View Full Version : Itching for another one...bolt precision rifle
Hey guys, here's my story. Check it out and see what you recommend.
I bought the following rifle from a mutual friend on the recommendation of (at that time) a Marine Sniper buddy:
Custom Remington 700 Varmint, .308 Win
24" Barrel - crowned and cryoed
Action blueprinted
Lugs Lapped
2lb trigger
HS precision stock with detachable mag, camo'ed
Leupold VariX III 4.5-14x40 with turrets added by Custom Shop
Supposedly, this rifle belonged to Chuck Taylor. I got it in the original walnut stock, it had been pillar bedded. I pulled it out of that stock and put it in the HS Precision.
This gun would shoot lights out, but I sold it in college to pay tuition. I only put about 150 rounds through it while I owned it. I tried tracking it down again, but hit a dead end. I did get the guy I sold it to (in 2003) to send me some pics. He moved to Colorado and got to stretch it's legs:
http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab104/ASH556/P1010306.jpg
http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab104/ASH556/P1030164-1.jpg
http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab104/ASH556/P1030170-1.jpg
I always regretted selling this rifle, so about 4 years ago, I saved up some money and put this one together:
Rem 700 SPS Tac
Steel Bedded in HS LTR Stock
Nightforce 20 MOA Base
Nightforce Rings
Leupold LRT M3 3.5-10x40 Mil-Dot/308M cam
Badger Knob
Harris Bipod
Turner Sling
Added since pic - B.A.L.S. Stock Pack w/Sandbag - cool piece of kit, mobile sandbag!
Black Hills 175GR
http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab104/ASH556/IMG_7278.jpg
100yds - 2 rnds @ top of Dot to confirm zero, 5 rnds @ bottom for zero (after adjustment, gotta love full MOA Elevation:rolleyes:)
http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab104/ASH556/100yd.jpg
600yds/2" Dot: First 3 shots at 600 just by dialing the cam and pulling the trigger.
http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab104/ASH556/600yd.jpg
I only put abut 50 rounds through it before I sold it. That's 50 rounds in 4 years of ownership. It really only went to the range one time and then I hunted with it a couple times.
I ended up trading it for my Daniel Defense MK18 SBR. I love the SBR and shoot it a lot more than I did the bolt gun.
Part of the problem is that the closest range to me that's 100yds + is 2 hrs away. Another part of the problem is the cost of match .308 ammo.
I tried playing with the precision AR thing, but I didn't really shoot it much either, even though ammo is cheaper.
So, I've resigned myself to the fact that if I have a precision rifle, it is going to sit in the safe most of the time. Even so, it bothers me not to have one. I do have a 1976 Ruger M77 in 30/06. It shoots pretty well at 100yds with factory ammo, but with the lightweight barrel, it's not really much of a precision gun. It heats up pretty quickly and starts stringing shots, but it's a nice hunting rifle and was a gift from my parents so selling it is out of the question:
http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab104/ASH556/20121123_090947.jpg
So on to the question:
I have an AR that I have very little money in because part of it was given to me as "thanks" for some help from a buddy. I was thinking of trading it into a precision rifle setup. Value is about $750. I realize that doesn't get me all the way there and I could probably put another $300 or so into it come tax time.
What would you spend $1,000 on to have some long range precision capability?
Best I can come up with is another
SPS TAC ($597)
B&C Stock ($250)
EGW Base ($45)
Then borrow the Zeiss Conquest 3-9x40 in Warne QD rings from my 10/22 until I pick up some other glass.
Concerns:
I didn't like carrying my other SPS Tac in the woods because it was super heavy.
Any validity to the thought of a mid-weight barrel and/or going shorter than 20"?
Other/better options?
Thanks guys!
So you're looking for a bolt gun that is light enough to carry for hunting, yet heavy barreled enough to prevent zero shift after longer strings of fire? Are you planning on suppressing this?
I only put abut 50 rounds through it before I sold it. That's 50 rounds in 4 years of ownership.
Goooooodnesssss!! I have 1800 rounds in my Rem 700 in 1 year!
So you're looking for a bolt gun that is light enough to carry for hunting, yet heavy barreled enough to prevent zero shift after longer strings of fire? Are you planning on suppressing this?
Yeah, that's pretty much it. Accuracy can be defined at MOA with match ammo. No suppression planned. No bipod either. I'll either shoot it off a ruck sack or off-hand.
Here's that SPS as I hunted with it last year and my small-ish 9pt buck:
http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab104/ASH556/10222011274.jpg
Goooooodnesssss!! I have 1800 rounds in my Rem 700 in 1 year!
