View Full Version : AAC mini4 question
kymudder08
11-20-12, 22:51
I've been thinking about buying a can for my ARs and settled on the mini4. My question is, after looking at AACs website it's unclear on how it mounts. All it says is that the mount is a 51T ratchet mount. Does that mean you have to have the 51T muzzle brake or flash hider to mount it? Also, can it be pinned and welded on a 14.5 upper? I searched for mini4 and all that came up for a couple threads. Thanks in advance, this will be my first suppressor so I'm def a newb
I've been thinking about buying a can for my ARs and settled on the mini4. My question is, after looking at AACs website it's unclear on how it mounts. All it says is that the mount is a 51T ratchet mount. Does that mean you have to have the 51T muzzle brake or flash hider to mount it? Also, can it be pinned and welded on a 14.5 upper? I searched for mini4 and all that came up for a couple threads. Thanks in advance, this will be my first suppressor so I'm def a newb
Yes, you mount the mini4 to a 51T muzzle device.
Pinning and welding a 51T flash hider to a 14.5" barrel is pretty common.
kymudder08
11-20-12, 23:08
Awesome, thanks. That's what I thought I just wanted to be sure. They didn't give as much detail on the mini4 as the other 3 5.56 suppressors. Is the street price on suppressors usually the same as msrp or are they usually a little less like with other products?
Awesome, thanks. That's what I thought I just wanted to be sure. They didn't give as much detail on the mini4 as the other 3 5.56 suppressors. Is the street price on suppressors usually the same as msrp or are they usually a little less like with other products?
Iirc, a mini 4 can be had for $750.
Just a word on warning considering that you are not familiar with suppressors or mounts...
Afaik, AAC has already shown a replacement mount that makes the 51T mount and cans obsolete. The new 90T Taper mount was announced, then shelved and tentatively slated for release in 2013 but when is anyone's guess. It might be in re-design, but the point is 51T is leaving.
Personally, I would not get into 51T now considering it's stamped expiration date is coming up. Certainly not for pinning and welding, but also for being stuck with the 51T cans considering the expense and wait time with NFA.
I wouldn't want to get stuck with an outdated mount. Surefire's SOCOM uses a new mount that just came out that replaces their old ones and those are shipping now with a mini can option. Silencerco's Saker uses an all new mount but they have said they will support their own as well as AAC's 51T via a modular adapter, so there may be hope for old mount owners getting newer/better cans in the future. They haven't said anything about a mini can though.
I wouldn't sweat getting a 51T mount for a second. Pick up a spare mount when you get a chance and they'll last you a long time.... through the next 3 - 4 mount systems that they'll come up with.
That mini is a nice can, and PERFECT for a gas gun.
kymudder08
11-21-12, 13:49
Oh wow, that kind of scares me. I'm somewhat waiting till tax time before the purchase anyways. Maybe they'll make the change by then
kymudder08
11-21-12, 13:53
Also, one of my uppers is already a 14.5 pin/weld from the factory. My gunsmith/SOT manufacturer said that its possible to remove the pin and put a new brake on. Destroying the flash hider in the process but it should be ok from what he says
I wouldn't sweat getting a 51T mount for a second. Pick up a spare mount when you get a chance and they'll last you a long time.... through the next 3 - 4 mount systems that they'll come up with.
That mini is a nice can, and PERFECT for a gas gun.
Eh.... If the 51T was a SOLID mount, maybe I might agree. But it's not. It's OKAY but that's about it's best description, better than their 18T but that was shitty. If someone had the older Surefire mounts, fine, stick with it if you like, they aren't bad. Or Gem-Tech's Halo that attaches to A2 style flash hiders, fine, at least you have options. If you're already into 51T on your rifles, fine.
But to be fresh and go with the marginal 51T knowing something better is coming to replace it? Nah, that's bad advice.
Pick up a spare mount? What about when AAC releases a new can and it's only for their new mount? I wouldn't be worried about not being able to get the mounts themselves, but rather being pushed out of any new options further down the line.
There's been some bad 18ts... and some 51ts that don't lock solid.
