Sleep and shelter in natural disaster situation

[Anchor Zero Six]

So a buddy and I have been debating/arguing the merits and need for some specific items to be included in a GHB.

The primary point of debate is that of sleeping gear.

On one hand Mr.T feels that in a crisis situation a person would be too amped to really sleep and by sheltering and sleeping you are presenting a vunerable target to the nefarious element of society.

I however feel completly the opposite in so much as feeling that by not resting and attepting to travel solo at night all you are doing is increasing your chances of mechanical injury and pushing yourself hard into the "Stoopid Zone" where dumb decicions are made.

Now I'm primarily looking at this from the standpoint of a disaster such as a volcano and or earthquake not from the view of they are all out to get me so I need a low signature. Fact is where I live we have active (BIG) volcanos as well as we are pron to quakes just havent had a really big one yet. Also while not cold by the standards of some we easily get into the single digits at night in the winter but the real issue is the Northwest rain...it NEVER stops. So cold+wet = big suck factor.

So my question to you fine folks is two fold, first which side do you agree with in so far as packing sleeping gear or not and second what would you choose?

FWIW I'm curently packing in my GHB a 35degree snugpack bag, a snugpack bivy, a reflective heavy duty space blanket tarp and a poncho. I have camped with this gear and use the space blanket as a ground clothe and the poncho as a shelter but honestly there are two problems with this one is time to set up/take down the other is using the poncho as a shelter leaves me without a rain garment once shelter is set up. Oh forgot to mention I also have a packable down jacket that I use in conjunction with the bag to negate the need for a bigger/warmer bag.

Im giving serious thought to just going with an OR fully enclosed bivy and dropping the need to construct additional shelters and also remove a few of the items from the pack that would no longer be needed.

Thoughts?

[RatDrall]

If you have the items needed to fight hypothermia, I'd think you'd have everything you need to catch a few hours of sleep if you need it.

A sleeping bag takes up a lot of space, the tent and sleep system alone can be half of a large ruck. I have sleep stuff in a duffel bag, but would never bring it along if I were on foot.

My thinking is that I can make a shelter if there are woods nearby. The debris shelter is warm, blends in, and I can leave it behind the next day (or not). I keep one of these in my get home bag to aid the process, and it takes up way less space than a sleeping bag:

http://i588.photobucket.com/albums/ss323/RatDrall/Knives/035.jpg

A GI poncho in my bag to keep me dry doesn't take up much space. I have a softshell jacket and a light and flat but very warm hoodie to wear underneath it. With these items plus the GI Poncho shell I can stay warm, if active, all year long in the northwoods.

Sometimes you have to sleep, but I don't think it requires a sleeping bag, tent, and a bunch of gear.

[Blstr88]

I would think this depends completely on your situation...

Where are you likely to be when a disaster happens? Work? How far do you live from where you'll likely be...?

What you'd bring I would think would relate directly to how long it would take you to get home...if you can get home in 3 days or less I'd say sleeping equipment is much less important. Most people can push through some pain/little sleep for a few days to get back to safety. 10 days to get home? No way you'll do that without good nights of sleep.

Perhaps if we're talking about Get-Home-Bags stored in your vehicle you could have 2 packed...grab just the one for any trip under 3 days...that bag will be light and have only what you need to get you back. The other bag will be heavier/better packed for a longer trip. If you're 3+ days from home grab that one and get moving.

[jmnielsen]

Do you live in wooded areas? I have an ENO hammock and rain fly that pack pretty small. You wouldn't even news the hammock but maybe the rain fly. The fly and stakes pack up to be a tad smaller than a Nalgene bottle.

[Vic303]

http://www.amazon.com/Adventure-Medical-Kits-0140-1138-Heatsheets/dp/B0055S6JNY/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1354033611&sr=8-3&keywords=heatsheets+bivvy

Small and lightweight, water & windproof, heavier duty than the mylar space blankets.

[soulezoo]

With all that stuff, IMHO, you are in BOB size if not larger.

Like previous poster, I guess you'll have to define the "get home" part.

For most, it is something minimalist and lightweight that you'll have to be on foot for. Almost like the idea of using your handgun to fight to get to your rifle, the GHB is just to get you to your bigger bags. I use a GHB for the purpose of traveling twenty miles on foot to get home, prepared for E&E, light food and water, and self-defense small IFAK. I would assume that I am already appropriately clothed for the weather at hand for the day. Besides that, my daily drive takes me from the mountains to the city everyday and the weather varies greatly. I have another "warm, dry" clothes bag with some older gear (windbreaker, rain gear, gloves, sweater, boots) kept in the trunk with that I can breakout if needed, and sometimes I have needed it; like putting chains on the car. For me, for a GHB, if it doesn't all fit in my camelbac MULE, it doesn't need to go. If I am going any distance, the BOB goes with me along with first line belt. And that is a 72hr "covers everything and then some".

