View Full Version : Unstaked Gas Key from Colt??
Just received a brand new SOCOM II M4A1 and found the gas key to be unstaked. Anyone have this quality control issue before? Not happy.
I got this same "treatment" from a Colt upper kit back in the 1990's. The rifle has functioned flawlessly ever since. Go figure!
I was just about to ask if you thought it was a shady "dealer swap" but I noticed the C stamp on the carrier. Seems legit, I guess someone on the line missed this one.
I'll be happy as long as they make it right. I'm asking for an advance exchange on their dime. We'll see.
They'll fix it.
Shit.. I'd just fix it myself. :rolleyes:
^^^ This, you should be able to do this... As for Colt, thats why its called quality control, and nobody bats a thousand.:)
Just received a brand new SOCOM II M4A1 and found the gas key to be unstaked. Anyone have this quality control issue before? Not happy.
It is an isn't a QC issue (as everything is properly made). The problem is that Colt does not stake the gas keys on the piston BCG's and for whatever reason the tech thinks he is building a BCG for this gun VS a DI gun.
Call up Colt and have them fix it.
C4
Wait wait...thought that was a top tier gun :nono:
The difference is that with Colt, this is an exception to the rule rather than the rule.
The whole staking thing has taken on a retarded life of its own. It needs to be done... and done correctly to be effective...
But it's gotten absurd... and become a talking point for every clown in North America to address so he can assert his extensive expertise in the AR realm.
It is an isn't a QC issue (as everything is properly made). The problem is that Colt does not stake the gas keys on the piston BCG's and for whatever reason the tech thinks he is building a BCG for this gun VS a DI gun.
Call up Colt and have them fix it.
C4
Even if that is the case, the finished rifle should have been inspected. It's a QC issue either way, and one more reason to stake the piston gun's BCG. If a "tech" can grab a BCG from the wrong bin it's a production issue. If the wrong, correctly made, BCG can leave the factory in the wrong rifle it's QC. Staking them all keeps this from happening ever. No big deal it happens and Colt will take care of it.
I wonder if Colt is having problems with the UAW.
Even if that is the case, the finished rifle should have been inspected. It's a QC issue either way, and one more reason to stake the piston gun's BCG. If a "tech" can grab a BCG from the wrong bin it's a production issue. If the wrong, correctly made, BCG can leave the factory in the wrong rifle it's QC. Staking them all keeps this from happening ever. No big deal it happens and Colt will take care of it.
I agree that someone should have caught it, but I don't know that there is a "Visual" inspection done (more of Function test).
C4
m1a_scoutguy
11-27-12, 10:53
I'll be happy as long as they make it right. I'm asking for an advance exchange on their dime. We'll see.
Hmmm,,,good luck with that,,,;)I hope they go above & beyond for ya !! Now with that said,,clean it up good,,put a drop of red locktie on each screw and head to the range when it sets up,,,the world will not come to a end if the gas key isn't staked !! I know its the point of the matter,,it should of been checked & it should of been done correctly,,but it slipped through,,which sucks !! I know if it were me,,I wouldn't lose a day at the range because of that,,,but with it early in the week,,ya mite be able to get it cleared up before the weekend. Keep us posted on how ya make out !!
Wait wait...thought that was a top tier gun :nono:
If this is a red flag to you than don't buy one. There are no shortage of companies willing to sell you their copy of the AR15.
It's a QC issue either way, and one more reason to stake the piston gun's BCG.
You don't need to stake Colt's piston key. It's only a cover for a pin holding the key together. IIRC the material is too tough to stake as well......? Either way, there has been a few threads floating around about this lately, Colt will take care of it.
You can't stake Colt's piston key. It's only a cover for a pin holding the key together.
So....are the carrier and key completely different? Or are they the same parts attached to each other differently, with a few screws thrown in to make them look the same? :confused:
m1a_scoutguy
11-27-12, 11:18
The whole staking thing has taken on a retarded life of its own. It needs to be done... and done correctly to be effective...
But it's gotten absurd... and become a talking point for every clown in North America to address so he can assert his extensive expertise in the AR realm.
