View Full Version : Yes, another New Guy Building over Buying
Fracture_U
11-30-12, 08:09
So, here I am, on M4C wondering what kind of a mental beating I will receive after posting this. Hopefully, I have made some good, solid choices. If not, I am 110% positive y'all will tell me about it.
So, as with most people on forums in general, I have been a lurker for many months now (as well as another forum similar to this) in order to gather as much information as possible for a first AR. I think I speak for the general public when I say I was looking at the least expensive rifle I could find for justification purposes to the CFO of the family. It started with the Smith &Wesson M&P Sport. That ended very quickly when there are none in stock...anywhere! And, when they do come in stock, they are only at the GS for a short visit/rest stop. Anyways, I went on with possibly building one. I had been reading a good bit here and there and theoretically, it seemed pretty straight forward. My online window shopping and bookmark library began. At one point (about a month ago) I had a complete rifle for a mere ~500.00. Again, after more reading on forums and some info from a LEO/former Teams friend, I started to raise the bar on parts. Mil-Spec. Do I need Mil-Spec for the amount of rounds down range I will put through the weapon? Probably not. Do I want something that, when well and correctly taken care of will, save my life? Absolutely. Do I want a rifle that could take down a 200 lb. hog (or something of similar bio make up if need be)? Yes, but not sure if it will--correct placement of the projectile will make that decision for me. So I have come up with the following for any criticism (good/constructive) from self proclaimed or actual experts on this fantastic forum.
Although, it is not a complete build from the ground up, I would rather make sure I know the rifle well enough to feel comfortable fiddling around with barrel/receiver make up. With that being said, I guess this is a semi build.
Upper - Complete: Rifle gear - 4150 chrome-lined cold hammer forged barrel parked under the FSB 1:7 and tapered pins in the FSB(Made by DD), full-auto bolt carrier group and charging handle (BCG Made by DD), HP and MPI tested barrel and bolt 599.00
An email from RG Customer Service
Mega makes our lowers. We source our uppers from another Mil Spec cutter who we do not disclose per an agreement we have with them. Shipping is running a few days behind right now.
Thank you,
Nick
RIflegear.com
Lower: Mega Arms (Since MA makes the lowers for the RG uppers, I thought it was appropriate to grab one at 120.00
LPK: Daniel Defense 89.00
In my opinion, the most important parts are listed above. Below are simply there because of price and availability, and the fact I do not feel like carrying around an additional 10 lbs of rifle bling like some people so much love. All I need is lead to enter and exit the rifle in the direction I intend for it to go. The light saber and plastic-vertical sand bag can stay in the truck as well.
And then another 100.00 for a Magpul MOE stock, hand guard, pistol grip and Mil-Spec buffer, spring, etc (package deal I could not pass up)
Magpul MBUS 60.00
So, total without shipping is 970.00 1093.00 with shipping and a couple of mags
So, without breaking the bank, I get decent parts (most importantly parts that are in stock) but are not showing the manufacturers name (ie BCM) and from what I have researched, will do just fine.
Thoughts? Something missed?
Also got the RG Builders kit as well as a few MB of info from the articles and guides plastered all over the interweb.
Thanks for the input
I think that build is fine.
Just for comparison sake. A BCM upper, lower, BCG, GI CH is $999.
When folks build or buy guns, I try and get them to look at the long term sell ability of what they purchased. Components with the name BCM on the side will always sell better.
C4
I agree, a rifle with one name on it will sell better. Colt, BCM, and Daniel Defense are good examples.
I built a mutt, but using mostly good names. BCM, DD, Noveske, etc.
My build started up extravagant. I had a Boonie Packer RediMag, plans for a B.A.D. lever, a Troy rail, ambi selector. Etc, etc.
I soon realized I went too far, and that simple is really better, it's lighter and I like my rifle even more than ever.
I agree with the above post, BCM is hard to beat for value. Use the rifle and then add things from experience. Saves money that way. Lol
That's my advice for a first build.
Fracture_U
11-30-12, 08:32
I think that build is fine.
Just for comparison sake. A BCM upper, lower, BCG, GI CH is $999.
When folks build or buy guns, I try and get them to look at the long term sell ability of what they purchased. Components with the name BCM on the side will always sell better.
C4
When I was at the point of getting quality equipment, I was going that route (BCM), but as for finding things in stock or with the specs mentioned above, I could not find it until after the order was placed. By all means, I know this will not be the only build for me, but hopefully, it is a decent starting point.
As for selling... I think the term "Pack Rat" suits me in a way that will prohibit the selling of any firearm I own/will own.
