View Full Version : Walther PPQ M2
So according to Walther forums, some entries on Grabagun reference the new PPX as well as a PPQ M2 being a 5" barreled gun.
That would be an absolutely EXCELLENT production class uspsa/idpa gun!
I want one threaded to go with my PPQ FE! I think Walther is stepping up their game big time.
Hogsgunwild
11-24-12, 15:15
Thanks for the heads-up. Reading the Walther forum via googling the PPQ M2 also showed a link to Grabagun's listing for the Walther R100 .45 caliber 1911. No pictures of either the .40 or the .45 Walthers.
I hope that Walther's version of a 1911 is a departure from a traditional 1911. Polymer with the PPQ's trigger would actually be useful to me.
That 5" .40 cal PPQ will probably be much more practical than the standard length .40 PPQ. I own the standard and due to it's light weight (and probably the high bore axis although that never bothered me on the 9MM PPQ), the .40 is a serious handful. I wish that I owned the 5" instead of mine, but, am glad that this is becoming and option.
The Dumb Gun Collector
11-24-12, 15:21
I think that .45 is a Umarex turd.
I think that .45 is a Umarex turd.
That may be the case, we'll see. I have no interest either way.
The PPQ M2 is going to make me get in line for another raven holster though! Crap.
I think the R100 has been out for a bit - it's sold as the 'Regent R100' here, just another of the sub-$500 budget 1911s.
Just found info on some of the distributor sites, that there is definitely a standard mag release coming for the PPQ M2, ala the new PPX. And new mags...
But no mention of any PPQ M2 with the German/Euro mag release on any site...
Magic_Salad0892
12-05-12, 11:44
That's ****in' full retard. Why wouldn't they just all use the same magazines. :|
That's ****in' full retard. Why wouldn't they just all use the same magazines. :|
My GUESS is that with them offering a standard magazine release version... That they are looking at the the same thing the happened to Glock with the Gen4, where they needed a magazine with an additional cut to work left or right side.
So it's likely a PPQ mag will work in a PPQ M2 with when the reversible standard release is set to the right side, but a PPQ M2 mag might be needed when the release is configured to the left side. The same way Gen3 mags work in Gen4 guns.
Could be wholly incompatible though. Who knows... I'm just curious if they are going to continue with the trigger guard release at all. Which if they didn't would be a damn shame, but understandable.
Magic_Salad0892
12-05-12, 12:11
My GUESS is that with them offering a standard magazine release version... That they are looking at the the same thing the happened to Glock with the Gen4, where they needed a magazine with an additional cut to work left or right side.
So it's likely a PPQ mag will work in a PPQ M2 with when the reversible standard release is set to the right side, but a PPQ M2 mag might be needed when the release is configured to the left side. The same way Gen3 mags work in Gen4 guns.
Could be wholly incompatible though. Who knows... I'm just curious if they are going to continue with the trigger guard release at all. Which if they didn't would be a damn shame, but understandable.
IMHO, I think they should be doing the opposite, they need to phase out the JMB style magazine release. I've always been a fan of the European paddle style magazine release, and I wish it's what Glock used.
IMHO, I think they should be doing the opposite, they need to phase out the JMB style magazine release. I've always been a fan of the European paddle style magazine release, and I wish it's what Glock used.
Well neither of us are in charge. My guess is that that's the single biggest feature they get flack over. People complaining (some sort of rightfully so) that they can shoot Walther or Other but not both. Or they get rednecks squawking about fine motor skills or how it's just weird or some BS. I won't lie though, after carrying the PPQ for a year now, I will occasionally hit the trigger guard to drop a mag on an M&P or Glock :p
I'm not saying they are going to outright dump it. I just don't see any backend dealer stuff that says PPQ M2 without also saying Standard Mag Release except GrabAGun and the are only 1 or 4 places, and they have the same part number for both parts!
I suspect even if they are phasing out, the current PPQ 4" will still be offered. I just don't see the M2 5", M2 4", or M2 4" Navy/Threaded offered yet without standard mag release. It could certainly be coming.
That said, given the option, how many LGS do you think will order the standard vs German mag release???? My bet is they get more orders for Standard/American.
Magic_Salad0892
12-05-12, 12:23
Well neither of us are in charge. My guess is that that's the single biggest feature they get flack over. People complaining (some sort of rightfully so) that they can shoot Walther or Other but not both. Or they get rednecks squawking about fine motor skills or how it's just weird or some BS. I won't lie though, after carrying the PPQ for a year now, I will occasionally hit the trigger guard to drop a mag on an M&P or Glock :p
I'm not saying they are going to outright dump it. I just don't see any backend dealer stuff that says PPQ M2 without also saying Standard Mag Release except GrabAGun and the are only 1 or 4 places, and they have the same part number for both parts!
I suspect even if they are phasing out, the current PPQ 4" will still be offered. I just don't see the M2 5", M2 4", or M2 4" Navy/Threaded offered yet without standard mag release. It could certainly be coming.
That said, given the option, how many LGS do you think will order the standard vs German mag release???? My bet is they get more orders for Standard/American.
You're probably right, to be honest. It's just sad to see them do it, because their long time customers have always seen it as a desirable feature.
Walther is going to be releasing quite a few new pistols based on their already popular designs next year. There is going to be a .22lr of the PPK/S as well as those 5" PPQs. It looks as if this is a move they are going to make once they split from S&W on Jan 1st and set up shop in the US to increase their presence.
I'm looking forward to this as I am very interested in purchasing a PPQ or two. With their transition away from S&W I hope their marketing, customer support, parts availability, etc. make huge strides.
Hopefully Umarex doesn't screw up the fantastic job Walther has been doing thus far.
all I want for Christmas is a .45 PPQ.....oh and some ****n mags:dance3:
I've had a 45 Walther for years now---its just labeled SW99 45 AUTO (ACP)---not expensive either...
Rocketman, S&W CS has them (PPQ in 9mm and .40) for around $65 each last time I called. So does Earls.