The 51t can be modded to get it to lock up to the next click.
Unless there's a can IN STOCK, at a dealer, I'll never wait on these clowns in the industry. Plus, who's to say that this new stupid mount is any better than the last mediocre mounts???
We run about 8 or 9 of those 51t mounts and none of them are problems worth hollering about.
There's been some bad 18ts... and some 51ts that don't lock solid.
The 51t can be modded to get it to lock up to the next click.
Ok, all the 18T I've seen are horrible, and why would you recommend a design that needs to be modded?
Unless there's a can IN STOCK, at a dealer, I'll never wait on these clowns in the industry. Plus, who's to say that this new stupid mount is any better than the last mediocre mounts???
Fair enough. I wouldn't recommend any untested mount, just letting the OP know 51T isn't great and it's being phased out. If someone wanted a great mount I'm pretty sure the Sufefire socoms are going to be an improvement over their last mount which was adored by plenty. The Saker's mount looks good as well, but no one really knows on that. As for AAC's 90T, I read on forums (which must be the truth!) the taper lock seized up easily and that's why it's being redesigned.
We run about 8 or 9 of those 51t mounts and none of them are worth hollering about.
Fixed it for you :)
OP: Mark is right about one thing at least. Look around at your options, and keep an eye on the market, but don't lock into ANYTHING that is not in stock at your/a dealer. I wouldn't go so far as to call the larger shops "clowns" but I would agree there has been a distinct lack of money being taken from customers when it comes to the newest designs.
If you're looking at buying around tax time, I would say look around in a couple months at your options, but don't obsess over anything that isn't in stock. Fwiw, I'd go with Surefire's new mini over the mini4 until AAC updates their mount.
I would not pin and weld ANY mount until you have the can purchased.
Speaking from experience with my SDN-6, mine locks up nice and tight with all my 51t mounts. However, a buddy of mine had issues with his and modified his mounts to correct it with no luck. I am satisfied with my can, but if I were to do it all over again I would buy a Surefire. They are more exspensive, but they have a quality product. Just my opinion.
kymudder08
11-21-12, 16:29
I'm not spending $1300 on a can before the tax stamp. Especially when what I've read the surefire isn't worth the $4-500 more over the mini4 and certainly not spending that much bc a couple people have issues or are extremely picky about the mount. And about not buying a can that's not in stock at a dealer.. I called today and they said they don't have one but AAC has them in stock and would only take 2-3 weeks to get. That's not really a big concern for me. If I could find another company with a brake/flash hider mount that looks similar to the AAC products and still gets the same reviews and is similar in price id consider them. But unless I find one, I'm sticking to the mini4 with 51T mount whether its obsolete next year or not. If everyone worried about how obsolete product A was gonna be next year (be it a vehicle or that latest flat screen tv), them nobody would buy anything. It's part of it, and it's not like the can is gonna stop working when something new comes out lol. I hate that elitism BS
I'm not spending $1300 on a can before the tax stamp. Especially when what I've read the surefire isn't worth the $4-500 more over the mini4 and certainly not spending that much bc a couple people have issues or are extremely picky about the mount. And about not buying a can that's not in stock at a dealer.. I called today and they said they don't have one but AAC has them in stock and would only take 2-3 weeks to get. That's not really a big concern for me. If I could find another company with a brake/flash hider mount that looks similar to the AAC products and still gets the same reviews and is similar in price id consider them. But unless I find one, I'm sticking to the mini4 with 51T mount whether its obsolete next year or not. If everyone worried about how obsolete product A was gonna be next year (be it a vehicle or that latest flat screen tv), them nobody would buy anything. It's part of it, and it's not like the can is gonna stop working when something new comes out lol. I hate that elitism BS
Wow.... well.... you can lead a horse to water...
I wish I had a dollar every time a dealer or silencer mfg said "Two Weeks". And unlike a car or flat screen TV, you're buying a Gov regulated part that has a horrible secondary market, so what you buy you'll pretty much be stuck with forever.