If traveling further, then bring the BOB. Again like another poster, I have the tools, materials to improvise a shelter if needed. I'll second the bivy that is linked to above, except I have the thermal bivy designed for colder weather. They make three kinds (sport, thermal and escape) and unless in the desert, they have two more that are made for colder temps. Very lightweight, cheap, can be used a number of times and ultimately disposable. While I have the thermal, I would recommend the escape as it breathes and will allow moisture to escape. They also have thermal blankets that are better than traditional "space" blankets.

Good Luck!

[Moose-Knuckle]

What is the climate like in your area, do you have a wife and kids, etc.? I keep a three season packable Marmot 2P tent on hand for this sort of thing.

[Anchor Zero Six]

I live in the Seattle area but neither work nor reside in the city proper. My daily commute is roughly 60 miles each way so figuring 3 miles per hour walking with a pack for 8 hours per day it would take me 3 days padding time for detours and other unplanned events.

Figuring that if we had a big quake or if Rainer blew maybe not all of the roads would be impassable but then again its hard to predict so plan for the absolute worst scenario. In my mind that would mean shoe leather express the entire distance.

Yes have a wife and I have put together a scaled down 1 day pack for her vehicle but her commute is only 13 miles and she has freinds within short walking distance of her work. I have a few friends along the way between work and home but cant count on them not being stranded away from home either so again I'm planning for the worst.

The layout of my area is rather interesting in so far as having dense patches of population interrupted by some rather dense forrest so even when in one of the outlying urban areas its easy to find cover and stay low. To that I must add I love hammocks for warmer weather (above 55) but feel they kinda suck in the cold unless you are using and underquilt of some sort, problem there is the ones I have seen are rather large.

As far as the SOL bivys are concerned I have one of each and they are decent for temps above 50 comfortably and I have the one listed above in my wifes car to use over a 45 degree bag but given the packed size of their thermal bivy my snugpack sleeping bag (rated to 35) takes up roughly the same volume for only a few more ounces. I think I mentioned I also have a down jacket in a compression bag to use in conjunction with the bag and also under my poncho.

I suppose I should frame where Im approaching this from in regards to why I feel rest is important. Im curently on my 19th year of active duty and have by luck of the draw been involved in most of the disaster recover missions that have occured durring that time around the world. Took alot away from those adventures and can appreciate the stress it causes those impacted. For me it was hard work and long days for months on end but each time my "shift" was over I got to go back eat a hot meal and take a shower, also I knew my family and friends were safe and sound somplace far away. I have seen first hand the stress, fear and anger caused by these events and hate to say it but often it can bring out some bad things in good people. Anyways having done my fair share of 24,48,72 and every now and then longer work days without sleep I know first hand that poor decisions are easy to make once the "Sleep giggles" hit you and your brain goes to mush. Again traveling solo without another person to inject reason I can see poor decisions being made. I also have to contend with rather short amounts of daylight being this far North and again I feel trveling solo at night also not the best plan.

Sincerly appreciate the feedback! Thus far its been a debate between two people so its nice to see how others approach the same question.

By way of camping with only the bag I keep in the truck (2100 ci Source Patrol 30 bag) with the items already packed I'm slowly adding and removing items. I would like to be around 25lbs including water and 3 days of food, not quite there yet but working on it.

[Vic303]

You should consider a mountain bike for getting back home if your commute is 60 mi. You can cut your travel time down to mere hours instead of days. Better yet if you can store one at your place of employment.

[Anchor Zero Six]

Ya know that thought never crossed my mind, great suggestion!

[urbantroy]

I can't recall the brand (maybe Specialized...), however there were some relatively rugged mountain bikes that folded down. At least $1200+ though.

[Vic303]

Personally I would make do with a beater (old higher quality ) unsuspended mtb. Less likely to draw attention from would-be thieves and harassers, and less $$ invested in it if it did get stolen. Make sure it is mechanically in good repair, and keep some basic tools on it including spare tubes and a pump. Those may need to be stored in your office but make sure you have them.

[Anchor Zero Six]

Have a Scott Scale 50 and do a bit or MTB in the summer. May as well stash at work vs hanging in the garage.

[Vic303]

Looks like a decent bike Anchor 6.

[Vic303]

You might consider adding a rear rack to it, if you have the mounting points on your frame. That would allow you to carry extra supplies/gear if you needed, and not add significant weight to the bike if not carrying gear. Plus it can act as a rear fender to some extent, and in the PNW, you might want that!

[Boker55]

You can't go wrong with a GI poncho. And as long as you have decent clothing that matches the season/weather you should be good to go.