View Full Version : SCAR H vs 7.62 AR
I was in the shop the other day looking at the SCAR H. My only experience with the SCAR was I put a few mags through one at a range day where vendors allowed testing at a SWAT competition when the SCAR was new, so no real experience.
I don't know much about them compared to say getting an AR in 7.62. It appears the SCAR H has now been around long enough to show itself to be a viable 7.62 platform from what I gather.
AR platform in 7.62 seems iffy from what I read, but it's not an area of knowledge for me.
What's the general pros/cons of the 7.62 AR vs the SCAR H? Link to read? AR in 7.62 recommended brands usual suspects?
The SCAR H is a tad over 3k at a shop I go. Good price? Bad? I doubt I get one now, but interested in getting learned up for if/when I do.
Thanx
polymorpheous
12-01-12, 08:23
Are magazines readily available for them yet?
Are magazines readily available for them yet?
No idea. They had some, but that does not mean much.
Are magazines readily available for them yet?
The magazine situation is improving for the SCAR. I have been able to get a few more in the last few months, and now there are even other companies coming online producing SCAR mags. Though, having said that the market is not exactly flooded with them and they are a bit more than I would prefer.
edgecrusher
12-01-12, 09:09
Hey Will, I own and enjoy shooting two 7.62 ar's. Some benefits are that they use many small parts from the ar15 rifles, the SR-25 mags are plentiful, be it DPMS, Magpul pmags, and even the c product mags. There are many manufacturers jumping into the large platform ar's, and parts and accessories are becoming more readily available… (as much as possible with the current supplies for all fun things being low!)
The Scar H, is also recognized as a great gun, with it's biggest drawback being proprietary mags. There is a company making a lower that accepts the SR-25 mags solving the problem, but another investment is required. Here's the link..
http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=3217
If you have some more questions on the large platform ar's, feel free to pm me, I do have some good first hand info with at least six of the manufacturer's
Hey Will, I own and enjoy shooting two 7.62 ar's. Some benefits are that they use many small parts from the ar15 rifles, the SR-25 mags are plentiful, be it DPMS, Magpul pmags, and even the c product mags. There are many manufacturers jumping into the large platform ar's, and parts and accessories are becoming more readily available… (as much as possible with the current supplies for all fun things being low!)
The Scar H, is also recognized as a great gun, with it's biggest drawback being proprietary mags. There is a company making a lower that accepts the SR-25 mags solving the problem, but another investment is required. Here's the link..
http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=3217
If you have some more questions on the large platform ar's, feel free to pm me, I do have some good first hand info with at least six of the manufacturer's
Great info, especially on that lower, thanx! ;)
I own both SCAR 17 and DPMS Panther SASS though believe it or not I just have not had the opportunity to shoot them yet. I prefer the SCAR 17. Magazine availability has been an issue with the SCAR but is much better now and can be found at a reasonable price by shopping around (though not as cheap as the AR platform). IMO $3K is too much to be paying now unless you just want to buy at your local GS. I just checked GB and there are plenty there. The low price around $2500 and that is a buy now price. You will save on taxes and even with shipping and local FFL transfer fee you will save over $400. I have bought plenty of guns on GB and never had an issue. Here is a link to the SCAR 17 threads on FN forum and you can find plenty of additional reviews/material.
http://fnforum.net/forums/fn-scar-17s/
One additional point is a FN Forum member (SGT Stryker) is also going to be producing a new lower made from metal. In addition lots of details on alternate receivers, modifying FAL mags to work in a SCAR, etc.
Failure2Stop
12-01-12, 11:32
I have experience with all of the known 7.62 semi autos, and while my sigline shows a clear bias, the only 7.62 gun I will pay for is an SR25. The scar has some positive attributes, but the negatives are not worth the cost savings to me.
Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.
polymorpheous
12-01-12, 11:50
I have experience with all of the known 7.62 semi autos, and while my sigline shows a clear bias, the only 7.62 gun I will pay for is an SR25. The scar has some positive attributes, but the negatives are not worth the cost savings to me.
Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.
The SR-25 has been my dream gun since I started shooting.
One day.