As far as what you've read... In this post two people who have experience with AAC mounts are recommending surefire. One guy says to modify the AAC mount to get it to work. Etc Etc. I would look into the Saker if you're concerned that much with price.
But hey, if you want to learn a lesson the hard way, have fun. I'll promise I won't toss practical recommendations... erm "elitist bs" your way :D
justlikeanyoneelse
11-21-12, 16:52
I'll promise I won't toss practical recommendations... erm "elitist bs" your way :D
:lol:
kymudder08
11-21-12, 16:56
I'm not worried about being stuck with it, I never sell my firearms or related products. 2 people isn't a world view. You just seem bent out of shape bc I won't take your word as the gospel. I asked how the mini4 attached, not which suppressor to get
justlikeanyoneelse
11-21-12, 17:14
Only you can decide and buy the suppressor that is right for you.
On that note if you do want to go the AAC route, try waiting for the 90t to come out like others have recommended. Waiting sucks but in the NFA world you will wait no matter what.
How come you want the mini4? Why not a full size suppressor?
I only ask because when I got my mini I wanted the rifle to be as short and compact as possible. Yet If I were to do it all over again I would have gotten the full size.
kymudder08
11-21-12, 17:20
I want a mini mainly due to weight and size, and so it's not so long on my 20" ar. I've got a complete 14.5 spikes pinned/weld, 16" bcm complete, and a 20" bcm. At first I was looking into the m4 2000 until I heard a few videos with the 4 5.56 AAC cans shot side by side and there wasn't alot of difference between the mini and the 2000. So I figure why have all the weight and length if its not a huge difference
I hate that elitism BS
Not sure why you stated that, but moving forward, above was my honest opinion. If you have you mind set on the mini4, go right ahead.
Video doesn't accurately capture gunshots, suppressed or unsuppressed. That said I'm a fan of mini cans. Right now you should be able to get a Surefire for $300 more than an AAC and that is what I recommend.
everyusernametaken
11-21-12, 18:08
Silvers said a few months ago that the 90T was at least a year out. As I recall, it was a matter of still having a huge volume of sales in the contract pipeline for the 51T platform. Maybe he can clarify a bit more, as he is a member here. Or you can get some more insight over on silencertalk.
el_chingoton13
11-21-12, 18:23
http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=3174
I bought this about a month ago and it just arrived at my dealer. At just over $50 more than what my dealer charges for an m42k and $150 more than a mini4, I think I got a steal. The size is right in between the two. YMMV
The AAC SR5 and SR7 90T suppressor a were cancelled months ago. I found out in June and there is an AAC letter out to that effect. They apparently couldn't get the new 90T mounting system to work correctly.
Shocking! :p
Shit I still run 18ts on my guns with no problems... I know there's been some issues with both 18t and 51ts... but most are just fine.
I still think the 51T mount will be the better mount and will be around for a long time. My M4-2000 is solid on two seperate mounts. That new Surfire system does seem awesome though. I would love to give one a try...
I'm not spending $1300 on a can before the tax stamp. Especially when what I've read the surefire isn't worth the $4-500 more over the mini4 and certainly not spending that much bc a couple people have issues or are extremely picky about the mount.
Get a street price on Surefire's before making that comparison. Mine was over $400 off the MSRP.
First, a mini size silencer is not ideal for your first silencer. They are a specialty item made for specific purposes and you will be disappointed with it for general shooting on a wide variety of guns.
Second, AAC 51T is two generations behind Surefire RC silencers. The RCs solve every problem with fast attach silencers, such as wobble, group size increase, exposed teeth, etc.
I would not buy a .223 silencer. I would buy a Surefire RC .308 and you can use it on any caliber .30 or smaller and it is also rated for magnum centerfire rifle cartridges. The AAC 51T are not rated for magnum cartridges.
The .308 RC can be used on your AR-15, a .308 bolt gun, and any hunting rifle like a .243, .22-250, .30-06 etc. You get the most versatility with this option.
The larger .308 bore will also help reduce baffle strikes if you run this on AR-15s with short barrels with unstable bullets.
AAC 51T was state of the art in 2006, it is now obsolete.