Yeah, you live in the desert and shoot every week too. How much would you shoot it if you had to drive 2 hrs one way and deal with a hilbilly looking over your shoulder and telling you how to shoot the whole time?
http://gunsitehills.com/
Yeah, you live in the desert and shoot every week too. How much would you shoot it if you had to drive 2 hrs one way and deal with a hilbilly looking over your shoulder and telling you how to shoot the whole time?
I'd probably lose my mind and get into LIGHT WEIGHT Pencil Barrel ARs or something insane! :p
Yeah, that's pretty much it. Accuracy can be defined at MOA with match ammo. No suppression planned. No bipod either. I'll either shoot it off a ruck sack or off-hand.
Sounds a lot like what I'm looking for as well except I want to eventually suppress it. In my search so far, the problem I've seen is that you either get a skinny, light barrel with a twist that is "supposed" to be too slow for the heavy bullets that are optimal for long range, or you get a thick, heavy barrel that has a "more optimal" twist rate...but then you have to deal with the weight.
As far as I know, there's not much of a middle ground unless you get some kind of custom rifle done...of course I may have missed something, so I'm all ears if there's something out there.
ICANHITHIMMAN
11-28-12, 18:25
Are you stuck on 308? What the details on the AR? I have a few things I have been considering parting with lately but there not cheep.
Are you stuck on 308? What the details on the AR? I have a few things I have been considering parting with lately but there not cheep.
Kind of stuck on. 308 for ammo availability since I don't reload. AR is nothing special...PSA basic M4...not even complete yet. Needs BCG, lower receiver, stock. Will bring $750 easy on the local market, though, when complete.
karmapolice
11-28-12, 20:38
:nono::no:
If you've gotta drive for 2 hours to get to the closest 100yd range, why don't you invest in a precision .22? You can get all sorts of practice at close range and it can be challenging. Why buy another gun that you're only gonna shoot 1 time in 4 years?
snowdog650
11-29-12, 11:25
Some options for you:
1. Savage Model 10 Precision Carbine: 20" threaded HBAR, 8.0 pounds
http://savagearms.com/firearms/model/10PRECISIONCARBINE
https://s3.amazonaws.com/savagefiles/firearms/models/610/MrClx5GMV_vPV24x9qh.png
2. Savage Model 10 FP-SR: 20" threaded HBAR, 8.2 pounds
http://savagearms.com/firearms/model/10FPSR
https://s3.amazonaws.com/savagefiles/firearms/models/900/d27359X8m_XeGQy95Yc.png
3. Tikka T3 Varmint: 23" HBAR, 8.0 Pounds
http://www.tikka.fi/pdf/specs/Varmint.pdf
http://www.tikka.fi/images/t3/varmint.jpg
4. Tikka T3 TAC: 20" Threaded HBAR, 8.0 pounds
http://www.tikka.fi/pdf/specs/T3_TAC.pdf
http://www.tikka.fi/images/t3/tac.jpg
Any of these will easily exceed 1 MOA out of the box.
If it were me, I'd go for the Tikka T3 TAC. There are plenty of options out there.
Some nice suggestions, snowdog...but I would bet that the OP would prefer the Remington 700 platform...I could be wrong though....
Secondly, the Remington 700 AAC-SD is listed at 7.3lbs...whereas all of the options listed are 8+ lbs...
...but I would bet that the OP would prefer the Remington 700 platform...
We shoot our bolt guns TOO MUCH to go with a Tikka or Savage. If you're like ASH556 and shoot 50 rounds in 4 years, one of those guns is just fine.
But we shoot 50 in one day, and run the guns 30-40 days per year.
snowdog650
11-29-12, 12:19
We shoot our bolt guns TOO MUCH to go with a Tikka or Savage. If you're like ASH556 and shoot 50 rounds in 4 years, one of those guns is just fine.
But we shoot 50 in one day, and run the guns 30-40 days per year.
Right ... if I were making a recommendation for you, I would say a 700 action or a custom job from Shilen, GAP, or Surgeon.
However, the OP self-disclosed his low anticipated round count ... therefore, the Savages and Tikkas are more than appropriate for his needs (i.e., an accurate hunting rifle, essentially).
Some nice suggestions, snowdog...but I would bet that the OP would prefer the Remington 700 platform...I could be wrong though....
Secondly, the Remington 700 AAC-SD is listed at 7.3lbs...whereas all of the options listed are 8+ lbs...
