View Full Version : Primer Crimp Removal: Hornady Primer Pocket Reamer vs. Dillon Super Swage 600
30 cal slut
11-29-12, 23:04
After using a Dillon Super Swage to get the crimp out of military 5.56 brass primer pockets, and becoming increasingly frustrated with it, I ordered a Hornady Primer Pocket Reamer at the suggestion of some folks here.
I kinda wish I had one of these before putting some $$$ on the Dillon.
What I like about the Hornady Pocket Reamer: It's cheap. $10 for the small primer pocket tool, and extra cutting heads can be had for slightly less. It takes 2-3 turns to remove the crimp - and you're done. You need to do this over a bucket because of the brass shavings.
What's pissing me off with the Dillon Super Swage 600 It's becoming increasingly apparent that it's not worth the $100 I spent on it. If you do a lot of reloading, the swage rod only lasts about 1,000 rounds before it gets worn down and has to be replaced (a $20 part). Well before that, I found myself having to swage the same pocket multiple times and then having to fiddle with the case locator rod to get the case closer to the swage rod. Worse, the locator rod can "bell" the neck of the case, which sucks if you've already resized your brass. Lastly, the thing has to be mounted to a sturdy bench.
I guess you live and learn ... if you ask me, I think the Hornady Pocket Reamer is the better tool (cheaper, more efficient). Only question is ... how many cases can you decrimp before the cutters get dull?
I've got thousands of rounds done on my super swage. Guess would be 5-6k ? Hell my son, 9, likes to remove the crimps with it. The only reloading he can do so far... I've never had to replace a thing. ??? Its a way better product than any hand reamer, a reamer is way too easy to remove too much brass and the case is toast.
I did exactly the opposite and purchased the Hornady reamer first. It simply would not do the job for me. Next, I tried the RCBS swagger and it did the job but was very slow. With buckets of brass to go through I needed something faster. That is when I decided to try the Dillon super swage. It was a little frustrating at first but once you get it adjusted it works great. I have done about 1500 cases so far.
I dumped that super swager years ago, Man!
Chuck the cutter in a hand drill and I can fly through brass just as fast as I could with the swager, but NO ruined primer pockets.
The nice thing is you can sell the Swager and get your money out of it.
Its a way better product than any hand reamer, a reamer is way too easy to remove too much brass and the case is toast.
In 10s of thousands of rounds, I've never ruined a single case with the reamer. (specifically the Hornady) It bottoms out in the pocket. If I'm asleep at the wheel, I can cut a pocket crooked... but it's not ruined.
I dumped that super swager years ago, Man!
I agree that the Hornady reamer can be just as fast or faster. Mine seemed like it bottomed out too soon and it was very difficult to seat primers. Even with my hand primer. If I could get the Hornady reamer to work for me I'd sell the super swager in a heart beat but it has been the only that has worked with one pass. I'm all about learning new ways.
I'm not really sure how brass can wear down a steel rod :confused:
30 cal slut
11-30-12, 10:05
I guess I'll go change my tampon before thinking about ditching the Dillon.
I must be doing something wrong.
In any event, I can't go wrong now that I have both.
I must be doing something wrong.
No. It sucks ASS! :sarcastic:
In 10s of thousands of rounds, I've never ruined a single case with the reamer. (specifically the Hornady) It bottoms out in the pocket. If I'm asleep at the wheel, I can cut a pocket crooked... but it's not ruined.
A few nights back my 9 year old popped 450-500 cases. None in the trash. Glad you like the reamer, I've just got indentured servitude.:sarcastic:
A few nights back my 9 year old popped 450-500 cases. None in the trash. Glad you like the reamer, I've just got indentured servitude.:sarcastic:
I have my monkey seating bullets as I run them off the Chargemaster. I need to train him on more.
With the Hornady tool in a drill, I've intentionally rocked cases left and right, front and back and couldn't open the pocket enough to be ruined.
I initially did a few thousand cases with the tool as I received it but I found out that when seating primers in reamed cases, there was some resistance. The primer would slide in with a clunk and I'd find a crescent moon sliver of brass in my press's primer cup. I ground a few thousandths off the tip of the reamer so it could cut a little deeper. Now it puts a generous chamfer on the primer pocket and primers slide in beautifully.
