Random part fell out of my upper? [Archive]

Zeeb44

11-29-12, 19:16

So I got in my Wyndham Weaponry Upper today and put it on the lower that I built. I was testing the function, seems to work great. Then I took it apart and the bolt wouldnt come out. I rotated the upper and a piece fell out. Something I have not seen before, did not have this piece at all with the lower build and am unfamiliar with it in an upper. So I was wondering if maybe it was an extra piece from something else that just somehow got lodged in my upper upon shipping? Does it look familiar and does it go on the upper somewhere? It doesnt look "Broken" like it came off of something, I don't see any side of it that looks like it should be attached to metal.

Any help would be great. Thanks in advance!

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/61642105/IMG_1784.JPG

lethal dose

11-29-12, 19:20

Better pics? I'm viewing it on an iPhone.

Zeeb44

11-29-12, 19:21

Pics?

There is one in the first post? It is rather large so may take a second to load.

GRANTFTW

11-29-12, 19:21

Looks like maby part of the forward assist.

Zeeb44

11-29-12, 19:23

Looks like maby part of the forward assist.

Ah yes I think thats what it is. There is no part in there now that is "assisting" the bolt. It is not making contact and now that rings a bell. Thanks, I'll strip it down!

Heavy Metal

11-29-12, 19:23

I guessed before I opened this thread.

Forward assist pawl.

Zeeb44

11-29-12, 19:24

I guessed before I opened this thread.

Forward assist pawl.

I am a new AR owner, obviously. But is this something that is common? Or should I be worried about the forward assist?

althor

11-29-12, 19:25

post deleted

Heavy Metal

11-29-12, 19:25

Just order another Forward Assist Assembly and switch them out. Save the one you have now for parts. Brownells carries them as do other places. It is cheaper and less hassle than returning the rifle or even the upper.

It is NOT an expensive item.

If you are careful you can remove the old without even driving the capture pin all the way out.

Zeeb44

11-29-12, 19:27

ok, thanks for the help and the tip.

lethal dose

11-29-12, 19:30

Yep. Pawl. I see it now. Looks like the roll pin broke (hard to see). As HM stated, remove and replace. I wouldn't even screw with Windgam's CS, as I assume it's subpar based on the contact a few members here have stated the tried to make.

Heavy Metal

11-29-12, 19:31

You will need a 3/32nd straight shaft pin punch to drive it out.

Make sure you do not lose the spring when it comes out.

GRANTFTW

11-29-12, 19:32

I am a new AR owner, obviously. But is this something that is common? Or should I be worried about the forward assist?

Ive mainly runned Bcm's so not common on my end. My buddy just bought a WW so ill have to check and see what his look's like, but someone at the factory musta punched the roll pin in too far. Their a relatively new company. And will prob take care of anything itll need. Otherwise you could prob fix it easily.

C4IGrant

11-29-12, 19:34

I am a new AR owner, obviously. But is this something that is common? Or should I be worried about the forward assist?

No, not common and honestly have never seen this happen before.

Were you using the forward assist? Did you smack it or hit the forward assist hard?

C4

Zeeb44

11-29-12, 19:35

Ive mainly runned Bcm's so not common on my end. My buddy just bought a WW so ill have to check and see what his look's like, but someone at the factory musta punched the roll pin in too far. Their a relatively new company. And will prob take care of anything itll need. Otherwise you could prob fix it easily.

Well they are mostly employees of the old Bushe Master, so I would expect the quality to be there. I'm not gonna waster their time or mine with trying to get them to replace it. Easy fix so I don't mind doing it.

TCBA_Joe

11-29-12, 19:38

C4IGrant

11-29-12, 19:38

Well they are mostly employees of the old Bushe Master, so I would expect the quality to be there. I'm not gonna waster their time or mine with trying to get them to replace it. Easy fix so I don't mind doing it.

This is interesting. First, why do you think that BM makes quality AR's? Second, why do you think a company that does not follow the TDP in anyway would make or use a quality parts?

C4

Zeeb44

11-29-12, 19:42

This is interesting. First, why do you think that BM makes quality AR's? Second, why do you think a company that does not follow the TDP in anyway would make or use a quality parts?

C4

They used to make good AR's until they got bought out. Just what I have heard and seen.

C4IGrant

11-29-12, 19:43

They used to make good AR's until they got bought out. Just what I have heard and seen.

Can you tell me when this was?

C4

markm

11-29-12, 19:47

Zeeb44

11-29-12, 19:48

Can you tell me when this was?

C4

it was sold to Freedom Group in 2006, who also owns: DMPS, H&R, TAPCO, Remington and a handful of other companies...