Ha,,Ha,,,A-****ingmen,,like I said,,the world will not fall off its axis with a unstaked friggin gas key !! For what its worth,,20 years ago when I bought my 1st AR,,I use to take the dam Gas Key off to clean it,,,:eek: I didn't know any better,,then one day I was cleaning my rifle with a buddy that forgot more about ARs than any 10 guys will ever know and he asked me WTF are ya doing,,LOL !! I said cleaning my bolt and carrier,,he said you idiot,,you don't take that off,,:nono:,,anyways,,,,cleaned it,,put red locktite on it and carried on,,for years and thousands of Rd's,,,never had a issue,,,matter of fact,,it ran "FLAWLESS",,,LOL,,just had to put that in there,,;) !! Anyways,,like I said,,I hope he gets it taken care of !!
Well, Colt offered to send an envelope to recover the unstaked key, fix it and return it. They cautioned that it could take weeks or even months before it's back. That's not going to work. I asked for an advance exchange. We will see.
So....are the carrier and key completely different? Or are they the same parts attached to each other differently, with a few screws thrown in to make them look the same? :confused:
Here ya go bud......this thread is classic ;) The explanation is in there somewhere
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=101299
Well, Colt offered to send an envelope to recover the unstaked key, fix it and return it. They cautioned that it could take weeks or even months before it's back. That's not going to work. I asked for an advance exchange. We will see.
That's shit CS.
The whole staking thing has taken on a retarded life of its own. It needs to be done... and done correctly to be effective...
But it's gotten absurd... and become a talking point for every clown in North America to address so he can assert his extensive expertise in the AR realm.
ART AND ZEN OF THE TACTARD CARBINE by MarkM. I'm telling you man, compile this stuff into one comprehesive thread. It should be a sticky :)
sinlessorrow
11-27-12, 11:36
So....are the carrier and key completely different? Or are they the same parts attached to each other differently, with a few screws thrown in to make them look the same? :confused:
The 6940P carrier key is attached to the bolt carrier via pressure fit pins.
This allows for use of common parts and offers a near indestructable means of attaching the key to the carrier. Even the thinnest press fit pins can withstand 100+lbs of pressure so needless to say they wont shear unless you take a sledge hammer to them.
ART AND ZEN OF THE TACTARD CARBINE by MarkM. I'm telling you man, compile this stuff into one comprehesive thread. It should be a sticky :)
I'd like to get Patraeus's Biographer to "work" with me on this compiliation.... :)..
30 cal slut
11-27-12, 12:33
I wonder if Colt is having problems with the UAW.
Colt Defense LLC and its predecessors have always had strained relationships with the rank and file.
Colt is trying like crazy to make up for lost Army contract sales by selling to international military customers and ... (finally) the US commercial market.
Half of CLTDEF's shipments for the last few quarters were to Colt's Manufacturing (its sister company that exclusively markets the LE 6920's to civilian distributors).
The difference between what we get and what the Malaysian military is getting right now ... is that the latter has an inspector on site to QC the milspec.
Well, Colt offered to send an envelope to recover the unstaked key, fix it and return it. They cautioned that it could take weeks or even months before it's back. That's not going to work. I asked for an advance exchange. We will see.
This is their standard answer for EVERYTHING. They simply don't want someone calling them every hour to check on the gun.
Just send it back to them.
C4
Gee anyone think it might be a cost saving measure by Colt to compete in the Civie market? Think about it they save a few bucks -sell thousands on AR's and only have a couple folks complain. Just think of all those out there where the user is clueless about there rifles. :rolleyes: Not hard to believe as this unstaked BCG thing just poped up after there big surge into the Civie market. :rolleyes:
No.
C4
Gee anyone think it might be a cost saving measure by Colt to compete in the Civie market? Think about it they save a few bucks -sell thousands on AR's and only have a couple folks complain. Just think of all those out there where the user is clueless about there rifles. :rolleyes: Not hard to believe as this unstaked BCG thing just poped up after there big surge into the Civie market. :rolleyes:
Next stop.....blame the Walmart sales. :suicide2:
Well, Colt offered to send an envelope to recover the unstaked key, fix it and return it. They cautioned that it could take weeks or even months before it's back. That's not going to work. I asked for an advance exchange. We will see.
Months? That's ridiculous.
Doc. Holiday
11-27-12, 13:19
@Thegut
Dude, it's election year. Every AR company is backed by months...
@OP
As what Grant said. Send it back. It's the same concept when companies refund your money on your debit/credit card saying that it could take up to 30 days to get your refund when 95% of the time you get your money back within 3 days. It just covers their butts. I bet you'll have it back sooner than "months".
wetidlerjr
11-27-12, 13:21
Months? That's ridiculous.
See below:
Well, Colt offered to send an envelope to recover the unstaked key, fix it and return it. They cautioned that it could take weeks or even months before it's back. That's not going to work. I asked for an advance exchange. We will see.