Having the shortest, lightest silencer is not important.
What is important is having a heavy duty silencer that will last a lifetime because you can't get rid of it, that has consistent minimal point of aim shift, and no group size increase.
I have been owning and using both systems extensively and I have been phasing out AAC 51T in my personal collection and moving over to Surefire RCs.
Lawnchair 04
11-25-12, 11:03
So what is the going street price on the surefires vs the aac's these days. I'm in the same boat, about to dive into the suppressor world.
When I bought my 556-212, it was within $190 of the M42000, the other can I was looking at.
Lawnchair 04
11-25-12, 11:26
Damn guess I have more research to do
Shoulderthinggoesup
11-25-12, 14:14
Having the shortest, lightest silencer is not important.
A bold claim, not know OPs intended use. Even assuming recreational purposes only, OP may do shoot house/cqb completions and want to keep OAL down. There are plenty of reasons to want a short, light can.
Also, everyone saying "wait for the next version" are CRAZY when it comes to suppressors. I have never seen an industry so full of vaporware and delays.
A bold claim, not know OPs intended use. Even assuming recreational purposes only, OP may do shoot house/cqb completions and want to keep OAL down. There are plenty of reasons to want a short, light can.
Also, everyone saying "wait for the next version" are CRAZY when it comes to suppressors. I have never seen an industry so full of vaporware and delays.
The OP is new and doesn't know what he wants. He has no experience. That is evident by the questions he is asking.
Someone could argue all day about +/-2" on a silencer/barrel combo and every combination of barrel and silencer length.
It will not matter in the real world.
If the OP doesn't have a 30 caliber I see no purpose in getting a 30 cal can. The new surefire 5.56 cans have increased clearances so there's not point in going to 30 cal and sacrificing suppression because one is scared of baffle strikes.
Polymerhead
11-25-12, 16:49
I've got a 762SD and mounts on two ARs and two bolt guns. All lock up solid. I've been looking at adding a Mini4 to the collection simply to take the blast out of my SBR without the added weight and length of the 762SD. I see no reason to switch to another system when I'm vested in the 51-tooth mount.
Hard to find first hand experiences though - there must not be a ton of mini4s out in the public's hands.
FlyingHunter
11-25-12, 17:03
Shocking! :p
Shit I still run 18ts on my guns with no problems... I know there's been some issues with both 18t and 51ts... but most are just fine.
I've had my 18t for a long time and a lot of rounds down range and like markm, I've never had the first problem. I just bought a new 18t so I can mount on my newest 5.56. How cool was this, it was in stock over the counter at my local gun store, less than $100 bucks, and the nice folks mounted it on my new rifle for free. Still shooting...
If the OP doesn't have a 30 caliber I see no purpose in getting a 30 cal can. The new surefire 5.56 cans have increased clearances so there's not point in going to 30 cal and sacrificing suppression because one is scared of baffle strikes.
The amount of sound difference between a .223 and a .308 can on a .223 is not noticeable by the human ear.
JBecker 72
11-25-12, 18:46
First, a mini size silencer is not ideal for your first silencer. They are a specialty item made for specific purposes and you will be disappointed with it for general shooting on a wide variety of guns.
Second, AAC 51T is two generations behind Surefire RC silencers. The RCs solve every problem with fast attach silencers, such as wobble, group size increase, exposed teeth, etc.
I would not buy a .223 silencer. I would buy a Surefire RC .308 and you can use it on any caliber .30 or smaller and it is also rated for magnum centerfire rifle cartridges. The AAC 51T are not rated for magnum cartridges.
The .308 RC can be used on your AR-15, a .308 bolt gun, and any hunting rifle like a .243, .22-250, .30-06 etc. You get the most versatility with this option.
The larger .308 bore will also help reduce baffle strikes if you run this on AR-15s with short barrels with unstable bullets.
AAC 51T was state of the art in 2006, it is now obsolete.
Having the shortest, lightest silencer is not important.
What is important is having a heavy duty silencer that will last a lifetime because you can't get rid of it, that has consistent minimal point of aim shift, and no group size increase.
