View Full Version : GAO Denies Latest Colt M4 Protest
30 cal slut
11-29-12, 06:11
Sorry if a dupe. Wasn't sure whether to put this here or in AR General Discussion.
I kinda wonder if this is going to accelerate plans for CLTDEF and Colt's Manufactring to get back together, and for CLTDEF to start selling a LOT more rifles to the commercial channel now. Recall CLTDEF is also trying to sell more M4's to international militaries. What's keeping them afloat right now? A large Malaysian contract (3/5 of the way through) and ... us lowly civilians (shipments to Colt's Manufacturing, which markets the 6920's to the commercial distributors, have been tracking at half of CLTDEF's sales).
http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gearscout/2012/11/28/gao-denies-latest-colt-m4-protest-could-this-be-it/
The lights are on and the credits are rolling in the Army’s M4 contract drama, and the story doesn’t appear to be ending well for Colt Defense. The GAO has released a decision dismissing Colt’s latest protest of the $83.9 million M4 contract award to Remington.
The latest decision, dated Nov. 16, dismisses Colt’s protest of the Army’s interpretation of the M4 technical data package licensing agreement. This is a complicated issue, but the dismissal should clear the way for the Remington to resume work on the M4 contract.
nineteenkilo
11-29-12, 08:36
The funny part about it is that Remington doesn't even have all of the tooling in place. They will have to spend a fair amount of money to increase tooling and production and can still sell the weapon for less money than Colt - who already owns everything???
Yeah, I can see why their protests are beginning to fall on deaf ears. This just simply doesn't shine a favorable light on Colt.
Combined this with all of the customers in the civilian market they pissed on for years and this could be really, really bad for them. I mean worse than is currently obvious.
30 cal slut
11-29-12, 08:38
We are looking at another possible bankruptcy here.
Stay tuned.
The funny part about it is that Remington doesn't even have all of the tooling in place. They will have to spend a fair amount of money to increase tooling and production and can still sell the weapon for less money than Colt - who already owns everything???
Yeah, I can see why their protests are beginning to fall on deaf ears. This just simply doesn't shine a favorable light on Colt.
Combined this with all of the customers in the civilian market they pissed on for years and this could be really, really bad for them. I mean worse than is currently obvious.
Where did you get your information that Remington does not have tooling in place? That strikes me as odd since their parent company has purchased 2-3 AR companies in the past five years.
Where did you get your information that Remington does not have tooling in place? That strikes me as odd since their parent company has purchased 2-3 AR companies in the past five years.
Not 19K, but I read that on GearScout (http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gearscout/2012/11/28/gao-denies-latest-colt-m4-protest-could-this-be-it/#more-17166) this AM.
nineteenkilo
11-29-12, 13:06
Where did you get your information that Remington does not have tooling in place? That strikes me as odd since their parent company has purchased 2-3 AR companies in the past five years.
From the article itself.
"PRODUCTION CAPABILITY: As far as the Army’s evaluation of Remington’s production capability, Colt says it should have been rated higher than Remington since Colt has the facilities, machinery and tooling already in place to build the guns; Remington does not. The GAO agreed with the Army’s stance that Remington has “more than ample facilities to meet the requirement with no additional facilities required. … Remington has some, but not all the required key tooling and equipment in place, but its proposal provided a very detailed plan for key tooling and equipment.”
The GAO concluded that the Army is capable of making this determination and denied Colt’s protest."
GeorgiaBoy
11-29-12, 13:18
I'll admit I'm a bit ignorant on all of this... Fill me in.
If Remington keeps the contract, does this mean Colt will no longer be producing M4's for the military, once their current production contract is up? Remington will become what Colt is now, and military contracts won't be keeping Colt afloat?
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theblackknight
11-29-12, 13:52
Something something good ole boy system, something something those dam unions.
sent from mah gun,using my sights
The funny part about it is that Remington doesn't even have all of the tooling in place. They will have to spend a fair amount of money to increase tooling and production and can still sell the weapon for less money than Colt - who already owns everything???
Yeah, I can see why their protests are beginning to fall on deaf ears. This just simply doesn't shine a favorable light on Colt.