Thanks for reading
Failure2Stop
11-30-12, 08:37
I do not recommend the MBUS.
A good set of metal sights is worth the minor cost increase.
Would also recommend a decent light and mount.
Is there any optics being ran on here? Like an eotech, aimpoint, etc? If not ditch the mbus and spend a little extra dough for a DD fixed rear sight.
Fracture_U
11-30-12, 08:51
I do not recommend the MBUS.
A good set of metal sights is worth the minor cost increase.
Would also recommend a decent light and mount.
Yeah, I knew that before and actually was looking at some DD and Troy BUIS's and it kinda fell through the cracks. I may just go to one of the local GS and get one of the two there as I plan on bringing it to the Gunsmith to have them check it out after completion to ensure all is well before it is fired.
Thanks for the reminder on one of the most critical parts of operation other than the internals.
Doc. Holiday
11-30-12, 09:15
Take a look at the Diamond head sights. I love mine!
I think that build is fine.
Just for comparison sake. A BCM upper, lower, BCG, GI CH is $999.
When folks build or buy guns, I try and get them to look at the long term sell ability of what they purchased. Components with the name BCM on the side will always sell better.
C4
On this note I look forward to this coming back in stock.
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=MID-750-LWC
Fracture_U
11-30-12, 09:49
On this note I look forward to this coming back in stock.
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=MID-750-LWC
As I mentioned, it was top choice (BCM) but inventory issues seemed to have swayed my final choice. You have to understand, I only get 30 days off every other month, so the month I am in, I want to make sure I have everything I need to start-build-complete-shoot/practice.
*I work 30 days on and 30 days off in Brazil.
Fracture_U
11-30-12, 09:54
I do not recommend the MBUS.
A good set of metal sights is worth the minor cost increase.
Would also recommend a decent light and mount.
As for the light... it is not something I have thought much about, but for HD, it seems like a good idea. I am sure there is a light thread on here somewhere--I will take a look and see what people like/dislike and go from there.
I'm a big fan of the carry handle sights if your are going for irons only. PSA has mil spec ones for $70 or so brand new. And people sell others on here for less than that.
Fracture_U
12-01-12, 16:03
I'm a big fan of the carry handle sights if your are going for irons only. PSA has mil spec ones for $70 or so brand new. And people sell others on here for less than that.
I am not too much of a fan of the handle. I do like the sight that LMT?puts out based off of it though.
F2S,
I agree with the comment concerning the argument against the MBUS but would
like to hear your reason for not recommending them. Thanks,
-Jax
When I first put a light on my patrol rifle, my budget was a consideration. I purchased a light mount from Brownells that installed on the upper handguard. The mount can be installed at the 10 o'clock or 2 o'clock position and it accommodated the light I used on my Glock 22. The light stayed firmly attached when I trained with it, but came off the rifle easily when I wanted to put it on my pistol. It was a viable option until I had more funds available.
How does your rifle shoot?
When I first put a light on my patrol rifle, my budget was a consideration. I purchased a light mount from Brownells that installed on the upper handguard. The mount can be installed at the 10 o'clock or 2 o'clock position and it accommodated the light I used on my Glock 22. The light stayed firmly attached when I trained with it, but came off the rifle easily when I wanted to put it on my pistol. It was a viable option until I had more funds available.
How does your rifle shoot?
Did this install on a carbine handguard or did you have a rail?
Did this install on a carbine handguard or did you have a rail?
It is a GG&G mount and it installed easily on a carbine handguard. I had to remove the heat shield from the upper handguard and drill two holes to install the mount. It was an easy installation. I use an Insight M-3 light. As luck would have it the brightest part of the flashlight beam co-witnesses with my iron sights at 7 yards.
For my carbine, I chose a Mossie Tactics Midnight Mount and a Surefire X300 weapon light. The flashlight wasn't cheap but it's survived being mounted on my rifle for over a thousand rounds and it's very bright for being so small and light
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/AR%20Carbine/CarbineSurfire001.jpg
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/AR%20Carbine/CarbineSurefire002.jpg
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/AR%20Carbine/DSC_0012-1.jpg
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/AR%20Carbine/DSC_0253.jpg
If interested, you can learn more in this thread-
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=95251
The Surefire X300 also fits pistols
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/Handguns/DSC_00072.jpg
For my carbine, I chose a Mossie Tactics Midnight Mount and a Surefire X300 weapon light. The flashlight wasn't cheap but it's survived being mounted on my rifle for over a thousand rounds and it's very bright for being so small and light
Does the X300 slip of and on with any kind of ease? Making it a possible solution to switch between a carbine and pistol if somebody wanting a quality light was on a budget?