With the Hornady tool in a drill, I've intentionally rocked cases left and right, front and back and couldn't open the pocket enough to be ruined.
You're a SICK MAN!:p But that's good to know. I've never tried to go nuts with the cutter.
To give a sliver of credit to the Swagers types... you do get the benefit of additional work hardening of the case head by swaging. Don't let it go to your "head" though.
davestarbuck
11-30-12, 13:56
I have both as well. I use the SS to do bulk lots of brass, like 5k at a time. I keep the pocket reamer on my bench just in case I run into a pocket that needs a touch up.
the drill is mounted to the bench
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/ronhart/ec847520.jpg
... my son, 9, likes to remove the crimps with it. The only reloading he can do so far...
He doesn't fill your primer tubes?
My daughter has been happily filling primer tubes since she was five. I don't want her close to anything that might expose her to lead, and that means no fired brass. I might let her run the Dillon swager some day, but it'll be a long time before I let her work near a power drill (one point for Dillon).
I'm asking Santa for the Dillon "Super Swager" for X-mas. I looks sooo easy when the guys do it on YouTube! Are you guys saying that the Hornady is even better?
It takes about a second to do the primer pocket with the Horn drill
set up I use
the drill is mounted to the bench
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/ronhart/ec847520.jpg
I own the Dillon unit, but I like the looks of your set up. I am going to have to try that out.
Thanks !
I have a small dill press I got from harbr freight ,I will try that setup cool.
I have a small drill press I got from harbr freight ,I will try that setup cool.
rodinal220
12-04-12, 07:01
Had my SS600 from when they first came out,works like a champ.I dont see how the metal swaging rods could wear out in 1k rounds.Mine has to be from the late eighties and swaged untold amounts of brass.They are pricey,yes,doubled in price.
I ruined a few dozen cases with the Dillon before I figured it out. Since then I've swaged thousands of cases without a problem - and without having to change adjustments.
IMO you have to learn the feel of the Dillon. Kind of like priming on a 550B.
But I hate ANY kind of case prep so I got an 1050 and RT1200. Now the SS600 only gets pulled out for the occasional crimped 7.62.
Also - the Dillon can be fairly fast:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2EyE-HAv3I
Also - the Dillon can be fairly fast:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2EyE-HAv3I
You can do better even than that:
http://www.msgunowners.com/t16269-anyone-here-ever-used-a-dillon-super-swage-600
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=LaZHeSUqQbk
Boxerglocker
12-06-12, 21:09
Had my SS600 from when they first came out,works like a champ.I dont see how the metal swaging rods could wear out in 1k rounds.Mine has to be from the late eighties and swaged untold amounts of brass.They are pricey,yes,doubled in price.
I ruined a few dozen cases with the Dillon before I figured it out. Since then I've swaged thousands of cases without a problem - and without having to change adjustments.
IMO you have to learn the feel of the Dillon. Kind of like priming on a 550B.
But I hate ANY kind of case prep so I got an 1050 and RT1200. Now the SS600 only gets pulled out for the occasional crimped 7.62.
Also - the Dillon can be fairly fast:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2EyE-HAv3I
You can do better even than that:
http://www.msgunowners.com/t16269-anyone-here-ever-used-a-dillon-super-swage-600
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=LaZHeSUqQbk
I agree with the above posters. Have thousands on mine with zero adjustments. I started with the the rubber band mod but improved upon it with a cable and spring set-up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9VLAeFwnq4
The video doesn't do the actual speed of the process justice. I had to adjust for the camera angle. I can swage 500 cases in about 45 minutes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9VLAeFwnq4
The video doesn't do the actual speed of the process justice. I had to adjust for the camera angle. I can swage 500 cases in about 45 minutes.
Note to self: mount my SS600 so that I don't need to reach across it to pick up and put down brass... The mechanism seems ingenious, but the repetitive motion seems awkward.
Really, since I'll have tumbled, lubed, decapped, sized, and trimmed brass before swaging, I think I might let my 7-year-old daughter do this part...
Boxerglocker
12-06-12, 23:26
Note to self: mount my SS600 so that I don't need to reach across it to pick up and put down brass... The mechanism seems ingenious, but the repetitive motion seems awkward.