Did you really not know that or are you trying to troll me?

C4IGrant

11-29-12, 19:50

it was sold to Freedom Group in 2006, who also owns: DMPS, H&R, TAPCO, Remington and a handful of other companies...

Did you really not know that or are you trying to troll me?

You missed the question (even though I bolded what you said).

You said that they (BM) used to make quality guns. I asked you when did BM ever make a quality AR??

C4

Zeeb44

11-29-12, 19:50

There was never a time when Bushmaster made good guns... They've produced functional stuff and USED to be the only option aside from COLT.

The Pawl roll pin breaking is quite uncommon, but I've heard of it happening. It's the reason some lunatics don't want a FA on their guns.... kind of like not leaving your house because you could be in a car wreck or get hit by lightning. :rolleyes:

That may be true too. I know the market has exploded the past few years, but I have always heard Bushmaster made good guns until they got bought out. But what do I know :confused: I'm still learning every day!

C4IGrant

11-29-12, 19:52

Zeeb44

11-29-12, 19:53

You missed the question (even though I bolded what you said).

You said that they (BM) used to make quality guns. I asked you when that was.

C4

I do not know, this is just what I have heard. I shot a few way back in the day and they seemed great as well. But I did not know much about them then. I just have never heard bad things of BM until they got bought out and of recent, seems like they are being bashed all the time now. The reviews of Windham I have heard have been great as well. But everyone has their own opinion. I'll find out how nice this upper is after I have used it for a while.

Zeeb44

11-29-12, 19:54

Who did you hear this from (that BM made quality guns)?

C4

A lot of people over the years, gun owners, gun store employees, online articles etc. But this was before they got bought out. All I hear now are bad reviews of bushmaster as it stands now.

markm

11-29-12, 19:56

A lot of people over the years, gun owners, gun store employees, online articles etc.

We (gun owners/shooters) have access to MUCH better info about our ARs these days. Read around this site for a while and you'll pick up on a lot of things that Good ARs companies do that Bushmaster has never done.

Gun store employees and articles are historically horrible sources for GOOD info.

C4IGrant

11-29-12, 19:57

I do not know, this is just what I have heard. I shot a few way back in the day and they seemed great as well. But I did not know much about them then. I just have never heard bad things of BM until they got bought out and of recent, seems like they are being bashed all the time now. The reviews of Windham I have heard have been great as well. But everyone has their own opinion. I'll find out how nice this upper is after I have used it for a while.

No one I know thinks that BM or WW makes a quality AR (including myself).

Couple quick facts:

1. Neither company follows the TDP.
2. They use some of the cheapest parts they can find (as you found out).
3. They do not properly assembly their weapons

If you want a quality AR, look to Colt, Noveske, BCM, DD, KAC, LMT, etc.

C4

C4IGrant

11-29-12, 19:58

A lot of people over the years, gun owners, gun store employees, online articles etc. But this was before they got bought out. All I hear now are bad reviews of bushmaster as it stands now.

Any reputable sources?

C4

Zeeb44

11-29-12, 20:00

We (gun owners/shooters) have access to MUCH better info about our ARs these days. Read around this site for a while and you'll pick up on a lot of things that Good ARs companies do that Bushmaster has never done.

Gun store employees and articles are historically horrible sources for GOOD info.

I am glad I joined. I plan on doing a lot of reading on this site. Are there any other good forums out there as well? How is http://www.ar15.com/forums/ ?

No one I know thinks that BM or WW makes a quality AR (including myself).

Couple quick facts:

1. Neither company follows the TDP.
2. They use some of the cheapest parts they can find (as you found out).
3. They do not properly assembly their weapons

If you want a quality AR, look to Colt, Noveske, BCM, DD, KAC, LMT, etc.

C4

I like BCM, DD and Colt. Pricey, but nice.

Any reputable sources?

C4
Probably not, I don't remember though. Like I said it has been years.

C4IGrant

11-29-12, 20:04

I am glad I joined. I plan on doing a lot of reading on this site. Are there any other good forums out there as well? How is http://www.ar15.com/forums/ ?

I like BCM, DD and Colt. Pricey, but nice.

Probably not, I don't remember though. Like I said it has been years.

Like everything else in life, you get what you pay for. If your AR is just a toy, buy whatever you want. If you intend on betting your life on it, want to attend carbine training, etc, buy something of quality.

C4

Zeeb44

11-29-12, 20:06

Like everything else in life, you get what you pay for. If your AR is just a toy, buy whatever you want. If you intend on betting your life on it, want to attend carbine training, etc, buy something of quality.

