View Full Version : Good purchase?
I am contemplating a S&W M&P15T for $949. Comes w some extras.
Details
•Semi-auto, gas-operated
•Hard coat anodized black receiver
•4140 steel barrel w/1 in 8'' 5R rifling & Melonite® finish
•6-position telescopic stock
•Magpul® folding sights
•Magpul® PMAG magazine
•10'' patent pending, anti-twist, free-floating rail
•OAL: 35''
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=319151998
Considering a BCM LW middy but wondering if this would be a good alternative budget purchase.
Littlelebowski
11-29-12, 11:13
Looks good to me if you are fine with paying more for that rail which I personally don't like.
I have direct, firsthand experience with an S&W AR.
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Not a bad gun assuming yoy like all the option. It is no BCM though.
C4
S&W makes nice rifles assuming it's a recent production; their old ones that used 1/9 twist, etc were pretty much junk. Looks like a new model, however. Go for it if that's what you want, but for that price you're in BCM and Colt territory which leads me to the question... Why the S&W? The rail looks very meh.
hogfan1911
11-29-12, 12:16
I have a BCM LW middy. I wouldn't trade it for that S&W + the relatively small cash difference. Hope that helps.
my neighbor just got one.they are very nice!the one thing i didn`t care for was the ar 15 bcg and plain butt stock for the money.seems well made other than that.
IMHO, S&W are budget/first AR type of rifles. As other posters have stated you can get a lot more rifle for not a lot more money. With a BCM you know your are getting a top quality professional rifle you can rely on. The S&W's are better than the Oly's and DMPS rifles but still not a gun I would want to defend myself or my family with.
Good luck.
ac130usnsr
11-29-12, 13:20
The S&W is a good rifle. I've been very pleased with the Sport I got for $500 when they first came out (I did replace the upper with an Aero Precision though, which makes it pretty much the same thing as what you're looking at, minus the rail.). I really like the S&W lower a lot. But, at the price you're looking at it just isn't worth it when you can walk into Walmart and buy a Colt LE6920 for $100 more.
What kind of rail is that? Looks like a UTG or something. My S&W M&P 15T came with a TROY MRF rail. They must of switched rails to bring the cost down.
S@W has been good to me when I sent in my revolver for nitpicking warranty work . But the the S@W ARs are made with bolt action quality steel to put it simply. The Daniel defense, Colt and Bravo Company are made with machine gun quality steel to put it simply and are built to the absolute highest standards. Does it matter ? To me it does as I have been a hot rod car and drag boat hobbiest and to build big block Chevrolet engines that live at 8,000 rpm for the boating season the extra price for the best steel, metal testing procedures, mpi testing etc. pays me back tenfold with a long lasting reliable engine. IMO the bad thing about the AR is it is built like an aircraft whereas the AK is built like an old farm tractor [if you don't know the reasoning to the differences you probably wouldn't understand as it is not a bad or good it just is a how it is]:sarcastic:
The S&W's are better than the Oly's and DMPS rifles but still not a gun I would want to defend myself or my family with.
Good luck.
Would I buy this particular M&P? No, but if this S&W proves to be reliable through the first 1000 rounds with no more than a couple simple cleanings, I wouldn't hesitate to use it for defense.
The S&W isn't built to the same specs as a Colt, DD, BCM, or Noveske, but there is really nothing substantial that would indicate that the M&P in question would be inherently unreliable based on its specs or S&W build quality.
If I was on a budget, I'd forego the rail and buy a BCM middy (non-CHF) w/ BCM BCG and slap it on a lower with a decent LPK. It would still be <$1k. Regardless, I'd still run at least 500 rounds of XM193 through it without any major cleanings in between to demonstrate reliability.
I see that rifle has sold. Did you drop the trigger on it or are you still open to suggestions? If so here is another vote for the BCM. We have two rifles in the house with BCM light weight barrels. Find a BCM upper with a Centurion Arms C4 rail and you have a real winner of a combination. If you are eligible to attend a EAG course then one of the BCM EAG rifles is a nice package and a bargain with its included training course voucher.
The_Hammer_Man
12-01-12, 15:02
Rifles and Carbines are like suspenders ... sort of.
A good pair of suspenders will hold your pants up all day everyday for years. A bad set will have your trousers "bouncing to the beat" with ever step because they were made with sub par components.
So... using that analogy....
BCM is a "known good" product.... S&W's product has a less than sterling track record.
Get the BCM ... its like a set of good suspenders AND a belt. Everything you need to feel secure in your choices.
Food for thought anyway....
S&W's product has a less than sterling track record.
Oh, do tell? The ones I have seen have all ran quite well.
I've been around a number of S&W's over the years and I believe that once you go below the KAC, Noveske, Colt. DD, BCM, and LMT it is better than most of those that are left. It would be my choice over the RRA, Armalites, Bushies, Oly's, and on and on. It's a solid rifle in my experience. It sort of bridges the gap between the hard use guns and the hobby guns in my opinion.
Not a bad gun assuming yoy like all the option. It is no BCM though.
C4
Or a Colt or a Daniel Defense.Or even a premium Palmetto product.