Really, since I'll have tumbled, lubed, decapped, sized, and trimmed brass before swaging, I think I might let my 7-year-old daughter do this part...
Like I stated earlier...it only appears that way cause I was trying to give a clear view for the camera. Normally my right hand is on the handle, left hand with a few cases in it at a times picks up, places and removes brass from the pin.
Most ingenious upgrade to the 600, I will do it to mine!
Now if I could get my hand primer to run as smooth without eating primers every ten cases, so frustrating.
How much do you want to sell your Dillon swagger to me for?
5.56 Bonded SP
10-11-17, 22:07
Swaging was just too much force for my press (RCBS + RCBS swage die ). I have my press very well mounted, but no matter how much or how little lube I used, I was having to use my body weight to swage the primer pockets. To the point it was nearly also ripping my press out of the table. I can't imagine this amount of force was good for my already headspaced brass or my press.
I now only use either a cordless drill, or my electric hornady chamfer debur tool, much easier in my opinion. My brass starts to crack before the primer pockets become too loose, so I'm not worried about reaming my primer pockets. Haven't had a primer come loose from firing.
Hopefully this isn't breaking forum rules, but I don't use my swager die so...
If anyone wants to buy my RCBS Swager die set, I'll sell it for 25$ shipped.
I've used the bench-mount RCBS with good success. Other than that, my preferred method is a drill or prep center and proper tool head. The press-mounted dies don't seem to work well for me.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
This thread is almost 5 years necro.
Yeah, my 7-year-old is turning 12 this month...
I still hope to put her to work de-crimping primer pockets, though!
Time to bump this again (rather than a new thread). This week I switched to running the cutter on all brass going forward.
My Sinclair hand primer was sticking with the priming ram up, and I had to pop it back down every time I went to load a primer. I finally decided to take it apart and clean it up, and Damn! There was a bunch of brass shavings inside. I expected to find one piece that was causing problem, but there was a rat's nest of brass shavings.
With the insane brass mix I work through, I have no idea what has or has not had the crimp removed.
anachronism
12-22-23, 19:13
There's a lot of good information here. I missed it the first couple of times around, I've been reaming, but had a lot of nickel brass that I didn't want to cut the primer pockets on so I borrowed a Dillon 600 from a friend as sort of a test drive. It wasn't seriously faster than reaming and had a learning curve to deal with, but at least it didn't make my fingers hurt holding the brass while it's being cut. I'm no closer to buying one than I was when I started.
Swaging Primer Pocket Crimps With The Dillon Super Swage
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/dillon_super_swage_003-1833452.jpg
In order to reload brass cases that have crimped primer pockets, the crimp must first be removed before a new primer can be seated. There are two basic methods used to achieve this; reaming or swaging.
With reaming, you’re removing material from the case head. With swaging, you’re simply pressing material back into its original position. Of the two methods, my personal preference is for swaging with the Dillon Super Swage 600. The Dillon Super Swage returns the primer pocket more closely to its original condition than any of the other stand-alone tools that I’ve seen used to remove the primer pocket crimp.
The pic below, with a cut-out 223 Remington case in the Super Swage, shows the swaging rod and the case positioning rod to give you an idea of just how the Super Swage works.
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/sillon_super_swage_cutaway_02-1833453.jpg
There’s no good reason for over-swaging cases. If you’re swaging correctly, here’s what your cases should look like.
The first pic below shows the case head of a factory-loaded round that has a crimped primer.
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/factory_loaded_round_01-1833461.jpg
Now, a deprimed case.
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/deprimed_case_01-1833460.jpg
The case from the above pic that has had the primer pocket swaged with the Super Swage . . .
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/super_swaged_02-1833464.jpg
And a pic with the same case reprimed . . .
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/reprimed_case_01-1833466.jpg
This last pic shows the factory-loaded round next to the reprimed case for easy comparison.
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/side_by_side_01-1833468.jpg
....