My hope is Jan 1, the new facility dumps a semi load of PPQ mags on the US market. And parts like the factory threaded barrel etc.
Al
Rocketman, S&W CS has them (PPQ in 9mm and .40) for around $65 each last time I called. So does Earls.
My hope is Jan 1, the new facility dumps a semi load of PPQ mags on the US market. And parts like the factory threaded barrel etc.
Al
Finally found some earlier today...thanks for looking out though
Magic_Salad0892
12-07-12, 18:32
Rocketman, S&W CS has them (PPQ in 9mm and .40) for around $65 each last time I called. So does Earls.
I blanked out and was like "Where did he buy a PPQ for $65?!?!?!"
I thought I'd bump this thread just to point out that Noodles was absolutely right. There is a PPQ M2 that will be released with the standard push-button mag release, according to a post from the head of Walther Arms, posted on the Walther forum.
To give you a sneak preview, we will be launching three new products at the SHOT Show on the 15th of January. I can't give exacts, but the first is a PPX, a hammer fired .9mm or .40 S&W pistol, full featured and full length. The second is a new version of the PPQ M2....new magazine release on the grip that is ambidexterous and a new PPK/S in .22 LR.
http://www.waltherforums.com/forum/walther-forum-announcements/26196-walther-arms-inc-now-facebook-twitter-2.html
Hopefully they still offer pistols here with the paddle release.
So they'll announce them at SHOT, but when they release them is any ones guess.
Hammer fired push button mag release makes no sense to me really. Unless they are trying to compete with the FNX?
It's good to see Walther Arms proactively reaching out to the community. Hopefully the AWB nonsense dies down and Walther cranks out PPQ's, PPX(?) and parts for below what S&W was asking.
Allen
Hopefully they still offer pistols here with the paddle release.
Well.... That's the question isn't it?....
Hogsgunwild
12-23-12, 10:35
I had initially been indifferent to (if not actually shunning) this new Walther offering with the button mag release.
I recently completed a class where one classmate made a comment regarding another classmate stating: "How did he (being left-handed)
perform his reloads so fast?". This made me think about my situation.
I am a lefty and carry my Walther PPQs. But I still like to shoot some button style mag release guns and often carry my S&W Shield.
I know that this is not an optimal way to go. I do it because I have still not finalized what platform I will end up carrying, forever (meaning until something better comes along).
It hit me today, while dry firing my M&P .45 midsize, that my left-hand reloads may actually be faster with the button style release than the paddle release (and I have really liked the paddle style). With so many years of using a button style release under my belt and the fact that I will probably always shoot and perhaps even carry guns with a button release in conjunction with the paddle release, I realized that Walther may be giving me something that I desperately need and something that could solve my dilemma (mainly carrying a Shield and a PPQ).
I hope that Walther's new models are as slick as their original PPQ as
I am (all of a sudden) extremely interested in them.
Has anyone at Shot Show heard anything on when the Walther PPQ M2 will start shipping to dealers?
The M2 will start shipping soon, according to the Walther rep at SHOT. He was a very knowledgeable person, unlike most other spokesmen at SHOT. Eventually, the original PPQ will be phased out as they are not planning to build both of them.
The M2 will start shipping soon, according to the Walther rep at SHOT. He was a very knowledgeable person, unlike most other spokesmen at SHOT. Eventually, the original PPQ will be phased out as they are not planning to build both of them.
Well that f'ing blows....are they going to replace the frames and magazines of my 4 other PPQs, so I can join the cool kids club? No, of course they won't
This irritates me to no end
The Walther rep I spoke with thought that the original version might ship as a limited run from time to time, but the M2 will be standard.
I will admit I am no metallurgist
But it would seem to me that there has to be a way to make the magazines compatible....like M2 mags would work in the originals, not vice versa
My concern is, I spent a lot of time and money adopting this model, and I'm essentially being hung out to dry when it comes to support because I was an early adopter
Someone at SHOT please ask the reps how available mags for the "m1" ppqs will be
My concern is, I spent a lot of time and money adopting this model, and I'm essentially being hung out to dry when it comes to support because I was an early adopter
The only part that may be hard to find in the near future, is the frame itself.
The mag, and mag release are the same as the ones that are used in the P99, and everything else will interchange with the PPQ M2.
I had initially been indifferent to (if not actually shunning) this new Walther offering with the button mag release.
I recently completed a class where one classmate made a comment regarding another classmate stating: "How did he (being left-handed)
perform his reloads so fast?". This made me think about my situation.
I am a lefty and carry my Walther PPQs. But I still like to shoot some button style mag release guns and often carry my S&W Shield.
I know that this is not an optimal way to go. I do it because I have still not finalized what platform I will end up carrying, forever (meaning until something better comes along).
It hit me today, while dry firing my M&P .45 midsize, that my left-hand reloads may actually be faster with the button style release than the paddle release (and I have really liked the paddle style). With so many years of using a button style release under my belt and the fact that I will probably always shoot and perhaps even carry guns with a button release in conjunction with the paddle release, I realized that Walther may be giving me something that I desperately need and something that could solve my dilemma (mainly carrying a Shield and a PPQ).
I hope that Walther's new models are as slick as their original PPQ as
I am (all of a sudden) extremely interested in them.
I'm a left handed shooter too and I contend that standard right hand pistols suit me better than they do right handers. I prefer the standard button mag releases like on a Glock or the new PPQM2s. I operate them quickly and efficiently with the trigger finger of my strong hand, while retrieving a fresh mag with my right hand. Works well for me anyway.
I handled the PPQM2 at shot. Fantastic piece. Loved everything about it. Only wish I could have shot it.
I also picked up a paddle release Walther and didn't care for that at all. Reaching for it with the strong side trigger finger was an awkward stretch, operating it with thumb of the support hand is significantly slower than a one handed reload. Couldn't reach it at all with strong side thumb.
As a lefty, I don't mind shooting right handed pistols either. I can operate the slide release easily enough with my thumb and the mag release with my index finger, but I do like the paddle release and ambi slide release on the PPQ.