Got a M&P15OR, then bought a BCM upper with DD rail, and BCM BCG. The S&W is no BCM. I wish I knew the exact differences before I purchased, live and learn I guess.
I, however, kept the S&W lower reciever, its fit and finish was perfect for the BCM upper. It is, however, completely gutted, nothing S&W on it except bolt release. And its painted. :D
I'd get a S&W lower. And yes, Mil-Spec trigger and hammer pins do fit. Also, I forgot, the S&W buffer tube is still on the lower. It fit the Mil-Spec Magpul stock, though. Spring was replaced with a new Mil-spec one.
I had a Smith M&P15 that was a fine carbine. I put an H2 buffer in it after trying to learn more about AR's and realizing that mine was over gassed. It never had one failure.
If it was me dropping 949 I am doing a BCM mid length no questions asked, for off the shelf I would do a Colt 6920 for just 100 bucks more.
Got a M&P15OR, then bought a BCM upper with DD rail, and BCM BCG. The S&W is no BCM. I wish I knew the exact differences before I purchased, live and learn I guess.
I, however, kept the S&W lower reciever, its fit and finish was perfect for the BCM upper. It is, however, completely gutted, nothing S&W on it except bolt release. And its painted. :D
I'd get a S&W lower. And yes, Mil-Spec trigger and hammer pins do fit. Also, I forgot, the S&W buffer tube is still on the lower. It fit the Mil-Spec Magpul stock, though. Spring was replaced with a new Mil-spec one.All you had to do is read the spec sheets.
All you had to do is read the spec sheets.
Yeah I know it. I just did not know what it meant when I bought it. I was getting information from the wrong sources in person.
Rifles and Carbines are like suspenders ... sort of.
A good pair of suspenders will hold your pants up all day everyday for years. A bad set will have your trousers "bouncing to the beat" with ever step because they were made with sub par components.
So... using that analogy....
I also usually think of suspender quality when assessing a firearm's performance, but that said what are your specific issues with the S&W? Just so we understand beyond the clothing reference.
scoutfsu99
12-01-12, 21:10
Enjoy the UTG rail:(
I should have added my problems with the S&W. Though I actually have shot my BCM more, I only had the S&W for a little while as I was able to get a new upper.
But I did have these issues in a short time: It cannot be ran as hard as the BCM. I lubed up the BCG cause it was sitting for a while, slid it in the upper, then slapped it back on the lower, it jammed up the second shot, then jammed again. I was thinking maybe I did not put on enough lube. But considering then my BCM was pretty dry a filthy, I just put the BCM back on, mad at the S&W. It also jammed one of my first times shooting it for some reason, no big deal I guess, but the BCM has never did that when well lubed and clean like the S&W was at that time.
Its carbine length gas system, to me, has a stronger recoil pulse than the mid-length. The barrel, M4 profile, heated up faster and hotter through the handguards than my BCM.
I cannot say for sure, but it MAY have been a problem, but the 1/9 twist MAY have not stabilized my Mk262 as well as my BCM 1/7.
The hand guards on mine are also not very good, IMHO. Again, my preference, the railed gas block that they do is not good. Functions fine, it probably does. It is just another thing that I am not fan of.
I cannot say for sure, but it MAY have been a problem, but the 1/9 twist MAY have not stabilized my Mk262 as well as my BCM 1/7.
Anything over 70gr is usually better served with a 1/7 for just that reason. Some would even say 62gr-67gr, but I've had mixed results.
Some earlier S&W's had tight chambers and there were issues with primers blowing. I also don't care for the large(r) gas port and the 1/9 barrels. That's just me.
Oh, do tell? The ones I have seen have all ran quite well.
Some earlier S&W's had tight chambers and there were issues with primers blowing. I also don't care for the large(r) gas port and the 1/9 barrels. That's just me.
That what I was looking for, a bit of specificity and experience beyond a blanket condemnation. Although never a big fan of 1/9, the M&P's I have seen have performed as expected.
The_Hammer_Man
12-02-12, 03:56
+1 to what irangunz stated about the chambers and the oversized gas ports.
Here in Wisconsin they've only recently started authorizing officers to buy their own patrol carbines and, like most cops, they don't have big budgets. So in the early days, about 3 yrs ago, we saw a lot of RRA and S&W's being purchased.
list of things that had to be worked over for reliability's sake.
Improperly staked BCG's
(most of the BCG's were semi not full auto style)
Improperly or completely unstaked castle nuts
Trigger pins either under sized or over.
(unders would walk out..overs would bind)
A2 FSB's pinned at an angle, not at true vertical.
(in most cases it wasn't horrible.. but in a few it was.)
Extractors failing due to low strength springs
(a BCM extractor upgrade was the fix for this)
That being said.. SW has come a long way since in making their weapons more reliable. In fact I own and shoot/train with one of their 5.45x39 uppers.
Did I fine tooth inspect it? Oh, you bet I did before I even paid for it. Good thing the FFL in question is a friend who understands how OCD I can be.
Would it be my first choice as a SHTF weapon? No.
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