There's a lot of good information here. I missed it the first couple of times around, I've been reaming, but had a lot of nickel brass that I didn't want to cut the primer pockets on so I borrowed a Dillon 600 from a friend as sort of a test drive. It wasn't seriously faster than reaming and had a learning curve to deal with, but at least it didn't make my fingers hurt holding the brass while it's being cut. I'm no closer to buying one than I was when I started.
No need to sweat cutting the nickel stuff. No difference. The thing I found is that the brass that doesn't need any removal just doesn't give resistance on the cutter. I thought I could hurt the cause like I did with the Swager.
But I like cutting even more now that I run every piece through that process and don't sort off/guess which ones need it.
I've had my Super Swage since 1990 and haven't found anything better for processing buckets of GI 5.56 brass en masse.
I did so much brass I cracked the body, and Dillon replaced it free on warranty.
I use the In-Line Fabrication inserts to line-up cases to speed-up the process (aligns primer pockets with the swager nipple):
https://inlinefabrication.com/cdn/shop/products/9d9b2ba440afba7a963f31df98bc95b9_jyj7_wpc2_1024x1024.jpg?v=1369873522
https://inlinefabrication.com/cdn/shop/products/9be01c8fcd357ac404342f4364f5ced2_uad6_lnq3_1024x1024.jpg?v=1369873522
I've had my Super Swage since 1990 and haven't found anything better for processing buckets of GI 5.56 brass en masse.
I did so much brass I cracked the body, and Dillon replaced it free on warranty.
I use the In-Line Fabrication inserts to line-up cases to speed-up the process (aligns primer pockets with the swager nipple):
I didn't realize inline made those, thanks for posting. Going to pick up a set for 556 and 762. I have his quick change press mount and it is solid as a rock.
I've found nothing better than the Dillon Super Swage and I have tried several other solutions.
anachronism
12-23-23, 11:45
Case alignment was a major stumbling block for me with the 600. I had to be able to see the position of the case in comparison with the primer pocket.
This particular session was a bitch anyway. I bought "processed" nickel brass on GB, the seller had run the cases through a 1050 Dillon like most do, but the pockets were undersized for CCI primers so I had to give a little slack there, but the case necks were tapered, like his sizing dies were worn, and worst of all his trimmer was dull. It did trim cases, but left the outside nickel uncut, so I had to deburr inside and out. When I started to do this I found his trimmer was so dull that it mushroomed the case mouths on many cases instead of cutting them. By this point I had already modified the cases to the point that everything was going to be my baby. So I full length sized everything and ended up doing full case processing myself anyway. My dies didn't leave the necks tapered by the way, and cleaned up the shoulder profiles a mite as well. The whole point of this exercise was to clone one of the older Speer LE loads, so I bought correct Speer LE nickel cases that were only available processed, and used them with my 64 gr TBBC. So much for the romance of "clone" loads, and also for buying pre-processed cases.
I have a C4HD swager which does a fantastic job of tearing rims off cases until it is adjusted correctly. It is a good use for my Herters non-compound leverage press though.
Andy
I've had my Super Swage since 1990 and haven't found anything better for processing buckets of GI 5.56 brass en masse
There must be a "feel" thing to using the swager. I didn't keep mine long enough to figger that out.
My brain wanted there to be a setting and just go, and that wasn't the case for different brass types.
I use the dillon swagger.
There is a feel. Not a fault of the unit but because brass has variable head thickness. Not so much for same head stamps, but i use range pick ups which is every headstamp. A thicker head stamp will get too much swage if the setup is for the thinner head brass.
I setup for LC which is relatively thin head. I can tell when a thicker head is in the machine and i just don’t go all the way with the handle. Or else it will be over swaged.
I get it’s not a set snd forget machine. I used to cut the crimps out with the vld cutter from Lyman. But the primers can “feel” the micro grooves left by the cutting tool. And the catch on them. The swaged pocket is butter smooth when priming.
No free lunch.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
In a perfect world, all crimps and brass would be the same and a single setting would be fine on the swager. The only drawback for me on the Hornady cutter is positioning the brass so I can grab it quickly. I can cut them faster than I can grab and index them with my right hand.
The end result is grunt proof for me though. You can't over-cut a pocket.
CrowCommand
12-25-23, 07:43
I’ve had pretty good luck with the RCBS primer swager rig that mounts up in the rock chucker press.
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