I have been owning and using both systems extensively and I have been phasing out AAC 51T in my personal collection and moving over to Surefire RCs.
This right here is exactly why I will be going with a Surefire RC 7.62 for my first can. Seems like the best bet and worth the slight increase in initial cost.
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2
Either way, no point in getting a 30cal can if the OP doesn't have anything in the caliber. The 556K cans were tighter diameter but the modern surefire cans have increased the diameter a bit. And as long as you're shooting SAAMI spec stuff, SF will rebuild it no problem in the event of a strike.
Either way, no point in getting a 30cal can if the OP doesn't have anything in the caliber. The 556K cans were tighter diameter but the modern surefire cans have increased the diameter a bit. And as long as you're shooting SAAMI spec stuff, SF will rebuild it no problem in the event of a strike.
Your post is intentionally misleading.
The manufacturer is no longer allowed to rebuild a can per a 2008 ATF ruling.
They make you a new one with a new serial number and the owner has to pay another $200 NFA tax.
"Rebuilding" a can is not free.
Your post is intentionally misleading.
The manufacturer is no longer allowed to rebuild a can per a 2008 ATF ruling.
They make you a new one with a new serial number and the owner has to pay another $200 NFA tax.
"Rebuilding" a can is not free.
I think you're using a different definition of "rebuild."
I think you're using a different definition of "rebuild."
If you get a baffle strike in a modern centerfire rifle silencer, the only way to rebuilt it is to make a new silencer because the whole thing is welded together.
Quit trying to weasel around this issue.
If you get a baffle strike in a modern centerfire rifle silencer, the only way to rebuilt it is to make a new silencer because the whole thing is welded together.
Quit trying to weasel around this issue.
Actually I think that new can from Saker or something has a removable end cap. Maybe it has baffles that are removable too?
And that's not rebuilding, scottryan, that's making a new silencer. Your argument should be "you cannot rebuild a modern centerfire silencer" not "the only way to rebuilt it is to make a new silencer."
Your post is intentionally misleading.
The manufacturer is no longer allowed to rebuild a can per a 2008 ATF ruling.
They make you a new one with a new serial number and the owner has to pay another $200 NFA tax.
"Rebuilding" a can is not free.
Ok ya got me, apologize for the wording.
And don't tell me what my intentions are.
ETA: my post should've been in 'bold'
Ok ya got me, apologize for the wording.
And don't tell me what my intentions are.
ETA: my post should've been in 'bold'
Yeah man, bold is the new black.
Actually I think that new can from Saker or something has a removable end cap. Maybe it has baffles that are removable too?
And that's not rebuilding, scottryan, that's making a new silencer. Your argument should be "you cannot rebuild a modern centerfire silencer" not "the only way to rebuilt it is to make a new silencer."
:rolleyes:
First, a mini size silencer is not ideal for your first silencer. They are a specialty item made for specific purposes and you will be disappointed with it for general shooting on a wide variety of guns.
Second, AAC 51T is two generations behind Surefire RC silencers. The RCs solve every problem with fast attach silencers, such as wobble, group size increase, exposed teeth, etc.
I would not buy a .223 silencer. I would buy a Surefire RC .308 and you can use it on any caliber .30 or smaller and it is also rated for magnum centerfire rifle cartridges. The AAC 51T are not rated for magnum cartridges.
The .308 RC can be used on your AR-15, a .308 bolt gun, and any hunting rifle like a .243, .22-250, .30-06 etc. You get the most versatility with this option.
The larger .308 bore will also help reduce baffle strikes if you run this on AR-15s with short barrels with unstable bullets.
AAC 51T was state of the art in 2006, it is now obsolete.
Having the shortest, lightest silencer is not important.
What is important is having a heavy duty silencer that will last a lifetime because you can't get rid of it, that has consistent minimal point of aim shift, and no group size increase.
I have been owning and using both systems extensively and I have been phasing out AAC 51T in my personal collection and moving over to Surefire RCs.