C4

I plan on taking training courses, and want to get into some competition too one day. But my buy was more or less an impulse buy after the election and my budget was a little restricted due to just moving. So I built the lower and bought the upper online. Didn't save too much money but was able to buy it in pieces over a few weeks. I definitely plan on adding to the gun and buying more high quality parts in the future.

Iraqgunz

11-29-12, 20:13

This happened to one of our M4's when I was in Bahrain and it completely destroyed the upper because it was wedged in between the upper receiver and BCG. The receiver ended up splitting and it had to be coded out.

It's far from common, but as far as WW is concerned I chalk it up to biz as usual.

Iraqgunz

11-29-12, 20:15

You will come to find out that most people don't have a clue and that goes equally for people who write for gun rags and work at gun stores.

One reason why I buy online and avoid gun stores at all cost.

A lot of people over the years, gun owners, gun store employees, online articles etc. But this was before they got bought out. All I hear now are bad reviews of bushmaster as it stands now.

lethal dose

11-29-12, 20:16

I'll say this because some folks can't/won't... AR15.com sucks. It's like all the gun store commandos commuted to the same place. If you want purchase justification, by all means... sign up there. If you want the unbiased truth, stick around here. Windham is subpar. Not the end of the world. Fix the FA with a quality unit. Secondly, make sure everything (carrier key and castle nut) is staked properly. Third, grab a spare c158 bolt (I do this for all my rifles). Fourth, get the gun set up to your best liking with quality light, quality sling, quality optic, quality etc. of your choice. Fifth, go shoot. Start with a basic carbine class and go from there. Kick bad habits early on. Any questions? Search. Think. Post. Welcome.

Zeeb44

11-29-12, 20:17

lethal dose

11-29-12, 20:34

Depending on your area, lots of vetted folks here would be happy to meet up and shoot or there may be a Vickers endorsed instructor in your area.

Zeeb44

11-29-12, 21:19

Depending on your area, lots of vetted folks here would be happy to meet up and shoot or there may be a Vickers endorsed instructor in your area.

Greenville Area.

Heavy Metal

11-29-12, 21:45

You are proabally less than three hours from Fayetteville NC, LAV's home base.

You are even closer to Charlotte and I think our own NCPatrolAR is a Vickers certified and endorsed Instructor and operates out of there.

You are close to many opportunities.

Zeeb44

11-29-12, 21:50

You are proabally less than three hours from Fayetteville NC, LAV's home base.

You are even closer to Charlotte and I think NCPatrolAR is a Vickers certified and endorsed Instructor and operates out of there.

You are close to many opportunities.

Thanks for the info, what does LAV stand for, and is Vickers a methodology in training or a type of class? They have websites for these places?

Redhat

11-29-12, 21:56

No, not common and honestly have never seen this happen before.

Were you using the forward assist? Did you smack it or hit the forward assist hard?

C4

I've seen it happen...to my issued Colt M16A2. Just finished cleaning & lubricating it and there it went.

lethal dose

11-29-12, 21:59

Greenville Area.

SC? I'm in Gvegas.

Heavy Metal

11-29-12, 22:07

Edit-Taken care of.

glocktogo

11-29-12, 22:11

Thanks for the info, what does LAV stand for, and is Vickers a methodology in training or a type of class? They have websites for these places?

Larry A. Vickers, sometimes called The LAV. Former Delta operator and very highly regarded trainer. He's also a great 1911 gunsmith and teaches a class specifically on building and running 1911's. There are a lot of good instructors mentioned on this site. in-depth knowledge of the AR platform is also a hallmark of this forum. Knowledge that goes far beyond ordinary and fawning fanboyism.

From the sound of it, your learning curve here will be nearly vertical for a while. Read all the stickies you can and use the search feature for info on parts, systems and acronyms. Stuff like the aforementioned c158 bolt refers to a HPT and MPT (High Pressure Tested and Magnetic Particle Tested) Carpenter 158 grade bolt, which is much less likely to fail at a critical point.

Welcome aboard and good luck! :)

Zeeb44

11-29-12, 22:13

Larry A. Vickers, sometimes called The LAV. Former Delta operator and very highly regarded trainer. He's also a great 1911 gunsmith and teaches a class specifically on building and running 1911's. There are a lot of good instructors mentioned on this site. in-depth knowledge of the AR platform is also a hallmark of this forum. Knowledge that goes far beyond ordinary and fawning fanboyism.

From the sound of it, your learning curve here will be nearly vertical for a while. Read all the stickies you can and use the search feature for info on parts, systems and acronyms. Stuff like the aforementioned c158 bolt refers to a HPT and MPT (High Pressure Tested and Magnetic Particle Tested) Carpenter 158 grade bolt, which is much less likely to fail at a critical point.