I thought it was awkward with my index finger as well, but once I started doing it with my middle finger it was better.
I do have to be conscious of my weak hand and the slide on the right side though or I'll stop it from locking back.
I will try an M2, but I think I like the paddle better than the button. I have accidentally hit the button before with my palm, never with a paddle. I don't shoot that much though.
I have a paddle release on my PPS and on my PPQ. I like it fine. If I'd had the choice, I probably would have opted for the ambidextrous button mag release but I have no problem with either concept. Going forward, I do have some concerns about availability of PPQ magazines in the future once the paddle release version is phased out.
I also picked up a paddle release Walther and didn't care for that at all. Reaching for it with the strong side trigger finger was an awkward stretch, operating it with thumb of the support hand is significantly slower than a one handed reload. Couldn't reach it at all with strong side thumb.
Um... Dude, you're doing it wrong. You are supposed to use your middle or trigger finger on the strong hand. No wonder you didn't like it.:lol:
I really prefer middle finger of strong hand, once I figured that out, the lightbulb went on.
I have a paddle release on my PPS and on my PPQ. I like it fine. If I'd had the choice, I probably would have opted for the ambidextrous button mag release but I have no problem with either concept. Going forward, I do have some concerns about availability of PPQ magazines in the future once the paddle release version is phased out.
That's funny, I have concerned the other way, about getting M2 mags! The PPQ uses P99/SW99/MR9 (magnum research)/PPQ mags, the M2 only uses M2.
Although someone on Waltherforums hoped that the notches would align with the 92FS which is what the P88/P99/PPQ mag is derived from. I almost certainly know that won't work, but it would be interesting to modify those mags to work.
I'm planning on selling my PPQ to buy a couple M2s if they become available, but I'm going to need a couple guns and extra mags in hand before I list that paddle release PPQ.
That's funny, I have concerned the other way, about getting M2 mags! The PPQ uses P99/SW99/MR9 (magnum research)/PPQ mags, the M2 only uses M2.
Good point. I have a few MR9 Eagle mags and they are flawless in the PPQ.
I wonder if Magnum Research will be switching over to the button mag release on the MR9 Eagle too. IIUC, they get the polymer frames direct from Walther.
I wonder if Magnum Research will be switching over to the button mag release on the MR9 Eagle too. IIUC, they get the polymer frames direct from Walther.
My guess is that they won't.
The MR9 and MR40 are P99 AS copies, and I don't see Walther making any drastic changes to the P99 mag release anytime soon. They have agency contracts all around the world for both the P99 and P99Q, and I doubt they want to make that large of a change for a set of pistols that seem to be their bread and butter when it comes to LE and Military sales.
As long as the P99 is still being produced, parts shouldn't be an issues for the original PPQ pistols.
I'd like to LOVE Walther's recent offerings, by all accounts the PPQ kicks ass.
But they seem to be a company without any real roadmap to what they are making... aka, a subcompact PPQ?
JMO,
Noodles... And when you do sell that FE.. I better be receiving an e-mail about it!.. I was told second week in February for the M2, also trying to get one of these in 40 cal.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dMVkn5QP_cw&feature=mhee
Love the economic grip they describe in the video, haha
Also apparently Walther Arms recieved their first shipment.. Huh.
I'd like to LOVE Walther's recent offerings, by all accounts the PPQ kicks ass.
But they seem to be a company without any real roadmap to what they are making... aka, a subcompact PPQ?
They seem to be expanding their horizons at the moment. Releasing three new models of pistols in one year was unheard of for them previously. I think they are trying to appeal to the US market now, something they never tried for before.
They seem to be expanding their horizons at the moment. Releasing three new models of pistols in one year was unheard of for them previously. I think they are trying to appeal to the US market now, something they never tried for before.
I agree, but with some of the magazine incompatibility and such, it doesn't seem to have a comprehensive plan. Like making a PPS, PPQ, and PPQ Subcompact all with the same trigger types, etc.
Maybe I'm asking too much, or looking to Glock / S&W-M&P, and even to SIG as ways to approach it.
Again, I'm happy they are expanding and starting to take the US market seriously... but it seems kinda all over the map with respect o makes, models, and trigger types. Maybe they'll get it all sorted out.
In that case, then I agree.
The PPQ M2, PPX, and P99 mags will not interchange. I see no reason why at least the push button models like the PPQ M2 and PPX shouldn't share the same mags. It was also disappointing to hear that they were discontinuing the original PPQ.
I'm interested in seeing how well these new models will sell now. I'm assuming they will sell well to people who weren't interested in the paddle mag release, but time will tell.
The paddle release is one of the few things I don't like about my Q. I'm for continuity among my semi hand guns so the m2 button is my preference...fwiw LH
I am absolutely in love with my PPQ, but I just wish I could find some mags for it.
Im glad I got a PPQ when I did. Now I am pretty invested in it with two holsters and 8 magazines.
Paddle release is different, but I actually think people make too big a deal about it. I love it on my HKs and actually reversed the releases on my 2 remaining SIGs to use my trigger finger to release the magazine.
JMO,
MiamiCracker
01-19-13, 17:50
The PPQ was my 1st handgun, and I actually like the paddle release. Easier to get to than my G26 mag release.
High Altitude
01-19-13, 20:26
Can't wait to get ahold of one of the new PPQ. I do not like the paddle release so this is perfect.
My grief with most traditional button releases is that I have to break my grip to hit it.
One of the video reviews of the PPQ M2 from Shot Show 2013 insisted that the M2 button was easily accessible without breaking your grip for somebody with medium sized hands.
I'm curious to try it out now. Maybe I'll get lucky and win the PPQ giveaway on Walther's facebook page.
Gary1911A1
01-20-13, 07:15
I already have extra magazines for my PPQ with paddle releases so I'm just going to stay with it.