Greetings,
The use of the 7.62 mm SOCOM Series suppressors for 5.56 mm makes sense to me. However, afer looking at the SureFire web site, what SureFire Flash Hider/Suppressor Adapter would I use on a 5.56 AR-15 (M4)? I see the SureFire SF3P-556-1/2-28 three-prong flash hider, which fits M4/M16 weapons and variants with 1/2x28 muzzle threads, but I do not see an adapter specifically for 1/2x28 that would fit a 7.62 mm SureFire suppressor.
Any suggestion would be appreciated.
This post edited due to subsequent research after my initial post.
Thanks to "Noodles" response below for answering my question. Also . . . a little research after I posted my question yielded the following answer as well (post #51 in the following thread on SureFire SOCOM RC suppressors):
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=109036&page=3
Yes the 7.62 or 6.8 suppressors work with the 5.56 adapters. Just like the older suppressor system . . .
Yes, You can use the 30cal Socom cans on any of the socom mounts whether it was the 1/2x28 AR or the 5/8x24 or whatever.
I haven't seen able to find out if they allow for stupid users to out the 556 can on the 30cal mount or not yet though. That would require a one way incompatible tongue and groove or length change. Not sure if this exists as a feature. If I does and they offer 338 socom cans, I'll be interested to see if they have a stacking incompatible feature that allows for larger bore on smaller mount only.
As for Scotty and pals argument, the latest AAC cans that are unreleased (pending, not cancelled like someone else said), have their serial and info on the solid mount portion of the can not the more fragile tube. The idea being that in a can failure the mount part of the can can be cut off and placed on to a new tube and baffle stack which does not count as making a new silencer, just repairing. This is a better way to engrave / plan for warranty issues. Seen first that I know about on the SiCo Osprey cans.
Your post is intentionally misleading.
The manufacturer is no longer allowed to rebuild a can per a 2008 ATF ruling.
They make you a new one with a new serial number and the owner has to pay another $200 NFA tax.
"Rebuilding" a can is not free.
I've had a modern can recored. I don't know how they did it... That's none of my business.
I've had a modern can recored. I don't know how they did it... That's none of my business.
What do you mean by "recored"?
If you have a baffle strike that hits an internal baffle(s) and the end cap, the only way this can be repaired correctly is to make a new silencer.
The bore of a modern centerfire silencer is wire EDM all at once through all the baffles and end cap.
Actually I think that new can from Saker or something has a removable end cap. Maybe it has baffles that are removable too?
No, the saker has a superficial switchable "endcap", but it's not the actual endcap, and all the baffles are welded inside.
(no attack on the Saker, it looks to be a great can. We'll know more when they get into the wild)
What do you mean by "recored"?
If you have a baffle strike that hits an internal baffle(s) and the end cap, the only way this can be repaired correctly is to make a new silencer.
The bore of a modern centerfire silencer is wire EDM all at once through all the baffles and end cap.
I assume they cut the core away from the outer tube and put a new one in, then EDM'd a bore. I sent them a can with the outline of a bullet through the baffles and end cap and I got back a can that looked new and unfired. This from a company known to do tax paid transfer when they replace an outer tube.
As long as the side of the silencer (the "tube") that has the serial number isn't punctured, an SOT can repair or "rebuild" the silencer by removing the baffles and replacing them ("recoring"). You aren't allowed to do it yourself and a new tube can't be made with the same serial number. Bendsquint over on silencertalk does just this sort of thing. I imagine it's tedious.
You can see a nod to this legal reality in Silencerco's Osprey design and AAC's Ranger 3 design. They both allow for repair in most cases of a round exiting the side of the tube (or severe baffle damage) since the tube is sectioned- the rearmost section being the part with the serial number, the only part that can't be replaced, and the least likely place on the tube for a round to exit.
kymudder08
12-09-12, 03:01
just because im new to the suppressor world does NOT mean im new to the world of shooting and competition. you dont know my intentions or my background. ive shot a few suppressors and completely understand that suppressors have limits and its not like hollywood. never assume anything because that makes an ASS out of U and ME...
also, there are suppressor companies like the huntertown arms that make suppressors that come apart and you can clean the guts or replace baffles if there is a strike.
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