This is their standard answer for EVERYTHING. They simply don't want someone calling them every hour to check on the gun. Just send it back to them.
C4
wetidlerjr
11-27-12, 13:32
Never mind...
Confusion on model being discussed.
While you are busy bashing their CS over a non issue make sure you mention everyone else that is jacked up. In case you forgot we just had an election and the industry is strained.
That's shit CS.
Just received a brand new SOCOM II M4A1 and found the gas key to be unstaked. Anyone have a MOACKS they'd be willing to loan me?
Fixed it for ya
...The difference between what we get and what the Malaysian military is getting right now ... is that the latter has an inspector on site to QC the milspec.
Inspectors do not control quality. The folks who make the parts and build the rifle do. Inspectors can only assure it was done correctly
too old for this
11-27-12, 14:18
I bought a 6920 a few months ago that had the same issue. I contacted Colt. They had me send in the rifle (they paid shipping) for inspection and I received it back in about 6 weeks with a properly staked gas key.
Overall it was a major inconvenience but it didn't cost me anything other than the wait. I was surprised to see this on a Colt though, and apparently it is not as rare as one would think. I am not bashing Colt: the best there is as far as I am concerned, especially for the price I paid of $1090.00.
curlyburns5
11-27-12, 14:21
Add this to a long list of recent redonkulous threads.
Can someone explain to me the advantages of this new piston system I keep hearing about and what the difference is between free float and non free float rails?
While you are busy bashing their CS over a non issue make sure you mention everyone else that is jacked up. In case you forgot we just had an election and the industry is strained.
I don't think it's a non-issue. The election excuse doesn't fly either. They will send out hundreds of complete rifles in the time it takes the op to send his BCG back to them. They should send him a postage paid envelope and when they get the BCG back they should send out another Immediately. They can and they should. Anything short of this is SHIT CS from a company with Colts' reputation. I think it's shit CS to tell a customer they are gonna have to wait weeks possibly months for them to fix something so minor. I think they say shit like that so you won't send it back.
sinlessorrow
11-27-12, 14:46
I don't think it's a non-issue. The election excuse doesn't fly either. They will send out hundreds of complete rifles in the time it takes the op to send his BCG back to them. They should send him a postage paid envelope and when they get the BCG back they should send out another Immediately. They can and they should. Anything short of this is SHIT CS from a company with Colts' reputation. I think it's shit CS to tell a customer they are gonna have to wait weeks possibly months for them to fix something so minor. I think they say shit like that so you won't send it back.
They say shit like that so idiots dont get their panties in a bunch when they dont have a new BCG back in 2 days.
Saying it will take a month means, dont call us every day askin when your BCG will be back, it will probably be much earlier than a month but dont call till then.
^^^ This, you should be able to do this... As for Colt, thats why its called quality control, and nobody bats a thousand.:)
I do think its been happening a lot more with Colt lately. They took about 6 weeks to get mine back to me. These threads seem a lot more common lately and I'm betting most people don't post about it when it's discovered. I'm sure they will address it but it takes time to ID the failure point, then take corrective measures. I'm confident Colt is tired of paying to ship BCG's back and forth.
TacMedic556
11-27-12, 15:05
This exact situation happened to my dad not 2 months ago. He purchased a BRAND NEW in the box M4 6920. Colt paid to have it shipped to them, and it appears they just swapped out with a new BCG that was properly staked. This happens, unfortunately. I believe that with the increased demand and production, they are cranking out guns and the quality inspections are suffering. They will take care of it and be sure you follow up with it. It took several weeks, but in the end it was taken care of.
If you search the threads, I posted a thread on this and pictures of the same scenario. Good luck.
Unless I missed something I am pretty sure that its been stated the model being discussed doesn't have the same carrier and doesn't require the standings. Reading and comprehension are fundamental.
I don't think it's a non-issue. The election excuse doesn't fly either. They will send out hundreds of complete rifles in the time it takes the op to send his BCG back to them. They should send him a postage paid envelope and when they get the BCG back they should send out another Immediately. They can and they should. Anything short of this is SHIT CS from a company with Colts' reputation. I think it's shit CS to tell a customer they are gonna have to wait weeks possibly months for them to fix something so minor. I think they say shit like that so you won't send it back.
Unless I missed something I am pretty sure that its been stated the model being discussed doesn't have the same carrier and doesn't require the standings. Reading and comprehension are fundamental.