Over 35 years of shooting semi-automatic pistols a lot in plinking, training, competition, TAC Team, breaking my grip to hit the button mag release has just been a part of my personal reloading technique. I've changed a lot about my shooting technique over that period...grip, stance, presentation...but I'm pretty entrenched in that same motion on reloads. Now that I've been using the paddle release a fair amount over the last couple of years, I find that I have no trouble switching back and forth between the two, but I still break my grip with the paddle anyway. I'm not any faster or accurate with one vs the other, so I just can't see paddle vs button as a big deal. YMMV.
My grief with most traditional button releases is that I have to break my grip to hit it.
One of the video reviews of the PPQ M2 from Shot Show 2013 insisted that the M2 button was easily accessible without breaking your grip for somebody with medium sized hands.
I'm curious to try it out now. Maybe I'll get lucky and win the PPQ giveaway on Walther's facebook page.
This is true. I honestly think the mag release is to sensitive (needs a stiffer spring).
C4
I hope, despite what is being reported on walther forums, that they keep both paddle and m2 in the lineup.
Cincinnatus
01-20-13, 10:50
My grief with most traditional button releases is that I have to break my grip to hit it.
One of the video reviews of the PPQ M2 from Shot Show 2013 insisted that the M2 button was easily accessible without breaking your grip for somebody with medium sized hands.
I'm curious to try it out now. Maybe I'll get lucky and win the PPQ giveaway on Walther's facebook page.
What giveaway? I have tried to find their Facebook page, and the only one I can find says nothing about a giveaway. Got a link?
Never mind. I found it. It is under Walther Arms. There is a decoy or unofficial page called Walther Firearms, and it is the one I was looking at initially.
People who don't like the paddle, are ususally only using their trigger finger, for me, it's always middle finger, works a ton better in my hands.
I thought about running the M2 in my right hand as a lefty would. That is, the reversible release on the left side of the gun and continuing to use my strong hand middle finger to hit the release. Obvious problem was when holstered, my mag release would be exposed on the outside of my body. Second isssue was, the whole reason I'm planning on selling my QFE (blak, I'll let you know before I list it) is to have commonality with Glock, M&P, etc all with the standard mag releases usually for thumb activation.
The guys on WaltherForums are screaming bloody murder over the button release, I'm sort of looking forward to it so as to have a platform more like my others.
^ +1 thank you Sir :)......... Personally I could care less what release is on the Q as long as the new M2 stays true to the aesthetics and operations.
I dunno why but when I first heard of a M2 release I was under the impression that you could somehow interchange the release from paddle to button. I was very wrong, however if they could some how make this happen and keep the Mags compatible across the board, people would have the best of both worlds. I wouldn't be surprised if in the future something like this comes our way.
^ +1 thank you Sir :)......... Personally I could care less what release is on the Q as long as the new M2 stays true to the aesthetics and operations.
I dunno why but when I first heard of a M2 release I was under he impression that you could somehow interchange the release from paddle to button. I was very wrong, however if they could some how make this happen and keep the Mags compatible across the board, people would have the best of both worlds. I wouldn't be surprised if in the future something like this comes our way.
Don't worry, I'll let you know but you won't be able to afford it :D I'll give you a good deal, but man, I really wish I could sell that now, PPQs going for 1k is crazy!
I need my M2s in hand before I sell the Classic/M1. I'm not getting stuck with a 9mm and only 10 round mags!
As for compatibility... Yea, I'm curious. They must have a plan going forward, like there is a fork in the road that if they change mags now, they can do all the things they'd like to do in the future with that mag. I sort of wonder if a paddle mag release might one day come that takes M2 mags.
The M2 will start shipping soon, according to the Walther rep at SHOT. He was a very knowledgeable person, unlike most other spokesmen at SHOT. Eventually, the original PPQ will be phased out as they are not planning to build both of them.
According to the Walther Arms (USA) Facebook page (http://www.facebook.com/WaltherArms), PPQ-M2's are shipping this week. So far, no evidence that there are any PPQs coming to the US. The only shipments so far appear to be PPQ-M2, P99, PPS, PPX. I note that the paddle-release PPQ version is still listed on Walther's German website (http://www.carl-walther.de/cw.php?lang=de&content=portal&sub=police). Those that just gotta have it might have some luck by calling Earl's (http://www.carlwalther.com/). He's a direct importer, although rumor has it that the prices for those German imports tend to be rather breathtaking.
http://sphotos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/820657_186418411481850_250665369_o.jpg
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/580703_181722875284737_972869007_n.jpg
brickboy240
02-04-13, 14:36
Lots of pistols to be shipped and sold.
...but what the hell is everyone going to run through these things?
Around here, I have not seen a box of 9mm in a store in 2 months.
-brickboy240
From the FAQ on Walther Arms (USA) Facebook page...
1. When will the PPQ Original or PPQ Classic, with paddle mag release, be available?
Not sure. We have asked about the PPQ Classic being offered in the U.S., but no official decision has been made. As soon as we know something definite, we will let you know. Also, consider signing up for the Walther Club so you can receive email updates & news.
DanjojoUSMC
02-04-13, 19:43
Was kind of interested in the PPX until I saw the one year warranty....bad.
Will still check out the PPQ M2 if price is very nice. They are not doing a good job with hiring marketing guys. Take the cheese off the website and put paddle releases in the stores.
Why is the M2 not compatible with P99 magazines? I think I read a review that said it works fine, even though Walther said it does not work.
I have a PPQ M2 on order, but have P99 magazines. If the M2 really cannot use P99 magazines, than I may want to trade my new M2 for someone who has a new lever release one.
Why is the M2 not compatible with P99 magazines? I think I read a review that said it works fine, even though Walther said it does not work.
I have a PPQ M2 on order, but have P99 magazines. If the M2 really cannot use P99 magazines, than I may want to trade my new M2 for someone who has a new lever release one.
Different mag release method. You can probably cut a p99 mag to work with a ppq m2.
But I don't own any sort of ppq so I'm not 100% certain.
Why is the M2 not compatible with P99 magazines? I think I read a review that said it works fine, even though Walther said it does not work.
