your irons through the red dot, holo or otherwise, it will depend on the model and height it is, will likely be either an absolute or 1/3 cowitness, personal preference on which height you want though if you are going with a magnifier I think the ones that are current in vogue have the controls on the side and sit at about a 1/3 cowitness.

Final question, if the rifle you have is the one in the picture I would imagine that you would have plenty of rail space. Indeed even without the extra rail you would have enough room to get the red dot, magnifier and rear BUIS.

[Hmac]

By "holo-sight" I assume you're referring to "red dot sight". Only Eotech makes an actual holographic projection sight.

If absolute weight exacerbates your disability then consider an Aimpoint T-1/H-1. If cost is a major consideration and your disability only impairs your support hand capability, then given the lever arm of an optic placed at mid-rifle there won't be that much difference between the weight of a T-1 and an Aimpoint PRO or an Eotech XPS-series sight. You can easily add a quickly-detachable flip-to-side magnifier for either, although you'd have about $1000 invested in optics at that point. You have enough rail space on the receiver for the RDS optic, magnifier, and rear MBUS.

Your MBUS sights should co-witness in any such optic just fine. Whether in the middle or lower third will depend on preference and whatever mount you get with the optic.

[Pave_Sushi]

I do not expect this gun will ever be fired in anger unless the zombie apocolypse happens. Otherwise I have a 12ga for home defense.

This is primarily a fun gun, but I keep enough ammo on hand in case the world decides to go to hell one day.

Most of my shooting is done at 25yds, so I do not want a permanantly mounted scope.

I do like to reach out for 300 yd targets once in a while, but I am shooting at head & shoulder targets and not trying to win any contests.

From your replies it sounds like I should get an RDS, and then see if adding a magnifier is necessary after I evaluate how I do with the RDS.

Thank you for the suggesstions. I'm going to hit the local shops and check them out.

Learned today: co-witness, holographic /= red dot

[theblackknight]

Any of the big optics would be fine for you. You just need to weight things like, do you like the eotec reticle better bc of the smaller center dot, and dont mind giving up the battery life difference to get it. Hitting at 300 is no prob with any of them.

Also,dont rule out a rmr type, the battery powered one has a 3.5moa dot.
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l274/bglimpse/3644854851_c96de441f4_b.jpg

sent from mah gun,using my sights

[Hmac]

I understand your implication...maybe you don't need a $400+ sight for a range toy. I'd only say that a quality RDS will last a long, long time and eliminate the possibility of frustration that might be felt in having recurrent failures of a budget optic, as tends to be reported here on M4C fairly often. It also will be readily re-sellable if necessary whereas the usual Chinese import alternatives won't be. You've spent the money on a quality firearm. I wouldn't skimp now when selecting a targeting system that is equal to the gun.

I agree that buying a magnifier would be something to do after you have evaluated need once you have some time with your chosen RDS. If you were looking to save some money, I'd save it there rather than on the optic itself.

[Pave_Sushi]

I think I'll start in the $500 - 600 range. My typical rule of thumb is spend about the same on the optics as you spend on the gun, but for this purpose $1300 seems a bit much.

Having not tested any of these optics, I'm curious what the right size dot is. Is 1MOA to small for close in engagements? Is 3.5MOA too large for 300yds?

Checking out the suggestions so far, I really want to test fire one with 1MOA and one with 3.5 MOA. Maybe one of the ranges around here will let me mount them up and try them out.

[Hmac]

In my experience anything up to 4 MOA works just fine for 50 yards and in. Longer than that and 2MOA becomes preferable, IMHO. Beyond 100 yards, I'd opt for the 1 MOA dot available on an Eotech.

I find that my 3X Eotech magnifier turns the 4MOA dot on my Aimpoint T-1 into an indistinct comma-shaped blob. Not an issue on the Eotech RDS. Also hasn't been an issue on my 2MOA Aimpoint PRO, although I haven't shot it with the magnifier beyond 100 yards so I don't know if it would be an issue at 300 yards.

[Jojo66]

I think I'll start in the $500 - 600 range. My typical rule of thumb is spend about the same on the optics as you spend on the gun, but for this purpose $1300 seems a bit much.

Having not tested any of these optics, I'm curious what the right size dot is. Is 1MOA to small for close in engagements? Is 3.5MOA too large for 300yds?

Checking out the suggestions so far, I really want to test fire one with 1MOA and one with 3.5 MOA. Maybe one of the ranges around here will let me mount them up and try them out.

I think the perfect dot would be 2moa personally but that's just me

[theblackknight]

Having not tested any of these optics, I'm curious what the right size dot is. Is 1MOA to small for close in engagements? Is 3.5MOA too large for 300yds?



Both are fine for each. It's really preference.



sent from mah gun,using my sights

[TehLlama]

Aimpoint PRO
Used Aimpoint H-1 on a DD, LT, ADM, or similar mount (preferably lower 1/3 cowitness).

The PRO will work really well, very cost effective, and simple. The dot seems big, but it's really the best value unit among all reflex (non-zoom) optics, period.

If you find a really good price on an H-1 (or a steal on a T-1) then jump on that - smaller optic, but saves weight. You'll want a lower 1/3 cowitness setup because of the smaller tube, but don't think that the tube size changes FOV like with a zoom optic - use both eyes and it's a nonissue.

[munch520]

Agreed ^

I also think the 2moa C3 is one of the best, and most underrated options out there

[Pave_Sushi]

Neither of the two gun shops I frequent carry Aimpoint, so I'm going to have to travel to try one out. I'm wary of buying one online.

For some reason the local shops are having a hard time getting Trijicons and EOtechs. There are some 512s and Reflex available, but that is it. The Reflex all had 6.5MOA or larger dots. Both shops told me to expect 3-5 months before they got any more in.

[TehLlama]

I wouldn't limit yourself to just those local shops - there are a lot of places that carry aimpoints, but especially with something that relies as heavily as optics on personal preference, seeing in person is worth it.

[RamadiDoorkicker]

I'm a firm believer in Aimpoint. I started using red dot sights years ago when hunting whitetail with shotguns in Ohio and progressed to Aimpoints as an Infantryman. Being given the decision to place the optic of my choice on my rifle, the Aimpoint was always my choice. Serving several tours in Iraq limited the distance I would be engagements with so magnification was not needed, in my opinion. You can still easily engage a human target at 400+ meters with a red dot and just as easily engage 20 meters.

[Toyoland66]

If you are ordering online from a random eBay vendor then you should be wary, but as long as you purchase from a reputable vendor there is nothing to worry about. Both G&R tactical and larue tactical have very good prices on aimpoint + mount combo deals.