Yea you missed something. ;)
Sorry I confused this with the other post. And if someone can't manage to stake the carrier then I don't know what else to say. If it were me I would contact Colt, make them aware and resolve it myself.
Yea you missed something. ;)
Sorry I confused this with the other post. And if someone can't manage to stake the carrier then I don't know what else to say. If it were me I would contact Colt, make them aware and resolve it myself.
Me too,
Most people won't go buy a $1000.00 rifle and start beating on the $200.00 BCG. It's reasonable to expect it to be put together right. If not you wouldn't expect to wait that long to have a replacement part sent out. I just think it could be handled a little better.
People do it all the time with Bushmasters and others that don't stake BCGs or castle nuts at all on a continuous basis. Have seen their prices?
Me too,
Most people won't go buy a $1000.00 rifle and start beating on the $200.00 BCG. It's reasonable to expect it to be put together right. If not you wouldn't expect to wait that long to have a replacement part sent out. I just think it could be handled a little better.
Just received a brand new SOCOM II M4A1 and found the gas key to be unstaked. Anyone have this quality control issue before? Not happy.
I bought a 6920 a few months ago that had the same issue. I contacted Colt. They had me send in the rifle (they paid shipping) for inspection and I received it back in about 6 weeks with a properly staked gas key.
Overall it was a major inconvenience but it didn't cost me anything other than the wait. I was surprised to see this on a Colt though, and apparently it is not as rare as one would think.
I do think its been happening a lot more with Colt lately. They took about 6 weeks to get mine back to me. These threads seem a lot more common lately and I'm betting most people don't post about it when it's discovered.
This exact situation happened to my dad not 2 months ago. He purchased a BRAND NEW in the box M4 6920. Colt paid to have it shipped to them, and it appears they just swapped out with a new BCG that was properly staked. This happens, unfortunately.
What? The mighty Colt?!
I'm surprised to hear this. I was under the impression that their quality and reliability was second to none (or at least a very select few).
sinlessorrow
11-27-12, 16:17
What? The mighty Colt?!
I'm surprised to hear this. I was under the impression that their quality and reliability was second to none (or at least a very select few).
Save that kind of comment for TOS.
No company is perfect. Colt produces more rifles per year than any other company out there, add he fact that they are getting their guns to more and more people and issues will pop up, but I bet their percentage is lower than alot of others as well.
I have also personally seen that people are far more willing to join a website to point out an issue with colt than they are a Bushmaster or whatever other company there is.
Please save the troll comments. EVERYONE has acknowledged that NO MANUFACTURER is above making mistakes. That includes Colt.
Yes, they may make mistakes, but it is not part of an ongoing trend. What's funny is that people will attack Colt for a little faux paus but they will defend Bushmaster, Les Baer, Stag Arms, etc... for their continued ARbortions.
What? The mighty Colt?!
I'm surprised to hear this. I was under the impression that their quality and reliability was second to none (or at least a very select few).
It is disappointing to say the least when you buy what you believe to be a top quality product from what you believe is a top quality company, only to find something wrong with it. That said, no company is perfect and things get overlooked because in the end people are in control...and people make mistakes.
A note about Colt's CS dept. : I purchased a LW commander and had a problem with the frame finish flaking off. I contacted Colt via PM (on another forum) to Brent. About 8 weeks later I had a refinished LW commander, a new upswept beavertail grip safety, a new thumb safety (both at my request, which I intended to pay for) and two new mags....all for free. Point being, CS is a big deal to Colt and while it may take them a little while they are determined to have satisfied customers.
Mod edit: Deleted...for whining about deletions.
Take the hint. If it was deleted, it violated something OTHER than your roll-mark favoritism.
Colt has agreed to send an advance exchange and pay the freight to recover the bad one. Problem resolved in one day. Very pleased with their response.
Colt has agreed to send an advance exchange and pay the freight to recover the bad one. Problem resolved in one day. Very pleased with their response.
Outstanding!
HardLuck682
11-27-12, 19:01
Colt has agreed to send an advance exchange and pay the freight to recover the bad one. Problem resolved in one day. Very pleased with their response.
Good to hear. I honestly believe any company would stand behind their new product. Sometime it takes some persuasion, but usually it turns out well.
...sent from my mind, using telepathy!
The BCG in my 6940 had an unstaked gas key. My local gunsmith did it in several minutes and that was that.
While it'd have been nice to have had it arrive properly done, it didn't require sending anything back to get straightened out.
Week/s to send/return vs. three minutes at local gunsmith? -I'll go local.