Ferris2son
12-01-12, 13:10
I own a SCAR 17 and have been very happy with it. It is lighter than it's competition from LMT, LaRue and Knights. I doubt it is as accurate as the LaRue and I know it's not as accurate as some of the SR-25s. It's a battle carbine.
Mine eats anything and has never failed. I shoot suppressed a lot and greatly appreciate the cleaner running piston system.
I don't own any other 308 autoloaders so the magazine issue is not a big deal. I pick-up a couple everytime a batch hits the market. If I had other SR25 mag pattern rifles, I would want magazine continuity.
There are two new lowers (not the serialized part of the rifle) for the SCAR that use SR25 pattern mags. They run about $300. One has been released by Handl and can be backordered thru Ranier. Early reviews are mixed with reports of bolt catch and mag release issues, but Handl CS seems to be taking care of these. It's a tricky situation for Handl because the end user is swapping the parts from the factory lower to the Handl product, so there's no QC on the final function. The other lower from Stryker Enterprises is not out yet. It boasts more features like QD sling mounts and comes with "tricky parts" already installed.
I paid $2550 for mine two years ago. Lucky. They run about $2650 now. There are cheaper alternatives but none in the class that I've mentioned here. I do think it's the best buy of the four I mentioned.
Also, the black SCARs are more accurate.:sarcastic:
Night Sinner
12-01-12, 13:40
The Scar was the winning entry for the new 7.62 battle rifle - I have had the opportunity to shoot a few - My range partners ran out and bought them after they came out - I have wanted a 7.62 semi auto for a good long time - I had my sites set on the SCAR until I discovered that stocking magazines was an exercise in futility - And I do not care for how the rifle bolt operates - I looked around - Talked to everyone that had knowledge that I could find - Read everything available and finally decided to go with the LaRue OBR with the 18" barrel - It runs Magpul Magazines - I own a Wilson M4 and run only Pmags and they have never failed - Not to mention I can buy 20 round Pmags for the LaRue for $18.00 each - It should be delivered in early March - Will post photos as soon as it arrives
I have experience with all of the known 7.62 semi autos, and while my sigline shows a clear bias, the only 7.62 gun I will pay for is an SR25. The scar has some positive attributes, but the negatives are not worth the cost savings to me.
Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.
So I should keep this OBR?
Hmm....need to get some more SCAR time to decide.:blink:
Now this is only my experience with a total of one rifle, but the particular Scar 17 that my friend owns has destroyed 2 burris eliminator 3 scopes. I know Burris is not high end and I understand that it's more the scope than the rifle but it is something to consider.
Alaskapopo
12-01-12, 16:13
I love my Scar 17. Its been reliable and that is not something I can say for previous .308 AR's I have owned. Its light weight, relatively accurate. You do need to put solid optics on it however it will destory an Eocrap in no time flat.
Pat
FlyingHunter
12-01-12, 17:23
I acquired a SCAR 17 earlier this year for around $2550. I thought long and hard about the departure from my familiar M4's in 5.56 and 6.8spc.
Now that I've probably run north of 600 rounds thru the SCAR 17, my thoughts are:
PRO's:
lighter than most comparable 308's
dead nuts reliable, not one issue with ammo of all types
accurate enough, I average around 1.5" @ 100yds
CON's:
expensive
changing your "manual of arms" vs M4 w/charging handle
factory trigger will likely need help
I carry mine alot on my farm, so the light weight is what has sealed the deal for me. My factory trigger was nicely cleaned up for $80 in 2 days, by Bill Springfield. The magazines are significantly easier to find now vs 1 yr ago. I guess my best expression of satisfaction...I bought a SCAR 16 and rigged it the same. While I thoroughly enjoy my M4's, the SCAR 17 with Leupold VX-6 has become my "go to" gun for my needs.
Look at what your needs are. If the budget is tight, you can get an M4 pattern 308 much less costly, conversely, if the budget is open, you can probably get a more accurate, but heavier, long range platform e.g. LaRue or Knights.
Good Luck with your search Will.