I have a PPQ M2 on order, but have P99 magazines. If the M2 really cannot use P99 magazines, than I may want to trade my new M2 for someone who has a new lever release one.
Did you place your order with a local gun store or an online source? I'm looking to pre-order an M2 but haven't found a source yet.
From the FAQ on Walther Arms (USA) Facebook page...
Info we got there (in Europe) is that PPQ is done and only PPQ M2 will be made. With price set over HK P30 (almost 1000 EUR!) sales of PPQ in Europe were not overwhelming and they concentrate on US market. And US market screams for push button magazine release.
Was kind of interested in the PPX until I saw the one year warranty....bad.
PPX apparently is a price-point firearm. Gotta cut the corners somewhere to get it to a sub-$500 price.
Info we got there (in Europe) is that PPQ is done and only PPQ M2 will be made. With price set over HK P30 (almost 1000 EUR!) sales of PPQ in Europe were not overwhelming and they concentrate on US market. And US market screams for push button magazine release.
Is there any particular reason that they have the price set so high?
Why is the M2 not compatible with P99 magazines? I think I read a review that said it works fine, even though Walther said it does not work.
I have a PPQ M2 on order, but have P99 magazines. If the M2 really cannot use P99 magazines, than I may want to trade my new M2 for someone who has a new lever release one.
http://i902.photobucket.com/albums/ac225/dannywilliams_52/PPQM2magazine.jpg
This very much appears to be a P99/SW99/MR9/PPQM1 magazine shown next to a new PPQ M2 magazine. From the Walther manual.
No one has been explicitly able to confirm anything just yet that I've seen. I'm curious because surely it had to cross someone's mind that with the changes they were making they would be eliminating magazine compatibility. Now, why they didn't go a Glock Gen3/Gen4 change where Gen3 (PPQ M1) mags work in every gun with the release on the right side are good to go, but new Gen4 (PPQ M2) mags would be required for button release on the left side, I do not know, maybe it wasn't possible to configure it like that. Maybe they just don't give a shit?
All that said, the P99 magazine is directly based off of the Beretta 92 magazine. The cuts in the M2 magazine do look like they are very close (although slightly different in size) to the 92's magazine cuts. If it's possible to use (or modify for use) 92 magazines in the PPQ M2 with perhaps a new floor plate, that's certainly something positive. I've looked, and the angle of the floor plate is different, but the notches look very close.
I'm not holding my breathe, but I am selling my PPQ M1s for M2s regardless of the magazine type. I don't own a P99 anymore and I imagine the M2 mag is here to stay.
There's a thread over on arfcom about the 92 mags.
I'm not going to post a live link to arfcom, but if you were to google for this exact string, it will be your first result "Beretta 92/M9 magazines for your P-99 or XD-9"
So I could have used preban Beretta 92 mags in my P99 for the last 19 years?
So I could have used preban Beretta 92 mags in my P99 for the last 19 years?
I think the problem was over insertion?
Yes, you can push them in too far and harm the extractor, so he made a spacer.
Yes, you can push them in too far and harm the extractor, so he made a spacer.
Maybe you can flex some influence muscle and put out a floor plate/spacer combo from aac for 92 mags ;)
Maybe you can flex some influence muscle and put out a floor plate/spacer combo from aac for 92 mags ;)
That would be awesome.
Great news on the Beretta 92 mags. Will give that a try. Having said that, does anyone else find it incredibly frustrating that Walther is changing the magazine pattern for the PPQ? I LOVE my PPQ and the Euro mag release on it. Will be curious to see if the PPQM2 exceeds the popularity of the original PPQ.
Yes, it is frustrating. I have my collection of P99 mags already.
I do prefer the M2 pistol though - I tried them both at the Shot Show and it is difficult to reach the lever.
I would like to buy a new old stock PPQ but I don't think I am going to pay more than what the M2 is costing me - but yet so far they are all asking for more.
I just pre-ordered a PPQ M2 9mm (2796066) from my local gun shop for $559. They were selling the original PPQ for $509 about 4-5 months ago. I'm not sure if the price increase is from Walther or the shop increasing prices in view of the current climate.
I just pre-ordered a PPQ M2 9mm (2796066) from my local gun shop for $559. They were selling the original PPQ for $509 about 4-5 months ago. I'm not sure if the price increase is from Walther or the shop increasing prices in view of the current climate.
My LGS has a couple of PPQs in the case at $549. I paid $525 from a different LGS about 6 months ago.
I also noted a P99 in the case at $609 FWIW.
My LGS has a couple of PPQs in the case at $549. I paid $525 from a different LGS about 6 months ago.
I also noted a P99 in the case at $609 FWIW.
Where is your lgs? Do they take orders online?
Midway USA is listing PPQ M2 mags as being in stock on April 8th FWIW.
Midway USA is listing PPQ M2 mags as being in stock on April 8th FWIW.
Apparently you're new to midway. The dates listed on that site are complete fantasy. If the day is approaching, it's like to just get stepped back two weeks or a month, over and over until the item actually comes in stock. I would expect to see M2 mags this month, as Walther is shipping guns right now.
For what it's worth... This is a 92FS magazine in the PPQ. As you can see, it's definitely longer, although that base plate is HUGE.
http://i.imgur.com/rW6Pbr5.jpg
With a new baseplate that accounted for the angle and notches, it would seemingly work fine in the P99/PPQ/PPQ M2. I wouldn't carry modified mags, but they seem like they would be fine for range work.
But... By the time you modify, add a new base-plate you're almost certainly near the $41 the PPQ costs. So about the only way it would make sense to tool up a new baseplate is by the insanely remote chance the 92FS mag works without modification in the PPQ M2.
But... By the time you modify, add a new base-plate you're almost certainly near the $41 the PPQ costs.
Note the Magnum Research model# MAGFA915 is the same as the PPQ mag with a slightly different finish and can be had less expensively.