Colt has agreed to send an advance exchange and pay the freight to recover the bad one. Problem resolved in one day. Very pleased with their response.
This is really good to hear. That's the way a reputable company should handle issues regarding the integrity of their product.
Colt has agreed to send an advance exchange and pay the freight to recover the bad one. Problem resolved in one day. Very pleased with their response.
Great news, glad I went with Colt.
Mr.Anderson
11-27-12, 19:53
The whole staking thing has taken on a retarded life of its own. It needs to be done... and done correctly to be effective...
But it's gotten absurd... and become a talking point for every clown in North America to address so he can assert his extensive expertise in the AR realm.
hey, HEY
Now... Hold on a gosh darn second here.
So, I come to M4C and get squared away about TRUE "milspec" and staking BCG's and WHY my Stag was inferior...
And, NOW, I'm "that guy" because I attempt to explain to people WHY there are different grades and even admit I made a mistake buying the Stag!
:sarcastic: :jester:
I'm glad I stumbled upon this "thread"...
It saved me from making a fool of myself and calling Grant every hour to see if he shipped my BCM 20A4 yet!!! hehe
:D
Gahunter12
11-27-12, 20:18
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcpd34
Just received a brand new SOCOM II M4A1 and found the gas key to be unstaked. Anyone have this quality control issue before? Not happy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by too old for this
I bought a 6920 a few months ago that had the same issue. I contacted Colt. They had me send in the rifle (they paid shipping) for inspection and I received it back in about 6 weeks with a properly staked gas key.
Overall it was a major inconvenience but it didn't cost me anything other than the wait. I was surprised to see this on a Colt though, and apparently it is not as rare as one would think.
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Cid
I do think its been happening a lot more with Colt lately. They took about 6 weeks to get mine back to me. These threads seem a lot more common lately and I'm betting most people don't post about it when it's discovered.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TacMedic556
This exact situation happened to my dad not 2 months ago. He purchased a BRAND NEW in the box M4 6920. Colt paid to have it shipped to them, and it appears they just swapped out with a new BCG that was properly staked. This happens, unfortunately.
I haven't posted much since I spend most of my time reading, searching, and learning. Wouldn't it be a good idea to inspect a new purchase before buying, or leaving the local FFL. I asked my LGS to break down my LE6920 before I said I would take it. I figured it would be best for them to do a simple FS to verify the bolt was staked, and every thing was on par. Just asking. I have always done this on any firearm purchase I make.
I haven't posted much since I spend most of my time reading, searching, and learning. Wouldn't it be a good idea to inspect a new purchase before buying, or leaving the local FFL. I asked my LGS to break down my LE6920 before I said I would take it. I figured it would be best for them to do a simple FS to verify the bolt was staked, and every thing was on par. Just asking. I have always done this on any firearm purchase I make.
I can't speak for the others but mine was an online purchase. I discovered it immediately at the FFL but my only option was to refuse it and send it back. I knew Colt would take care of it so I took delivery.
TacMedic556
11-27-12, 20:38
What? The mighty Colt?!
I'm surprised to hear this. I was under the impression that their quality and reliability was second to none (or at least a very select few).
To be clear, the gun mentioned by TOO OLD FOR THIS and TACMEDIC556 are the SAME GUN, and not two separate incidents.
Colt still makes the flagship by which all others are measured and compared. Everything else is just a reverse engineered copy cat of the original. Colt is the best in my book and has never failed me. I am the type that if you give two steel ball bearings, I will break one and lose the other one. Never broke or lost a Colt.
Gahunter12
11-27-12, 20:53
I can't speak for the others but mine was an online purchase. I discovered it immediately at the FFL but my only option was to refuse it and send it back. I knew Colt would take care of it so I took delivery.
True. It does make you feel better knowing its a Colt, and they will take care of you! I have yet to this date buy from the net for this reason. With Clyde's Armory, and many, many other LGS that have very competitive pricing most of the time I can buy for the same price, or slightly more. I guess I have always been anal about firearm purchases. :cool:
My Colts were and have been GTG since they came out of the box. But guess what? One of my Daniel Defense rifles had a loose FSB out of the box and it wasn't because the pins weren't pushed in all the way. Without firing a shot it was off to DD for almost 8 weeks where they replaced a brand new barrel and FSB with another new barrel and FSB this time properly fitted, drilled and pinned. I sure wasn't expecting this from DD. Moral of the story? Stuff happens.
Oh, one more thing. This was an online purchase from a reputable dealer...
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