Combined this with all of the customers in the civilian market they pissed on for years and this could be really, really bad for them. I mean worse than is currently obvious.
This. My guess is that Remy is looking at the future (and will pay off all the new equipment with future contracts).
C4
I'll admit I'm a bit ignorant on all of this... Fill me in.
If Remington keeps the contract, does this mean Colt will no longer be producing M4's for the military, once their current production contract is up? Remington will become what Colt is now, and military contracts won't be keeping Colt afloat?
Sent from my iPhone 4S using Tapatalk
Assuming that Remy keeps the contract, they will be able to produce M4's for the Govt, but not the commercial market (as Colt keeps the license).
C4
The funny part about it is that Remington doesn't even have all of the tooling in place. They will have to spend a fair amount of money to increase tooling and production and can still sell the weapon for less money than Colt - who already owns everything???
Which if true, begs the question, why Remington? It's not like they are a company known for their history of producing high volumes of quality M4s. There's a number of existing companies that could easily fill that contract no? Is this a case of lowest bidder or is someones uncle on the committee? What am I missing?
In my opinion (based only on what I have seen and know) I am highly suspect that Remington will be able to fulfill it's obligations.
GeorgiaBoy
11-29-12, 17:36
Assuming that Remy keeps the contract, they will be able to produce M4's for the Govt, but not the commercial market (as Colt keeps the license).
C4
So Colt will no longer being producing M4's for the military? Only the law enforcement/civilian market?
So Colt will no longer being producing M4's for the military? Only the law enforcement/civilian market?
Correct or until they win another contract.
C4
The funny part about it is that Remington doesn't even have all of the tooling in place. They will have to spend a fair amount of money to increase tooling and production and can still sell the weapon for less money than Colt - who already owns everything???
Yeah, I can see why their protests are beginning to fall on deaf ears. This just simply doesn't shine a favorable light on Colt.
Combined this with all of the customers in the civilian market they pissed on for years and this could be really, really bad for them. I mean worse than is currently obvious.
All I can honestly say is that my 6940 carbine is superb, as is my latest 1911(Rail Gun). Nonetheless, I have had many terrible examples from Colt's over the years, some inoperable from the box...Always they gave me attitude when pursuing warranty issues, always....
HackerF15E
11-29-12, 20:42
Maybe Colt will finally be forced to re-tool their business operations for actually dealing with the general public.
So Colt will no longer being producing M4's for the military? Only the law enforcement/civilian market?
Correct or until they win another contract.
C4
I wonder what this will do for their quality?
Will they keep the current high standards (at least for what their ARs are known for), or are they going to go full-on commercial and just spam them out as cheaply as possible like some other companies we all know and love... :p
30 cal slut
11-29-12, 23:15
Maybe Colt will finally be forced to re-tool their business operations for actually dealing with the general public.
Ownership and management are part of the problem.
CLTDEF is not run by "gun guys."
I wonder what this will do for their quality?
Will they keep the current high standards (at least for what their ARs are known for), or are they going to go full-on commercial and just spam them out as cheaply as possible like some other companies we all know and love... :p
From what I know, nothing. They only know how to make guns one way.
On top of this, in order for Colt to do a "cheap" line and still continue LE and Foreign "quality" guns, they would have to have two separate sets of parts on the assembly line. This is always a recipe for disaster and why companies don't do it.
C4
Ownership and management are part of the problem.
CLTDEF is not run by "gun guys."
I don't know of any large manufacturer that is. The guy in charge of making decisions in regards to gun configurations at Colt Defense is pretty good and I deal with him on a regular basis.
Look for a G&R "exclusive" Colt in 2013 and some other guns with our direct input. ;)
C4
Never forget: Gun companies aren't in business to make guns, they're in business to make money.
GeorgiaBoy
11-30-12, 10:23
I don't know of any large manufacturer that is. The guy in charge of making decisions in regards to gun configurations at Colt Defense is pretty good and I deal with him on a regular basis.
Look for a G&R "exclusive" Colt in 2013 and some other guns with our direct input. ;)
C4
Factory AR15-A2. :big_boss:
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