MadAngler1
12-01-12, 17:35
What is your intended use? If you want a battle rifle 400 yards in, the SCAR-17 wins hands down over any AR-10 variant. It's very light weight, and you can run it suppressed easily thanks to its adjustable gas block. It field strips easily and is very easy to clean. I run a Vortex flash hider on mine, and the recoil is not bad at all for a .308 rifle. The downside is that it's not a precision rig, and will never approach the accuracy potential of something like an SR-25 or Larue OBR due to the SCAR's larger reciprocating mass (piston style gas system as opposed to a gas tube). The SCAR H, as Alaskanpopo pointed out, also has a recoil impulse that tends to chew up crappy optics and shake loose scope mounts. I would only put something like an Aimpoint, Nightforce or S&B on it, held in place by a high quality mount.
I love my SCAR Heavy, and I wouldn't trade it in for any other 16" battle rifle. If I need something like a DMR or sniper rig, I think a LaRue OBR or Knight's SR-25 is the way to go. Either system is going to cost you a crap ton of money by the time you deck it out with an optic and accessories.
Not a lot of experience with the SCAR-H, but I did get to run a mag through one not too long ago and fondle it at length. Fingerbanged the new Colt .308 right after that. My impression was that the SCAR shot great, I liked the manual of arms (with one exception), and it certainly wins in the weight and low recoil departments. What I HATED was the feel of the safety selector. I far preferred the normal feel of the Colt .308 rifle, as it was more like any generic AR. Perhaps there are aftermarket solutions to make it better, but that was the only thing that made me not really sad that I can't afford one right now. YMMV. ;)
What I HATED was the feel of the safety selector
The magpul selectors are a night and day difference. 1000% better accessibility and are like $13-16. Easy fix.
The SCAR 17 isn't quite OBR accurate but it's close to a MOA gun.
Suwannee Tim
12-01-12, 19:08
Compared to an LMT the SCAR is lighter. The SCAR trigger sux and a good trigger will cost $400. The trigger improves with use and is generally manageable if not sweet. Magazines are a problem but do you really need 20 magazines? Buy a couple now and wait until availability improves to buy a few more. That said it is hard as hell to beat a quality AR. Whether or not the SCAR accomplishes this will vary with the user and the application. Unless you are going to carry the thing around where the weight is a significant issue then the nod goes to the SCAR. The safety selector to me is a non-issue.
The magpul selectors are a night and day difference. 1000% better accessibility and are like $13-16. Easy fix.
The SCAR 17 isn't quite OBR accurate but it's close to a MOA gun.
Aw, dang. And I was just getting used to my sour grapes attitude about it. Now you had to go and post that and make me want a SCAR again! :D
I would buy a high quality M1A over any other 308 semi at the present time. By high quality I do not mean Springfield Armory.
Suwannee Tim
12-01-12, 19:24
I would buy a high quality M1A over any other 308 semi at the present time. By high quality I do not mean Springfield Armory.
I would absolutely not buy an M1A over a SCAR or AR and I have two M1As and an M1 rifle. At least not for my first battle rifle. For a collectable, for nostalgia, for the hell of it, sure. For a first 7.62, no way. They are obsolete and ill suited to optics
I own the LMT MWS and I am very happy with it. Ergo like an M4. Takes pmags for $20 and are everywhere. Trigger is OK, but I put in an SSA.
Here is my take on accuracy. I have a 16CL Barrel. It will shoot 1 inch groups with match kings, and 1.5 inch groups with many different types of ammo. It's always compared to the OBR, which is very impressive. But the apples to apples is when you compare the LMT SS barrels to the OBR. Now the price and performance match.
I would like to get a 20 inch SS some day.
PB
Magic_Salad0892
12-01-12, 19:33
I'd personally shell out the cash for the SR-25 ECC.
But then again, I'm biased, because I love KAC.
F2S when did you start working for KAC? (Congrats on the new job, if it was recent.)
QuickStrike
12-01-12, 21:24
I would buy a high quality M1A over any other 308 semi at the present time. By high quality I do not mean Springfield Armory.
I strongly disagree and i have a nice M14s.
I would absolutely not buy an M1A over a SCAR or AR and I have two M1As and an M1 rifle. At least not for my first battle rifle. For a collectable, for nostalgia, for the hell of it, sure. For a first 7.62, no way. They are obsolete and ill suited to optics
This. Now I love my SCAR, but I wish it was a SR-25.
Alaskapopo
12-01-12, 23:12
I would buy a high quality M1A over any other 308 semi at the present time. By high quality I do not mean Springfield Armory.