I saw that but also saw where it's a typo:
http://www.gunsumerreports.com/review_remington_700_sps_tactical_aac-sd_p3.php
I do want to stick with a 700 just for commonality and familiarity.
The more I read and look around, the more I like the 20" SPS in the B&C M40 stock. It's supposed to be a bit lighter than the HS Precision stock. I'm thinking of going M40A1-ish. I'll use a dual dovetail 20moa base that a guy on the hide makes for reproduction rifles. The dovetail base and rings should save me some weight. Leaving off the Badger knob I had before will save some weight. Leaving off the Bipod will save some weight. I'm also thinking of going with a Bushnell 10 x 40 Mil/Mil scope. It's only 15.5 oz vs the 19.5 oz of the Leupold I had before.
I'm starting to get excited about this budget precision rifle!
I saw that but also saw where it's a typo:
http://www.gunsumerreports.com/review_remington_700_sps_tactical_aac-sd_p3.php
I do want to stick with a 700 just for commonality and familiarity.
The more I read and look around, the more I like the 20" SPS in the B&C M40 stock. It's supposed to be a bit lighter than the HS Precision stock. I'm thinking of going M40A1-ish. I'll use a dual dovetail 20moa base that a guy on the hide makes for reproduction rifles. The dovetail base and rings should save me some weight. Leaving off the Badger knob I had before will save some weight. Leaving off the Bipod will save some weight. I'm also thinking of going with a Bushnell 10 x 40 Mil/Mil scope. It's only 15.5 oz vs the 19.5 oz of the Leupold I had before.
I'm starting to get excited about this budget precision rifle!
Hmm interesting on the weight...I wonder what the breakdown is for the weight of the barreled action vs the Hogue stock...I'll look into it.
Also, if you're hunting, you won't want a fixed power scope...I'd suggest looking into the Vortex PST line. For a .308 at the ranges I want to stretch mine to, I will most likely go with a PST 4-16x50 FFP Mil/Mil
Hmm interesting on the weight...I wonder what the breakdown is for the weight of the barreled action vs the Hogue stock...I'll look into it.
Also, if you're hunting, you won't want a fixed power scope...I'd suggest looking into the Vortex PST line. For a .308 at the ranges I want to stretch mine to, I will most likely go with a PST 4-16x50 FFP Mil/Mil
I know, but if I'm hunting the thicker stuff, I'll just take the '06 or an AR. By having only about $500 out of pocket in this rifle, it won't bother me as much for it to sit in the safe more. That $200 for the fixed 10x Mil/Mil scope is a steal. If I hunt the powerline cut, it's a 225yd shot and I take take the Remy.
ICANHITHIMMAN
11-29-12, 12:52
We shoot our bolt guns TOO MUCH to go with a Tikka or Savage. If you're like ASH556 and shoot 50 rounds in 4 years, one of those guns is just fine.
But we shoot 50 in one day, and run the guns 30-40 days per year.
I'm not looking for trouble, but what do you base this on? The two companies you mentioned make a rifle every bit the equal to, and in lots of areas superior to the rem 700. I own all 3 and consider the rem to be of lesser quality than the other two in almost every category except aesthetics.
The Tikka tactical is by far the best choice out of the box, followed by the savage. I only gave tikka the nod, due to the smoothness of the action. The aftermarket parts for both are cheaper and you can ditch the barrel nut if it bothers you as well. Plus have you felt an accutrigger OMG heaven!
Plus have you felt an accutrigger OMG heaven! You can't be serious.
ICANHITHIMMAN
11-29-12, 13:01
You can't be serious.
I'm dead serous, I have jard, timny and some tuned rem in my rifles now and the accutrigger is every bit as good, I'm blown away with how great it is.
You might as well have kicked his dog. :eek:
ASH,
Don't take this the wrong way but...
Judging by some of your other posts about precisoin rifles, or having the capability of precision, or the "what should I do" threads, it honestly seems to me that you don't really quite know what your "needs" are, or how best to fulfill those "needs". Also, it would help to be able to separate different roles for each rifle/platform and the requirements associated.
Just an observation, but hopefully it'll help you re-define the "what" and the "why" and the "how" for some of these recent threads of yours. Take into account what you already have and what role it fills, what it's capabilies are, how to enhance those if necessary, THEN decide if there are any deficiencies that need to be addressed. Put it down on paper...seriously.
Again, don't take it the wrong way, I understand how it is since I had to sit myself down recently and re-define all of this for myself too....and constantly remind myself of this :p
ICANHITHIMMAN
11-29-12, 13:11
You might as well have kicked his dog. :eek:
Dang sorry, just my opinion based on personal experience. Also I would never kick your dog unless it bit me then I would bite it back.
