View Full Version : Fleece vs. insulated loft jackets
wild_wild_wes
11-22-12, 14:25
I seem to be seeing more use of insulated jackets (feathers/down or synthetic loft) and less emphesis on fleece. What is the best use for each, and which situations are each best used for?
F-Trooper05
11-22-12, 14:40
Coreloft/PrimaLoft are lighter and easier to pack. Fleece is often cheaper, and sometimes warmer.
I live in Alaska, and my winter jacket is an Arcteryx Beta AR shell with either an Atom LT Hoodie or Apache Fleece. The Fleece is warmer, but the Atom LT is lighter and more convenient. When I'm predator hunting, or doing anything at -20 to -40, I wear all three at the same time and I still freeze my ass off.
Down is only good for extreme cold IMO. It's terribly expensive, and if it gets wet it's ****ed.
The Arcteryx atom is nice cause it packs down so well...i have the half zip version and its pretty warm for what it is.
Some generalizations I've noticed in the COTS market:
Synthetic/Down:
- Greater capacity to insulate
- Increased compact-ability
- Lighter weight (due to exterior fabric)
- Exterior tends to snag and tear more easily (couple of brands/products are an exception to this)
- Layers more easily (think fleece on fleece...)
Fleece:
- Less expensive
- Usually more durable to abrasion and tears
- Increased breathability (depending on type)
- Large assortment (Windproof, high loft, gridded)
Hybrid Synthetic/Down and Fleece:
- Highly popular and versatile
- Best of both worlds, insulates core while breathing in high heat areas
- Can be versatile depending on design, however it can be niche too (think hybrid down/fleece)
Brands/Products that stand out:
- Wild Things Insulight (Plus you can custom select density of insulation)
- Arcteryx Atom LT(Obviously)
- Patagonia (R1, R2, R3, Nanopuff, Down Shirt, Etc.)
- Mont Bell
- TNF (Super Zephyrus, Blaze, Micro Thunder, A-Back Hybrid, Jackson Hybrid, Etc.)
- Marmot
-REI Brand products
- Melanzana
- Eddie Bauer
Keep in mind that in terms of fleece, Polartec is used almost regardless of brand (so long as construction and warranty are good, go for less expensive). Synthetic is usually Primaloft, Coreloft, or Climashield. TNF has a particle treatment to some of their synthetics (for quick drying). Plus new technologies are on the horizon (or to market): Thermoball, Waterproof Down, Merino Wool insulation (Smartwool). I hope this is helpful.
TL;DR Fleece is a great addition to system that requires minimal increased warmth and breathes better. Synthetic/Down provides greater warmth for less weight (depending on the design). Factor in your environment and level of activity to make your choices.
orpheus762x51
11-24-12, 18:33
In my experience, fleece tends to have a hard time keeping you warm without a dedicated outer layer (goretex, etc) because the wind cuts right through it. This is the case with two sweaters I have; one in polartec wind-pro and one in polartec power-stretch FR.
As long as you are planning on wearing a good outer layer, fleece is the better buy. But, if you want something that will stand up to the wind and function better as a stand-alone jacket, something like the Arc'teryx Atom LT is worth looking into.
A62Rambler
11-24-12, 22:19
In my experience, fleece tends to have a hard time keeping you warm without a dedicated outer layer (goretex, etc) because the wind cuts right through it. This is the case with two sweaters I have; one in polartec wind-pro and one in polartec power-stretch FR.
I have two fleece jackets with WindShear and both are excellent at keeping the wind out. However, they leak wind at the zipper. I ride motorcycles year round so I have some pretty intense wind requirements.;)
Cold and dry? Down loft is great. Cold and wet? Not so much. Get goose down wet and you are in trouble. If you need something that will keep you warm even after you are soaked, look into a good, dense wool. The Scots and the Irish know a bit about keeping warm when they are wet....
Cold and dry? Down loft is great. Cold and wet? Not so much. Get goose down wet and you are in trouble. If you need something that will keep you warm even after you are soaked, look into a good, dense wool. The Scots and the Irish know a bit about keeping warm when they are wet....
I agree thats why I still contend with the weight of the WOOL in my hunting gear. Just in case.
wild_wild_wes
11-25-12, 17:31
A bit extreme, but loft seems to be preferred by some in wet conditions...
http://www.tonyrogers.com/news/images/2009_0408_navyseals/alaska_ex_04_580.jpg
http://www.tonyrogers.com/news/images/2009_0408_navyseals/alaska_ex_05_580.jpg
Love those.mil Xtratuffs on that guy's feet :D
I spent last winter in a U.S. Army ECWCS Gen III Level 7 (that's a mouthful) that those guys look like they are wearing in the water. I wear the jacket down to -20F with only a lightweight merino wool shirt and light fleece shirt under it. _-40 F requires the addition of a 200 weight fleece coat also for light activity like riding a snowmachine.
I also own the pants and wear them regularly wear them under my uninsulated Goretex bibs.
I love this stupid coat. Cheap, too, from Ebay.
A bit extreme, but loft seems to be preferred by some in wet conditions...
With those two pics, explained it better than I ever could.
I was part of the test-bed fielding of ECWCS in Alaska about a hundred years ago. It does a good job, if used correctly. At that point, you could get an Article 15 for wearing cotton next to your skin with the ECWCS system. I love the coat. I just wish I could get one in all black.
I was part of the test-bed fielding of ECWCS in Alaska about a hundred years ago. It does a good job, if used correctly. At that point, you could get an Article 15 for wearing cotton next to your skin with the ECWCS system. I love the coat. I just wish I could get one in all black.
What are your thoughts on the Level 7? (IIRC) Climashield insulated pants?
wild_wild_wes
11-28-12, 22:12
It looks like the instructor in the pics above is wearing L7 jacket and trousers, and the students L7 jacket and softshell trousers.
I've always wondered why the L7 set lacks the quilting usually seen on loft garments.
What are your thoughts on the Level 7? (IIRC) Climashield insulated pants?
Don't have any experience with them.
The nylon shell that you need to keep the fills captive reduces breathability considerably, this is the main disadvantage fill has against fleece.
If you are going to be active and you layer with traditional fleece (not windstoper or wind-pro, etc) then you can shed your shell layer and make use of that breathability, then shell back up when you stop moving or the conditions change.
Think of fill jackets as lighter weight fleeces with windbreakers laminated to them. You are cutting weight, but reducing some flexibility in how you adjust your layers to make your activity level and the conditions you're in.
I wear my Atom LT all the time, but it doesn't replace a micro-fleece and a wind shell when I'm outside and active for extended periods of time (backpacking or whatever). The Atom is fantastic for my "around town" usage where I want comfort and convenience. The fact that it's feather-weight is just a bonus that I don't take full advantage of.
Some writing I did on the subject a while back... (http://www.firearmstrainingandtactics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34)
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