I love the way M1A's look and the history behind them but after owning 2 I am just not that enamored with them in real life. Accuracy is so so, optics mounting is problematic. They are slower to reload. The safety sucks. Yea great idea to put the safety inside the trigger guard. To each his own I guess. But to me picking that in this day and age is like picking a Smith M&P model 10 .38 special as a duty gun.
Pat
Magic_Salad0892
12-01-12, 23:31
I love the way M1A's look and the history behind them but after owning 2 I am just not that enamored with them in real life. Accuracy is so so, optics mounting is problematic. They are slower to reload. The safety sucks. Yea great idea to put the safety inside the trigger guard. To each his own I guess. But to me picking that in this day and age is like picking a Smith M&P model 10 .38 special as a duty gun.
Pat
The difference being that the Smith M10 is a good pistol.
The M1A sucks no matter what you do to it.
It's more like using an SVT-40 instead of an M4.
LtNovakUSA
12-02-12, 09:20
I've been running both the SCAR17 and SR25 EMC for close to a year now. If you have the scratch to get the SR25 go for it, it's been nothing short of outstanding in the 3k rounds I've put through it. Accurate as hell, reliable and just overall a finely made gun. I like it better than my SCAR. That said the SCAR is also a good gun. It's just as reliable, but not as accurate. The thin barrel profile makes the groups open up a little bit as it heats up, whereas the SR25 is pretty consistent after extended firing. SCAR mags seem to come and go, luckily I was able to snag 20 at the Ft Benning PX, but the SR25 mags are everywhere. Note on the PMAGs, they tend not to like rounds loaded to max overall length. Long rounds such as M118LR tend to barely fit, and can hang up when feeding. I had a few nosedive into the front wall of the Mag, causing a malfunction (the only malfunction I've ever had with the SR25). All in all they're both great guns, but IMO, the SR25 just has it over the SCAR17.
I own both a SCAR 16 and 17. I have thousands of rounds through both. ZERO issues with either. I would buy again. I purchased both from dealers off of Gunbroker. Hassle free transactions and saved money to boot.
I've been running both the SCAR17 and SR25 EMC for close to a year now. If you have the scratch to get the SR25 go for it, it's been nothing short of outstanding in the 3k rounds I've put through it. Accurate as hell, reliable and just overall a finely made gun. I like it better than my SCAR. That said the SCAR is also a good gun. It's just as reliable, but not as accurate. The thin barrel profile makes the groups open up a little bit as it heats up, whereas the SR25 is pretty consistent after extended firing. SCAR mags seem to come and go, luckily I was able to snag 20 at the Ft Benning PX, but the SR25 mags are everywhere. Note on the PMAGs, they tend not to like rounds loaded to max overall length. Long rounds such as M118LR tend to barely fit, and can hang up when feeding. I had a few nosedive into the front wall of the Mag, causing a malfunction (the only malfunction I've ever had with the SR25). All in all they're both great guns, but IMO, the SR25 just has it over the SCAR17.
I also have both however my SR-25 will only function properly with black hills red box ammo, FGMM and hornady just short stroke non stop. SCAR on the other hand would probably eat wolf if I wanted it to. Both are good guns, just don't like the ammo pickiness.
SCAR mags seem to come and go, luckily I was able to snag 20 at the Ft Benning PX, but the SR25 mags are everywhere. Note on the PMAGs, they tend not to like rounds loaded to max overall length. Long rounds such as M118LR tend to barely fit, and can hang up when feeding. I had a few nosedive into the front wall of the Mag, causing a malfunction (the only malfunction I've ever had with the SR25).
I keep hearing the argument that Pmag compatibility is a great parameter to consider when selecting a 7.62. Yet at the same time I keep hearing about issues with 7.62 Pmags and how they should really only be used as training mags. So what does that leave you with for the "non-training" mags? KAC, close to $100/piece mags, or LaRue I guess. Now I've never had a problem shelling out the cash for good proprietary mags for my guns (if I had a KAC, I'd buy KAC mags for it). Why spend the cash on $2K+ rifles and skimp on the most important piece of component hardware for it in terms of functional reliability? I have a SCAR and have no issue spending $40 a piece on mags. But guess what, people are modifying their SCAR lowers to accept, of all things, Pmags! Insanity.