Dang sorry, just my opinion based on personal experience. Also I would never kick your dog unless it bit me then I would bite it back.
orkan scared Pappabear out of shooting my Rimfire Savage AccuTrigger... as though he'd get a horrible disease or some shit!
I have no idea how you have your other triggers setup, but an accutrigger will never be a timney 510 when it's properly setup.
Not EVER.
I'm not invalidating your opinion. You are entitled to it... but a "good trigger" is as much personal perception as "it's a nice day out." I've used some people's "good triggers" when afterward I had to look at my finger to see if there was a shit stain on it from touching the trigger.
Oh crap.... You boys done did it now. :D
ASH,
Don't take this the wrong way but...
Judging by some of your other posts about precisoin rifles, or having the capability of precision, or the "what should I do" threads, it honestly seems to me that you don't really quite know what your "needs" are, or how best to fulfill those "needs". Also, it would help to be able to separate different roles for each rifle/platform and the requirements associated.
Just an observation, but hopefully it'll help you re-define the "what" and the "why" and the "how" for some of these recent threads of yours. Take into account what you already have and what role it fills, what it's capabilies are, how to enhance those if necessary, THEN decide if there are any deficiencies that need to be addressed. Put it down on paper...seriously.
Again, don't take it the wrong way, I understand how it is since I had to sit myself down recently and re-define all of this for myself too....and constantly remind myself of this :p
I don't take it wrong. ;) In fact, it's an ongoing battle with probably a bit of overthinking going on.
Here's the deal: I'm a civilian. I don't shoot people for a living, but I do enjoy shooting and have a strong belief about defending myself, my family, and my home (not necessarily just my house).
So, guns, right? Isn't that why we're all here?
Lemme break it down the way I see it:
Handgun
This is the primary defensive weapon for me. It goes with me everywhere. For me it's an M&P 9 Full Size. I have another one that sits on the dresser at night with an X300, DG switch, and CT Laser grips.
Carbine
This is for if stuff gets bad...riots, natural disaster, invasion, etc. I have two of these. Mine are 5.56 AR platforms.
Daniel Defense 16" LW w/Aimpoint and Surefire
Daniel Defense 10.3" w/Aimpoint and Surefire
If I wake up to the door getting kicked in at home, I'll grab one of these instead of the pistol. Pistol is for investigating bumps in the night and for the wife to use if I'm on a carbine.
The setup makes these good 0-200yds. I know I can shoot further, but would be guessing at target ID and holdovers.
So, that leaves me wanting something heavier for anything that needs shooting further than 200yds or with more precision than an Aimpoint-equipped carbine. Granted, that's not a very likely scenario, but neither is any of what we prepare for.
I tried putting long range scopes on the 16" carbine to turn it into a precision gun, but it doesn't do so well with the LW barrel. Plus, I want to have something available in a heavier caliber than 5.56.
I thought about just using my 30/06 hunting rifle for a precision gun, but that has a walnut stock and a lightweight sporter barrel. It will probably suffer from the same issues as the LW 16" 5.56 in terms of accuracy.
So, that puts me back into building a heavy barrel .308. I'd like it to be light enough that I could hunt with it, but I don't NEED it to hunt with.
More thoughts?
ETA: Here is a thread I started 2 years ago that basically says the same thing. I tried some stuff in the last two years and still have the same question, but at least I've crossed some options off the list:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=67325&highlight=shtf+fighting+guns
too old for this
11-29-12, 14:32
I had Mike Bush and Tim Cronin over at Black Ops Precision build me a rifle last year. I am very impressed with their level of craftsmanship, which is as incredible as the performance of the rifle. Give them a look. Their website doesn't yet show their hunting line called Wildcall Custom Rifles, but they are turning out some excellent products for the field as well as their tactical stuff. Mike uses his proprietary bottom metal and action, which is produced by Defiance machine. Both are located in Columbia Falls, Montana.
http://blackopsprecision.com/
ICANHITHIMMAN
11-29-12, 16:16
I have no idea how you have your other triggers setup, but an accutrigger will never be a timney 510 when it's properly setup.
Not EVER.
I'm not invalidating your opinion. You are entitled to it... but a "good trigger" is as much personal perception as "it's a nice day out." I've used some people's "good triggers" when afterward I had to look at my finger to see if there was a shit stain on it from touching the trigger.
Gosh man I really wish I could show you. You guys sound like fun, I have a felling your a hard sell:D
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