Welcome aboard and good luck! :)

Thanks!:D I'll have to check it out. I have a 1911 and Love it.

JSantoro

11-30-12, 10:54

Thanks for the info, what does LAV stand for, and is Vickers a methodology in training or a type of class? They have websites for these places?

http://defensiveconceptsnc.com/

I'll be going to his 8 Dec lo-light pistol class. Carbine classes are offered, as well.

General info on VSM instructors: http://defensiveconceptsnc.com/vickersshootingmethod.html

Eastern NC, as a whole, is a frickin' Las Vegas of training opportunities....

BCM, DD, Colt, if you spend $1200 gun, you have a $1200 gun.

BM or WW, if you buy a $1200 gun, you have a $700 gun. Not the end of the world, by any means; if you want to make them run as well as they possibley can, we have a stickied thread just for that: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=7376

Thus endeth the thread-drift. Let's bring it back to the breakage...

Heavy Metal

11-30-12, 11:13

One slight additional detour if I may:

That was the link I forgot to put in my post on the last page when I mentioned NCPatrolAR, the link JSantoro just posted above.

Defensive Concepts North Carolina is NCPatrolAR's company.

That would be a good place for you to start. Only an hour from Greenville.

warpigM-4

11-30-12, 11:42

Welcome to M4C Zeeb44 Please Do Not think you are being singled out or attacked .
you will find out that this site runs on a No BS attitude sometimes it stings at first ,but you learn quickly everyone is here to help you get to Most out of your weapon that could be used to save your Life one day.
I came here thinking I was pretty set Knowing AR-15's :blink: But with help from members like C41Grant,Irangunz,JSantoro,MarkM and many others .I didn't know Jack and praise the day i found this site ,

the Knowledge On this site is unbelievable and i learn something new everyday I visit M4C

Sticks

12-01-12, 07:08

This is interesting. First, why do you think that BM makes quality AR's? Second, why do you think a company that does not follow the TDP in anyway would make or use a quality parts?

C4

I'd say that BM/WW makes a few good AR's. They probably have the same rate of good ones leaving the factory as BCM, Colt, DD, Noveske, letting an "oops" out the door (which will get resolved before your brain can process what just happened on the phone call you made to them).

I'd rather gamble on "might get a problem child" rather than "might be a good one".

C4IGrant

12-01-12, 07:58

I'd say that BM/WW makes a few good AR's. They probably have the same rate of good ones leaving the factory as BCM, Colt, DD, Noveske, letting an "oops" out the door (which will get resolved before your brain can process what just happened on the phone call you made to them).

I'd rather gamble on "might get a problem child" rather than "might be a good one".

The term "good" means many things to many people. For me, GOOD would mean that they follow the TDP in all the vital parts. Then they would properly assemble the gun.

IMHO, this leaves BM and WW out of this definition.

C4

sinlessorrow

12-01-12, 10:22

That may be true too. I know the market has exploded the past few years, but I have always heard Bushmaster made good guns until they got bought out. But what do I know :confused: I'm still learning every day!

BM never made good guns, the issue is back when it was the ABC's(armalite, bushmaster, colt) they were one of the only makers in town. Today we have places like BCM that make far better guns that actually follow the TDP.

Sticks

12-01-12, 11:33

The term "good" means many things to many people. For me, GOOD would mean that they follow the TDP in all the vital parts. Then they would properly assemble the gun.

IMHO, this leaves BM and WW out of this definition.

C4
Point.

Zeeb44

12-01-12, 17:32

BM never made good guns, the issue is back when it was the ABC's(armalite, bushmaster, colt) they were one of the only makers in town. Today we have places like BCM that make far better guns that actually follow the TDP.

I really hate to ask, but I don't know what tdp stands for? Is it a standard way of building them or something?

NoveskeFan

12-01-12, 17:39

I really hate to ask, but I don't know what tdp stands for? Is it a standard way of building them or something?

Technical Data Package

On a side note, I had a FA fail like that in a Doublestar.

6933

12-01-12, 17:54

I'd say that BM/WW makes a few good AR's. They probably have the same rate of good ones leaving the factory as BCM, Colt, DD, Noveske, letting an "oops" out the door

I would say not. When talking with Pat Rogers, LAV, or other top instructors that see thousands of rifles a year that shoot tens of thousands of rounds, they will say that BM, RRA, Oly, and Armalite(and I'm sure Windham will be added) have a higher rate of issues than Colt, BCM, Noveske, DD, LaRue, or KAC. This isn't new news.