F2S,
I agree with the comment concerning the argument against the MBUS but would
like to hear your reason for not recommending them. Thanks,
-Jax
My main reasoning is the OP isn't mentioning the use of an optic. If he's just running iron sights a fixed DD rear sight would be a much more solid option. Now, if an optic is planned to be added, an actual rear mbus would make sense.
Fracture_U
12-02-12, 07:49
Does the X300 slip of and on with any kind of ease? Making it a possible solution to switch between a carbine and pistol if somebody wanting a quality light was on a budget?
My main reasoning is the OP isn't mentioning the use of an optic. If he's just running iron sights a fixed DD rear sight would be a much more solid option. Now, if an optic is planned to be added, an actual rear mbus would make sense.
Optics are in the future of this rifle, but as this is my first AR, I do not want to learn the rifle with optics from the get go. I want to be very comfortable with iron sights (or in my case at the moment, polymer sights).
I am not sure what I was thinking when I bought the MBUS - most likely it had to do with $$ and the fact that I see so many people with them, they must be decent B/U's.
As mentioned before, I like the functions of the LMT, but would probably prefer flip down sights. So, whats the general consensus on flip up/down rear sights? I will also search and see what is out there on the forum. I am sure there is a poll or a few topics posted already. I would like to try a couple out to see what fits me best.
Fracture_U
12-02-12, 07:52
For my carbine, I chose a Mossie Tactics Midnight Mount and a Surefire X300 weapon light. The flashlight wasn't cheap but it's survived being mounted on my rifle for over a thousand rounds and it's very bright for being so small and light
If interested, you can learn more in this thread-
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=95251
The Surefire X300 also fits pistols
Thank you for the info on the X300. I have not seen a mount like that before, did it take some getting used to?
Thank you for the info on the X300. I have not seen a mount like that before, did it take some getting used to?
Yes, about 3 seconds. You can see in the photo of the carbine being shot, the hand is close to the light. Just move the hand up and flip the switch. It can be done from either side and it's very intuitive. With this setup there are no wires to catch and get pulled out and no extra electrical connects to fail. With the light mounted at the 12 o'clock position, the shadow from the muzzle is below where it's least likely to interfere with visibility. It adds no width to the rifle and isn't as likely to catch something as a side mount. The rail adapter of the X300 is adjustable so it clamps the mount firmly but is easily removed by pressing the release. The Mossie Mount can be had as either universal type or picatinney. The X300 comes with both styles of rail adapters. I suggest buying which ever style Mossie Mount matches the rail of your handgun and configuring the X300 to match.
The mount is designed to give clearance for mounting a suppressor. As I don't have a suppressor, I made a modification to the FSB and the Mossie Midnight Mount so the mount would sit much closer to the barrel. This made the light less noticeable through the sights and the setup a bit more compact. There is a little more shadow but it doesn't affect anything.
While the FSB does get hot, the mount and light stay cool. In actual use, FSB temperature won't be a problem because the light will be switched on before shots are fired.
The only real downside I find with this setup is that powder residue collects on the lens. It's easy to wipe off, but I found a Storm Queen scope cover with a clear lens that fits the light perfectly. Residue still builds up on the cover but not on the light lens. The cover also protects the light lens from scratches.
Light burn time is only 4 hours with the lithium ion batteries. The trade off is the unit is very bright, compact and surprisingly light. Even though the assembly mounts near the muzzle, it makes only a slight change in how the carbine handles.
The setup is light, rugged, easy to use and well made. While not cheap by any stretch, it works very well and I don't foresee needing to change or up grade the light or mount any time soon. It fits my philosophy of keeping it simple and buying only once
The_Hammer_Man
12-02-12, 13:52
I don't know about the "general consensus" about buis sights here on the boards but, I really, really like this particular rear sight. I have one on both my A2 FSB equipped weapons and strongly recommend it to my friends and customers.
http://armsmounts.com/default.asp?mode=products&sub=sights&id=[hsh]40L-P
As a second choice my recommendation in a folding rear sight would be A.R.M.S #40 polymer buis with steel apertures.
With buis the tastes of the individual shooter are definitely a major consideration and most new shooters go through several different types till they find one they like.
Good luck on your journey :)
MistWolf,
That is a nice light mount.
A TLR-1 would work, and be about half the price, and they come on sale pretty frequently from places like midwayUSA and others.
I think that build is fine.
Just for comparison sake. A BCM upper, lower, BCG, GI CH is $999.
When folks build or buy guns, I try and get them to look at the long term sell ability of what they purchased. Components with the name BCM on the side will always sell better.
C4You will be getting a rifle that will last and last and last.
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