-john
http://www.cmcgov.com/store/pc/Magnum-Research-BDE-Fast-Action-9mm-15-Round-Magazine-377p8374.htm
http://www.magnumresearch.com/MR-Eagle-Series-Magazines/Magnum-Research-MR-Eagle-9mm-Magazine-15-Rounds.asp
Army Chief
02-08-13, 22:46
Never really understood why folks went to such lengths to invest in everything but the PPQ factory mag (which you only pay for once), but the M2 seems to promise more of the same. I think I still prefer the base PPQ form factor -- and mag -- for the time being, but I'm pleased to see Walther USA up and running. They deserve some success here.
AC
For me I am down on the M2 only because back in the mid 1990s I paid $125 each for pre-ban P99 mags. I still have them, and they are still useful in my state.
They work in the PPQ, but not the PPQM2.
So I have been trying to buy a PPQ, but every time I get a lead on one, it has just been sold. And no, I am not paying an extra $250 on an auction site. I may have to trade one of my future M2s for an older one.
Never really understood why folks went to such lengths to invest in everything but the PPQ factory mag (which you only pay for once), but the M2 seems to promise more of the same.
Agree, but note the Magnum Research model# MAGFA915 isn't something "that works", it is *the same* mag. You can't tell them apart other than the different finish and logo on the base plate. IIRC, they are made in the same factory.
-john
I just hope Walther will continue to support the original pistol and magazine in the future. I invested rather substantially in this platform.
Cincinnatus
02-09-13, 00:10
On both the PPQ M2 and the PPQ, the extractor is very long. I assume that's so it can have the spring further back in the slide and therefore be longer and thus have greater spring life/reliability?
Isn't also that way on P99?
For me I am down on the M2 only because back in the mid 1990s I paid $125 each for pre-ban P99 mags. I still have them, and they are still useful in my state.
They work in the PPQ, but not the PPQM2.
So I have been trying to buy a PPQ, but every time I get a lead on one, it has just been sold. And no, I am not paying an extra $250 on an auction site. I may have to trade one of my future M2s for an older one.
You aren't and won't be the only one. If Walther doesn't bring the paddle mag guns in I suspect they will demand a slightly higher price for awhile. And I get what you're saying about using the p99 mags.
For me, I'm looking forward to getting the M2s. The 5" model is exactly what I want for range use. For the way I use the paddle, I think I can keep a much stronger and most consistent grip with the button.
Keep an eye on gunbroker I guess. Waltherforums has people mentioning where PPQs can be found and for how much.
Agree, but note the Magnum Research model# MAGFA915 isn't something "that works", it is *the same* mag. You can't tell them apart other than the different finish and logo on the base plate. IIRC, they are made in the same factory.
-john
To be clear these mags will (almost certainly) NOT work in PPQ M2.
To be clear these mags will (almost certainly) NOT work in PPQ M2.
Right, I'm talking PPQ.
-john
Guys, don't worry about PPQ classic mags being discontinued. Walther still has lots of contracts for the P99, including one they won just last fall. The P99 and PPQ Classic use the same mag, so they will almost certainly still be making and importing the paddle-release magazines.
Also, even though they do not have the PPQ classic on the Walther Arms website, they do list the P99 and P99C and will still be importing them.
I do wish we could get the P99Q here in the USA though.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2012/10/31/dutch-police-adopt-walther-p99q/
Is anyone seeing any PPQ M2s in their LGS? I can't find them online (sans astronomical price) or in the stores.
Is anyone seeing any PPQ M2s in their LGS? I can't find them online (sans astronomical price) or in the stores.
They were just shipping the initial M2s last week. So they should be showing up to your local stores sometime this week.
4" only, the 5" and Navy seem to be behind. I would bet at least another month.
Also, PPQ Classic = PPQ M1
Are saying they are making more PPQ Classics?
Are saying they are making more PPQ Classics?
I had a friend ask at SHOT and was told it is a possibility. I talked to their someone in the Umarex/WaltherArms facility for an unrelated topic, was told pretty much the same. It either seems like there are no plans either way right now, or they aren't but do not want to say that.
My guess is that they will likely bring in at least one run, but I wouldn't count on it until the M2s are fully moving. It seems like an easy task to just add M1s to the next order, but I know nothing about importing. Although this particular model has already been imported, it hasn't by WaltherArms USA, so it might be just as much paperwork and hassle for the M1 as it is the any of the M2 models, that will likely sell better once they get rolling.
I'm sure it's on their to-do list. Just this year they are already brining in PPK/22lr, PPX9, 40, PPX two-tone 9, 40, PPX Threaded 9, PPQ M2 9, 40, all the variations of Navy, 5", and then I know PPS hasn't been imported yet, so those models are probably coming, then they have all those rimfire replicas that are Umarex's dept. Just the new imports/models seem like a lot of work for the new setup. But what do I know!?
Maverick07
02-18-13, 17:26
I had the day off and happened into my LGS. I looked in the gun case and there she was... a Walther PPQ M2 9mm. The prices was about $50 more than the original variant, but is probably more a sign of the times as there was a NIB P99 9mm for the same price. I was able to trade in a USP Compact 45 I bought used years ago and ended up shelling out a minimal amount out of pocket.
With the American mag release this platform is optimized IMHO. I had a PPQ with the original style trigger guard release but found it awkward to operate as I am completely used to the American-style mag releases. I let it go as a result in the hopes of getting my hands on the M2 when it came out.
I heard some concern about the magazine release being a bit light but I found it comparable to other designs. It also to has a very good surface area and excellent tactile feel to it. Even better, with the M2 I have to minimally alter my grip to operate the release, even less than other pistols with well designed mag releases like the Glock Gen 4's. Those of you with longer fingers and or hands my not even have to change their grip to drop a mag. This is a keeper! The P99 Trijicons are already on order. Now if extra magazines become available the I am set.
eternal24k
03-04-13, 06:40
Are the slides dimensionally the same as the PPQ? I am looking for a host for an RMR and I was wondering if these would need a shelf to accommodate the narrow slide
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?p=1261353
I believe the M2 slide dimensions are the same as the Q, I will ask someone over at Walther forums to caliper it and send me measurements and I will post them. That or when my Navy gets in I will do it. Supposedly my order should arrive within the next week or 2 from Earl.