ETA, One more example I found under the "training" header written by L. Vickers regarding Pmags in his last Battle Rifle class:
"The KAC SR25 carbines in the class not only were accurate but reliable - the only two stoppages out of 4000-5000 rds shot thru 10 different guns was an over insertion of a PMAG and a failure to feed from a PMAG ( both mag related IMO) ;I was extremely impressed. KAC has really put serious effort into making that carbine accurate and reliable. Trust me just a few years ago the results would have been different . From what I saw if you are looking for a 7.62 AR style carbine your first look should be at a KAC SR25 setup - I was truly blown away
Also the PMAG's as I was told before the class by several guys are fine for range use but for anything serious use the current KAC mags - they have really worked those out also"
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=117181
It would be cool if Magpul made GEN M3 .308 mags to address any issues with the current 20LR. :-)
Magic_Salad0892
12-02-12, 13:52
It would be cool if Magpul made GEN M3 .308 mags to address any issues with the current 20LR. :-)
That would be cool...
...wait... I see what you did there...
MountainRaven
12-02-12, 13:53
It would be cool if Magpul made GEN M3 .308 mags to address any issues with the current 20LR. :-)
Would it be cool if they had them out in three months?
;)
It would be cool if they offered 25rd 7.62 mags
KG_mauserman
12-02-12, 14:34
I always had a problem with the feedlips spreading if I left the PmagLR's loaded for more than a day or two. They would still work but they wouldn't drop out of the gun (LMT MWS).
Judging the SCAR against AR10 type rifles you first need to establish what you want to do with the rifle.
If this is just a recreational gun then get what ever floats your boat. Most of these type of threads (not saying that yours is) are from people who want others to make them feel good about what they want.
If your looking for help in logically deciding what it is that you need then consider these three main criteria Weight, Reliability, and Accuracy as well as these two lesser criteria support, and modularity.
Accuracy while important is usually an over rated criteria in my opinion. As long as a rifle will hold an honest 2 MOA that is more than enough for just about any practical shooting you will do outside of being a sniper or bench rest competitor. If little groups is your goal then the SCAR 17s isn't gonna be your bag. If you get one expect 1.5 MOA type accuracy with the right ammo. If thats not enough then drive on to the AR10.
Weight is where the SCAR is hard to beat. Its an 8 lbs. gun from the factory minus optic. If you plan to carry your .308 rifle for extended periods the SCAR 17s is your friend. I have an LMT MWS that I tried to make into a run and gun type carbine, and while it can be done I was really trying to pound a square peg into a round hole.
It's hard to quantify reliability. We want it to be cut and dried but it isn't. I can tell you that MY SCAR 17s has aprox 3000 round through it with zero problems. Everything from 110 gr TAP to 175 gr FGMM including 500 rounds of brownbear and just about every type of surplus under the sun has fed and fired just fine. Again mine is a sample of one. Read around online and make your own conclusions but you will find quite a few reports like mine about the SCAR 17s. Look for patterns. A lot of people in the know don't care for the SCAR but I have never heard one of their complaints been that it wasn't reliable.
As for suport parts are becoming more and more availible. Enough SCARs are out in the wild now that the market is taking notice and starting to support the system.
The modularity of the SCAR is just now begining to be tapped into by the aftermarket. A lot of good things I believe are coming the SCAR's way.
The SCAR 17s is a great rifle but it might not be the rifle for your needs. Figure out what it is you really need first.
I'll just echo what's already been stated here:
It depends on your needs. I have a 20" AR10 set up to shoot sub-MOA. My 16" SCAR is purposed as a general use carbine. In finger-banging all sorts of 7.62 rifles, I found that the SCAR balanced the best, and the folding stock was a nice feature to boot.
I have not tried the PredatAR, but my experience is that AR10s tended to be heavier than the SCAR17. Although, the nature of the bigger 7.62 barrel will result in a heavier front end, regardless or which platform you choose.
Magazines are not a problem. I purchased a SCAR17 in early November ( the day of the election), and I already have 11 magazines, ranging from $34-59.999.
It would be cool if Magpul made GEN M3 .308 mags to address any issues with the current 20LR. :-)
Haha such a tease man, such a tease.
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