As far as Mags go, the Magnum research mags are dimensionally the same, with the exception of the friction coating I've measured them over and over myself to ensure this. So why not save a few bucks for range usage if you can, now for carry I will only use the Factory Q mags that came with my Q or the ones I ordered from Grant. I will admit at first even before this shitstorm I was weary of the Mec-Gar/ Magnum Research ones, then one day I stumbled into my LGS and they had a lonley MR mag for 20$ so I grabbed it thinking what the heck, went home measured it and then ran it at my range and after about 300 give or take I figured they were GTG specially for range use, and they dropped totally free without any hang ups . Regardless if I had a choice I'd much rather the factory mags.
Are the M series magazines available yet?
If you are talking about the M2 mags I heard that grabagun did have them, I dunno about now.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?p=1261353
I believe the M2 slide dimensions are the same as the Q, I will ask someone over at Walther forums to caliper it and send me measurements and I will post them. That or when my Navy gets in I will do it. Supposedly my order should arrive within the next week or 2 from Earl.
As far as Mags go, the Magnum research mags are dimensionally the same, with the exception of the friction coating I've measured them over and over myself to ensure this. So why not save a few bucks for range usage if you can, now for carry I will only use the Factory Q mags that came with my Q or the ones I ordered from Grant. I will admit at first even before this shitstorm I was weary of the Mec-Gar/ Magnum Research ones, then one day I stumbled into my LGS and they had a lonley MR mag for 20$ so I grabbed it thinking what the heck, went home measured it and then ran it at my range and after about 300 give or take I figured they were GTG specially for range use, and they dropped totally free without any hang ups . Regardless if I had a choice I'd much rather the factory mags.
Of the twelve magazines I have for my PPQ, four of them are the Magnum Research magazines. I use them interchangeably with my Walther mags and have over at least 2500 rounds with absolutely no incident. I am totally confident of their functionality.
I am curious about the Magnum Research Eagle. Currently, the MR9 is built using slides made domestically, but they buy the frames from Walther and the versions they sell have the paddle release. If indeed Walther is phasing out the paddle release, I wonder if future MR9 models will have the button release and use mags that are the same as the mags that come from Walther for the M2.
Maverick07
03-04-13, 17:57
Are the slides dimensionally the same as the PPQ? I am looking for a host for an RMR and I was wondering if these would need a shelf to accommodate the narrow slide
The only difference between the orginal PPQ slide and the PPQ M2 slide is the M2 is no longer stamped with the Smith & Wesson rollmark.
There are some things going on that suggest the possibility that Walther Arms (USA) is reconsidering offering both the PPQ and the PPQ M2 in the US, not the least of which is this poll on their Facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/WaltherArms?ref=ts&fref=ts
Voted. I hope they keep it here.
I don't do Facebook so did not vote (or have the ability to read it). Is there any mention of making mags that will fit both models?
I now have 600+ rounds through my M2 and despite being a "1911 guy", I'm really liking it.
I don't do Facebook so did not vote (or have the ability to read it).
Ditto, but I do hope they keep both available in the US.
-john
Picked up my M2 today. Love it. I will shoot it side by side with my P30 V1 soon. Still waiting for the Navy.
If they make more M1s I would get one just so that I can use my old mags.
I'm not sure what they expected from their Facebook poll, but I note that as of this morning, their "poll" which asks the question "Which Walther would you buy this year if it was locally available? is running 42 votes for the PPQ M2 and 79 votes for the PPQ "classic". Walther Arms' page has a total of 5445 people following it, so I'm not sure the poll rises to statistical significance, but it does at least suggest a market for both versions of the PPQ.
\\/
[QUOTE=Hmac;1580323is running 42 votes for the PPQ M2 and 79 votes for the PPQ "classic". [/QUOTE]
That's pretty funny.
In reality I do think the M2 will have more mass US appeal and I think it will ultimately be a good move for them.
That said, I do think there is a market for the PPQ classic, particularly for those who are cross-shopping HK or are ambi enthusiasts.
In the end, I think it would be smart for them to offer both. The M2 will outsell in the US, but heck, they already have the classic, why not sell it?
-john
That's pretty funny.
In reality I do think the M2 will have more mass US appeal and I think it will ultimately be a good move for them.
That said, I do think there is a market for the PPQ classic, particularly for those who are cross-shopping HK or are ambi enthusiasts.
In the end, I think it would be smart for them to offer both. The M2 will outsell in the US, but heck, they already have the classic, why not sell it?
-john
I think they should import both versions, and redesign the magazines so that they will work in both the M2 and Classic. OTOH, I don't know much about import requirements. Maybe there's some kind of ATF constraint that makes such import not feasible.
carnage0014
03-17-13, 16:22
Any more news on this. I hope that you are still able to buy the old mags. I called several lgs today but none had any, I understand right now times are difficult which is why I would be willing to wait out. If they stop offering the old style mags though that would be bad and I may have to consider switching platforms.
Just FYI on ATF point system.. I dunno where they release would fall in...... and I am sure there is a revised sheet, but I could not find it.
http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-5330-5.pdf
There are no requirements, or points, for mag release type
Last weekend I got dragged to the gun show in Tampa by a friend. While there I saw a PPQ M2 in 9mm and picked it up for $570. I liked what I saw (rounded corners, over all ergonomics and fit, etc..) and find myself in agreement with what others general comments have been. I also noticed the apparently easy ability to adjust or change sights. The grip texture with and the standard back strap just felt right. The ability to attach a lanyard was interesting but that's about it. I'm about as likely to do that as I am to put on the wife's clothes and go out in public.
I managed to find two hours and I took it shooting yesterday finally.
Before I give my thoughts on that event I wan't to provide a little background. I've got back into carrying in 2005. Since then I've owned and shot a variety of pistols ranging from from Glock, Beretta PX4, SA XDm, and eventually settled on the M&P for the past several years. I've generally been satisfied with my M&Ps though have experienced the triggers and accuracy issues with the 9mm. Training opportunities are rare for me. I try to get at least 200 rounds in a month on the range. Sometime I can get more in. It's the best I can do between $, Time, work, kids etc.. LAV or Hackthorn I ain't no where near. So keep in mind my level of proficiency when I say the following:
HOLY MOLEY!!! I am extremely happy with this purchase. The trigger pull was night and day from my M&P. It just blew my mind. It felt like on of my buddies tuned Glock's. I think it contributed a lot towards settling the "Indian V. Arrow" argument running through my head lately. What I mean by that is I have not been satisfied with my pistol marksmanship. Rifle not a problem, but when it came to pistols, yeah problem. I have tried to train as best I can with the resources available but always was frustrated. After shooting the PPQ M2 I found my accuracy at 15m and 25m became a mega ton better. The performance was like the already mentioned tuned Glock. I can't say for sure if it was the pistol but I'm strongly leaning that way. I also thought the mag release was well placed and easy to manipulate. Ditto for the slide release. Easiest time I've had with any pistol using either component.
Having said all that, not everything is perfect. There are a few things that I thought could be better. I don't think anyone can beat the M&P for ease of changing out the back straps. When I gotta use a tool to do it as with the PPQ M2 I do get a little grumpy. For us south paws, reversing the mag release on the M&P is a breeze. I'm going to tackle that later today but it appears to be just slightly more involved. I have medium to smallish hands. When gripping the pistol I found that the side of the bottom edge of my palm was nearly to the point of hanging past the pistol grip. For someone with larger hands they'll probably want to invest in the 17 round magazines that come with the extended base plate. Finally there is the increased muzzle flip. Yes it does exist. No it is not unmanageable or distracting. I have a bad shoulder and yes I felt the impulse travel up my arm to my shoulder a bit more than normal, but it wasn't painful. After 200 rounds. I was not sore in the least nor regretted shooting. I also had my 14 year old 105 pound 5' tall daughter shoot both my M&P and PPQ and observed the climb and recoil on her to make sure I wasn't being "El Capitan Sissy Boy". Yeah it's there and noticeable. However she did not have a "limp wrist" failure either. So put that into the "Pro" category. Keep in mind that even though this section is longer than the others, these are minor nits to pick (for me) and do not change my opinion that this is a danged good pistol.
Finally, yeah Walther needs to get off the dime and start selling magazines. I won't carry with just one spare mag. It would be nice if they didn't cost and arm and a leg to boot.
Please keep in mind that I am not saying that this pistol is the greatest thing ever and everyone should rush out and buy one and forsake all other brands. Don't read in to my negative comments either. They are in the grand scheme of things minor. This is just a sample of one and the personal observations from a (maybe) slightly above average Joe shooter. However I do recommend that if you are considering a new purchase, go to your local range and at least test drive one. If you don't you will be cheating yourself.
Today I went to the range and did a very unscientific comparison between my S&W M&P 9mm Full Size and my Walther PPQ M2 9mm. I was shooting nothing more than Federal white box 115gr FMJ in an indoor range. Point of aim had the top of the sights inline with the top of number 10
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v234/frontline_01/firearms/MP%20VS%20PPQ%20M2/1MP7and10yards_zps30706bb1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v234/frontline_01/firearms/MP%20VS%20PPQ%20M2/2PPQM27and10yards_zps22f25b55.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v234/frontline_01/firearms/MP%20VS%20PPQ%20M2/3MP15yards_zps12a45f49.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v234/frontline_01/firearms/MP%20VS%20PPQ%20M2/4PPQM215yards_zpsca0fd581.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v234/frontline_01/firearms/MP%20VS%20PPQ%20M2/5MP25yards_zps42566e1d.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v234/frontline_01/firearms/MP%20VS%20PPQ%20M2/6PPQM225yards_zps817fd44f.jpg
Okay I am not the best pistol shot in the world. To get a more accurate sample I would have needed to use a rest, such as a Ransom Master Series Rest (http://www.ransomrest.com/RansomRest.html). This is only a sample of two pistols. However based on my past experience with two different M&P 9mms (one made in October of 2012), two range trips with my PPQ M2, and comments from others I believe that these results will be fairly typical. So my non scientific conclusion is that the PPQ M2 is consistently more accurate.
Two side notes: 1) this is the first time that I (south paw) have ever hit to the left of my point of aim. 2) The only thing keeping this from being my EDC is a lack of magazines.
Here's my unscientific comparison between my Glock 19, M&P 9L, and PPQ with stock sights. I did this back in October...hadn't had the gun that long.
I've never shot IDPA or USPA, and that style of shooting is foreign to me. I've never shot accuracy for time. I do practice rapid shooting, but have always been satisfied with "that seemed pretty fast" or at least getting the requisite number of shots off within some arbitrary PAR time. Below is representative of what I (inexpertly) achieved. 7 yards, 6 shots from low ready using range ammo. Timed from Surefire app on iPhone.
PPQ -- 2.85 seconds
http://SSEquine.net/ppq.JPG
M&P 9L -- 2.75 seconds
http://SSEquine.net/smith.JPG
Glock 19 -- 2.39 seconds
http://SSEquine.net/glock.JPG
I just don't perceive muzzle flip is anything that slows me down. Maybe I could see it as more of a problem if I were a better shooter.
I'm a righty and my M2 was a little left of center out of the box as well. ~ 2 clicks on the rear sight adjustment screw, which is reverse threaded, IIRC.
Blue Ridge
03-29-13, 19:50
IMHO, I think they should be doing the opposite, they need to phase out the JMB style magazine release. I've always been a fan of the European paddle style magazine release, and I wish it's what Glock used.
You and me both. I'm surprised it isn't favored by most people, seems like the perfect place for a mag release once you get used to it.
The first time I ever shot one other than renting one was in 3-gun comp and was only the second time I ever used the paddle release. I was surprised b/c I didn't even have to think about it. It was just so natural.
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